From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 01:24:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31803 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:24:57 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA31799 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:24:57 +0100 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id BAA27402; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:24:56 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:24:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200003190024.BAA27402@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: so sorry Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 01:28:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31860 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:28:54 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA31856 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:28:54 +0100 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id BAA27430; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:28:53 +0100 (MET) From: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id BAA04712 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:28:53 +0100 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:28:53 +0100 Message-Id: <200003190028.BAA04712@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk test again -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 01:30:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31899 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:30:19 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA31895 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:30:19 +0100 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id BAA27440; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:30:17 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:30:17 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200003190030.BAA27440@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Hmm, it seems to work Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The archive seems to work. Good.  Erik -- "God. Root. What is difference?" -- Pitr in "User Friendly" by Illiad -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 11:46:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00141 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:46:04 +0100 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00137 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:46:02 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:42:41 +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Hmm, it seems to work Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [argh, dat moest dus naar de list] >The archive seems to work. Good. You think so ? JDB -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 11:52:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00175 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:52:41 +0100 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00171 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:52:39 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:49:17 +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: This should do the trick Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk s/archive2pl/archive2.pl/ JD 'duh' B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 19 11:53:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00195 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:53:55 +0100 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00190 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:53:54 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:50:33 +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: This should do the trick Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 11:49 +0100 19-03-2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >s/archive2pl/archive2.pl/ ... and don't forget newaliases JD 'double duh' B. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 20 20:58:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04174 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:58:38 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04165; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:58:24 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:57:22 +0100 To: pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, linux-arm@vger.rutgers.edu From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, We've released all the CAD files required for building the LART under an Open Hardware-ish license. All files can be found at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl . The LART is a small yet powerful embedded computer capable of running Linux, built around an Intel SA-1100 StrongARM processor. Its performance is around 250 MIPS while consuming less than 1 Watt of power. In a standard configuration it holds 32MB DRAM and 4MB Flash ROM, which is sufficient for a Linux kernel and a sizeable ramdisk image. No computer is an island. We have designed I/O boards for LART, offering audio I/O, IDE (can you say MP3man ?), Ethernet, PS2, IrDA, USB, video out, telco and touchscreen interface. More boards are in various stages of development, including video in, GPS and inertial navigation. We intend to release all these PCB designs under the same open license. On this site you can also get BLOB, our BootLoader Object; and a recipe for building a Linux kernel and a crosscompiler toolchain. There's also a majordomo list discussing the ins and outs of SA-based embedded computing in general and LARTish stuff in specific; the address is lart@lart.tudelft.nl, see http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/ how to get there from here. Note: we don't sell the stuff, we just try to give back to the community. You could see us as a fabless PCB design group ;-) If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. Sincerely, Jan-Derk Bakker. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 20 23:28:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05522 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:28:54 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05518 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:28:54 +0100 Received: from dgf.uchile.cl (dgf.uchile.cl [146.83.8.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRQ000MSRS1DB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:28:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (castellatus [146.83.8.190]) by dgf.uchile.cl (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA24955 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:21:10 -0400 (CST) Received: from dgf.uchile.cl (dial-tnt1-88.chilesat.net [200.31.53.88]) by castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28500 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:21:06 -0400 (CST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:37:53 -0500 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Subject: Re: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38D6B651.3E09399B@dgf.uchile.cl> Organization: Departamento de =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geof=EDsica?=, Universidad de Chile MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > Hi all, > > We've released all the CAD files required for building the LART under an > Open Hardware-ish license. All files can be found at > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl . > (...) > There's also a majordomo list discussing the ins and outs of SA-based > embedded computing in general and LARTish stuff in specific; the address is > lart@lart.tudelft.nl, see http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/ how to get there > from here. Wonderful! It's nice to see how well this project has evolved. Congratulations! -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"And all this science I don't understand pbleyer | It's just my job five days a week @dgf.uchile.cl | A rocket man, a rocket man..." - Elton John from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!= '-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce( lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 00:02:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05872 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:02:29 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05868 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:02:28 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:00:49 +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >>No computer is an island. We have designed I/O boards for LART, offering >>audio I/O, IDE (can you say MP3man ?), Ethernet, PS2, IrDA, USB, video out, >>telco and touchscreen interface. More boards are in various stages of > >Tell me more about he telco interface.. The telco interface is based on the Philips UCB1200 and an external SLIC (analog thingy to interface to the telephone line; I'm looking at the Siemens DAA2000 Optical SLIC). The UCB1200 and an appropriate kernel driver should be able to offer the same functionality as a WinModem in a pc (ie basically a sound port that happens to talk to a phone line). I intend to do two things with the telco interface: - wait for the linmodem code to mature, and do a port so that the telco interface can be used as a fax/data modem. - do some voice/DTMF stuff, so I can use a LART as as a call logger or an answering machine with caller-dependant message. If you want more detals just ask. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 00:31:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06042 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:31:42 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06038 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:31:41 +0100 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRQ00284UOROF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:31:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27424 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:24:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12206 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:24:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:26:19 -0500 From: T Sullivan Subject: New LART Website !!! To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38D6B39B.A660A150@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Congratulations Guys !! It's great to see that the new LART website is on the air... Go forth and prosper... Best Regards Terry ------------------------ Urbus Networks Ottawa, Ontario K1S 2V4 613.237.0193 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 10:45:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08734 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:45:48 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08729; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:45:42 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01JN9X1W8WPK9FMOCF@ITS.TUDelft.NL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:44:54 +0100 To: "Richard A. Smith" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc to lart@lart.tudelft.nl] >>I intend to do two things with the telco interface: >>- wait for the linmodem code to mature, and do a port so that the telco >>interface can be used as a fax/data modem. >>- do some voice/DTMF stuff, so I can use a LART as as a call logger or an >>answering machine with caller-dependant message. >> >>If you want more detals just ask. > >Well actually I am more interested in the design and how it works for >you. Have you heard of Astrisk? It's a project to develope a PBX >running on linux. Right now it only supports 2 or 3 pieces of >hardware and none of them in my price range fit my needs. So I have >been looking at building my own but I am still undecided on what type >of hardware to use. > >Since this would be the first piece of telco stuff I have ever done I >am trying to get as much info as I can. Where can I find the data >sheet for the UCB1200 and and the SLIC use used? http://www.semiconductors.com/pip/UCB1200_2 http://www.infineon.com/us/opto/daa/content.html >What I want to make is a system with about 4 or 5 incomming line >interfaces and about 10 extensions. You'll need some extra codecs then. I believe http://www.national.com had special phone line interface chips; it's been a while since I investigated building PABXen so that may have changed. Nowadays it may be easier and cheaper to just hook up a couple of SLICs to some cheap audio codecs. >I haven't checked the status of linmodems in a while do they have a >alpha driver for this chipset? linmodems are pretty much chipset independent; the majority of the code is required to do the telephony signal processing stuff. You might want to subscribe to the LART list; I'm going to design a seperate PCB for the DAA2000; these may be useful for you even if you don't use the LART computing element. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 11:03:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08861 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:03:42 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08856; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:03:41 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38D73833.4F48D9FD@compulan.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:02:46 +0100 To: Michael Renzmann From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: PCMCIA and video Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc to lart-list] >Great job! I just looked at the site. You wrote, that pcmcia-Interfaces >will be available in the future. Does this mean "erm, well, maybe >somethimes in the next two years" or is it more like "in the not so far >future, maybe summer this year"? The latter. PCMCIA on StrongARM is quite simple (a matter of some buffers and a PLD to control the lot). We want to experiment with existing wireless links such as WaveLan. I intended to have the PCB ready for my last board run, but time was too short. Expect rev 1 around May. > And how about that video-in-board? Similar story. The experimental platform that LART is a part of needs video in/out (and compression and transmission and...). I haven't yet decided whether I'll use the Philips or AD video in chips yet, though. Video should be proto around June - July. JDB -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 15:08:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10086 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:08:44 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10082 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:08:44 +0100 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.ar51.net [208.225.80.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRR00FQWZAI7X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:08:43 +0100 (MET) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-186.ar51.net [208.225.80.186]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27577; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:07:51 -0500 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:07:57 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:07:55 -0500 From: Jeff Sutherland Subject: SA-1111 Audio Recording questions. To: "ARM on Linux Mailing List (E-mail)" , "SA1100 Linux mailing list (E-mail)" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We have been experiencing problems with the SA1111 audio recording functions. Has anyone else seen this, or better yet, figured out a workaround? Using latest Assabet with Niponset board, I have been able to isolate the problem to the SADRCS register in the SAC section of the SA-1111 chip. The SA-1111 SADRSA (receive buffer A pointer) SADRCA (receive buffer A count) SADRSB(receive buffer B pointer) and SADRCB(receive buffer B count) registers are first properly initialized. I know that these are correct because when I get DONEA flag the A buffer is filled in with the data I would expect. Also, when I get the DONEB flag the data in the B buffer is filled in with the data I would expect. The problem is that the ping pong nature for the receiver is either broken or I'm missing something. I am listing six test sets with my results. I would like you to give me your feed back on possible work arounds. The following are six of the several tests I have run on the SADRCS register (Note: the SADTCS register operates as I would expect and I do have playback working, via DMA & interrupts from the memory on the Assabet board). TEST 1 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 11 to SADRCS - Set STARTA flag Read 9 from SADRCS - Read DONEA flag set Write 9 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEA flag Read 1 from SADRCS - Dma enabled. Write 11 to SADRCS - Set STARTA flag Read 81 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEA, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. TEST 2 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 51 to SADRCS - Set STARTA/STARTB flags Read 89 from SADRCS - Read DONEA flag set, BIU set Write 89 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEA flag Read 81 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEB, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. TEST 3 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 41 to SADRCS - Set STARTB flag Read 21 from SADRCS - Read DONEB flag set Write 21 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEB flag Read 1 from SADRCS - Dma enabled. Write 11 to SADRCS - Set STARTA flag Read 81 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEA, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. TEST 4 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 51 to SADRCS - Set STARTA/STARTB flags Read 89 from SADRCS - Read DONEA flag set, BIU set Write C9 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEA flag, set the STARTB flag Read C1 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEB, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. TEST 5 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 51 to SADRCS - Set STARTA/STARTB flags Read 89 from SADRCS - Read DONEA flag set, BIU set> Write 99 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEA flag, set STARTA Read 91 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEA, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. TEST 6 ------ Write 0 to SADRCS - disable receive DMA controller Write 1 to SADRCS - Enable DMA (note: only doing this in polled mode for these tests) Write 41 to SADRCS - Set STARTB flag Read 21 from SADRCS - Read DONEB flag set Write 21 to SADRCS - Clear the DONEB flag Read 1 from SADRCS - Dma enabled. Write 41 to SADRCS - Set STARTB flag Read 81 from SADRCS - BIU Set, No DONEB, Dead at this point can set either STARTA/B and never get any more DONE flags. It appears that the transition between buffers is broken, if the BIU bit gets set we're done and no further activity happens on that record channel. Thanks, Wayne G. Peters Accelent Systems Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 15:22:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10260 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:29 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10255; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:19 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:21:53 +0100 To: Jeff Sutherland From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: SA-1111 Audio Recording questions. Cc: "ARM on Linux Mailing List (E-mail)" , "SA1100 Linux mailing list (E-mail)" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 15:07 +0100 21-03-2000, Jeff Sutherland wrote: >We have been experiencing problems with the SA1111 audio recording >functions. Has anyone else seen this, or better yet, figured out a >workaround? > Using latest Assabet with Niponset board, I have been able to >isolate the problem to the SADRCS register in the SAC section of the SA-1111 >chip. There was a thread on the newsgroup comp.sys.arm on this subject quite recently; you may want to check http://www.deja.com/ for it. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 16:41:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10582 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:41:40 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10578 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:41:39 +0100 Received: from mena.arkansasusa.com (ns4.arkansasusa.com [12.14.232.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS00KZQ3LEP8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:41:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from BITWORKS.COM ([12.14.238.107]) by mena.arkansasusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57470U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:43:06 -0600 Received: from richard.bitworks.com [192.168.0.6] by BITWORKS.COM [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:57:45 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:55:45 -0600 From: "Richard A. Smith" Subject: Re: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Reply-to: "Richard A. Smith" Message-id: <0FRS00KZR3LEP8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:44:54 +0100, J.D. Bakker wrote: >[cc to lart@lart.tudelft.nl] Ok.. since you insist. *grin* > >http://www.semiconductors.com/pip/UCB1200_2 Hmmm don't think this is what I need. Is lart going to use the touchscreen interface? We do a lot with touchscreens here. >http://www.infineon.com/us/opto/daa/content.html This is more along the lines of what I need. Although I would like to find somthing like this with the audio codec built in. >You'll need some extra codecs then. I believe http://www.national.com had >special phone line interface chips; it's been a while since I investigated Thanks I will check out national. >building PABXen so that may have changed. Nowadays it may be easier and >cheaper to just hook up a couple of SLICs to some cheap audio codecs. Thats an interesting idea. >You might want to subscribe to the LART list; I'm going to design a >seperate PCB for the DAA2000; these may be useful for you even if you don't >use the LART computing element. I may do that.. Yeesh my mailing list load is starting to get large. Do you do most of the design by youself or do you collaborate with the list? Perhaps your upcomming PCB with DAA200 could be structured such that adding additional DAAs would be easy? What kind of price are we talking for a base LART? -- Richard A. Smith Bitworks, Inc. rsmith@bitworks.com 501.846.5777 Sr. Design Engineer http://www.bitworks.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 18:08:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10864 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:08:37 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10860 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:08:37 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS0071G7LZCO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:08:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15535; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:01:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:01:30 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: PCMCIA and video In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Michael Renzmann , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > The latter. PCMCIA on StrongARM is quite simple (a matter of some buffers > and a PLD to control the lot). We want to experiment with existing wireless > links such as WaveLan. I intended to have the PCB ready for my last board > run, but time was too short. Expect rev 1 around May. we use wavelans around here too, but i thought the driver was a compilible wrapper to a binary only lib that actually runs the card: is there a version for the SA ? and congrats and getting the site up...we are currently feeling the joy of component acquisition after having gotten quotes from stuffers and pcb makers. weeeeeeeee. rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 19:49:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11100 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:49:50 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11096 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:49:49 +0100 Received: from ramone.wwonline.com (ramone.wwonline.com [209.82.60.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS00B7ACAYAA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:49:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from wwonline.com (dave@wrench.wwonline.com [209.82.62.59]) by ramone.wwonline.com (8.8.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id NAA23404 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:43:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:41:30 -0500 From: David Emmerson Subject: LART hardware distribution version 0.95 (March 20, 2000) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38D7C25A.1D534CFB@wwonline.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Jan-Derk, You mention in the LARTdist-README that http://www.4pcb.com can provide a quote for this motherboard. Do you know if anyone has sent the Gerber files to them? Has 4pcb already manufactured prototypes of this board? If so, has there been any contact with them regarding the possibility of 'batching' board orders - i.e. collect orders until there are 10 or 15, and then manufacturing a batch of them and sending them out? Thanks, Dave -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 20:45:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11290 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:45:20 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11285; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:45:17 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0FRS00KZR3LEP8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:42:00 +0100 To: "Richard A. Smith" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Announce: LART hardware distribution released. Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >>You might want to subscribe to the LART list; I'm going to design a >>seperate PCB for the DAA2000; these may be useful for you even if you don't >>use the LART computing element. > >I may do that.. Yeesh my mailing list load is starting to get large. I don't expect the lart-list to get very high volume -- not the 200-300 mails that linux-kernel produces daily :-p >Do you do most of the design by youself or do you collaborate with >the list? Hey, the list is less than 24 hours old ;-). I intend to cooperate with the list (releasing plans early and often) and collaborating with everyone who has the time and interest. >Perhaps your upcomming PCB with DAA200 could be structured such that >adding additional DAAs would be easy? My current plan is to make the DAA2000 board as small as possible, allowing the user to use more in tandem (or stacked or whatever). >What kind of price are we talking for a base LART? Depends on volume. My prototypes were around US$800, a larger run may bring that down to around $200. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 21:07:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11360 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:07:33 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11355; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:07:30 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:04:44 +0100 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PCMCIA and video Cc: Michael Renzmann , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:01 +0100 21-03-2000, rob wrote: >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> The latter. PCMCIA on StrongARM is quite simple (a matter of some buffers >> and a PLD to control the lot). We want to experiment with existing wireless >> links such as WaveLan. I intended to have the PCB ready for my last board >> run, but time was too short. Expect rev 1 around May. > > we use wavelans around here too, but i thought the driver was a >compilible wrapper to a binary only lib that actually runs the card: is >there a version for the SA ? Are you sure ? In my current tree (2.2.12) drivers/net/wavelan.c looks pretty standalone source to me. Can anyone who actually uses these cards confirm/deny any of this ? > and congrats and getting the site up...we are currently feeling >the joy of component acquisition after having gotten quotes from stuffers >and pcb makers. weeeeeeeee. Cool ;-) Doesn't GeorgiaTech have in-house stuffers though ? Oh BTW: anyone who is building the LART (or contemplatign to do so) will probably find that the power supply parts (MAX1626/1627) are in pretty short supply. Try asking a Maxim rep for samples, they are pretty quick with those (here at least). It's pretty odd that you'll get free samples in one week, while you have to wait a *long* time if you want to pay for them. JDB. [who is contemplating doing a rev 4 with other power supply parts. Suggestions anyone ?] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 21:18:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11386 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:18:18 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11381; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:17:56 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38D7C25A.1D534CFB@wwonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:16:16 +0100 To: David Emmerson , rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART hardware distribution version 0.95 (March 20, 2000) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:41 +0100 21-03-2000, David Emmerson wrote: >You mention in the LARTdist-README that http://www.4pcb.com can provide >a quote for this motherboard. Do you know if anyone has sent the Gerber >files to them? Not me; I don't know of anyone else. Rob, where are you planning to do your PCBs? > Has 4pcb already manufactured prototypes of this board? >If so, has there been any contact with them regarding the possibility of >'batching' board orders - i.e. collect orders until there are 10 or 15, >and then manufacturing a batch of them and sending them out? Sounds like a good idea. Alternatively, there may be a way for us to sell blank PCBs in small quantities; I'm looking into that. I plan to do a large run in a month or so (when I finally get all components together), and I could probably run an extra 10-20 blanks The best plan is probably to ask 4pcb as well, as the cost of shipping small quantities of PCBs from us (Europe) to you (America) may very well negate the advantage of riding along on a large batch. Let's see which path is least expensive. JDB. -- "There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering." It starts with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of the non-gaseous byproducts." (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 21:59:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11533 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:59:02 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11529 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:59:01 +0100 Received: from ee.iitm.ernet.in ([202.141.26.181]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS00G2DIA8OU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:59:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (ee96162@localhost) by ee.iitm.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05741; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:23:11 +0530 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:23:11 +0530 (IST) From: Lavu Sridhar Subject: ARM processors To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I am developing a board using StrongARM processors. We want the board to have the following features: 32MByte DRAM, 4MByte ROM, TV Video / Display Port, Ethernet Port, Serial Ports: RS232 port, two PS/2 ports. What microprocessor based on ARM core processot is best suited for this application? Though the StrongARM Micoroprocessor supports most of the features it does not support Ethernet directly. Similarly Samsung's ARM Microcontroller NetARM does not support Display. We are undergarduate students and have no prior experience with any of the ARM processors, so we would be grateful if you could help us in this matter and advise us about experiences with variuos ARM derivatives. -Lavu Sridhar -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 21 23:59:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA12028 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:59:43 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA12024 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:59:42 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS00LA2NV152@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:59:42 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17081; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:50:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: PCMCIA and video In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Michael Renzmann , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Are you sure ? In my current tree (2.2.12) drivers/net/wavelan.c looks > pretty standalone source to me. > Can anyone who actually uses these cards confirm/deny any of this ? oh i guess the question is *which* wavelan. there are apparently several. we use the 11mbit lucent 802.11 "silver" cards. the module for it is called wavelan2_cs or something (it isn't in kernels). apparently several different cards were called wavelan. which one do you plan to use ? > Cool ;-) Doesn't GeorgiaTech have in-house stuffers though ? you'd think so.... just out of curiosity, is anyone from over there planning to attend ISWC (i think that's the name of it). > Oh BTW: anyone who is building the LART (or contemplatign to do so) will > probably find that the power supply parts (MAX1626/1627) are in pretty > short supply. Try asking a Maxim rep for samples, they are pretty quick > with those (here at least). It's pretty odd that you'll get free samples in > one week, while you have to wait a *long* time if you want to pay for them. > [who is contemplating doing a rev 4 with other power supply parts. > Suggestions anyone ?] yeah on their site, the lead time is quite high. max parts always seemed to be the standard for power supply stuff. what are the requirements for the LART in terms of current and voltage. what about using some of the more generic max parts that are adjustable (609 i think)? in jameco, they have a 78S40 switching regulator (1.5amp 1.25-40v) no clue what it looks like (i'm using a 386 whose harddrive i had to beat on repeatedly to get to boot as a terminal). we figured that if we got desperate enough, we would leave the parts unstuffed, and at least for testing rig something up (and we'll use lots of duct tape). rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 00:17:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12137 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:17:46 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12133 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:17:45 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRS00LLQOPJF2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:17:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17128; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:01:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:01:50 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: LART hardware distribution version 0.95 (March 20, 2000) In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: David Emmerson , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk SOn Tue, 21 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 19:41 +0100 21-03-2000, David Emmerson wrote: > >You mention in the LARTdist-README that http://www.4pcb.com can provide > >a quote for this motherboard. Do you know if anyone has sent the Gerber > >files to them? > > Not me; I don't know of anyone else. Rob, where are you planning to do your > PCBs? we are going through H&L electronics, which is local to us. some of the other folks at tech use this firm to do boards. the quote we got ended up being pretty trivial (i don't have it in front of me): (all prices USD) 455 NRE and between 60 and 80 per board (maybe less) dependeing on quantity (this was for 3-6). (of course they haven't seen the gerber so that may change, but then again i'm guessing because i don't have the fax in front of me, so ...). once we get one of these guys working we might be able to start churning them out a bit more for people out there (or perhaps in collaboration with a company). can't say for sure yet, we are still in the middle of things, but if there is demand possibly maybe. rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 03:04:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12740 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 03:04:32 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12736 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 03:04:32 +0100 Received: from server1.siscom.net (server1.siscom.net [209.251.2.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FRS00278WFJUP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 03:04:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 45034 invoked from network); Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:02:58 +0000 Received: from ppp144.c5300-1.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) ([209.251.9.144]) (envelope-sender ) by server1.siscom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:02:58 +0000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:01:13 -0800 From: Brian Kraack Subject: LART hardware manufacturing ... To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: David Emmerson , rob , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: bkraack@siscom.net Message-id: <38D85399.90EE377C@siscom.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I and a friend were also thinking of building these (basically cause I really want one) or possibly doing our own from scratch ... we know some guys who are distributors for a lot of the various parts, and rough estimate of cost for parts/building is about 250-350 at qty 100. (very rough estimate). we were thinking of doing up a 'large' batch of em (100 or so to start) if there was interest in doing so - that's about the number you have to do to get the costs down per unit. That's a pretty big investment though (for me anyway), and we don't want to get stuck with a ton of extras ... A lot of you are talking about putting them together yourselves - is that something you want to do for fun, or would you be willing to shell out for these if we made them. how many would you all want; costwise, what's fair, what's too high, etc. My original idea was to just get all the pieces together to sell as a kit (PCB included), but I've been told that it requires a very competent solderer to work this small (I'm a software weenie), so now I've graduated to building finished units and selling them with bundled software (and perhaps even add on modules down the road), etc. -- if you are interested, some feedback would be appreciated /Brian J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 19:41 +0100 21-03-2000, David Emmerson wrote: > >You mention in the LARTdist-README that http://www.4pcb.com can provide > >a quote for this motherboard. Do you know if anyone has sent the Gerber > >files to them? > > Not me; I don't know of anyone else. Rob, where are you planning to do your > PCBs? > > > Has 4pcb already manufactured prototypes of this board? > >If so, has there been any contact with them regarding the possibility of > >'batching' board orders - i.e. collect orders until there are 10 or 15, > >and then manufacturing a batch of them and sending them out? > > Sounds like a good idea. Alternatively, there may be a way for us to sell > blank PCBs in small quantities; I'm looking into that. I plan to do a large > run in a month or so (when I finally get all components together), and I > could probably run an extra 10-20 blanks > > The best plan is probably to ask 4pcb as well, as the cost of shipping > small quantities of PCBs from us (Europe) to you (America) may very well > negate the advantage of riding along on a large batch. Let's see which path > is least expensive. > > JDB. > > -- > "There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering." It starts > with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops > utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal > pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of > the non-gaseous byproducts." > > (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e) > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 05:14:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13081 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:14:32 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13077 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:14:31 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRT004IB2G0JE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:14:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19096; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:07:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:07:23 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: LART hardware mfr && qestions In-reply-to: <38D85399.90EE377C@siscom.net> To: Brian Kraack Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , David Emmerson , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk J.D. what fpga are you using ? i'm designing a board for a display driver around a altera part, and was looking for any designs that were out there. On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Brian Kraack wrote: > That's a pretty big investment though (for me anyway), and we don't want > to get stuck with a ton of extras ... can you say wearable cluster computing? > A lot of you are talking about putting them > together yourselves - is that something you want to do for fun, > or would you be > willing to shell out for these if we made them. how many would you all want; > costwise, what's fair, what's too high, etc. i've got a reasonable budget, but i'll likely have them done locally and as quickly as possible. rob -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 10:04:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14106 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:04:35 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14101; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:04:33 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:59:16 +0100 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PCMCIA and video Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >oh i guess the question is *which* wavelan. Yesss....that may well be an issue. > there are apparently several. >we use the 11mbit lucent 802.11 "silver" cards. the module for it is >called wavelan2_cs or something (it isn't in kernels). apparently several >different cards were called wavelan. which one do you plan to use ? I'm currently looking at the (old) 2Mbit version, as that is what we have lying around. >> Cool ;-) Doesn't GeorgiaTech have in-house stuffers though ? > > you'd think so.... > just out of curiosity, is anyone from over there planning to >attend ISWC (i think that's the name of it). ISWC ? Wotzat ? > what are the requirements for >the LART in terms of current and voltage. The LART has two power supply rails: one at 3v3 and one at either 2v0 or 1v5 (depending on which SA-1100 you use). Running on maximum (full speed decoding of H.263 compressed video), neither draws more than 200-250mA. > what about using some of the >more generic max parts that are adjustable (609 i think)? in jameco, >they have a 78S40 switching regulator (1.5amp 1.25-40v) no clue what >it looks like (i'm using a 386 whose harddrive i had to beat on repeatedly >to get to boot as a terminal). we figured that if we got desperate >enough, we would leave the parts unstuffed, and at least for testing rig >something up That's possible; if you don't mount any of the PSU parts, you could feed in the required voltages at one of the inductor pins (the large coils on the edge of the PCBs, see l'art gallery. Make sure that the supplies are *very* stable; half a Volt of undershoot and your board hangs; half a Volt the other way and your chips are fried :-( > (and we'll use lots of duct tape). ;) You know the old saying: "Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together". JDB. -- "A satisfied customer ? We ought to have him stuffed !" -- Basil Fawlty -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 10:13:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14149 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:13:59 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14144; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:13:56 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:06:03 +0100 To: Nicolas Pitre From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Ramdisks (was Re: Kernel Module) Cc: Arm Linux Mailing List , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >(I really need to create an updated ramdisk image)... We have some; including all-ELF ones with busybox, and one that is set up to do NFS over PPP using one of the serial links. Will put them up on the LART pages shortly. JD 'another notch on the TODO list' B. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 10:19:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14183 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:19:34 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14179 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:19:34 +0100 Received: from royal2.eicnet.de (royal2.eicnet.de [62.144.196.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRT00D1XGKL5F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:19:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from iserv.compu.lan (root@ppp-36.regio.net [192.135.7.164]) by royal2.eicnet.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30577; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:09:58 +0100 Received: from compulan.de ([192.168.1.210]) by iserv.compu.lan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03906; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:06:41 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:13:38 +0100 From: Michael Renzmann Subject: Re: PCMCIA and video To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: rob , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38D88EC2.F41814CE@compulan.de> Organization: CompuLAN Europe GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322h (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: de,en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi. > > we use wavelans around here too, but i thought the driver was > > a compilible wrapper to a binary only lib that actually runs the > > card: is there a version for the SA ? > Are you sure ? In my current tree (2.2.12) drivers/net/wavelan.c looks > pretty standalone source to me. > Can anyone who actually uses these cards confirm/deny any of this ? There are two drivers available for WaveLAN cards. One comes directly from Lucent and is distributed as "binary only" loadable module for x86-based PCs. The other one is a completly open sourced GPL-driver. This driver is part of the PCMCIA package. The driver found in the kernel could possibly be a third driver (I´m not sure about that), but IIRC this one does not support the up-to-date 11MBit/s versions of WaveLAN cards. They just work with the 8MBit cards that are not delivered anymore. I hope this could clear things up a bit. BTW: A nice page on any kind of wireless lan cards and Linux is this one: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/ Bye, Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 17:56:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17045 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:56:35 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17041 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:56:34 +0100 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.ar51.net [208.225.80.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU0088D1Q9FK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:56:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-155.ar51.net [208.225.80.155]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07198 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:53:19 -0500 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:53:27 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:53:20 -0500 From: Jeff Sutherland Subject: Technical: kernel startup internals... To: "LART Mailing List (E-mail)" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've been inching forward steadily with this SA1110 port, but I've got some wierdness following decompression of the kernel on startup. Seems the startup code in head.S wants to jump into the kernel at c0008000, which was the entry point coming from BLOB. I haven't yet found any documents on the web that go into the technicalities of bringing up a kernel. I thought there was a 'Porting-HOWTO' somewhere but I can't seem to locate it these days. I might even need some linker script or makefile tweaks (??) as _load_addr and _start (in head.S) are assigned at link time. This is starting to get ugly. I got bit by a SA1110 config register bug yesterday that took the better part of a day to chase down. Regards, //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 18:51:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17314 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:51:38 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17310 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:51:37 +0100 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU00ACO49ZNZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:51:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:46:11 -0500 (EST) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Technical: kernel startup internals... In-reply-to: To: Jeff Sutherland Cc: "LART Mailing List (E-mail)" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Jeff Sutherland wrote: > I've been inching forward steadily with this SA1110 port, but I've got some > wierdness following decompression of the kernel on startup. Seems the > startup code in head.S wants to jump into the kernel at c0008000, which was > the entry point coming from BLOB. I haven't yet found any documents on the > web that go into the technicalities of bringing up a kernel. I thought > there was a 'Porting-HOWTO' somewhere but I can't seem to locate it these > days. There are none. And if there were some they would probably be obsolete anyway. Unfortunately for those dark corners the only reliable doc is the source. The compressed kernel stub and the real kernel itself can be run at the same address. The code from linux/arch/arm/compressed/head.S takes care of getting itself out of the way and copying the uncompressed kernel at the right place. > I might even need some linker script or makefile tweaks (??) as > _load_addr and _start (in head.S) are assigned at link time. This is > starting to get ugly. You shouldn't have to mess with that. If you want special setup like uncompressing the kernel directly out of flash then only some variables need to be changed in linux/arch/arm/compressed/Makefile. > I got bit by a SA1110 config register bug yesterday > that took the better part of a day to chase down. Which one? Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 22 22:07:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18126 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:07:09 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18122 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:07:09 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU00GP6DBVUS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:07:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26030; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:59:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:59:49 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: ISWC In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > just out of curiosity, is anyone from over there planning to > >attend ISWC (i think that's the name of it). > > ISWC ? Wotzat ? the international symposium on wearable computers which will be held in atlanta this time around see http://iswc.gatech.edu/ for information. > > what are the requirements for > >the LART in terms of current and voltage. > > The LART has two power supply rails: one at 3v3 and one at either 2v0 or > 1v5 (depending on which SA-1100 you use). Running on maximum (full speed > decoding of H.263 compressed video), neither draws more than 200-250mA. > ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 03:54:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19657 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:54:14 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19653 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:54:13 +0100 Received: from iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br (iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br [143.107.235.38]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU003MITEA2K@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:54:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br (really [143.107.235.244]) by iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br via in.smtpd with esmtp (ident celso using rfc1413) id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:52:26 -0300 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:52:00 -0300 From: celso Subject: Problems to make Blob To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38D986D0.C5276384@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br> Organization: usp MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Congratulation for your work . It's amazing and greatful !!!! I've had problems to make Blob bootloader : $./configure loading cache ./config.cache checking for a BSD compatible install... (cached) /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes checking for working aclocal... found checking for working autoconf... found checking for working automake... found checking for working autoheader... found checking for working makeinfo... found checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking for gcc... (cached) gcc checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... yes checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) is a cross-compiler... no checking whether we are using GNU C... (cached) yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes checking for arm-linux-objcopy... (cached) arm-linux-objcopy checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether ln -s works... (cached) yes checking for inline... (cached) inline checking for C flags to get more warnings... -Wall creating ./config.status creating Makefile creating include/Makefile creating src/Makefile creating tools/Makefile creating include/config.h include/config.h is unchanged Configuration ------------------------------------------------------------------------ C compiler gcc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! see that line .Is it ok ?????gcc???? C flags -O2 -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC Linker flags -static -nostdlib Objcopy tool arm-linux-objcopy Objcopy flags -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S Run-time debug information no I tryed to make and : $make Making all in tools make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/tools' make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/tools' Making all in include make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/include' make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/include' Making all in src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/src' gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include -I../include -O2 -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c start.S /tmp/cc174h8i.s: Assembler messages: /tmp/cc174h8i.s:56: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b reset' /tmp/cc174h8i.s:57: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b undefined_instruction' /tmp/cc174h8i.s:58: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b software_interrupt' /tmp/cc174h8i.s:59: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b abort_prefetch' and more and more errors ... what did happen ??? **** arm-linux-"tools" run fine ... -- Celso Providelo cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br Linux user #166906-96936 LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors Department of Electrical Engineering University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos) by marilia.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br Linux machine #73597 ___ __________ =| A |= __ __ |O o _____ | =| V |= | || | |o *|/\/\/|| =| R |===|=%||%=|=|o *|_____|| =|___|= |__||__| |__________| -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 04:06:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19717 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:06:52 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19713 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:06:52 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU00467TZF03@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:06:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27796; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:59:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:59:37 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: Problems to make Blob In-reply-to: <38D986D0.C5276384@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br> To: celso Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk are you cross compiling ? it looks like you are using the wrong version of 'gas', (ie the one for i386). but that's just a guess. rob On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, celso wrote: > Configuration > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > C compiler gcc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! see that line .Is it > ok ?????gcc???? > C flags -O2 -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -nostdinc > -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC > Linker flags -static -nostdlib > Objcopy tool arm-linux-objcopy > Objcopy flags -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S > Run-time debug information no > > I tryed to make and : > > $make > Making all in tools > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/tools' > make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'. > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/tools' > Making all in include > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/include' > make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'. > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/include' > Making all in src > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/celso/Lart/src/blob-1.0.5/src' > gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include -I../include -O2 > -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 > -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c start.S > /tmp/cc174h8i.s: Assembler messages: > /tmp/cc174h8i.s:56: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b reset' > /tmp/cc174h8i.s:57: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b > undefined_instruction' > /tmp/cc174h8i.s:58: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b > software_interrupt' > /tmp/cc174h8i.s:59: Error: no such 386 instruction: `b abort_prefetch' > > and more and more errors ... what did happen ??? > > **** arm-linux-"tools" run fine ... > -- > Celso Providelo > cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br > Linux user #166906-96936 > LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors > Department of Electrical Engineering > University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos) > by marilia.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br > Linux machine #73597 > ___ __________ > =| A |= __ __ |O o _____ | > =| V |= | || | |o *|/\/\/|| > =| R |===|=%||%=|=|o *|_____|| > =|___|= |__||__| |__________| > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 04:53:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19845 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:53:13 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19841 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:53:13 +0100 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU004M3W4M03@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:53:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from eskimo.com (jim@oak-ts1-h1-48-186.ispmodems.net [209.162.48.186]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05312 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:50:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:56:24 -0800 From: Jim Richardson Subject: (no subject) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38D995E8.F3D07180@eskimo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk subscribe lart -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 05:26:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19934 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:26:07 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19930 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:26:05 +0100 Received: from peterpan.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br (peterpan.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br [143.107.235.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU0056EXN91A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:26:05 +0100 (MET) Received: from sel.eesc.sc.usp.br (debonzi@JULY [143.107.235.246]) by peterpan.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06596 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:20:42 -0300 (EST) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:25:19 +0000 From: Daniel Henrique Debonzi Subject: Path To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38D9727F.EC228920@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: pt-BR, en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, How can I apply the patch-2.2.13-rmk2 patch in a kernel-source-2.2.13? Thanks!! -- Daniel Henrique Debonzi Linux user number 166903 Department of Electrical Engineering University of Sao Paulo (USP) Microprocessor Laboratory (LAMI-SEL) ___ __________ =| A |= __ __ |O o _____ | =| V |= | || | |o *|/\/\/|| =| R |===|=%||%=|=|o *|_____|| =|===|= |__||__| |__________| -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 05:41:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19992 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:41:38 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19988 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:41:38 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRU005CRYDD1A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:41:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28761; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:34:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:34:25 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: Path In-reply-to: <38D9727F.EC228920@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br> To: Daniel Henrique Debonzi Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Daniel Henrique Debonzi wrote: > Hi, > How can I apply the patch-2.2.13-rmk2 patch in a kernel-source-2.2.13? > Thanks!! > -- the usual procedure is something like patch -p0 < patch-2.2.13-rmk2 you have to do it with the appropriate -p[some number usually one or zero], and in the right directory. (i've never applied that patch so i dunno which ones though). patch is pretty smart about stuff and will complain if it doesn't find what it's looking for. probably you need to be in the linux directory . do 'man patch' for more info. rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 09:17:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20797 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:17:56 +0100 Received: from pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl (pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.158.204]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20792 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:17:56 +0100 Received: from localhost (pouwelse@localhost) by pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02356; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:17:47 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:17:47 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Pouwelse X-Sender: pouwelse@pgsultra To: rob cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: ISWC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > > just out of curiosity, is anyone from over there planning to > > ISWC ? Wotzat ? > the international symposium on wearable computers > which will be held in atlanta this time around > see http://iswc.gatech.edu/ for information. The paper deadline for ISWC is set at 16 May. I'm a researcher working with the LART at Delft university and I'll try to get an ISWC paper out on our LART voltage and frequency scaling implementation/measurements, together with an analysis of wireless link trade-offs. I attended the last two ISWC's and I think people would appreciate the LART stuff... > > > what are the requirements for > > >the LART in terms of current and voltage. > > The LART has two power supply rails: one at 3v3 and one at either 2v0 or > > 1v5 (depending on which SA-1100 you use). Running on maximum (full speed > > decoding of H.263 compressed video), neither draws more than 200-250mA. I've measured the power consumption of the LART while running the SA1100 at 0.8 V (59MHz) - 1.7 V(251MHz) and decoding H.263 compressed video streams. A paper with *all* the details will be linked to the LART pages in one month. This paper is already finished, but awaits program committee approval. Johan Pouwelse -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 09:51:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20923 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:51:46 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20919 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:51:45 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRV00DCB9WQA8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:51:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA30222; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:42:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:42:56 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: ISWC In-reply-to: To: Johan Pouwelse Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, thad@cc.gatech.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk very cool! rob On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Johan Pouwelse wrote: > > > > just out of curiosity, is anyone from over there planning to > > > ISWC ? Wotzat ? > > the international symposium on wearable computers > > which will be held in atlanta this time around > > see http://iswc.gatech.edu/ for information. > > The paper deadline for ISWC is set at 16 May. I'm a researcher working > with the LART at Delft university and I'll try to get an ISWC paper out on > our LART voltage and frequency scaling implementation/measurements, > together with an analysis of wireless link trade-offs. I attended the last > two ISWC's and I think people would appreciate the LART stuff... > > > > > what are the requirements for > > > >the LART in terms of current and voltage. > > > The LART has two power supply rails: one at 3v3 and one at either 2v0 or > > > 1v5 (depending on which SA-1100 you use). Running on maximum (full speed > > > decoding of H.263 compressed video), neither draws more than 200-250mA. > > I've measured the power consumption of the LART while running the SA1100 > at 0.8 V (59MHz) - 1.7 V(251MHz) and decoding H.263 compressed video > streams. A paper with *all* the details will be linked to the LART pages > in one month. This paper is already finished, but awaits program committee > approval. > > > Johan Pouwelse > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 09:55:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20957 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:55:50 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20951 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:55:49 +0100 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id JAA28210; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:55:44 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:55:44 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200003230855.JAA28210@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Problems to make Blob In-Reply-To: <38D986D0.C5276384@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:52:00 -0300, celso wrote: > Congratulation for your work . It's amazing and greatful !!!! > I've had problems to make Blob bootloader : > > > $./configure > loading cache ./config.cache > checking for a BSD compatible install... (cached) /usr/bin/install -c > checking whether build environment is sane... yes > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes > checking for working aclocal... found > checking for working autoconf... found > checking for working automake... found > checking for working autoheader... found > checking for working makeinfo... found > checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... > no > checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu You're using an i686 host... > checking for gcc... (cached) gcc > checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... yes > checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) is a cross-compiler... no .. so you should be using a cross compiler. From the README file in the BLOB distribution: - setenv CC /path/to/cross/gcc - setenv OBJCOPY /path/to/cross/objcopy - Run "./configure --with-linux-prefix=/path/to/armlinux/source arm-lart-linux-gnu" - Run "make" Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 11:04:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21245 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:04:02 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21241 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:04:01 +0100 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f116.hotmail.com [216.32.181.116]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FRV00IASDAPWO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:04:01 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 25892 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:03:50 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.37 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:03:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:50 +0200 (EET) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: LAN and WLAN To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000323100350.25891.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.37] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We are planning to start to develop a general purpose ARM based board with LAN and WLAN support. Also we see a need for the hardware based compressing. We know we are not alone with this subject and this LART project sounds like it's very close to it. We've understood that some of you is developing LAN support for the LART. Is it so and what is the status? And how about wireless networking (based on pcmcia/pc-card)? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 12:21:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21507 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:03 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21503 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:21:02 +0100 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA29190; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:20:56 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:20:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200003231120.MAA29190@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LAN and WLAN In-Reply-To: <20000323100350.25891.qmail@hotmail.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:50 +0200 (EET), Mika Lauronen wrote: > We are planning to start to develop a general purpose ARM based board > with LAN and WLAN support. Also we see a need for the hardware based > compressing. > > We know we are not alone with this subject and this LART project sounds like > it's very close to it. > > We've understood that some of you is developing LAN support for the > LART. Is it so and what is the status? The first two prototypes of the Kitchen Sink Board arrived yesterday. JDB did some first tests (as in: "no, it's not a 0 Ohm resistor"). I can't say when we start writing the first driver, but it will be Real Soon Now [tm]. The single ethernet PCB isn't yet assembled, so the ethernet driver will come a bit later. > And how about wireless networking (based on pcmcia/pc-card)? We have some old (2 Mbit) wavelan pcmcia cards, and we have plans to port the driver to LART (but we have so many plans ;-). Erik -- unix soit qui mal y pense -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 12:33:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21556 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:33:28 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21552 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:33:27 +0100 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRV0022YHFOG2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:33:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA32455; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:19:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:19:03 -0500 (EST) From: rob Subject: Re: LAN and WLAN In-reply-to: <200003231120.MAA29190@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > We have some old (2 Mbit) wavelan pcmcia cards, and we have plans to port > the driver to LART (but we have so many plans ;-). i know the feeling...all we *really* need is a machine to slow down time around us, then we could get some real work done. :D ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 17:51:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22619 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:51:19 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22614; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:51:13 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:50:32 +0100 To: James Bredijk From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: ARM vs PPC Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] > I read on the LART pages that you were leaning towards the PPC >until you "saw the light". Was this a technical, or perhaps, a >spiritual light? ;-) After reading about the LART project (I was >impressed) I thought you would be able to provide an intelligent >opinion (or comparison) of the two. > > Why did you choose the ARM over the PPC? Was it the available tools >or dev boards? Was it the available Linux distributions? Was it the >acronym? As a Mac owner (and ex-developer) I originally leaned toward the PPC. I knew the instruction set, the architecture and I felt confident that the tweaks that were necessary to get Linux running were well within my reach. I chose the IBM PPC403GCX embedded processor, read the CPU manual till I knew it by heart. I even found a supplier. Then I found the SA-1100. It is almost the same price as the IBM part with *much* higher integration. The raw speed is over two times that of the embedded PPC, at a smaller power consumption. After a fashion, I even came to like ARM assembly better than PPC assembly. In retrospect the processing power was the most important decision changer. Even the new PPC405GP has not much more oomph, at almost twice the power consumption. And it comes only in BGA, which is a bitch for prototyping and small runs. Note that I still believe that embedded PPCs have their place in the Grand Scheme Of Things. If you need PCI, on-chip Ethernet or other esoteric stuff (I'm always amazed with the Motorola devices), PPC may be the way to go. On the other hand, if you're building a wearable platform with high MIPS/Watt and still enough power for, say, speech recognition, the StrongARM is the chip for you. Does that answer your question ? JDB. [who'll admit to being a sucker for a good acronym ;-)] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 20:26:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23276 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:26:16 +0100 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23271; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:26:12 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:26:05 +0100 To: "Modi, Al" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Building Blob Cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to Erik Mouw, the blob maintainer. Erik, maybe we should document some of this stuff, like in a PORTING file ?] >I down loaded the 'blob-1.0.5.tar.gz' from your web site. Exploding the >file 'blob-1.0.5.tar.gz' provided me with source,include,build file etc.. >and readme file. Read me file under section Building Blob, specifies the >prerequisites needed to build the blob. I wanted to build the blob on >Linux system with cross compiler tools for arm, program the blob image in >to a flash on the 'Intel Sa-1100 brutus' board and let Brutus board boot >using blob. >Q.1 Can this be done ? Cross-compiling it should work; this is how we use blob. I don't know whether it will work on Brutus (but I don't have any reason to believe it won't). >Q.2 Do you have any document on LART memory map layout ? LART has four 8MB memory blocks, divided over DRAM banks 0 and 1: 0xC0000000-0xC07FFFFF 0xC1000000-0xC17FFFFF 0xC8000000-0xC87FFFFF 0xC9000000-0xC97FFFFF The current blob makes some assumptions: - only banks 0 and 1 are active (fixable in src/start.S) - the area from 0xC0000000 contains RAM at least up to 0xC0400000. To do actual work; this block must at least extend to (0xC0400000 + sizeof(ramdisk)). - the kernel and the ramdisk live in Chip Select 0 area. Oh and the entire internal/external flash distinction is pretty LART-centric as well. >Q.3 What are the things I need to accomplish this ? See above. >Q.4 What area of blob code would need change to run blob on the 'Intel >Brutus Board'. You'd probablu have to rewrite the flash programming code in src/flash.c (if you want blob to write a kernel/ramdisk to flash), and maybe change the memory parameters in src/start.S. >I have a Linux system and I have installed Cross compiler tools for arms >on my Linux box, I am not sure about what versions of binutils and gcc, I >have. How can I find out the version of this tools on my Linux box. binutils: arm-linux-objcopy -V gcc: arm-linux-gcc -v HTH, JDB. [who doesn't have access to a Brutus, so can't check the details easily] -- If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. -- Arthur Kasspe -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 23 20:56:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23391 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:56:30 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23387 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:56:29 +0100 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f146.hotmail.com [216.32.181.146]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FRW008FE4Q4LI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:56:29 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 24233 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:56:17 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.28 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:56:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:56:17 +0200 (EET) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: Re: LAN and WLAN To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000323195617.24232.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.28] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ok. Do you have any idea when this KSB will be in "beta state" and ready to try? >From: Erik Mouw >To: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com >CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Subject: Re: LAN and WLAN >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:20:56 +0100 (MET) > >On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:50 +0200 (EET), Mika Lauronen wrote: > > We are planning to start to develop a general purpose ARM based board > > with LAN and WLAN support. Also we see a need for the hardware based > > compressing. > > > > We know we are not alone with this subject and this LART project sounds >like > > it's very close to it. > > > > We've understood that some of you is developing LAN support for the > > LART. Is it so and what is the status? > >The first two prototypes of the Kitchen Sink Board arrived yesterday. JDB >did some first tests (as in: "no, it's not a 0 Ohm resistor"). I can't say >when we start writing the first driver, but it will be Real Soon Now [tm]. >The single ethernet PCB isn't yet assembled, so the ethernet driver will >come a bit later. > > > And how about wireless networking (based on pcmcia/pc-card)? > >We have some old (2 Mbit) wavelan pcmcia cards, and we have plans to port >the driver to LART (but we have so many plans ;-). > > >Erik > >-- >unix soit qui mal y pense > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 24 00:40:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01536 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:40:01 +0100 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01531; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:39:55 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000323195617.24232.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:39:43 +0100 To: Mika Lauronen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LAN and WLAN Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Ok. Do you have any idea when this KSB will be in "beta state" >and ready to try? Once I'm convinced that the major features of the KSB are OK (or at least trivially patchable) I'll release a hardware distribution, just like for LART. If all's well, I expect this to be around the end of next week. Don't worry; LARTlist will be first to know. JDB [who defines 'major features' as sound out, UCB1200, IDE and Ethernet i/f] -- "...which gives the server a futuristic, serverish, 'Don't touch me, or I will put a printer up your ass!', kind of look." (Nir Soffer in ASR) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 24 15:23:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03597 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:23:14 +0100 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03592; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:23:09 +0100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:23:04 +0100 To: "Modi, Al" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Building Blob Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Jan-Derk, thank you for answering my questions on building blob. I have >following additional questions on hardware organization of LART. Is there a >document that I can down load to get additional information on LART >hardware >configuration ? The best (and only) docs are the schematics; see http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/ >>LART has four 8MB memory blocks, divided over DRAM banks 0 and 1: >>0xC0000000-0xC07FFFFF - This is Bank 0 >>0xC1000000-0xC17FFFFF - This is Bank 1 >>0xC8000000-0xC87FFFFF >>0xC9000000-0xC97FFFFF No, 0xC0000000-0xC07FFFFF and 0xC1000000-0xC17FFFFF are bank 0, and 0xC8000000-0xC87FFFFF and 0xC9000000-0xC97FFFFF are bank 1. See the SA-1100 Technocal Reference Manual at http://developer.intel.com/ for the SA memory map. >>The current blob makes some assumptions: >>- only banks 0 and 1 are active (fixable in src/start.S) >>- the area from 0xC0000000 contains RAM at least up to 0xC0400000. To do >>actual work; this block must at least extend to (0xC0400000 + >>sizeof(ramdisk)). >>- the kernel and the ramdisk live in Chip Select 0 area. >Q.1 This means the size of the unzipped kernel + unzipped ramdisk must be >less than 8MB. Is this correct ? No; The kernel has its own magic to unzip itself and the ramdisk; ATM i am happily running with a kernel just shy of 1MB and an 8MB ramdisk. >Q.2 What if the size of the unzipped kernel and ramdiks is > 8MB. Does it >mean that you can not run this configuration on the LART hardware ? You >must reduce the size 0f kernel + ramdisk < 8MB. See above. The current flash parts are 4MB total, so: sizeof(compressed kernel) + sizeof(compressed ramdisk) + sizeof(blob) < 4MB. >Q.3 How is memory organized on the LART board ? Is memory in each bank is >organized 32 bit wide or 16 bit wide ? All on-board memory is 32 bit wide; external (boot-)memory is 16 bit wide. >Q.4 Is SA-1100 run in ARM mode (32 bit mode) or Thumb mode (16 bit mode) ? The SA-1100 doesn't support Thumb. >Q.5 Is memory configured in little endian or big endian format ? Memory _accesses_ are little endian, as this is what the kernel is most comfortable with. The LART doesn't care either way, you could run it in big endian mode. >Q.6 Can LART support 16MB of memory in Bank 0 and Bank 1 ? That is the current configuration; 32 MB evenly divided over banks 0 and 1. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 24 18:17:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04482 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:17:07 +0100 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04478 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:17:06 +0100 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FRX00I6WS0H73@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:17:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from earthlink.net (sdn-ar-001riprovP194.dialsprint.net [206.133.176.106]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04674 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:15:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:20:38 -0500 From: "Samuel E. Riffle" Subject: Linux hardware design refrence updates To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: sriffle@ieee.org Message-id: <38DBA3E5.DA169FB5@earthlink.net> Organization: tSSRG MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,es Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk subscribe lart sriffle@ieee.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Mar 25 15:10:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06980 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:27 +0100 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06976 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:27 +0100 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id PAA11856; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id PAA30514 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:26 +0100 Message-Id: <200003251410.PAA30514@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Announce: blob-1.0.6 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:26 +0100 (CET) From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just released blob-1.0.6, the latest and greatest version of the LART bootloader. What's new w.r.t blob-1.0.5: * Changed the license: booting an OS is no longer considered a derived work * Added and documented Johan's (highly experimental) clock scaling code * Minor changes in the documentation Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 26 10:01:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08550 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:01:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08546 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:01:10 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS0009QQRLYB6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:01:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from hotmail.com ([24.200.14.94]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FS0001TQRAPIW@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:54:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:58:43 -0500 From: Agarwal Subject: More info To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38DDC332.842153B2@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi guys, First, let me say: wow. This product is very impressive, because it is almost all I was searching for. I was in the process of finding a good compagny to design such a board for a commercial product that I want to build and I then heard of the LART. Like I already said, wow :) I'll talk more about the product I want to develop later... Now, if possible, I would like some info about the board. When the mainboard is connected to the KSB, is it still possible to connect other add-on boards to the mainboard, or it is just possible to connect one at a time? If it's possible to connect more than one board, I would probably have 3: the KSB, a GPS header and an FM receiver. Sounds possible? (beside the fact that the last 2 boards are not even in development yet :)) Simon Labrecque -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 26 10:34:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08625 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:34:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08621 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:34:07 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f281.hotmail.com [216.32.180.135]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS000AEGT4UFP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:34:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 509 invoked by uid 0); Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:33:55 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.17 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:33:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:33:55 +0100 (EEST) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: Re: Announce: blob-1.0.6 To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000326083355.508.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.17] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, What does it mean, if the licence is "derived work"? >From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) >To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Subject: Announce: blob-1.0.6 >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:10:26 +0100 (CET) > >Hi all, > >I just released blob-1.0.6, the latest and greatest version of the LART >bootloader. What's new w.r.t blob-1.0.5: > >* Changed the license: booting an OS is no longer considered a derived > work >* Added and documented Johan's (highly experimental) clock scaling code >* Minor changes in the documentation > > >Erik > >-- >J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department >of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, >Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The >Netherlands >Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl >WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 26 13:51:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08785 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:51:18 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08781 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:51:17 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA15378; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:51:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:51:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003261151.NAA15378@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Announce: blob-1.0.6 In-Reply-To: <20000326083355.508.qmail@hotmail.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:33:55 +0100 (EEST), Mika Lauronen wrote: > What does it mean, if the licence is "derived work"? > >>From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) >>* Changed the license: booting an OS is no longer considered a derived >> work I don't think the CVS log entry made clear what I meant. I'll explain. The problem that might arise is that the GPL (under which BLOB is released) considers everything that uses the Program (BLOB) as a derived work. That would mean that you would only be able to boot GPL'ed operating systems, like Linux or Hurd. The slightly modified license allows you to boot any operating system, because we think that booting operating systems (or whatever you want to start) can be considered as normal use for a bootloader. Here is the exact text I added to the COPYING file: NOTE: This copyright does NOT cover operating systems or programs booted or started by BLOB. This is considered normal use for a boot loader, and does NOT fall under the heading of "derived work". Erik Mouw You will notice that this is inspired by the Linux kernel license, which contains the same phrase w.r.t. binaries. Erik -- "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Mar 26 14:14:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08892 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:14:36 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08888 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:14:35 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA15448; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:14:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:14:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003261214.OAA15448@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: blob patches Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I know that some of you guys out there have been hacking on blob to get it to work on several other SA1100 and SA1110 based systems. It would be nice if blob contained support for all other SA11x0 based boards, so I'd like to integrate your patches into the next release (1.0.7). If you made a patch for blob, could you send it to me privately? Erik -- "God. Root. What is difference?" -- Pitr in "User Friendly" by Illiad -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 07:23:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09840 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:23:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09836 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:23:19 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS2004WMEYUW0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:23:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id PAA2587919; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:25:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:25:01 -0800 From: Greg Fountain Subject: LART Mainboard PC Board Fab & Assembly To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38DE9C4D.59B232F5@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------693F213E147931C69425F1CD" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------693F213E147931C69425F1CD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the next two weeks or so I'm planning to place an order to fabricate a TBD number of LART mainboards based upon the Schematics and Gerber files which have been posted on the LART website. In addition, since the design uses relatively fine pitch Surface Mount components these boards will not be the type which can be assembled easily by hand. I will probably have a commercial shop here in Silicon Valley do my assembly. I would be interested obtaining feedback on what the potential demand might be before I release the Gerbers to the PCB fab. I don't want to order too many boards if the demand is very limited. Not to mention the fact that my wife might (will?) get upset at carrying the cost for all the unused boards and parts. To be honest I'm more of a hardware type than a true embedded LINUX hacker ... I would prefer to work with a Kernel zealot here in California (Or the western US) that could help with the software/firmware side of the debugging process. If that's not practical I can ship one or two ot the prototype development boards to a partner in a more distant location. Any volunteers? My own thinking on this subject is to produce a small number first (<6). Once the design has been independently validated the risk associated with producing a larger number boards (for those who might have an interest) will be greatly reduced. For example, looking at the photos on the website it looks like the X1 and X2 crystal footprints might have been reversed. I happen to use OrCAD anyone have any opinions on what would be the preferred CAD environment (Protel maybe)? Greg Menlo Park, California USA --------------693F213E147931C69425F1CD Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------693F213E147931C69425F1CD-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 08:35:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10246 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:35:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10242 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:35:18 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS20092EIAQE7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:35:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:29:38 +1000 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:29:38 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Announce: blob-1.0.6 In-reply-to: <200003261151.NAA15378@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Erik Mouw Cc: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Mar 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:33:55 +0100 (EEST), Mika Lauronen wrote: > > What does it mean, if the licence is "derived work"? > > > >>From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) > >>* Changed the license: booting an OS is no longer considered a derived > >> work > > I don't think the CVS log entry made clear what I meant. I'll explain. > > The problem that might arise is that the GPL (under which BLOB is > released) considers everything that uses the Program (BLOB) as a derived > work. That would mean that you would only be able to boot GPL'ed operating > systems, like Linux or Hurd. I doubt thats the case. I'm sure GPL only covers code 'linked' in with the GPL'd code. As such any OS booted isn't linked into BLOB. Cheers Adam > > The slightly modified license allows you to boot any operating system, > because we think that booting operating systems (or whatever you want to > start) can be considered as normal use for a bootloader. > > Here is the exact text I added to the COPYING file: > > NOTE: This copyright does NOT cover operating systems or programs > booted or started by BLOB. This is considered normal use for a boot > loader, and does NOT fall under the heading of "derived work". > > Erik Mouw > > You will notice that this is inspired by the Linux kernel license, which > contains the same phrase w.r.t. binaries. > > > Erik > > -- > "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is > legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." > -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 10:07:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10400 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:07:13 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10395; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:07:09 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38DE9C4D.59B232F5@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:01:24 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART Mainboard PC Board Fab & Assembly Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >To be honest I'm more of a hardware type than a true embedded LINUX >hacker ... I would prefer to work with a Kernel zealot here in >California (Or the western US) that could help with the >software/firmware side of the debugging process. If that's not practical >I can ship one or two ot the prototype development boards to a partner >in a more distant location. Any volunteers? What exactly do you expect to have to debug on the software/firmware side ? >My own thinking on this subject is to produce a small number first (<6). >Once the design has been independently validated the risk associated >with producing a larger number boards (for those who might have an >interest) will be greatly reduced. For example, looking at the photos on >the website it looks like the X1 and X2 crystal footprints might have >been reversed. The photos are of Rev 1 PCBs; all (three) bugs in those have been fixed in the Rev 3 PCBs (which are the ones in the hardware distro). The Gerbers in the hardware distribution are the ones I used myself for a proto run; those have no (known) errors. >I happen to use OrCAD anyone have any opinions on what would be the >preferred CAD environment (Protel maybe)? The current LART design is in EDWin (an obscure Win16-based package). I'm not too sure if there's a workable way to export to OrCAD/Protel/whatever. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 10:16:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10428 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:16:28 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10423; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:16:25 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38DDC332.842153B2@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:10:43 +0200 To: Agarwal From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: More info Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 09:58 +0200 26-03-2000, Agarwal wrote: >Hi guys, > > First, let me say: wow. This product is very impressive, because it >is almost all I was searching for. I was in the process of finding a >good compagny to design such a board for a commercial product that I >want to build and I then heard of the LART. Like I already said, wow :) >I'll talk more about the product I want to develop later... Thanks ! > Now, if possible, I would like some info about the board. When the >mainboard is connected to the KSB, is it still possible to connect other >add-on boards to the mainboard, or it is just possible to connect one at >a time? The LART has two data connectors: a high speed one (full address space, 32 bit) and a low speed one (reduced address space, 16 bit). It's possible to connect two boards (piggy-backed) to the high speed bus, and one to the low speed bus. I'll put some purty pictures on the website shortly (ie when I find some time to make them). > If it's possible to connect more than one board, I would >probably have 3: the KSB, a GPS header and an FM receiver. Sounds >possible? (beside the fact that the last 2 boards are not even in >development yet :)) Most GPS kit that I know of uses one serial link (or two, including NMEA-0183), either at RS232 or TTL voltage levels. That can easily be accommodated; I don't know any digital FM receiver chipsets so I can't comment there (although I suppose it can be hooked up to the high speed bus). JDB. -- If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. -- Arthur Kasspe -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 13:08:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10788 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:08:29 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10784 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:08:28 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA20244; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:08:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:08:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003271108.NAA20244@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: awiggins@cse.unsw.edu.au Cc: mastersoftoy@hotmail.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Announce: blob-1.0.6 In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:29:38 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > On Sun, 26 Mar 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> The problem that might arise is that the GPL (under which BLOB is >> released) considers everything that uses the Program (BLOB) as a derived >> work. That would mean that you would only be able to boot GPL'ed operating >> systems, like Linux or Hurd. > > I doubt thats the case. I'm sure GPL only covers code 'linked' in > with the GPL'd code. As such any OS booted isn't linked into BLOB. Hmm, maybe you're right, I'm not a lawyer. I felt that it was better to tell explicitly that booting an OS is seen as a normal way of operation, just like using Linux syscalls is considered normal operation. Linus decided to modify the GPL for the kernel because the concept "linked" is very vague. The problem might become more clear if we want to support the SA1100 sleep mode, for which you need explicit support from the bootloader. In that case we are prepared and allow "linking" with the OS. Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 13:13:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10805 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:13:11 +0200 Received: from pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl (pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.158.204]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10801 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:13:10 +0200 Received: from localhost (pouwelse@localhost) by pgsultra.pds.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA03678; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:12:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:12:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johan Pouwelse X-Sender: pouwelse@pgsultra To: "Richard A. Smith" cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Subject: touchscreens In-Reply-To: <0FRS00KZR3LEP8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Hmmm don't think this is what I need. Is lart going to use the > touchscreen interface? We do a lot with touchscreens here. We are also interested in touchscreens. The UCB1200 we use on the KSB has a "four wire resistive touchscreen interface circuit supporting position, plate, and pressure resistance measurements". I'm looking into the possibility of adding handwriting recognition to the LART together with another university (http://hwr.nici.kun.nl/) We would like to have a 320*240 touchscreen display and connect it to the UCB1200. We prefer a color version if the power consumption is not above 5 W. The touchscreen must be small, cost is no issue. What touchscreen would you advise ? (I found http://www.salt.com.tw/p4.htm as possible supplier) Johan Pouwelse -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 13:51:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10895 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:51:08 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10891; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:51:06 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <0FRS00KZR3LEP8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:44:53 +0200 To: Johan Pouwelse From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: LCDs and touchscreens Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >What touchscreen would you advise ? >(I found http://www.salt.com.tw/p4.htm as possible supplier) http://www.datamodul.de/ and http://www.datamodul.com/ are a bit closer to home, and may also carry touch screen stuff. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 14:12:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10953 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:12:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10949 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:12:17 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f274.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.149]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS200AE8XWFP2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:12:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 72259 invoked by uid 0); Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:12:04 +0000 Received: from 24.200.14.94 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:12:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:12:04 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: More info To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000327121204.72258.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I read on the mailing list that there is currently a GPS board in development; that would mean that this one is being developed with the low connector, since it obviously needs a display? For the FM receiver, I think the easiest way would be to develop a low-connection board for it, right? Would it be possible to have the GPS header and the FM receiver on the same low-connection board? Thanks in advance. Simon Labrecque > >Hi guys, > > > > First, let me say: wow. This product is very impressive, because it > >is almost all I was searching for. I was in the process of finding a > >good compagny to design such a board for a commercial product that I > >want to build and I then heard of the LART. Like I already said, wow :) > >I'll talk more about the product I want to develop later... > >Thanks ! > > > Now, if possible, I would like some info about the board. When the > >mainboard is connected to the KSB, is it still possible to connect other > >add-on boards to the mainboard, or it is just possible to connect one at > >a time? > >The LART has two data connectors: a high speed one (full address space, 32 >bit) and a low speed one (reduced address space, 16 bit). It's possible to >connect two boards (piggy-backed) to the high speed bus, and one to the low >speed bus. I'll put some purty pictures on the website shortly (ie when I >find some time to make them). > > > If it's possible to connect more than one board, I would > >probably have 3: the KSB, a GPS header and an FM receiver. Sounds > >possible? (beside the fact that the last 2 boards are not even in > >development yet :)) > >Most GPS kit that I know of uses one serial link (or two, including >NMEA-0183), either at RS232 or TTL voltage levels. That can easily be >accommodated; I don't know any digital FM receiver chipsets so I can't >comment there (although I suppose it can be hooked up to the high speed >bus). > >JDB. > >-- >If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. > -- Arthur Kasspe > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 14:20:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10978 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:20:46 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10974 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:20:45 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA20729; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:19:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:19:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003271219.OAA20729@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: B8502004@mail.ntust.edu.tw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blob loader In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:44:23 +0800 (CST), Chester wrote: [Cc-ed to the LART list, there are more people out there porting blob to sa1110 platforms] >> Erm, you can't use Angel and blob together. Blob assumes that it is loaded >> at (physical) address 0x00000000. My guess is that you're trying to start >> blob from Angel, and that's not possible. You can remove Angel completely >> and use blob instead, or you can modify the blob link script so it starts >> at a different address. > > I didn't use angel and blob together. I got two pair of flash. > one is brust angel and other is blob. OK. I was just trying to rule out possible errors. > (I hate my poor english) > I means,when i use angelboot loader to test my sa-1110 board. > It only response "Angel debug monirot" when using angelboot loader. > And when i use blob to test my sa-1110 board,it doesn't have anything > when i reset sa-1110 board. Right, you have to do some hardcore debugging now. I think you have to change the CPU and/or DRAM setup. Edit start.S, go to line 71 (just after the label "old_blink_led") and add the line: b skip_proc_init Now go to line 106 (right after "Do port setup the paranoid way"), and add the line: skip_proc_init: In this way you'll jump over initialization code and initialize the serial port immediately. Blob will crash at a later point, but it should first print "Consider yourself LARTed". If this works, you can be sure that the problem is in the CPU or DRAM setup. I can't help you with that, you have to change it for your board. Erik -- Computers run on faith, not electrons. -- T.N. Thompson -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 19:26:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11582 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:26:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11578 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:26:32 +0200 Received: from easter.axysdesign.com ([198.172.73.114]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS3007C3CG7J5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:26:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from axysdesign.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by easter.axysdesign.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F601D780C; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:25:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:25:54 -0800 From: Bill Sidhipong Subject: Re: LART Mainboard PC Board Fab & Assembly To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Cc: Lart Mail Server Message-id: <38DF99A2.5965BB8D@axysdesign.com> Organization: AXYS Design, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15pre14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38DE9C4D.59B232F5@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Greg Fountain wrote: > I would be interested obtaining feedback on what the potential demand > might be before I release the Gerbers to the PCB fab. I don't want to For me this depends on the price. I was going to do what you propose myself but considering I am not really in this business I didn't know where to begin =:) If the unit price can be kept low (approx. $300 or so) I would like to order two units. Perhaps three =:) > To be honest I'm more of a hardware type than a true embedded LINUX > hacker ... I would prefer to work with a Kernel zealot here in > California (Or the western US) that could help with the > software/firmware side of the debugging process. If that's not practical > I can ship one or two ot the prototype development boards to a partner > in a more distant location. Any volunteers? I need to use the LART in home automation project (nothing to do with the company I work for - they are EDA, not smart homes ;) which will involve writing some userland applications and some kernelspace drivers for D/A converter, sensors, etc. Is this what you have in mind? I have zero ARM experience so this is news to me too :) -- Bill Sidhipong AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Mar 27 20:17:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11706 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:17:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11702 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:17:20 +0200 Received: from mena.arkansasusa.com (ns4.arkansasusa.com [12.14.232.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS300A2FEST7O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:17:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from BITWORKS.COM ([12.14.238.88]) by mena.arkansasusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57470U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:18:43 -0600 Received: from richard.bitworks.com [192.168.0.6] by BITWORKS.COM [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 1994 12:30:55 -0600 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:32:15 -0600 From: "Richard A. Smith" Subject: Re: touchscreens To: Johan Pouwelse Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Reply-to: "Richard A. Smith" Message-id: <0FS300A2GESU7O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:12:41 +0200 (MET DST), Johan Pouwelse wrote: >The UCB1200 we use on the KSB has a "four wire resistive touchscreen >interface circuit supporting position, plate, and pressure resistance >measurements". Hmmm... I wonder what "plate measurement" is. Curious that they say the chipset can do pressure measurements they must be doing something different than the std 4 xsistor interface. I was under the understanding that you needed a 5 wire to do pressure sensing. >I'm looking into the possibility of adding handwriting recognition to the >LART together with another university (http://hwr.nici.kun.nl/) Very Cool. >We would like to have a 320*240 touchscreen display and connect it to the >UCB1200. Well an analog touuchscreen has an infinite resolution so I guess you mean the LCD. We actually purchase our LCD and touchscreens seperate and attach them to the LCD ourselves. We use a small bead of silicone around the edge of the touchscreen to bond it to the LCD. Make it lots eaiser later if you have to remove the touchscreen. > We prefer a color version if the power consumption is not above 5 W. >The touchscreen must be small, cost is no issue. I know you can get monochrome displays that will meet your needs. They make displays that require no backlight. Color on ther other hand may be difficult. All the color displays we use are TFT and they require lots of juice. (Thats why laptop batteries don't last more than 2 hours) >What touchscreen would you advise ? >(I found http://www.salt.com.tw/p4.htm as possible supplier) There are lots of suppliers that make touchscreens that will fit on a 320x240. We buy Danapro (http://www.dynapro.com) via one of our distributors. Our part number is 95638. I think its the Flex on glass on the website. However, since you aren't in the us most of my resources won't help you much. Most of them we have found just by doing searching for "touchscreen" on the internet. However Salt is a new one. I may have to have them give me quote. Operational wise all 4 wire touchscreens are basically created equal. You just have to figure out which wires energize which planes and adjust your software accordingly. (The UCB1200 must have some settings to control this) Most of the difference comes in the physicals. The size of the area around the active area varies as does the location of the connection tail and weither or not the tail comes with a berg connector or not. A berg connector will plug up to a 4x1 .100" header. You will have to find one that fits the LCD you select. Once you find an LCD you like you will have to get all its mechanicals and match a touchscreen to it. Request a sample and check. Note: lots of touchscreens use silver ink as the "wire" in the connection tail. If you crease, kink, fold, spindle, or otherwise mutilate that tail then you will crack the ink and either throw the calibration way off or render the touchscreen useless. -- Richard A. Smith Bitworks, Inc. rsmith@bitworks.com 501.846.5777 Sr. Design Engineer http://www.bitworks.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 28 00:19:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12479 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:19:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12475 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:19:30 +0200 Received: from easter.axysdesign.com ([198.172.73.114]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS300J1PQ0FSU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:19:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from axysdesign.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by easter.axysdesign.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF63F1D7806; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:13:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:13:28 -0800 From: Bill Sidhipong Subject: Re: LART Mainboard PC Board Fab & Assembly To: Mike Ingle Cc: Lart Mail Server Message-id: <38DFDD08.B9D6A35B@axysdesign.com> Organization: AXYS Design, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15pre14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38DE9C4D.59B232F5@ix.netcom.com> <4.2.0.58.20000327121201.00b122b0@email.ancore.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mike Ingle wrote: > > I am also interested in fabbing a few boards. I have in mind to add an > altera 6016 FPGA and some SRAM either to the main board, or via one of the > interface connectors. I am located if the SF bay area. I would like to > share the NRE w/ someone, and can generate the necessary layouts if there > is a common hardware feature set we would like to add. Besides the > FPGA/SRAM, I also need a some DACs. Why not make this on the expansion board of some sort? I'd love to have the following: o D/A and A/D converters, 8-16 bit resolution. o General purpose I/O lines isolated from the CPU o Servo/stepper motor controllers (I could pick this up separately as a serial-based unit so it's not a high-priority item for me). What do you think? -- Bill Sidhipong AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 28 12:57:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13790 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:57:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13786 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:57:47 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f192.hotmail.com [216.32.181.192]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS4000GMP49G5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:57:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 21298 invoked by uid 0); Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:57:35 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.30 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:57:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:57:34 +0100 (EEST) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: LARTware pcmcia? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000328105735.21297.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.30] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Anybody going to develop pcmcia for the LART mainboard? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 28 13:16:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13821 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:16:21 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13816; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:16:18 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000328105735.21297.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:16:11 +0200 To: Mika Lauronen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LARTware pcmcia? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 14:57 +0200 28-03-2000, Mika Lauronen wrote: >Anybody going to develop pcmcia for the LART >mainboard? That would be me ;-) I have a two-slot PCMCIA adapter on the drawing board. No hot swap capability (ie change cards with power off) and no dynamic switching between 3v3 and 5v, but fully functional otherwise. The hard parts (address and data buses) are almost routed; I expect to have a finished design by the end of the week. JDB. -- "Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot." -- Arne Damvin in asr -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Mar 28 14:22:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13970 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:22:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13966 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:22:46 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f62.hotmail.com [216.32.181.62]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS4007FST1WHZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:22:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 75818 invoked by uid 0); Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:22:34 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.10 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:22:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:22:33 +0100 (EEST) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: Re: LARTware pcmcia? To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000328122234.75817.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.10] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk That is the latest missing part of LART for us... Now it is possible to use ethernet cards, modems, WLAN cards etc. with the lart (ok, there must be correct and working drivers;) and that gives HUGE number of applications to use the board with ;) >From: "J.D. Bakker" >To: Mika Lauronen >CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Subject: Re: LARTware pcmcia? >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:16:11 +0200 > >At 14:57 +0200 28-03-2000, Mika Lauronen wrote: > >Anybody going to develop pcmcia for the LART > >mainboard? > >That would be me ;-) > >I have a two-slot PCMCIA adapter on the drawing board. No hot swap >capability (ie change cards with power off) and no dynamic switching >between 3v3 and 5v, but fully functional otherwise. The hard parts (address >and data buses) are almost routed; I expect to have a finished design by >the end of the week. > >JDB. > >-- >"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press >any key to reboot." > -- Arne Damvin in asr > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 03:53:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16002 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:53:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15998 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:53:24 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f24.hotmail.com [209.185.131.87]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS5000CEUKZET@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:53:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 61116 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:53:12 +0000 Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:53:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:53:12 -0800 (PST) From: chaman bagga Subject: usb keyboard/mouse To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000329015312.61115.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I don't know if this is the right question to ask (since my knowledge about usb is limited)... from sa1100 docs, the usb is supposed to be a slave port for transferring data from the pc, so if the pc is not connected to the usb port, will the sa1100 usb port still be able to take data from the keyboard/mouse??? Please CC: reply to me, i'm not subscribed to this list. Regards, Chaman Bagga. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 11:20:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16831 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:20:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16827 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:20:07 +0200 Received: from navigator.sw.com.sg (navigator.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.131]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS600G05F91WM@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:20:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from exchruhydro.sw.com.sg (exchruhydro.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.3]) by navigator.sw.com.sg (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01319 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:30 +0400 (MSD) Received: by exchruhydro.sw.com.sg with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:00:04 +0400 Received: from cyber (cyber.int.sw.ru [195.16.40.122]) by exchruhydro.sw.com.sg with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id HZ8D9L7Q; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:00:00 +0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:00:13 +0400 From: Gennady Kurtsman Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse To: chaman bagga , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <003b01bf995d$32124690$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk SA1100 integrated USB controller isn't intended to work as *host* or *hub*. So, it isn't able to get data from USB *devices*, such as keyboard and mouse. Intel recommends to use companion chip. Moreover, it looks like SA1100 USB interface doesn't work correctly in *device* mode too. I struggled with it desperately within 1 month. Intel's support service couldn't advise me anything constructive. Does anybody have a positive experience with SA1100 USB ? Best regards, Gennadiy Kurtsman. -----Original Message----- From: chaman bagga To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 5:55 AM Subject: usb keyboard/mouse > > >I don't know if this is the right question to ask (since my knowledge about >usb is limited)... from sa1100 docs, the usb is supposed to be a slave port >for transferring data from the pc, so if the pc is not connected to the usb >port, will the sa1100 usb port still be able to take data from the >keyboard/mouse??? > >Please CC: reply to me, i'm not subscribed to this list. > >Regards, >Chaman Bagga. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 12:01:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16919 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:01:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16915 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:01:57 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f135.hotmail.com [209.185.131.198]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS600JMOH78KF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:01:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 99030 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:01:45 +0000 Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:01:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:01:45 -0800 (PST) From: chaman bagga Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000329100145.99029.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk That implies SA1100 cannot read directly from keyboard/mouse. Only when it is connected to PC's host usb port, the data can be transferred first to PC which can then transfer it to SA1100 USB port.. am I right? Regards, Chaman Bagga. >From: "Gennadiy M. Kurtsman" >To: "chaman bagga" , >Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:00:13 +0400 > >SA1100 integrated USB controller isn't intended to work as *host* or *hub*. >So, it isn't able to get data from USB *devices*, such as keyboard and >mouse. Intel recommends to use companion chip. Moreover, it looks like >SA1100 USB interface doesn't work correctly in *device* mode too. I >struggled with it desperately within 1 month. Intel's support service >couldn't advise me anything constructive. Does anybody have a positive >experience with SA1100 USB ? >Best regards, >Gennadiy Kurtsman. > >-----Original Message----- >From: chaman bagga >To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 5:55 AM >Subject: usb keyboard/mouse > > > > > > > >I don't know if this is the right question to ask (since my knowledge >about > >usb is limited)... from sa1100 docs, the usb is supposed to be a slave >port > >for transferring data from the pc, so if the pc is not connected to the >usb > >port, will the sa1100 usb port still be able to take data from the > >keyboard/mouse??? > > > >Please CC: reply to me, i'm not subscribed to this list. > > > >Regards, > >Chaman Bagga. > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- > >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 12:46:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17024 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:46:44 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17019; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:46:41 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000329100145.99029.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:46:32 +0200 To: chaman bagga From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 12:01 +0200 29-03-2000, chaman bagga wrote: >That implies SA1100 cannot read directly from keyboard/mouse. Only when it >is connected to PC's host usb port, the data can be transferred first to PC >which can then transfer it to SA1100 USB port.. am I right? Almost. An additional problem is that the USB client in the SA gets upset if it isn't the only client (see the errata). The only configuration that works (if I read the docs right) is: PC<--->USB hub<--->SA-1100 No more, no less. So also no mice. On the other hand, the KSB has PS/2 connectors, so if you want keyboard/mouse; you can connect them thriugh the KSB. JDB [figuring out why the audio DAC on the KSB produces nothing but static] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 12:47:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17039 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:47:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17035 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:47:23 +0200 Received: from navigator.sw.com.sg (navigator.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.131]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS6000ORJ9U28@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:47:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from exchruhydro.sw.com.sg (exchruhydro.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.3]) by navigator.sw.com.sg (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02508 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:31:16 +0400 (MSD) Received: by exchruhydro.sw.com.sg with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:26:50 +0400 Received: from CYBER ([195.16.40.122]) by exchruhydro.sw.com.sg with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id HZ8D9MFC; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:26:45 +0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:26:54 +0400 From: Gennady Kurtsman Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse To: chaman bagga , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <005401bf9969$50a6aea0$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This configuration is workable but you need in special PC software driver, retranslating keyboard/mouse data to SA1100. GK. -----Original Message----- From: chaman bagga To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse > >That implies SA1100 cannot read directly from keyboard/mouse. Only when it >is connected to PC's host usb port, the data can be transferred first to PC >which can then transfer it to SA1100 USB port.. am I right? > >Regards, >Chaman Bagga. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 17:03:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17598 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:03:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17594 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:03:56 +0200 Received: from inuit.authentica-security.com (inuit.authentica-security.com [208.249.150.210]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS600L0SV6J8E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:03:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nome.authentica.com by inuit.authentica-security.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:03:55 +0000 (UT) Received: from iceberg (iceberg.authentica.com [192.168.85.148]) by nome.authentica.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA06493 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:01:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:00:13 -0500 From: "C. Wegrzyn" Subject: SA1100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <008d01bf998f$94667960$9455a8c0@authentica.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <003b01bf995d$32124690$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've heard from a VC friend of mine that the SA is being phased out. Intel supposedly bought it to kill it. Does anyone know anything about this gossip? I'm trying to determine if I should venture into using the LART but don't want to waste my time. Chuck Wegrzyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gennady Kurtsman" To: "chaman bagga" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 4:00 AM Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse > SA1100 integrated USB controller isn't intended to work as *host* or *hub*. > So, it isn't able to get data from USB *devices*, such as keyboard and > mouse. Intel recommends to use companion chip. Moreover, it looks like > SA1100 USB interface doesn't work correctly in *device* mode too. I > struggled with it desperately within 1 month. Intel's support service > couldn't advise me anything constructive. Does anybody have a positive > experience with SA1100 USB ? > Best regards, > Gennadiy Kurtsman. > > -----Original Message----- > From: chaman bagga > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 5:55 AM > Subject: usb keyboard/mouse > > > > > > > >I don't know if this is the right question to ask (since my knowledge about > >usb is limited)... from sa1100 docs, the usb is supposed to be a slave port > >for transferring data from the pc, so if the pc is not connected to the usb > >port, will the sa1100 usb port still be able to take data from the > >keyboard/mouse??? > > > >Please CC: reply to me, i'm not subscribed to this list. > > > >Regards, > >Chaman Bagga. > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- > >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 17:40:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17647 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:40:39 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17642 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:40:37 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id RAA07016; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:40:25 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:40:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003291540.RAA07016@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: wegrzyn@garbagedump.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: SA1100 In-Reply-To: <008d01bf998f$94667960$9455a8c0@authentica.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:00:13 -0500, C. Wegrzyn wrote: > I've heard from a VC friend of mine that the SA is being phased out. Intel > supposedly bought it to kill it. Does anyone know anything about this > gossip? I'm trying to determine if I should venture into using the LART but > don't want to waste my time. Hmm, I think this is just plain FUD. After Intel bought the SA-1100 from Digital semiconductors they released the SA-1110 (an SA-1100 with SDRAM interface and some silicon errors fixed), and the IXP-1200, which is an SA1 core with some network stuff glued to it. They're currently developing the SA2 core which is planned to run at 600MHz while still having low power requirements. LART itself isn't tied to a certain CPU, it is very well possible to use other CPUs as well (hey: a Transmeta Crusoe ;-). The LART FAQ answers some of these issues in the "LART vs. PLEB" page: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq-lart-vs-pleb.php3 Erik -- "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 21:58:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18394 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:58:41 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18390 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:58:39 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS700BTK8TQYA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:58:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23834 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19958 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:51:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:53:42 -0500 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38E25F45.F57F67D3@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <005401bf9969$50a6aea0$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk For what its worth Intel has an AppNote "USB Client Device Validation for the SA-1100" that can be had from http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/applnots/278244.htm Best Regards Terrance -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 22:30:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18563 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:30:49 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18559 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:30:49 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA08711; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:30:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:30:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003292030.WAA08711@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: KSB pictures avaiable Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just made some pictures of the Kitchen Sink Board (flatbed scanners are so nice ;-). They're available at l'Art gallery: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/gallery.php3#ksb Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 22:56:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18657 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:56:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18653 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:56:49 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS700FDPBINE1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:56:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 59850 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:56:36 +0000 Received: from 24.201.77.13 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000329205636.59849.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [24.201.77.13] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I read on the mailing list that there is currently a GPS board in development; that would mean that this one is being developed with the low connector, since it obviously needs a display? I would be highly interested in that one. I would also need an FM receiver. I think the best (but not the less costy :)) way would be to develop a low-connection board for it, right? Would it be possible to have the GPS header and the FM receiver on the same low-connection board? Thanks in advance. Simon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 23:05:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18698 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:05:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18694 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:05:52 +0200 Received: from email.ancore.com (host13.ancore.com [204.118.176.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS700G2DBXQ6Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:05:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from webbis (webbis.ancore.com [204.118.176.42]) by email.ancore.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id G10N19HG; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:02:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:55:58 -0800 From: Mike Ingle Subject: PCB quote from US X-Sender: mikei@email.ancore.com To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk LOW PRICE GUARANTEE   = ;  Quote Number: 156432
Quote Date: 3/28/00
Part Number: ancoreSA Revision: 3
To Preview Order, click on unit price
<= th width=3D84>3-daysame-day
PROTOTYPE Price Matrix - unit price
Qty5-day4-day2-day1-day
2$343.50$493.50$768.50$968.50$1,268.50n/a
10$81.70$111.70$166.70$206.70$266.70n/a
Prototype assumptions/specs: 6 Layers, 0.062 "FR4, Dimensions: 4" x 2.75", Plating: SMOBC, Cu Weight: 1 oz., Trace width/space: 0.006, Smallest hole size: 0.012", Gold Fingers:None, SMDs-top:650, SMDs-bottom: 350, SMD Pitch: 0.015", Sides to solder mask: 2 with LPI, Sides to legend: 1, CNC Rout points: 4, Tab Route: No, Scoring: No.
Prototype Tolerances: Drill +/- .005", rout +/- .010", mask +/- .006". All holes plated through.
Test NRE =3D $299.75 (adds 1 day to delivery)
To Preview Order, click on unit price
2-week3-daysame-day
PRODUCTION Price Matrix - unit price
Qty5-week1-week4-day2-day1-day
25$38.26$52.80$65.04$76.13$107.12$147.29n/an/a
100$14.99$20.69$25.49$29.84$41.98$57.72n/an/a
200$11.12$15.34$18.90$22.12$31.12$42.79n/an/a
NRE =3D $325.00 Test NRE =3D $299.75
Production Board Specs: 6 Layers, 0.062" FR4, Dimensions: 4" x 2.75", Plating: SMOBC, Cu Weight: 1 oz., Trace width/space: 0.006, Smallest hole size: 0.012", Gold Fingers:None, SMDs-top:650, SMDs-bottom: 350, SMD Pitch: 0.015", Sides to solder mask: 2 with LPI, Sides to legend: 1, CNC Route points: 4, Tab Route: No, Scoring: No
Production Tolerances: +/- 0.005"
Terms and Conditions
=B7       Orders placed today are considered day 0 and must be received by 3pm MST.
=B7       Same day orders must be received by 9am & please call us at: 1-800-289-1724 to confirm receipt of order.
=B7       1st Order payment terms are CREDIT CARD or COD. We accept Visa, MasterCard, and AmericanExpress.
=B7       This quote excludes specifications for: controlled dielectric/impedence, inner layers exceeding 1 oz Cu, blind/buried vias, countersinks/bores, plated slots/edges, and any color of mask/legend other than green/white. Please call us.

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-- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 23:44:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18882 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:44:48 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18877; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:44:43 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000329205636.59849.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:44:11 +0200 To: Simon Labrecque From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [Is this a deja vu, or did we already have this discussion ?] At 22:56 +0200 29-03-2000, Simon Labrecque wrote: > I read on the mailing list that there is currently a GPS board in >development; Not quite a board, I want to use a GPS module (like http://www.chapmantech.com/OEM). As it connects thru RS232, you could even connect it to a bare LART. > that would mean that this one is being developed with the low >connector, since it obviously needs a display? I would be highly interested >in that one. I can image applications (such as route logging) that don't require a display. > I would also need an FM receiver. I think the best (but not the less >costy :)) way would be to develop a low-connection board for it, right? Depends, what FM receiver chipset did you have in mind ? >Would it be possible to have the GPS header and the FM receiver on the same >low-connection board? Thanks in advance. GPS needn't have anything to do with the low speed bus, see above. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Mar 29 23:53:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18930 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:53:30 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18926 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:53:30 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA09037; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:53:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:53:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003292153.XAA09037@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mhuang@livetoy.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Debugging blob In-Reply-To: <38E261B9.A1194FD@livetoy.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk (CC-ed to the LART mailinglist because there are other people porting blob to Brutus as well) On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:04:09 -0500, Mark Huang wrote: > I wrote a simple Linux boot loader for my Brutus-like board a long time > ago and have been using it ever since, but I'm getting to the point > where I need to add some more functionality to it. I'm wondering how you > went about debugging blob in the early stages. Right now, I have no > other way to do it besides editing my assembly code, burning it onto the > EEPROM with a programmer, and rebooting, which takes about half an hour. We currently use the procedure described in the README file in the blob distribution (external Flash board). Writing the binary to the internal Flash memory takes about two minutes, so once we got beyond the point that there was evidence that the LART worked at all, debugging was quite easy. We still want to go for a JTAG Flash programmer, so it is will be much easier for others to bootstrap an empty LART. > Is there a way to compile the boot loader as a regular Linux program, > download it to a running Linux session, and have it take over the system > as if it had been run from 0x00000000? I've tried compiling it as ELF32 > and running it, but all it seems to do is corrupt random registers and > crash the Linux session. If I compile it as binary, burn it to EEPROM at > 0x00000000, and reboot, the code runs fine. I can't think of an easy way to compile it as a regular Linux program. The intermediate ELF file looks like a real ELF binary, but it isn't. Even if it was, you couldn't use it, because blob assumes that the MMU is switched off and tries to write to registers which aren't mapped in its memory space. I don't say it's impossible to overcome those problems, but it won't be easy. However, Jim Kasper (jim@blazie.com) found an inventive way to play with blob: write blob to flash, boot the SA-1100 board, tell it to download a kernel, and download a slightly modified version of blob. Type "boot", and blob will jump to the freshly downloaded version in RAM. Play with it until you get bored, reset the board and you're back at the blob in flash. You'll have to modify src/ld-script in such a way that the compiler will put the start address at a different place. I gave Jim two versions of the ld-script which he could try, but I'm not sure which one he used: SECTIONS { . = 0xc0400000; /* KERNEL_RAM_BASE or wherever you want it */ .text : { *(.text) } . = ALIGN(4) .rodata : { *(.rodata) } . = ALIGN(4); .data : { *(.data) } . = ALIGN(4); .got : { *(.got) } } Or: SECTIONS { .text 0xc0400000: { *(.text) } . = ALIGN(4); .rodata : { *(.rodata) } . = ALIGN(4); .data : { *(.data) } . = ALIGN(4); .got : { *(.got) } } I didn't try it; if it doesn't work, you'll find more information in the GNU ld info files. > Anyway, I've taken a look at the blob code and am pretty impressed with > the functionality. Depending on how things go with my boot loader, > I might start hacking on it and submi patches back to you if I find bugs > or add something cool. That would be nice. Here is my blob wish list (which is currently also my To Do list) in no particular order: - Auto memory size determination (and tell the kernel about the results) - Give the command line to the kernel - Memory tester - Ethernet support (boot from bootp+tftp) - Write the flash we're currently running from (make all code real PIC) - Memory settings calculation utility I suggest to join the LART mailinglist because there are other people working on blob. Have a look at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/ for details. (Marc is currently working on the mailing list pages, so if you can't find the majordomo details come back half an hour later or so). Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 00:19:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19019 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:19:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA19015 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:19:44 +0200 Received: from easter.axysdesign.com ([198.172.73.114]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS700HPYFCVR3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:19:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from axysdesign.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by easter.axysdesign.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AD71D780F; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:17:54 -0800 From: Bill Sidhipong Subject: Re: PCB quote from US To: Mike Ingle Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38E28112.D29861D2@axysdesign.com> Organization: AXYS Design, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15pre14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mike Ingle wrote: > - unit price > Qty 5-week 2-week 1-week 4-day 3-day > 25 $38.26 $52.80 $65.04 $76.13 $107.12 > 100 $14.99 $20.69 $25.49 $29.84 $41.98 > 200 $11.12 $15.34 $18.90 $22.12 $31.12 I like 200/{2,5}-week price :) Now, how much are the component cost and assembly going to add to this total? If we can get enough people interested, we could pull this off. -- Bill Sidhipong AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 01:09:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA19298 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 01:09:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA19294 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 01:09:17 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS700JQGHNGVO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 01:09:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:16:03 +0000 (UT) Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id GTS0L6ZA; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:06:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:06:43 -0500 From: Holly Gates Subject: Re: PCB quote from US To: Bill Sidhipong Cc: Mike Ingle , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38E28C83.95A0D201@eink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> <38E28112.D29861D2@axysdesign.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Holy crap, 200 boards is a lot. Even the 25 and 100 prices are really cheap though. I had the LART board quoted at my favorite board house, Sierra Proto Express, and they came in significantly higher on a 2 week turn. I can't say I have been incredibly impressed with Advanced Circuits quality, but if the boards come netlist tested and don't have any serious issues the cheap price is attractive. -Holly Gates Bill Sidhipong wrote: > > Mike Ingle wrote: > > > - unit price > > Qty 5-week 2-week 1-week 4-day 3-day > > 25 $38.26 $52.80 $65.04 $76.13 $107.12 > > 100 $14.99 $20.69 $25.49 $29.84 $41.98 > > 200 $11.12 $15.34 $18.90 $22.12 $31.12 > > I like 200/{2,5}-week price :) Now, how much are the component cost and > assembly going to add to this total? If we can get enough people > interested, we could pull this off. > > -- > Bill Sidhipong > AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 > One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 > Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 02:41:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA19354 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:41:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA19350 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:41:52 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS700M10LXOXN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:41:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:34:24 +1000 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:34:24 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: PCB quote from US In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Mike Ingle Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Can people refrain for HTML only email as I (and I'm sure many others) use text only email clients. Cheers Adam P.S. A JTAG Programmer is on the way, I'm setting it up to worth on multiple platforms with either a AVR micro hanging off a serial port or some sort of minimal hardware hanging off a parallel port. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 03:44:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19526 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:44:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19522 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:43:59 +0200 Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS7000CLOT5DC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:43:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.10.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e2U1c2H24090; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:38:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:39:46 +0000 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: Re: PCB quote from US To: Bill Sidhipong Cc: LART Mailling list Message-id: <38E207A2.CB54A70@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13-7mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> <38E28112.D29861D2@axysdesign.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm interested, but I'd like to purchase assembled boards... does anyone know how much parts & assembly would cost ? Hugues Belanger Tel: 905.973.9400 Bill Sidhipong wrote: > Mike Ingle wrote: > > > - unit price > > Qty 5-week 2-week 1-week 4-day 3-day > > 25 $38.26 $52.80 $65.04 $76.13 $107.12 > > 100 $14.99 $20.69 $25.49 $29.84 $41.98 > > 200 $11.12 $15.34 $18.90 $22.12 $31.12 > > I like 200/{2,5}-week price :) Now, how much are the component cost and > assembly going to add to this total? If we can get enough people > interested, we could pull this off. > > -- > Bill Sidhipong > AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 > One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 > Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 04:13:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19576 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:13:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19572 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:13:24 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f214.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.214]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS700125Q6B5W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:13:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 51495 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:13:12 +0000 Received: from 24.200.14.94 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:13:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:13:12 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330021312.51494.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >[Is this a deja vu, or did we already have this discussion ?] Partly. I posted a follow-up to the mail you posted, but it never got answered... sorry about all that. Let me tell you about the project I'm in. We want to make a car multimedia system; same size as a standard radio (the standard is called EuroDin, I think), but with the same capabilities as a PDA and some more features: mp3 decoding (of course :)) with visual, FM receiver, web browsing, email, music organisation (playlists, hotlists...), limited voice recognition (for starting an application, starting a playlist...), visualisation of the music... A ~6in colour LCD wil be included, too. The KSB offers almost all I need. However, FM and the GPS receiver lacks. As I want the customers to chose if they want them (that is, maybe the custommers won't need or want the FM receiver or GPS header), they need to be kind of 'plug-in'. One thing I want to say, just to make it clear, is that I don't want the actual GPS in the player; just the header, that is, the interface that talks to the actual GPS. But if some can connects direclty thru RS232, like you said, that's gonna be perfect, since no additional hardware will need to be designed. I currently have no chip for the FM receiver in mind; I just know what I want it to support: full RDS and RBDS capability. I was in the process of finding a company to design a StrongARM board with all those specs for me when I heard of the LART. If I could use it, it would sure save a lot of money :) Full credit would be given to it, and to the guys behind it, of course. So, all this stuff sounds possible? Simon >Not quite a board, I want to use a GPS module (like >http://www.chapmantech.com/OEM). As it connects thru RS232, you >could even >connect it to a bare LART. > > that would mean that this one is being developed with the low > >connector, since it obviously needs a display? I would be highly >interested > >in that one. > >I can image applications (such as route logging) that don't require a >display. > > > I would also need an FM receiver. I think the best (but not the less > >costy :)) way would be to develop a low-connection board for it, right? > >Depends, what FM receiver chipset did you have in mind ? > > >Would it be possible to have the GPS header and the FM receiver on the >same > >low-connection board? Thanks in advance. > >GPS needn't have anything to do with the low speed bus, see above. > >JDB. > >-- >They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may >be slow, but he'll eventually get them. > -- Matthew Lammers in ASR > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 04:36:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19619 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:36:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19615 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:36:52 +0200 Received: from email.ancore.com (host13.ancore.com [204.118.176.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS7000OER9FLG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:36:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sweety (adsl-63-193-113-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.113.118]) by email.ancore.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id G10N19MY; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:33:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:34:12 -0800 From: Mike Ingle work Subject: Re: PCB quote from US To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <00ab01bf99f0$b70370c0$7671c13f@local.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <4.2.0.58.20000329125407.00a3c3c0@email.ancore.com> <38E28112.D29861D2@axysdesign.com> <38E207A2.CB54A70@cgocable.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Greg Fountain is looking into this according to previous post. In fact I only posted the advanced circuits quote for his/ or any one elses interest. I also would prefer to buy assembled boards/kit, although I will assemble my own if need be. Mike PS my apology regarding the quote in HTML, I simply copied it from their web site quickly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugues Belanger To: Bill Sidhipong Cc: LART Mailling list Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 5:39 AM Subject: Re: PCB quote from US > I'm interested, but I'd like to purchase assembled boards... does anyone know > how much parts & assembly would cost ? > > Hugues Belanger > > Tel: 905.973.9400 > > > Bill Sidhipong wrote: > > > Mike Ingle wrote: > > > > > - unit price > > > Qty 5-week 2-week 1-week 4-day 3-day > > > 25 $38.26 $52.80 $65.04 $76.13 $107.12 > > > 100 $14.99 $20.69 $25.49 $29.84 $41.98 > > > 200 $11.12 $15.34 $18.90 $22.12 $31.12 > > > > I like 200/{2,5}-week price :) Now, how much are the component cost and > > assembly going to add to this total? If we can get enough people > > interested, we could pull this off. > > > > -- > > Bill Sidhipong > > AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 7539663 > > One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 7539661 > > Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: bs@axysdesign.com > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 04:46:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19635 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:46:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19631 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:46:52 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS700154RQ3LF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:46:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA15868 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:46:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:46:49 -0500 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff In-reply-to: "Your message of Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:13:12 PST." <20000330021312.51494.qmail@hotmail.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200003300246.VAA15868@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Simon, > Let me tell you about the project I'm in. We want to make a car multimedia > system; same size as a standard radio (the standard is called EuroDin, I > think), but with the same capabilities as a PDA and some more features: mp3 > decoding (of course :)) with visual, FM receiver, web browsing, email, music > organisation (playlists, hotlists...), limited voice recognition (for > starting an application, starting a playlist...), visualisation of the > music... A ~6in colour LCD wil be included, too. This sounds a lot like the empeg-car: http://www.empeg.com/ It is also StrongARM-based, which is actually how I came to be interested in LART. (I am currently experimenting with some GPS and CDPD support for the empeg.) > So, all this stuff sounds possible? Not only should it be possible, I'd be very interested either to help you or to watch your progress. However, I admit I am not much of a hardware person. LART interests me because I might be able to learn something about real hardware details, at least perhaps as a possible pet project. On the other hand, I have written a fixed-point implementation of an MPEG audio (MP3) decoder from scratch which runs brilliantly on the SA-1100. Do you have a web site or mailing list for your project? Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 06:40:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20288 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:40:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20284 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:40:00 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f180.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS7003K5WYM4J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:39:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 97877 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:39:48 +0000 Received: from 24.200.14.94 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330043948.97876.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >This sounds a lot like the empeg-car: > > http://www.empeg.com/ > Yes, I know. The Empeg is a GREAT product. I remember reading the web page of Hugo about his car mp3 player; I've been working (or thinking :)) of a commercial player like that from that day (but don't we all do? :)) >(I am currently experimenting with some GPS and CDPD support for the >empeg.) That sounds cool. Could I have more details? >Not only should it be possible, I'd be very interested either to help >you >or >to watch your progress. Be sure that I'll remember that one :) Hehe. I'll probably try to put up some sort of web page for my project; I just don't know when. The more rapidly the better of course :) Until that time, i'll try to keep you in touch. > >However, I admit I am not much of a hardware person. LART interests >me >because >I might be able to learn something about real hardware details, at >least >perhaps as a possible pet project. I'm more of a software type myself, too. I never even thought about designing such a board as the LART; I was going to make a company design it for me when I found it. I'm glad I did, I'm just so sure that it could be used for my project! >On the other hand, I have written a fixed-point implementation of an >MPEG >audio (MP3) decoder from scratch which runs brilliantly on the >SA-1100. My software currently use XAudio (www.xaudio.com) as it supports the ARM natively; however, i still had no chance of testing my code on an ARM processor, so I don't know yet how good it performs. >Do you have a web site or mailing list for your project? Not for now, like I said. Hope I will soon :) Simon P.S.: Could someone tell me what I'm doing wrong when replying messages? When I reply the message is not indexed to the thread, it creates a new one... I just hit reply then change the email address for the LART mailing list address. What's wrong? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 06:42:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20303 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:42:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20299 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:42:56 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f316.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.191]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS7003LYX3J4J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:42:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 72561 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:42:44 +0000 Received: from 24.200.14.94 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:42:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:42:44 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330044244.72560.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Salut Simon, Bien le boujour Hugues :) >I have a friend who as been interested in producing the same thing, >he has >been involve with local engineers in design a mp3 codec chip. >I forworded >this e-mail to him I'm sure you will hear from him That's very cool :) Be sure that I really appreciate it. >Au revoir... À la prochaine :) Simon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 06:45:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20318 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:45:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20314 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:45:07 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f269.hotmail.com [216.32.180.227]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS70030IX76NT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:45:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 43457 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:44:55 +0000 Received: from 195.197.15.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:44:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:44:55 +0100 (EEST) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: Re: PCB quote from US To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330044455.43456.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.15.62] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We are interested in too. Greg, what is the situation? Mika >From: Mike Ingle work >To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Subject: Re: PCB quote from US >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:34:12 -0800 > >Greg Fountain is looking into this according to previous post. In fact I >only posted the advanced circuits quote for his/ or any one elses interest. >I also would prefer to buy assembled boards/kit, although I will assemble >my >own if need be. > >Mike >PS my apology regarding the quote in HTML, I simply copied it from their >web site quickly. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Hugues Belanger >To: Bill Sidhipong >Cc: LART Mailling list >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 5:39 AM >Subject: Re: PCB quote from US > > > > I'm interested, but I'd like to purchase assembled boards... does anyone >know > > how much parts & assembly would cost ? > > > > Hugues Belanger > > > > Tel: 905.973.9400 > > > > > > Bill Sidhipong wrote: > > > > > Mike Ingle wrote: > > > > > > > - unit price > > > > Qty 5-week 2-week 1-week 4-day 3-day > > > > 25 $38.26 $52.80 $65.04 $76.13 $107.12 > > > > 100 $14.99 $20.69 $25.49 $29.84 $41.98 > > > > 200 $11.12 $15.34 $18.90 $22.12 $31.12 > > > > > > I like 200/{2,5}-week price :) Now, how much are the component cost >and > > > assembly going to add to this total? If we can get enough people > > > interested, we could pull this off. > > > > > > -- > > > Bill Sidhipong > > > AXYS Design Automation, Inc. Telephone: +1 949 >7539663 > > > One Technology Drive Fax: +1 949 >7539661 > > > Building i-807, Irvine CA 92618 mailto: >bs@axysdesign.com > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 07:02:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20356 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:02:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20352 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:02:15 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f310.hotmail.com [209.185.131.14]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS70033EXZQT7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:02:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 74240 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:02:03 +0000 Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:02:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:02:03 -0800 (PST) From: chaman bagga Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330050203.74239.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Thanks for all the replies that I have got. From the discussion it appears that the keyboard and mouse connectors on the usb line. Wouldn't it be better to use the serial ports of SA1100 to connect a standard so called AT keyboard and a PS2 mouse? Any pointers to existing circuits? (Eg. http://www.beyondlogic.org/ ) Regards, Chaman. >From: "Gennadiy M. Kurtsman" >To: "chaman bagga" , >Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse >Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:26:54 +0400 > >This configuration is workable but you need in special PC software driver, >retranslating keyboard/mouse data to SA1100. >GK. > >-----Original Message----- >From: chaman bagga >To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl >Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 2:04 PM >Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse > > > > > >That implies SA1100 cannot read directly from keyboard/mouse. Only when >it > >is connected to PC's host usb port, the data can be transferred first to >PC > >which can then transfer it to SA1100 USB port.. am I right? > > > >Regards, > >Chaman Bagga. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 07:10:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20380 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:10:36 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20376 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:10:35 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05165; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:10:32 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200003300510.HAA05165@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: agarwal_@hotmail.com (Simon Labrecque) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:10:32 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <20000330043948.97876.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Simon Labrecque" at Mar 29, 2000 08:39:48 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Simon, > P.S.: Could someone tell me what I'm doing wrong when replying messages? > When I reply the message is not indexed to the thread, it creates a new > one... I just hit reply then change the email address for the LART mailing > list address. What's wrong? Is there maybe an option to do a group reply? As it is, there are no In-Reply-To or References headers in your posts. And trust me, I've looked for them: I just finished the code for the mailing list pages on www.lart.tudelft.nl. This is a typical header for one of your posts: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330043948.97876.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Ah, maybe that explains something :) The other posts originating from hotmail start a new thread as well. It will probably work in the next version... -- Marc e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? __ __^__ __________ | \ +---/ \---+ (==========) |____\___________ +---\_____/---+ // >____)| | \__ \ \______//___ >/ |________| \ [ _____\ |____________________\ \_______/ Roger, go at throttle up CHR$(32), the final frontier ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 07:27:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20464 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:27:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20460 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:27:28 +0200 Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS7003F2Z5SR2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:27:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from agmaincpu ([24.200.14.94]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FS70046MYUH50@falla.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:20:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:24:56 -0500 From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000801bf9a08$4dc168c0$5e0ec818@videotron.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_gcwxnvI2HtLfMTojTGs9Vg)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_gcwxnvI2HtLfMTojTGs9Vg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Ok. I'll 'try' :) to use my normal mail account when I'm home, as I'm = sure having a new thread for each post I make is really annoying for = everybody. I make public excuses for that, guys. Simon Is there maybe an option to do a group reply? As it is, there are no In-Reply-To or References headers in your posts. And trust me, I've = looked for them: I just finished the code for the mailing list pages on www.lart.tudelft.nl. This is a typical header for one of your posts: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330043948.97876.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Ah, maybe that explains something :) The other posts originating = from hotmail start a new thread as well. It will probably work in the next version... --Boundary_(ID_gcwxnvI2HtLfMTojTGs9Vg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
Ok. I'll 'try' :) to use my normal mail = account=20 when I'm home, as I'm sure having a new thread for each post I make is = really=20 annoying for everybody. I make public excuses for that, = guys.
 
Simon
 
  Is there maybe an option to do = a group=20 reply? As it is, there are no
In-Reply-To or References headers in = your=20 posts. And trust me, I've looked
for them: I just finished the code = for the=20 mailing list pages on
www.lart.tudelft.nl. This is a = typical=20 header for one of your posts:
 
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 -0800 = (PST)
From: Simon Labrecque <agarwal_@hotmail.com>
Subj= ect:=20 Re: GPS and other stuff
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Message-= id:=20 <20000330043948.978= 76.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-version:=20 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed
X-Originating-IP:=20 [24.200.14.94]
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl=
Precedence:=20 bulk
 
>=20 ______________________________________________________
> Get = Your=20 Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
 
  Ah, maybe that explains = something :) The=20 other posts originating from
hotmail start a new thread as well. It = will=20 probably work in the = next
version...
--Boundary_(ID_gcwxnvI2HtLfMTojTGs9Vg)-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 07:58:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20560 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:58:24 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20556 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:58:23 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05364; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:58:22 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200003300558.HAA05364@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: orb2000@videotron.ca (Simon Labrecque) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:58:22 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <000801bf9a08$4dc168c0$5e0ec818@videotron.ca> from "Simon Labrecque" at Mar 30, 2000 12:24:56 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Simon, > Ok. I'll 'try' :) to use my normal mail account when I'm home, as I'm = > sure having a new thread for each post I make is really annoying for = > everybody. I make public excuses for that, guys. [snip pages of multipart M$-html] Please do... it's getting worse by the minute :) -- Marc e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? __ __^__ __________ | \ +---/ \---+ (==========) |____\___________ +---\_____/---+ // >____)| | \__ \ \______//___ >/ |________| \ [ _____\ |____________________\ \_______/ Roger, go at throttle up CHR$(32), the final frontier ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 08:41:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20649 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:41:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20645 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:41:14 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS80061W2KO2R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:41:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA16525 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 01:39:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 01:39:09 -0500 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff In-reply-to: "Your message of Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:39:48 PST." <20000330043948.97876.qmail@hotmail.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200003300639.BAA16525@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Yes, I know. The Empeg is a GREAT product. I remember reading the web page > of Hugo about his car mp3 player; I've been working (or thinking :)) of a > commercial player like that from that day (but don't we all do? :)) It is a great product. Hugo et al. have done an exceptional job. >> (I am currently experimenting with some GPS and CDPD support for the >> empeg.) > > That sounds cool. Could I have more details? I'm using a combined GPS/CDPD unit with a serial interface; it speaks PPP. The GPS data is obtained via simple UDP exchange. http://www.airlink.com/info/pin_mkt.html It's very nice, but not cheap; the retail price is $925 including GPS antenna, power cord, and mounting bracket. However, if interested I can obtain units at a discount. > Be sure that I'll remember that one :) Hehe. I'll probably try to put up > some sort of web page for my project; I just don't know when. The more > rapidly the better of course :) Until that time, i'll try to keep you in > touch. Great, thanks much. > My software currently use XAudio (www.xaudio.com) as it supports the ARM > natively; however, i still had no chance of testing my code on an ARM > processor, so I don't know yet how good it performs. FWIW, the empeg is also using Xaudio. If you prefer, you're welcome to use my code; it's released under GPL. The Layer III decoding is presently slower than Xaudio's decoder, but there are specific optimizations I haven't completed yet. Layer II decoding is presently *faster* than Xaudio (and both layers share the same CPU-intensive subband synthesis routine...) Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 10:29:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20854 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:29:19 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20850 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:29:18 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA11552; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:29:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:29:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003300829.KAA11552@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: agarwal_@hotmail.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff In-Reply-To: <20000330044244.72560.qmail@hotmail.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:42:44 -0800 (PST), Simon Labrecque wrote: >>I have a friend who as been interested in producing the same thing, >he has >>been involve with local engineers in design a mp3 codec chip. >I forworded >>this e-mail to him I'm sure you will hear from him > > That's very cool :) Be sure that I really appreciate it. It's certainly very cool, but I'm a bit confused: what is meant by the word "codec"? In the strict sense it means "encoder plus decoder", but quite often people just mean "decoder". If it is just a decoder: Nicolas Pitre released a fixed point version of splay[1] that runs at about 4% CPU time on a Netwinder. The gain of using an mp3 decoder chip is very little compared to the software solution. If it is also an encoder, I can see that there is something to win, although I think the SA-1100 is fast enough to do at least layer 2 compression. Don't underestimate the SA-1100 speed! To give an example of the SA-1100 speed: We have done H.263 video decoding at 15 frames per second without optimizing the decoder. As this is a memory intensive process, a lot of speed can be gained by keeping the data cache hot. Another example: A carefully implemented (read: hand coded) DFT implementation running on a 220MHz SA-1100 is almost as fast as a 60MHz Shark DSP (correct me if I'm wrong, JDB). Erik [1] Get it at ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ -- "people are still using Win98? Wow... VMS i could understand, but WinXX - that's just so passe..." -- Paul Jakma on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 10:56:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20958 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:56:30 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20954 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:56:29 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA11648; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:45:58 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:45:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003300845.KAA11648@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: chamanbagga@hotmail.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: usb keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <20000330050203.74239.qmail@hotmail.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:02:03 -0800 (PST), chaman bagga wrote: > Thanks for all the replies that I have got. >>From the discussion it appears that the keyboard and mouse connectors on the > usb line. > Wouldn't it be better to use the serial ports of SA1100 to connect a > standard so called AT keyboard and a PS2 mouse? I think you misunderstood. It is not possible to connect USB keyboards and mouses directly to the SA-1100 simply because it is a USB client and not a USB master. The trick with a PC USB master forwarding all keyboard and mouse data to the SA-1100 also fails because of the silicon errors in the SA-1100. However, the KSB has an AT keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface implemented in one of the Lattice CPLDs, have a look at page 2 of the KSB schematics. For even more evidence that the connectors really exist ;-), have look at the KSB picture: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/gallery/ksb-back.jpg There is no need to use a serial port for keyboard/mouse, although you're free to do so. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 17:08:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22076 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:08:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22072 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:08:03 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f67.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.67]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FS800J1WQ1DVY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:08:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 80527 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:41:10 +0000 Received: from 206.167.109.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:41:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:41:10 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000330144110.80526.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [206.167.109.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [Mass reply, since I'm not home and don't want to create 39 threads again :)] Marc: >Hi Simon, >>Ok. I'll 'try' :) to use my normal mail account when I'm home, as >>I'm = >>sure having a new thread for each post I make is really annoying >>for = >>everybody. I make public excuses for that, guys. > [snip pages of multipart M$-html] > > Please do... it's getting worse by the minute :) Yeah I know... I've sent this one using Outlook, but it was set with HTML and MIME. It's now set to plain text. It should *finally* be alright. I promise :) Rob: >I'm using a combined GPS/CDPD unit with a serial interface; it speaks >PPP. >The GPS data is obtained via simple UDP exchange. > http://www.airlink.com/info/pin_mkt.html >It's very nice, but not cheap; the retail price is $925 including GPS > >antenna, power cord, and mounting bracket. However, if interested I >can >obtain units at a discount. This thing is sure nice! However, I would like to make the internet connection of my project thru a cellular phone that directly supports it; I think those communicate with RS232 too. Is there some *cheap* GPS that connects thru RS232 beside that one? (Just to know if it would be a good way to procede for connecting a GPS to my project). >FWIW, the empeg is also using Xaudio. Yes, it does. >If you prefer, you're welcome to use my code; it's released under >GPL. The >Layer III decoding is presently slower than Xaudio's decoder, but >there >are specific optimizations I haven't completed yet. Layer II >decoding is >presently *faster* than Xaudio (and both layers share the >same >CPU-intensive subband synthesis routine...) I'll sure look into it once I get my testing board. Erik: >>I have a friend who as been interested in producing the same thing, >>he >>has >>been involve with local engineers in design a mp3 codec chip. >I >> >>forworded >>this e-mail to him I'm sure you will hear from him >>>That's very cool :) Be sure that I really appreciate it. >It's certainly very cool, but I'm a bit confused: what is meant by >word >"codec"? In the strict sense it means "encoder plus decoder", >but quite >often people just mean "decoder". >If it is just a decoder: Nicolas Pitre released a fixed point version >of >splay[1] that runs at about 4% CPU time on a Netwinder. The gain >of using >an mp3 decoder chip is very little compared to the software >solution. I agree with you. After thinking about it: I don't want an mp3 decoder chip, since I want to be able to easily add new standards as they arrive (ie: MP4?). That would not be possible if the decoding is done in hardware. The performance you mention about splay is very impressive. Does someone knows how good the XAudio lib performs under an ARM? >If it is also an encoder, I can see that there is something to win, >although I think the SA-1100 is fast enough to do at least layer 2 >compression. Don't underestimate the SA-1100 speed! Same argument as above here. Anyways, since the easiest way of transferring files (mp3) to my project would be to connect it to a PC (any opinions here guys?), the compression should be done there. Please be sure that I don't underestimate the SA-1100; however, I've not had a chance to test one by now. I hope it will change soon :) >To give an example of the SA-1100 speed: We have done H.263 video >decoding >at 15 frames per second without optimizing the decoder. As this is a >memory intensive process, a lot of speed can be gained by keeping the >data >cache hot. >Another example: A carefully implemented (read: hand coded) DFT >implementation running on a 220MHz SA-1100 is almost as fast as a >60MHz >Shark DSP (correct me if I'm wrong, JDB). Very impressive. I like hearing about applications and performances of this processor :) Thanks for for the help! Simon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 18:24:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22245 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:24:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22241 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:24:00 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS8002I2TJZW0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:24:00 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:15:09 -0500 (EST) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: GPS and other stuff In-reply-to: <200003300639.BAA16525@deimos.mars.org> To: Rob Leslie Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > FWIW, the empeg is also using Xaudio. > > If you prefer, you're welcome to use my code; it's released under GPL. The > Layer III decoding is presently slower than Xaudio's decoder, but there are > specific optimizations I haven't completed yet. Layer II decoding is presently > *faster* than Xaudio (and both layers share the same CPU-intensive subband > synthesis routine...) Where is your code? I hacked splay about a year ago for fixed point math support. Layer III is also slower than xaudio, but carefully listening to xaudio quality seemed like if they were cheating a little on channel balancing. Maybe we could share our work? Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 19:04:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22356 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:04:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22352 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:04:24 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS8004KKVFAL5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:04:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA18541 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 From: Rob Leslie Subject: MPEG audio decoding In-reply-to: "Your message of Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:15:09 EST." To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200003301700.MAA18541@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> If you prefer, you're welcome to use my code; it's released under GPL. The >> Layer III decoding is presently slower than Xaudio's decoder, but there are >> specific optimizations I haven't completed yet. Layer II decoding is >> presently *faster* than Xaudio (and both layers share the same >> CPU-intensive subband synthesis routine...) > > Where is your code? http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ > I hacked splay about a year ago for fixed point math support. Layer III > is also slower than xaudio, but carefully listening to xaudio quality > seemed like if they were cheating a little on channel balancing. > Maybe we could share our work? I'd be interested in this. I looked for fixed-point implementations before I started this project but couldn't find any that suited my needs. (I didn't know about splay -- nice work.) I don't know about "channel balancing" but I did discover that the Xaudio decoder has a problem decoding bitstreams encoded with both M/S and intensity joint stereo. The effect of this is a rapidly fading-in/out sound on the right channel with certain bitstreams. Apparently Xaudio is not alone; many decoders (and encoders) handle M/S + intensity inconsistently. Even the ISO reference source goes against the standard, which may be how so many implementations came to have this problem. I suspect it will be possible to make my code run at least as fast as the Xaudio decoder for all layers on the StrongARM. At the moment it definitely requires less memory. -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 19:53:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22668 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:53:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22664 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:53:13 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS8006FNXONUC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:53:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.104) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:43:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:36:35 -0800 From: Derek Lassen Subject: GPS cheaper X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000330091357.00ae2900@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I just joined this list, so I am not sure if you want boards or pods. Time Line Inc.. has the Rockwell Jupiter GPS board for $69. See http://www.digisys.net/timeline/arrival.html (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 20:20:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22765 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:20:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22761 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:20:37 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS8007DLYYAX8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:20:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id KAA601901 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:15:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:15:30 -0800 From: Greg Fountain Subject: PC Board Gerbers & FAB To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38E399C2.F54B1FF@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------943C514B4804ADC933914624" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------943C514B4804ADC933914624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I plugged the Rev 3 Mainboard Gerber Files into my viewer here and came up with a few things that I would like someone else to double check. In particular those layers that are marked with the "Need Second Opinion" Please let me know, I don't want to send the files out for FAB if there are labeling or incorrect polarity problems. Nothing worse than getting your boards back and finding there is an open or dead short on the power and ground planes because you inverted a layer by accident. Assumption: To avoid the possibility of confusing the PC Board fabricator, all Gerber file should be of the same polarity (either + or -) Requiring a mix of the two increases the chances of a PC Board fab shop mistake on one of the layers. Layers were reviewed using GC-Prevew V8.1.2 Gerber files below were produced from the LARTdist-0_95.tar distribution ===================================== File Name ;My own personal comments l1_mask.gbr ;Top layer solder mask ;Looks like about a 0.002" setback from pad edge ;Should be OK l1_neg.gbr ;Looks strange ! :Neg Image of Core power plane?? ;Need a second opinion !!! l1_pos.gbr ;Looks Good (normal Positive Image) ;Top layer Pads and Traces ;Xtal foot prints mistake was corrected l1_silk.gbr ;Top side of board silk screen ;Looks Good l2_neg.gbr ;3.3 Volt Power Plane? ;Contains thermal relief pads ;Need Positive of this if the ;entire set is to be positive images? ;Need a second opinion !!! l2_pos.gbr ;3.3 Volt Power Plane? ;Note NO THERMAL RELIEFS ;Need Second opinion !!! l3_neg.gbr ;Solid sheet of copper ;No Pads or Traces ;Need Second opinion !!! l3_pos.gbr ;Layer 3 signal lines ;Positive Image ;Looks good l4_neg.gbr ;negative image of Core Power Plane? ;Need second opinion !!! l4_pos.gbr ;Positive image of layer 4 inner traces ;Looks good l5_neg.gbr ;Negative image of system ground plane ;Layer 5 label visible ;Contains thermal relief's on ground pins ;Should this be a + image if we want ;The same image polarity (+) on the entire set? ;Need second opinion !!! l5_pos.gbr ;Negative of 3.3 V Ground Plane with no ;Thermal reliefs? ; need second opinion? l6_silk.gbr ; Bottom side side solder mask ;Looks good l6_neg.gbr ;Negative of ARM core power Plane??? ;Need second opinion !!! l6_pos.gbr ;Positive image of the traces and pads on ;the bottom side of the board ;Looks good l6_silk.gbr ;Positive image of the bottom side silk screen ;Looks Good ======================================== Greg Fountain Menlo Park, California USA --------------943C514B4804ADC933914624 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------943C514B4804ADC933914624-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 20:48:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22868 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:48:58 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22862; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:48:54 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E399C2.F54B1FF@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:48:28 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PC Board Gerbers & FAB Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Assumption: >To avoid the possibility of confusing the PC Board fabricator, all >Gerber file should be of the same polarity (either + or -) Requiring a >mix of the two increases the chances of a PC Board fab shop mistake on >one of the layers. Nope. One layer can be constructed from multiple Gerber files. The general cases are one Gerber (regular) or two Gerbers, one negative and one positive. Traditionally the pos + neg Gerbers were combined photographically, these days it's done electronically. There is the possibility in extended Gerber (RS274X) to combine both positive and negative into one file, though. All copper layers in LART are composed by overlaying l[x]_pos.gbr and l[x]_neg.gbr. >===================================== >File Name ;My own personal comments > >l1_mask.gbr ;Top layer solder mask > ;Looks like about a 0.002" setback from pad edge > ;Should be OK > >l1_neg.gbr ;Looks strange ! > :Neg Image of Core power plane?? > ;Need a second opinion !!! See above. >l2_neg.gbr ;3.3 Volt Power Plane? > ;Contains thermal relief pads > ;Need Positive of this if the > ;entire set is to be positive images? > ;Need a second opinion !!! > >l2_pos.gbr ;3.3 Volt Power Plane? > ;Note NO THERMAL RELIEFS Not for vias, no. >l5_neg.gbr ;Negative image of system ground plane > ;Layer 5 label visible > ;Contains thermal relief's on ground pins > ;Should this be a + image if we want > ;The same image polarity (+) on the entire set? There's no reason to have the same polarity in the entire set. Here's a suggested preview procedure: - load all Gerbers into gcprevue - mark all Gerbers that have 'neg' in the name as negative - view all combos l[x]_pos.gbr and l[x]_neg.gbr as an overlay, with 'pos' on top - iff this doesn't match the image in l[x].ps, panic. As I said in the README, it is wise to print all .ps files and send them to the board house as a way of saying 'this is how I want them'. JDB [happily running two LARTs generated from the .gbr files in the archive] -- Remember, when you pull his pin, Mr. Hand Grenade stops being your friend. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Mar 30 20:59:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22944 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:59:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22940 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:59:37 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS9009810RBU0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:59:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id H98Y7JWK; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:50:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:57:12 -0800 From: Varek Subject: Prefab boards To: LART list Message-id: <38E3A388.B23DDCCA@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Most lists I've been on like you introduce yourself so - hello, my name is Varek. I only just found this project a couple of weeks ago and find it very interesting, but from a SW perspective. In other words I'm interested in pre-fabbed boards if they are available - specifically the MB and the KSB. The level of my interest will, of course, depend on the final price. Anyone have any figures (even rough) for this yet? Can anyone tell me (or estimate) what the cost of the parts list is (in $US)? Thanx much and keep up the good work! Also, great pics on the site. I'd love to see more! Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 01:31:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24605 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:31:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24601 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:31:46 +0200 Received: from fermi.eeel.nist.gov (fermi.eeel.nist.gov [129.6.185.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS900KGBDCX1R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:31:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from mclay@localhost) by fermi.eeel.nist.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07980; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:33:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:33:26 -0500 (EST) From: Michael McLay Subject: collaboration proposal In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Lart Mail Server Cc: DieterBergman@ipc.org, RKorchak@mep.nist.gov, Dino Ditta Message-id: <14564.102.26787.240089@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <38E399C2.F54B1FF@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Proposal for a Short Production Run of LART Assemblies The IPC (http://www.ipc.org/) has developed GenCAM as a replacement for gerber, drill files, netlists, assembly drawings, etc. A GenCAM file can hold the complete description of a PCB/PCA as well as panels, fixtures, and test configurations. The core document of the GenCAM standard is IPC-2511. Th 198 page specification is available at http://www.gencam.org/cdrom2000/standards/ipc2511_1.5.9.pdf. The IPC-2511 is just one block in the IPC 2500 series. Another standard will define a virtual factory protocol for communications between OEMs and EMSs. A goal of the GenCAM standards is to reduce the one-time engineering costs of setting up for the manufacture of boards and assemblies. This is precisely the NRE cost problem faced by the LART community. Another goal of GenCAM is to lower the costs and the risks associated with engineering change orders. LART faces these problem as well. Different daughter boards will be used in future production runs, parts will be changed out, and revised designs of the main board will occur. The IPC Data Transfer Solutions committee is ready to start testing the file formats and protocols. The committee has plans for developing a demonstration board for GenCAM. The LART design and user requirements could fill this role. LART is a good choice because the size is relatively small and has relatively inexpensive parts. The GenCAM file supports the representation of multi-board assemblies and test fixturing so including daughter boards in a design file could be used to demonstrate panel definitions. Having identified LART as a good test vehicle the next step is to determine if there is an interest in a collaborative arrangement between potential purchaser of LART assemblies. Please let me know if you would be interested in participating in this virtual prototyping experiment. The trick to making this project work will be in coordinating the testing activities of the ICM project with the production needs of LART "customers". The ICM project would manage the production of the assemblies and LART users would get the assemblies (We would need to work out the details, but I assume the assemblies would be made available at cost of the materials from the manufacturers.) The ICM project and IPC will help arrange for the production as part of the testing process for the protocols. Some thought will have to be given to minimizing the delays as we work out the bugs in the process. The first test would be designed to demonstrate the use of the GenCAM file format. A batch of LART assemblies would be produced by converting the LART design files to the GenCAM file format. J.D. Bakker writes: > The current LART design is in EDWin (an obscure Win16-based package). I'm > not too sure if there's a workable way to export to OrCAD/Protel/whatever. > > JDB. Are the EDWin files available. The CAMCAD converter from Router Solutions (http://www.rsi-inc.com/) may be able to transfer the design to the GenCAM format. There are many details that would have to be worked out. Before committing to the project we need to determine if it is likely to produce the desired results. please let me know if you think this project is worth pursuing. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 01:49:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24651 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:49:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24647 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:49:10 +0200 Received: from mail.nulec.com.au ([203.102.220.26]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS900KBCE5WRK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:49:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by MAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:46:51 +1000 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:46:47 +1000 From: Robert Barnes Subject: RE: collaboration proposal To: "'Michael McLay'" Cc: "Lart Mail Server (E-mail)" Message-id: <1072F1A27E99D3119747005004B9A3803EDF38@MAIL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Michael, I am prepared to commit to 3 LART boards or boards to the value of $USD900 (whichever is cheapest). I would also commit to an equal number of Kitchen Sink Boards if available. Regards, Rob Barnes -----Original Message----- From: Michael McLay [mailto:mclay@nist.gov] Sent: Friday, 31 March 2000 11:33 To: J.D. Bakker Cc: Lart Mail Server; DieterBergman@ipc.org; RKorchak@mep.nist.gov; Dino Ditta Subject: collaboration proposal Proposal for a Short Production Run of LART Assemblies [snipped] -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 02:13:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA24764 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:13:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA24760 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:13:23 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FS900L24FA9OD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:13:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id QAA722556 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:08:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:08:04 -0800 From: Greg Fountain Subject: [Fwd: PC Board Gerbers & FAB] To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38E3EC64.F63FE506@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8C0710297E16E3D832FDD70E" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8C0710297E16E3D832FDD70E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------8C0710297E16E3D832FDD70E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <38E3EB30.11A69517@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:02:57 -0800 From: Greg Fountain Reply-To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Organization: Telvex X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PC Board Gerbers & FAB References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B68D56B6DCBD5FDD6AD752CC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B68D56B6DCBD5FDD6AD752CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J.D. I merged the gerber layers as you suggested and they look much better. I didn't have a postscript printer handy to dump the images on so I had not actually viewed the *.ps files prior to my earlier e-mail. I was wondering what is the advantage of using multiple files to produce a single layer of copper? Just off the top of my head it would seem that a single file per layer would be a lot simpler. If it's of value to anyone I've converted all the postscript Gerber files to PDFs (so that they may now be viewed with a web browser). Let me know if their is any interest in getting copies in Adobe PDF format. Looking at the mainboard bottom side Photograph I didn't happen to see any copper pour area under the StrongARM processor. Was this added in Rev 3. or am I reading the layer or photo incorrectly? Have you noticed how close some of the pad & trace clearances are to the copper pour areas? (Layers 1 & 6) If you take a close look at C10 and C1 on the bottom side for example the via to pour clearance is only about 0.003" and T3's connecting via has a pad to copper pour clearance of about 0.001" Do you think this might cause problems if the boards exhibits any degree of incomplete etching during fabrication? It would appear that the board was either hand routed or used in conjunction with a grid based router ... is this correct? Greg "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > >Assumption: > >To avoid the possibility of confusing the PC Board fabricator, all > >Gerber file should be of the same polarity (either + or -) Requiring a > >mix of the two increases the chances of a PC Board fab shop mistake on > >one of the layers. > > Nope. > > One layer can be constructed from multiple Gerber files. The general cases > are one Gerber (regular) or two Gerbers, one negative and one positive. > Traditionally the pos + neg Gerbers were combined photographically, these > days it's done electronically. There is the possibility in extended Gerber > (RS274X) to combine both positive and negative into one file, though. --------------B68D56B6DCBD5FDD6AD752CC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------B68D56B6DCBD5FDD6AD752CC-- --------------8C0710297E16E3D832FDD70E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------8C0710297E16E3D832FDD70E-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 03:09:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA24905 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:09:55 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA24900; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:09:51 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E3EC64.F63FE506@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:09:24 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PC Board Gerbers & FAB Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Greg, >I was wondering what is the advantage of using multiple files to produce a >single layer of copper? Just off the top of my head it would seem that a >single >file per layer would be a lot simpler. That's true, but it so happens that my CAD tools produces two files. I'm contemplating merging the two files into one RS274X file; OTOH that may introduce errors, and I *know* that the two-file approach works. In other words: I prefer a clumsy method over one that might cause bugs. >If it's of value to anyone I've converted all the postscript Gerber files to >PDFs (so that they may now be viewed with a web browser). Let me know if their >is any interest in getting copies in Adobe PDF format. Creating one big PDF is om my list, as is adding correct PostScript headers to the PS files so that Illustrator stops complaining about them. >Looking at the mainboard bottom side Photograph I didn't happen to see any >copper pour area under the StrongARM processor. Was this added in Rev 3. or am >I reading the layer or photo incorrectly? You're reading the (Rev1) photo just fine, the copper pour was added for the Rev3 PCB (to shield the audio section on the KSB). > Have you noticed how close some of >the pad & trace clearances are to the copper pour areas? (Layers 1 & 6) >If you >take a close look at C10 and C1 on the bottom side for example the via to pour >clearance is only about 0.003" and T3's connecting via has a pad to copper >pour >clearance of about 0.001" Do you think this might cause problems if the >boards >exhibits any degree of incomplete etching during fabrication? That's OK; those traces/vias are on the same potential (GND) as the copper pour. As the copper pour is a redundant ground plane it doesn't matter electrically. So actually the clearance should be reduced to zero; I'm trying to teach my Gerber parser about this (without adding unwanted shorts, obviously). >It would appear that the board was either hand routed or used in conjunction >with a grid based router ... is this correct? Yes; every single trace on the LART is hand-routed (using a .3mm grid for maximum density in the buses). Actually routing and placing happened at the same time; I used back annotations a lot to optimize trace lengths. That explains the funky address bus connections to the Flash, btw. I hope this clarifies matters; you know where to find me if it doensn't ;-) JD 'bedtime' B. -- "There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering." It starts with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of the non-gaseous byproducts." (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 11:04:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25902 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:04:00 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25898 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:03:59 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:02:07 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: KSB audio working ! Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, Just a short status update: I've finally made the audio DAC on the Kitchen Sink Board produce something other than static or silence. It appears that just following the data sheet isn't enough; you must use the serial interface and explicitly switch it to I2C mode. After the weekend I'll get started on the IDE interface (which should be a breeze, right Nicolas ?) JD 'happy happy joy joy' B. -- Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 12:15:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA26078 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:15:46 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26073 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:15:46 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA19508; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:15:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:15:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003311015.MAA19508@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: KSB audio working ! In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:02:07 +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Just a short status update: I've finally made the audio DAC on the Kitchen > Sink Board produce something other than static or silence. It appears that > just following the data sheet isn't enough; you must use the serial > interface and explicitly switch it to I2C mode. Cool! Is this still from the CPLD, or from the CPU? > After the weekend I'll get started on the IDE interface (which should be a > breeze, right Nicolas ?) Hey, I also want something to do! ;-) > -- > Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. I'll bring my spare amplifier, do you have a spare pair of very loud speakers? Erik PS: JDB and I will share the last room, so we can make lots of noise without disturbing the others ;-) -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 12:51:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA26174 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:51:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26170 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:51:06 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSA0002P8T47J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00939 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:51:59 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04699 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:44:35 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:45:14 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: subscribe To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38E481BA.2E307589@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk subscribe -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Mar 31 17:05:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26862 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:05:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26858 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:05:39 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSA00J0UKLCYG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:05:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:57:41 -0500 (EST) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: KSB audio working ! In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi all, > > Just a short status update: I've finally made the audio DAC on the Kitchen > Sink Board produce something other than static or silence. It appears that > just following the data sheet isn't enough; you must use the serial > interface and explicitly switch it to I2C mode. Great! Has the Itsy driver been of some help? > After the weekend I'll get started on the IDE interface (which should be a > breeze, right Nicolas ?) I would say a click! :-) In theory, all you have to do is modify linux/include/asm/arch/ide.h. However I never tested IDE in 2.3.x kernels because the toys^H^H^H^Hhardware I currently have access to doesn't do IDE. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 1 20:56:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA30004 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:56:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA30000 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:56:04 +0200 Received: from snail.ecs.umass.edu (snail.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSC00C26PXFNI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:56:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from odo.ecs.umass.edu (odo.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.174]) by snail.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27811 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mcrichto@localhost) by odo.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA06297 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:41:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:41:03 -0500 From: Mark Crichton Subject: PCB info and other stuff To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: crichton@gimp.org Message-id: <20000401134103.B5319@odo.ecs.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, I was wondering if anyone has gotten farther in trying to get some PCBs mass produced and/or actually producing some complete LARTs. Also, I was wondering about adding TV capability to a LART. Has anyone got more experience with it? (I was looking at using some of Thompson Electronics ICs to do the work, but they seem to be powergrubbing little monsters. :( ) Lastly, looking at the pdf schematic for the LART, I was wodnering if the part number for the DRAM chips should be uPD4265165 and not uPD4264165. Thanks, Mark Crichton -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 1 23:59:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30246 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:59:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30242 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:59:35 +0200 Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSC00FFMYFAUT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:59:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.10.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e31Ll2r27171 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 16:47:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 09:48:39 +0000 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: What cna it do Now..! To: LART Mailling list Message-id: <38E5C5F6.2E0D2080@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13-7mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Gents, I guess I should introduce myself, My name is Hugues (French name not misspell) I'm a Network Engineer from Toronto Canada... I'm really impress with to LART WOW what a bunch of smart people ... Bravo....!!! Ok. Enough sucking up... I'm more then interested in what you guys are doing I'd like to use this board as a base for my business... I've been working hard over the last month designing two product lines and I think that the LART has the potential to fit the bill for both projects.... But I'm going to be a little pushy, when do you think that the board will be usable for production system ? I need to know when the networking components will be useable ? Thanks Hugues -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 2 01:06:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA30626 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:06:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA30622 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:06:15 +0200 Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSD00H0G1IELJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from utdallas.edu ([24.0.101.72]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000401230347.VLPB18422.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@utdallas.edu> for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 15:03:47 -0800 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:00:18 -0600 From: Bob Davis Subject: ISSI DRAM Parts To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <38E67F82.3040904@utdallas.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id BAA30623 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Under the LART.dist-README file it states that TSOP-II EDO DRAM chips are needed. I went to the issi web site and found that they offer 25,35,50, and 60 ns ram chips.  The manufacturer that i am using for the parts offers all versions at the same price.  Is there any preference of chips here?  Are there any that will not work? Thanks, Bob -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 2 03:32:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA30936 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:32:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA30932 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:32:35 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSD00IJQ8A9PI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:32:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA27092 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:28:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:28:55 -0500 From: Rob Leslie Subject: MPEG audio decoding In-reply-to: "Your message of Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:41:10 PST." <20000330144110.80526.qmail@hotmail.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004020128.UAA27092@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: >> If it is just a decoder: Nicolas Pitre released a fixed point version of >> splay that runs at about 4% CPU time on a Netwinder. The gain of using >> an mp3 decoder chip is very little compared to the software solution. Simon Labrecque replied: > I agree with you. After thinking about it: I don't want an mp3 decoder chip, > since I want to be able to easily add new standards as they arrive (ie: > MP4?). That would not be possible if the decoding is done in hardware. > > The performance you mention about splay is very impressive. Does someone > knows how good the XAudio lib performs under an ARM? I generated some statistics for the decoders I'm aware that will run under ARM. None of these are quite as impressive as 4% on the Netwinder, but I'm assuming this is a factor of the CPU (maybe Erik could elaborate?) The following shows the amount of CPU time required to decode the various MPEG audio layers as a percentage of audio real-time. The measurements were taken with some test bitstreams each longer than 4 minutes. CPU: StrongARM 1100 220MHz OS: Linux 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg22 Layer Layer Layer decoder version I II III ---------------------------------------------------------------- [1] Xaudio 1.3.1 21% 25% 24% [2] MAD 0.10.0b 23% 22% 37% [3] splay-fixpoint 0.81 41% 36% 43% [1] http://www.xaudio.com/ (commercial) [2] http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ (GPL) [3] ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ (GPL/LGPL) As I mentioned, MAD's Layer III isn't fully optimized yet, and I am actively working on it. It should be possible to approximate or exceed Xaudio's performance on machines without an FPU. -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 2 05:41:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA31043 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 05:41:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA31039 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 05:41:02 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSD00K08E8CPB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 05:41:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id TAA1036360 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:35:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:35:57 -0800 From: Greg Fountain Subject: LART PC Board Build To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38E6C01D.246D1220@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------17256B0C7D66093A0E911F3A" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------17256B0C7D66093A0E911F3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This Monday I'm planning on releasing a set of LART Mainboard Gerbers to one of the local PC Board fab shops here in Silicon Valley. In order to hold down costs I've requested a 3 week turn around on the PC Boards. (Also because I'll be on travel for for about 10 days and wouldn't be able to use them right away anyhow.) A portion of the boards I'm going to use myself for building a few populated prototypes. Step one will to to see if the Fab shop builds them correctly (+ and - Gerbers get merged properly etc) . If the boards look good (without any manufacturing mistakes) I can offer a limited number (@ approx $50 US each) to those that want to try and build their own from scratch. The components for the assembled version have yet to be ordered. I'm going to attempt to complete the Bill Of Materials (BOM) before I leave, but can't guarantee it. I know there is an interest in obtaining assembled versions of the LART. But I want to limit the initial build of assembled units to a relatively small number (about a dozen or so ) until I get things to work OK (mostly because their could be mistakes or delays in the build process ... distributors don't have parts in stock, ship the wrong ones, parts installed backwards or I accidentally order a wrong component etc. ... the normal stuff that shouldn't happen but does) Greg Fountain Menlo Park, California USA --------------17256B0C7D66093A0E911F3A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------17256B0C7D66093A0E911F3A-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 2 19:59:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31914 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:59:42 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA31910 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:59:41 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id TAA29340; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:59:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:59:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004021759.TAA29340@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: rob@mars.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: MPEG audio decoding In-Reply-To: <200004020128.UAA27092@deimos.mars.org> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:28:55 -0500, Rob Leslie wrote: > Erik Mouw wrote: >>> If it is just a decoder: Nicolas Pitre released a fixed point version of >>> splay that runs at about 4% CPU time on a Netwinder. The gain of using >>> an mp3 decoder chip is very little compared to the software solution. > > Simon Labrecque replied: >> The performance you mention about splay is very impressive. Does someone >> knows how good the XAudio lib performs under an ARM? > > I generated some statistics for the decoders I'm aware that will run under > ARM. None of these are quite as impressive as 4% on the Netwinder, but I'm > assuming this is a factor of the CPU (maybe Erik could elaborate?) First of all, here are some statistics from a Netwinder: splay-fixpoint-0.81 compiled with "gcc-2.95.2 -O3 -mcpu=strongarm110": erik@netwinder:~/mp3 >/usr/bin/time ~/splay test.mp3 13.04user 4.12system 4:54.02elapsed 5%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (183major+212minor)pagefaults 0swaps splay-fixpoint-0.81 compiled with "gcc-2.8.1 -O2": erik@netwinder:~/mp3 >/usr/bin/time ~/splay test.mp3 24.77user 4.42system 4:54.16elapsed 9%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (514major+232minor)pagefaults 0swaps Xaudio 1.3.1: erik@netwinder:~/mp3 >/usr/bin/time ~/xaudio test.mp3 XAUDIO: stream type = MPEG 1, layer III, 128 kbps, 44100 hz, joint-stereo 41.01user 4.10system 4:53.00elapsed 15%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (123major+22minor)pagefaults 0swaps MAD 0.10.0b compiled with "gcc-2.95.2 -O3 -funroll-loops -mcpu=strongarm110": erik@netwinder:~/mp3 >/usr/bin/time ~/madplay test.mp3 MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.0 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie test.mp3: 11213 frames decoded (4:52.9) 63.82user 4.07system 4:53.34elapsed 23%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (1194major+17minor)pagefaults 0swaps The MP3 file test.mp3 is Paul Simon's "Graceland", a 4 minutes 53 seconds Layer III file. The Netwinder has a 280MHz SA110 CPU. I am not able to repeat the 4% CPU time with this particular MP3 file, but 5% for splay is pretty impressive, too. However, a couple of weeks ago someone on the debian-arm mailing list was also able to get 4% CPU time, so it seems quite a normal figure. Splay is very sensitive to compiler optimizations: compiled with gcc-2.8.1, the performance drops to 9% CPU time. I think the difference is in the files filter.cc and filter_2.cc, which Nicolas heavily optimized (right Nico?). These two files use a lot of DSP like operations, and the gcc-2.95.2 optimizer just simply does a better job on that. The main differences between the SA110 and the SA1100 are the size of the data cache (16K vs. 8K) and the clock speed (280MHz vs. 220MHz). Those differences can be seen in the performance of Xaudio and MAD, which are both 1.6 times as fast on the Netwinder. The performance of splay is 8.6 times better on the Netwinder, which is quite large to explain. It might be that splay thrashes the data cache on the SA1100, but I think the main difference is in the compiler. Could you recompile splay with "-O3 -mcpu=strongarm110" and test it again on your SA1100 platform? (I can supply a statically linked binary if necessary). Erik PS: I know there is someone working on a fixed point StrongARM version of mpg123, I just can't remember who it was... -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 2 23:26:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA32227 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:26:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA32223 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:26:22 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSE00E42RJWPV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:26:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA08270 for ; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:22:51 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:22:48 -0400 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: MPEG audio decoding In-reply-to: "Your message of Sun, 02 Apr 2000 19:59:38 +0200." <200004021759.TAA29340@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004022122.RAA08270@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Thanks, Erik, for the extra data. Unfortunately even compiling splay with gcc 2.95.2 "-O3 -mcpu=strongarm110" I can't get anywhere near on the SA1100 to the ratio of timings you're seeing. I had compiled with "-O2 -mcpu=strongarm110 -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-strength-reduce" before, and the difference comes out to be less than a second of user time. If you can send me a statically linked binary, I'd be happy to try with that. > PS: I know there is someone working on a fixed point StrongARM version of > mpg123, I just can't remember who it was... I found an ARM version of mpg123 optimized by Simon Burge for NetBSD; the CPU numbers I get on the SA1100 are: Layer Layer Layer decoder version I II III ---------------------------------------------------------------- mpg123-arm32 0.59r [1] 27%[2] 32% [1] failed to decode bitstream [2] outputs silence which puts it between Xaudio (24%) and MAD (37%) for Layer III. -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 02:29:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00205 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:29:53 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00194; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:29:45 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000401134103.B5319@odo.ecs.umass.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:18:14 +0200 To: crichton@gimp.org From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PCB info and other stuff Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Also, I was wondering about adding TV capability to a LART. Has anyone >got more experience with it? (I was looking at using some of Thompson >Electronics ICs to do the work, but they seem to be powergrubbing little >monsters. :( ) TV in or TV out ? I'm working on component video out; the (AD) chipset I'm looking at can also output composite PAL/NTSC/SECAM. After that it's just SCART or a modulator. Video in is also on my list, albeit a bit further down. >Lastly, looking at the pdf schematic for the LART, I was wodnering if the >part number for the DRAM chips should be uPD4265165 and not uPD4264165. Ah yes; that's a pretty important piece of information. I'll correct the schematics ASAP. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 02:29:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00202 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:29:52 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00196; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:29:48 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E67F82.3040904@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:29:19 +0200 To: Bob Davis From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: ISSI DRAM Parts Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 01:00 +0200 02-04-2000, Bob Davis wrote: >Under the LART.dist-README file it states that TSOP-II EDO DRAM chips >are needed. I went to the issi web site and found that they offer >25,35,50, and 60 ns ram chips. What ? 25ns EDO DRAM chips ? Where ? Gimme ! ;-) > The manufacturer that i am using for the >parts offers all versions at the same price. Is there any preference of >chips here? Are there any that will not work? Chips that will work match *all* of these criteria: - 64Mbit in 4Mx16 configuration - 50-pin TSOP-II package - EDO or (rare) FPM configuration - 3v3 supply voltage - 4k refresh (12 row addresses, 10 column addresses) Chips that will *not* work include: - SDRAM chips - SOJ or BGA package - 8k refresh - 5v supply voltage I'd suggest everyone to check with me before buying DRAM parts. JDB. -- "Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot." -- Arne Damvin in asr -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 02:38:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00238 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:38:44 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00232; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:38:40 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E6C01D.246D1220@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:38:20 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >This Monday I'm planning on releasing a set of LART Mainboard Gerbers to >one of the local PC Board fab shops here in Silicon Valley. I applaud this; it's great to see LARTs built all over, but: BIG FAT WARNING: The Maxim MAX1626/1627 (used in the power supply) have *very* long lead times right now (in the order of 16 weeks). I'm doing a LART rev 4 with Linear parts somewhere this week. If you're confident that you can get a hold of the Maxim parts then by all means, go ahead with the Rev 3. I know of one list member that has a small stockpile of these and may be convinced to part with some (hi Adam ;-)). JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 02:46:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00265 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:46:58 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00259; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:46:51 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E5C5F6.2E0D2080@cgocable.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:46:31 +0200 To: Hugues Belanger From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: What cna it do Now..! Cc: LART Mailling list Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >But I'm going to be a little pushy, when do you think that the board >will be usable for production system ? I need to know when the >networking components will be useable ? I have a demo at the end of next week; I hope to show working Ethernet there. Dunno if I will manage; I have the PCBs, but they need stuffing and debugging. JDB [and I seem to need sleep] -- "A satisfied customer ? We ought to have him stuffed !" -- Basil Fawlty -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 02:49:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00281 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:49:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00277 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:49:16 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSF00HMN0XDW6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:49:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07810; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:48:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:48:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: MPEG audio decoding In-reply-to: <200004021759.TAA29340@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Erik Mouw Cc: rob@mars.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id CAA00278 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > First of all, here are some statistics from a Netwinder: Wow! I didn't know that splay performed so well on a Netwinder! :-) I always tested it on à SA1100. > Splay is very sensitive to compiler optimizations: compiled with > gcc-2.8.1, the performance drops to 9% CPU time. I think the difference is > in the files filter.cc and filter_2.cc, which Nicolas heavily optimized > (right Nico?). Well... The original author did. His goal was to play MP3 files real-time on his Pentium 60MHz. I made the fixed point support and audited the performance of the fixed point implementation and generated assembly, but not much about the general algorithm. > The main differences between the SA110 and the SA1100 are the size of the > data cache (16K vs. 8K) and the clock speed (280MHz vs. 220MHz). Those > differences can be seen in the performance of Xaudio and MAD, which are > both 1.6 times as fast on the Netwinder. The performance of splay is 8.6 > times better on the Netwinder, which is quite large to explain. It might > be that splay thrashes the data cache on the SA1100, Most probably. One of the optimisation not related to fixed point stuff that I made was about instruction cache footprint. While it performed a little less on a PC, I gained few percent on the SA1100. But I think splay is effectively trashing data cache on the SA1100, especially for layer III. I can't explain its performance difference with the Netwinder otherwise. I just compared madplay against splay on my Pentium 233MHz, and here are the results: madplay: 25.25user 1.03system 1:18.10elapsed 33%CPU splay: 22.94user 1.21system 1:18.14elapsed 30%CPU So I guess splay is not so bad after all. > PS: I know there is someone working on a fixed point StrongARM version of > mpg123, I just can't remember who it was... mpg123 isn't really GPL though. It may make a difference if you care. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 03:04:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00319 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:04:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00312 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:04:02 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSF00I7E1MLHA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:04:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:01:29 +1000 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:01:29 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: greg.fountain@telvex.com, Lart Mail Server Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >This Monday I'm planning on releasing a set of LART Mainboard Gerbers to > >one of the local PC Board fab shops here in Silicon Valley. > > I applaud this; it's great to see LARTs built all over, but: > > BIG FAT WARNING: The Maxim MAX1626/1627 (used in the power supply) have > *very* long lead times right now (in the order of 16 weeks). I'm doing a > LART rev 4 with Linear parts somewhere this week. > > If you're confident that you can get a hold of the Maxim parts then by all > means, go ahead with the Rev 3. I know of one list member that has a small > stockpile of these and may be convinced to part with some (hi Adam ;-)). I only have about 50 which I need for future projects and our own production run of PLEB hardware. I am willing to part with half to a full dozen for a good cause but I doubt that will help. Best to wait for one using linear parts. BTW JDB what parts you going to use? Cheers Adam, soon to have ethernet. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 03:08:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00339 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:08:52 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00334; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:08:43 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:08:38 +0200 To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Best to wait for one >using linear parts. BTW JDB what parts you going to use? Depends on (a) availability and (b) whether I choose for maximum efficiency or minimum cost. I'll know about (a) tomorrow, and in (b) I tend to go with efficiency. > Cheers Adam, soon to have ethernet. Which chip ? JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 03:13:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00360 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:13:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00356 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:13:53 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSF00IEI232E5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:13:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id SAA1117636; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 18:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 18:08:46 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build To: "J.D. Bakker" , Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38E7EF1E.A6E5E825@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3FB5DEB315CBE264CBD5799E" X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3FB5DEB315CBE264CBD5799E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the warning J.D. I'll summit my request for engineering samples today If I get really desperate I can always drive down the road to their plant and sit on the front steps till I get some parts. In my case I would like to stick with DC-DC switchers since I'm interested in minimizing power consumption. The fewer Joules wasted the better. A more readily available part from MAXIM, MICREL or Linear Technology might be worth while to look at as a fall back solution. Another option is to move the Power Supply off board. Greg "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > >This Monday I'm planning on releasing a set of LART Mainboard Gerbers to > >one of the local PC Board fab shops here in Silicon Valley. > > I applaud this; it's great to see LARTs built all over, but: > > BIG FAT WARNING: The Maxim MAX1626/1627 (used in the power supply) have > *very* long lead times right now (in the order of 16 weeks). I'm doing a > LART rev 4 with Linear parts somewhere this week. > > If you're confident that you can get a hold of the Maxim parts then by all > means, go ahead with the Rev 3. I know of one list member that has a small > stockpile of these and may be convinced to part with some (hi Adam ;-)). > > JDB. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' --------------3FB5DEB315CBE264CBD5799E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------3FB5DEB315CBE264CBD5799E-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 03:16:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00381 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:16:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00373 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:16:26 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSF00IDB27ADV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:16:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:16:02 +1000 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:16:01 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Lart Mail Server Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > Best to wait for one > >using linear parts. BTW JDB what parts you going to use? > > Depends on (a) availability and (b) whether I choose for maximum efficiency > or minimum cost. I'll know about (a) tomorrow, and in (b) I tend to go with > efficiency. :) In the future I'm going for cost in small quantities ;) > > > Cheers Adam, soon to have ethernet. > > Which chip ? Not sure think it was the crystals. Daves doing it, once its routed I'll make that and the memory card CAD files avaliable under something like the LART licence. I'm holding out on the CPU board till I get time to fix it's mistakes. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 03:28:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00404 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:28:19 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00398; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:28:15 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E7EF1E.A6E5E825@ix.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:28:05 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART PC Board Build Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >If I get really desperate I can always drive down the road to their plant and >sit on the front steps till I get some parts. Hey, I wish I had that option ;-) >In my case I would like to stick with DC-DC switchers since I'm interested in >minimizing power consumption. The fewer Joules wasted the better. Very true. I see there may be some confusion, when I wrote >> I'm doing a >> LART rev 4 with Linear parts somewhere this week. I meant Linear Technology switchers, not a 'linear' power supply. LART should be usable in mobile/wearable computing, and in my book that means that a linear supply would be out of the question (although the Itsy boys seem to disagree...). JDB. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 05:57:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA00621 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:57:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA00617 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:57:53 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSF00KJQ9OG6O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:57:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id UAA1113896; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:52:13 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: Learn about FPGA programming To: Damien Miller Cc: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38E8156D.A10FEB32@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_p9QRiKuTlrYDyT7ep2YpJA)" X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_p9QRiKuTlrYDyT7ep2YpJA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Damien, > > My goal is to a) learn about FPGA programming and b) develop a > hardware crypto module. Have you taken a look at the Xilinx Corp. CoolRunner series of parts (Technically they are CPLD's)? http://www.xilinx.com/products/xpla3.htm They have very low power consumption <100µA in standby mode. (Very useful for LART type applications) The FPGA design tools are free. The parts are relatively cheap And there is a new low cost evaluation board for about $99 USD. Insight Electronics ( http://www.insight-electronics.com/ ) Part No. DS-XPLA3-PAK Greg --Boundary_(ID_p9QRiKuTlrYDyT7ep2YpJA) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=sv_calif.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-disposition: attachment; filename=sv_calif.vcf Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_p9QRiKuTlrYDyT7ep2YpJA)-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 08:21:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00818 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:21:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00814 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:21:21 +0200 Received: from sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU (sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU [149.171.96.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSF00M1PGBGZX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:21:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from alpha400.ee.unsw.edu.au (alpha400.ee.unsw.EDU.AU [149.171.36.48]) by sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.8.8 Kenso-Central-NO-SPAM) with ESMTP id QAA01902 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:08:36 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (u2189659@localhost) by alpha400.ee.unsw.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02459 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:56:25 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:56:25 +1000 (EST) From: Ken Chiu Kun Wu Subject: Tips on implementing Parallel port To: Lart Mail Server Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi guys, It may sounds weir (is it?) why I like to implement parallel port on a SA1100 base board (LART, PLEB, etc). At the moment, I have a parallel port CMOS camera (uses VV6300 chip sensor from www.vvl.co.uk). Currently the camera has a driver (module) support on my Linux Pentium Box. So my initial plan is to port the driver to the StrongARM platform. However since SA1100 doesn't have parallel port, that means I need to use the GPIO that's offered. Anyone experience in this area? e.g. emulating Parallel port using GPIO.... where should I begin.. links to some useful information will be much appreciated.. Thanks :) Cheers Ken ----------------------------------------------- Ken Wu (Electrical/Biomedical Eng. UNSW Sydney) E-Mail: kenwu@ieee.org kenchiu.wu@au.unisys.com Homepage: www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~kckwu Mobile: 0410 668 349 ICQ number: 1074203 ----------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 09:50:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00972 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:50:09 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00967; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:50:00 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E8156D.A10FEB32@ix.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:48:50 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Learn about FPGA programming Cc: Damien Miller , Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:52 +0200 03-04-2000, Greg Fountain wrote: >Damien, > >> >> My goal is to a) learn about FPGA programming and b) develop a >> hardware crypto module. > >Have you taken a look at the Xilinx Corp. CoolRunner series of parts >(Technically they are CPLD's)? http://www.xilinx.com/products/xpla3.htm Yes, but they're a bit small for hardware crypto engines. I'd go with the Xilinx Virtex chips instead. >They have very low power consumption <100µA in standby mode. (Very >useful for LART type applications) That's true, but do you know a supplier (preferably one that will ship to Europe) that has them in stock ? All European suppliers are still a bit uncertain becaude of the Philips->Xilinx transition, and even AvnetMarshall doesn't seem to know when they will start selling them. JDB. [who has a Virtex board on the hi-speed bus on his Things To Do-list] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 10:46:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01091 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:10 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01087 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:09 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA02422; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:00 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:00 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004030846.KAA02422@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: u2189659@ee.unsw.edu.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Tips on implementing Parallel port In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:56:25 +1000 (EST), Ken Chiu Kun Wu wrote: > It may sounds weir (is it?) why I like to implement > parallel port on a SA1100 base board (LART, PLEB, etc). > At the moment, I have a parallel port CMOS camera (uses VV6300 chip > sensor from www.vvl.co.uk). Currently the camera has a driver (module) > support on my Linux Pentium Box. So my initial plan is to port > the driver to the StrongARM platform. However since SA1100 > doesn't have parallel port, that means I need to use the GPIO > that's offered. Anyone experience in this area? e.g. emulating > Parallel port using GPIO.... where should I begin.. links to > some useful information will be much appreciated.. Thanks :) It's not too difficult, we have done it before with a 2x16 character LCD. My guess is that the PC driver uses the parallel port as a GPIO port, so porting should be easy: change every inb/outb into the appropriate apropriate GPIO instruction and it should work. There is one minor caveat: the SA1100 GPIOs are extremely fast compared to the PC parallel port. The easy way to overcome this problem is by makeing liberate use of udelay() between two signal transitions. No, this is not a clean way because you're sleeping in kernel mode, but it works. The correct way is to use a task queue, but that's a bit more difficult. On the hardware side there might be another problem: the SA1100 is a 3.3V device, while the PC parallel port uses 5V levels. Find out in your camera's manual if it will work with 3.3V logic. If not, you have to use some line drivers to convert the logic levels (ask Adam ;-)). Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 15:55:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01864 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:55:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01858 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:55:45 +0200 Received: from server1.siscom.net (server1.siscom.net [209.251.2.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSG007NL1CVIS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:55:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 34292 invoked from network); Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:51:41 +0000 Received: from ppp206.c5300-2.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) ([209.251.10.206]) (envelope-sender ) by server1.siscom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:51:41 +0000 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:51:12 -0700 From: Brian Kraack Subject: Re: Learn about FPGA programming To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: greg.fountain@telvex.com, Damien Miller , Lart Mail Server Reply-to: bkraack@siscom.net Message-id: <38E8CBFF.F7AFD659@siscom.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk One of my ex-coworker buddys, who was going to be getting us all the parts for our boards (back when we were thinking of doing a build run) works for a Xilinx distributor ... I don't know how international sales/regulatory stuff works for that kind of thing, but I might be able to help someone in that area if it's needed. (I'm in Dayton, Ohio, USA) /Brian J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 05:52 +0200 03-04-2000, Greg Fountain wrote: > >Damien, > > > >> > >> My goal is to a) learn about FPGA programming and b) develop a > >> hardware crypto module. > > > >Have you taken a look at the Xilinx Corp. CoolRunner series of parts > >(Technically they are CPLD's)? http://www.xilinx.com/products/xpla3.htm > > Yes, but they're a bit small for hardware crypto engines. I'd go with the > Xilinx Virtex chips instead. > > >They have very low power consumption <100µA in standby mode. (Very > >useful for LART type applications) > > That's true, but do you know a supplier (preferably one that will ship to > Europe) that has them in stock ? All European suppliers are still a bit > uncertain becaude of the Philips->Xilinx transition, and even AvnetMarshall > doesn't seem to know when they will start selling them. > > JDB. > [who has a Virtex board on the hi-speed bus on his Things To Do-list] > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 17:22:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02050 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:22:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02046 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:22:09 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f178.hotmail.com [216.32.181.178]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSG00F2M5CSC0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:22:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 50077 invoked by uid 0); Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:21:44 +0000 Received: from 195.197.88.70 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 08:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:21:44 +0100 (EEST) From: Mika Lauronen Subject: SA-1110 To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000403152144.50076.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [195.197.88.70] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here the local distributors try to turn me to use newer SA-1110 because SA-1100 is old fashioned ;)... Maybe they want to sell SA-1110 because of the availability ;) Anyway, what do you think is it a big job convert the LART to use 1110 the newer one? Rgsd Mika ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 17:58:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02211 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:58:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02207 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:58:10 +0200 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.ar51.net [208.225.80.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSG00H4H70WLQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:58:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-173.ar51.net [208.225.80.173]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10544; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:35:32 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:35:16 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:35:03 -0400 From: Jeff Sutherland Subject: RE: SA-1110 To: "'Mika Lauronen'" , "LART Mailing List (E-mail)" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here the local distributors try to turn me to use newer SA-1110 because SA-1100 is old fashioned ;)... Maybe they want to sell SA-1110 because of the availability ;) Anyway, what do you think is it a big job convert the LART to use 1110 the newer one? Rgsd Mika The Intel rep is also telling one of our customers not to design with the 1100, go with the SA-1110 instead. *Supposedly* from a software standpoint it shouldn't be a big issue, unless you move to using SDRAMs which require some code at boot time to get running properly. Getting past setting up the MMU in arch/arm/kernel/head-armv.S has been problematic for me, however, using 2.3.99-pre1 :( //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 18:54:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02397 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:54:02 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02392; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:53:58 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000403152144.50076.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:52:26 +0200 To: Mika Lauronen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: SA-1110 Cc: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:21 +0200 03-04-2000, Mika Lauronen wrote: >Here the local distributors try to turn me to >use newer SA-1110 because SA-1100 is old fashioned ;)... >Maybe they want to sell SA-1110 because of the >availability ;) Anyway, what do you think is it a >big job convert the LART to use 1110 the newer one? ATM I have three reasons not to do a redesign from SA-1100 to SA-1110: 1) For most purposes the SA-1100 is perfectly OK. I expect Intel to ship the chip for at least two more years. 2) Around here the SA-1110 is not yet available. I've ordered some samples in December; still waiting for them. 3) The SA-1110 only comes in Ball Grid Array (BGA) package. That sucks rocks through straw if you're doing small runs. The third one is the biggest for me. BGA may be fine for runs of >10k boards, but all PCB assembers that I know shudder when I mention doing BGA in proto runs. And I don't blame them. That being said, once I have the samples lying on my desk and I don't have anything else to do, I may have a crack at it. JDB. -- "NT admins? These guys couldn't admin a calculator without toll-free phone support." -Siggi B in the Scary Devil Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 20:12:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02599 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:12:08 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02595 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:12:06 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA05887; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:12:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:12:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004031812.UAA05887@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: Announce: LART ramdisk page Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, We just made a page with RAM disks on the LART site (see signature for URL). There are currently two ramdisks available: the modified Itsy ramdisk, and a glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk. The latter is not yet tested, but we all know about Eric Raymond's "release early, release often" mantra... Erik -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 20:34:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02810 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:44 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02803; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:41 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000403002649.A17499@odo.ecs.umass.edu> References: ; from bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl on Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 02:18:14AM +0200 <20000401134103.B5319@odo.ecs.umass.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:29:19 +0200 To: Mark Crichton From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PCB info and other stuff Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 06:26 +0200 03-04-2000, Mark Crichton wrote: >* J.D. Bakker (bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl) [000402 20:29]: >> >> Video in is also on my list, albeit a bit further down. >> > >That's what I'm going for. A nice little portable TV would be cool. ;) >The only downside I've found is that the ST chips I want to use (based >on the STV2118B) are 12V monsters. The Brooktree chips are also nice (one of >the nicest NTSC/SECAM/PAL decoders IMHO to work with), but they require a >PCI bus. They probably also gobble the juice. Analog Devices (http://www.analog.com/) has some nice chips, like the ADV7185. You may want to check them out. >I've also was thinking about trying to get the LART to do some form of >audio encoding realtime. My MiniDisc recorder is too big to smuggle into >concerts... ;) Multichannel harddisk recording is on my list as well. So little time... >Also, the 2 crystals on the LART, what's their freq perchance? Are they >documented in the StrongARM reference manual? It's in the manual; one is a 32.768KHz crystal for timekeeping; the other one is 3.6864MHz for all other frequencies (CPU core, serial ports...). JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 20:34:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02813 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:45 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02805; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:42 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38E84E4D.BF16E317@utdallas.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:26 +0200 To: Bob Davis From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: ISSI DRAM Parts Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 09:54 +0200 03-04-2000, Bob Davis wrote: >Ahh, silly me. I was looking at 4M (256Kx16) DRAM parts not 64M (4Mx16) >I don't know what I was thinking. Late night I guess. You may have some trouble fitting Linux into the 2M that that yields ;) > Anyways, how >does ISSI IS41LV16400 64M 50ns DRAM sound? Would that work? That should work as far as I can tell, yes. > Also >Micron MT4LC4M16R6 same specs. I sure hope so, I have 500 of those in a sealed box to be mounted on my next LART-run ;-) > Or, I could just ask you what you >used... What DRAM did you use? (c= The NEC upD4265165G5-A60. JDB. -- "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 20:45:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02913 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:45:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02909 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:45:00 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSG0015YELV4C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:44:59 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:37:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-reply-to: <200004031812.UAA05887@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > Hi all, > > We just made a page with RAM disks on the LART site (see signature for > URL). There are currently two ramdisks available: the modified Itsy > ramdisk, and a glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk. Damn! I was just about to announce that I produced a glibc-2.1.2 ramdisk too! I finished it an hour ago. I wanted to test it tonight before announcing it... :-) So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many networking tools. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 22:42:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03185 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:54 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03181 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:54 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA06481; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004032042.WAA06481@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:37:08 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> We just made a page with RAM disks on the LART site (see signature for >> URL). There are currently two ramdisks available: the modified Itsy >> ramdisk, and a glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk. > > Damn! I was just about to announce that I produced a glibc-2.1.2 ramdisk > too! I finished it an hour ago. I wanted to test it tonight before > announcing it... :-) You can still be the first with a _working_ ramdisk, because my glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk doesn't work yet. I think I made a minor mistake with a (busybox) init script, because I get dropped on an interesting "init-2.03 #" prompt that turns out to be bash. > So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow > too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many > networking tools. No, mine is a lot smaller thanks to busybox and tinylogin. Bash is currently the biggest part, and I plan to replace it with ash. I also have to add z-modem and insmod, now you're speaking of it... Erik -- "people are still using Win98? Wow... VMS i could understand, but WinXX - that's just so passe..." -- Paul Jakma on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 22:59:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03243 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:59:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03239 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:59:53 +0200 Received: from crl.dec.com (crl.dec.com [192.58.206.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSG0069JKXMFX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:59:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crlwebmail.crl.dec.com (crlwebmail.crl.dec.com [16.11.0.2]) by crl.dec.com (8.8.8/RWD-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA03053; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by crlwebmail.crl.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:58:47 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:55:16 -0400 From: George France Subject: RE: Announce: LART ramdisk page To: "'Erik Mouw'" , nico@cam.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I am working on one, as well. :-)) --George George France, france@crl.dec.com Cambridge Research Laboratory, Compaq Computer Corporation One Kendall Square, Building 700 MS: CRL Cambridge, MA 02139 USA -----Original Message----- From: Erik Mouw [mailto:J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 4:43 PM To: nico@CAM.ORG Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl; sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Announce: LART ramdisk page On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:37:08 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> We just made a page with RAM disks on the LART site (see signature for >> URL). There are currently two ramdisks available: the modified Itsy >> ramdisk, and a glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk. > > Damn! I was just about to announce that I produced a glibc-2.1.2 ramdisk > too! I finished it an hour ago. I wanted to test it tonight before > announcing it... :-) You can still be the first with a _working_ ramdisk, because my glibc-2.1.2 based ramdisk doesn't work yet. I think I made a minor mistake with a (busybox) init script, because I get dropped on an interesting "init-2.03 #" prompt that turns out to be bash. > So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow > too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many > networking tools. No, mine is a lot smaller thanks to busybox and tinylogin. Bash is currently the biggest part, and I plan to replace it with ash. I also have to add z-modem and insmod, now you're speaking of it... Erik -- "people are still using Win98? Wow... VMS i could understand, but WinXX - that's just so passe..." -- Paul Jakma on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 23:12:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA03304 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:12:02 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03300 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:12:02 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA06639; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004032111.XAA06639@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: france@crl.dec.com Cc: nico@cam.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: RE: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:55:16 -0400, George France wrote: > I am working on one, as well. :-)) Oh, cool! So that makes three: - my ramdisk is (eh, will be) small - Nico's ramdisk is full featured and RedHat-ish - Your ramdisk is ...? ;-)) Anyway, this will solve the problem that people can't get a ramdisk for their board. Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 3 23:24:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA03373 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:24:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03369 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:24:54 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSG006R6M0EFX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:24:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:17:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-reply-to: <200004032042.WAA06481@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow > > too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many > > networking tools. > > No, mine is a lot smaller thanks to busybox and tinylogin. Do you think I don't have those? :-) I just preserved the regular init since I don't like busybox's init much. > Bash is > currently the biggest part, and I plan to replace it with ash. I don't. My bash is about 340k where ash is 110k, but bash's touch anf feel is better to me. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 02:35:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA04133 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:35:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA04127 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:35:41 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSG00D9EUZDFT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:35:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:31:12 +1000 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:31:12 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: SA-1110 In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Mika Lauronen , J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Since I tend to be a little braindead when it comes to these things I will be doing a SA-1110 board as soon as I get some time (read june/july). Dave who I work with has commercially interested partners who want SA-1110 based hardware so I'll be getting offshots of sa-1110 chips as well as SDRAM making life much easier for me. The BGA may still prove a challange but the schools invested about 70,000 is PCB prototyping equipment so we expect to move to BGAs a lot more... Cheers Adam On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 19:21 +0200 03-04-2000, Mika Lauronen wrote: > >Here the local distributors try to turn me to > >use newer SA-1110 because SA-1100 is old fashioned ;)... > >Maybe they want to sell SA-1110 because of the > >availability ;) Anyway, what do you think is it a > >big job convert the LART to use 1110 the newer one? > > ATM I have three reasons not to do a redesign from SA-1100 to SA-1110: > > 1) For most purposes the SA-1100 is perfectly OK. I expect Intel to ship > the chip for at least two more years. > 2) Around here the SA-1110 is not yet available. I've ordered some samples > in December; still waiting for them. > 3) The SA-1110 only comes in Ball Grid Array (BGA) package. That sucks > rocks through straw if you're doing small runs. > > The third one is the biggest for me. BGA may be fine for runs of >10k > boards, but all PCB assembers that I know shudder when I mention doing BGA > in proto runs. And I don't blame them. > > That being said, once I have the samples lying on my desk and I don't have > anything else to do, I may have a crack at it. > > JDB. > > -- > "NT admins? These guys couldn't admin a calculator without toll-free > phone support." -Siggi B in the Scary Devil Monastery > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 04:47:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA04494 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:47:44 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA04490 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:47:44 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH00F9213JD2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:47:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.115) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:19:38 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: RE: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-reply-to: <200004032111.XAA06639@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000403154145.00adb3a0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk To go with RAM disk, how about a flash farm? Two devices, both from Hitachi (I am sure others make similar stuff): The controller: an HN29W256H02TE-1 and up to 32 memory devices (eg HN29W25611). Thirty three chips and you have a gigabyte that looks like IDE. ~80 mA during access, ~1.8 mA during standby. ~ 8 MB / Sec I/O. I haven't built one (yet) so I don't know if these specs are true... Which reminds me. Does / will LART have any facilities for measuring its own power consumption? Possibly at least a shunt or two and a high precision ADC? I suggest that one could do an etch cut and fly over a couple of wires when one is experimenting. So four shunts and a four channel S/H and mux and ADC. One for the processor, one for board overhead, one for total input power, and one with the mentioned experimental jumper pads. (s) Derek At 11:11 PM 4/3/00 +0200, you wrote: >On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:55:16 -0400, George France wrote: > > I am working on one, as well. :-)) > >Oh, cool! So that makes three: > >- my ramdisk is (eh, will be) small >- Nico's ramdisk is full featured and RedHat-ish >- Your ramdisk is ...? ;-)) > >Anyway, this will solve the problem that people can't get a ramdisk for >their board. > > >Erik > >-- >There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the >croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy > > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 07:03:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04734 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:03:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04730 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:03:03 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH00GM47D1PT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:03:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: New ELF ramdisk In-reply-to: To: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow > too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many > networking tools. So, it's available and pretty much working. The file can be retrieved from: ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ramdisk_img.gz The big features are: - glibc-2.1.2 - bash-1.14.7 - busybox-0.43 (most of it, but not all) - Red Hat style sysv initscripts (just drop Titan-VI RPMs...) - insmod/rmmod/lsmod - ifconfig/route/ping/traceroute/arp/netstat - telnet/ftp/inetd/in.telnetd - rz/sz - ae (text editor) - etc... The compressed file is 1.49 MB. There is approx 1.8 MB free on the filesystem. There should not be any problem running dynamically linked programs anymore. Tested on ADS ThinClient, but should work on anything else with a SA110 core too. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 10:49:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05386 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:49:01 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05381; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:48:58 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000403154145.00adb3a0@mail.clubnet.net> References: <200004032111.XAA06639@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:45:42 +0200 To: Derek Lassen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: RE: Announce: LART ramdisk page Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 01:19 +0200 04-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: >To go with RAM disk, how about a flash farm? >Two devices, both from Hitachi (I am sure others make similar stuff): > The controller: an HN29W256H02TE-1 and up to 32 memory devices (eg >HN29W25611). > Thirty three chips and you have a gigabyte that looks like IDE. > >~80 mA during access, ~1.8 mA during standby. > > >~ 8 MB / Sec I/O. > >I haven't built one (yet) so I don't know if these specs are true... I would be surprised if you could do 8M/sec writing to those devices; a casual glance suggests it may be below 1M/sec. It's probably better to buy a solution like this pre-packaged (ie in a PCMCIA card), as that has the benefit of economy of scale. >Which reminds me. Does / will LART have any facilities for measuring its >own power consumption? Possibly at least a shunt or two and a high >precision ADC? Rev3 (the one in the hardware distribution) has 10mOhm shunts in Vin, Vcore and Vio; we've used these to do Johan's dynamic power measurements (albeit with external multimeters). There are plans for an ADC board though. JDB. [whose tasks for today include figuring out whether those shunts can be replaced by PCB traces] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 10:51:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05402 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:51:11 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05398 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:51:10 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA09186; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:49:50 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:49:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004040849.KAA09186@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: New ELF ramdisk In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > >> So, if all is well, I'll have a new ramdisk image available by tomorrow >> too, stuffed with Red Hat style sysv initscripts, z-modem and many >> networking tools. > > So, it's available and pretty much working. The file can be retrieved > from: > > ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ramdisk_img.gz Ehm, maybe you should rename it because there is also a file ramdisk-img.gz in the same directory. [snip] > Tested on ADS ThinClient, but should work on anything else with a > SA110 core too. I just tested it on a LART and it works. One question: how did you make the file /etc/ld.so.cache? I can't find a proper ldconfig to generate it. I have the impression that I only miss that file to get it working (it alreay works with statically linked binaries). Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 11:42:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05589 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:42:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05581 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:42:15 +0200 Received: from mail.ivm.net (mail.ivm.net [62.204.1.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH008EVKAFDQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:42:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from KOMSERVER.dsa-ac.de (mail.dsa-ac.de [195.78.187.1]) by mail.ivm.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16505; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:34:26 +0200 Received: from PCHO.dsa-ac.de (PCHO.dsa-ac.de [172.29.25.6]) by KOMSERVER.dsa-ac.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA31199; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:34:37 +0200 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:33:54 +0100 From: Andreas Hofer Subject: RE: Announce: LART ramdisk page In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" X-To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004040934.LAA31199@KOMSERVER.dsa-ac.de> Organization: DSA GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <4.2.0.58.20000403154145.00adb3a0@mail.clubnet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > At 01:19 +0200 04-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > >To go with RAM disk, how about a flash farm? > >Two devices, both from Hitachi (I am sure others make similar stuff): > > The controller: an HN29W256H02TE-1 and up to 32 memory devices (eg > >HN29W25611). > > Thirty three chips and you have a gigabyte that looks like IDE. > > > >~80 mA during access, ~1.8 mA during standby. > > > > > >~ 8 MB / Sec I/O. > > > >I haven't built one (yet) so I don't know if these specs are true... > > I would be surprised if you could do 8M/sec writing to those devices; a > casual glance suggests it may be below 1M/sec. It's probably better to buy > a solution like this pre-packaged (ie in a PCMCIA card), as that has the > benefit of economy of scale. I don't know of any DRAM based true IDE PCMCIA card, since I have been investigated this for some time. Could you tell me who makes these beasts? > > >Which reminds me. Does / will LART have any facilities for measuring its > >own power consumption? Possibly at least a shunt or two and a high > >precision ADC? > > Rev3 (the one in the hardware distribution) has 10mOhm shunts in Vin, Vcore > and Vio; we've used these to do Johan's dynamic power measurements (albeit > with external multimeters). There are plans for an ADC board though. > > JDB. > [whose tasks for today include figuring out whether those shunts can be > replaced by PCB traces] > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > --- DSA - Daten- und Systemtechnik GmbH Andreas Hofer Pascalstrasse 28 52076 Aachen- Oberforstbach Tel. : 0 24 08 - 94 92 43 FAX : 0 24 08 - 94 92 92 EMAIL: Andreas.Hofer@dsa-ac.de --- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 14:46:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06129 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:46:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06125 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:46:13 +0200 Received: from mailboy.huawei.com.cn ([202.96.135.134]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH00LOOSSVEX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:46:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from w15060 ([10.11.33.88]) by mailboy.huawei.com.cn (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA3210 for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 20:27:08 +0800 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:33:41 +0800 From: Jun Wu Subject: assembly To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001901bdd5a4$c096c0e0$58210b0a@w15060.huawei.com.cn> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Content-type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dear All! I'm new to LART. I notice the assembly for LART is different from ARM assembly(armasm). Where can I get any documents or manuals regarding it? Best regards Jun Wu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 15:21:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06196 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:21:29 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06192 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:21:28 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id PAA11053; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:20:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:20:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004041320.PAA11053@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: junw@sz.huawei.com.cn Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: assembly In-Reply-To: <001901bdd5a4$c096c0e0$58210b0a@w15060.huawei.com.cn> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:33:41 +0800, Jun Wu wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please set the date of your computer to a proper value. This confuses my mailer (and also myself)... > I'm new to LART. Welcome! > I notice the assembly for LART is different from ARM assembly(armasm). > > Where can I get any documents or manuals regarding it? That's because all LART software is compiled with the standard gcc compiler tool chain, and not with the ARM SDT. As far as I know, the GNU assembler uses a 4.2 BSD assembler derived syntax. It is described in the "as" manual which is most probably installed on your Linux system as an info file. Use an info reader like Emacs, XEmacs, info, or tkinfo. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 16:07:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06278 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:07:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06274 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:07:06 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH005JAWJL9H@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:07:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA15662; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:59:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:59:34 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: Great news for BGA equipped boards To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, "PLEB-HW-list (E-mail)" Message-id: <000301bf9e3e$02bd8900$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all I just talked to the production manager of the company that produces our electronics. He says he have tried BGA in small (10-20) runs with good results. He can't guarantee 100% yield but don't expect any problems either. He also have them X-rayed to ensure good connection. The only prerequisite is that the pads must be NiAu plated (not hot air leveled SnPb) or have a similar _flat_ surface. If you want I can set up a connection or you can contact them directly at GPV/Elbau A/S Lyngsoevej 8 DK-9600 Aars DENMARK Tel. +45 (72) 19 14 00 Fax. +45 (72) 19 14 01 Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 16:23:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06351 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:23:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06347 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:23:59 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSH006OCXA67E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:23:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10622; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:21:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:21:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: New ELF ramdisk In-reply-to: <200004040849.KAA09186@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Erik Mouw Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > So, it's available and pretty much working. The file can be retrieved > > from: > > > > ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ramdisk_img.gz > > Ehm, maybe you should rename it because there is also a file > ramdisk-img.gz in the same directory. Huh.. right. The old one has been renamed ramdisk_img.old.gz > One question: how did you make the file /etc/ld.so.cache? I can't find a > proper ldconfig to generate it. I have the impression that I only miss > that file to get it working (it alreay works with statically linked > binaries). This is not mandatory. It worked even without ld.so.cache before, as long as you have correct symlinks. I used ldconfig just because I didn't want to create all symlinks by hand. I used ldconfig from Titan-VI. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 18:45:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06675 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:45:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06671 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:45:13 +0200 Received: from skylla.rus.uni-stuttgart.DE (skylla.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [141.58.231.9]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSI00GAT3VDFP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:45:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gw-21.wh.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.166.242]) by skylla.rus.uni-stuttgart.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01411 for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:32:34 +0200 (MET DST erikyyy@erikyyy.de) Received: from erik by localhost with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12cWFm-0004S7-00; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:32:34 +0200 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:32:34 +0200 From: Erik Thiele Subject: self assembling robots To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000404183234.A17111@vulcain.yyydom> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk what would it need to build a robot capable of reproducing itself? i think about starting easy, so the robot for example doesn't solder it's PCB, but there are 10 PCB's on stock and it just has to put the PCB and other parts together and turn the power on. later the complexity of the resources (servos,pcbs,batteries) can be reduced and the complexity of the robot intelligence must be improved so that it can also reconstruct itself from the less complex parts. when just using a PCB (i consider something more primitive than a LART but a unix would be of great help to do useful development) and servos and the legs of bent wires, you can already construct interesting robots. but i guess a bit more complexity is needed to make them navigate, and they must be able to stick together another robot by picking up resources and putting them together. is this still pioneer work or has it already been done? URL? cu erik -- Name: Erik Thiele \\\\ Email: erikyyy@erikyyy.de o `QQ'_ IRC: erikyyy / __8 WWW: http://www.erikyyy.de/ ' ` -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 20:11:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06803 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:11:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06799 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:11:29 +0200 Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSI00JNE7V41H@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:11:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from utdallas.edu ([24.0.101.72]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000404180901.XDPI18422.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@utdallas.edu> for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:09:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 13:10:05 -0500 From: Bob Davis Subject: Things to look forward to... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38EA2FFD.D20D493A@utdallas.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.3.99-pre3 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dont know if this is completely relavent but it could be something to look forward to in a LART v2 or v3.... http://www.theregister.co.uk/000404-000007.html Bob Davis -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 20:35:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06847 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:35:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06843 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:35:22 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSI00JFW8YXR3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:35:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.142]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:37:22 -0600 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:31:08 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Re: self assembling robots To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00040412315701.02669@localhost.localdomain> Organization: AllBoot.Com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik, this is pioneering work. A guy named Von Neuman talked about the same thing though, his idea was more wild. His machines were supposed to assemble themselves out of raw material. They are called Von Newman robots. If I remember right he came up with the idea around 1947! Take a look at his work, he did some interesting stuff in information and game theory. regards Doug On Tue, 04 Apr 2000, you wrote: > what would it need to build a robot capable of reproducing itself? > i think about starting easy, so the robot for example doesn't solder > it's PCB, but there are 10 PCB's on stock and it just has to > put the PCB and other parts together and turn the power on. > > later the complexity of the resources (servos,pcbs,batteries) > can be reduced and the complexity of the robot intelligence must > be improved so that it can also reconstruct itself from the less > complex parts. > > when just using a PCB (i consider something more primitive than > a LART but a unix would be of great help to do useful development) > and servos and the legs of bent wires, you can already construct > interesting robots. > but i guess a bit more complexity is needed to make them navigate, > and they must be able to stick together another robot by picking up > resources and putting them together. > > is this still pioneer work or has it already been done? > > URL? > > cu > erik > > -- > Name: Erik Thiele \\\\ > Email: erikyyy@erikyyy.de o `QQ'_ > IRC: erikyyy / __8 > WWW: http://www.erikyyy.de/ ' ` > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Douglas Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 ------------------------------------------------------- -- Douglas Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 22:20:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07245 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:20:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07241 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:20:28 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSI0017QDU1FH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:20:27 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: self assembling robots In-reply-to: <20000404183234.A17111@vulcain.yyydom> To: Erik Thiele Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Erik Thiele wrote: > what would it need to build a robot capable of reproducing itself? Wow! Real soon that'll become a virus!!! Bill Joy wrote about his view on that subject. Really worth reading. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 4 23:08:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07412 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:08:27 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07408 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:08:26 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA13465; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:08:11 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:08:11 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004042108.XAA13465@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: erikyyy@erikyyy.de, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: self assembling robots In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:12:29 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Erik Thiele wrote: > >> what would it need to build a robot capable of reproducing itself? > > Wow! Real soon that'll become a virus!!! Aaargh! Noooooooo! That would mean LARTs everywhere you look! Although in my opinion everybody should have its own LART, this is too much for me! Erik ;-)) I think I'm gonna use JDB's "pigs can fly" signature for this message: -- "There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering." It starts with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of the non-gaseous byproducts." (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 00:32:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07661 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:32:14 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07657 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:32:13 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id AAA13741; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:30:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:30:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004042230.AAA13741@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: New ELF ramdisk In-Reply-To: <200004040849.KAA09186@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:49:50 +0200 (MET DST), Erik Mouw wrote: > On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: >> Tested on ADS ThinClient, but should work on anything else with a >> SA110 core too. > > I just tested it on a LART and it works. I hate to followup my own posts, but I'd like you to know that it also works with a Netwinder, though it needs "some" extra work: Unzip ramdisk and mount it on a Linux box using the loop device, NFS export that directory, put it in the dhcpd.conf file, put up a tftp directory with a proper Netwinder kernel, start Netwinder, wait for bootprompt, enter "boot diskless", Netwinder boots and NFS mounts the ramdisk, wait for the "login:" prompt. Easy, eh? ;-) Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 02:32:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08029 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:32:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08025 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:32:14 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSI008KVPFPFF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:32:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10862; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 20:30:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 20:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: New ELF ramdisk In-reply-to: <200004042230.AAA13741@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Erik Mouw Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:49:50 +0200 (MET DST), Erik Mouw wrote: > > On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > >> Tested on ADS ThinClient, but should work on anything else with a > >> SA110 core too. > > > > I just tested it on a LART and it works. > > I hate to followup my own posts, but I'd like you to know that it also > works with a Netwinder... Cool! :-) I should say that it also work on an EBSA285! :-) Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 07:28:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA08476 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:28:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08472 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:28:16 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSJ00CJU371VH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:28:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From mozart With LocalMail ; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:23:29 +1000 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:23:28 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Assebet JTAG In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@mozart.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, "utility account for group.pleb " , sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Cc: "Chagas, Jason" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ok can someone explain something to me. I just got an Assebet (SA-1110 evaluation board) and it has a PC parallel port to SA-1100 JTAG. The board doesn't appear to do any voltage translation for the JTAG_CLK and JTAG_TMS signals. Are they using 5volts from the PC for these signals (which is out of the chips max 3.6volt signal spec AFAIK) or am I missing something here? Anyone with a assebet tried using the parallel port JTAGing? Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 09:48:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08743 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:48:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08739 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:48:11 +0200 Received: from royal2.eicnet.de (royal2.eicnet.de [62.144.196.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSJ00IH59OB73@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:48:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from iserv.compu.lan (root@ppp-30.regio.net [192.135.7.158]) by royal2.eicnet.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22878; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:46:25 +0200 Received: from compulan.de ([192.168.1.210]) by iserv.compu.lan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29778; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:32:56 +0200 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:36:50 +0200 From: Michael Renzmann Subject: Re: self assembling robots To: Erik Thiele Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38EAED12.847526B0@compulan.de> Organization: CompuLAN Europe GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322h (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: de,en References: <20000404183234.A17111@vulcain.yyydom> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Erik. > what would it need to build a robot capable of reproducing itself? > i think about starting easy, so the robot for example doesn't solder > it's PCB, but there are 10 PCB's on stock and it just has to > put the PCB and other parts together and turn the power on. [...] > is this still pioneer work or has it already been done? I think there are some efforts going on in this sector, but I´m not quite sure. I suppose you speak german, so maybe you want to take a look at http://privat.schlund.de/r/roboland, which is one of my homepages that deals with robotics. I was quite busy in the last months, since about one and a half year I couldn´t find some time to work further on the page, and my interest in robotics decreased a bit in the meanwhile. But there is a link index that will possibly a help for you when starting to look around in the web for robotics resources. > cu > erik Bye, Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 13:49:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09226 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:49:45 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09222 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:49:44 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA16960; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:49:32 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:49:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004051149.NAA16960@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: awiggins@cse.unsw.edu.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, jason.chagas@intel.com Subject: Re: Assebet JTAG In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:23:28 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Ok can someone explain something to me. I just got an Assebet > (SA-1110 evaluation board) and it has a PC parallel port to SA-1100 JTAG. > The board doesn't appear to do any voltage translation for the JTAG_CLK > and JTAG_TMS signals. Are they using 5volts from the PC for these signals > (which is out of the chips max 3.6volt signal spec AFAIK) or am I missing > something here? > Anyone with a assebet tried using the parallel port JTAGing? Depends on the parallel port specs. If it uses the classic TTL scheme with a pull-up resistor, the maximum level is indeed not 5V. In that way it is a relatively safe hack (though still a hack) to connect it directly to the SA-1110 JTAG port, though it depends a bit on the overvoltage protection circuit in the SA-1110 JTAG port. It is also possible that there are some line drivers in the connection cable and that it is completely safe to connect the SA-1110 to the parallel port (sorry, we didn't got an Assabet, so I can't really help you on that ;-). Erik -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 13:51:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09242 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:51:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09238 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:51:32 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSJ00EUSKXU1J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:51:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09484 for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:31:47 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18469 for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:24:18 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:25:00 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: blob-1.0.6, and kernel address To: lart Message-id: <38EB228C.B797F41F@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I need to change the bootloader to suite our hardware. In main.h, there are defines of RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET and KERNEL_BLOCK_OFFSET? what are they used for? I am confused by their usage in main.c Is the kernel image has to be loaded into 0xc0008000? Can I load the bootloader itself to 0xC0000000 and run from RAM, so that I can write the kernel and ramdisk to flash? Thanks -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 23:52:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10757 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:52:59 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10751 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:52:57 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA19582; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004052152.XAA19582@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blob-1.0.6, and kernel address In-Reply-To: <38EB228C.B797F41F@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:25:00 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: > In main.h, there are defines of RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET and > KERNEL_BLOCK_OFFSET? what are they used for? I am confused by their > usage in main.c RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET and KERNEL_BLOCK_OFFSET are the address are offsets with respect to the start of the internal Flash. I can imagine the idea of an offset sounds a bit strange, so I'll explain: The LART has its internal (or main) Flash normally mapped at address 0x00000000 (all addresses I'm talking about are physical addresses). In that case, INT_FLASH_BASE is defined as CS0_BASE (see file flash.h). If we want to program the internal Flash, we plug a pre-programmed external Flash board on the LART. A single jumper on that board controls whether the external Flash will be mapped at 0x00000000 or at 0x08000000. If the external Flash is mapped at 0x00000000, the internal Flash will be mapped at 0x08000000. The trick is that the internal Flash is 32 bit wide, while the external bit wide. This can be easily detected by the StrongARM, and INT_FLASH_BASE will be defined as CS1_BASE. > Is the kernel image has to be loaded into 0xc0008000? Can I load the > bootloader itself to 0xC0000000 and run from RAM, so that I can write > the kernel and ramdisk to flash? The kernel will be loaded at KERNEL_RAM_BASE (also defined in main.h), the ramdisk at RAMDISK_RAM_BASE. You can run a second bootloader from RAM, but not at the same address as the kernel (or ramdisk) starts, because the download routines also store a downloaded kernel at KERNEL_RAM_BASE so you will overwrite the boot loader. As a ramdisk can be 3Mbyte at a maximum, choose an address beyond that range, so RAMDISK_RAM_BASE + 4Mbyte is a safe bet (if you have memory living at that range). You can't download the same boot loader to RAM, because it won't work due to some non-PIC code. Make a special boot loader to run in RAM. Have a look at the mailing list archive to see how to change the ld-script: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/list.php3#body?sd=1&sm=3&sy=2000&ed=30&em=4&ey=2000&sort=t&inl=&mid=200003292153.XAA09037%40duteinh.et.tudelft.nl Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 03:25:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11519 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:25:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11515 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:25:32 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSK0081XMMHUJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:25:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31822 for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:24:43 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24725 for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:17:15 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:17:56 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: blob-1.0.6, and kernel address To: lart Message-id: <38EBE5C4.8943F0D5@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004052152.XAA19582@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET and KERNEL_BLOCK_OFFSET are the address are offsets > with respect to the start of the internal Flash. I can imagine the idea of > an offset sounds a bit strange, so I'll explain: > > The LART has its internal (or main) Flash normally mapped at address > 0x00000000 (all addresses I'm talking about are physical addresses). In > that case, INT_FLASH_BASE is defined as CS0_BASE (see file flash.h). > > If we want to program the internal Flash, we plug a pre-programmed > external Flash board on the LART. A single jumper on that board controls > whether the external Flash will be mapped at 0x00000000 or at 0x08000000. > If the external Flash is mapped at 0x00000000, the internal Flash will be > mapped at 0x08000000. The trick is that the internal Flash is 32 bit wide, > while the external bit wide. This can be easily detected by the StrongARM, > and INT_FLASH_BASE will be defined as CS1_BASE. I understand it is the offset address, but as I recall, LART has only 4Mb flush, and RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET is defined as 0x00400000, it is already at the end of 4Mb flush. That is why I am confusing. In main.c (LINE 235), the only places that used it is: buflen = status->blockSize - RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET; As I understand status->blockSize is passed in from start.S. What's the alis_loop code doing, I traced one loop and cofused. > The kernel will be loaded at KERNEL_RAM_BASE (also defined in main.h), the > ramdisk at RAMDISK_RAM_BASE. Is that fixed for the kernel? could it be loaded to 0xc0000000? or the kernel need the memory region. > > You can't download the same boot loader to RAM, because it won't work due > to some non-PIC code. Make a special boot loader to run in RAM. Have a > look at the mailing list archive to see how to change the ld-script: Which part are the non-PIC code? Just curoius to know. What's the effort to make it relocatble? -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 04:51:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA11676 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:51:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA11672 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:51:44 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSK009NPQM34W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:51:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:45:32 +1000 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:45:26 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Assebet JTAG In-reply-to: <200004051149.NAA16960@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, jason.chagas@intel.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk It seems they are using 100ohm resistors in series with the signals going into the assebet. This was hidden in the parallel port plug of the cable. Cheers Adma On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > Depends on the parallel port specs. If it uses the classic TTL scheme with > a pull-up resistor, the maximum level is indeed not 5V. In that way it is > a relatively safe hack (though still a hack) to connect it directly to the > SA-1110 JTAG port, though it depends a bit on the overvoltage protection > circuit in the SA-1110 JTAG port. It is also possible that there are some > line drivers in the connection cable and that it is completely safe to > connect the SA-1110 to the parallel port (sorry, we didn't got an > Assabet, so I can't really help you on that ;-). > > > Erik > > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 21:15:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16729 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:15:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16725 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:15:20 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSM00HIR05IK3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:15:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.132]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:17:23 -0600 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:09:35 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00040613115100.06572@localhost.localdomain> Organization: AllBoot.Com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Darn, this sounds a lot like the LART motherboard. Does one of you work for ADS? http://linuxdevices.com/cgi-bin/news_view.cgi?newsid=NS7736362772 -- Douglas Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 21:40:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16818 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:40:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16814 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:40:01 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSM00IIA1ANLT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:40:01 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:32:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-reply-to: <00040613115100.06572@localhost.localdomain> To: Doug Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Doug wrote: > Darn, this sounds a lot like the LART motherboard. Does one of you work for ADS? I do. Well, sort of, in exchange for hardware. I ported Linux to the ThinClient. This support figured in my SA1100 patch for quite some time now and even pretty little pieces of it already reached linux-2.3.99-pre4-pre. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 22:58:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16996 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:58:55 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16992 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:58:55 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA25431; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:58:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:58:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004062058.WAA25431@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-Reply-To: <00040613115100.06572@localhost.localdomain> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:09:35 -0600, Doug wrote: > Darn, this sounds a lot like the LART motherboard. Does one of you work for > ADS? www.flatpanels.com sounds familiar. IIRC, there are a couple of them subscribed to the sa1100-linux mailing list. It's more a combination of a LART motherboard and a KSB. The picture of the board is a bit unclear. Although the press release talks about an SA1110, there is a SA1100 on the board (SA1110 comes in BGA only). I think they used a UCB 1200 for the "audio codec" and touchpad interface. I can't see which ethernet chip they used, but I think it's a Crystal 8900. The board is definitively bigger than 4 x 6 inches: the LART is that size, and this board is simply bigger. Anyway, just like PLEB, this board was made with slightly different design goal in mind, but with the same CPU. LART is minimal and uses the KSB for extra features, this board was meant for user interfaces. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 23:20:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17102 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:20:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17098 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:20:50 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSM00MGS5YIIH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:20:49 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:12:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-reply-to: <200004062058.WAA25431@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > It's more a combination of a LART motherboard and a KSB. The picture of > the board is a bit unclear. Although the press release talks about an > SA1110, there is a SA1100 on the board (SA1110 comes in BGA only). I think They have both. Probably fasing out SA1100's. > they used a UCB 1200 for the "audio codec" and touchpad interface. I can't > see which ethernet chip they used, but I think it's a Crystal 8900. The It's a SMC 91C94. > board is definitively bigger than 4 x 6 inches: the LART is that size, and > this board is simply bigger. I have one on my desk at home. I can measure it for you if you want. > Anyway, just like PLEB, this board was made with slightly different design > goal in mind, but with the same CPU. LART is minimal and uses the KSB for > extra features, this board was meant for user interfaces. And it existed long time ago... but it only ran Win CE until recently. Let's make Linux run on everything, from mainframes to toasters!! Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 6 23:49:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17172 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:49:59 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17168 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:49:59 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA25651; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:49:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:49:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004062149.XAA25651@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:12:48 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> they used a UCB 1200 for the "audio codec" and touchpad interface. I can't >> see which ethernet chip they used, but I think it's a Crystal 8900. The > > It's a SMC 91C94. Ah, OK. That's the chip from the SMC 9000 series ethernet card. >> board is definitively bigger than 4 x 6 inches: the LART is that size, and >> this board is simply bigger. > > I have one on my desk at home. I can measure it for you if you want. They had to do a redesign for the SA1110 anyway, so maybe the new version is smaller. Can you measure it? I'll see if I can find something with Stonehenge Units, so I can measure the exact dimensions of the LART in inches. > Let's make Linux run on everything, from mainframes to toasters!! I'm trying to get a VAX 6000, it would be nice to run Linux on that piece of big iron ;-). Erik -- unix soit qui mal y pense -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 7 04:03:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA17720 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:03:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA17716 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:03:00 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSM005GEJ0MJV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:03:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22352; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 22:00:56 -0400 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 22:00:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-reply-to: <200004062149.XAA25651@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Erik Mouw Cc: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk 6X8.5 15X22 On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:12:48 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > I have one on my desk at home. I can measure it for you if you want. > > They had to do a redesign for the SA1110 anyway, so maybe the new version > is smaller. Can you measure it? I'll see if I can find something with > Stonehenge Units, so I can measure the exact dimensions of the LART in > inches. The one I have is SA1100 based. It is 6 x 8.5 inch, or 15 x 22 cm. > > Let's make Linux run on everything, from mainframes to toasters!! > > I'm trying to get a VAX 6000, it would be nice to run Linux on that piece > of big iron ;-). One of my friend is looking for a PDP-11... :-) Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 7 04:17:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA17742 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:17:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA17738 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:17:53 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSM0063WJPRJU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 04:17:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.124]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:19:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:13:01 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Re: Applied Data Systems (ADS) has unveiled this;........... StrongARM SBC targets Linux-based embedded GUIs In-reply-to: To: Nicolas Pitre , Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00040620143301.00945@localhost.localdomain> Organization: AllBoot.Com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Did you see the price for a finished board? $500.00 in small quantities. For a lot of purposes, this price point would make a lot of applications impossible to market. On Thu, 06 Apr 2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > 6X8.5 > 15X22 > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:12:48 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > I have one on my desk at home. I can measure it for you if you want. > > > > They had to do a redesign for the SA1110 anyway, so maybe the new version > > is smaller. Can you measure it? I'll see if I can find something with > > Stonehenge Units, so I can measure the exact dimensions of the LART in > > inches. > > The one I have is SA1100 based. It is 6 x 8.5 inch, or 15 x 22 cm. > > > > Let's make Linux run on everything, from mainframes to toasters!! > > > > I'm trying to get a VAX 6000, it would be nice to run Linux on that piece > > of big iron ;-). > > One of my friend is looking for a PDP-11... :-) > > > Nicolas -- Douglas Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 7 10:41:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18375 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:41:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18371 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:41:23 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSN00FY91GW2H@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:41:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28260 for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:42:41 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29825 for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:35:12 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:35:52 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: how the kernel knows where to look for ramdisk? To: lart Message-id: <38ED9DE8.B46D2248@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have the board similar to LART but different in some way (memory layout and flash layout). I managed to get the kernel booted, and stoped at the point of ramdisk initilized. How do I change the default ramsize? How could the kernel knows where to look for the ramdisk? What are the kernel files that I need to change? Thanks -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 7 11:42:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18591 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:42:06 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18586; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:42:02 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38ED9DE8.B46D2248@krdl.org.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:40:02 +0200 To: zhu qun ying From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: how the kernel knows where to look for ramdisk? Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 10:35 +0200 07-04-2000, zhu qun ying wrote: >I have the board similar to LART but different in some way (memory layout and >flash layout). I managed to get the kernel booted, and stoped at the point of >ramdisk initilized. How do I change the default ramsize? How could the kernel >knows where to look for the ramdisk? What are the kernel files that I need to >change? function setup_arch, in arch/arm/kernel/setup.c HTH, JDB. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 9 03:52:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22255 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 03:52:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22251 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 03:52:34 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSQ00CN87VFS7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 03:52:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12773 for ; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:57:22 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26984 for ; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:49:49 +0800 (SGT) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:50:34 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: blob booting and ramdisk To: lart Message-id: <38EFE1EA.1A873B7F@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I compiled kernel 2.3.99-pre3-rmk1-np2. downloaded to ram with no problem. The problem comes when I try to boot the kernel, I am ended up as the boot message attached below. I am using Nicolas' new ramdisk. I suspect the problem is because of my hardware is different from LART, but I need someone to point me to the right starting point. The hardware board I am using also has 32 MB RAM, but they are not continues, 16 MB is at address 0xc0000000 and another 16 MB at 0xD0000000. while enable blob's debug information, the c_main() is passed in with 0xd0000000 and 0x1000000. Is the ramdisk size predefined in the kernel? Where are the related files? I am confused by the alias detection code in start.S, what is it use for? detecting memory size of starting address? In c_main(), there is a line to calculate buffer length: bufLen = status->blockSize - RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET While RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET is defined as 0x00400000. As Erik said it is the address offset with respect to the start of the internal Flash. But LART is designed with 4 M flash only, how can the RAMDISK_BLOCK_OFFSET at offset 0x00400000? Thanks ========== boot message ========= Starting kernel ... Uncompressing Linux................................ done, booting the kernel. Linux version 2.3.99-pre3-rmk1-np2 (qyzhu@edge2) (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)) #22 Fri Apr 7 22:24:57 SGT 2000 Architecture: SA1100-based On node 0 totalpages: 69632 zone(0): 69632 pages. zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS Memory: 16MB 16MB = 32MB total Memory: 26752KB available (849K code, 419K data, 4K init) Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Page-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes) POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.3 Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0 IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes TCP: Hash tables configured (established 2048 bind 2048) Starting kswapd v1.6 SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled ttyS00 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART ttyS01 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 8192K size 1024 blocksize ====================================================================== -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 9 19:37:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23169 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:37:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23165 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:37:51 +0200 Received: from localhost.localdomain (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSR0022GFN06E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:37:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (IDENT:hbelange@webster [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02388 for ; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 00:37:22 -0400 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 00:37:21 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: LART PC Board Build To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F00901.5E9A2D15@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Good Morning All I'm interested in getting my hand on a couple of LART & KSB does anyone out there want to sale me some ? I'm also curious to hear about everyones current success/failure with this hardware. I.e. Does anyone use it for anything specific yet ? or is it still to soon for mass production ? Hugues Belanger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 9 19:54:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23187 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:54:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23183 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:53:57 +0200 Received: from snail.ecs.umass.edu (snail.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSR0028RGD96E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:53:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from odo.ecs.umass.edu (odo.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.174]) by snail.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14562 for ; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mcrichto@localhost) by odo.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id NAA23704 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 13:38:32 -0400 From: Mark Crichton Subject: Memory subsystem of LART board To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: crichton@gimp.org Message-id: <20000409133832.A23633@odo.ecs.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, Can someone help a neophyte in electronics with something about the LART schematic. Looking at it, I've noticed that the memory does not get the A0 or A1 pins from the CPU. Is there a reason for this, or should I re-read the FM for the SA1100 ;) Thanks, Mark -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 10 00:35:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23568 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:35:07 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA23563; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:35:00 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000409133832.A23633@odo.ecs.umass.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:33:09 +0200 To: crichton@gimp.org From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Memory subsystem of LART board Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:38 +0200 09-04-2000, Mark Crichton wrote: >Looking at it, I've noticed that the memory does not get the A0 or A1 pins >from the CPU. Is there a reason for this, or should I re-read the FM for >the SA1100 ;) The flash is 32-bit wide; the address bus addresses bytes. As flash reads/writes are always aligned to a four-byte boundary, A1 and A0 are always zero. I'm sure the 400-page FM has this info somewhere ;-) JDB. -- In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- RFC 1925, "Fundamental Truths of Networking" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 10 01:36:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23802 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:36:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23798 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:36:55 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSR009HCW9EMR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:36:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:32:45 +1000 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:32:45 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Memory subsystem of LART board In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: crichton@gimp.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 19:38 +0200 09-04-2000, Mark Crichton wrote: > >Looking at it, I've noticed that the memory does not get the A0 or A1 pins > >from the CPU. Is there a reason for this, or should I re-read the FM for > >the SA1100 ;) > > The flash is 32-bit wide; the address bus addresses bytes. As flash > reads/writes are always aligned to a four-byte boundary, A1 and A0 are > always zero. Hmm let me see I made that mistake ;) Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 10 03:43:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA23928 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 03:43:16 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA23923; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 03:43:07 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 03:38:03 +0200 To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Memory subsystem of LART board Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 01:32 +0200 10-04-2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: >On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> The flash is 32-bit wide; the address bus addresses bytes. As flash >> reads/writes are always aligned to a four-byte boundary, A1 and A0 are >> always zero. > > Hmm let me see I made that mistake ;) And I didn't catch it when I reviewed the miniPLEB design ? Shame on me ;-) JDB. -- "Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press any key to reboot." -- Arne Damvin in asr -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 11 00:06:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26386 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 00:06:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26382 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 00:06:15 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FST00GDDMQDKU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 00:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id PAA694030 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 15:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 15:01:08 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Programming LART Flash for the first time To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38F24F24.401522B1@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B569159D40057E737AB7A503" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B569159D40057E737AB7A503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, The text segment below was extracted from the file "Readme" in the blob-1.0.6 distribution. As you can see there is a reference to a "PCI 7200 (???) digital I/O card with a Linux driver" I am assuming this card is used to place boot code in the Intel DT28F160F3B FLASH memory so that it can be programmed AFTER board has been assembled. QUESTIONS: 1.) Is the PCI 7200 (???) card a standard commercial product? 2.) If so, who is the manufacturer? 3.) What is the correct part number to reference? 4.) What is it's approximate cost? 5.) Where can we obtain the Linux Driver's for the card? 6.) Is there any reason why the Mainboard boot code segment can't be reprogrammed multiple times using the PCI card above? (In case you make mistakes or you would like to use the board to run a small RTOS kernel.) On a related subject, I placed an order for a group of LART PC Boards last week. The board fabricator is promising a 24 April delivery date. This order is just for the bare PC Boards not the assembled units. I'll post the results of this prototype run right after I've had a chance to check the PC boards to see if they were fabricated correctly. Greg Fountain Menlo Park, California ** Installing ********************************************** ------------- Use whatever tool you need to download the blob image (src/blob) at address 0x00000000 of your SA-1100 target. The LART project currently uses the following wisdom to install blob: Required hardware & software: - The LART itself with 4 Mbyte flash memory - An external 128 kbyte flash board - A PCI 7200 (???) digital I/O card with a Linux driver - A flash burn program for this I/O card The external flash board is connected to the PCI 7200 card and blob is written into the flash memory using the flash burn program. The external flash board is connected to the LART low speed interface. The external flash chip is mapped at address 0x00000000, and the internal flash is remapped at 0x08000000. As soon as the LART boots, the external flash is copied to the first 128 kbyte of the internal flash. The next time the LART is started without external flash board, it starts from its internal flash which now contains the just downloaded blob. ********************************************************** --------------B569159D40057E737AB7A503 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------B569159D40057E737AB7A503-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 11 05:29:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA27085 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:29:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27081 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:29:49 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSU00M1C1PLRY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:29:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12564 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:36:05 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07656 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:28:30 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:29:13 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: blob booting and ramdisk To: lart Message-id: <38F29C09.8A38E4DC@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <38EFE1EA.1A873B7F@krdl.org.sg> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I solved my problems. It is because of one line of code that cause the kernel to wait for the timeout, and I thought the kernel is dead. And I believe everyone using the 2.3.99-pre3-rmk1-np2 kernel for a LART like hardware will have this problem. In file drivers/block/ll_rw_blk.c, the macro FLOPPY_BOOT_DISABLE is defined for __i386__ and __arm__. For my hardware has no floppy controller at all, so the code at line 1043 (possiblly not the exact number for I had change a little of it), outb_p(0xc, 0x3f2) casued the kernel wait for quite a long time. Just commented the line or undef FLOPPY_BOOT_DISABLE will solved the problem. Have fun! -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 11 13:17:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27944 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:17:42 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27939; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:17:36 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F29C09.8A38E4DC@krdl.org.sg> References: <38EFE1EA.1A873B7F@krdl.org.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:16:44 +0200 To: zhu qun ying From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: blob booting and ramdisk Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:29 +0200 11-04-2000, zhu qun ying wrote: >Hi, > >I solved my problems. It is because of one line of code that cause the kernel >to wait for the timeout, and I thought the kernel is dead. > >And I believe everyone using the 2.3.99-pre3-rmk1-np2 kernel for a LART like >hardware will have this problem. In file drivers/block/ll_rw_blk.c, the macro >FLOPPY_BOOT_DISABLE is defined for __i386__ and __arm__. >For my hardware has no floppy controller at all, so the code at line 1043 >(possiblly not the exact number for I had change a little of it), outb_p(0xc, >0x3f2) casued the kernel wait for quite a long time. Just commented the line >or undef FLOPPY_BOOT_DISABLE will solved the problem. Good spotting. What happens is probably this: your hardware doesn't connect nPWAIT on the StrongARM. This pin floats to ground (active); when you do the outb_p the processor waits until (a) nPWAIT goes high, (b) the processor is restarted or (c) hell freezes over; whichever happens first. I'll see if I can add a weak pull-up to LART Rev 4 to avoid hangs like this one. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 11 20:24:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28756 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:24:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28752 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:24:42 +0200 Received: from navigator.sw.com.sg (navigator.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.131]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSV002BP754BV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:24:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from exchruhydro.sw.com.sg (exchruhydro.sw.com.sg [195.16.40.3]) by navigator.sw.com.sg (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05787 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:56:38 +0400 (MSD) Received: from cyber (cyber.int.sw.ru [195.16.40.122]) by exchruhydro.sw.com.sg with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 2WRT0SX9; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:52:08 +0400 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:51:56 +0400 From: "Gennadiy M. Kurtsman" Subject: Linux debugger ? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001201bfa3de$a0ffa940$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello everybody, have you an experience of Linux application debugging on StrongARM-based boards? Is there gdb or other debuggers? Some time ago I read ARM-Linux GDB document at http://www.netwinder.org/ . I downloaded gdb package. It looks like gdb works on remote PC communicating with Angel debugger (or JTAG ICE) on ARM board. I don't understand how can I debug Linux application in this environment. Unfortunately now I can not load netwinder's site and ask author directly. Any hint about ARM-Linux debuggers will be greatly appreciated. Gennadiy. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 11 20:59:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28838 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:59:59 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28834 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:59:58 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA20118; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:59:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:59:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004111859.UAA20118@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: krtsmn@sw.ru Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Linux debugger ? In-Reply-To: <001201bfa3de$a0ffa940$7a2810c3@cyber.sw.ru> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:51:56 +0400, Gennadiy M. Kurtsman wrote: > have you an experience of Linux application debugging on StrongARM-based > boards? Is there gdb or other debuggers? Some time ago I read ARM-Linux GDB > document at http://www.netwinder.org/ . I downloaded gdb package. It looks > like gdb works on remote PC communicating with Angel debugger (or JTAG ICE) > on ARM board. I don't understand how can I debug Linux application in this > environment. Unfortunately now I can not load netwinder's site and ask > author directly. Any hint about ARM-Linux debuggers will be greatly > appreciated. I don't have experience with gdb on ARM, partly because I hardly use debuggers (lots of assert()s and some printf()s will do the same), and if use them at all, I only want to get a backtrace from the core file. But anyway, AFAIK the latest native gdb from netwinder.org works on a StrongARM: it works on the Netwinder, so it should work on everything else. If you want more information, check out the the linux-arm mailing list archives because it has been discussed quite recently (a link is available on the "Documentation" page on the LART site). About the netwinder.org network problems: some people seem to have problems to reach netwinder.org at all, others only have DNS problems. Check out if you can connect to them using the IP address: 207.245.35.202. Both www.netwinder.org and ftp.netwinder.org map to this IP address. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 12 01:49:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA29684 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:49:54 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA29680; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:49:46 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F24F24.401522B1@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:49:17 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Programming LART Flash for the first time Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Greg, The LART has two ways of getting data into the main flash: external (bootstrap) Flash and JTAG. If you pull nBOOT_EXT on J3 low, the LART will boot from a 16-bit wide external memory device connected to the low speed bus (J2-J4). When I had to bring the first LARTs online I built a Flash card and a Flash programmer, which unfortunately depend on a chip Intel no longer manufactures (the PA28F200) and a high-speed PCI digital interface card (the PCI-7200) which I happened to have lying around. This was a quick hack just to get the thing working. A cleaner way is to use JTAG. JTAG is a serial test interface which allows you to enable a test mode on a chip in which you can read all inputs and control all outputs. Adam has this working (for PLEB); he's now designing a generic JTAG programming tool. I am hacking at a LART-specific piece of software which allows you to use the PC parallel port with a $2 buffer chip to program the main flash devices thru JTAG. Eventually I intend to merge my code with Adam. So if you're rolling your own LARTs, you have three options: - wait for either Adam or me to finish a parallel port JTAG programmer (cheapest) - if you have (access to) an EPROM/Flash programmer, you can design/solder/wirewrap your own external bootmem. It's no rocket science; it'll take you an afternoon worst-case. - if you have an assembled LART and want it to work *now*, just holler and I'll FedEx one of my spare bootmem boards. The Flash on the Intel mainboard has at least 10,000 erase cycles so yes you can program it over and over again. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 12 03:14:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29820 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 03:14:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29814 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 03:14:53 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FSV00F4NQ4PFJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 03:14:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:10:34 +1000 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:10:34 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Programming LART Flash for the first time In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: greg.fountain@telvex.com, Lart Mail Server Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi Greg, > > The LART has two ways of getting data into the main flash: external > (bootstrap) Flash and JTAG. > > A cleaner way is to use JTAG. JTAG is a serial test interface which allows > you to enable a test mode on a chip in which you can read all inputs and > control all outputs. Adam has this working (for PLEB); he's now designing a > generic JTAG programming tool. I am hacking at a LART-specific piece of > software which allows you to use the PC parallel port with a $2 buffer chip > to program the main flash devices thru JTAG. Eventually I intend to merge > my code with Adam. Surly $2 is more expensive then the series resistor technique of the ASSEBET JTAG - PC Parallel Port Cable. As JDB said though my generic JTAG will work with a PC parallel port once its done ;) Chers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 12 05:22:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA30064 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:22:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA30060 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:22:37 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSV00H5FW1M91@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:22:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24847; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:28:35 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17732; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:21:01 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:21:44 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: respawing too fast? To: lart , arm Message-id: <38F3EBC8.F90B85C2@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I have the system up and running on a SA1100 board similar to LART, but I have this error message every now and then: INIT: Id "1" respawing too fast: disabled for 5 minutes INIT: Id "2" respawing too fast: disabled for 5 minutes and my ps listing: PID TTY TIME CMD 1 0,0 00:00:03 init 2 0,0 00:00:00 kswapd 3 0,0 00:00:00 kflushd 4 0,0 00:00:00 kupdate 34 0,0 00:00:00 syslogd 50 0,0 00:00:00 inetd 56 4,64 00:00:00 bash 152 4,64 00:00:00 ps I am wondering what is the cause of this message? I am not sure who starts kswapd, kflushed and kupdate? Are they started by kernel? Since the system is running on a diskless hardware, swaping is not necessary, how could I disable them? -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 12 05:37:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA30103 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:37:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA30099 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:37:07 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSV00H9UWPT9K@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:37:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02331; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:36:54 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: respawing too fast? In-reply-to: <38F3EBC8.F90B85C2@krdl.org.sg> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: zhu qun ying Cc: lart , arm Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > Hi all, > > I have the system up and running on a SA1100 board similar to LART, but I have > this error message every now and then: > > INIT: Id "1" respawing too fast: disabled for 5 minutes > INIT: Id "2" respawing too fast: disabled for 5 minutes In the ramdisk image, look in etc/inittab for some "getty" on tty1 and tty2. Comment out those two lines. > I am not sure who starts kswapd, kflushed and kupdate? Are they started by > kernel? Yes. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 09:58:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00833 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:58:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00829 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:58:28 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSY0007R3HDK7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:58:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17896 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:01:19 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14733 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:53:43 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:54:23 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: GPIOs for StrongARM 1100 To: lart Message-id: <38F57D2F.AA1C8921@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I just want to confirm the usage of GPIO pins in the hardware of LART, besides the 2 pins for serial communications, does any other pin is used by Linux? I am going to implement a parallel interface by GPIO pins, I want to make usre no other pins is used. Even for the alternative serial pins, I need them to be used for other purposes, so any other part of the kernel will make use of the 2 pins? I disable the usage of these 2 pins in the kernel and did not get into trouble so far. Thanks. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 16:17:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01542 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:17:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01538 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:17:35 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSY0052SL18WD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:17:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id HAA1161764 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 07:12:26 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: J1 Connector on LART To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38F5D5CA.A1CC15CC@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CC220E6CFB31FBB2D5AB43AD" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CC220E6CFB31FBB2D5AB43AD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if it might be possible to get the Manufacture and Part Number for the Surface Mount J1 connector on the top side of the LART Mainboard. Greg Fountain Menlo Park, California USA --------------CC220E6CFB31FBB2D5AB43AD Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------CC220E6CFB31FBB2D5AB43AD-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 16:29:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01592 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:29:56 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01587; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:29:52 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F5D5CA.A1CC15CC@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:29:41 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: J1 Connector on LART Cc: Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 16:12 +0200 13-04-2000, Greg Fountain wrote: >I was wondering if it might be possible to get the Manufacture and Part >Number for the Surface Mount J1 connector on the top side of the LART >Mainboard. It's a FCI (formerly Berg) 61082-101000. See http://catalog.fciconnect.com/fci/red/partnumber/..\datasheet\datasheet.asp?Prod uctNumber=61082-101009 for the datasheet. Farnell Europe carries it, for about US$3 in qty one. HTH, JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 22:22:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02333 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:22:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02329 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:22:14 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSZ0021L1X04L@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:22:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id NAA1228649 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:17:08 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: eCos for LART To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38F62B44.67F2C743@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------13EB4941FF3DEFF5A147A2FB" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------13EB4941FF3DEFF5A147A2FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone has taken a serious look at what it would take to do an eCos port for the LART Greg --------------13EB4941FF3DEFF5A147A2FB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------13EB4941FF3DEFF5A147A2FB-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 22:27:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02353 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:27:26 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02349 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:27:26 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA04581; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004132027.WAA04581@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: eCos for LART In-Reply-To: <38F62B44.67F2C743@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:17:08 -0700, Greg Fountain wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has taken a serious look at what it would take > to do an eCos port for the LART Not that I am aware of. I had a short look after eCos was released, but not more than that. It shouldn't be impossible though, given the experience Cygnus has on embedded platforms. #include Erik -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 13 22:33:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02381 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:33:47 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02377 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:33:47 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA04611; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:33:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:33:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004132033.WAA04611@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: GPIOs for StrongARM 1100 In-Reply-To: <38F57D2F.AA1C8921@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:54:23 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: > I just want to confirm the usage of GPIO pins in the hardware of LART, besides > the 2 pins for serial communications, does any other pin is used by Linux? I > am going to implement a parallel interface by GPIO pins, I want to make usre > no other pins is used. Even for the alternative serial pins, I need them to be > used for other purposes, so any other part of the kernel will make use of the > 2 pins? I disable the usage of these 2 pins in the kernel and did not get into > trouble so far. It all depends on the hardware. If you attach an LCD and enable the LCD driver, the LCD GPIOs are reserved for the LCD (surprise, surprise ;-). If the KSB is connected to the LART and the correct drivers are loaded, a couple of GPIOs are reserved for the KSB devices. The kernel won't see that you changed the assignment of the GPIO pins. AFAIK, the SA1100 manual says (for almost all devices) that devices won't get any I/O if they don't map the I/O pins onto the GPIO pins. Erik -- Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes" use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 01:04:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02869 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:04:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02865 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:04:11 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSZ007CT9EY9G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:04:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22567 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from terus.envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04496 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:51:29 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: eCos for LART To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38F64F71.BC84C77D@terus.envmtl.com> Organization: Terus Environmental Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38F62B44.67F2C743@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Greg, As I mentioned to you in our previous email awhile ago now, we've been working with eCos using 1.2.1 and some locally hacked cross-platform tools, but as your no doubt aware Cygnus has recently released (end of March) eCos 1.3.1 which now has explicit support for Intel's EBSA285 eval brd. which is based on the SA-110 so the HAL is basically in place now. The high degree of configurability throughout the OS makes it really flexible and a good fit for what we're working on anyway and in addition to Cygnus's efforts with EL/IX in the embedded Linux community and the fact that they have already integrated the ARMulator into GDB as a simulator - virtually instanteous GDB downloads (while you wait for your LARTs to come off the production line... :-) Certainly, a LART bsp would seem a very good idea. However I should point out that while there are two versions of eCos 1.3.1 toolset (Linux & NT), Cygnus appears to have placed more initial emphasis on the NT platform with a GUI based config tool not available under Linux. Also the NT version is leveraged off of their Cygwin product for development tools. Anyway, as we speak Cygnus is apparently only hours away from releasing the latest tools needed by the NT version of eCos 1.3.1. Also with the 1.3.1 release is a TCP/IP beta stack from the OpenBSD codebase which is attracting some attention to smooth out a few rough edges... otherwise what were you thinking of in terms of boot loaders, etc (e.g. is merging GDB support into Blob a worthy cause ?) Terry Greg Fountain wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has taken a serious look at what it would take > to do an eCos port for the LART > > Greg -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 17:59:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09563 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:29 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09542 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:27 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA07870 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:30:57 +0200 (METDST) Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA32635 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:30:57 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004140230.EAA32635@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Consider yourself slashdotted! To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:30:57 +0200 (MEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Congratulations everyone! It appears we have made it to Slashdot, http://www.slashdot.org/ with a snippet from the LART FAQ: Build Your Own StrongARM Linux Computer Posted by timothy on Thursday April 13, @07:31PM from the hide-it-in-your-TI-calulator's-case dept. krp writes: "From the LART FAQ page: 'The LART is a small yet powerful embedded [ image of a nut ] computer capable of running Linux. Its performance is around 250 MIPS while consuming less than 1 Watt of power. In a standard configuration it holds 32MB DRAM and 4MB Flash ROM, which is sufficient for a Linux kernel and a sizeable ramdisk image.' Full schematics and CAD files for the main board, kitchen sink board, the boot loader (BLOB) and patches for the Linux kernel are available for download as well as various software tools. This tiny machine could be ideal for embedded / portable / wearable applications -- there are some pictures (including a LART running off a small batttery!) in l'ART gallery. " ( Read More... | 28 of 68 comments ) ...it also appears the server is having a lot of trouble keeping up with the number of requests while I'm writing this (Thu Apr 13 22:10:29 EST 2000 == Fri Apr 14 04:10:58 MEST 2000 - well, almost). People have even spotted the intended pun in the name of the device: Doh! Wrong acronym! (Score:2, Funny) by skip277 (skippy@columbus.rr.com) on Thursday April 13, @07:40PM EST (#9) (User Info) http://home.columbus.rr.com/skippy And here I thought a LART was a Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool. Doh! Skippy "False modesty is the refuge of the incompetent." - The Stainless Steel Rat But there are some people out there who can see through the diplomatic wording: Re:Doh! Wrong acronym! (Score:1) by stercus on Thursday April 13, @07:46PM EST (#21) (User Info) That's what we officially call it anyway; as with all four-letter acronyms, it is just possible that LART is overloaded. they want to IMPLY the regular meaning of LART, but not REALLY call it that si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Ok, so we're famous now. What next? World domination? -- Marc e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? __ __^__ __________ | \ +---/ \---+ (==========) |____\___________ +---\_____/---+ // >____)| | \__ \ \______//___ >/ |________| \ [ _____\ |____________________\ \_______/ Roger, go at throttle up CHR$(32), the final frontier ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 17:58:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09123 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09093 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA14844 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:18:56 +0200 (METDST) Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSZ00L0BZ3HUX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:18:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30339; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:15:52 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29121; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:08:15 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:08:58 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: need advice on parallel port implementation To: lart , arm Message-id: <38F6D21A.675368EE@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wRVBnU9/3J4oXiPR+gU/6A)" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_wRVBnU9/3J4oXiPR+gU/6A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hi all, I have a rough implementation of parallel port using GPIO pins. I have not finished the whole implementation yet, but I need some advice and help for I am quit new to the kernel programming. There are few points that I am not clear and hope someone in the net will have the answer. The hardware board I am using is quite similar to LART. 1. How much do I need to take care of the signaling? For example, in parport_arm_write_data(), do I need to code the whole write cycle signaling or the upper layer will do it through the control functions. (If I correctly understand what the control functions do.) How much control is needed at this level? 2. To register the port, I need to pass base address, irq, dma information to parport_register_port(). I am confusing on which base address I should use, I definitely can't pick one address randomly? Do I need IRQ? If needed, how is going to be realized in StrongARM? DMA? Could I use it? Or ignore it for simplify the job. I attached one copy of my code for your review and advice. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com --Boundary_(ID_wRVBnU9/3J4oXiPR+gU/6A) Content-type: application/x-unknown-content-type-cfile; name=parport_arm.c Content-disposition: inline; filename=parport_arm.c Content-transfer-encoding: base64 LyogTG93LWxldmVsIHBhcmFsbGVsIHBvcnQgcm91dGluZXMgZm9yIFN0cm9uZ0FSTSBTQTEx MDANCiAqIA0KICogQXV0aG9yOiBaaHUgUXVuIFlpbmcgPHF5emh1QGtyZGwub3JnLnNnPg0K ICoNCiAqIENvcHlyaWdodCAoQykgMjAwMA0KICoNCiAqIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIHVuZGVyIHRl cm1zIG9mIEdQTA0KICogdXNlIEdQSU8gcGlucyBmb3IgcGFyYWxsZWwgaW50ZXJmYWNlIA0K ICovDQoNCi8qIEZvciBteSBib2FyZCwgdGhlIHBpbiBsYXlvdXQgaXMgYXMgZm9sbG93cw0K ICoNCiAqIEdQSU8zOgljb250cm9sIGJ1ZmZlciBkaXJlY3Rpb24gY29udHJvbCAoMSBmb3J3 YXJkIGFsd2F5cykNCiAqIEdQSU8yOglkYXRhIGJ1ZmZlciBkaXJlY3Rpb24gY29udHJvbCAo 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RAA09708 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:57 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09685 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA07515 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:06:42 +0200 (METDST) Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSZ00A1MHV5X3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:06:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04294; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:04:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:04:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: How to make small glibc2 for ramdisk usage In-reply-to: <38F670F6.6EE7985A@krdl.org.sg> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: zhu qun ying Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to make my own ramdisk, and I need your advice. As you are using > glibc 2.1.2, how do you make the library small enough to fit into the ramdisk. > I mean normally when you compile a full set of glibc2, it may take more than > 3MB. Just 'strip' it. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 17:59:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09714 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:58 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09688 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:59:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA06806 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 03:15:53 +0200 (METDST) Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FSZ00992FIEJ7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 03:15:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16271; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:21:22 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00610; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:13:45 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:14:30 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: How to make small glibc2 for ramdisk usage To: Nicolas Pitre , lart Message-id: <38F670F6.6EE7985A@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I am trying to make my own ramdisk, and I need your advice. As you are using glibc 2.1.2, how do you make the library small enough to fit into the ramdisk. I mean normally when you compile a full set of glibc2, it may take more than 3MB. Thanks -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 18:18:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11116 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:18:43 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11076; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:18:24 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004140140.LAA29985@minbar.b5.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:09:36 +0200 To: Raoul Endres From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: lart midi? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >I'm extremely interesed in the lart for use with midi to sync up >midi instruments with audio and to crontrol lighting equipment (strobes etc) >with a live audio input. >Any hope of someone looking into this - all it would take is a couple of >midi ports (one in, one out?). I haven't got a clue about hardware design, >so I'm hopeing someone may be interested :) The SA-1100 has three serial ports that can be configured for RS232 operation. As MIDI is nothing more than RS232 with odd voltage levels at an odd clock; I expect this to be easily doable. Don't have the time for it myself tho. Any takers ? JD 'slashdotted' B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 18:22:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11334 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:22:09 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11330 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:22:07 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id SAA10648; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:22:05 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:22:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004141622.SAA10648@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Consider yourself slashdotted! In-Reply-To: <200004140230.EAA32635@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:30:57 +0200 (MEST), Marc Joosen wrote: > Congratulations everyone! > > It appears we have made it to Slashdot, http://www.slashdot.org/ with a > snippet from the LART FAQ: Yeah, we found out the hard way... [snip] > ...it also appears the server is having a lot of trouble keeping up with the > number of requests while I'm writing this (Thu Apr 13 22:10:29 EST 2000 == That's correct. We didn't expect it, so Apache wasn't really tuned for this load. The system load was 130 this morning, but after some tuning the server keeps up very well and the load hovers at about 0.5. FYI: we currently have 15107 hits from unique hosts. > Fri Apr 14 04:10:58 MEST 2000 - well, almost). People have even spotted the > intended pun in the name of the device: [snip] > Ok, so we're famous now. What next? World domination? Sssssh! You fool! You're not supposed to talk about our secret pact with Linus... Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 18:23:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11430 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:23:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11426 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:23:29 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT00080DLJ3WP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:23:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.82]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16879 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:46:50 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:51:20 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: how does lart compare to itsy? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <005d01bfa62d$78e0c9c0$521e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk hi.. i'm new to this list and lart :) i have looked at lart's features. but i still can't help but ask this question: how does the lart compare to compaq's itsy? itsy also uses a strongarm cpu. it aims to incorporate speech recognition, etc. i understand that compaq's itsy switches off cpu, etc. when the palmheld is idle, and only keeps the display alive... i dunno if this is very convinient for implementing games where a constant framerate is needed even when no user input is available like in demo playbacks. - muks __ __ _ _ __ __ _/ .\__/ .\__/ Mukund Iyer 91.040.7059751 .\__/ .\__/ .\_ .\__/ .\__/ .\_ muks@hd2.dot.net.in _/ .\__/ .\__/ _/ \__/ \__/ http://conic.cx muks/irc.linux \__/ \__/ \_ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 18:36:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12397 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:36:40 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12393 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:36:39 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id SAA10744; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:36:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:36:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004141636.SAA10744@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: muks@hd2.dot.net.in Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: how does lart compare to itsy? In-Reply-To: <005d01bfa62d$78e0c9c0$521e36ca@muks> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:51:20 +0530, Mukund Iyer wrote: > hi.. i'm new to this list and lart :) Welcome, consider yourself LARTed! :-) > i have looked at lart's features. but i still > can't help but ask this question: > > how does the lart compare to compaq's itsy? > itsy also uses a strongarm cpu. it aims to > incorporate speech recognition, etc. It's just as LART vs. PLEB: the Itsy has other design goals, so that's why it is different from the LART. And of course LART has a different license; the Itsy design files are not free. > i understand that compaq's itsy switches off > cpu, etc. when the palmheld is idle, and > only keeps the display alive... i dunno if this > is very convinient for implementing games where > a constant framerate is needed even when no user > input is available like in demo playbacks. We do not yet switch off the CPU, because we need support in the kernel and the bootloader for that, and time is short... On the other hand: one of our current prototypes has clock and voltage scaling, and that's also quite a battery saver. We'll make more information available as soon as Johan's paper is accepted (Johan?). Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 19:39:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16577 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:39:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16572 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:39:51 +0200 Received: from ethereal (resnet-21-203.dorm.utexas.edu [129.116.21.203]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000B4ZP2E1M@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:39:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nolan by ethereal with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12gA4L-00052F-00 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:39:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:39:49 -0500 From: Nolan Darilek Subject: Possible use for LART? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello. I'm a Slashdotee; just saw the article and thought that this may be helpful for a pet project of mine which I've been toying with but didn't have the experience to work on. Would LART work well for this? First, I have little EE-ish experience. My experience consists primarily of software development, and very little with electronics. So, some of these questions will probably be non-LART-specific. If these types of questions aren't appropriate for this list, or are annoying for those of you who are doing serious work :), please direct me to any other resources which may help. I hung out in a few hardware-related newsgroups which claimed to discuss topics of this sort, but after the 100th question which (according to the old FAQ) was off-topic, I bolted. :) I want to design a MP3 player with specifications which are somewhat similar to the design at http://www.pjbox.com. Specifically, I'd like to support 4.8 gigs of storage space. There are some issues about that design that I don't like, however. It uses USB, and they don't sound very interested in supporting Linux (or at least, they didn't when I checked a few months ago.) Instead, I'd like to use an ethernet link, since I have a spare port. If I could simply hook up the MP3 player to the spare port, FTP songs into it and unplug it when I'm done, that'd be great. I'd also like to support output to headphones and a stereo system. My research seems to indicate that the headphone connection is non-amplified while the audio out for the stereo is, but is that accurate? I noticed that the Kitchen Sink board has audio out support; is this what I would need? How difficult is it to strip the USB and PS2 support from the board, since I really don't need that for this design? And, can the audio support be used with existing software products such as mpg123? Does it mimic an OSS/ALSA device? I'm also curious about the onboard storage. I noticed that Pricewatch sells 4.8 gig notebook drives. Naturally, the embedded software would need to be written so that it loads lots of the track into memory to minimize disk access, but how difficult would it be to connect a notebook drive to the KSB? Also, I'm not intensely interested in building the hardware for the system, since I don't have the necessary tools available. I'm more interested in the software aspects of the system -- modifying an FTP server to move MP3's based on ID3 tags, getting an MP3 player to work, writing a frontend which connects the assorted pieces together, etc. Are there any businesses which, if sent the specifications and money, can build the hardware? I noticed the link to http://www.4pcb.com in the README; are these folks able to do this? Thanks. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 20:20:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18952 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:20:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18948 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:20:16 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000CBRQXQ2V@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:20:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 26YGC4RW; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:10:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:17:49 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F760CD.D057697@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nolan Darilek wrote: > I want to design a MP3 player with specifications which are somewhat > similar to the design at http://www.pjbox.com. Specifically, I'd like > to support 4.8 gigs of storage space. > Also, I'm not intensely interested in building the hardware for the > system, since I don't have the necessary tools available. I'm more > interested in the software aspects of the system -- modifying an FTP > server to move MP3's based on ID3 tags, getting an MP3 player to work, > writing a frontend which connects the assorted pieces together, > etc. Are there any businesses which, if sent the specifications and > money, can build the hardware? I noticed the link to > http://www.4pcb.com in the README; are these folks able to do this? Your not alone. This is exactly why I'm interested in the LART as well, although not with FTP. I think this is just one of the many embeded applications for which the LART is very well suited and have just been waiting for fully assembled MBs and KSBs to be offered somewhere... To the designers: Bravo! And keep up the good work. I hope GNU/GPL HW license changes the embeded product market. There are potentially thousands of uses for this powerful little board. Also, I'd love to see a picture of the MB and KSB all connected up. How thick are the two of them when connected? Again, thanx much... Varek Boettcher -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 20:31:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19758 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:31:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19753 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:31:56 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000BPCRH1EV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:31:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.139]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19102; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:55:02 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:59:31 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? To: Nolan Darilek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >There are some issues about that design that I don't like, however. It >uses USB, and they don't sound very interested in supporting Linux (or >at least, they didn't when I checked a few months ago.) Instead, I'd >like to use an ethernet link, since I have a spare port. If I could >simply hook up the MP3 player to the spare port, FTP songs into it and >unplug it when I'm done, that'd be great. why are you against USB? most new systems people buy/assemble contain USB support, whereas for eth, people may have to add support with a card. you know how this'll matter with my home pc :-) you want to ftp songs into the system? that would be ok i guess.. have a play directory (instead of a playlist)... >I'd also like to support output to headphones and a stereo system. My >research seems to indicate that the headphone connection is >non-amplified while the audio out for the stereo is, but is that >accurate? I noticed that the Kitchen Sink board has audio out support; >is this what I would need? How difficult is it to strip the USB and >PS2 support from the board, since I really don't need that for this >design? And, can the audio support be used with existing software >products such as mpg123? Does it mimic an OSS/ALSA device? dunno about this... but more than yes, it could be no. i guess that kitchen sink board is in its infancy. so most drivers would be RAW. i was thinking on the same lines too when i was going through compaq itsy... write a program to play MP3s on it.. i am new to the strongarm cpu.. won't be able to hand code optimized assembly right away :) it's nice that the kitchen sink board has audio support.. but i sometimes wonder if having *everything* is necessary.. i mean, why kitchen-sink? :-) another thing.. if lart needs a GUI, you should look at DinX at http://dinx.sourceforge.net/ could be a cup of tea. getting gtk apps to run would need gtk ported. i read somewhere that gtk needs only it's underlying gdk to be ported. the rest just builds on it.. i dunno :) send me a board and i'll try writing. LOL. BTW, is there a SOFTWARE TODO LIST???? let's get writing for lart! hey, did anyone talk about a video mpeg player? what? a handheld vcd player? hmm.. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 20:37:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20004 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:37:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19999 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:37:24 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000CP5RQA2V@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:37:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13642 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:37:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ksb board dimentions? In-reply-to: <38F64F71.BC84C77D@terus.envmtl.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk could someone please supply size info for the ksb board and possibly a .jpg/.gif of someone holding it for size comparison and scaling. an image of what a lart connected to a ksb looks like would be good also. these images would be good additions for the galary. Thanks, Eric -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:08:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21778 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:08:31 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21772 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:08:29 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA11441; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:08:24 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:08:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004141908.VAA11441@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: ksb board dimentions? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:37:03 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > could someone please supply size info for the ksb board and possibly a > .jpg/.gif of someone holding it for size comparison and scaling. an image > of what a lart connected to a ksb looks like would be good also. these > images would be good additions for the galary. The KSB has the same dimensions as the LART main board: 10 x 7 cm (that is 4 x 3 inches in Stonehenge Units). l'Art gallery has a picture of a hand, so you can compare the size. I don't have a digital photo camera ready right now, so I can't make pictures of a LART+KSB combo. Erik -- "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:12:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21960 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:12:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21954 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:12:48 +0200 Received: from kate.norstanconsulting.com (email.norstanconsulting.com [204.73.79.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000DHXTDA8I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:12:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by KATE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <243WF7SS>; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:08:18 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:08:17 -0500 From: "Linder, Daniel G." Subject: RE: Possible use for LART? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello! Someone wrote: >I'd also like to support output to headphones and a stereo system. My >research seems to indicate that the headphone connection is >non-amplified while the audio out for the stereo is, but is that >accurate? I am pretty sure that standard headphone connections are amplified, and the output that goes to console stereos is non-amplified. Is this how the LART is wired? Dan -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:16:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22185 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:16:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22180 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:16:16 +0200 Received: from unusual.itslinux.org (HSE-Kitchener-ppp84972.sympatico.ca [216.209.98.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000DLATIT8I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:16:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from lethal@localhost) by unusual.itslinux.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02483; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:15:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:15:16 -0500 From: Paul Mundt Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: ; from nolan_d@bigfoot.com on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 12:39:49PM -0500 To: Nolan Darilek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000414151516.A1357@chaoticdreams.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.8i References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 12:39:49PM -0500, Nolan Darilek wrote: > There are some issues about that design that I don't like, however. It > uses USB, and they don't sound very interested in supporting Linux (or > at least, they didn't when I checked a few months ago.) Instead, I'd > like to use an ethernet link, since I have a spare port. If I could > simply hook up the MP3 player to the spare port, FTP songs into it and > unplug it when I'm done, that'd be great. > What would be the need for a seperate ethernet link? You can already do IP over USB and you can pickup a dozen some odd usb ethernet adapters if you are really set on ethernet. -- Paul Mundt Unusual Enterprises http://unusual.itslinux.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:24:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22634 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:24:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22630 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:24:38 +0200 Received: from snail.ecs.umass.edu (snail.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000E05TX08R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:24:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from odo.ecs.umass.edu (odo.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.174]) by snail.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25642; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mcrichto@localhost) by odo.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id PAA16060; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:09:35 -0400 From: Mark Crichton Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks>; from muks@hd2.dot.net.in on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 11:59:31PM +0530 To: Mukund Iyer Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: crichton@gimp.org Message-id: <20000414150935.A15713@odo.ecs.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Quoting Mukund Iyer (muks@hd2.dot.net.in): > > another thing.. if lart needs a GUI, you should look at DinX > at http://dinx.sourceforge.net/ could be a cup of tea. > getting gtk apps to run would need gtk ported. > i read somewhere that gtk needs only it's underlying gdk to > be ported. the rest just builds on it.. i dunno :) Why? That would be PAINFUL! ;) Especially when we got something "easier". ;) However, you should know that X does run on an Itsy. Thanks to a lot of work by Keith Packard, there is a really tiny X server buried in XFree 4.0 (the kdriver). I saw Jim's Itsy running X quite well @ LE '99. (It was very cool to see xclock running... ;) ) The only "big" thing I've run into while playing with Linux on my CE device is that gtk is "chubby". However, with a good theme engine, it might get better. Now size wise, that's still an ongoing debate on the gtk-lists... Does anyone have some prelim design specs for an LCD/touchscreen for the LART? I know what needs to be hammered on in the X code... ;) Mark (and as soon as I can find some good/cheap/Linux (pick 2) PCB layout/schematic capture, I might have my NTSC/PAL decoder for the LART... ;) Any suggestions?) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:31:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23043 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:31:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23039 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:31:28 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000EDKU741Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:31:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13853; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:31:33 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: ksb board dimentions? In-reply-to: <200004141908.VAA11441@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk forgot to ask... How much power do they consume when combined? Also how hard would it be to graft both into say a 10 x 14 cm (4 x 6 stonehenge units) single board. here's the idea - slap a 10 x 14 lcd touch-panel on the front and a Gig of flash ram (via ide) on the back... linux based palm computer that will make other platforms flee as they win ce. Eric On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:37:03 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > could someone please supply size info for the ksb board and possibly a > > .jpg/.gif of someone holding it for size comparison and scaling. an image > > of what a lart connected to a ksb looks like would be good also. these > > images would be good additions for the galary. > > The KSB has the same dimensions as the LART main board: 10 x 7 cm (that is > 4 x 3 inches in Stonehenge Units). l'Art gallery has a picture of a hand, > so you can compare the size. I don't have a digital photo camera ready > right now, so I can't make pictures of a LART+KSB combo. > > > Erik > > -- > "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is > legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." > -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 21:35:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23259 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:35:21 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23255 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:35:20 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA11569; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:35:18 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:35:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004141935.VAA11569@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nolan_d@bigfoot.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:39:49 -0500, Nolan Darilek wrote: > Hello. I'm a Slashdotee; just saw the article and thought that this > may be helpful for a pet project of mine which I've been toying with > but didn't have the experience to work on. Would LART work well for > this? FYI: 17101 unique hosts due to the Slashdot effect uptil now ;-) > I want to design a MP3 player with specifications which are somewhat > similar to the design at http://www.pjbox.com. Specifically, I'd like > to support 4.8 gigs of storage space. Sounds like LART + KSB + IDE. > There are some issues about that design that I don't like, however. It > uses USB, and they don't sound very interested in supporting Linux (or > at least, they didn't when I checked a few months ago.) Instead, I'd > like to use an ethernet link, since I have a spare port. If I could > simply hook up the MP3 player to the spare port, FTP songs into it and > unplug it when I'm done, that'd be great. Both are possible with the LART+KSB combo, although the SA-1100 USB implementation has some silicon bugs: you can use it if it is the only USB device. Also note that it is USB client only, the SA-1100 can't act as a USB root. > I'd also like to support output to headphones and a stereo system. My > research seems to indicate that the headphone connection is > non-amplified while the audio out for the stereo is, but is that > accurate? I noticed that the Kitchen Sink board has audio out support; > is this what I would need? How difficult is it to strip the USB and > PS2 support from the board, since I really don't need that for this > design? And, can the audio support be used with existing software > products such as mpg123? Does it mimic an OSS/ALSA device? Stripping the USB and PS/2 is as simple as not mounting the connectors and leaving out one driver chip. I'm planning to write a OSS/ALSA compatible audio device, but it will be limited: output only, and at a fixed sample rate. The rate can be fixed at 44.1KHz or 48KHz, depending on the crystal for the DAC. > I'm also curious about the onboard storage. I noticed that Pricewatch > sells 4.8 gig notebook drives. Naturally, the embedded software would > need to be written so that it loads lots of the track into memory to > minimize disk access, but how difficult would it be to connect a > notebook drive to the KSB? Not difficult. We currently have a Toshiba notebook disk for which we're going to write a driver. It can't be too difficult, according to Nicolas Pitre. > Also, I'm not intensely interested in building the hardware for the > system, since I don't have the necessary tools available. I'm more > interested in the software aspects of the system -- modifying an FTP > server to move MP3's based on ID3 tags, getting an MP3 player to work, > writing a frontend which connects the assorted pieces together, One of the most important things to be modified is the MP3 player itself. All MP3 players I know read the MP3 file while they're playing. Not a big problem for a desktop machine, but for a handheld MP3 player, it would mean that the disk has to spin while playing an MP3. The MP3 player needs to be modified in such a way that it caches one or more MP3 files and allows the OS to spin down the disk. > etc. Are there any businesses which, if sent the specifications and > money, can build the hardware? I noticed the link to > http://www.4pcb.com in the README; are these folks able to do this? No, they only make PCBs AFAIK. There are a couple of people on this list who're planning to build some LARTs, I'm sure they will inform the list when they're ready. Stay tuned. Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:05:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24869 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:05:53 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24865 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:05:53 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA11672; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:05:43 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:05:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142005.WAA11672@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: crichton@gimp.org Cc: muks@hd2.dot.net.in, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: <20000414150935.A15713@odo.ecs.umass.edu> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:09:35 -0400, Mark Crichton wrote: > > Quoting Mukund Iyer (muks@hd2.dot.net.in): >> >> another thing.. if lart needs a GUI, you should look at DinX >> at http://dinx.sourceforge.net/ could be a cup of tea. >> getting gtk apps to run would need gtk ported. >> i read somewhere that gtk needs only it's underlying gdk to >> be ported. the rest just builds on it.. i dunno :) > > Why? That would be PAINFUL! ;) Especially when we got something "easier". ;) Actually, there were some messages about porting GTK+ to MicroWindows/NanoX on the gtk-devel mailing list a week ago. Owen Taylor (GTK+) had a lot of comments on NanoX, but Greg Haerr (NanoX) took it quite well and asked Owen to try an alpha port of GTK+ to NanoX (dunno if he meant it as a Linus Torvalds-like "show me the code"). The thread more or less died out, but the bottom line was that it was a good idea. > However, you should know that X does run on an Itsy. Thanks to a lot of > work by Keith Packard, there is a really tiny X server buried in XFree 4.0 > (the kdriver). I saw Jim's Itsy running X quite well @ LE '99. (It was very > cool to see xclock running... ;) ) I agree, it's cool to run X on a handheld, but sometimes you really don't need the complete client-server support, especially because an X server has quite a large memory footprint. In that case, things like NanoX with GTK+ can be quite nice. > The only "big" thing I've run into while playing with Linux on my CE device > is that gtk is "chubby". However, with a good theme engine, it might get > better. Now size wise, that's still an ongoing debate on the gtk-lists... I think the big question is: how well does GTK+ scale to a small grey level LCD? M$ Windows looks awful on such a screen, I hope we can change GTK+ in such a way that it looks good. > Does anyone have some prelim design specs for an LCD/touchscreen for the LART? > I know what needs to be hammered on in the X code... ;) Johan wants to buy an LCD/touchscreen, but he hasn't yet decided which one. The LART itself is ready for it: the SA-1100 has LCD output, and the UCB 1200 on the KSB has a touchscreen interface (for which I have to write a driver). Erik -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about Microsoft products: It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of them by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all. In other words---and this is the rock-solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation's Galaxywide success is founded---their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws. -- Anonymous; based on Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:14:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25297 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:14:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25290 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:14:12 +0200 Received: from ethereal (resnet-21-203.dorm.utexas.edu [129.116.21.203]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000F40W7MKQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:14:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nolan by ethereal with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12gCFG-0005FS-00; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:59:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:59:14 -0500 From: Nolan Darilek Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> To: muks@hd2.dot.net.in Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: References: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Mukund" == Mukund Iyer writes: Mukund> why are you against USB? most new systems people Mukund> buy/assemble contain USB support, whereas for eth, people Mukund> may have to add support with a card. you know how this'll Mukund> matter with my home pc :-) I'm not against USB at all. The box which I built last year has it and, though I haven't had the opportunity to use it, it sounds great. I am against writing specialized software to spit data over a link using a product-specific protocol, when something like FTP would work nicely. (Of course, I doubt FTP support could be used in an actual retail product without modifying the server to not support downloading. *shrug*) Since this is for my own use though, I thought that ethernet would be better. :) Mukund> you want to ftp songs into the system? that would be ok i Mukund> guess.. have a play directory (instead of a playlist)... Exactly. And a modified server which would, upon completion of an upload, move the file into an Artist/Album/Title.mp3 structure, or place it in an Unsorted directory, or let you make play "directories" and "lists" which behave a bit differently. Mukund> i was thinking on the same lines too when i was going Mukund> through compaq itsy... write a program to play MP3s on Mukund> it.. i am new to the strongarm cpu.. won't be able to Mukund> hand code optimized assembly right away :) Hmm, and this is another question of mine (excuse my newbiishness :). Since the board runs Linux, why would you need to code in assembly? Is it only used to increase speed in critical areas? Or, could something like mpg123 simply be cross compiled? The idea which I wanted to use for the structure involved a small root partition on the large notebook drive. This would be used to store /usr, /lib, /etc and other useful directories. The remainder of the disk space would be used to store MP3's. In this manner, a majority of the software could be easily upgraded to add new features and such. My concern with this is boot time: I wouldn't be running much beyond a FTP server and a frontend which ran an MP3 player and organized all functions into a menu structure. Is this a bad idea, though? Since I'm considering gigs of storage, I can afford to create a small, 32 meg installation of Linux with very limited functionality, but should I instead try to cram everything onto a few megs of flash? Mukund> another thing.. if lart needs a GUI, you should look at Mukund> DinX at http://dinx.sourceforge.net/ could be a cup of Mukund> tea. getting gtk apps to run would need gtk ported. i Mukund> read somewhere that gtk needs only it's underlying gdk to Mukund> be ported. the rest just builds on it.. i dunno :) send me Mukund> a board and i'll try writing. LOL. Heh, I was just thinking of text-based with ncurses. :) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:22:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25654 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25650 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:02 +0200 From: david.belius@chello.se Received: from smtp2.chello.se (smtp2.chello.se [193.150.195.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000FA0WKPAD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from chello.se ([193.150.216.55]) by smtp2.chello.se (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 70acae3d5ac8b27d1dfb8564bfbfa8a7) with ESMTP id <20000414200835.SWSZ27496.smtp2@chello.se> for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:08:35 +0200 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:08:23 +0200 Subject: price... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F77AB6.B182CE65@chello.se> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What would it cost to build a lart? /David -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:22:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25677 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25670 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:13 +0200 Received: from mail2.netcologne.de (mail2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.103]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000EFGWL0ZI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from colin.anarcho.net (dial-194-8-209-41.netcologne.de [194.8.209.41]) by mail2.netcologne.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05021; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:09:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from baer@localhost) by colin.anarcho.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01361; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:10:24 +0200 X-URL: Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:10:24 +0200 From: Thomas Renard X-Face: 43Gd&$n()k_953x*S*S$KvhoZ5HRR+\?HpR1~dG@&6B[/EKmoE.5mYc3v#`Ahf[{ekw}SL9 g|pT#VQ8a.~3xURG\j?G@roW>lq*V323P[~3fZu6.~DxATbN&IGSABZ*aQ*:1XPF-i[m"h.z&S[k3J a[.Rfdjk9(?uQ$CQ=-& Subject: Re: lart midi? In-reply-to: "J.D. Bakker"'s message of "Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:09:36 +0200" To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Raoul Endres , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: Organization: The Anarcho Net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.070099 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.99) XEmacs/21.1 (Canyonlands) Lines: 33 References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk * J D Bakker writes: > [cc-ed to the LART list] >> I'm extremely interesed in the lart for use with midi to sync up >> midi instruments with audio and to crontrol lighting equipment >> (strobes etc) with a live audio input. >> Any hope of someone looking into this - all it would take is a >> couple of midi ports (one in, one out?). I haven't got a clue about >> hardware design, so I'm hopeing someone may be interested :) > The SA-1100 has three serial ports that can be configured for RS232 > operation. As MIDI is nothing more than RS232 with odd voltage > levels at an odd clock; I expect this to be easily doable. Don't > have the time for it myself tho. Any takers ? Just a little question of an old MIDI-programmer: Which Baudrates can this RS232 manage? MIDI needs 31,25 kBit/s - this cannot be realized by a standard RS232 divider! For the hardware: http://www.midi.org/about-midi/abtmidi.htm > JD 'slashdotted' B. > -- Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency. Thomas -- Thomas Renard Ich glaub, Atomstrom Thomas.Renard@smail.uni-koeln.de ist gelb -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:22:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25707 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25703 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:38 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000FDTWLNB5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:22:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([203.197.21.19]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA04676; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:45:56 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:50:26 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? To: Nolan Darilek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001a01bfa64e$e0583400$1315c5cb@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nolan Darilek: >Hmm, and this is another question of mine (excuse my newbiishness >:). Since the board runs Linux, why would you need to code in >assembly? Is it only used to increase speed in critical areas? Or, >could something like mpg123 simply be cross compiled? > exactly for increasing speed in critical areas. mpg123 *can* be simply cross compiled, but a lot of performance can be gained by rewriting those critical sections in optimized assembly. btw, coding or not coding in assembly has nothing to do with linux. >The idea which I wanted to use for the structure involved a small root >partition on the large notebook drive. This would be used to store >/usr, /lib, /etc and other useful directories. The remainder of the >disk space would be used to store MP3's. In this manner, a majority of >the software could be easily upgraded to add new features and such. My >concern with this is boot time: I wouldn't be running much beyond a >FTP server and a frontend which ran an MP3 player and organized all >functions into a menu structure. Is this a bad idea, though? Since I'm >considering gigs of storage, I can afford to create a small, 32 meg >installation of Linux with very limited functionality, but should I >instead try to cram everything onto a few megs of flash? > it depends on what you're trying to build. if you are going to be putting a harddisk, you could put everything on the hard disk and leave a boot loader in ROM. but if you want to store your songs in RAM or nonvolatile RAM with no hdd (like most MP3 players do nowadays), you would have to put your software in the flash. i guess lart's flash has enough for a decent MP3 player.. you might be able to add in a couple of custom skins too :) > >Heh, I was just thinking of text-based with ncurses. :) > HEY! then what happens to my smart 3d opengl visualization plugin?? of course, we need a GUI. and opengl too :) am i kidding? they did port it to palm! - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:32:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26256 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:32:04 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26252 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:32:03 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA11795; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:31:57 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:31:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142031.WAA11795@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nolan_d@bigfoot.com Cc: muks@hd2.dot.net.in, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:59:14 -0500, Nolan Darilek wrote: >>>>>> "Mukund" == Mukund Iyer writes: > Mukund> i was thinking on the same lines too when i was going > Mukund> through compaq itsy... write a program to play MP3s on > Mukund> it.. i am new to the strongarm cpu.. won't be able to > Mukund> hand code optimized assembly right away :) > > Hmm, and this is another question of mine (excuse my newbiishness > :). Since the board runs Linux, why would you need to code in > assembly? Is it only used to increase speed in critical areas? Or, > could something like mpg123 simply be cross compiled? Correct. Gcc-2.95.2 generates very good code for the SA-1100 processor. Have a look at the "MPEG audio decoding" thread in the mailing list archive. > The idea which I wanted to use for the structure involved a small root > partition on the large notebook drive. This would be used to store > /usr, /lib, /etc and other useful directories. The remainder of the > disk space would be used to store MP3's. In this manner, a majority of > the software could be easily upgraded to add new features and such. My > concern with this is boot time: I wouldn't be running much beyond a > FTP server and a frontend which ran an MP3 player and organized all > functions into a menu structure. Is this a bad idea, though? Since I'm > considering gigs of storage, I can afford to create a small, 32 meg > installation of Linux with very limited functionality, but should I > instead try to cram everything onto a few megs of flash? You'd better put the root partition in a RAM disk. As I already said in this thread: spinning a disk eats batteries. Erik -- "[Microsoft] ... guarantees 99.8% NT uptime for certain hard-/software. That's exactly the 3 minutes daily that my NT server needs to reboot." -- ZDnet editorial -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:38:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26539 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:07 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26535 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:06 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA11811; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142038.WAA11811@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: ksb board dimentions? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:31:32 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > forgot to ask... How much power do they consume when combined? Also how I haven't measured it yet. > hard would it be to graft both into say a 10 x 14 cm (4 x 6 stonehenge > units) single board. here's the idea - slap a 10 x 14 lcd touch-panel on > the front and a Gig of flash ram (via ide) on the back... linux based > palm computer that will make other platforms flee as they win ce. It's quite hard, because you'd need a board redesign. No, you can't use flatcable between the LART and the KSB, simply because 1mm flatcable doesn't exist. OTOH, you can mount a LART+KSB next to a 2.5" IDE disk and put them behind a LCD panel. Same size, less engineering effort. Erik -- Apr 14 22:37:58 linux kernel: lp0 printer error Apr 14 22:37:58 linux kernel: lp0 on fire -- Linux kernel log -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:42:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26729 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:42:24 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26725 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:42:23 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA11827; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:42:11 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:42:11 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142042.WAA11827@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: david.belius@chello.se Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: price... In-Reply-To: <38F77AB6.B182CE65@chello.se> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:08:23 +0200, david.belius@chello.se wrote: > What would it cost to build a lart? The LART distribution README file (LARTdist-README) at the main board page (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/ ) has a not-yet-complete Bill of Materials. Our prototypes were about 500 to 600 euro each, but a run of 100 will approximately be 200 to 300 euro. Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:44:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26840 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:44:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26836 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:44:25 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000FM9XLYKQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:44:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([203.197.21.19]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA02184 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:07:46 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:12:16 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: arm instruction set?? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002a01bfa651$ecb96cc0$1315c5cb@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk oh yes.. i'm new to the arm family. i downloaded intel's manuals for SA-1100 and SA-1110, but there is no instruction set in them. the text says: "The SA-1100 implements the ARM (TM) V4 architecture as defined in the ARM Architecture Reference, 28-July-1995, with previously noted options and additions." where can i download an electronic version? - muks __ __ _ _ __ __ _/ .\__/ .\__/ Mukund Iyer 91.040.7059751 .\__/ .\__/ .\_ .\__/ .\__/ .\_ muks@hd2.dot.net.in _/ .\__/ .\__/ _/ \__/ \__/ http://conic.cx muks/irc.linux \__/ \__/ \_ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:49:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27138 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:49:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27131 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:49:13 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000FOIXTYAD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:49:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([203.197.21.19]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA13022; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:11:11 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:15:42 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: lart midi? To: Thomas Renard Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002f01bfa652$67193ea0$1315c5cb@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Just a little question of an old MIDI-programmer: Which Baudrates can >this RS232 manage? > >MIDI needs 31,25 kBit/s - this cannot be realized by a standard RS232 >divider! > The SA-1100 has 2 serial ports. One for USB and the other for SDLC and UART. The UART port can manage 56.24 bps to 230.4 Kbps according to the manual. - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 22:53:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27343 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:53:37 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27339 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:53:36 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA11885; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:52:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:52:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142052.WAA11885@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: Thomas.Renard@smail.uni-koeln.de Cc: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl, endres@b5.nu, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: lart midi? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:10:24 +0200, Thomas Renard wrote: > Just a little question of an old MIDI-programmer: Which Baudrates can > this RS232 manage? All standard baudrates upto 230k4, but ... > MIDI needs 31,25 kBit/s - this cannot be realized by a standard RS232 > divider! .. you can connect an external clock to the serial port, and in that case 31,25 kBit/s is very easy to do. Erik PS: My Roland digital piano has a serial port that runs at 38k4 and speaks MIDI, so I suppose there are more MIDI devices that can do this trick. -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:11:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28131 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:11:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28127 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:11:28 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000GA1YV2TH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:11:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id QAA32167; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:07:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:07:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: arm instruction set?? In-reply-to: <002a01bfa651$ecb96cc0$1315c5cb@muks> To: Mukund Iyer Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004142107.QAA32167@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mukund Iyer asked... > oh yes.. i'm new to the arm family. > i downloaded intel's manuals for SA-1100 and SA-1110, > but there is no instruction set in them. > > where can i download an electronic version? I'm not aware of an Intel specific document, but you can get the instruction set from the ARM pages. The instructions are documented in... http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/ARM7vC.pdf The quick reference card is at... http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/QRC-0001D.pdf The ARM MMUs are covered in... http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/DDI0150A_920T_TRM.pdf -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:14:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28249 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:14:07 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28237; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:13:59 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000414150935.A15713@odo.ecs.umass.edu> References: <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks>; from muks@hd2.dot.net.in on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 11:59:31PM +0530 <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:13:38 +0200 To: crichton@gimp.org From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? Cc: Mukund Iyer , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Does anyone have some prelim design specs for an LCD/touchscreen for the LART? >I know what needs to be hammered on in the X code... ;) The SA-1100 connects to just about any LCD: passive/active, mono/color, up to 1024x1024. I personally connected the LART to a mono passive display (in l'art gallery) and a color active display. As for the touch screen, the UCB1200 has an universal 4-wire analog interface. The data sheets are well worth the read. >(and as soon as I can find some good/cheap/Linux (pick 2) PCB layout/schematic As I use sucky and Windows right now, I'd settle for good and Linux. Any suggestions ? >capture, I might have my NTSC/PAL decoder for the LART... ;) Ah, that's on my todo list as well. JDB [who thinks those AD video chips are quite nice] -- Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:23:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28739 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:23:10 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28731; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:23:05 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:19:49 +0200 To: "Linder, Daniel G." From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: RE: Possible use for LART? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >I am pretty sure that standard headphone connections are amplified, and the >output that goes to console stereos is non-amplified. Is this how the LART >is wired? Yes. The line output comes straight from the output filter; the headphone connector comes, well, from the headphone amp. Audio purists note that the line output thus has (marginally) less noise and distortion. JDB. -- If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. -- Arthur Kasspe -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:28:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28965 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:28:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28955 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:28:34 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT000HDRZNB9U@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:28:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14398; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:29:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: price... In-reply-to: <200004142042.WAA11827@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: david.belius@chello.se, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk for those that want to know how much this would be in their own currency I've found www.euro.fee.be/currency_converter.htm. as of today multiplyb by .9549 to get U$D. On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:08:23 +0200, david.belius@chello.se wrote: > > What would it cost to build a lart? > > The LART distribution README file (LARTdist-README) at the main board page > (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/ ) has a not-yet-complete Bill > of Materials. Our prototypes were about 500 to 600 euro each, but a run of > 100 will approximately be 200 to 300 euro. > > > Erik > > -- > A towel has immense psychological value. > -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:33:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29221 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:33:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29216 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:33:02 +0200 Received: from phnxpop4.phnx.uswest.net (phnxpop4.phnx.uswest.net [206.80.192.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT000GLJZV0HH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:33:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 20031 invoked by alias); Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:30:36 +0000 Received: (qmail 20016 invoked by uid 0); Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:30:36 +0000 Received: from bdslppp188.phnx.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.160.217.188) by phnxpop4.phnx.uswest.net with SMTP; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:30:36 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:29:52 -0700 From: Kevin Brown Subject: New to list To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F78DD0.6724C11A@uswest.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Delivered-to: fixup-lart@lart.tudelft.nl@fixme X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I found this project through Slashdot yesterday and since my dad is trying to get a hold of a StrongARM from Intel I thought I'd check it out. One of the things I'm interested in is doing a kinda portable digital music player with an LCD. I noticed in the gallery that with an add-on the Lart could be connected to one. So, anyone have any pointers on where I could look to do this with the Lart? -- "Intel giveth and Microsoft Taketh Away" - Gordon Moore -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:40:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29589 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:40:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29576 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:40:50 +0200 Received: from email.ancore.com (host13.ancore.com [204.118.176.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100GOE080JB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:40:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sweety (adsl-63-193-113-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.113.118]) by email.ancore.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id G10NF15A; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:37:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:39:43 -0700 From: Mike Ingle work Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001001bfa659$f326ce10$7671c13f@local.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: "2000 at 11:59:31PM +0530" <002801bfa63f$6281fde0$8b1e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > As I use sucky and Windows right now, I'd settle for good and Linux. Any > suggestions ? > I use PROTEL on Windows NT for sch capture and pcb layout. If I couldn't run NT I would look at EAGLE in Germany. Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:44:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29797 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:44:58 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29791 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:44:56 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA12051; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:44:50 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:44:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142144.XAA12051@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: jim@federated.com Cc: muks@hd2.dot.net.in, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: arm instruction set?? In-Reply-To: <200004142107.QAA32167@core.federated.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:07:04 -0500 (CDT), Jim Studt wrote: > Mukund Iyer asked... >> oh yes.. i'm new to the arm family. >> i downloaded intel's manuals for SA-1100 and SA-1110, >> but there is no instruction set in them. >> >> where can i download an electronic version? > > I'm not aware of an Intel specific document, but you can get the > instruction set from the ARM pages. > > The instructions are documented in... > http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/ARM7vC.pdf > The quick reference card is at... > http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/QRC-0001D.pdf > > The ARM MMUs are covered in... > http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/DDI0150A_920T_TRM.pdf Thanks Jim. JDB once gave me those documents, but I didn't know they could be downloaded from the ARM site. I just updated the "LART Documentation" page: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/doc.php3 . Erik [:wq] -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:49:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30061 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:49:52 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30057 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:49:51 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA12062; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:49:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:49:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142149.XAA12062@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: david.belius@chello.se, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: price... In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:29:21 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > for those that want to know how much this would be in their own currency > I've found www.euro.fee.be/currency_converter.htm. as of today multiplyb > by .9549 to get U$D. Oops, sorry. I just cut-and-pasted this reply to a previous question from a earopean user, not realizing that the USD is a bit more internationally known. For simple use 1 USD == 1 euro. Erik -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:50:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30106 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:50:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30102 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:50:58 +0200 Received: from snail.ecs.umass.edu (snail.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100GQU0OWHH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:50:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from odo.ecs.umass.edu (odo.ecs.umass.edu [128.119.91.174]) by snail.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02274; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mcrichto@localhost) by odo.ecs.umass.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id RAA21210; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:05:20 -0400 From: Mark Crichton Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <200004142005.WAA11672@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl>; from J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 10:05:43PM +0200 To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000414170520.A20918@odo.ecs.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <20000414150935.A15713@odo.ecs.umass.edu> <200004142005.WAA11672@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk * Erik Mouw (J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl) [000414 16:05]: > Actually, there were some messages about porting GTK+ to > MicroWindows/NanoX on the gtk-devel mailing list a week ago. Owen Taylor Expect the port in a week. The code is "there" but Pablo (IIRC) hasn't released it yet. And Greg took Owen's critisims of NanoX very well (there was some really bad namespace pollution issues, for starters). Some of that code is in the most recent beta release. > I agree, it's cool to run X on a handheld, but sometimes you really don't > need the complete client-server support, especially because an X server > has quite a large memory footprint. In that case, things like NanoX with > GTK+ can be quite nice. NanoX is also client/server. ;) However, the kdriver IIRC is "X with lipo- suction" + many extensions removed (Anyone use XIE? Didn't think so. ;) ) I'll have a look into the code/what gets built, but I think it's lighterweight than your normal X bin that sits around. > > I think the big question is: how well does GTK+ scale to a small grey > level LCD? M$ Windows looks awful on such a screen, I hope we can change > GTK+ in such a way that it looks good. Yea. Writing a specific theme engine might help (look at ThinIce for an example of what I'm mumbling about). However, 1.4 looks like it's gonna be One Large Beast :| And gtk+ is already in that Ugly Motif-like Grey. ;) > Johan wants to buy an LCD/touchscreen, but he hasn't yet decided which > one. The LART itself is ready for it: the SA-1100 has LCD output, and the > UCB 1200 on the KSB has a touchscreen interface (for which I have to write > a driver). Hmmm, guess I'll dig out my SA-1100 notes. I'll be more than happy to write the fbdev for the sucka. ;) (of course, I dont have a board...but if you want to ship me one. :) :) :) ) I'll take a look at the gtk thing. Since the uWindows people would also care about such things... Mark -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 14 23:58:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30495 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:58:54 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30490 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:58:53 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA12106; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:58:50 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:58:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142158.XAA12106@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mcrichto@ecs.umass.edu Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: <20000414170520.A20918@odo.ecs.umass.edu> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:05:20 -0400, Mark Crichton wrote: > * Erik Mouw (J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl) [000414 16:05]: >> Actually, there were some messages about porting GTK+ to >> MicroWindows/NanoX on the gtk-devel mailing list a week ago. Owen Taylor > > Expect the port in a week. The code is "there" but Pablo (IIRC) hasn't > released it yet. Wow! > Hmmm, guess I'll dig out my SA-1100 notes. I'll be more than happy to write > the fbdev for the sucka. ;) (of course, I dont have a board...but if you want > to ship me one. :) :) :) ) I don't want to spoil your party, but the fbdev already works. Have a look at l'Art gallery. The fbdev stuff in the kernel just needs a large cleanup. Erik -- unix soit qui mal y pense -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 00:15:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31248 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:15:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31243 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:15:54 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100J0H1T60W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:15:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id RAA03366; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:12:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:12:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <20000414170520.A20918@odo.ecs.umass.edu> To: Mark Crichton Cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004142212.RAA03366@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mark wrote... > Hmmm, guess I'll dig out my SA-1100 notes. I'll be more than happy to write > the fbdev for the sucka. ;) (of course, I dont have a board...but if you want > to ship me one. :) :) :) ) 2.3.99-pre5 contains linux/drivers/video/sa1100fb.c Looks like one Eric A. Thomas is on it. It needs work with palettes and resoultions (if its comments are to be believed). -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 00:20:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31452 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:20:39 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31448 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:20:38 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:20:09 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ethernet card schematics released Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, For those who hadn't noticed yet, I've put up the schematics for the single Ethernet interface. I'll try to post the quad Ethernet schematics after the weekend. JDB. -- I may be obsessive-compulsive, but it's NOT a disorder ! -- Paul S. Sawyer in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 00:34:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA32014 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:34:10 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA32010 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:34:09 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id AAA12220; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:34:05 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:34:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004142234.AAA12220@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: jim@federated.com Cc: mcrichto@ecs.umass.edu, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: <200004142212.RAA03366@core.federated.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:12:10 -0500 (CDT), Jim Studt wrote: > Mark wrote... >> Hmmm, guess I'll dig out my SA-1100 notes. I'll be more than happy to write >> the fbdev for the sucka. ;) (of course, I dont have a board...but if you want >> to ship me one. :) :) :) ) > > 2.3.99-pre5 contains linux/drivers/video/sa1100fb.c Yes, that's the one from Nicolas Pitre's sa1100 tree, which is merged into Russel King's arm tree, which is merged into Linus' tree. > Looks like one Eric A. Thomas is on it. It needs work with palettes and > resoultions (if its comments are to be believed). I don't know his email address, the code needs some work, but I don't know if he's currently working on it. JDB already made it a bit more useable, because there were some errors in the palette code. Working from a video coding groups helps in such cases ... ;-) Erik -- "It said Windows 95 or better, so in theory Linux should run it." -- GeorgeH on /. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 00:49:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA32597 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:49:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA32593 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:49:02 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (oe7.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.148.111]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT100JQ13DO0W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:49:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 63089 invoked by uid 65534); Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:48:39 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:45:42 -0400 From: Crazy Diamond Subject: blop / OpenBoot? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000414224839.63088.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFA641.A32BB960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Originating-IP: [24.6.103.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFA641.A32BB960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is Blob OpenBoot(tm)-compliant? Why not just use Grub or another such = boot-loader? ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFA641.A32BB960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is Blob OpenBoot(tm)-compliant?  Why not just = use Grub or=20 another such boot-loader?
------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFA641.A32BB960-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 01:20:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA01070 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:20:06 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01066 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:20:04 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:19:28 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> Looks like one Eric A. Thomas is on it. It needs work with palettes and >> resoultions (if its comments are to be believed). > >I don't know his email address, the code needs some work, but I don't know >if he's currently working on it. I haven't seen him active on either linux-arm or sa1100-linux for well over a year. ISTR he designed it to suit his needs, and left it when it worked for him. If someone is looking for a small software project then I would suggest modularizing the SA-1100 fbdev. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 01:54:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02283 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:54:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02274 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:54:30 +0200 Received: from socket.house ([208.243.144.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100KFG6ESCN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:54:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by newsnipple.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:03:41 -0700 From: Adam Haberlach Subject: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I just joined this list after it was posted to Slashdot. I'm a Computer Engineering major who ended up working in software and I would like to do some real hardware hacking. Is there anyone in the bay area putting together a group purchase of boards? I have not specced anything out yet, but I assume that higher quantities bring the price down a bit. I'd like to build one just for kicks, possibly to make a router or two. Also--does anyone know where I can get information on the Gerber file format? I was thinking of writing a Viewer (or CAD program, if I get really motivated and have 30 hour days all of the sudden) for BeOS. -- Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 02:23:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03038 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:23:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03034 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:23:10 +0200 Received: from idealab.com (mx2.idealab.com [206.132.100.54]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT100L6G7QJ88@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:23:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 32213 invoked by alias); Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:19:07 +0000 Received: (qmail 32144 invoked from network); Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:19:05 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Clifford) (10.3.40.142) by corleone.idealab.com with SMTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:19:05 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:18:11 -0700 From: "Joel R. Kehle" Subject: RE: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? In-reply-to: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> To: Adam Haberlach , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm looking into sourcing parts right now. I would need interest for about 50 units to make this workable. Cheers, Joel Kehle -----Original Message----- From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of Adam Haberlach Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 5:04 PM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? I just joined this list after it was posted to Slashdot. I'm a Computer Engineering major who ended up working in software and I would like to do some real hardware hacking. Is there anyone in the bay area putting together a group purchase of boards? I have not specced anything out yet, but I assume that higher quantities bring the price down a bit. I'd like to build one just for kicks, possibly to make a router or two. Also--does anyone know where I can get information on the Gerber file format? I was thinking of writing a Viewer (or CAD program, if I get really motivated and have 30 hour days all of the sudden) for BeOS. -- Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 02:39:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03462 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:39:09 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03455; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:39:06 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:37:10 +0200 To: Adam Haberlach From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Gerber (was Re: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping?) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Also--does anyone know where I can get information on the >Gerber file format? I was thinking of writing a Viewer (or >CAD program, if I get really motivated and have 30 hour days all >of the sudden) for BeOS. http://www.apcircuits.com/html/technical.html http://www.artwork.com:80/gerber/274x/rs274x.htm Oh and do release the engine under GPL so others can do a Linux port X-) JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 02:41:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03539 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:41:49 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03534; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:41:46 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004142332.e3ENWHn02377@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:40:57 +0200 To: Michael Urashka From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART parts Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >Is there a page listing where to get the components for putting together >a LART-like machine? Nothing other than the README for the hardware distro (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/LARTdist-README). JDB [I'd give you my own contacts, but those only operate within The Netherlands] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 03:24:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04490 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:24:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04485 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:24:55 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT100LO1ALF2I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:24:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:20:38 +1000 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:20:38 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <001001bfa659$f326ce10$7671c13f@local.net> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Mike Ingle work Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Mike Ingle work wrote: > > As I use sucky and Windows right now, I'd settle for good and Linux. Any > > suggestions ? > > > > I use PROTEL on Windows NT for sch capture and pcb layout. If I couldn't > run NT I would look at EAGLE in Germany. Eagle is supposed to be good and fairly cheap for educational registration. They have a crippleware demo. Really those software developers on the list should consider helping out with the gEDA project in particular gPCB which needs a lot of work and could do with extra developers. See the links on the PLEB web page (http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pleb) which is linked from the LART pages. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 03:38:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04771 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:38:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04767 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:38:52 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100M7WB8R73@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:38:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA31093 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:36:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:36:15 -0400 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: "Your message of Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:35:18 +0200." <200004141935.VAA11569@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004150136.VAA31093@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > One of the most important things to be modified is the MP3 player itself. > All MP3 players I know read the MP3 file while they're playing. Not a big > problem for a desktop machine, but for a handheld MP3 player, it would > mean that the disk has to spin while playing an MP3. The MP3 player needs > to be modified in such a way that it caches one or more MP3 files and > allows the OS to spin down the disk. Indeed you would probably not want to use one of the stock player front-ends as-is; it makes sense to custom-build something out of one of the decoding libraries. Speaking for my own decoder/player (MAD), the decoding library is designed in such a way that the input file can simply be mmap()'d into memory... `madplay' will do this whenever possible but doesn't go any further. With a little thought you can come up with an effective mechanism to ensure the input streams are cached in memory. I believe the Xaudio SDK is similarly flexible. Btw, I had been meaning to report back timings for the static binary version of `splay' Erik provided me that is optimized for and runs so well on the SA-110 Netwinder. They look slightly--but not dramatically--better than the version I used before. I'm still fascinated by splay's performance on the Netwinder, and surprised it doesn't carry over at all to the SA-1100. I'll throw down all the numbers again for completeness. These are all the MPEG audio decoders I'm aware that can run in real-time without an FPU: CPU: StrongARM 1100 220MHz [same as LART] OS: Linux 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg22 RAM: 8MB 60ns FPM Layer Layer Layer decoder version I II III license ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ splay-for-sa110 0.81 39% 36% 41% GPL/LGPL splay-fixpoint [1] 0.81 41% 36% 43% GPL/LGPL mpg123-arm32 [2] 0.59r [3] 27%[4] 32% non-commercial Xaudio [5] 1.3.1 21% 25% 24% commercial MAD [6] 0.10.0b 23% 22% 37%[7] GPL [1] ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ [2] ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/packages/pkgsrc/audio/mpg123/README.html [3] failed to decode bitstream [4] outputs silence [5] http://www.xaudio.com/ [6] http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ [7] not optimized yet These numbers represent decoding CPU time as a percentage of real audio playing time. I calculated them as follows: time splay -d - $file > /dev/null time mpg123 -s $file > /dev/null time xaudio -output=raw:- $file > /dev/null time madplay -o raw:- $file > /dev/null I then divided the total CPU seconds by total playing time seconds. The same test bitstream was used across decoders for each layer, and all bitstreams were longer than four minutes playing time, 44.1kHz stereo. Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 03:44:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04847 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:44:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04843 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:44:34 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100MB1BI773@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:44:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id SAA1451857; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:39:22 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? To: Adam Haberlach Cc: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38F7C849.24A12447@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6B6C34EE3E2F20F315A16A17" X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6B6C34EE3E2F20F315A16A17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam, I'm expecting a group LART Mainboards back from the board fabricator on 24th of this month (April). Theses are the bare PC boards not the assembled units. Where in the Bay Area are you located? Greg Fountain, Menlo Park, California Adam Haberlach wrote: > I just joined this list after it was posted to Slashdot. > I'm a Computer Engineering major who ended up working in software > and I would like to do some real hardware hacking. > > Is there anyone in the bay area putting together a group > purchase of boards? I have not specced anything out yet, but I > assume that higher quantities bring the price down a bit. I'd > like to build one just for kicks, possibly to make a router or > two. > > Also--does anyone know where I can get information on the > Gerber file format? I was thinking of writing a Viewer (or > CAD program, if I get really motivated and have 30 hour days all > of the sudden) for BeOS. --------------6B6C34EE3E2F20F315A16A17 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------6B6C34EE3E2F20F315A16A17-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 04:48:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06061 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 04:48:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA06057 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 04:48:28 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT100M9XEEIWU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 04:48:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([203.197.21.101]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25673; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:11:44 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:16:14 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? To: Erik Mouw , nolan_d@bigfoot.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <009f01bfa684$c4fbe680$6515c5cb@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >One of the most important things to be modified is the MP3 player itself. >All MP3 players I know read the MP3 file while they're playing. Not a big >problem for a desktop machine, but for a handheld MP3 player, it would >mean that the disk has to spin while playing an MP3. The MP3 player needs >to be modified in such a way that it caches one or more MP3 files and >allows the OS to spin down the disk. > i guess reading while playing should be alright if there's no hdd. i guess a ramdisk would be used. one question, since i don't have a lart here: is glibc ported to the lart? it sure sounds a stupid question, but i'm curious. has the glibc been ported along with GCC? do i have functions such as socket(), printf(), sin(), cos(), etc. available for use? cause i'll need fread() for one to read those MP3s.. and would i be able to use it as a shared library? hmm.. stupid question :) - muks btw: is an (strong)ARM simulator available for x86 somewhere? would make my life a lot easier right now :) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 05:30:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07075 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:30:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07071 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:30:27 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT1000EBGEP8X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:30:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id WAA23417; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:27:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:27:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-reply-to: <009f01bfa684$c4fbe680$6515c5cb@muks> To: Mukund Iyer Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004150327.WAA23417@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk muks asks... > btw: is an (strong)ARM simulator available for x86 somewhere? > would make my life a lot easier right now :) There is an arm simulator buried inside gdb if you build it correctly. I'm not sure its useful for 32bit arms. It may be only 26bit and only user mode or somesuch, but then I haven't looked at it in three years of more. If it would be helpful for developers, I can move a Debian potato strongarm machine outside my firewalls and make it available for building, application testing, and such. It won't be any good for testing the low level drivers but it might make it easier to create the software and images. (32M ram, 4G disk, 275MHz SA-110 rev3) And yes, glibc is ported to ARM linux. 95% of Debian is ported. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 07:39:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA11204 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:39:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA11200 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:39:55 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT1001OMMEG9K@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:39:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id WAA1446576; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:34:48 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? To: Kevin Huotari Cc: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <38F7FF78.CB21949A@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------20C223E40C91A69E750C728D" X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> <4.1.20000414215609.00c004b0@pop.mindspring.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------20C223E40C91A69E750C728D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, YES, I did order extra boards! It looks like the bare PC boards will run about $45 each. I'm still working on pricing the BOM for the assembled version. $$$ and delivery will be a function of parts availability (some could take quite a while to get and as you might guess the more you pay the faster the delivery), assembly turnaround schedule, build quantity, tooling setup costs, etc. I'm also eagerly waiting to hear how things develop with Adam's and JD's Flash programmer efforts. I'll keep you up to date as thing progress (FYI: I'll be on travel all next week so if you send a follow up e-mail and I don't answer it for a while you'll know why.) Greg Kevin Huotari wrote: > Hi Greg, I'm new to the list and may have missed a call for participation > in your board purchase. I'm in L.A. (that's Los Angeles), but still rather > nearby. Did you make a few extra, and if you did, are you selling them? I'd > like to get in on the purchase, if possible. Let me know what the cost is. > I'm also interested in your assembly plans. kh > > At 06:39 PM 4/14/00 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm expecting a group LART Mainboards back from the board fabricator on > >24th of this month (April). Theses are the bare PC boards not the > >assembled units. --------------20C223E40C91A69E750C728D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------20C223E40C91A69E750C728D-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 09:15:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12409 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:15:44 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12405 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:15:43 +0200 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT10032CQU6F2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:15:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [62.6.88.245] (helo=silmaril.co.uk) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gMdO-0001bQ-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:04:51 +0100 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:08:11 +0000 From: Gav Reid Subject: New to List To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F8236B.B7A09462@silmaril.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0smp i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi , I am new to this list so I thought I had better intoduce myself : I am Gav I work for Agilent Technologies and my Self and am looking for a good hardware platform to build some nice toys with (toys being mp3 players etc) - Which I think I have found , Well done -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 09:19:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12457 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:19:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12453 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:19:15 +0200 Received: from tantalum (tantalum.btinternet.com [194.73.73.80]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT10034FR01F2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:19:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [62.6.88.245] (helo=silmaril.co.uk) by tantalum with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gMah-0002JY-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:02:03 +0100 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:05:16 +0000 From: Gav Reid Subject: Re: LART parts To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F822BC.6C6C1170@silmaril.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0smp i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk is there anyone in uk/europe taking orders for complete(or kit) lart MB ? if so I will have 2 nad 2 KSB's when ready Gav -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 11:31:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13718 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:31:02 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13695; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:29:54 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <001001bfa659$f326ce10$7671c13f@local.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:24:01 +0200 To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Open Source CAD tools Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Really those software >developers on the list should consider helping out with the gEDA project >in particular gPCB which needs a lot of work and could do with extra >developers. See the links on the PLEB web page >(http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pleb) which is linked from the LART pages. Strongly seconded. I would *love* to be able to share the object files of the LART and related designs; currently there's no 'open' way to have collaboration on a project like this. So if any developers out there are looking for a cool project, check out http://www.geda.seul.org/ . JDB [who'll re-evaluate gEDA soonish -- it's been over six months] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 11:35:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13768 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:35:15 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13764 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:34:55 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA13699; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:34:42 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:34:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004150934.LAA13699@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: sydbarrett74@hotmail.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blop / OpenBoot? In-Reply-To: <20000414224839.63088.qmail@hotmail.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:45:42 -0400, Crazy Diamond wrote: > Is Blob OpenBoot(tm)-compliant? Why not just use Grub or another such > boot-loader? No, it's not OpenBoot compliant. We (= JDB and myself) wrote blob simply because we wanted to get things done. And we both love the KISS principle. Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 11:44:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13840 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:04 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13836; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:02 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F7C180.5C3B1963@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:38:44 +0200 To: Jeff Davies From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Congrats to the team Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >This is an excellent project, and many thanks for contributing it to the >public domain (it is pd >isn't it?). It has an open license (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/LICENSE); it's not PD. >The two obvious uses are Palm Pilot type device (the 'linot'??) whynot >linot?? >and Diamond Rio type device (the Riot?)...... > >Another set of ideas are: > >1. Slot in RAM+CPU cards for a PC type multiprocessor. >Imagine a PC size box, you open the lid and slot in another LART into >you desktop beowulf. Oh but I do have plans in that direction; why else do you think we'd be building 100 of them :) >2. Network switch/hub. >3. Open printer design. >4. open CADCAM machine design. Including CNC drilling of PCB boards. >5. Use in radio controlling of model aircraft. >6. Robot control. There's plenty I/O capacity for that, yes. >PS. I squeezed down Slackware into about a floppy size image, put onto >Compact Flash, and plugged into PC104 AMD 486, sending data using UDP >packets to a host over a wireless LAN. >Do you plan a PCMCIA socket, or perhaps wireless lan chipset >onboard.!!!?? I've a PCMCIA interface that will be sent to the PCB shop next week. Will post it to the site as soon as I find some time. >This was to measure body movement metrics. Your system is lighter, >MUCH lighter on battery power, and smaller. Have you a 16 bit ADC, and >easy way to add MUX.... I'm working on a design for an A/D - D/A interface to the GP pins of the LCD interface. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 11:44:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13860 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:30 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13856 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:29 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA13758; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:16 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:44:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004150944.LAA13758@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: muks@hd2.dot.net.in Cc: nolan_d@bigfoot.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: <009f01bfa684$c4fbe680$6515c5cb@muks> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:16:14 +0530, Mukund Iyer wrote: > one question, since i don't have a lart here: > > is glibc ported to the lart? it sure sounds a stupid question, > but i'm curious. has the glibc been ported along with GCC? > do i have functions such as socket(), printf(), sin(), cos(), etc. > available for use? cause i'll need fread() for one to read those MP3s.. > and would i be able to use it as a shared library? Glibc has been ported to ArmLinux, so it also runs on the LART. Same for gcc, so all your favourite software can be ported to ArmLinux. Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 11:46:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13895 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:46:39 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13891 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:46:38 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA13771; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:46:25 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:46:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004150946.LAA13771@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: muks@hd2.dot.net.in Cc: nolan_d@bigfoot.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Possible use for LART? In-Reply-To: <009f01bfa684$c4fbe680$6515c5cb@muks> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:16:14 +0530, Mukund Iyer wrote: > btw: is an (strong)ARM simulator available for x86 somewhere? > would make my life a lot easier right now :) Oops! Forgot to answer this question. Yes, there seems to be a complete ARM simulator in the latest gdb snapshots. I haven't tried it yet, though. Erik %-) -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 15:03:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15079 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:03:37 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15075 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:03:37 +0200 Received: from web3206.mail.yahoo.com (web3206.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.202.203]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT2008EC6XYIR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:03:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [216.252.186.226] by web3206.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Ghazan Haider Subject: How do you soldier the strongarm? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000415125925.17223.qmail@web3206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I have several chips with me including Am386 strongarms and PICs but I can only soldier DIP/DIL ICs. I can photo-etch pretty finely detailed PCBs with laser printer but QFTP etc packages have legs too tiny to individually soldier. Someone please tell me how can u do that on a low budget (cant buy a robotic IC placer). If there are good sites (coundnt find something on jameco) which detail such processes or sell (cheap enough for an undergrad) such tools, reference would be appreciated. Thakn You en avance. Ghazan Haider THC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 15:10:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15123 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:10:39 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15119; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:10:37 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F86585.8E1A6BA9@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:07:29 +0200 To: Jeff Davies From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Congrats to the team Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to LART] >Have you seen the www.opencores.org site? >Any plans to maybe put a OR1K processor on a board later on? I would if I had cheap access to a foundry. Maybe there will be an FPGA board for LART later that's large enough tho. >They've got Ether, VGA, Float unit, EIDE, PCI 32/64. Firewire, UART, ATM, >USB cores on their site. No they don't. Try following some of their links and look at the status. I do like the opencores concept, but apart from the processor most cores are in the "wouldn't it be nice"-stage. JDB. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 16:27:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15599 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:27:41 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15595 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:27:41 +0200 Received: from toad.mindrot.org (toad.mindrot.org [203.36.198.110]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT200AC1AU0GZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:27:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mothra.mindrot.org (mothra.mindrot.org [203.44.118.225]) by toad.mindrot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACAA627592; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:27:29 +1000 (EST) Received: by mothra.mindrot.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 0863727446; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:27:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mothra.mindrot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D9E17927; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:27:28 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:27:27 +1000 (EST) From: Damien Miller Subject: Re: Congrats to the team In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Paranoia: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > [cc-ed to LART] > > >Have you seen the www.opencores.org site? > >Any plans to maybe put a OR1K processor on a board later on? > > I would if I had cheap access to a foundry. Maybe there will be an FPGA > board for LART later that's large enough tho. I want this so I can run http://www.free-ip.com/DES/ on it :) -d -- | "Bombay is 250ms from New York in the new world order" - Alan Cox | Damien Miller - http://www.mindrot.org/ | Email: djm@mindrot.org (home) -or- djm@ibs.com.au (work) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 15 21:45:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17629 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:45:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17625 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:45:14 +0200 Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT200FLBPJC5B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:45:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports.everyone.net [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BF61879; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 60001) id BC5E4E0B0; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: Lachlan Audas Subject: Re: How do you soldier the strongarm? To: Ghazan Haider , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: laudas@firstlinux.net Message-id: <20000415193034.BC5E4E0B0@sitemail.everyone.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Content-type: text/plain Content-disposition: inline X-Originating-Ip: [209.253.72.25] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Ghazan, This is what works for me with good result's. It works on PCB'S with-out solder mask. And should work ok on board's with solder mask. (Save's on solder mask if you getting proto's done ! ) It works well on chips down to 0.02" (20mil) lead spacing. Have not tryed it on 0.015 chips as I have no boards using chips lead spacing that small. The bigest problem is placing the chip's, for that you need good eye's and 2x magmifer lamp or better. Next is keeping the chip is place while you trying to solder it, for that use "TAC.N.PLACE" it's made by "Ambriod Company" I get that from my local kit/hobby store. You first paint on a coating of "TAC.N.PLACE" where you wont place the chip. (also works well for chip cap/res parts too) Dont make it too think or too thin. (you will have to play with this a bit to get the right) Allow to dry, (dry's clear) Next place the chip and solder 2 or 3 pin's of the IC. (opsit side's of the chip of corse !! ) for that you need good soldering iron with a fine tip. Don't worry if you get a short, to the near-by pin's. (what dont worry you say !!! ) Yup the following tricks take care of the short's. Next remove the "RAC.N.PLACE" with Acetone and brush. Take care no to bend any pine's. Now you need Multicore's "MULTIFIX 450-01 rework flux" this stuff make's solding QFP ic's as easy as falling of a log. It's also important that YOU DONT'T use... I repeat DON'T use a find tip, to solder the leads. The a tip to use is .1" round and with 45 deg cut. for a flat surface. Check my bad art work below :) / / / / \ _/ / / / / <- solder tip / / Chip / / __________ /_ _/ XXXXXXXXXX\ -----------\______ <- chips lead's ___________________________________ ----------------------------------- ^ PCB ^ This tip allow's you to solder more than one pin at the time. Apply the bead of MULTIFX 450 around the the QFP IC, over the leads. Now go around with the soldering tip in this bead (note you only need a 500 deg's temp for all of this solding 600-700 temp is just to hot) This will allow the the rework flux to run under the chip and around the pin's. Now aply a small amout of solder to the tip of the iron, and aply the tip to the chip leads. And work along the chip. Dont drag the tip acrose the lead's as this will bend the leads. Just up down action as you move along. The rework flux helps keep the the solder from shorting out the leads. If you get a short, clean the tip (real clean) and apply the lead's where the short is, the tip will remove some of the solder. removing the short. You may need to repeat the above step if you have a lot of solder in the short. Now clean the rework flux off, and check it all. As away's try on some test chips and board's first. to get this right. Hope this helps. Oh excuse my spelling and english. Lachlan. --- Ghazan Haider > wrote: >Hi, I have several chips with me including Am386 >strongarms and PICs but I can only soldier DIP/DIL >ICs. I can photo-etch pretty finely detailed PCBs with >laser printer but QFTP etc packages have legs too tiny >to individually soldier. Someone please tell me how >can u do that on a low budget (cant buy a robotic IC >placer). If there are good sites (coundnt find >something on jameco) which detail such processes or >sell (cheap enough for an undergrad) such tools, >reference would be appreciated. Thakn You en avance. >Ghazan Haider >THC > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. >http://invites.yahoo.com >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _____________________________________________________________ Want a new web-based email account ? ---> http://www.firstlinux.net -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 00:12:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18661 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:12:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18657 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:12:28 +0200 Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT200HEPWCQFH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:12:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports.everyone.net [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8451886; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 60001) id E0E02608F; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:57:45 -0800 (PST) From: Lachlan Audas Subject: 100 meg ethernet To: laudas@firstlinux.net, Ghazan Haider , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: laudas@firstlinux.net Message-id: <20000415215745.E0E02608F@sitemail.everyone.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Content-type: text/plain Content-disposition: inline X-Originating-Ip: [209.253.72.10] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi every one, Is there in plans for doing a 100 meg ethernet ? Lachlan Audas. _____________________________________________________________ Access the world's best search engines instantly at... http://web.firstlinux.net -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 00:21:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18743 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:21:20 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18738; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:21:16 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000415215745.E0E02608F@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:21:08 +0200 To: laudas@firstlinux.net From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: 100 meg ethernet Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Is there in plans for doing a 100 meg ethernet ? No shortage of plans; we just lack a supplier for non-PCI 100B-T chips. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 01:48:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA19444 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:48:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA19440 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:48:00 +0200 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT300IPU0RYQC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:47:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.vt.edu (gkar.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.40]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16801 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemorga2 ([198.82.100.74]) by gkar.cc.vt.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FT300DTS0OLGU@gkar.cc.vt.edu> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:45:57 -0400 From: George Morgan Subject: Re: 100 meg ethernet In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38F8C6F5.16469.CEC850@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20000415215745.E0E02608F@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Your best bet for 100 mbit ethernet right now is a pcmcia adapter... I looked around a bit and was very surprised when I saw the cirrus logic spec sheet for the current chip. There isn't a large market for that kind of chip so there aren't many available (only found that one) > >Is there in plans for doing a 100 meg ethernet ? > > No shortage of plans; we just lack a supplier for non-PCI 100B-T chips. > > JDB. > > -- > They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may > be slow, but he'll eventually get them. > -- Matthew Lammers in ASR > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 George Morgan Virginia Tech Electrical Engineering Class of 2000! (Graduating in 2001, Co-op) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 05:10:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20499 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 05:10:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20495 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 05:10:09 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT300L02A4TKH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 05:10:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 13:08:18 +1000 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 13:08:17 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: How do you soldier the strongarm? In-reply-to: <20000415125925.17223.qmail@web3206.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Ghazan Haider Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The SA-1100 can be easily soldered by hand using a micro-wave tip which is a mini reflowing tip, some flux and some fine wire solder. Anyone with SMD soldering experience can put an SA-1100 down with the right tip and a good temp controled station. Cheers Adam On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Ghazan Haider wrote: > Hi, I have several chips with me including Am386 > strongarms and PICs but I can only soldier DIP/DIL > ICs. I can photo-etch pretty finely detailed PCBs with > laser printer but QFTP etc packages have legs too tiny > to individually soldier. Someone please tell me how > can u do that on a low budget (cant buy a robotic IC > placer). If there are good sites (coundnt find > something on jameco) which detail such processes or > sell (cheap enough for an undergrad) such tools, > reference would be appreciated. Thakn You en avance. > Ghazan Haider > THC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 14:08:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22328 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:08:40 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22323; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:08:38 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38F8C6F5.16469.CEC850@localhost> References: <20000415215745.E0E02608F@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:08:21 +0200 To: George Morgan From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: 100 meg ethernet Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 01:45 +0200 16-04-2000, George Morgan wrote: >Your best bet for 100 mbit ethernet right now is a pcmcia adapter... Yes and no. While a (non-Cardbus) 100B-T PCMCIA card will work, it is going to be dog slow (as most of them consist of the equivalent of a PCI NIC and a PCI-ISA bridge). There are some 100Mbit chips with 'regular' interfaces, like the LAN91C100FD by SMC, but I haven't yet found a supplier that will sell them in small quantities. Mind you I haven't had the time to look too hard either. > I looked around a bit and was very surprised when I saw the cirrus >logic spec sheet for the current chip. There isn't a large market for >that kind of chip so there aren't many available (only found that one) Actually there's quite a large market: embedded devices. For those 10Mbit is plenty, and quite some suppliers (Intel, National, SMC come to mind) have revamped versions of their old ISA chips. The Crystal one we use (after a recommendation by Alan Cox) is particularly nice in that it has an on chip packet buffer. JDB. -- In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- RFC 1925, "Fundamental Truths of Networking" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 18:22:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23160 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:22:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23156 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:22:18 +0200 Received: from mailhub2.shef.ac.uk (mailhub2.shef.ac.uk [143.167.2.154]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT4007L0AT5OS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:22:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ra212032.shef.ac.uk ([143.167.212.32] helo=el1iw) by mailhub2.shef.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.02 #2) id 12grZu-0006Sr-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:07:18 +0100 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:05:27 +0100 From: Ian Wraith Subject: Getting hold of SA-1100's X-Sender: el1iw@ridingwood.shef.ac.uk To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3.0.5.32.20000416170527.0085b540@ridingwood.shef.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello I am trying to price up the parts for a LART. So I looked on the Intel web site for British distributers of the SA-1100 and a couple are listed. However neither will answer the phone or my e mail enquiries. So can anyone suggest a good supplier of these IC's in the EU ? Or could you tell me how much these cost if bought in small quantites ? Thanks for your time. Regards Ian Wraith i.wraith@sheffield.ac.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 20:24:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23739 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:24:38 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23735 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:24:37 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:23:25 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Getting hold of SA-1100's Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Hello > I am trying to price up the parts for a LART. So I looked on the Intel >web site for British distributers of the SA-1100 and a couple are listed. >However neither will answer the phone or my e mail enquiries. So can anyone >suggest a good supplier of these IC's in the EU ? Suppliers don't call you back. Ever. At least not for the measly $50k that I was throwing around. In my experience none of the distributors is properly set up for e-mail enquiries yet. Surprised me a bit to find that out. Keep calling them. Call them the day after they promised they would call you back. Stick with one rep (ie the same guy). Sad but true. Try the US distributors listed at http://developer.intel.com/design/disti/ ; they are usually better set up to deal with small quantity orders. Have a creditcard handy. I get my parts through Memec (http://www.memec.com/). > Or could you tell me how >much these cost if bought in small quantites ? Between US$50 and US$100, depending upon the part speed, quantity, distributor and the phase of the moon. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 22:26:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24369 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:26:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24363 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:26:02 +0200 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400DKGM3EMI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:26:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-132.california.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.56.132] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12gvUa-00021e-00; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:18:05 +0100 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:20:49 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: Congrats to the team To: Damien Miller Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FA20A1.A3B40DED@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Damien Miller wrote: > On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > [cc-ed to LART] > > > > >Have you seen the www.opencores.org site? > > >Any plans to maybe put a OR1K processor on a board later on? > > > > I would if I had cheap access to a foundry. Maybe there will be an FPGA > > board for LART later that's large enough tho. > > I want this so I can run http://www.free-ip.com/DES/ on it :) tee hee ... naughty boy Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 16 23:41:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24712 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:41:37 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24708 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:41:36 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (ha1.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com [24.2.10.66]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400FHUPLBZJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:41:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cs80153-a.gvdt1.bc.wave.home.com ([24.64.212.131]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <20000416213900.GWSE14199.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com@cs80153-a.gvdt1.bc.wave.home.com> for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:39:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:43:03 -0700 From: Scott Ritchie Subject: New to List X-Sender: s.ritchie@netmail.home.com To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <2.2.32.20000416214303.0088a944@netmail.home.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all I was wondering if there was anybody in the Victoria/Vancouver, BC or Seattle area building Larts or would like to? Scott -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 00:29:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25002 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:29:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24998 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:29:42 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (ha1.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com [24.2.10.66]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400GD1RTGST@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:29:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cs80153-a.gvdt1.bc.wave.home.com ([24.64.212.131]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <20000416222713.GYLW14199.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com@cs80153-a.gvdt1.bc.wave.home.com> for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 15:27:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 15:31:17 -0700 From: Scott Ritchie Subject: Re: New to List X-Sender: s.ritchie@netmail.home.com To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hugues I haven't sourced anything yet, I think I'll start with finding a company to produce the boards. As for my own plans. I've been drooling over the prospect of a wareable for sometime. The MIT wareable page has been really helpful, but they tend to use the PC104 with Intel chips. Until I saw LART on /. , I was waiting for someone to product a board with a Crusoe chip. Scott At 06:07 AM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi I'm in Ontario and I'm also looking for someone to built a bunch of >these puppies, let me know if you find anyone... > >I'm curious what are you planning to use these for ? >I'm trying to assemble a group of people for a little project of my >own.... > > >Scott Ritchie wrote: > >> Hi all >> I was wondering if there was anybody in the Victoria/Vancouver, BC or >> Seattle area building Larts or would like to? >> Scott >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 00:47:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25068 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:47:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25064 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:47:11 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400GO3SMKST@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:47:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA07531 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:43:14 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA18657 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:44:15 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:44:15 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: StrongARM reviews ? X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was wondering if there are any sites with reviews about the StrongARM (what it can and cannot do). Because I heard that the strongARM don't have a good FPU so you couldn't play games/mp3s on them. Would like to find benchmarks and such information on them if possible. Sorry for the repost, I had a lot of trouble trying to setup procmail to send everything from this mailing-list to a seperate mail file. If anyone is already doing this, would you mind telling me which rules you are using ? Cause there doesn't seem to be a unique thing that's always in every email sent to the list. Thanks David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 01:24:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25406 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:24:41 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25402 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:24:40 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400I4DUD3M6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:24:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.54]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:27:06 -0600 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:03:31 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: a small proposal In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> To: Scott Ritchie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few percentage points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a 30% profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from the board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to get. (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and cost effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message archive, regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to handle this? Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( http://www.paypal.com ) regards Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Scott Ritchie wrote: > Hugues > I haven't sourced anything yet, I think I'll start with finding a company > to produce the boards. > As for my own plans. I've been drooling over the prospect of a wareable for > sometime. The MIT wareable page has been really helpful, but they tend to > use the PC104 with Intel chips. Until I saw LART on /. , I was waiting for > someone to product a board with a Crusoe chip. > Scott > > > At 06:07 AM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi I'm in Ontario and I'm also looking for someone to built a bunch of > >these puppies, let me know if you find anyone... > > > >I'm curious what are you planning to use these for ? > >I'm trying to assemble a group of people for a little project of my > >own.... > > > > > >Scott Ritchie wrote: > > > >> Hi all > >> I was wondering if there was anybody in the Victoria/Vancouver, BC or > >> Seattle area building Larts or would like to? > >> Scott > >> > >> -- > >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > >> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > >> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 01:28:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25424 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:28:58 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25420 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:28:57 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:26:54 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: StrongARM reviews ? Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >I was wondering if there are any sites with reviews about the StrongARM >(what it can and cannot do). Because I heard that the strongARM don't >have a good FPU so you couldn't play games/mp3s on them. Would like to >find benchmarks and such information on them if possible. What kind of benchmarks are you looking for ? Depending on the task, it runs at a similar speed as a Pentiun 180 - 230 (at 10%-20% of the power usage). In some areas handtuning can be a big help; especially with problem sets that may just fit into the cache if coded right. Note that this isn't a board you'd use for a desktop, and mobile/wearable displays tend to have lower resolution. I know that the Itsy boys had Doom running; we keep bugging Johan to do a Quake port 8) >Sorry for the repost, I had a lot of trouble trying to setup procmail to >send everything from this mailing-list to a seperate mail file. If anyone >is already doing this, would you mind telling me which rules you are using >? Cause there doesn't seem to be a unique thing that's always in every >email sent to the list. As with most all majordomo lists, the Sender: header is always owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl . That's what I use for a filter; hasn't failed me yet. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 01:45:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25529 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:45:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25525 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:45:51 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400IMZVCD56@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:45:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA07592 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:45:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA18890 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:46:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:46:49 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Could canadian be in there too ? ;-) David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few percentage > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a 30% > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from the > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to get. > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and cost > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message archive, > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to > handle this? > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > http://www.paypal.com ) > regards > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > > > > > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Scott Ritchie wrote: > > Hugues > > I haven't sourced anything yet, I think I'll start with finding a company > > to produce the boards. > > As for my own plans. I've been drooling over the prospect of a wareable for > > sometime. The MIT wareable page has been really helpful, but they tend to > > use the PC104 with Intel chips. Until I saw LART on /. , I was waiting for > > someone to product a board with a Crusoe chip. > > Scott > > > > > > At 06:07 AM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi I'm in Ontario and I'm also looking for someone to built a bunch of > > >these puppies, let me know if you find anyone... > > > > > >I'm curious what are you planning to use these for ? > > >I'm trying to assemble a group of people for a little project of my > > >own.... > > > > > > > > >Scott Ritchie wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all > > >> I was wondering if there was anybody in the Victoria/Vancouver, BC or > > >> Seattle area building Larts or would like to? > > >> Scott > > >> > > >> -- > > >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > >> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > >> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 01:46:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25536 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:46:17 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25531; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:46:11 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:44:02 +0200 To: dogman@bitterroot.net From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: Scott Ritchie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... >For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the >production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There >already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. >I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few >percentage >points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm >mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card >from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks lead time). We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet combo. Note that shipping to the US will drive up small qty pricing. I have absolutely no problem with (and possibly even a preference for) one party collecting orders and getting one big NL->US shipment of PCBs. An even more viable business model occurs if that party were to buy the 'difficult' parts (CPU, Flash, DRAM) and maybe sell partly mounted kits. If you're going for economy of scale it may be worth going that extra mile. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 02:07:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25663 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:07:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25659 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:07:27 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400IHJWCDM6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:07:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12751 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:03:14 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:03:13 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: BOOOOOM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk J.D., do you all have the list of parts you ordered? we're mainly interested in little things like sizes of resistors and caps and what not, and making sure everything is accounted for. we'll also be willing to share the part numbers and all for those in the US to order from newark and arrow. thanks, rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 02:13:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25710 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25703 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:27 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400J8WWMD11@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.54]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:15:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:59:34 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" , dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: Scott Ritchie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041618091603.08671@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk JD Baker, I don't have any "enterprising dreams"....................................................... I just need a card or two, and am here in the hinterlands where it's difficult to get this kind of prototyping done, so I wouldn't be the guy to make a small fortune (???) on the production. I was just hoping that this proposal could expidite the cards being made, and to find a way to get the guy's expenses covered. Sure I'd be willing to spend a little on shipping if it could drop the price of either a finished MotherBoard or a unstuffed motherboard with the parts necessary to finish it. It will be a tedious job to solder in a bunch of SMD parts, so I was hoping for a stuffed board. The prices you are quoting are even better then I thought. Email me when you are ready to ship. regards Doug Moreen On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... > > >For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > >production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > >already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > >I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > >percentage > >points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > >mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > >from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. > > Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 > costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks > lead time). > > We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > combo. > > Note that shipping to the US will drive up small qty pricing. I have > absolutely no problem with (and possibly even a preference for) one party > collecting orders and getting one big NL->US shipment of PCBs. An even more > viable business model occurs if that party were to buy the 'difficult' > parts (CPU, Flash, DRAM) and maybe sell partly mounted kits. > > If you're going for economy of scale it may be worth going that extra mile. > > JDB. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 02:13:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25727 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25723 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:46 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400J92WMX11@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:13:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.67] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE634DC20296; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:21:55 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:24:48 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? Cc: Lart Mail Server Message-id: <38F7EF10.FAB56B4A@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> <38F7C849.24A12447@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk If you're willing to sell a very few of them, please let me know too if you don't mind. I figure about five would do for experimental purposes for myself - though I'd settle for less. Now I need to gather all the rest of the bits and pieces... :) Thanks, Mike Greg Fountain wrote: > I'm expecting a group LART Mainboards back from the board fabricator on > 24th of this month (April). Theses are the bare PC boards not the > assembled units. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 02:31:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25828 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:31:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25824 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:31:12 +0200 Received: from mrs-1.smartworld.net (mrs-1-fix.smartworld.net [216.70.64.24]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400J0HXFWJV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:31:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from linux.de (IDENT:phil@1Cust8.tnt14.krk1.da.uu.net [63.26.25.8]) by mrs-1.smartworld.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA46423 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:22:37 +0200 From: Philipp Knirsch Subject: ANNOUNCE: Gerber RS-247D/X viewer in Java To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <3946359D.9444E37D@linux.de> Organization: Freelance IT professional MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi folks. As i was pretty bored on Saturday and had nothing better to do (and my EigerMan hadn't arrived yet), i i'd sit down and hack togehter something. The viewer is only for the Gerber RS-247X/D format with printing and image export included. The whole thing is written in Java, so platform independance is practially guaranteed. The code itself has 2 parts, one being the main application which only acts as an interface to the virtual plotter (as i called it), which simulates to some degree the behaviour of a real world plotter (in a state machine). The output has to be a Java Graphics context, like a Frame or a PrintJob or an off- screen image, so export to other graphic formats shouldn't be a big problem. Ah yes, one thing: The code is pre alpha 0.1, so don't expect too much yet. For one apertures aren't handled yet correctly, so neither line thickness nor flashes work correctly. Also the extended commands are not yet parsed much, so it's mainly a RS-247D viewer up to now and things like magnification have to be adjusted by hand. I'll try to fix that in the future releases as best as i can. My personal todo list has the correct handling of apertures on top, at least simple ones (not the ones with parameters), then more parsing of the extended commands and logically always bug fixes and/or corrections to the drawing behaviour. So it doesn't work 100% yet, but following the guideline of ESR i went after the motto: 'Release early, release often' principle. Most of the small examples are already partially and from a geometry standpoint correctly drawn (at least i hope so ;), haven't had the nerve to try out bigger ones yet. I'll put it up today on my homepage and you can download it here: http://www.wizards.de/phil/java/rs247x.html Have fun, Read ya, Phil PS: Some of the examples given on the 'official' PDF docu are invalid according to the same spec they gave a couple of pages earlier or display not what they say it would display (e.g. the arrow. Try to follow the path yourself, you'll see the error in the end of the area fill list), which is pretty bad. Nonetheless the stuff works fairly good and none of the mistakes are really major or would hint to a completely other interpretation of the specs. PPS: Don't send me 10000 examples or wishes yet! I first want to get the code to at least behave the way it should. After that i'll be happy to extend it more and more, but i want to have a stable base version first. PPPS: Last but not least (yeah, i know, i could have written all that in the upper text, but i was to lazy ;): The code is released under GPL, so feel free to copy and modify it as you wish. PPPPS: Ha, one last thing: I am currently in Seattle and only have my very small and little Libretto CT50 to do the whole development, so editing, compiling and testing takes some time, despite the fact that i am already using the IBM JDK 1.18 and the jikes Java compiler (which is a darn fast beast!). I am also here to do 'normal' work during the week, so i'll mainly get to work on this thing on the weekends, so don't expect any major releases until next weekend. -- _________ _______ _____ ___ _ \__________/ \________/ \______/ \____/ \__/ \/\| Philipp Knirsch Unix, Database, Internet and Java consulting, programming and design. phone: +49 7121 907033 mobil: +49 179 2922425 email: phil@linux.de www: http://www.wizards.de/phil Motd: Never run a changing system... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 02:42:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25881 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:42:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25877 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:42:10 +0200 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT400J3QXY9JV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:42:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc4s07a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.231.197] helo=rentbert) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gzb7-0000Vi-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:41:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:34:49 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: I want to live in the usa =/ To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <008b01bfa805$99f471a0$08fefea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01BFA80D.1F10D020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BFA80D.1F10D020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am in the EU and am like many people having problems pricing the parts = etc So does any on also in the eu specifically the UK have = prices/distributers for the hard to find stuff(a uk user will know what = is hard to find=3D). Thanks in advance P.S Great Project Guys, Well Done have a pat on the Back from me=3D) -RG ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BFA80D.1F10D020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am in the EU and am like many people having = problems pricing=20 the parts etc So does any on also in the eu specifically the UK have=20 prices/distributers for the hard to find stuff(a uk user will know what = is hard=20 to find=3D).
 
Thanks in advance
 
P.S
Great Project Guys, Well Done have a pat on the Back = from=20 me=3D)
 
-RG
------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BFA80D.1F10D020-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:25:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26577 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:25:58 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26572; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:25:54 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1256184141==_============" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:25:48 +0200 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: BOOOOOM Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk --============_-1256184141==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:03 +0200 17-04-2000, rob wrote: >J.D., > do you all have the list of parts you ordered? Just when I get out of bed to eat some yoghurt you come and ask me for a BOM. Oh well, even less sleep then. Hope you're happy ;-) BOM attached. JD 'sleepless in ... well ... Amstelveen' B. --============_-1256184141==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; name="LART_bom.txt"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="LART_bom.txt" Bill of Materials for LART rev 3. This BOM has tab-separated fields. Components Description Qty Farnell Europe catalog number Comments "C1-C49,C53,C54,C60" Decoupling capacitor; 100n 16V 0805 52 317-676 "C50,C51" AVR TPSD476K016R0150 47u 16V low-ESR tantalum capacitor 2 570-400 C55-C59 AVR TPSD157K006R0125 150u 6V3 low-ESR tantalum capacitor 5 570-333 C61 Capacitor 330p 16V 0805 1 499-183 D1 Siemens LST676 Hyper Red LED 1 515-632 D2-D4 IRF 30BQ040 3A Schottky Power Diode 3 506-758 J1 FCI (formerly Berg) 61082-101000 100pin 0.8mm pitch SMD socket 1 973-336 J2-J4 Harwin M22-6124022 40pin 2mm pitch double row socket 3 672-439 J5 Molex 53261-1090 10pin 1.27mm PCB header 1 889-416 JTAG 8 pin 0.1in 90 degrees single row pin header 1 512-163 POWER 4 pin 0.1in 90 degrees single row pin header 1 512-163 RESET 2 pin 0.1in 90 degrees single row pin header 1 512-163 RS232 6 pin 0.1in 90 degrees double row pin header 1 512-175 "L1,L2" Siemens B82111-E-C22 22uH 3A Axial Inductor 2 608-671 "R1,R2" Resistor 1k 0805 2 911-239 R11 Resistor 18k 0805 1% 1 911-380 See schematics for values of R10 and R11 if Vcore of U1 is not 2V R3-R5 Resistor 0R068 1206 1% 3 156-243 R6-R8 Resistor 0R01 1206 1% 3 156-188 "R9,R10,R12,R13" Resistor 33k 0805 1% 4 911-410 "T1,T2" Fairchild NDH834P Power P-MOS FET 2 932-577 T3 Fairchild FDV301N N-MOS FET 1 995-848 U1 Intel SA-1100 processor in LQFP package 1 - U2-U3 Intel DT28F160F3B Fast Boot Block Flash memory 2 - U4-U7 NEC uPD465165 64Mbit 4Mx16 EDO DRAM 4 - "Other mfgr types possible (ISSI, Micron,Ö)" U8 74LVC157D 3V3 Quad 2-in Mux in SO package 1 111-934 U9 Maxim MAX811SEUS Microprocessor Supervisory Circuit 1 787-619 U10 Maxim MAX3223ECAP RS232 Transceiver 1 - U11 Maxim MAX1626 DC-DC Controller 1 - U12 Maxim MAX1627 DC-DC Controller 1 - X1 3.6864MHz Xtal in HC49/4H package 1 221-557 X2 32.768KHz Xtal in Watch package 1 103-868 --============_-1256184141==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- "... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery --============_-1256184141==_============-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:32:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26661 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:32:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26657 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:32:13 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500K9M31NI2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:32:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.68.157]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21535 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:55:32 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:59:57 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: everybody needs a lart here... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004201bfa814$d3220e60$9d4436ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk i guess this is a serious thing. can atleast someone tell me what i can do to write lart software? ok, i can use the cross compiler, but how can i test whether the binaries actually run as intended? will the gdb simulator help here? how can i test the kitchen sink with the gdb sim? no.. i need one of 'em larts.. and if i write an MP3 player, what are my input and output options? how do i use the display? how do i handle input? cmon, i don't want to do stdin/stdout! :) i wanna port quake! btw, i'm really serious about getting a lart myself. i live in india. now, ain't that far worse than the rest? NO WAY! i'm going to get one. - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:37:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26725 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:37:59 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26720; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:37:54 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003a01bfa814$254bcc40$9d4436ca@muks> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:37:38 +0200 To: Mukund Iyer From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: StrongARM reviews ? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >you say the itsy boys had doom running... >i have read little about the itsy, but one of the things i read >was that if there was no input activity, the rest of the itsy >would actually shutdown and keep only the display unit alive. >how would a game which needs a constant refresh run something like >doom? Hmm, I find it hard to imagine that you'd play a game of Doom with no input activity :) Seriously, I expect the shutdown behaviour is switchable. >i am interested in doing that quake port. but i need to know about >programming for the display and sound, apart from the input unit. >how much work has been done here? what kind of kitchen sink drivers >are available? There is a pretty OK frame buffer driver (fbdev) for the SA-1100 in the kernel; this takes one hour tops to customize for a specific LCD. As for the KSB audio; this will be standard /dev/dsp; with the exception that it's strictly 16bit stereo 44k1 (or 48k, depending on which crystal you mount on the KSB). JDB [who can't wait to play Marathon on LART, now Bungie have released the source] -- "A satisfied customer ? We ought to have him stuffed !" -- Basil Fawlty -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:38:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26744 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:38:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26740 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:38:50 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500KCD3CPI2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:38:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from comanchetx.com [63.64.123.18] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A83F5E50218; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:34:39 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:35:43 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: mike@mjv.com Message-id: <38FA787F.BA68DB14@comanchetx.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <00041618091603.08671@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'll settle for the pcb and a bag of parts (or a few of them depending on how the price goes) - a friend of mine used to do soldering of the same type of chips and surface-mounts for nokia, so I at least have someone to look over my shoulder... I'm interested in the whole shabang - LART, KSB and Eth... Mike Doug Moreen wrote: > > JD Baker, > > I don't have any "enterprising > dreams"....................................................... > I just need a card or two, and am here in the hinterlands where it's difficult > to get this kind of prototyping done, so I wouldn't be the guy to make a small > fortune (???) on the production. I was just hoping that this proposal could > expidite the cards being made, and to find a way to get the guy's expenses > covered. > > Sure I'd be willing to spend a little on shipping if it could drop the price of > either a finished MotherBoard or a unstuffed motherboard with the parts > necessary to finish it. It will be a tedious job to solder in a bunch of SMD > parts, so I was hoping for a stuffed board. The prices you are quoting are even > better then I thought. Email me when you are ready to ship. > regards > Doug Moreen > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... > > > > >For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > > >production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > > >already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > > >I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > > >percentage > > >points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > > >mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > > >from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. > > > > Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 > > costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks > > lead time). > > > > We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > combo. > > > > Note that shipping to the US will drive up small qty pricing. I have > > absolutely no problem with (and possibly even a preference for) one party > > collecting orders and getting one big NL->US shipment of PCBs. An even more > > viable business model occurs if that party were to buy the 'difficult' > > parts (CPU, Flash, DRAM) and maybe sell partly mounted kits. > > > > If you're going for economy of scale it may be worth going that extra mile. > > > > JDB. > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > -- > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:46:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26812 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:46:21 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26808 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:46:20 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:46:07 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: [off-topic] Any ornithologists out there ? Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, Why is it that those sodding birds out here decide that 4:40AM is a perfectly acceptable time to start chattering ? It's still *dark* ! GO TO SLEEP already ! JDB. [whaddaya mean off-topic ? I'm the smeggin' listadmin, I get to decide what's off-topic or not!] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:51:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26884 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26880 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:16 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500KJO3XEEH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.18] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB504203DE; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:47:44 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:49:19 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FA7BAF.DD1E8845@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Put me down as a participant. Quantity will depend on price... Mike Doug Moreen wrote: > > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few percentage > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a 30% > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from the > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to get. > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and cost > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message archive, > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to > handle this? > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > http://www.paypal.com ) > regards > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 04:55:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26945 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:55:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26941 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:55:58 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500KLE458EH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:55:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13710; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:45:01 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:45:01 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: Re: BOOOOOM In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Just when I get out of bed to eat some yoghurt you come and ask me for a > BOM. Oh well, even less sleep then. Hope you're happy ;-) > that's what you get for eating yoghurt! 'we put the hurt in yogurt' rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 06:09:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27421 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:09:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27417 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:09:42 +0200 Received: from l98uppx1.hewitt.com (l98uppx1.hewitt.com [4.17.250.5]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500LNY7K5FU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:09:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from noaccess@localhost) by l98uppx1.hewitt.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20208 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lintng1.hewitt.com(10.20.68.64) by l98upfw32 via smap (V2.1+anti-relay+anti-spam) id xma020190; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:36 -0500 Received: by lintng1.hewitt.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 862568C4.0016AAEC ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:08:59 +0800 From: Anita Yu Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <862568C4.0016AACD.00@lintng1.hewitt.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: HEWITT ASSOCIATES NA X-Authentication-warning: l98upfw32.hewitt.com: noaccess set sender to using -f Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm interested in a few boards as well. Please count me in! I'm currently stationed in Hong Kong, so shipping will be more hefty for me, although I'm quite willing to pay for it. On a side note, I'm thinking that maybe it will be cheaper to produce the boards in Asia, since so many companies have set up shop around here. I'll check around for prices... From: Michael Vanecek on 04/17/2000 10:35 AM Please respond to mike@mjv.com To: cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Client: Subject: Re: a small proposal I'll settle for the pcb and a bag of parts (or a few of them depending on how the price goes) - a friend of mine used to do soldering of the same type of chips and surface-mounts for nokia, so I at least have someone to look over my shoulder... I'm interested in the whole shabang - LART, KSB and Eth... Mike Doug Moreen wrote: > > JD Baker, > > I don't have any "enterprising > dreams"....................................................... > I just need a card or two, and am here in the hinterlands where it's difficult > to get this kind of prototyping done, so I wouldn't be the guy to make a small > fortune (???) on the production. I was just hoping that this proposal could > expidite the cards being made, and to find a way to get the guy's expenses > covered. > > Sure I'd be willing to spend a little on shipping if it could drop the price of > either a finished MotherBoard or a unstuffed motherboard with the parts > necessary to finish it. It will be a tedious job to solder in a bunch of SMD > parts, so I was hoping for a stuffed board. The prices you are quoting are even > better then I thought. Email me when you are ready to ship. > regards > Doug Moreen > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... > > > > >For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > > >production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > > >already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > > >I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > > >percentage > > >points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > > >mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > > >from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. > > > > Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 > > costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks > > lead time). > > > > We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > combo. > > > > Note that shipping to the US will drive up small qty pricing. I have > > absolutely no problem with (and possibly even a preference for) one party > > collecting orders and getting one big NL->US shipment of PCBs. An even more > > viable business model occurs if that party were to buy the 'difficult' > > parts (CPU, Flash, DRAM) and maybe sell partly mounted kits. > > > > If you're going for economy of scale it may be worth going that extra mile. > > > > JDB. > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > -- > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 06:58:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27690 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:58:44 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27686 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:58:44 +0200 Received: from sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU (sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU [149.171.96.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500MER9TRCI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:58:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from alpha400.ee.unsw.edu.au (alpha400.ee.unsw.EDU.AU [149.171.36.48]) by sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.8.8 Kenso-Central-NO-SPAM) with ESMTP id OAA04131; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:47:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (u2189659@localhost) by alpha400.ee.unsw.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07176; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:46:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:46:45 +1000 (EST) From: Ken Chiu Kun Wu Subject: Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:ff To: Lart Mail Server Cc: pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, Help! I've got this error after I loaded both Kernel and Ramdisk and "boot kernel". The kernel image is based on 2.3.35 and the boot loader is blob-1.0.5 Also the ramdisk is "ramdisk-lart-videolink" from LART. I've no idea what's going :( well the only difference can only be my kernel... so i must've done something wrong there.. To compile kernel image successfully I had to select No for "Frame buffer" and virtual console. I also replaced mm-sa1100.c with the one for PLEB (since my board is PLEB). Cheers Ken ---error--- zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. On node 1 totalpages: 00001000 zone(0): 4096 pages. zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. Calibrating delay loop... 194.15 BogoMIPS Memory: 16MB 16MB = 32MB total Memory: 31168KB available (598K code, 400K data, 8K init) Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Page-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes) POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.3 Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 Starting kswapd v1.6 SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled ttyS00 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART ttyS01 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.95 (c) 1998-1999 Rebel.com VFS: Cannot open root device 00:ff Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:ff ------- Cheers Ken ----------------------------------------------- Ken Wu (Electrical/Biomedical Eng. UNSW Sydney) E-Mail: kenwu@ieee.org kenchiu.wu@au.unisys.com Homepage: www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~kckwu Mobile: 0410 668 349 ICQ number: 1074203 ----------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 09:37:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28527 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:37:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28523 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:37:04 +0200 Received: from mrs-2.smartworld.net (mrs-2-fix.smartworld.net [216.70.64.26]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT5004DVH5Q0N@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:37:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from linux.de (IDENT:phil@1Cust157.tnt14.krk1.da.uu.net [63.26.25.157]) by mrs-2.smartworld.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA89115 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 03:31:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:33:28 +0200 From: Philipp Knirsch Subject: FIX: Gerber RS-274D/X viewer in Java To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <38FA3FB8.19BDA2FC@linux.de> Organization: Freelance IT professional MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi folks. Ah well, shit happens. I have packed the wrong version and have found some rather stupid little bugs in the first version i uploaded. So if you've already tried to download it, do it again. The following fixes have been done: - Typos where i used 247 instead of 274 - Start script now calls correct class - Start script uses now jre instead of java for runtime only installations - Included the PNM image output routine (forgot to put it in) - Added the magnification choice - Changed all filenames to 247 as well So give it a shot now. Have fun, Read ya, Phil PS: OK, i am the PS man. Just a little side not: I haven't noticed until it was too late that my Libretto was living in the future. Changed back my date, so emails should now have the correct date. Sorry for that inconvenience. -- _________ _______ _____ ___ _ \__________/ \________/ \______/ \____/ \__/ \/\| Philipp Knirsch Unix, Database, Internet and Java consulting, programming and design. phone: +49 7121 907033 mobil: +49 179 2922425 email: phil@linux.de www: http://www.wizards.de/phil Motd: Never run a changing system... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 10:12:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28828 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:12:42 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28824 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:12:41 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA20946; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:12:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:12:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004170812.KAA20946@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: david@fish.ecks.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: StrongARM reviews ? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:44:15 +0000 (GMT), David Poisson wrote: > I was wondering if there are any sites with reviews about the StrongARM > (what it can and cannot do). Because I heard that the strongARM don't > have a good FPU so you couldn't play games/mp3s on them. Would like to > find benchmarks and such information on them if possible. The StrongARM doesn't have a FPU at all. The StrongARM isn't a desktop CPU, it's an embedded CPU. MP3 files can be played with ~20% CPU time, have a look at the "MPEG audio decoding" thread in the mailing list archive. > Sorry for the repost, I had a lot of trouble trying to setup procmail to > send everything from this mailing-list to a seperate mail file. If anyone > is already doing this, would you mind telling me which rules you are using > ? Cause there doesn't seem to be a unique thing that's always in every > email sent to the list. It's a majordomo list, so there is a "Sender" header. Here's part of my .procmailrc: # LART mailing list :0: * ^Sender:\ owner-lart@lart\.tudelft\.nl $HOME/Mail/lart The "Sender" is unique; it never failed for linux-kernel (300 msg a day) to me. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2785859 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 10:20:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28916 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:20:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28912 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:20:45 +0200 Received: from hitron.co.kr ([203.251.147.1]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT5006OFJ6IVK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:20:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from wksong (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hitron.co.kr (8.9.1a-H1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA26675 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:56:47 +0900 (KST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:07:44 +0900 From: Song Weon-Kook Subject: boot loader? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <003101bfa844$035c8220$670aa8c0@hitron.co.kr> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFA88F.727ABFA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFA88F.727ABFA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkNCg0KUGxlYXNlIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IHRoZSByZWxhdGlvbnMgYmV0d2VlbiBib290IGxvYWRl ciBhbmQgbGludXgga2VybmVsLg0KDQpUaGFua3lvdQ0K ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFA88F.727ABFA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWtz X2NfNTYwMS0xOTg3IiBodHRwLWVxdWl2PUNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZT4NCjxNRVRBIGNvbnRlbnQ9Ik1T SFRNTCA1LjAwLjI2MTQuMzUwMCIgbmFtZT1HRU5FUkFUT1I+DQo8U1RZTEU+PC9TVFlMRT4NCjwv SEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnQ29sb3I9I2ZmZmZmZj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPkhpPC9GT05U PjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPlBsZWFzZSBsZXQg bWUga25vdyB0aGUgcmVsYXRpb25zIGJldHdlZW4gYm9vdCBsb2FkZXIgYW5kIGxpbnV4IA0Ka2Vy bmVsLjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5U aGFua3lvdTwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFA88F.727ABFA0-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 10:39:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29112 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:39:02 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29096; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:38:48 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003101bfa844$035c8220$670aa8c0@hitron.co.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:37:37 +0200 To: Song Weon-Kook From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: boot loader? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 10:07 +0200 17-04-2000, Song Weon-Kook wrote: > Hi Please let me know the relations between boot loader and linux >kernel. Thankyou Erm... the boot loader loads the linux kernel ? JDB [could you be more specific ?] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 10:48:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29190 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:48:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29186 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:48:44 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT5009I2KH7QL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:48:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12h799-000JeY-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:44:43 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:45:43 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Boot Rom? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FACF37.7A196918@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all. I'm new to the list, but couldn't find the answer in the archive, so:- How does the original image get into the Boot ROMs? I've just come off a project where I had to build a jtag flash programmer to bring a SA1100 board up from bare- while I don't have the rights to that code, it shouldn't take too long to build something similar- it just took an Altera 10K30 hung off the printer port of a PC, + piped the FPGA code, followed by the boot code, to LPT1- should be usable by most OSen. A 200K image took about 15 seconds, so not unbearably slow... Also, for the UK LARTers, I may be able to track down some SA1100s, _BUT_ odds on, they're the ones with the nadgered IRDA implementation. Any interest? Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 11:04:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29376 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:04:31 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29369; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:04:20 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FACF37.7A196918@steves-house.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:02:03 +0200 To: Steve Wiseman From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Boot Rom? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 10:45 +0200 17-04-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote: >Hi all. > I'm new to the list, but couldn't find the answer in the archive, >so:- We had a discussion about this last week; check the archives around April 10 for "Programming LART Flash for the first time". Here's the Reader's Digest version: >How does the original image get into the Boot ROMs? I've just come off >a project where I had to build a jtag flash programmer to bring a >SA1100 board up from bare- while I don't have the rights to that code, >it shouldn't take too long to build something similar- it just took an >Altera 10K30 hung off the printer port of a PC, + piped the FPGA code, >followed by the boot code, to LPT1- should be usable by most OSen. A >200K image took about 15 seconds, so not unbearably slow... We want to go JTAG, but even simpler than that: by bit banging over the parallel port. You only need a driver (or some resistors if like Intel you don't care about the 5V->3V3 transition), and some software. Intel has some code for their SA-1110 board which I'm trying to adapt for LART. Granted it's slower than an FPGA data pump would be, but it does the job. And you would only need it for the boot loader. If you still happen to have access to one of those SA-1100 based boards you'd be the ideal JTAG software co-developer 8-) JDB. -- Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 15:17:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30744 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:17:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30740 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:17:12 +0200 Received: from trurl.warmage.com (juror01.lis.net.au [203.35.83.40]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500A21WWI33@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:17:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (jmayo@localhost) by trurl.warmage.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00478; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:14:45 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:14:45 +1000 (EST) From: Joshua Matthew Mayo Subject: Re: Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:ff In-reply-to: X-Sender: jmayo@trurl.warmage.com To: Ken Chiu Kun Wu Cc: Lart Mail Server , pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: trurl.warmage.com: jmayo owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ken Chiu Kun Wu wrote: > Hi all, > Help! I've got this error after I loaded both Kernel and Ramdisk > and "boot kernel". The kernel image is based on 2.3.35 and the boot > loader is blob-1.0.5 Also the ramdisk is "ramdisk-lart-videolink" > from LART. I've no idea what's going :( well the only difference can only > be my kernel... so i must've done something wrong there.. [snip] > ---error--- [snip] > RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize > NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.95 (c) 1998-1999 Rebel.com > VFS: Cannot open root device 00:ff > Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:ff > ------- Ok. I'll admit to not having any direct experience with the SA boards, but I recognise this error. :) I believe the Linux kernel interprets device 00:ff as being for an NFS mounted root filesystem. You don't have any network drivers compiled in, so it has no way to try to mount an NFS directory. You need to set the root filesystem to whatever device contains your ramdisk image, using `rdev` after the kernel is compiled. --- Tell me if you got 20 emails saying the same thing. :) I haven't got any list responses yet, but I have a history of announcing the obvious to the world. :) -Josh Mayo. (Everything with a Grin :) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 15:18:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30757 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:18:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30753 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:18:05 +0200 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500A51WY333@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:18:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hBKo-000Idp-0V for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:13:02 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:47:19 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: UK nadgered SA1100s, was Boot Rom? In-reply-to: <38FACF37.7A196918@steves-house.org.uk> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <38FACF37.7A196918@steves-house.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <38FACF37.7A196918@steves-house.org.uk>, Steve Wiseman writes >Hi all. > I'm new to the list, but couldn't find the answer in the archive, >so:- >How does the original image get into the Boot ROMs? I've just come off >a project where I had to build a jtag flash programmer to bring a >SA1100 board up from bare- while I don't have the rights to that code, >it shouldn't take too long to build something similar- it just took an >Altera 10K30 hung off the printer port of a PC, + piped the FPGA code, >followed by the boot code, to LPT1- should be usable by most OSen. A >200K image took about 15 seconds, so not unbearably slow... > >Also, for the UK LARTers, I may be able to track down some SA1100s, >_BUT_ odds on, they're the ones with the nadgered IRDA implementation. >Any interest? > >Steve Almost certainly depending on price and maybe somewhere between 2 and 5 if they are available. Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 16:35:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31217 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:35:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31213 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:35:27 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600FCD0J1QP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:35:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id JAA13929; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:31:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:31:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: StrongARM reviews ? - some numbers In-reply-to: To: David Poisson Cc: lart Message-id: <200004171431.JAA13929@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > I was wondering if there are any sites with reviews about the StrongARM > (what it can and cannot do). Because I heard that the strongARM don't > have a good FPU so you couldn't play games/mp3s on them. Would like to > find benchmarks and such information on them if possible. I suspect generic benchmarks of the strongarm will be of limited use. You would be best off to simply run your expensive code and see how it works. Our Strongarm based product is a fairly large and complicated system, but I know 90% of the cpu time is in a certain 40 line function. Thats the only one I ever need to benchmark. I have a set of micro benchmarks and macro benchmarks which I hesitate to post. The problem is that there is a gaping disconnect between the micro benchmarks (small, specific tasks) and the macro benchmarks (whole programs). I have a StrongARM 110 machine set up on the internet and will give an account to anyone who wishes it for benchmarking or development. Just e-mail. Its running Debian linux. Ok, enough hesitation, here are the numbers. I guess I have to say that since they correlate so poorly you shouldn't use them for anything. I'll show a Netwinder strongarm 110 266MHz against an Intergraph PentiumPro 200MHz. The SA110 memory subsytem and the SA1100 probably differ wildly, perhaps their internal instruction timing as well. This is VERY rough data to use for LART performance estimation. The tables of numbers following are how many times per second the given task was performed. The two macro benchmarks included are groffing the ls man page and gzipping the LGPL, the rest are micro benchmarks that should be reasonably self explanatory. PentiumPro 200 crypt001 70.424 100 crypt() dummy 3090806.906 an empty function float001 33.899 1000 10 element dot products getuid 583.383 1000 getuid() calls groff001 2.096 groff ls-man gzip001 28.281 gzip LGPL-2.1 memcpy001 69.278 memcpy 1MB, aligned memcpy002 69.053 memcpy 1MB, not aligned memcpy003 306.108 1024 memcpy 1kB, aligned memset001 70.023 memset 1MB strcpy001 41.956 strcpy 1MB, aligned strcpy002 92.666 1024 strcpy 1k, aligned yield 408.633 1000 yield() calls StrongARM 266 crypt001 19.517 100 crypt() dummy 603965.108 an empty function float001 4.477 1000 10 element dot products getuid 1959.180 1000 getuid() calls groff001 0.370 groff ls-man gzip001 9.873 gzip LGPL-2.1 memcpy001 61.561 memcpy 1MB, aligned memcpy002 56.621 memcpy 1MB, not aligned memcpy003 116.567 1024 memcpy 1kB, aligned memset001 115.634 memset 1MB strcpy001 31.923 strcpy 1MB, aligned strcpy002 44.099 1024 strcpy 1k, aligned yield 932.031 1000 yield() calls (The `dummy' test is all the timer function overhead wrapped around the test call. The StrongARM timer functions are quite a bit more complicated than the intel ones. Intel is just grabbing the cycle counter, the SA110 is computing based off of the count and phase of two 266MHz counters that wrap at slightly different counts.) You'll note that the StrongARM beats the PP200 handily for small system calls, is quite close for non-cached memory access and string handling, quite slower for cached memory access and c code (gzip), dreadfully slower for c++ code (groff) and just plain sad for floating point (using a FP emulator). (Bad me: The distinction between C and C++ code speeds is not supported by this set of results. I have other results that support that which I have not published here. I theorize that the number of branches and jumps is greater in C++ and that hurts the strongarm.) (Note to extrapolators: a PIII 400MHz is about twice as fast at everything as a PP200. A little more so on memory.) -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 17:26:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA31523 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:26:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA31519 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:26:04 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600JD72VBBG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:26:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.68.212]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07549 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:49:19 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:53:42 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: porting questions... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002201bfa880$eb1586c0$d44436ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk i was wondering how i'd get all that C float code in quake ported to the StrongARM... is netwinder an FPU emulator - for the strongarm? i have no strongarm here... so i'm not running armlinux... i dunno.. didn't even try patching linux with the ARM patches. #1> i think there is? a provision for an external FPU...? #2> doesn't intel make any co-processor(fpu) for it? - muks ps: i have some issues with the quake port. [pps: henceforth quake means quake 1.. no not that lart won't run q3 ever :)]. #1> since a lot of float code is in quake, i was a concerned about float capabilities.. since there is an FPU emulator, i can let it take care of most of the float code and only optimize in the right places.. ??? #2> video: i port quake to framebuffer, that's all? what resolution/bpp? #3> input handling: where/how do i get my input? keyboard? moose? joisteek? #4> sound: guess i'll put in null sound driver for now till oss. #5> net: what are the network interface capabilites? can you put the lart on an TCP/IP network yet? or should i put in the null driver? #6> where am i (sorry, read that "where are you") gonna put that quake P-A-K file on the lart? - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 17:32:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA31573 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:32:41 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA31569 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:32:40 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FT60014W36F91@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:32:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.87] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE22D510238; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:30:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:32:05 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the listserv. Any way to fix that? Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) I figure maybe lart.org if it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) Mike -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: a small proposal Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:41:09 EDT From: LeoSusanto@aol.com To: mike@mjv.com let me in too. but where is your location? i am at southern CA leo In a message dated 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mike@mjv.com writes: << Subj: Re: a small proposal Date: 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mike@mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Put me down as a participant. Quantity will depend on price... Mike Doug Moreen wrote: > > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few percentage > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a 30% > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from the > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to get. > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and cost > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message archive, > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to > handle this? > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > http://www.paypal.com ) > regards > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (rly-yg01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.1]) by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:20 2000 Received: from thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (thorgal.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.91]) by rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:00 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26884 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26880 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:16 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT500KJO3XEEH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.18] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB504203DE; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:47:44 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:49:19 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FA7BAF.DD1E8845@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 17:49:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA31660 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:49:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA31656 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:49:52 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600KHA3Z2EK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:49:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.70]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:52:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:46:28 -0600 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] To: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've thought about it and the job needs to be done, so I guess I'm your chump. regards Doug Moreen ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Vanecek To: Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:32 AM Subject: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] > I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the > listserv. Any way to fix that? > > Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together > to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's > club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send > funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently > volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if > he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) I figure maybe lart.org if > it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can > be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) > > Mike > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: a small proposal > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:41:09 EDT > From: LeoSusanto@aol.com > To: mike@mjv.com > > let me in too. but where is your location? i am at southern CA > > leo > In a message dated 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mike@mjv.com > writes: > > << Subj: Re: a small proposal > Date: 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: mike@mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) > Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl > To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl > > Put me down as a participant. Quantity will depend on price... > > Mike > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle > the > > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards > made > up. > > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > percentage > > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless > I'm > > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single > card > > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a > 30% > > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from > the > > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to > get. > > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and > cost > > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message > archive, > > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort > of org > to > > handle this? > > > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > > http://www.paypal.com ) > > regards > > Doug Moreen > > dogman@bitterroot.net > > AllBoot.Com > > http://www.allboot.com > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (rly-yg01.mail.aol.com > [172.18.147.1]) > by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:20 > 2000 > Received: from thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (thorgal.et.tudelft.nl > [130.161.40.91]) by rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr > 2000 > 23:07:00 -0400 > Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26884 > for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:17 +0200 > Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) > by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26880 > for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:16 +0200 > Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) > by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) > with ESMTP id <0FT500KJO3XEEH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for > lart@lart.tudelft.nl; > Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) > Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.18] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB504203DE; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:47:44 -0500 > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:49:19 -0500 > From: Michael Vanecek > Subject: Re: a small proposal > To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Message-id: <38FA7BAF.DD1E8845@mjv.com> > MIME-version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > X-Accept-Language: en > References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> > <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> > Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Precedence: bulk > > >> > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 17:55:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA31690 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:55:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA31686 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:55:31 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600L4R48HJ0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:55:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.45] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A2F917CA0238; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:51:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:52:37 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: StrongARM reviews ? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB3345.F6EE3ACF@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Any chance of porting SDL over to StrongARM? They already have Mac and PC (Linux, Win32 and I think BeOS) ports. It'd be cool to have a little handheld Mealstrom player... :) > >i am interested in doing that quake port. but i need to know about > >programming for the display and sound, apart from the input unit. > >how much work has been done here? what kind of kitchen sink drivers > >are available? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:02:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31746 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:02:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31742 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:02:52 +0200 Received: from smtpe.casema.net (smtpe.casema.net [195.96.96.172]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT600L7L4KRUE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:02:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 24141 invoked from network); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:02:10 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gatekeeper2.slim) (212.64.37.79) by smtpe.casema.net with SMTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:02:10 +0000 Received: from inter.nl.net (paragon.slim [192.168.100.26]) by gatekeeper2.slim (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04828; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:01:28 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:09:12 +0200 From: Jurgen Kramer Subject: Re: a small proposal To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB3728.C8721235@inter.nl.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > >combo. Where can we sign up for one board or more? Greetings, Jurgen -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:27:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31907 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31903 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:29 +0200 Received: from web3205.mail.yahoo.com (web3205.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.202.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT600M5A5PRVT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [216.252.186.226] by web3205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:23:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ghazan Haider Subject: Whats so special about LART? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the excitement about lart and i dont know why. Ive been aiming to produce the absolutely cheapest machines with LCD screens that can run win95 and linux.... LART doesnt even seem x86 compatible (is it?). OR maybe its very cheap to produce... is it cheaper than iopener and with better benchmarks??? Can it run DOOM? :) And if its not x86 compatible what compatible is it beside a linux kernel? -Ghazan Haider __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:27:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31913 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31909 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:52 +0200 Received: from dgf.uchile.cl (dgf.uchile.cl [146.83.8.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600M5Y5Q7VT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:27:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (castellatus [146.83.8.190]) by dgf.uchile.cl (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA02948 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:11:51 -0400 (CST) Received: from dgf.uchile.cl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29970 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:11:36 -0400 (CST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:11:36 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Subject: Re: a small proposal To: LART Message-id: <38FB37B8.8ABC8BCE@dgf.uchile.cl> Organization: Universidad de Chile MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... > > Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 > costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks > lead time). > > We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > combo. > > Note that shipping to the US will drive up small qty pricing. I have > absolutely no problem with (and possibly even a preference for) one party > collecting orders and getting one big NL->US shipment of PCBs. An even more > viable business model occurs if that party were to buy the 'difficult' > parts (CPU, Flash, DRAM) and maybe sell partly mounted kits. > > If you're going for economy of scale it may be worth going that extra mile. > > JDB. Now this is surprising. We are designing here (Chile) a SBC very similar to the LART (though it uses an Hitachi SuperH and has other components integrated in the main board). The cost for a 10cm x 10cm PCB is around US$20 in small quantities (4, indeed). The quality of the PCBs is excellent (they use CNC to build them). Gee... I guess living in an undeveloped country has some benefits... Cheers! -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik (pbleyer@dgf.uchile.cl) || "Todo lo que nace de mi smail: Moneda 973, of 336, Santiago || es la transformacion Santiago de Chile || de mi mismo"- J. Rulfo Chile -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:28:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31938 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:28:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31934 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:28:47 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600M4R5RXZ1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:28:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.25] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB4932AA0238; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:26:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:28:08 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] To: Doug Moreen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Well, looks like the lart domains are taken (.com, .net & .org). Ideas? I think lartcooperative.com may be a little wordy. :) Additionally, we'll probably want to form a legal body with a rep for dealing with the parts distributors and manufacturers. And then there's the banking and keeping track of funds. Logistics out the yinyang. But if we want to get good prices for use little geeks, I don't see any other way. Why spend days calling parts houses trying to track down this and that only to get raped because we're only buying a couple rather than bulk? I've always dreamed of being able to tinker with this stuff and maybe produce something neat like good ol' Woz did - having reliable and access to the componets at a fair price will really free up time and worry for other portions of the project like software, case design, etc... I know a few of the list members are doing this already (I'm still hoping to snag one of those pcb's from Mr. Fountain) - we could all team up and do it collectively... Anyone have any experience in putting together a cooperative? Doug Moreen wrote: > > I've thought about it and the job needs to be done, so I guess I'm your > chump. > regards > Doug Moreen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Vanecek > To: > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:32 AM > Subject: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] > > > I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the > > listserv. Any way to fix that? > > > > Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together > > to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's > > club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send > > funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently > > volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if > > he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) I figure maybe lart.org if > > it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can > > be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) > > > > Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:55:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA32102 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:55:28 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA32062; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:55:11 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FB37B8.8ABC8BCE@dgf.uchile.cl> References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:53:09 +0200 To: Pablo Bleyer Kocik From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: LART Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:11 +0200 17-04-2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote: >> We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra >> blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet >> combo. > > Now this is surprising. We are designing here (Chile) a SBC very >similar to the LART (though it uses an Hitachi SuperH and has other >components integrated in the main board). The cost for a 10cm x 10cm PCB >is around US$20 in small quantities (4, indeed). The quality of the PCBs >is excellent (they use CNC to build them). Are those six-layer PCBs with 0.15mm (six mil) trace width/clearance and 0.3 mm (12 mil) smallest hole diameter ? If yes then I want the address of your PCB fab house :) JDB. -- "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 18:59:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA32127 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:59:59 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA32123 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:59:59 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16923; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:59:55 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004171659.SAA16923@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: LAR submission 2000041704 To: msim@web.fairfax.com.au Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:59:55 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Michael, [cc-ed to the LART list] > $lar[2000041704] = array( > 'name' => "Michael Sim", > 'mail' => "msim@web.fairfax.com.au", > 'type' => "idea", > 'stat' => "concept", > 'desc' => "Lart-IDE", > 'text' => "figuring out some way to rig a IDE controller to the > LART, i don't know if it's much effort but still, > "wouldn't it be nice". incidentally im looking at > building a lart, my girlfriend is gonna kill me if it costs > too much :|, but damn it'd be worth dying for!", > 'link' => array(), > 'clog' => array() > ); (So this is how these entries are stored. Isn't that worth a patent, like Amazon's one-click technology? ;) You might be interested to know that this has been a major issue since the first ideas of a LART bubbled up in JDB's head. The kitchen sink board (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/ksb/ ) is currently being tested. It has an IDE interface, as well audio, video, keyboard and mouse connectors. So you see, currently there's no need to die for any part of the LART :) Other people on the mailinglist may also want to check out the ideas in the LART Application Repository, since most of them only need some good developers (yes, and that hardware... patience please). I could also post the submissions to the mailinglist - think of it as spoonfeeding 8) -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:10:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32246 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:10:21 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32241; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:10:19 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FB3728.C8721235@inter.nl.net> References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:59:54 +0200 To: Jurgen Kramer From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:09 +0200 17-04-2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: >> >> >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra >> >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet >> >combo. > >Where can we sign up for one board or more? Right here on the list. I'll post an announce once we get that far; expect it to happen in 4-5 weeks. I suggest you start chasing after parts by then. Don't kid yourself: getting the important bits will easily take you longer than that. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:10:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32259 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:10:27 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32247; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:10:21 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002201bfa880$eb1586c0$d44436ca@muks> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:09:16 +0200 To: Mukund Iyer From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: porting questions... Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 17:23 +0200 17-04-2000, Mukund Iyer wrote: >i was wondering how i'd get all that C float code in >quake ported to the StrongARM... is netwinder an FPU >emulator - for the strongarm? >i have no strongarm here... so i'm not running armlinux... >i dunno.. didn't even try patching linux with the ARM >patches. > >#1> i think there is? a provision for an external FPU...? In general ARM yes, on the SA-1 archtecture no. >#2> doesn't intel make any co-processor(fpu) for it? No. If you're a true hardware diehard you can hang an FPGA on the SA bus and program it as a FPU, but I would suggest against that. We're talking many man-years if you go that route. >#1> since a lot of float code is in quake, i was a concerned >about float capabilities.. since there is an FPU emulator, >i can let it take care of most of the float code and only >optimize in the right places.. ??? That's one way of going about it. You may also check how hard it is to rewrite the FP code to use fixed point. The nice thing is that you can test that on a regular i386 machine. >#2> video: i port quake to framebuffer, that's all? what resolution/bpp? Start with 320x240 @ 8/16bpp ; it's easy to find good LCDs in that range. >#3> input handling: where/how do i get my input? keyboard? moose? joisteek? The KSB has PS/2 connections; you could use those. I guess this is not your main problem tho. >#4> sound: guess i'll put in null sound driver for now till oss. OK; you can also just send data to /dev/dsp. >#5> net: what are the network interface capabilites? can you put >the lart on an TCP/IP network yet? or should i put in the null driver? It runs Linux, so it can have TCP. >#6> where am i (sorry, read that "where are you") gonna put that >quake P-A-K file on the lart? Hard disk or flash. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:23:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32351 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:23:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32347 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:23:42 +0200 Received: from oahu.axysdesign.com ([198.172.73.114]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60016Q8BGU1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:23:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from axysdesign.com (easter.axysdesign.com [192.168.3.17]) by oahu.axysdesign.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB17B482; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:16:59 -0700 From: Bill Sidhipong Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? To: Ghazan Haider Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB470B.4EE7B8BF@axysdesign.com> Organization: AXYS Design, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15pre14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ghazan Haider wrote: > > Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the > excitement about lart and i dont know why. Ive been > aiming to produce the absolutely cheapest machines > with LCD screens that can run win95 and linux.... Okay, keep this perspective in mind for later. > LART doesnt even seem x86 compatible (is it?). No, it is based on ARM processor. > OR maybe its very cheap to produce... Depends on the quantity. > is it cheaper than iopener and with better benchmarks 1) The I-Opener's cost to you is nowhere near the cost you could hope to build it yourself. It has been estimated that each unit costs Netpliance anywhere from $300-$500 to build in quantity of 30,000 units. 2) The I-Opener may be cheaper for you *now*, but that doesn't mean it'll always be cheap forever. Netpliance will go back to $199 pricing soon, and you will also be required to agree to ToS. Did this stop me from buying a few I-Openers? No :) > And if its not x86 compatible what compatible is it > beside a linux kernel? From that perspective, you do not want the LART, nor can you benefit from it if one were to materialize on your front door ... The LART as it appears has many benefits that will be apparent once you look at it from another angle. Hints: cooperation, open design, complete feature set, reasonably powerful CPU, plenty of memory, small, very low power consumption. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:28:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32413 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:28:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32409 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:28:19 +0200 Received: from wcug.wwu.edu (sloth.wcug.wwu.edu [140.160.164.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT6001FV8J5IL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:28:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 26478 invoked by uid 1002); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:26:42 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Heilman Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? In-reply-to: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: jamie@sloth To: Ghazan Haider Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Jamie Heilman Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ghazan Haider wrote: >Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the excitement about lart and >i dont know why. There are a lot of reasons, I'll tell you one of them, then let you go research the rest. 1W power consumption. Think about that. That fancy-pants graphics card in your PC you're using probalby eats about 50W all by itself. Anyone want to hazzard a guess as to how long you could keep a LART alive on a 1400VA UPS in the event of a power failure? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:38:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32552 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:38:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32548 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:38:46 +0200 Received: from server1.siscom.net (server1.siscom.net [209.251.2.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT6001I990KME@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:38:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 337 invoked from network); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:34:57 +0000 Received: from ppp9.c5300-1.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) ([209.251.9.9]) (envelope-sender ) by server1.siscom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:34:57 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:33:37 -0700 From: Brian Kraack Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] To: Michael Vanecek Cc: Doug Moreen , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: bkraack@siscom.net Message-id: <38FB7520.DFCBC83@siscom.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have a buddy who is a salesman at a xylynx distributor in Dayton, OH (US). So if this something happens here, maybe I can help out somehow. /Brian Michael Vanecek wrote: > Well, looks like the lart domains are taken (.com, .net & .org). Ideas? > I think lartcooperative.com may be a little wordy. :) Additionally, > we'll probably want to form a legal body with a rep for dealing with the > parts distributors and manufacturers. And then there's the banking and > keeping track of funds. Logistics out the yinyang. But if we want to get > good prices for use little geeks, I don't see any other way. Why spend > days calling parts houses trying to track down this and that only to get > raped because we're only buying a couple rather than bulk? I've always > dreamed of being able to tinker with this stuff and maybe produce > something neat like good ol' Woz did - having reliable and access to the > componets at a fair price will really free up time and worry for other > portions of the project like software, case design, etc... I know a few > of the list members are doing this already (I'm still hoping to snag one > of those pcb's from Mr. Fountain) - we could all team up and do it > collectively... Anyone have any experience in putting together a > cooperative? > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > > I've thought about it and the job needs to be done, so I guess I'm your > > chump. > > regards > > Doug Moreen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Michael Vanecek > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:32 AM > > Subject: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] > > > > > I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the > > > listserv. Any way to fix that? > > > > > > Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together > > > to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's > > > club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send > > > funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently > > > volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if > > > he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) I figure maybe lart.org if > > > it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can > > > be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) > > > > > > Mike > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:42:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32604 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:42:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32600 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:42:35 +0200 Received: from smtpe.casema.net (smtpe.casema.net [195.96.96.172]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT60021T96YUM@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:42:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 14766 invoked from network); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:40:11 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gatekeeper2.slim) (212.64.37.79) by smtpe.casema.net with SMTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:40:11 +0000 Received: from inter.nl.net (paragon.slim [192.168.100.26]) by gatekeeper2.slim (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04853; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:39:29 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:47:13 +0200 From: Jurgen Kramer Subject: Re: a small proposal To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB4E21.A4B8F413@inter.nl.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > >Right here on the list. I'll post an announce once we get that far; expect > >it to happen in 4-5 weeks. > > >I suggest you start chasing after parts by then. Don't kid yourself: > >getting the important bits will easily take you longer than that. So no complete boards? Although I like to play with hardware in this case I'd rather start fiddling with Linux itself... Jurgen -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 19:45:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32627 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:45:43 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32623 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:45:42 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id TAA25231; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:45:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:45:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004171745.TAA25231@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: jamie@wcug.wwu.edu Cc: ghazanhaider@yahoo.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:26:42 -0700 (PDT), Jamie Heilman wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ghazan Haider wrote: >>Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the excitement about lart and >>i dont know why. > > There are a lot of reasons, I'll tell you one of them, then let you go > research the rest. 1W power consumption. Think about that. That > fancy-pants graphics card in your PC you're using probalby eats about 50W > all by itself. Anyone want to hazzard a guess as to how long you could > keep a LART alive on a 1400VA UPS in the event of a power failure? I can do, bu I'll have to assume you meant 1400 VAh: A LART in idle mode draws 42mA at 9V, so: 1400VAh / ( 9V * 42 mA ) = 3703.7 hours = 154.3 days The UPS doesn't have an efficiency of 100 percent, and the LART will not allways be idle, so we cut that figure in half, which still leaves us with 77 days computing pleasure ;-) FYI: an idle LART will run about 40 hours on a single 4.5V battery. Erik -- "people are still using Win98? Wow... VMS i could understand, but WinXX - that's just so passe..." -- Paul Jakma on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:04:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32748 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:04:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA32744 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:04:53 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60032LA83NV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:04:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id NAA31004; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:01:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:01:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? In-reply-to: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> To: Ghazan Haider Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004171801.NAA31004@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the > excitement about lart and i dont know why. Ive been > aiming to produce the absolutely cheapest machines > with LCD screens that can run win95 and linux.... LART > doesnt even seem x86 compatible (is it?). OR maybe its > very cheap to produce... is it cheaper than iopener > and with better benchmarks??? Can it run DOOM? :) > And if its not x86 compatible what compatible is it > beside a linux kernel? `Special' is a subjective term. I'll tell you why I think it is special. When producing appliance type hardware in less than mass volume the design cost is significant. Add in the risk that the design will need an unknown debugging period and now you have an expensive platform that may or may not be ready in a timely manner. LART changes the risk and design expense. If many people successfully build LARTs and they work reliably then the design is validated and it becomes a known good baseline for a designer to customize into a finished device. The OSS community as shown that many people contributing and sharing their experience can produce top quality work. It takes a few seeds to start the process. LART? Now for your application, I suspect you will not like ARM processors. They are not x86s. They can play DOOM. They will not run win9x. I think there is a WinCE kit for them if that is your cup of tea. They are close to the i-opener for raw performance, depends what you are doing. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:09:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00045 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:09:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00041 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:09:08 +0200 Received: from libertyweb.liberty.ca ([207.236.111.122]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6003EKAF699@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:09:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from laptop - 207.236.111.121 by libertyweb.liberty.ca with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:16:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:04:42 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002801bfa897$781f2ba0$981410ac@home.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm interested, but is there anyone interested in buy assembled boards ? I'm working on getting a friend of the family to built some for me, but he won't do it unless I get can buy a couple of hundreds... I'm getting the bill of material and I'll be shopping soon, I was wondering if someone had done this before and is willing to help me ....? That would seed up the process... Hugues Belanger > 905.973.9400 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jurgen Kramer > To: J.D. Bakker > Cc: > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 12:09 PM > Subject: Re: a small proposal > > > > > > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell > extra > > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > > >combo. > > > > Where can we sign up for one board or more? > > > > Greetings, > > > > Jurgen > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:15:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00155 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:15:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00151 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:15:45 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6003D6AQ7IY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:15:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.70]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:18:11 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:14:39 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] In-reply-to: <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: Brian Kraack , Jurgen Kramer , David Poisson , Anita Yu Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041712122201.11476@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Michael and other people in the US (and Canada) who want inexpensive LART parts; so far I count eight people who are interested Co-ops? Well, not since the wild and wooly days of the late sixtys and early seventys, which I mostly missed due to the US Army and a fairly long stint overseas as a contract engineer. The big trick is to get it set-up as a non-profit, though non-profit status, isn't the easiest thing for an organization to achieve. Even if the organization isn't officially a non-profit, the goals of the organization are not to make a profit anyway, so we shouldn't get hit with taxes for that reason. The realities off getting parts in general, when you are just ordering a few parts means that you are paying the highest possible prices. For example go to the electronics store, Radio Shack, that has displaced most of the small electronics retailers in the US. The prices there are many times the prices, that manufactures pay for the same parts. This is a bit too high of prices for most of us to pay. So maybe a longer term goal should be to not limit us to just the LART components, though this would be an excellent starting point. There is a LARGE pent-up demand for the LART parts, so this org would get a great jump start right away. Other suggestions for this org's name: lart_us.org lartpart.org co_part.org other names are welcome, so do suggest any ideas for domain names that you have. We would also need; 1.) a web-site to handle the parts database, request for new entries into the database, orders, membership sign-up. 2.) a organization charter, (this I have been involved in. A quick answer is to take a look at similar organizations charters and steal text freely) 3.)some kind of banking arraignment 4.)officers, director, treasurer, ect..... 5.)some central warehousing/shipping point (this could be just about anywhere in the US with as easy as parcel shipping is these days.) 6.)some other geeks to help with the schlepping of Gerber files etc back and forth to the board shops. (these people need to be in a major metro area, which I'm not, to get access to high quality, cheap manufacturing) 7.)geeks that are willing to test finished boards for functionality, so we can be sure the manufactures making a quality part, before committing to a large order. additions to the list are welcome. It does seem like the folks in NL are going to be ready with some boards in a few week, that will be bare boards for ~$60.00. How does this sound to everybody here? Or should we also see if there is a FAB shop that can do the board stuffing at a reasonable price. regards Doug Moreen On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, you wrote: > Well, looks like the lart domains are taken (.com, .net & .org). Ideas? > I think lartcooperative.com may be a little wordy. :) Additionally, > we'll probably want to form a legal body with a rep for dealing with the > parts distributors and manufacturers. And then there's the banking and > keeping track of funds. Logistics out the yinyang. But if we want to get > good prices for use little geeks, I don't see any other way. Why spend > days calling parts houses trying to track down this and that only to get > raped because we're only buying a couple rather than bulk? I've always > dreamed of being able to tinker with this stuff and maybe produce > something neat like good ol' Woz did - having reliable and access to the > componets at a fair price will really free up time and worry for other > portions of the project like software, case design, etc... I know a few > of the list members are doing this already (I'm still hoping to snag one > of those pcb's from Mr. Fountain) - we could all team up and do it > collectively... Anyone have any experience in putting together a > cooperative? > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > > I've thought about it and the job needs to be done, so I guess I'm your > > chump. > > regards > > Doug Moreen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Michael Vanecek > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:32 AM > > Subject: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] > > > > > I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the > > > listserv. Any way to fix that? > > > > > > Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together > > > to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's > > > club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send > > > funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently > > > volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if > > > he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) I figure maybe lart.org if > > > it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can > > > be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) > > > > > > Mike -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:25:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00225 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:25:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00220 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:25:31 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60043CB6HGD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:25:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.70]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:28:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:19:59 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <002801bfa897$781f2ba0$981410ac@home.net> To: Hugues Belanger Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041712221103.11476@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <002801bfa897$781f2ba0$981410ac@home.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Board buyers, add your name to this list and return it to me Brian Kraack , Jurgen Kramer , David Poisson , Anita Yu , James , Earl Baugh,, Michael Vanecek Hugues Belanger Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:25:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00229 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:25:37 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00214 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:24:41 +0200 Received: from idealab.com (mx2.idealab.com [206.132.100.54]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT60041HB50GD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:24:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 3120 invoked by alias); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:20:35 +0000 Received: (qmail 3087 invoked from network); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:20:34 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Clifford) (10.3.40.142) by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:20:34 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:18:49 -0700 From: "Joel R. Kehle" Subject: RE: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? In-reply-to: <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I only got commitments for about 10 boards which isn't the volume I was hoping for. Sorry 'bout that. :-( --Joel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:30:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00289 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:30:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00284 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:30:05 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600482BE2GD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:30:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.134]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA05879 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:53:21 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:43 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001b01bfa89a$a0baf460$861e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >At 18:09 +0200 17-04-2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: >>> >>> >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra >>> >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet >>> >combo. >> >>Where can we sign up for one board or more? > >Right here on the list. I'll post an announce once we get that far; expect >it to happen in 4-5 weeks. > >I suggest you start chasing after parts by then. Don't kid yourself: >getting the important bits will easily take you longer than that. > guess we could go IPO after that :) btw, there are a lot of questions being asked about co-ordination in forming teams to build the lart... this is good. i can't talk about mass production for the community (non-developers).. the lart is probably still in it's early stages.. one thing is simple.. if we all have a single production source, it becomes cheaper to produce the lart. i don't think i'll be able to afford one in any case. $60 for the KSB PCB did you say? that's over 2500 bucks in indian rupees. a lot of money. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 20:34:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00320 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:34:59 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00316 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:34:58 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA25484; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:34:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:34:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004171834.UAA25484@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: More KSB pictures available Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just made two pictures of a KSB+LART combo. They're a bit low quality because I used an SGI O2 video camera (couldn't find a Sony Mavica). You can find them in l'Art gallery. Erik -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 21:04:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00556 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:04:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00552 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:04:41 +0200 Received: from mail.chilesat.net (mail2.chilesat.net [200.31.43.52]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6004KZCZQKQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:04:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from embedded.cl (200.31.59.202) by mail.chilesat.net (NPlex 4.0.068) id 38F792860000D9FA for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:51:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:09:46 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Subject: Re: a small proposal To: LART Message-id: <38FB617A.E4EB4F0@embedded.cl> Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > Are those six-layer PCBs with 0.15mm (six mil) trace width/clearance and > 0.3 mm (12 mil) smallest hole diameter ? If yes then I want the address of > your PCB fab house :) > > JDB. > Nope, three layers only. But the track width and interspacing is very much the same (actually, the same -- don't know how much spacing there is, for example, between the StrongARM pins but I think it has to be near the same as the SH TQFP pins -- 0.1mm pin width and 0.5mm interspacing, so our tracks are 0.15mm width). When I went to quote the PCB I was almost convinced that we were going to end buying the boards in the USA -- I thought, what the hell, let's try it here. When the lady that attended me told me the price for 4 the prototype boards ($37.500 chilean pesos, like 80 US dollars), I asked her if that was the price of _one_ board because I was really surprised. But I was wrong, the price was really for the 4 boards. She showed me a sample of their work and, as I told you, the quality was excellent. As I looked amazed, she told me that, yes, buying them outside the country was much more expensive. They bought a CNC for them last year (they build UPSs) and this year they started outsourcing. By the way, they have the PCBs ready in three days. If someone from this list lives in Chile (grrr... I really doubt that ;^/ ), the name of the company is "Buron & Buron", they have an entry in the yellow pages. They have a web page (http://www.buron.cl) and an email address, but they don't seem to check it often (I had to go personally there to quote my board because they didn't answer the email I sent them). We will be ordering the parts for our SBC in the following weeks and, as soon as all of them arrive, we will order the board construction in the next days. So when our prototype SBCs are ready, I'll tell you if the "cheap stuff was worth it" ;^) Peace! -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik | pbleyer |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend air; @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 21:25:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00724 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:25:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00720 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:25:20 +0200 Received: from smtprch1.nortel.com (smtprch1.nortelnetworks.com [192.135.215.14]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6006CQDY6BA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:25:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zcard015.ca.nortel.com (actually zcard015) by smtprch1.nortel.com; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:11:04 -0500 Received: from zcard00e.ca.nortel.com ([47.130.0.90]) by zcard015.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id H6NPJSNY; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:11:00 -0400 Received: from americasm10.nt.com (wcars0mj.ca.nortel.com [47.209.18.90]) by zcard00e.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 1YXBG30S; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:10:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:10:57 -0400 From: Behan Webster Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, Brian Kraack , Jurgen Kramer , David Poisson , Anita Yu , Malcolm Latorre , Richard Cook , Grant Likely Message-id: <38FB61C1.69225B3@americasm10.nt.com> Organization: Nortel Networks MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> <00041712122201.11476@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > > Michael and other people in the US (and Canada) who want inexpensive LART parts; > so far I count eight people who are interested Add four more people (in Canada) to that list. Myself and 3 of my friends would be insterested in a few boards. We have several applications that the lart would be good for (embedded wall terminal, whole house stereo server, automatic kiln control, remote control of digital test equipment, and of course the ubiquitous mp3 player). 8) I can imagine the 4 of us together being interested in 6-12 LART+KSB+Ethernet boards (or more if the price is right). This is a fabulous project. Keep up the great work! Behan Webster -- Behan Webster (613) 763-2381 home: mailto:behanw@pobox.com mailto:behanw@nortelnetworks.com http://www.pobox.com/~behanw/ My opinions, not Nortel's. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 21:35:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00800 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:35:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00796 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:35:15 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6005R5EEPVB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:35:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6 [206.191.0.248]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09931 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01047 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:22:29 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FB6474.FC18CA5C@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Jim Studt wrote: > LART changes the risk and design expense. I would *strongly* second this !!! > If many people successfully > build LARTs and they work reliably then the design is validated and it > > becomes a known good baseline for a designer to customize into a > finished device. > > The OSS community as shown that many people contributing and sharing > their experience can produce top quality work. It takes a few seeds > to start the process. LART? I would also add that another of Jim's seeds here is the need for a common suite of tools with which to exchange ideas, manage concept development and realize hardware and software. In fact, I am simply reiterating a point made earlier on this list by Adam Wiggins (on Fri 15 Apr 2000 11:20:38 +1000 EST) when he suggested people interested in developing Open Source hardware like LART or PLEB also consider contributing to tools development like the gEDA project (http://www.geda.seul.org/). I would only add one observation to this, which is that unlike Open Source Software where the effective costs of reproduction and distribution approaches zero - Open Source Hardware development has very real reproduction & distribution costs which will never approach zero... Terry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 21:54:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00957 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:54:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00953 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:54:45 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6007C4FB7K1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:54:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.33] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB0A5E9A0218; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:50:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:52:04 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Co-Op stuff [was Re: I think this was meant to go here] To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB6B64.3E593E23@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> <00041712122201.11476@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'd be willing to fund a year on a basic account with http://he.net/ I have four accounts with them and no complaints - they're Linux based, have php3 and mysql capabilities and everything a normal Linux account would have. I suspect someone else may have a cheaper solution - if so pipe up, if not let me know and we'll get to the domain name choosing part of this endeavor... > 1.) a web-site to handle the parts database, request for new > entries into the database, orders, membership sign-up. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 21:55:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00972 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:55:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00968 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:55:16 +0200 Received: from ethereal (resnet-21-203.dorm.utexas.edu [129.116.21.203]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60078WFC3WF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:55:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nolan by ethereal with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12hHOp-0007kk-00 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:41:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:41:35 -0500 From: Nolan Darilek Subject: More newbie questions To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've begun toying with the software aspects of the MP3 player which I'd like to build. I downloaded the ramdisk image and mounted it on a loopback device. In order to support my design however, I'll need to add some additional functionality to the vanilla ramdisk. I'll need inetd, an FTP server (A while back someone recommended just using TFTP, but I may just write one with very basic functionality), ncurses and an MP3 player. It looks like there are 2 megs remaining, but I may need to double the ramdisk size. Is the ramdisk added to the system's flash, or is it loaded into the onboard 32 megs of RAM? Or both? Or neither? :) I'm a bit confused about what purpose the flash and onboard RAM serves in an embedded device. If I want to cross compile libraries and code, what do I need to do? Are there Debian packages of ARM cross compilers, or should I just download gcc and roll my own? How difficult is it to keep the cross compilers in separate environments, so that ARM versions of my favorite libraries aren't intermingled with my real libraries? Is it somehow possible to test ramdisk images before sending them to the board? Would something like http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net be useful here? And this is something else which, though it is newbie-ish, has confused me for quite some time. :) Once the boards are built and connected, how and where can cases be purchased? Since embedded designs differ radically, how exactly can one design a case which holds all of the components and provides a convenient interface to the software? Or are there pre-made designs which work well? Thanks. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:01:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01009 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:01:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01005 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:01:07 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6007JBFLTMF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:01:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 26YG1CS2; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:51:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:58:38 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB6CEE.359E9DF0@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: <002801bfa897$781f2ba0$981410ac@home.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hugues Belanger wrote: > > I'm interested, but is there anyone interested in buy assembled boards ? > > I'm working on getting a friend of the family to built some for me, but he > won't do it unless I get can buy a couple of hundreds... > > I'm getting the bill of material and I'll be shopping soon, I was wondering > if someone had done this before and is willing to help me ....? That would > seed up the process... I'd prefer to buy assembled boards myself. I was an electronics technologist in a previous life but have been a SW guy for the last 10 years or so. Last time I was soldering parts they still had pins coming out the other side of the board (remember SIPs and DIPs ladies and gentlemen?). I doubt I'd have much luck trying to do SMC. I know this has been asked but I'm looking for clarification. What is the price estimate for FULLY ASSEMBLED LART and KSB boards? I've seen many numbers fly around for the last few days but I suspect they were for bare boards only. This question is within the context of being able to get enough people interested to qualify for a bulk price. Varek (in the Victoria, BC area since someone was asking) varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:11:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01080 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01076 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:09 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60082OG2JUT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 26YG1C5B; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:01:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:08:40 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: More KSB pictures available Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB6F48.156F6706@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: <200004171834.UAA25484@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just made two pictures of a KSB+LART combo. They're a bit low quality > because I used an SGI O2 video camera (couldn't find a Sony Mavica). You > can find them in l'Art gallery. > > Erik > Erik, Thank you for those pictures. They are quite helpful. I wonder (hat in hand) if you could do me a favour sometime... Could you measure the thickness of that combo? I mean putting someting flat on the the highest component on the top board and then measure to the bench. I'm trying to work out preliminary (read napkin sketch) case concepts and component (battery?) placement for a product idea. Knowing the thickness of the LART/KSB combo would help me a lot. I know you're a busy guy and are probably getting requests all the time. If it's too much trouble don't worry about it but I'd bet I'm not the only one that would be interested. Thank you very much Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:11:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01095 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01091 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:42 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT6007KPG3GWF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:11:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.73]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:14:10 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:53:42 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are the people who have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. please correct this list if incorrect. add your name if missing, remove in not interested. Also, let me know what your preferences are for 1.) finished vs. bare boards. 2.) quantity wanted 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? so far we have 27 boards requested It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. name and email quantity stuffed? Brian Kraack , 1 ? Jurgen Kramer , 1 ? David Poisson , 1 ? Anita Yu , 3 ? James , 1 ? Earl Baugh,, 5 ? Michael Vanecek 1 no Christopher Seline 1 ? Rob Leslie 1 ? Donald Vukovic 1 yes Chris Curtis 1 ? Behan Webster 6 ? Adam Haberlach 1 ? Nick Gully 1 ? Simon Labrecque Agarwal 1 ? Michael Pollina Ephibian 1 yes regards Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:20:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01152 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:20:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01148 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:20:03 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT60094CGHC7D@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:20:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.125]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA06014; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:43:05 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:47:20 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: Co-Op stuff [was Re: I think this was meant to go here] To: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <024d01bfa8a9$fa6c3c80$861e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Michael wrote: >I'd be willing to fund a year on a basic account with http://he.net/ I >have four accounts with them and no complaints - they're Linux based, >have php3 and mysql capabilities and everything a normal Linux account >would have. I suspect someone else may have a cheaper solution - if so >pipe up, if not let me know and we'll get to the domain name choosing >part of this endeavor... > this is good michael... but have people here considered asking sourceforge.net about this? if it's an open non-profit cause, they would be ready to help. actually i was going to ask lart's primary developers if they'd be interested to move over to sourceforge.net. they are more equipped to handle project maintanence and peak loads (remember slashdot day?).. they provide PHP, shell accounts, MySQL, anonymous FTP space, CVS, 100 MB webspace, primary domain hosting, forums, bug trackers, and a host of other project development and maintanence features - all free of cost. no issues. the admins are very friendly and helpful too. this is information. the decision is upto you :) - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:32:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01233 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:32:11 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01229 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:32:10 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA26028; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:32:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:32:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004172032.WAA26028@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nolan_d@bigfoot.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: More newbie questions In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:41:35 -0500, Nolan Darilek wrote: > I downloaded the ramdisk image and mounted it on a loopback device. In > order to support my design however, I'll need to add some additional > functionality to the vanilla ramdisk. I'll need inetd, an FTP server (A > while back someone recommended just using TFTP, but I may just write > one with very basic functionality), ncurses and an MP3 player. It If you want some more functionality, get Nicolas Pitre's ramdisk at ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ . > looks like there are 2 megs remaining, but I may need to double the > ramdisk size. Is the ramdisk added to the system's flash, or is it > loaded into the onboard 32 megs of RAM? Or both? Or neither? :) I'm a > bit confused about what purpose the flash and onboard RAM serves in an > embedded device. The ramdisk is compressed and burned into the flash. The bootloader copies the ramdisk to a specific position in RAM. The linux kernel knows about this address, looks for the ramdisk, decompresses it, and uses it as root device. > If I want to cross compile libraries and code, what do I need to do? > Are there Debian packages of ARM cross compilers, or should I just > download gcc and roll my own? How difficult is it to keep the cross > compilers in separate environments, so that ARM versions of my > favorite libraries aren't intermingled with my real libraries? You just need a cross compiler. You can build one yourself, or get mine from the LART site (build on my Debian 2.1 box at home ;-). It's a tarball that should be installed in /data/lart, so it doesn't interfere with the native tools. I don't know if there are cross compiler debs available (Jim Studt is more into that, Jim?), but IIRC, there are RPMs available at www.netwinder.org which you can install with alien. Building a cross compiler isn't too difficult if you follow Chris Rutter's guidelines closely (see link on LART site), and it gives you a nice insight in the inner workings of gcc. > Is it somehow possible to test ramdisk images before sending them to > the board? Would something like http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net > be useful here? I don't know. If it is somehow possible to simulate an ARM system: yes. > And this is something else which, though it is newbie-ish, has > confused me for quite some time. :) Once the boards are built and > connected, how and where can cases be purchased? Since embedded > designs differ radically, how exactly can one design a case which > holds all of the components and provides a convenient interface to the > software? Or are there pre-made designs which work well? I'm not aware of pre-made designs. Maybe the standard (well, standard in Europe) "half euro" PCB boxes will fit, because the LART PCB is half the size of a standard euro PCB. We didn't try it yet. Silly plan n+1 is to find an industrial design student to make us a nice case. ;-) Erik -- Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes" use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:40:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01263 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:40:25 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01259 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:40:24 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA26073; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:40:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:40:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004172040.WAA26073@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: varek@saltspring.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: More KSB pictures available In-Reply-To: <38FB6F48.156F6706@saltspring.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:08:40 -0700, Varek wrote: > Thank you for those pictures. They are quite helpful. I wonder (hat in > hand) if you could do me a favour sometime... Could you measure the > thickness of that combo? I mean putting someting flat on the the > highest component on the top board and then measure to the bench. I'm > trying to work out preliminary (read napkin sketch) case concepts and > component (battery?) placement for a product idea. Knowing the > thickness of the LART/KSB combo would help me a lot. The total thickness is 2.1 mm which is about (fires up bc) .83 inch. > I know you're a busy guy and are probably getting requests all the > time. If it's too much trouble don't worry about it but I'd bet I'm not > the only one that would be interested. I do get requests, but the nice thing about it is that I don't longer have to feel guilty if I fullfil one, because as of today I started working full time as a software engineer on the LART. (Now you all know ;-) Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 22:50:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01336 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:50:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01332 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:50:46 +0200 Received: from smtprtp1.ntcom.nortel.net (smtprtp1.ntcom.nortel.net [137.118.22.14]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600A6AHWKJP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:50:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zcard015.ca.nortel.com (actually zcard015) by smtprtp1.ntcom.nortel.net; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:34:30 -0400 Received: from zcard00e.ca.nortel.com ([47.130.0.90]) by zcard015.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id H6NPJS55; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:34:30 -0400 Received: from americasm10.nt.com (wcars0mj.ca.nortel.com [47.209.18.90]) by zcard00e.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 1YXBGPW6; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:34:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:34:26 -0400 From: Behan Webster Subject: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: Hugues Belanger , lart@lart.tudelft.nl, Malcolm Latorre , Richard Cook , Grant Likely Message-id: <38FB7552.A0E539FB@americasm10.nt.com> Organization: Nortel Networks MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <002801bfa897$781f2ba0$981410ac@home.net> <00041712221103.11476@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > > Board buyers, add your name to this list and return it to me > > Brian Kraack , > Jurgen Kramer , > David Poisson , > Anita Yu , > James , > Earl Baugh,, > Michael Vanecek > Hugues Belanger Behan Webster For LART+KSB+Ethernet Behan Webster -- Behan Webster (613) 763-2381 home: mailto:behanw@pobox.com mailto:behanw@nortelnetworks.com http://www.pobox.com/~behanw/ http://spectrumibl/~behanw/ My opinions, not Nortel's. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 23:23:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01529 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:23:26 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01525 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:23:25 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA26263; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:23:22 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:23:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004172123.XAA26263@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Cc: varek@saltspring.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: More KSB pictures available In-Reply-To: <200004172040.WAA26073@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:40:20 +0200 (MET DST), Erik Mouw wrote: > The total thickness is 2.1 mm which is about (fires up bc) .83 inch. Doh! I mean 21 mm (or 2.1 cm). Sorry. Erik -- unix soit qui mal y pense -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 23:25:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01552 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:25:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01548 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:25:20 +0200 From: LeoSusanto@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600AQQJI6JP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:25:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LeoSusanto@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id 1.b1.3260e94 (15547) for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk shouldn;t we inclulde quantity too? Leo Johan Susanto quantity:10 In a message dated Mon, 17 Apr 2000 2:48:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug Moreen writes: > Board buyers, add your name to this list and return it to me > > Brian Kraack , > Jurgen Kramer , > David Poisson , > Anita Yu , > James , > Earl Baugh,, > Michael Vanecek > Hugues Belanger > > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 23:32:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01597 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:32:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01593 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:32:45 +0200 Received: from phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net (phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net [206.80.192.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT600CHDJUI0N@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:32:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 28176 invoked by alias); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:23:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 20415 invoked by uid 0); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:19:48 +0000 Received: from bdslppp188.phnx.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.160.217.188) by phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net with SMTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:19:48 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:19:05 -0700 From: Kevin Brown Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB7FC9.6236051E@uswest.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Delivered-to: fixup-lart@lart.tudelft.nl@fixme X-Accept-Language: en References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <38FB3728.C8721235@inter.nl.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I would also be interested in one. > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > >combo. -- "Intel giveth and Microsoft Taketh Away" - Gordon Moore -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 23:43:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01667 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:43:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01663 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:43:00 +0200 Received: from phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net (phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net [206.80.192.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT600C1IKBIW6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:43:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 23692 invoked by alias); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:36:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 14072 invoked by uid 0); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:31:22 +0000 Received: from bdslppp188.phnx.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.160.217.188) by phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net with SMTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:31:21 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:30:38 -0700 From: Kevin Brown Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FB827E.D7F02F7E@uswest.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Delivered-to: fixup-lart@lart.tudelft.nl@fixme X-Accept-Language: en References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are the people who > have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. > please correct this list if incorrect. > add your name if missing, remove in not interested. > Also, let me know what your preferences are for > 1.) finished vs. bare boards. > 2.) quantity wanted > 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? > > so far we have 27 boards requested > It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it > worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. > > > name and email quantity stuffed? > > Brian Kraack , 1 ? > Jurgen Kramer , 1 ? > David Poisson , 1 ? > Anita Yu , 3 ? > James , 1 ? > Earl Baugh,, 5 ? > Michael Vanecek 1 no > Christopher Seline 1 ? > Rob Leslie 1 ? > Donald Vukovic 1 yes > Chris Curtis 1 ? > Behan Webster 6 ? > Adam Haberlach 1 ? > Nick Gully 1 ? > Simon Labrecque Agarwal 1 ? > Michael Pollina Ephibian 1 yes Add Kevin Brown 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built -- "Intel giveth and Microsoft Taketh Away" - Gordon Moore -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 17 23:57:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01731 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01727 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:35 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600C9YKXYW6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id QAA15022; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:53:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:53:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: More newbie questions In-reply-to: <200004172032.WAA26028@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: nolan_d@bigfoot.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004172153.QAA15022@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > You just need a cross compiler. You can build one yourself, or get mine > from the LART site (build on my Debian 2.1 box at home ;-). It's a tarball > that should be installed in /data/lart, so it doesn't interfere with the > native tools. I don't know if there are cross compiler debs available (Jim > Studt is more into that, Jim?), but IIRC, there are RPMs available at > www.netwinder.org which you can install with alien. Stock Debian does not have packages for all (any?) of the cross compilers. Remember you will need cross linkers and crossed libraries if you plan to cross code in the traditional application style. I will again offer free accounts on a SA110 machine to any developer that wants it. Just send me e-mail requesting one. Then you get to use gdb and you can `chroot' to your image and test much of your image before beginning the code-burn-test-weep cycle. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 00:05:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01850 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:05:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01846 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:05:14 +0200 Received: from h0020afd37295.ne.mediaone.net (h0020afd37295.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.53.21]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600D0OLCOVF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:05:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from lorelei (dhcp102 [10.0.0.102]) by h0020afd37295.ne.mediaone.net (8.10.0.Beta10/8.10.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id e3HM6OJ00526; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:06:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:05:43 -0400 From: Dana Basken Subject: Re: a small proposal To: Kevin Brown Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004c01bfa8b9$133f60c0$6600000a@avaloninteractive.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> <38FB827E.D7F02F7E@uswest.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Add Dana Basken 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built From: "Kevin Brown" > > to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are the people who > > have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. > > please correct this list if incorrect. > > add your name if missing, remove in not interested. > > Also, let me know what your preferences are for > > 1.) finished vs. bare boards. > > 2.) quantity wanted > > 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? > > > > so far we have 27 boards requested > > It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it > > worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. > > > > name and email quantity stuffed? > > > > Brian Kraack , 1 ? > > Jurgen Kramer , 1 ? > > David Poisson , 1 ? > > Anita Yu , 3 ? > > James , 1 ? > > Earl Baugh,, 5 ? > > Michael Vanecek 1 no > > Christopher Seline 1 ? > > Rob Leslie 1 ? > > Donald Vukovic 1 yes > > Chris Curtis 1 ? > > Behan Webster 6 ? > > Adam Haberlach 1 ? > > Nick Gully 1 ? > > Simon Labrecque Agarwal 1 ? > > Michael Pollina Ephibian 1 yes > Add > Kevin Brown 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 00:12:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01890 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:12:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01886 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:12:04 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600D5ALO3VF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:12:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.118) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:55:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:55:56 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Board commitments X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000417142538.00b0e550@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I, and I am sure a great many others, will want a board set, as soon as they are real. I have a TFT LCD panel and a touch screen sitting here waiting for a LART, KSB, and Ethernet I hope those considering putting together a coop will not get disgruntled until after an announcement is made. BTW, my intent is to develop a wireless modem. (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 00:16:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01939 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:16:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01935 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:16:01 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600E0WLUN97@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:16:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.221]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA09024 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:39:19 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:43:41 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: lartquake-0.01 ready! To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002a01bfa8ba$313985a0$dd1e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk i have finished a NULL-quake build :-) no video, no audio, no cdrom, no nothing. everything else intact. i have removed the null network plug and included bsd networking support. [as asked by JDB :)] the binary is ready. i'm mailing this to the developers so that they can verify this. [i'll release the source code as soon as i tidy it - a couple of days?] this binary RUNS through the whole process: game engine, software render, demo playback, everything. but no input. the thing runs the DEMOS in the PAK in a loop till it dies. the only output is the >>console messages on stdout like "you picked up 50 bullets", etc. which you see while the demos are running. this actually means the demos run. game engine is running. software render is taking place. TIMEDEMOS can be done. i have included timedemos from my x86 using the same sources and optimization for comparision. btw, is -O2 ok with the cross compiler? don't say this is a no-good release :-) [i'll hide my face] i'll atleast know quake works on the lart! the demo needs the PAK file in the ID1 directory (remember playing good o' quake??).. it won't run without it. the PAK file is fairly large.. i don't think you can afford to put it in flash. i can't say though. tell me and i'll send the binary across. some clean up and i'll send the code along with working fbdev, (net and sound too?). my order of TODO is this: #1> fbdev vid_ port #2> net_bsd network support (this *should be* fairly out-of-the-box) #3> OSS snd_ port (little little fixing here) #4> code optimization in ARM asm (somebody will have to help!) and others as they come. QUESTIONS: >The KSB has PS/2 connections; you could use those. I guess this is not your >main problem tho. > how do i use these connections? ioctl? i've not worked with ps2 connections before.. how do i handle them? >>#4> sound: guess i'll put in null sound driver for now till oss. > >OK; you can also just send data to /dev/dsp. yup.. i'll fix this in order. > >>#5> net: what are the network interface capabilites? can you put >>the lart on an TCP/IP network yet? or should i put in the null driver? > >It runs Linux, so it can have TCP. > >>#6> where am i (sorry, read that "where are you") gonna put that >>quake P-A-K file on the lart? > >Hard disk or flash. > by "where", i meant.. would you put it in a filesystem? can i use standard fopen/fread on the "id1/pak0.pak" file? is (will there be) a working ext2 or similar filesystem on the lart? i dunno about flash.. cause that PAK file is HUGE! -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 01:01:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02178 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:01:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02174 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:01:25 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600F26NYBEG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:01:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7997490F; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:59:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:59:49 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <004c01bfa8b9$133f60c0$6600000a@avaloninteractive.com> To: Dana Basken Cc: Kevin Brown , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Dana Basken wrote: > Dana Basken 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built > > > Brian Kraack , 1 ? > > > Jurgen Kramer , 1 ? > > > David Poisson , 1 ? > > > Anita Yu , 3 ? > > > James , 1 ? > > > Earl Baugh,, 5 ? > > > Michael Vanecek 1 no > > > Christopher Seline 1 ? > > > Rob Leslie 1 ? > > > Donald Vukovic 1 yes > > > Chris Curtis 1 ? > > > Behan Webster 6 ? > > > Adam Haberlach 1 ? > > > Nick Gully 1 ? > > > Simon Labrecque Agarwal 1 ? > > > Michael Pollina Ephibian 1 yes > > Add > > Kevin Brown 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built Kira Brown (no relation) 1 off LART+KSB+Ether built please :-) k. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 01:29:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02454 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:29:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02450 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:29:03 +0200 Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600FLIP8DEG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:29:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.10.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e3HNGQr04783; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:18:10 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: Re: BOOOOOM To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FAF2F2.536EF28B@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm sending the main board gerber to a board manufacturer for pricing info. I'd also like to get $$$ for the KSB and Ether board, but I can't seem to be able to located the gerber and the bill of material for those board ...! Can someone send the m to me please... Hugues "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > At 02:03 +0200 17-04-2000, rob wrote: > >J.D., > > do you all have the list of parts you ordered? > > Just when I get out of bed to eat some yoghurt you come and ask me for a > BOM. Oh well, even less sleep then. Hope you're happy ;-) > > BOM attached. > > JD 'sleepless in ... well ... Amstelveen' B. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: LART_bom.txt > LART_bom.txt Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: 8bit > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > "... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. > I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. > All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. > Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 01:33:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02490 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:33:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02486 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:33:09 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600FOBPF6FG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:33:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA10005 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:29:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA21805 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:30:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:30:43 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Is the KSB a automonous board with processor, ram, flash, ide controller, serial, USB, ps/2, ethernet (10baseT, rj-45 connector), audio and video (what are the capabilities of the video "card") on it ? If it is, then I would be willing to get one (pre-assembled if possible). Would depend on the price (I'll monitor the list to make sure that I can afford it...being a poor student sucks). David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Kira Brown wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Dana Basken wrote: > > > Dana Basken 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built > > > > Brian Kraack , 1 ? > > > > Jurgen Kramer , 1 ? > > > > David Poisson , 1 ? > > > > Anita Yu , 3 ? > > > > James , 1 ? > > > > Earl Baugh,, 5 ? > > > > Michael Vanecek 1 no > > > > Christopher Seline 1 ? > > > > Rob Leslie 1 ? > > > > Donald Vukovic 1 yes > > > > Chris Curtis 1 ? > > > > Behan Webster 6 ? > > > > Adam Haberlach 1 ? > > > > Nick Gully 1 ? > > > > Simon Labrecque Agarwal 1 ? > > > > Michael Pollina Ephibian 1 yes > > > Add > > > Kevin Brown 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built > Kira Brown (no relation) 1 off LART+KSB+Ether built > please :-) > > > k. > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 02:06:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA02643 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:06:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02639 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:06:51 +0200 Received: from vasquez.zip.com.au (vasquez.zip.com.au [203.12.97.41]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600GMIQZ9EC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:06:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zip.com.au (MAx@starvin-marvin14.zip.com.au [210.23.142.14]) by vasquez.zip.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17482 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:06:37 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:06:23 +1000 From: MaxAttack Subject: Will lart be for me>? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FBA6FF.B93EE9C6@zip.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> <38FB470B.4EE7B8BF@axysdesign.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello I was looking at a few different systems around similar to lart. And i was woundering if it was system or gonna be the system for me. ? All i was hoping was for a handheld system similar to lart for just small coding while on the run or even, diary entry's atm i can see its very early but will it be heading into features similar to that ? . Mabe even a mp3 player :) but thats not necessary. Anyway. thats all i was woundering. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 03:19:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03028 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:19:53 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03022; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:19:49 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FAF2F2.536EF28B@cgocable.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:13:01 +0200 To: Hugues Belanger From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: BOOOOOM Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 13:18 +0200 17-04-2000, Hugues Belanger wrote: >I'm sending the main board gerber to a board manufacturer for pricing info. >I'd also like to get $$$ for the KSB and Ether board, but I can't seem to be >able to located the gerber and the bill of material for those board ...! That's most likely because neither has been released yet. I prefer not to release hardware distributions for items that I haven't finished testing yet. Expect the KSB one to appear befor Easter. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 03:19:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03032 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:19:56 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03024; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:19:51 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:16:34 +0200 To: David Poisson From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 01:30 +0200 18-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: >Is the KSB a automonous board with processor, ram, flash, ide controller, >serial, USB, ps/2, ethernet (10baseT, rj-45 connector), audio and video No, the KSB is an I/O board that plugs into the LART (see l'Art gallery). Ethernet is yet another board that plugs into the KSB. >(what are the capabilities of the video "card") on it ? It's merely a passthrough connector of the digital video lines of the LART to a convenient .1in connector. See the schematics for details. JD 'think PCB sandwitch' B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 03:36:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03150 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:36:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03146 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:36:06 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600I9CV3W1W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:36:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA10312 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:32:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22065 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:34:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:34:04 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ohhh, I see. The thing is (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one which is like that) I want to play and learn about that stuff. I really do (planning on going in electrical engineering). But for now, I don't know anything, so just wanna make sure I know what I get so I know what I can do with it. I still have 2-3 unanswered questions. 1) What are the video options. I mean, I've seen the L'Art gallery and I know you can have a vt220 or an LCD screen. But can you switch display whenever you want or do you have to re-do an entire board ? 2) Is the plug for the audio output a "normal" plug which you can put speakers in ? 3) Does the ethernet card have a rj-45 connector ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 01:30 +0200 18-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: > >Is the KSB a automonous board with processor, ram, flash, ide controller, > >serial, USB, ps/2, ethernet (10baseT, rj-45 connector), audio and video > > No, the KSB is an I/O board that plugs into the LART (see l'Art gallery). > Ethernet is yet another board that plugs into the KSB. > > >(what are the capabilities of the video "card") on it ? > > It's merely a passthrough connector of the digital video lines of the LART > to a convenient .1in connector. See the schematics for details. > > JD 'think PCB sandwitch' B. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 04:26:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03415 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:26:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03411 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:26:58 +0200 Received: from vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au (vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au [203.61.137.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600IB7XGFTR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:26:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au; id MAA15627; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:21:36 +1000 (EST) Received: from aumelvrlms1.roadshow.com.au(203.15.16.16) by vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au via smap (V5.0) id xma015602; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:21:25 +1000 Received: from mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net (mel-ho-lx-19361.roadshow.com.au) by aumelvrlms1.roadshow.com.au (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:21:23 +1000 Received: from froosh.net (mel-ho-nt-19191.roadshow.com.au [203.15.16.20]) by mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net (8.10.0/8.10.0/Debian 8.10.0-1) with ESMTP id e3I2LOJ02601; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:21:24 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:21:23 +1000 From: Robin Frousheger Subject: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FBC6A3.9043BE22@froosh.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> X-Authentication-warning: mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net: Host mel-ho-nt-19191.roadshow.com.au [203.15.16.20] claimed to be froosh.net Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are the people who > have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. > please correct this list if incorrect. > add your name if missing, remove in not interested. > Also, let me know what your preferences are for > 1.) finished vs. bare boards. > 2.) quantity wanted > 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? > > so far we have 27 boards requested > It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it > worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. I'd love to be able to whack my hand up and say '5 please' but I'm finding it a little difficult to commit to such a venture without some rough pricing. It's also a little awkward here in Australia - delivery from around the world normally costs more limbs than I prefer, and the currency conversion seriously bites. Does anyone have rough estimates for a stuffed kit of LART+KSB+Eth ? (Naturally, I've been lurking long enough to see vague numbers but nothing more...) Thanks, Robin Frousheger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 05:09:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03577 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:09:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03573 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:09:38 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600JOBZG03O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:09:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.113) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:53:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:53:36 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Feature Request X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000417195158.00b853b0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I know this is late, but is it possible to include a battery charger on the KSB? Maybe based on the MAX1647? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 05:21:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03648 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:21:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03644 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:21:37 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT600K1YZZZ2J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:21:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.61]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:24:05 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:59:19 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: potential orders To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041721182402.01206@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Attention people who want LARTS here is the list so far today apr 17,2000 9pm, US Mountain Standard time. A couple of points, nobody has commited yet to actual parts, this is just a list to dicker with the fabrication and parts sales people. The Lart group has not released the schematics and Gerber files for the KSB and Ethernet cards, so these won't be shippable until this comes out.. It looks to me that just about everybody prefers to have the parts assembled onto the motherboards, so unless you have a STRONG bare board preferece, then I feel we should see what the additional fabrication cost is to have the parts put onto the card. Over the next few days I'm going to see what the costs for making the boards are here in the US vs. buying the bare boards from the lart group in NL. I then should be able to quote some prices for the actual boards + parts assembled onto the boards. If the spelling of your name, or anything else in the form is wrong, then please do email me with a correction. If anybody wishes to add, or remove their name from this list then please tell me. Thank you very much Doug Moreen first last email address quant STUFFED 1=lart card 2=lart+KSB 3=Lart+KSB+Eth Robert Barnes rab@nulec.com 2 y 3 Dana Basken dana@basken.com 1 y 3 Earl Baugh baugh@revenuetech.com 5 ? ? Kevin Brown kevin_brown@uswest.net 1 y 3 Kira Brown kira@linuxgrrls.org 1 y 3 Mark Crichton mcrichto@ecs.umass.edu 1 y 3 Christopher Curtis chris@satel.com 2 y Leslie Davis ld@stayhealthy.com 5 y 3 Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale wzdd@lardcave.net 2 y 3 Gav Reid Gav@silmaril.co.uk 1 y 3 Nick Gully gully@colorado.edu 1 ? ? Adam Haberlach adam@newsnipple.com 5 y 3 James Heilman jamie@wcug.wwu.edu 2 y 1, 3 James james000@jps.net 1 ? ? Brian Kraack bkraack@siscom.net 1 ? ? Jurgen Kramer GTM.Kramer@inter.nl.net 1 y 3 Simon Labrecque agarwal_@hotmail.com 1 y 2 Derek Lassen kn6td@clubnet.net 2 y 3 Rob Leslie rob@mars.org 2 y 3 Sean Michell seanml@arawak.on.ca 1 y 3 John Murphy john@wyosip.com 1 y 3 Filip Onkelinx filip.okelinx@sl.com 2 y 3 David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org 1 ? ? Michael Pollina ephibian@ufies.org 1 y 1 Chris Price chris.price@montage.ca 2 y 3 Christopher Seline seline@bayarea.net 1 ? ? Sam Stinson sstinson@uswest.net 1 y 3 Jim Studt jim@federated.com 4 y 3 Leo Johan Susanto leosusanto@aol.com 10 y 1 Michael Vanecek mike@mjv.com 1 y ? Varek Varek varek@saltspring.com 1 y 2 Donald Vukovic dvukovic@cdrgts.dsl.frii.com 1 y Behan Webster behan@pobox.com 6 y 3 Anita Yu akyu@hewitt.com 3 ? ? Kris rilliam@hotmail.com 2 y,n ? Nick Randall gibbo@planetquake.com 1 y 2 total 76 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 05:33:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03725 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:33:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03721 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:33:57 +0200 Received: from mail.hotkey.net.au (mail.hotkey.net.au [202.138.0.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700K830KI2J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:33:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from tigger (unknown [202.138.37.7]) by mail.hotkey.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 80AD153F9; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:31:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:31:48 +1000 From: Phillip Crumpler Subject: RE: a small proposal In-reply-to: <38FBC6A3.9043BE22@froosh.net> To: Robin Frousheger Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'd say a big 'Me too!' to that. Three would be nice. I couldn't commit until a firm price was going, but I would be keen to have a few LART+KSB+ETH sent to Australia. Ta, Phillip Crumpler -----Original Message----- From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of Robin Frousheger Sent: Tuesday, 18 April 2000 12:21 PM To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: a small proposal Doug Moreen wrote: > to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are the people who > have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. > please correct this list if incorrect. > add your name if missing, remove in not interested. > Also, let me know what your preferences are for > 1.) finished vs. bare boards. > 2.) quantity wanted > 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? > > so far we have 27 boards requested > It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it > worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. I'd love to be able to whack my hand up and say '5 please' but I'm finding it a little difficult to commit to such a venture without some rough pricing. It's also a little awkward here in Australia - delivery from around the world normally costs more limbs than I prefer, and the currency conversion seriously bites. Does anyone have rough estimates for a stuffed kit of LART+KSB+Eth ? (Naturally, I've been lurking long enough to see vague numbers but nothing more...) Thanks, Robin Frousheger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 06:05:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA03866 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:05:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA03862 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:05:02 +0200 Received: from willow.compsys.com.au ([203.3.166.65]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700JIN2091N@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:05:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nickr ([203.3.166.10]) by willow.compsys.com.au (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA173 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:01:53 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:58:46 +1000 From: nick Subject: can it handle mp3s? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004c01bfa8ea$6558df40$5b641fac@compsys.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd better sort this out before I get too excited about lart: the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) Sorry if its been asked, but I need to make completely sure. I've heard the FPU on it isn't too great, and I assume decoding mpeg is mostly fp right? So has anyone actually done this on the same processor the lart has, and if so, how much cpu time does it take? (for an average 192kbps/16bit/stereo etc stream). While I'm on the topic, what kind of quality is the sound "card" on the ksb? I guess no-one can really answer this yet except the lart guys themselves... Basically the grand plan (which I know is not original) is to stick a lart/ksb/cdrom combo in my car, powered off the car battery (or even an external battery, seeing the low consumption of the board). Can anyone see any fatal flaws with this plan, esp regarding the power supply... I was going to just get a cut-down pc, but the lart seems perfect for the job because of its size and efficiency (and hopefully price! :) If anyone has any comments / suggestions they would be much appreciated... thanks, nick -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 09:29:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04507 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:29:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04503 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:29:15 +0200 Received: from server-4.tower-1.london-2.starlabs.net (mail.london-2.starlabs.net [212.125.75.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT7003GIBGQE4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:29:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 21851 invoked from network); Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:25:30 +0000 Received: from mail.napp.co.uk (HELO uk1fsfwl01.napp.co.uk) (194.128.159.34) by server-4.tower-1.london-2.starlabs.net with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:25:30 +0000 Received: from [172.16.11.13] by uk1fsfwl01.napp.co.uk via smtpd (for mail.london-2.starlabs.net [212.125.75.4]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:28:02 +0000 (UT) Received: from 127.0.0.1 by mailhost.napp.co.uk (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT) ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:28:01 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Received: by mailhost.napp.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <20LXQF75>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:28:00 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:27:58 +0100 From: "Lawson, Rick" Subject: RE: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-VirusChecked: Checked Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I would also be looking for assembled boards - would anybody in the UK be interested in building some up for those of us that have very little hardware experience? Rick Lawson | BSD | Napp Pharmaceutical Group -----Original Message----- From: Varek [mailto:varek@saltspring.com] Sent: 17 April 2000 20:59 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: a small proposal Hugues Belanger wrote: > > I'm interested, but is there anyone interested in buy assembled boards ? > > I'm working on getting a friend of the family to built some for me, but he > won't do it unless I get can buy a couple of hundreds... > > I'm getting the bill of material and I'll be shopping soon, I was wondering > if someone had done this before and is willing to help me ....? That would > seed up the process... I'd prefer to buy assembled boards myself. I was an electronics technologist in a previous life but have been a SW guy for the last 10 years or so. Last time I was soldering parts they still had pins coming out the other side of the board (remember SIPs and DIPs ladies and gentlemen?). I doubt I'd have much luck trying to do SMC. I know this has been asked but I'm looking for clarification. What is the price estimate for FULLY ASSEMBLED LART and KSB boards? I've seen many numbers fly around for the last few days but I suspect they were for bare boards only. This question is within the context of being able to get enough people interested to qualify for a bulk price. Varek (in the Victoria, BC area since someone was asking) varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 ___________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ _______________________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential and privileged information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and destroy and delete the message from your computer. ___________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 11:32:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05015 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05011 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:58 +0200 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700CMVH6X4K@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hUIW-00079j-0A for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:27:57 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:25:11 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-reply-to: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk As has been mentioned by someone else on the list, messages from the list server have... Reply to: Original Author Cc: The_Lart_List_Server On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to list but instead get the original author Is there any way of changing this 'cos it doesn't seem to work that way around on other lists or am I mistaken. Kind Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 11:32:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05009 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05005 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:56 +0200 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700CQRH6V6O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:32:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hUIU-00079i-0A for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:27:54 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:13:06 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: UK request for assembled was... a small proposal In-reply-to: <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk >, Lawson, Rick writes >I would also be looking for assembled boards - would anybody in the UK be >interested in building some up for those of us that have very little >hardware experience? > Its possible I might get involved in it depending on interest levels although I would prefer to pass it through one of the assembly houses I know if I can interest them in some ongoing work. If anyone else is interested either reply to the list or to steve.personal@p2cl.demon.co.uk Also depending on quantities it might be worth tagging onto the American board build or doing our own. Also, I havne't followed the .nl build situation so I don't know whats going on there that might be of interest. Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 11:41:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05098 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:41:02 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05093; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:40:52 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:40:44 +0200 To: Steve Goodwin From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 11:25 +0200 18-04-2000, Steve Goodwin wrote: >As has been mentioned by someone else on the list, messages from the >list server have... > > Reply to: Original Author > Cc: The_Lart_List_Server > >On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to >list but instead get the original author > >Is there any way of changing this 'cos it doesn't seem to work that way >around on other lists or am I mistaken. Technically it's possible. See http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html why we don't. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 11:47:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05115 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:47:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05111 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:47:29 +0200 Received: from joanna.william.org (joanna.william.org [195.153.6.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700E81HV2CS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:47:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjo by joanna.william.org with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12hUNP-0001z2-00 (Debian); Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:32:59 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:32:59 +0100 (BST) From: Martin Oldfield Subject: potential orders In-reply-to: <00041721182402.01206@localhost.localdomain> To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <14588.11145.283002.300042@joanna.william.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <00041721182402.01206@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Please could you add my name to the list of interested parties ? I'm in Cambridge UK, and have a preference for stuffed rather than bare boards. Cheers, -- Martin Oldfield. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:00:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05163 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:12 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05159 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:11 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA00291; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004181000.MAA00291@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: david@fish.ecks.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: a small proposal In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:34:04 +0000 (GMT), David Poisson wrote: > Ohhh, I see. The thing is (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one which > is like that) I want to play and learn about that stuff. I really do > (planning on going in electrical engineering). But for now, I don't know > anything, so just wanna make sure I know what I get so I know what I can > do with it. Electrical Engineering at university level is a very theoretical study. Don't expect to start playing with soldering irons from the first day on; you'll get stuffed with mathematics, physics, network theory, digital logic, programming, etc. to give you a sound theoretical basis. The first year can be very boring, but it will get better later on. Been there, done that (got an M.Sc. in EE). > I still have 2-3 unanswered questions. > 1) What are the video options. I mean, I've seen the L'Art gallery and I > know you can have a vt220 or an LCD screen. But can you switch display > whenever you want or do you have to re-do an entire board ? The vt220 is connected to the serial port, the picture in l'Art gallery is just a nice demo because we normally connect a LART to a PC serial port and run minicom to get things done. The LCD is optional: it behaves like a "normal" Linux console, so you can even use virtual console switching and the like, although you'll need a keyboard for that. > 2) Is the plug for the audio output a "normal" plug which you can put > speakers in ? No, you'll have to make a small make your own "audio output board". It just needs to hold two capacitors and your choice of audio connector(s). It was just a matter of space: the main problem when designing the KSB board layout was where to leave all those large connectors (10x7cm is small). > 3) Does the ethernet card have a rj-45 connector ? Not on the ethernet card itself, the RJ45 connector is on a small board which also holds the ethernet transformer. Again, this is just a matter of space. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:05:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05203 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:05:23 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05199 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:05:22 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA00324; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:04:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:04:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004181004.MAA00324@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: steve.lart@p2cl.demon.co.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:25:11 +0100, Steve Goodwin wrote: > On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to > list but instead get the original author Use "group reply" instead of simple "reply". That's how it works in ELM. Erik -- Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes" use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:08:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05228 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:08:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05224 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:08:10 +0200 Received: from mrq1.static.cx (N701P025.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.97.153]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT700FMNIT2ON@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:08:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 15649 invoked from network); Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:04:21 +0000 Received: from loopback (HELO gmx.net) (127.0.0.1) by loopback with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:04:21 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:04:17 +0200 From: "Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer" Subject: a new suggestion To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FC3321.E3F31152@gmx.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk just another suggestion: a blue tooth chip on the ethernet-board, for a mp3-player in a car. after parking at home, the daily napster-progress is automatically ftp'ed to a big, shock resistant harddisk. but there is one problem, i should emulate the interface of a blaupunkt cd-changer, for controlling the lart over the car radio :-) mfg mrq1 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:11:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05259 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:11:02 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05252; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:10:59 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004c01bfa8ea$6558df40$5b641fac@compsys.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:47 +0200 To: nick From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:58 +0200 18-04-2000, nick wrote: >Just thought I'd better sort this out before I get too excited about lart: > >the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) Yes. See the archive for a comparison of CPU time per player (there are around four players that will work , IIRC). It's arund 20-25% CPU now, and I believe that with some clever coding to the cache we can bring it down to 10%. >While I'm on the topic, what kind of quality is the sound "card" on the ksb? >I guess no-one can really answer this yet except the lart guys themselves... I'd say it's pretty good. We use the same audio DAC as http://www.audioimports.com/reviews/rev_dec_98_1.html . The output opamps have a noise figure that's about two times better than the famous NE5534s, and their unity gain bandwidth is 160MHz. The filter impedance is pretty low (1k) to reduce external pickup, and the decoupling is downright paranoid. I designed the audio output with mp3 in mind myself. That means that it's maybe $15 more expensive than a minimal solution would be, but IMHO that's money well spent. >Basically the grand plan (which I know is not original) is to stick a >lart/ksb/cdrom combo in my car, powered off the car battery (or even an >external battery, seeing the low consumption of the board). Can anyone see >any fatal flaws with this plan, esp regarding the power supply... >I was going to just get a cut-down pc, but the lart seems perfect for the >job because of its size and efficiency (and hopefully price! :) It should work OK. I'd personally insert a cheap linear regulator (a 7805 will do) to filter out the worst spikes in the 12V car power system. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:11:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05262 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:11:04 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05254; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:11:00 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00041721182402.01206@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:09:59 +0200 To: dogman@bitterroot.net From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: potential orders Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:59 +0200 18-04-2000, Doug Moreen wrote: >Attention people who want LARTS here is the list so far today apr 17,2000 9pm, >US Mountain Standard time. > > > >A couple of points, nobody has commited yet to actual parts, this is just a >list to dicker with the fabrication and parts sales people. >The Lart group has not released the schematics and Gerber files for the KSB >and Ethernet cards, so these won't be shippable until this comes out.. The schematics are available; expect the Gerbers soon. May I once again urge people not to build PCBs until they have the major parts ? You're pretty much guaranteed to get the PCBs either from me or from a board fab of your choice; the parts are quite another matter. And that's not just for LART, but for any project that needs parts that aren't sold by Digi-Key or the like. Oh and *please wait* for Lart Rev 4, which will use the Linear LTC1266 converters in stad of the Maxim MAX162[67]. Sure this will up the price of a LART by $4, but the Linear parts are available *now* and not in 16 weeks. As I found out the hard way Maxim has more problems supplying parts than Linear. A nice added bonus is that the overall power conversion efficiency should go up one or two percent. JDB. [who got halfway finishing rev 4 last night] -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 12:54:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05421 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:54:09 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05416; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:54:04 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000417195158.00b853b0@mail.clubnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:52:43 +0200 To: Derek Lassen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Feature Request Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 04:53 +0200 18-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: >I know this is late, but is it possible to include a battery charger on the >KSB? >Maybe based on the MAX1647? The KSB is completely packed (esp. wrt. connector space). OTOH it should be easy to add an external charger yourself. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 13:00:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05477 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:00:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05473 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:00:07 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700K1JL812T@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:00:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FCFA74812; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:48:15 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:48:15 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <004c01bfa8ea$6558df40$5b641fac@compsys.com.au> To: nick Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, nick wrote: > Sorry if its been asked, but I need to make completely sure. I've heard the > FPU on it isn't too great, It doesn't *have* an FPU. I guess that counts as 'not great'. > and I assume decoding mpeg is mostly fp right? Only if you code it that way. > So has anyone actually done this on the same processor the lart has, > and if so, how much cpu time does it take? (for an average > 192kbps/16bit/stereo etc stream). Depends on how good you want to make your mpeg decoder. I've done it in about 10% of CPU time on a 202MHz SA-110. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 14:08:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA05675 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:08:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05671 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:08:28 +0200 Received: from imsp073.netvigator.com (imsp073.netvigator.com [205.252.144.130]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700249OE06S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:08:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ctcdesktop (bbig038119.netvigator.com [203.198.117.119]) by imsp073.netvigator.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA23284 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:55:12 +0800 (HKT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:57:00 +0800 From: ctc Subject: RE: a small proposal In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id OAA05672 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I want 1 Lart+KSB+Eth built provided that I can afford the price. Cheng Tak Cheung > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl > [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of Phillip Crumpler > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 11:32 AM > To: Robin Frousheger > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: RE: a small proposal > > > I'd say a big 'Me too!' to that. Three would be nice. I couldn't commit > until a firm price was going, but I would be keen to have a few > LART+KSB+ETH > sent to Australia. > > Ta, > Phillip Crumpler > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Robin Frousheger > Sent: Tuesday, 18 April 2000 12:21 PM > To: dogman@bitterroot.net > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: a small proposal > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > to everybody who is interested in getting a LART board here are > the people > who > > have signed up so far and the count that I have on the quantity desired. > > please correct this list if incorrect. > > add your name if missing, remove in not interested. > > Also, let me know what your preferences are for > > 1.) finished vs. bare boards. > > 2.) quantity wanted > > 3.) just the LART board or also the KSB and Ethernet boards? > > > > so far we have 27 boards requested > > It looks like we are actually getting close to having enough to make it > > worthwhile, though greater than 100 cards per run would be preferable. > > I'd love to be able to whack my hand up and say '5 please' but I'm finding > it a > little difficult to commit to such a venture without some rough pricing. > > It's also a little awkward here in Australia - delivery from around the > world > normally costs more limbs than I prefer, and the currency conversion > seriously > bites. > > Does anyone have rough estimates for a stuffed kit of LART+KSB+Eth ? > (Naturally, > I've been lurking long enough to see vague numbers but nothing more...) > > Thanks, > Robin Frousheger > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 14:44:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA05844 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:44:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05840 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:44:21 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT70057TQ1U6W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:44:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21166 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21789 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:31:36 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: LART Packaging... To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk As the wheels start turning to build LART + KSB + Ethernet boards has anyone given any thought about packaging ? A slick set of skins would certainly mark LART as unique... any industrial / graphics designers lurking who are up for the challenge ? Terry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 15:39:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06111 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:39:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06107 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:39:27 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT7008VZSLK3X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:39:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA22640 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:35:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:35:12 -0400 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: "Your message of Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:00:47 +0200." To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004181335.JAA22640@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk nick wrote: >> the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) "J.D. Bakker" replied: > Yes. See the archive for a comparison of CPU time per player (there are > around four players that will work , IIRC). It's arund 20-25% CPU now, and > I believe that with some clever coding to the cache we can bring it down to > 10%. The best number I found for MP3 decoding on the SA-1100 was 24% (Xaudio) with the next best being in the 32-41% CPU range. For the complete list, see: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/list-one.php3?mid=200004150136.VAA31093%40deimos.mars.org The smaller CPU numbers are only currently for the other audio layers, "MP1" and "MP2" (21-25% among the best) which generally require a much higher bitrate than MP3 to achieve the same quality. I am doing active development on MAD. If anyone would like to help, I invite you to join the mad-dev mailing list: http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 15:57:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06196 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:57:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06192 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:57:16 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700BBVTFE75@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:57:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA22726 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:57:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:57:12 -0400 From: Rob Leslie Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: "Your message of Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:48:15 BST." To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004181357.JAA22726@deimos.mars.org> MIME-version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk nick wrote: >> So has anyone actually done this on the same processor the lart has, >> and if so, how much cpu time does it take? (for an average >> 192kbps/16bit/stereo etc stream). Kira Brown replied: > Depends on how good you want to make your mpeg decoder. I've done it in > about 10% of CPU time on a 202MHz SA-110. Nick: see the timings I posted earlier, in the archive. Kira: very interesting. Care to elaborate? Erik Mouw mentioned that Nicolas Pitre's fixed-point version of `splay' can decode MP3s with as little as 4% CPU on the 280MHz SA-110, but it performs much worse (41%) according to my own tests on the 220MHz SA-1100. The hypothesis is this is primarily due to different sizes of the data cache, and some clever optimization may improve decoding performance significantly on the SA-1100 for the LART. I'm eager to see if this is true. Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 16:14:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06294 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:14:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06290 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:14:06 +0200 Received: from www.media-net.de ([213.155.13.97]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700C9XU7GUC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:14:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mbox.bfk.loc (e1.gw.mdhs.bbone.dacotec.net [213.155.1.11]) by www.media-net.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA01356 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:13:59 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:54:24 +0200 From: Roland Kaercher Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <200004181335.JAA22640@deimos.mars.org> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <00041814124104.06678@mbox.bfk.loc> Organization: Bauhaus fuer Kommunikation GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29.1] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <200004181335.JAA22640@deimos.mars.org> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Maybe I don't get the point here, but why would you want to waste processing time for decoding MP3? A while ago I had found a Hardware mp3 decoder project at mp3.com, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore, but anyway, I am lucky that I had ordered the two chips, one for the decoding (the MP3 decoder was something with a 34xx in it - I can look that up tomorrow if somebody is interested) and a small dsp wich should do the tone controls etc. - all it needs is a parallel port to get the stream over, a requirement the LART pretty well fulfills. Now you can think of what to do with all the processing power left :-) Roland On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, you wrote: > nick wrote: > >> the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) > > "J.D. Bakker" replied: > > Yes. See the archive for a comparison of CPU time per player (there are > > around four players that will work , IIRC). It's arund 20-25% CPU now, and > > I believe that with some clever coding to the cache we can bring it down to > > 10%. > > The best number I found for MP3 decoding on the SA-1100 was 24% (Xaudio) with > the next best being in the 32-41% CPU range. > > For the complete list, see: > > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/list-one.php3?mid=200004150136.VAA31093%40deimos.mars.org > > The smaller CPU numbers are only currently for the other audio layers, "MP1" > and "MP2" (21-25% among the best) which generally require a much higher > bitrate than MP3 to achieve the same quality. > > I am doing active development on MAD. If anyone would like to help, I invite > you to join the mad-dev mailing list: > > http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ > > Cheers, > > -- > Rob Leslie > rob@mars.org > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 16:25:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06392 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:25:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06388 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:25:46 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700E16UQU5O@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:25:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:17:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <200004181357.JAA22726@deimos.mars.org> To: Rob Leslie Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > Erik Mouw mentioned that Nicolas Pitre's fixed-point version of `splay' can > decode MP3s with as little as 4% CPU on the 280MHz SA-110, but it performs > much worse (41%) according to my own tests on the 220MHz SA-1100. > > The hypothesis is this is primarily due to different sizes of the data cache, > and some clever optimization may improve decoding performance significantly on > the SA-1100 for the LART. I'm eager to see if this is true. I'll certainly give it a try when time will permit. However I suspect that reducing the memory footprint of splay will affect its performances on the SA110 a bit. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 16:37:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06441 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:37:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06437 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:37:13 +0200 Received: from crisp.com (crisp.com [192.41.58.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700F1IV9W82@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:37:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crisp.com (159.encentris.com [204.0.61.159]) by crisp.com (8.8.5) id IAA19925; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:31:11 -0500 From: Kent Perrier Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? To: nick Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: kent.perrier@oneco.net Message-id: <38FC71AF.A3D01BC5@crisp.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <004c01bfa8ea$6558df40$5b641fac@compsys.com.au> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk nick wrote: > > Just thought I'd better sort this out before I get too excited about > lart: > > the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) Sure it does. Look at www.empeg.com Its a StrongARM powered, Linux running MP3 player for the car. Kent -- "I've won at every level, except college and pro." --Shaquille O'Neal -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 16:48:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06535 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:48:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06531 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:48:27 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700F8ZVSPWV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:48:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.77] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4ED799025A; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:45:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:46:50 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FC755A.A698C5D9@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk IHMO - I always figured the LART as being the guts to whatever skin the application required. The core developers did all the tedious work (which is way much appreciated), leaving us free to do the creative application work - be it a hip mounted mp3 player or an appliance controler or a gateway/router. Hence, the look will depend on the project. I'm sure everyone who wants one or more of these babies have daydreamed about how it would look after they've finished their project. I really look forward to seeing the results of those daydreams... I thought open source software was a blast - but open source software and open source hardware - whooeee... :) Mike T Sullivan wrote: > > As the wheels start turning to build LART + KSB + Ethernet boards has > anyone given any thought about packaging ? > > A slick set of skins would certainly mark LART as unique... any > industrial / graphics designers lurking who are up for the challenge ? > > Terry > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 16:52:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06570 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:52:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06566 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:52:02 +0200 Received: from crisp.com (crisp.com [192.41.58.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700G56VYO6M@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:52:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crisp.com (159.encentris.com [204.0.61.159]) by crisp.com (8.8.5) id IAA21286; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:46:29 -0500 From: Kent Perrier Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: kent.perrier@oneco.net Message-id: <38FC7545.A821EE23@crisp.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004181335.JAA22640@deimos.mars.org> <00041814124104.06678@mbox.bfk.loc> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Roland Kaercher wrote: > > Maybe I don't get the point here, but why would you want to waste > processing time for decoding MP3? A while ago I had found a Hardware > mp3 decoder project at mp3.com, but unfortunately I can't find it > anymore, but anyway, I am Was this what your saw? http://www.interlog.com/~miclee/mp3.html Kent -- "I've won at every level, except college and pro." --Shaquille O'Neal -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 17:26:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06700 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:26:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06696 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:26:06 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT700HP5XJGMB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:26:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:33:23 +0000 (UT) Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id GTS0MM1B; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:23:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:22:48 -0400 From: Holly Gates Subject: Re: Bay Area (Si Valley Bay Area) LART grouping? To: Adam Haberlach Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FC7DC8.B0160EE9@eink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000414170341.A760@ricochet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have some code around which renders a gerber file in an X window that a friend wrote for a tabletop NC circuit board mill that we built. Do you want the source? Gerber is very much like G code (used to control CNC machine tools), for which there are multiple books and references. -Holly Gates Hardware Engineer E Ink Corp. www.eink.com MIT BSEE '99 Adam Haberlach wrote: > > I just joined this list after it was posted to Slashdot. > I'm a Computer Engineering major who ended up working in software > and I would like to do some real hardware hacking. > > Is there anyone in the bay area putting together a group > purchase of boards? I have not specced anything out yet, but I > assume that higher quantities bring the price down a bit. I'd > like to build one just for kicks, possibly to make a router or > two. > > Also--does anyone know where I can get information on the > Gerber file format? I was thinking of writing a Viewer (or > CAD program, if I get really motivated and have 30 hour days all > of the sudden) for BeOS. > > -- > Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the > adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with > http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 17:52:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06805 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:52:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06801 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:52:52 +0200 Received: from socket.house ([208.243.144.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700JBCYS3Y0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by newsnipple.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:01:41 -0700 From: Adam Haberlach Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <200004181000.MAA00291@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl>; from Erik Mouw on Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 12:00:08PM +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000418090140.C21062@ricochet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200004181000.MAA00291@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 12:00:08PM +0200, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:34:04 +0000 (GMT), David Poisson wrote: > > Ohhh, I see. The thing is (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one which > > is like that) I want to play and learn about that stuff. I really do > > (planning on going in electrical engineering). But for now, I don't know > > anything, so just wanna make sure I know what I get so I know what I can > > do with it. > > > Electrical Engineering at university level is a very theoretical study. > Don't expect to start playing with soldering irons from the first day on; > you'll get stuffed with mathematics, physics, network theory, digital > logic, programming, etc. to give you a sound theoretical basis. The first > year can be very boring, but it will get better later on. Been there, done > that (got an M.Sc. in EE). > Many Universities are trying to fix this, however. I know that Oregon State now has a good freshman program involving building kit robots in order to make sure people know what they are going to be doing and keep them interested. You still have to learn a surprising amount of physics, math, and other fun things to get through the Computer Engineering Program, though. (And it is surprising how useful things like real number theory is when you start dealing with AC circuits) -- Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:00:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06846 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:00:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06842 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:00:05 +0200 From: chris@satel.com Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700JOAZ44OF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:00:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from www by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12haDs-0005Ev-00; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:47:32 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:00:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mailhost1.tudelft.nl To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <0FT700JOBZ44OF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> User-Agent: IMHO/0.97.1 (Webmail for Roxen) Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:47:32 -700 To: kent.perrier@oneco.net X-Originating-IP: [209.210.211.17] From: Chris Curtis In-Reply-To: <38FC7545.A821EE23@crisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Content-Length: 1294 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: can it handle =?iso-8859-1?q?mp3s=3F?= Message-Id: > > Maybe I don't get the point here, but why would you want to waste > > processing time for decoding MP3? A while ago I had found a Hardware > > mp3 decoder project at mp3.com, but unfortunately I can't find it > > anymore, but anyway, I am > Or maybe a nice little KSB-II with a MAS3507D decoder.... http://www.intermetall.com/pages/product_documentation/consumer/mas.ht ml ------------------------------ Chris Curtis Systems Engineer Satel Corporation "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:13:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06912 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:13:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06908 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:13:58 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT700L8DZR78P@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:13:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.129]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA22019 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:37:14 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:41:33 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <003901bfa950$c5eec2a0$811e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Roland Kaercher wrote: >> >> Maybe I don't get the point here, but why would you want to waste >> processing time for decoding MP3? A while ago I had found a Hardware >> mp3 decoder project at mp3.com, but unfortunately I can't find it >> anymore, but anyway, I am > >Was this what your saw? > >http://www.interlog.com/~miclee/mp3.html > i thought hardware implementation of an MP3 decoder was COSTLY!!!! LICENCE FEES TO THOMSON? go over to fraunhofer IIS and check out! read the LICENSE! unlike software decoders, for ANY hardware implementation of MP3, EVEN FOR A FREE HARDWARE CORE, you have to pay LICENCE costs. - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:24:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07033 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:24:39 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07029 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:24:38 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21794; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:24:35 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004181624.SAA21794@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Feature Request To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:24:35 +0200 (MEST) Cc: kn6td@clubnet.net (Derek Lassen), lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: from "J.D. Bakker" at Apr 18, 2000 12:52:43 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > At 04:53 +0200 18-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > >I know this is late, but is it possible to include a battery charger on the > >KSB? > >Maybe based on the MAX1647? > > The KSB is completely packed (esp. wrt. connector space). OTOH it should be > easy to add an external charger yourself. ...and besides that, what type of battery would you like to charge? There's nickel-cadmium (NiCd), nickel-metallic-hydride (NiMH), lithium-ion (LiIon), and of course the good old (sealed) lead-acid battery. Then there are several charging schemes, some suitable for all types, while others are very specific. There's constant voltage, constant current (with discharge), delta peak with or without temperature detection or topoff... In fact, one of my ideas for a LART application would be a near-perfect battery charger. It depends on the AD/DA card that hasn't materialized yet, and of course some booster stage. Anyone want to add a fuel cell to the available plug-ins? :) -- Marc e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:50:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07137 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:50:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07133 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:50:17 +0200 Received: from listserv.tudelft.nl (listserv.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT80002O1FS6B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:50:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from its.tudelft.nl (IDENT:pouwelse@mobile.ubicom.tudelft.nl [130.161.43.247]) by listserv.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03877; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:50:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:50:33 +0200 From: Johan Pouwelse Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? To: chris@satel.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FCAE79.82AB5BC8@its.tudelft.nl> Organization: Technical University Delft MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <0FT700JOBZ44OF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk chris@satel.com wrote: > > > Maybe I don't get the point here, but why would you want to waste > > > > processing time for decoding MP3? A while ago I had found a Hardware > > > mp3 decoder project at mp3.com, but unfortunately I can't find it > > > anymore, but anyway, I am > Or maybe a nice little KSB-II with a MAS3507D decoder.... Yes it is possible. About 1 1/2 year ago I talked to the developers of this chip at Fraunhofer/Intermetal and it looked nice, but using software is much better. Why do we stay with MP3 when we can have Advanced Audio Coding. Instead of the MP3 frequency/time resolution of 41.66 Hz/4 ms, we can go to 23 Hz/2.7 ms. Compression factors of 1 : 18! Such an upgrade is simpeler in software then hardware... Johan, the audio guy of LART at .nl with motto: more means better... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:54:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07165 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:54:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07160 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:54:35 +0200 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800MF81MYZB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hbCO-000Egw-0Y for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:50:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:36:58 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: UK request for assembled was... a small proposal In-reply-to: <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <8C4D1F0AFE3DD311A9A700A0C9A295650274D29D@mailhost.napp.co.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk OK, I have a few people from UK and beyond interested. I will continue to collect names over the next 10 days or so and then e-mail the list with a list of interested parties so anyone can make sure I have received their e-mails. Then I'll look at quantities and start looking at PCB's and UK parts. At the same time I'll try to track the US effort in case it makes more sense to import. If anyone else fancies moving faster or in a different direction, that is fine by me, I'll help as I can. By the way, sorry, can't work faster than that, I'm getting married and moving house over the next few months and its pretty busy around here (quite apart from normal work issues ) Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:55:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07179 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07171 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:06 +0200 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800MGA1NTZB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hbCO-000Egu-0Y; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:50:04 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:16:13 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message , J.D. Bakker writes >At 11:25 +0200 18-04-2000, Steve Goodwin wrote: >>As has been mentioned by someone else on the list, messages from the >>list server have... >> >> Reply to: Original Author >> Cc: The_Lart_List_Server >> >>On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to >>list but instead get the original author >> >>Is there any way of changing this 'cos it doesn't seem to work that way >>around on other lists or am I mistaken. > >Technically it's possible. See >http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html why we don't. > Thanks, will do Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 18:55:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07180 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07172 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:06 +0200 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800MG91NTZB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:55:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hbCO-000Egv-0Y; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:50:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:17:35 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-reply-to: <200004181004.MAA00324@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <200004181004.MAA00324@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <200004181004.MAA00324@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl>, Erik Mouw writes >On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:25:11 +0100, Steve Goodwin wrote: >> On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to >> list but instead get the original author > >Use "group reply" instead of simple "reply". That's how it works in ELM. > Yes, Thanks. I can do that but was concerned that sending a personal e- mail to the author plus a reply to the list was inappropriate Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 19:16:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07330 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:16:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07326 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:16:56 +0200 Received: from www.media-net.de ([213.155.13.97]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8000HS2O73W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:16:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mbox.bfk.loc (e1.gw.mdhs.bbone.dacotec.net [213.155.1.11]) by www.media-net.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03120 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:13:09 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:05:33 +0200 From: Roland Kaercher Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <003901bfa950$c5eec2a0$811e36ca@muks> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <00041817115105.06678@mbox.bfk.loc> Organization: Bauhaus fuer Kommunikation GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29.1] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <003901bfa950$c5eec2a0$811e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hmm, I paid about $35 for the 2 chips, AFAIK the manufacturer of the chip has to pay the license fee not the one who is actually using it or am I wrong? I mean the only thing you can to with this chip (yes and you only need *this* chip and some analogue parts around - schematics are on the vendor site ) is to decode MP3. BTW, there is a new compression/reduction format released under the GPL at sourceforge. Maybe that would be nice to support :) Roland On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, you wrote: > > i thought hardware implementation of an MP3 decoder was COSTLY!!!! > LICENCE FEES TO THOMSON? go over to fraunhofer IIS and check out! > read the LICENSE! > > unlike software decoders, for ANY hardware implementation of MP3, > EVEN FOR A FREE HARDWARE CORE, you have to pay LICENCE costs. > > - muks > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 19:20:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07361 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:20:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07357 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:20:35 +0200 From: chris@satel.com Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8000D72U9SG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:20:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from www by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12hbft-0001rM-00; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:20:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:20:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mailhost1.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <0FT8000D92UASG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:20:33 -700 In-Reply-To: <38FCAE79.82AB5BC8@its.tudelft.nl> To: Johan Pouwelse From: Chris Curtis X-Originating-IP: [209.210.211.17] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 2158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: can it handle =?iso-8859-1?q?mp3s=3F?= User-Agent: IMHO/0.97.1 (Webmail for Roxen) Message-Id: >> Or maybe a nice little KSB-II with a MAS3507D decoder.... >Yes it is possible. About 1 1/2 year ago I talked to the developers of >this chip at Fraunhofer/Intermetal and it looked nice, but using >software is much better. > > Why do we stay with MP3 when we can have Advanced Audio Coding. > Instead of the MP3 frequency/time resolution of 41.66 Hz/4 ms, we can go > to 23 Hz/2.7 ms. > Compression factors of 1 : 18! Such an upgrade is simpeler in software > then hardware... > I do like the ability to change algorithms in software. The original concern seemed to be how much load MP3 or AAC put on the SA-1100, so hardware seemed an obvious answer. So without sacrificing upgradeability and without loading the SA-1100 down, how about driving that PCM1710 with a TMS320C54x DSP? Relatively inexpensive (~ USD 7) and really fast for that kind of work. Not to mention 0.54mW/MIPS. ------------------------------ Chris Curtis Systems Engineer Satel Corporation "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 20:06:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07603 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:06:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07599 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:06:02 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT80029C4TGFL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:06:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01134; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:03:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Steve Goodwin , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk shouldn't it then be reply to the reply to address and cc the author? but of course how do you know who / where to send the reply if the author is not the sender or the reply to address. also, can ANYONE from anywhere POST to this list, EVEN THOSE NOT SUBSCRIBED. This would be BAD as well as it invites SPAMMING the list. so if only those subscribed can post, and all subscribers (by definition) receive list traffic will the sender/author not then receive the reply? the current setup only serves to fill the mailboxes of the author and others with twice the necessary volume. please consilder the above. as a user of this list I would like to see it setup where replies go to the list. maybe this is an issue that could/should pe put to a vote of the users of this list. I do however respect the list owner and his final authoritative judgement in this and other matters pretaining to how this list is run. it is, after all his list. Eric Fort On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 11:25 +0200 18-04-2000, Steve Goodwin wrote: > >As has been mentioned by someone else on the list, messages from the > >list server have... > > > > Reply to: Original Author > > Cc: The_Lart_List_Server > > > >On my system, if I just click reply, I feel I should simply reply to > >list but instead get the original author > > > >Is there any way of changing this 'cos it doesn't seem to work that way > >around on other lists or am I mistaken. > > Technically it's possible. See > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html why we don't. > > JDB. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 20:33:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07743 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:33:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07739 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:33:23 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8002KK67MFL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:33:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6 [206.191.0.248]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29431; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10306; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:20:36 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Roland Kaercher , Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FCA774.C7A0B58F@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> <00041813324802.06678@mbox.bfk.loc> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Roland Kaercher wrote: > Hmm, > as I want to use the LART as a wearable device I have just thought of an > aluminum case as it should be easy to get them in a shape suitable to put the > LART + the other boards in. I certainly agree that there is likely to be a whole range of opinions on the issue of packaging. Everything from keep-it-simple and practical to - hmmm - more exotic or unusual ideas. OTOH, so far there has been a fairly wide set of application ideas for LART hence a need for more than one type of packaging. Consequently, my only article-of-faith in all of this is that packaging tends to as important as any piece of hardware or software functionality. Hence while a primary goal here should be to help make functional packaging available to people along with the hardware and software I agree with Mike Vanecek's previous post on this thread - I too am really curious with what people will dream up and how this will evolve over time... > If mine will get some sort of > display or controls I would try to design it like the silver Minidisc players > by SHARP. (Although I have never done anything like this before ;-) > Roland > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, you wrote: > > As the wheels start turning to build LART + KSB + Ethernet boards has > > anyone given any thought about packaging ? > > > > A slick set of skins would certainly mark LART as unique... any > > industrial / graphics designers lurking who are up for the challenge ? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 20:47:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07813 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:47:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07809 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:47:01 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8002QA6UBFL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:47:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01284; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:47:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> To: Doug Moreen Cc: Scott Ritchie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'd already been thinking of this. i'm in florida and would like a few asembled (and tested) units). take orders - set a cutoff date and make all orders prepaid by that date. then order and ship. -eric On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few percentage > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a 30% > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from the > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to get. > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and cost > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message archive, > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to > handle this? > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > http://www.paypal.com ) > regards > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > > > > > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Scott Ritchie wrote: > > Hugues > > I haven't sourced anything yet, I think I'll start with finding a company > > to produce the boards. > > As for my own plans. I've been drooling over the prospect of a wareable for > > sometime. The MIT wareable page has been really helpful, but they tend to > > use the PC104 with Intel chips. Until I saw LART on /. , I was waiting for > > someone to product a board with a Crusoe chip. > > Scott > > > > > > At 06:07 AM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi I'm in Ontario and I'm also looking for someone to built a bunch of > > >these puppies, let me know if you find anyone... > > > > > >I'm curious what are you planning to use these for ? > > >I'm trying to assemble a group of people for a little project of my > > >own.... > > > > > > > > >Scott Ritchie wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all > > >> I was wondering if there was anybody in the Victoria/Vancouver, BC or > > >> Seattle area building Larts or would like to? > > >> Scott > > >> > > >> -- > > >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > >> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > >> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 20:57:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07865 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:57:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07861 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:57:07 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT80045I7B3T9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:57:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01321; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:56:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <38FB3728.C8721235@inter.nl.net> To: Jurgen Kramer Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk bare boards or assembled units? -eric On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > >combo. > > Where can we sign up for one board or more? > > Greetings, > > Jurgen > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 21:04:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07907 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:04:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07903 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:04:52 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8004I37NZ8W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:04:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.63] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A15A11BF01D8; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:02:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:05:24 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FCB1F4.6B9961E0@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I belong to about 15 listserv's and this is the only one where hitting the reply-to-all button is required to communicate with the group. However, it's a matter of clicking another button, or entering another command through pine or elm. This issue is definately not a critical one and once people are educated on how to use this it requires no more effort than the other way. As for avoiding spam, I believe majordomo can be configured as an exclusive listserv whereby only members can post to it and all others get a postmaster error. Of course if you're at a friend's computer or are traveling, this can present a hassle, but for the most part I'd prefer exclusivity simply to avoid spam issues. Personally, it's not my listserv. So it's six one way or half a dozen the other... I simply appreciate the graciousness of the list owner and the unrewarded labor the owner expends on maintaining the list and if he has a preference on how the list is maintained, then it's not my possition to demand otherwise... Cheers, Mike efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > shouldn't it then be reply to the reply to address and cc the author? but > of course how do you know who / where to send the reply if the author is > not the sender or the reply to address. also, can ANYONE from anywhere > POST to this list, EVEN THOSE NOT SUBSCRIBED. This would be BAD as well > as it invites SPAMMING the list. so if only those subscribed can post, > and all subscribers (by definition) receive list traffic will the > sender/author not then receive the reply? the current setup only serves > to fill the mailboxes of the author and others with twice the necessary > volume. please consilder the above. as a user of this list I would like > to see it setup where replies go to the list. maybe this is an issue > that could/should pe put to a vote of the users of this list. I do > however respect the list owner and his final authoritative judgement in > this and other matters pretaining to how this list is run. it is, after > all his list. > > Eric Fort -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 21:23:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07948 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:23:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07944 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:23:49 +0200 Received: from smtpe.casema.net (smtpe.casema.net [195.96.96.172]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT8004NY8JOT9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:23:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 25518 invoked from network); Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:22:34 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gatekeeper2.slim) (212.64.36.208) by smtpe.casema.net with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:22:34 +0000 Received: from inter.nl.net (paragon.slim [192.168.100.26]) by gatekeeper2.slim (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05809; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:21:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:29:29 +0200 From: Jurgen Kramer Subject: Re: a small proposal To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FCB799.BF265291@inter.nl.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Fully assembled efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > bare boards or assembled units? > > -eric > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > > >combo. > > > > Where can we sign up for one board or more? > > > > Greetings, > > > > Jurgen > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 21:53:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08063 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:53:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08059 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:53:31 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8005KW9X5XZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:53:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA12263 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:46:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:47:23 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: Feature Request In-reply-to: <200004181624.SAA21794@historia.et.tudelft.nl> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000101bfa96e$ec01c960$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk If you and/or the list can agree on some rought specs on a charger I will try and do a design for it. Marc is right about all the different battery types and charging schemes but in real life they narrow down to a few if you want many cycles and fast charging. Even though Li-Ion are difficult to get (because of the mandatory protection circuit) I recomend using them for their light weight, high capacity, low self-discharge, easy charger (just need a current limited, very accurate voltage) and the fact that you only need two cells to do the job. What recharge input did you have in mind? Mains, wall-adapter, car, solar panel, another battery? Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Marc Joosen > Sent: 18 April, 2000 18:25 > To: J.D. Bakker > Cc: Derek Lassen; lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: Feature Request > > > > > > At 04:53 +0200 18-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > >I know this is late, but is it possible to include a > battery charger on the > > >KSB? > > >Maybe based on the MAX1647? > > > > The KSB is completely packed (esp. wrt. connector space). > OTOH it should be > > easy to add an external charger yourself. > > ...and besides that, what type of battery would you like to charge? > There's nickel-cadmium (NiCd), nickel-metallic-hydride > (NiMH), lithium-ion > (LiIon), and of course the good old (sealed) lead-acid > battery. Then there > are several charging schemes, some suitable for all types, > while others are > very specific. There's constant voltage, constant current > (with discharge), > delta peak with or without temperature detection or topoff... > In fact, one > of my ideas for a LART application would be a near-perfect > battery charger. > It depends on the AD/DA card that hasn't materialized yet, > and of course > some booster stage. > > Anyone want to add a fuel cell to the available plug-ins? :) > > -- > Marc > e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's > marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:05:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08114 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:05:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08110 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:05:17 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8006S2AGQ58@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:05:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.77]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:07:47 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:00:46 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> To: T Sullivan , Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00041814020508.01204@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk It would be need it it had some sort of logo, stating that this was an open hardware project item. A "LART inside" logo? On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, T Sullivan wrote: > As the wheels start turning to build LART + KSB + Ethernet boards has > anyone given any thought about packaging ? > > A slick set of skins would certainly mark LART as unique... any > industrial / graphics designers lurking who are up for the challenge ? > > Terry > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:15:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08197 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:15:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08193 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:15:42 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT80084QAY531@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:15:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from 98aacd55.ipt.aol.com (HELO phoenix) (152.170.205.85) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:11:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:04:14 +0100 From: Rodney Arne Karlsen Subject: Re: potential orders To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <015b01bfa971$d3b1b2a0$9664a8c0@phoenix> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Apparently-From: References: <00041721182402.01206@localhost.localdomain> <14588.11145.283002.300042@joanna.william.org> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi I would be interested in 1 or 2 prebuilt lart/KSB/ETH boards IF somone can provide a decent price. I am hoping for less than £200 per set. How many orders would be required for this? One other question. Is there VGA support or anyone working on it and is it possable to conect standard PCI or ISA devices too the lart via an expantion board of sum sort? Rodney Arne Karlsen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:18:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08215 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:18:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08211 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:17:59 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8006VDB1XXJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:17:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N1HD5Y; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:08:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:15:30 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: PayPal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FCC262.49D0D60E@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > I'd already been thinking of this. i'm in florida and would like a few > asembled (and tested) units). take orders - set a cutoff date and make > all orders prepaid by that date. then order and ship. > > -eric > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > > > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > > > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort of org to > > handle this? > > > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > > http://www.paypal.com ) > > regards > > Doug Moreen Sorry, I didn't notice this suggestion from Doug Moreen until he was quoted here or I would have commented sooner. PayPal is only available to United States residents. While that's not an issue for people overseas (I assume you'll be doing your own run of boards), I'm just next door in Canada (eh?). I'd rather not be locked out of buying boards made in the US because I can't use your payment method. I don't know if there will ever be a Canadian run of boards but I'll bet it won't be as soon if there is. I'd rather take advantage of the discount by ordering in larger numbers with you guys. Would you be able to offer other ways to pay? Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:18:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08231 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:18:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08227 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:18:30 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8007KUB2S2M@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:18:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.44] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A21924DD01EC; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:14:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:16:24 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Feature Request Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FCC298.366CAB38@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <000101bfa96e$ec01c960$351a10ac@reipur.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Have a 9 volt plug connect to your circuitry for the recharger/power supply to which you can plug a standard 9 volt transformer, or regulated solar panel or car adapter, etc... Then have it recharge while plugged in and run off the input power, or if not plugged in run off the batteries... Then build the circuitry as an optional module which can be attached to the LART. Mike Nicolai Mahncke wrote: > > If you and/or the list can agree on some rought specs on a charger I will try > and do a design for it. > > Marc is right about all the different battery types and charging schemes but > in real life they narrow down to a few if you want many cycles and fast > charging. > > Even though Li-Ion are difficult to get (because of the mandatory protection > circuit) I recomend using them for their light weight, high capacity, low > self-discharge, easy charger (just need a current limited, very accurate > voltage) and the fact that you only need two cells to do the job. > > What recharge input did you have in mind? Mains, wall-adapter, car, solar > panel, another battery? > > Best regards > > Nicolai Mahncke > mailto:nicolai@reipur.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:27:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08279 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:27:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08275 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:27:11 +0200 Received: from socket.house ([208.243.144.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT8008CXBHABQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:27:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by newsnipple.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:33:47 -0700 From: Adam Haberlach Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: <00041814020508.01204@localhost.localdomain>; from Doug Moreen on Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 02:00:46PM -0700 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000418133347.A22186@ricochet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> <00041814020508.01204@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 02:00:46PM -0700, Doug Moreen wrote: > It would be need it it had some sort of logo, stating that this was an open > hardware project item. > A "LART inside" logo? No "open source" project would be complete without: o. a Logo o. a Logo contest o. a Mascot o. an About Box o. competing fan/news sites (many open source projects choose to forgo coding entirely and make due with only the above items. Some merely add a CVS server) -- Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 22:28:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08294 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:28:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08290 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:28:16 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800802BJ2SW@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:28:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N1HD06; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:18:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:25:47 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FCC4CB.D597E24C@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: <38FC55A8.C1DC0B7F@envmtl.com> <00041814020508.01204@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > > It would be need it it had some sort of logo, stating that this was an open > hardware project item. > A "LART inside" logo? > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, T Sullivan wrote: > > As the wheels start turning to build LART + KSB + Ethernet boards has > > anyone given any thought about packaging ? > > > > A slick set of skins would certainly mark LART as unique... any > > industrial / graphics designers lurking who are up for the challenge ? > > > > Terry Wonderful idea! I think the actual packaging should be left up to the individual designer. The LART is so versatile that packaging requirements could vary widely depending on the application. The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be based on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - like carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next to something) for the small footprint. I have a graphic artist friend I could throw this at. I don't know if he has the time but I could ask him. We could also use something based on the logo on the LART homepage. Just my 2 cents... Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 23:02:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08464 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:02:02 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08460 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:02:01 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA04199; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:01:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:01:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004182101.XAA04199@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl, steve.lart@p2cl.demon.co.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: List admin, request to change Reply to / Cc order In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:03:13 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > shouldn't it then be reply to the reply to address and cc the author? but > of course how do you know who / where to send the reply if the author is > not the sender or the reply to address. also, can ANYONE from anywhere > POST to this list, EVEN THOSE NOT SUBSCRIBED. This would be BAD as well > as it invites SPAMMING the list. so if only those subscribed can post, > and all subscribers (by definition) receive list traffic will the > sender/author not then receive the reply? the current setup only serves > to fill the mailboxes of the author and others with twice the necessary > volume. please consilder the above. as a user of this list I would like > to see it setup where replies go to the list. maybe this is an issue > that could/should pe put to a vote of the users of this list. I do > however respect the list owner and his final authoritative judgement in > this and other matters pretaining to how this list is run. it is, after > all his list. The list is currently open because that's the easiest way for a list to work. Have a look at the linux-kernel mailing list (and all other lists at vger.rutgers.edu): open list, thousands of subscriptions, very well known, but only a single piece of spam a week (the latest is Korean/Japanese spam without proper Content-Type headers: unreadable). Email harvesters won't get a chance on the LART site, because we use the Apache rewrite features for email harvesters. If we get spam on the list, we close it and LART the spammers (remember: LART is an overloaded acronym ;-). There are lots of ways to filter out your inbox, but the best way on Unix machines is still procmail. Here is my .procmailrc to put LART messages in its own mailbox: # LART mailing list :0: * ^Sender:\ owner-lart@lart\.tudelft\.nl $HOME/Mail/lart I am subscribed to over 30 mailing lists and procmail never failed for me. If you don't want the same message in your inbox: there is an example of weeding out duplicate messages based on message IDs in the procmail manpages. Erik [not the mailing list manager] -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 23:16:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08558 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:16:35 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08554 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:16:35 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA04266; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:16:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:16:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004182116.XAA04266@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: rodney.karlsen@yahoo.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: potential orders In-Reply-To: <015b01bfa971$d3b1b2a0$9664a8c0@phoenix> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:04:14 +0100, Rodney Arne Karlsen wrote: > One other question. Is there VGA support or anyone working on it and is it > possable to conect standard PCI or ISA devices too the lart via an expantion > board of sum sort? There is a (documented?) hack to get VGA-ish video from the SA1100 LCD output. JDB designed a board for it, but it contains errors: it's a perfect 0 ohm resistor. (See? That's why we first *test* boards before we release them). The SA1100 doesn't have PCI support (thank god), so that leaves you with ISA. We currently have wild plans (but no time) to design a board around a C&T 65550, a VLB (do you remember?) SVGA chip. Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 23:23:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08606 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:23:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08602 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:23:08 +0200 Received: from marzipan.nougat.org (9.194.6.64.reflexcom.com [64.6.194.9]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800ADKE2ILK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:23:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by marzipan.nougat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12682; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:23:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Secret Asian Man Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: <38FCC4CB.D597E24C@saltspring.com> To: Varek Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be > based on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - > like carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next > to something) for the small footprint. I think the Penguin thing might not be such a great idea. I mean, this is a great flexible platform that can run anything. Personally, I'd love to see NetBSD on the little things. That's the coolest thing about the machine... It's so flexible in how you can implement it (with software AND hardware)... Just my humble opinion... cc -- Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen "I'm in love with the world, through the eyes of a girl, who's still around, the morning after." -- Elliott Smith, "Say Yes" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 18 23:45:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08716 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:45:19 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08712 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:45:18 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA04355; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:45:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:45:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004182145.XAA04355@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: adam@newsnipple.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-Reply-To: <20000418133347.A22186@ricochet.net> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:33:47 -0700, Adam Haberlach wrote: > No "open source" project would be complete without: > > o. a Logo > o. a Logo contest > o. a Mascot > o. an About Box > o. competing fan/news sites > > (many open source projects choose to forgo coding entirely and > make due with only the above items. Some merely add a CVS server) Some other open source projects leave the logo design to contest.gimp.org and ignore the contest winner (Debian, IIRC). Our logo contest was quite simple: we didn't have one and still got one contender. We asked Marc to design the LART website. He said "Cool, I'll start at once!", but didn't tell that he meant "I'll start designing a logo first". After a couple of days he came back without website but with the request for accounts on our four quad PPro machines so he could use PVM-povray and speed up the logo design. The result of his hand-coded povray image is still visible at each LART page. After he finished the logo, the first LART site prototype was finished in a single day and it just needed some minor cleanups before it went on line. So we have had a logo contest, we have a logo, and we have a competing news/fan site (Slashdot). An about box is not applicable for a piece of hardware, so that leaves us with the mascot. Oh dear. Erik -- "...which gives the server a futuristic, serverish, 'Don't touch me, or I will put a printer up your ass!', kind of look." (Nir Soffer in ASR) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 00:01:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08819 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:01:14 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08815 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:01:13 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23156; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:01:10 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004182201.AAA23156@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: varek@saltspring.com (Varek) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:01:09 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl (Linux Advanced Radio Terminal) In-Reply-To: <38FCC4CB.D597E24C@saltspring.com> from "Varek" at Apr 18, 2000 01:25:47 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > > It would be need it it had some sort of logo, stating that this was an open > > hardware project item. > > A "LART inside" logo? [snip] > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be based > on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - like > carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next to > something) for the small footprint. > > I have a graphic artist friend I could throw this at. I don't know if > he has the time but I could ask him. That would be nice! If he (or anyone else, for that matter) can come up with a rough sketch, I can probably Gimp/POVRay/whatever it into a decent form. > We could also use something based on the logo on the LART homepage. Implied appreciation noted :) If anyone wants the POVRay source to those images, please let me know. It is a bit awkward because I didn't have or even knew about the powerful features of POVRay 3.1 then, but still... And it should be a nice way to benchmark your clusterLART 8) The idea of the logo, by the way, was to indicate the massive impact the LART would have on the computing industry, and well, the world in general. You can just imagine Redmont, WA being crushed... no offense to anyone living there, of course. I think any logo should at least contain a subliminal reference to the well-known, but now overloaded meaning of the acronym LART. The LART logo contest is now officially open, even though there's no page for it (yet)! -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 00:15:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09026 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:15:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09022 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:15:44 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800CADGI6UF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:15:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.123) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:59:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:57:53 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: RE:Power supply thoughts (was RE: Feature Request) In-reply-to: <000101bfa96e$ec01c960$351a10ac@reipur.com> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000418140402.00c07c70@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <200004181624.SAA21794@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here is what I've pondered out so far: The Lower limit is a Wall wart with a long cord. A good battery should weigh nothing, take up no space, be free, and power the LART until the sun goes Nova. Well, that's the upper design limit. In between, I figure a reasonable battery pack should power the LART and its add ons as long as I can stay awake, and recharge faster than I can. The LCD I have will take between 3 and 5 Watts. Well put LART down for 2 Watts. KSB? I think a total power budget of 10 Watts (maximum) is reasonable. My LCD panel is 10.25 by 7.05. I am thinking that a plane of cells would be easy to package. A quick look at DigiKey's catalog gets the specs for some Panasonic NmH cells. I don't have any specs of Li Ion cells yet. It seems that the densest format is the 4/3 A, which is listed as 3.7 Ahr, .67 by 2.64, 6 Oz, $4.60 in hundreds qty. Two series strings in parallell of these cells yields 7.4 Ahr @ 16.8 volts (125 Whr), weighing ~3.25 pounds, and occupying a 10.56 by 4.69 by .67 space. The cost (from Digikey) would be ~$129. This would leave a 2.3 by 10.56 space behind the panel that the charger could fit into. Bigger panels would leave more space, but smaller panels would need the cells stacked somehow (or less cells :<). 125 Whr @ 10W is "only" 12 hours. Probably long enough. Especially if I get near a power source while I am snacking.... The laptop computers which I have had feature two kinds of power inputs: DC from a wall supply or DC bulk supply (car adapter) or AC from the wall supply directly in. I have grown annoyed at having to carry around and pack / unpack the wall supply to DC converter and the bulk DC adapter. I advocate a small AC input jack as well as a bulk DC input jack. So I think that there should be a boost converter that can take in Bulk DC at 12V nominal, and produce the required (guess is 18) Volts to power the charger input. And a buck converter to take in 100V to 250V AC. I figure that these converters will need to handle about 70 Watts to fast charge the battery pack (in about 2 Hours). BTW, the Maxim 1647 has a serial port to tell the LART what is going on. (s) Derek At 09:47 PM 4/18/00 +0200, you wrote: >If you and/or the list can agree on some rought specs on a charger I will try >and do a design for it. > >Marc is right about all the different battery types and charging schemes but >in real life they narrow down to a few if you want many cycles and fast >charging. > >Even though Li-Ion are difficult to get (because of the mandatory protection >circuit) I recomend using them for their light weight, high capacity, low >self-discharge, easy charger (just need a current limited, very accurate >voltage) and the fact that you only need two cells to do the job. > >What recharge input did you have in mind? Mains, wall-adapter, car, solar >panel, another battery? > > >Best regards > >Nicolai Mahncke >mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > > Behalf Of Marc Joosen > > Sent: 18 April, 2000 18:25 > > To: J.D. Bakker > > Cc: Derek Lassen; lart@lart.tudelft.nl > > Subject: Re: Feature Request > > > > > > > > > > At 04:53 +0200 18-04-2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > >I know this is late, but is it possible to include a > > battery charger on the > > > >KSB? > > > >Maybe based on the MAX1647? > > > > > > The KSB is completely packed (esp. wrt. connector space). > > OTOH it should be > > > easy to add an external charger yourself. > > > > ...and besides that, what type of battery would you like to charge? > > There's nickel-cadmium (NiCd), nickel-metallic-hydride > > (NiMH), lithium-ion > > (LiIon), and of course the good old (sealed) lead-acid > > battery. Then there > > are several charging schemes, some suitable for all types, > > while others are > > very specific. There's constant voltage, constant current > > (with discharge), > > delta peak with or without temperature detection or topoff... > > In fact, one > > of my ideas for a LART application would be a near-perfect > > battery charger. > > It depends on the AD/DA card that hasn't materialized yet, > > and of course > > some booster stage. > > > > Anyone want to add a fuel cell to the available plug-ins? :) > > > > -- > > Marc > > e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's > > marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 00:59:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09269 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:59:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09265 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:59:37 +0200 Received: from wzdd.lardcave.net (wzdd.lardcave.net [203.27.67.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800E37IJ88Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:59:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (wzdd@localhost) by wzdd.lardcave.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00854 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:59:26 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:59:26 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: <38FCC4CB.D597E24C@saltspring.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: wzdd.lardcave.net: wzdd owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be based > on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - like > carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next to > something) for the small footprint. Tux carrying a large baseball bat? Perhaps this is a too heavy-handed approach to acronym overloading. :) -- Nicholas (NEW: wzdd@lardcave.net, DEFUNCT: wzdd@tig.com.au) http://www.lardcave.net Same age I see? Mail me no later than Friday. - Friendsnoop -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:04:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09483 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:04:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09479 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:04:51 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800E75IS18Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:04:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6 [206.191.0.248]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17591; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26595; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:52:07 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Secret Asian Man Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FCE717.8183CC46@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Secret Asian Man wrote: > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > > > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be > > based on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - > > like carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next > > to something) for the small footprint. > > I think the Penguin thing might not be such a great idea. I mean, this is > a great flexible platform that can run anything. Personally, I'd love to > see NetBSD on the little things. That's the coolest thing about the > machine... It's so flexible in how you can implement it (with software AND > hardware)... Ok, a branding logo is certainly one aspect of packaging - wasn't quite all that I had in mind but I'll go with the flow :-) Consequently, I'll stick my neck out to start the ball rolling - I threw this to JD a little while ago to possibly depict a LARTcluster project and I'll given it another wack here, doesn't quite capture all that is LART but what the hell.. [Image] -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:08:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09509 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:08:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09505 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:08:56 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800E1GIYUL1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:08:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6 [206.191.0.248]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18255; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27029; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:56:07 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Secret Asian Man , Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FCE807.57B8F930@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B968A1C6908CCE27E38727BE" X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38FCE717.8183CC46@envmtl.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B968A1C6908CCE27E38727BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK let me try enclosing the jpeg this time... mea culpa T Sullivan wrote: > Secret Asian Man wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > > > > > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be > > > based on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - > > > like carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next > > > to something) for the small footprint. > > > > I think the Penguin thing might not be such a great idea. I mean, this is > > a great flexible platform that can run anything. Personally, I'd love to > > see NetBSD on the little things. That's the coolest thing about the > > machine... It's so flexible in how you can implement it (with software AND > > hardware)... > > Ok, a branding logo is certainly one aspect of packaging - wasn't quite all > that I had in mind but I'll go with the flow :-) Consequently, I'll stick my > neck out to start the ball rolling - I threw this to JD a little while ago to > possibly depict a LARTcluster project and I'll given it another wack here, > doesn't quite capture all that is LART but what the hell.. > > [Image] --------------B968A1C6908CCE27E38727BE Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Reaktor.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Reaktor.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAMCAgMCAgMDAwMEAwMEBQgFBQQEBQoHBwYIDAoM DAsKCwsNDhIQDQ4RDgsLEBYQERMUFRUVDA8XGBYUGBIUFRT/2wBDAQMEBAUEBQkFBQkUDQsN FBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBT/wAAR CAETAUADASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:13:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09531 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:13:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09527 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:13:30 +0200 Received: from sand6.global.net.uk (sand6.global.net.uk [195.147.246.105]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800E1LJ6HLG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:13:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p1ds03a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.227.30] helo=rentbert) by sand6.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12hhC0-0006di-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:14:04 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:09:21 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: stupid idea..maybe=) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002901bfa98b$80ee1c60$87bdfea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFA993.82F76040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFA993.82F76040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I could be being very stupid but here goes anyway=3D) Would it not be possible to make a hardware FPU/FP Emulator and then = modify the FP Emulator(software) which exists already so that it can use this FP EMU hardware if it is = available. this might help or it may just be a silly idea i dont know, tell me what u think! Perhapes it could be an hardware add-on that u only use when u need = better FP calc times etc. maybe even hot swapable=3D) -Raphael P.S. has any one in wales, uk. built one of these because i would love to = take alook at one=3D) and have not got the parts i need to build it yet myself=3D( ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFA993.82F76040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I could be being very stupid but here goes=20 anyway=3D)
 
Would it not be possible to make a hardware FPU/FP = Emulator=20 and then modify the FP Emulator(software)
which exists already so that it can use this FP EMU = hardware=20 if it is available. this might help or it may just
be a silly idea i dont know, tell me what u=20 think!
 
Perhapes it could be an hardware add-on that u only = use when u=20 need better FP calc times etc. maybe even hot
swapable=3D)
 
-Raphael
 
P.S.
 
has any one in wales, uk. built one of these because = i would=20 love to take alook at one=3D) and have not got the
parts i need to build it yet=20 myself=3D(
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFA993.82F76040-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:16:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09562 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:16:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09558 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:16:49 +0200 Received: from falcon.ugwarehouse.org (falcon.ugwarehouse.org [216.254.59.186]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800E2FJBYLG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:16:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from proteus (helo=localhost) by falcon.ugwarehouse.org with local-smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12hhDy-0005ME-00; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:16:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:16:06 -0700 (PDT) From: The Proteus Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: To: Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Tux carrying a large baseball bat? Like the Brute! KMFMS logo? :-) That would be a good logo, if we could license it from the guy that runs that site.... www.kmfms.com The Proteus - - - T h e U n d e r g r o u n d W a r e h o u s e - - - - - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - - - h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g / - ------- On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale wrote: > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > > > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be based > > on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - like > > carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next to > > something) for the small footprint. > > Tux carrying a large baseball bat? Perhaps this is a too heavy-handed > approach to acronym overloading. :) > > -- > > Nicholas (NEW: wzdd@lardcave.net, DEFUNCT: wzdd@tig.com.au) > http://www.lardcave.net > > Same age I see? Mail me no later than Friday. > - Friendsnoop > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:28:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09598 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:28:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09594 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:28:34 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT800E64JVHLG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:28:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:36 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:35 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Embedded Processor Watch: Issue #95 (fwd) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, "utility account for group.pleb " , sa1100-linux@dec.pa.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk An interesting note on an ARM clone (compatible) processor. They were offering free samples/docs and support for developing boards using their chip a while ago but never got back to me. Enjoy, Adam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:01:31 -0500 From: halfhill@mdr.cahners.com To: Embedded Processor Watch Subject: Embedded Processor Watch: Issue #95 Embedded Processor Watch ----------------------------------------------------------------- Issue #95 Embedded Processor Watch April 18, 2000 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Senior Editor: Tom R. Halfhill, mailto:halfhill@mdr.cahners.com To unsubscribe, mailto:remove-embedded@list.MDRonline.com To subscribe, mailto:join-embedded@list.MDRonline.com In This Issue: *** ARM Wrestles picoTurbo in Court *** QED's RM7000A Gets Faster, Cooler *** Tidbits: Motorola Licenses M-Core to Japanese *** Tidbits: Patriot Scientific Design Win -- Caliper Pig *** Search Microprocessor Report Online! *** Industry Resources: Embedded Processor Forum June 12-16 *** Industry Resources: Microprocessor Forum Call for Proposals *** About Embedded Processor Watch and Microprocessor Watch *** ARM Wrestles picoTurbo in Court By Tom R. Halfhill PicoTurbo, a two-year-old startup based in Milpitas, Calif., has a new twist on ARM: a family of embedded-processor cores that's compatible with the ARM architecture. Indeed, the cores are apparently too compatible for ARM, which has filed a patent-infringement lawsuit against picoTurbo in U.S. District Court in San Jose. ARM alleges that picoTurbo infringes three of ARM's U.S. patents. One patent describes shadow registers that temporarily store the contents of data registers during exception processing. The other two patents are related to ARM's Thumb instructions -- a subset of the normal 32-bit instruction set that uses 16-bit instruction words for greater code density. PicoTurbo maintains that its cores do not infringe on ARM's patents, because they either don't perform the patented functions or perform similar functions in different ways, with an independently designed "clean room" microarchitecture. PicoTurbo's pT-100, pT-110, and pT-120 cores are based on a similar design with several variations. Like the ARM9, they are 32-bit uniscalar RISC processors with five-stage pipelines and fully static cores. To address different segments of the market, picoTurbo removed some elements from the pT-110 to produce the lower-end pT-100, and it added some features to produce the higher-end pT-120. But even the pT-100 retains a 32-bit Wallace-tree multiplier, a separate Thumb decoder, a 32-bit barrel shifter, and power-management logic. It's easy to see why ARM is giving picoTurbo the cold shoulder. Millions of dollars are at stake for both companies. ARM feels compelled to defend its hard-won market share against an invader that is undercutting its license fees and royalties. PicoTurbo stands to gain a lucrative chunk of the market by riding the coattails of the popular ARM architecture. We don't expect this case to be settled anytime soon. (The full version of this article is available online to Microprocessor Report subscribers at http://www.MDRonline.com/mpr/h/2000/0417/141601.html). -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 01:38:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09665 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:38:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09661 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:38:42 +0200 Received: from dgesmtp01.wcom.com (dgesmtp01.wcom.com [199.249.16.16]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800EMBKCH8Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:38:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pmismtp03.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.38]) by firewall.mcit.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #42260) with ESMTP id <0FT8007J0JQ0WD@firewall.mcit.com> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:25:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp03.wcomnet.com by pmismtp03.wcomnet.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #42258) with ESMTP id <0FT800M01JPH1K@pmismtp03.wcomnet.com>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:24:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omzmta02.mcit.com ([166.37.214.8]) by pmismtp03.wcomnet.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #42258) with ESMTP id <0FT800IDRJPGET@pmismtp03.wcomnet.com>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:24:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rccz741 ([166.35.150.207]) by omzmta02.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 120) with SMTP id <20000418232511.CGPH22622@[166.35.150.207]>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:25:11 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:23:00 -0500 From: "Ralph Green, Jr." Subject: Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] In-reply-to: <00041712122201.11476@localhost.localdomain> X-Sender: Ralph.Green@pop.mcit.com To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3.0.5.32.20000418182300.00a8b7e0@pop.mcit.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> <000701bfa884$1a476820$0100007f@localdomain> <38FB3B98.81A52E5F@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Howdy, I am quite interested, and I look forward to programming on one, but I am not capable of putting one together. If you are taking names for assembled boards, put me down for one. Good day, Ralph Green, Jr. At 11:14 AM 4/17/00 -0700, Doug Moreen wrote: >Michael and other people in the US (and Canada) who want inexpensive LART parts; >so far I count eight people who are interested -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 02:35:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09883 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:35:46 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09879 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:35:45 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24054; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:35:44 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004190035.CAA24054@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Feature Request To: nicolai@reipur.com (Nicolai Mahncke) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:35:43 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <000101bfa96e$ec01c960$351a10ac@reipur.com> from "Nicolai Mahncke" at Apr 18, 2000 09:47:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > If you and/or the list can agree on some rought specs on a charger I will try > and do a design for it. Ok, here are my thoughts on this: a module with the same footprint as the other boards, i.e. 10x7cm, containing the battery and the charger (both are linked by the battery requirements, so it doesn't make much sense to keep them apart). Currently, the mainboard isn't designed to have a power module stacked on it, and it will likely be between the KSB and a memory expansion board. This means that the connection to the mainboard has to be in the form of wires outside the stack of pcb's (beware of stack overflows :) On the software side: it would be nice to have at least an indication of the battery status, if not complete control over the charging process. I think we can do without APM/ACPI, which is a disaster in itself -- I've got a ThinkPad 600X, that should say enough. > Marc is right about all the different battery types and charging schemes but > in real life they narrow down to a few if you want many cycles and fast > charging. ...and it also depends on the type of application. I can imagine situations where the self-discharge of a NiCd cell would be more than the current drain by the LART: a datalogger/controller in a hot location for example. > Even though Li-Ion are difficult to get (because of the mandatory protection > circuit) I recomend using them for their light weight, high capacity, low > self-discharge, easy charger (just need a current limited, very accurate > voltage) and the fact that you only need two cells to do the job. Agreed. I haven't found anything for sale but cellphone and laptop batteries, and the pages http://www.sanyobatteries.net/Lithium-ion.html http://www.gpbatteries.com/lithium.htm look a bit sad... Any other links? There are enough charge controllers and protection chips available, but without actual cells they're not much use. > What recharge input did you have in mind? Mains, wall-adapter, car, solar > panel, another battery? Well, ideally it should work on the same range of supply voltages the mainboard accepts, but it may be too much to have step-up convertor on the module. Using a linear regulator could defeat the advantage of low-power LART altogether, so it should most likely be a switching charger. Let's say anything over 5V, ac as well as dc, should be acceptable? Maybe you need a current limiter if you also want to be able to use solar cells, to get them to operate at max power. North Pole, here we come! (during the 6-month day, at least :) -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 02:50:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09946 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:50:08 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09942 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:50:07 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24123; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:50:03 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004190050.CAA24123@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: t.sullivan@envmtl.com (T Sullivan) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:50:03 +0200 (MEST) Cc: cchen@nougat.org (Secret Asian Man), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (Linux Advanced Radio Terminal) In-Reply-To: <38FCE717.8183CC46@envmtl.com> from "T Sullivan" at Apr 18, 2000 06:52:07 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Ok, a branding logo is certainly one aspect of packaging - wasn't quite all > that I had in mind but I'll go with the flow :-) Consequently, I'll stick my > neck out to start the ball rolling - I threw this to JD a little while ago to > possibly depict a LARTcluster project and I'll given it another wack here, > doesn't quite capture all that is LART but what the hell.. Ummm... nice picture of a nuclear reactor, but we are planning to generate as little heat as possible -- in the processor that is, the person being LARTed should experience a considerable increase in temperature :) Suggestions are welcome though. -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 03:06:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA10006 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 03:06:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA10002 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 03:06:17 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800GL4OEF25@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 03:06:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02646; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:05:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <38FCB799.BF265291@inter.nl.net> To: Jurgen Kramer Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk please put me down for at least 1 lart+ksb+ethernet(4 port would be nice) price pending. lower cost = more units. I also have a few interested friends. any one interested in a group purchase of lcd displays? Eric On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > Fully assembled > > efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > > bare boards or assembled units? > > > > -eric > > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > > > >combo. > > > > > > Where can we sign up for one board or more? > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Jurgen > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 04:12:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA10217 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:12:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA10213 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:12:40 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800H52RH2N8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:12:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6 [206.191.0.248]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08318; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15674; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:00:00 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Marc Joosen , Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FD1320.B20465FB@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <200004190050.CAA24123@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Marc Joosen wrote: > > Ok, a branding logo is certainly one aspect of packaging - wasn't quite all > > that I had in mind but I'll go with the flow :-) Consequently, I'll stick my > > neck out to start the ball rolling - I threw this to JD a little while ago to > > possibly depict a LARTcluster project and I'll given it another wack here, > > doesn't quite capture all that is LART but what the hell.. > > Ummm... nice picture of a nuclear reactor, but we are planning to generate > as little heat as possible -- in the processor that is, the person being > LARTed should experience a considerable increase in temperature :) Hey that's why it was blue !! :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 04:57:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA10324 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:57:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA10320 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:57:37 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800HJ4TK0N8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:57:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.60] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AFD1502024E; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:54:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:56:21 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FD2055.B39AB8D2@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm interested, though I have found only some surplus sites for lcd boards and we'd probably need to have a bunch of interested parties to purchase one directly from the manufacturer... Doug is keeping a list - get your friends to log their requests to so we can keep a decently close approximation of the number of boards requested. Be aware that this is a gathering of interested parties - I doubt the boards will be ready soon - Lart has yet another revision coming out, the KSB is still under evaluation and debuging and I don't think the eth has been put together yet. But it looks like things are coming along relatively quickly - I optimistically hope to have a few finished, revised and proven boards in the next few months - maybe a Christmas present to myself... :) I'd like to have a few of the current or soon to be current boards to play with and develop my project - but I really look forward to the "stable" version. Certainly by then we'll easily have enough commitments to order 100+ boards - maybe more... I wonder if this project is open enough to have additional help in the development of the boards. Perhaps a to-do list with invitations to help would be appropriate? Mike efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > please put me down for at least 1 lart+ksb+ethernet(4 port would be nice) > price pending. lower cost = more units. I also have a few interested > friends. any one interested in a group purchase of lcd displays? > > Eric > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 05:39:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10461 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:39:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10457 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:39:19 +0200 From: marcus.giles@deltagold.com.au Received: from phoenix.deltagold.com.au ([203.47.0.66]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800I6MVHFP1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:39:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au (localmail.kbgm.deltagold.com.au [203.38.127.2]) by phoenix.deltagold.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25673 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:58:45 +0800 Received: by kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) id 482568C6.001385A3 ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:13 +0800 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:08 +0800 Subject: KSB? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <482568C6.001383F7.00@kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: DELTAGOLD Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was wondering, the IDE port on the KSB board does that support LARGE H/D's? or CDROM's? I get a big smile on my face when I think of a 20 odd gig h/d playing mp3's in my car.. :-) "Geek for life" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 05:45:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10488 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:45:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10484 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:45:52 +0200 Received: from elysium.uwa.edu.au (elysium.uwa.edu.au [130.95.128.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT800I8CVSBP1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:45:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.17]) by elysium.uwa.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA04516 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:40:41 +0800 (WST) Received: (from nick@localhost) by mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id LAA00901 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:39:29 +0800 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:39:24 +0800 From: Nick Bannon Subject: Re: stupid idea..maybe=) In-reply-to: <002901bfa98b$80ee1c60$87bdfea9@rentbert>; from rgray@cubicle2.freeserve.co.uk on Wed, Apr 19, 2000 at 12:09:21AM +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000419113923.A649@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i References: <002901bfa98b$80ee1c60$87bdfea9@rentbert> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, Apr 19, 2000 at 12:09:21AM +0100, Raphael Gray wrote: > I could be being very stupid but here goes anyway=) > > Would it not be possible to make a hardware FPU/FP Emulator and then > modify the FP Emulator(software) which exists already so that it can > use this FP EMU hardware if it is available. this might help or it > may just be a silly idea i dont know, tell me what u think! [...] Not at all - you have a nice RISC CPU where you can write software rather than silicon-consuming microcode to do complicated procedures. Why not have a nice RISC FP unit which implements the basic load/store/add/multiply/divide/overflow stuff and uses software to do complex trigonometry functions, etc, built on those? It's such a good idea that this is exactly what the FPA10 and FPA11 are - Floating Point Accelerators for ARM chips. You still use FP Emulation software to do the more complex stuff. What's the downside? Well, the FPA10 runs at 25MHz and the FPA11 runs at 33MHz - they're for ARM3's and ARM7's more than StrongARMs. They speed up FP intensive code by 10-50 times (eg raytracing), but the whole exception catching, emulator calling, co-processor utilising system is considerably slower than doing everything in one package - FP performance is still much worse than a PentiumII or Alpha. It's easier, most of the time, to simply avoid FP. It can be emulated if required, but most of what you want to do on an embedded system simply doesn't need it. If you just need fractional numbers, fixed point arithmetic works perfectly well and very quickly in most situations. (the ARM barrel shifter helps) Nick. -- Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because nick@it.net.au | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 08:19:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10865 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:19:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10861 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:19:16 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900KI32W2VQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:19:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (ss124.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.145]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N1H3BR; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:09:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:22:39 -0700 From: varek Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Secret Asian Man Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FD50AF.3E6F231D@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Secret Asian Man wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Varek wrote: > > > The logo, however, is a great idea! I personally think should be > > based on the penguin somehow but with something to distinguish it - > > like carrying a suitcase for portability or make him very small (next > > to something) for the small footprint. > > I think the Penguin thing might not be such a great idea. I mean, this is > a great flexible platform that can run anything. Personally, I'd love to > see NetBSD on the little things. That's the coolest thing about the > machine... It's so flexible in how you can implement it (with software AND > hardware)... It is definately a flexible product. I just thought of the penguin because of the "Linux" part of LART. Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 08:33:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10905 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:33:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10901 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:33:03 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900M213J15C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:33:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (ss124.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.145]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N1H3GD; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:23:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:36:27 -0700 From: varek Subject: Logos To: LART list Message-id: <38FD53EB.E4E80A37@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi guys and gals, just some thoughts before I go to bed... Regarding the "REAKTOR": Wow! 'Cool' idea. I like what your doing with the colour. My only criticism would be that logos are typically not quite so nebulous in shape - meaning most have a more discernable shape. I like it though... Regarding Penguin with a bat: Funny! And good, from our perspective. But are we looking for something that will be able to generate some public recognition. The Penguin, cute as he is, is still a fairly obscure symbol to the rest of the world. Then again maybe it doesn't matter if people get it or not... (Then again maybe I'm just getting too tired to know) I have an idea too but I don't have time to draw it right now: Blue square, "LART" in red letters with a yellow (white?) lightning bolt behind the letters. As I picture it I suspect that I'm stealing something from somewhere... Oh well, I'll try to draw it in the next couple of days. G'night folks Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 08:42:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10945 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:42:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10941 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:42:32 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT900M2P3YVI3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:42:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ac87577c.ipt.aol.com (HELO phoenix) (172.135.87.124) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:37:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:21:36 +0100 From: Rodney Arne Karlsen Subject: Modual Development To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <006901bfa9c9$4b6082c0$9664a8c0@phoenix> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Apparently-From: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all What sort of add on moduals are being worked on at the moment and what are ppl planing on working on in the future? I have some ideas from a wearable computing point of view, but I don't want to try and reinvent the wheel if somone else has allready started on a similar project. Thanks Rodney Arne Karlsen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 09:38:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11036 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:38:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11032 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:38:51 +0200 Received: from relay.ccs.muc.debis.de (relay.ccs.muc.debis.de [53.140.125.65]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9002GL6KP89@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:38:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by relay.ccs.muc.debis.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) id JAA20344 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:31:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown(53.144.41.237) by relay.ccs.muc.debis.de via smap (V2.1+anti-relay+anti-spam) id xma020264; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:31:08 +0200 Received: from relay.otn.eurocopter.de (iapetus.otn.eurocopter.de [53.144.12.4]) by ec4007.don.eurocopter.de with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JFL4Q7CD; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:07 +0200 Received: from egypt.otn.eurocopter.de (egypt.otn.eurocopter.de [53.144.30.1]) by relay.otn.eurocopter.de (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01095 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from Eurocopter.De (chad [53.144.30.12]) by egypt.otn.eurocopter.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18754 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:31:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:54 +0200 From: "Ralf D. Werner" Subject: Re: Logos To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Ralf.Werner@Eurocopter.De Message-id: <38FD60AE.A4BB01E9@Eurocopter.De> Organization: Eurocopter Deutschland MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FD53EB.E4E80A37@saltspring.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi there, I just happened to trash the latest mailing list entries in my local box, so don't flame me for this ideas if they came to someone else's mind some minutes before: If you advertise the LART as sort of powerful LINUX engine with low power consumption, why not make a "green" or "energy saver" logo? Maybe an animated logo of the Tux penguin turning around ... with a battery mounted to his back (like the Energizer bunny ad). Or how about the slight askew slogan: "SOLARIS runs on AC powered SUNs - LINUX runs on solar powered LARTs" (or many other variations of this pun). Cheers, Ralf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 09:48:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11074 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:48:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11070 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:48:04 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9002BU701QL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:48:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12hp91-000Nik-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:43:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:44:29 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: EMC issues / liability To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, all. Has anyone given any thought to the EMC / CE side of this work- is the plan to try to declare the LART as a component of any larger system, and to have the user certify the finished system? I'd hate to see anyone get in trouble for this... (and don't have a good enough knowledge of the CE regs to know the answers) - it's unlikely to be enough to ship the product with the gnu "no warranty" Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 10:38:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11230 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:38:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11226 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:38:17 +0200 Received: from orange.csi.cam.ac.uk (orange.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.77]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT90064E9BSRD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:38:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from dac33 (helo=localhost) by orange.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 12hplq-0003Ht-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:38 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:38 +0100 (BST) From: "" Subject: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) X-Sender: dac33@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > [cc-ed to the LART list] > > >you say the itsy boys had doom running... > >i have read little about the itsy, but one of the things i read > >was that if there was no input activity, the rest of the itsy > >would actually shutdown and keep only the display unit alive. > >how would a game which needs a constant refresh run something like > >doom? > > Hmm, I find it hard to imagine that you'd play a game of Doom with no input > activity :) Seriously, I expect the shutdown behaviour is switchable. > The SA1100 has autoshutdown built in to extend battery life. The Itsy had an additional chip to keep the screen alive even when auto shutdown on the SA1100 screen driver commenced. If the SA1100 continually received commands to write to screen (as in a good game of doom) then there would be no shutdown and no problem. I guess with the LART if you waited in a corner with no cyber-demons chasing you and you didn't move then your screen would go blank eventually, this would not need to occur with the Itsy. David Crawley ====================================================================== Yes I am a physicist, so I suppose that makes me mad! Magdalene College Cambridge University CB3 0AG England -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 11:10:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11292 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:10:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11288 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:10:21 +0200 Received: from mail2.netcologne.de (mail2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.103]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9008EDAT8OA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:10:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from colin.anarcho.net (dial-ra-nc1-28.netcologne.de [195.14.244.28]) by mail2.netcologne.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16012; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:58:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from baer@localhost) by colin.anarcho.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03057; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:58:42 +0200 X-URL: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:58:41 +0200 From: Thomas Renard X-Face: 43Gd&$n()k_953x*S*S$KvhoZ5HRR+\?HpR1~dG@&6B[/EKmoE.5mYc3v#`Ahf[{ekw}SL9 g|pT#VQ8a.~3xURG\j?G@roW>lq*V323P[~3fZu6.~DxATbN&IGSABZ*aQ*:1XPF-i[m"h.z&S[k3J a[.Rfdjk9(?uQ$CQ=-& Subject: Re: Feature Request In-reply-to: Marc Joosen's message of "Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:35:43 +0200 (MEST)" To: Marc Joosen Cc: nicolai@reipur.com (Nicolai Mahncke), lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: Organization: The Anarcho Net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.070099 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.99) XEmacs/21.1 (Canyonlands) Lines: 29 References: <200004190035.CAA24054@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk * Marc Joosen writes: > Ok, here are my thoughts on this: a module with the same footprint > as the > other boards, i.e. 10x7cm, containing the battery and the charger > (both are linked by the battery requirements, so it doesn't make > much sense to keep them apart). Currently, the mainboard isn't > designed to have a power module stacked on it, and it will likely be > between the KSB and a memory expansion board. This means that the > connection to the mainboard has to be in the form of wires outside > the stack of pcb's (beware of stack overflows :) > On the software side: it would be nice to have at least an > indication of > the battery status, if not complete control over the charging > process. I think we can do without APM/ACPI, which is a disaster in > itself -- I've got a ThinkPad 600X, that should say enough. > [...] How much space will be left on the 10x7 board for other stuff? Maybe the single Ethernet can be put on it? Maybe some LCD2VGA-Converter?? I ask for this because IMHO it would be nice to have a machine with all needed features (what is really needed) on three boards and about 35mm. Thomas -- Thomas Renard Ich glaub, Atomstrom Thomas.Renard@smail.uni-koeln.de ist gelb -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 11:30:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11380 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:30:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11376 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:30:26 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9009PXBQPVN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:30:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12hqoT-000Ntw-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:30:25 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:31:23 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FD7CEB.13D39A24@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > The SA1100 has autoshutdown built in to extend battery life. Not quite- the SA1100 has some power down modes that the OS can invoke. The SA1100 certainly won't just shut down because it's bored... Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 11:33:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11435 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11431 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:46 +0200 Received: from marzipan.nougat.org (9.194.6.64.reflexcom.com [64.6.194.9]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9009LOBW87X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by marzipan.nougat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13935; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Secret Asian Man Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-reply-to: <38FD50AF.3E6F231D@saltspring.com> To: varek Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, varek wrote: > It is definately a flexible product. I just thought of the penguin > because of the "Linux" part of LART. Yes, not to get into a flame war, but, oh whatever :) I just think the whole penguin thing is a bit overblown. However, the designer of the penguin really hit it big by including a large white space in the middle so you could but all sorts of corporate logos on it... :) -- Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen To envision the joy, at 6am, of pulling thousands of spam emails out of a clogged mail queue, imagine pulling a cat out of a toilet. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 12:02:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11667 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:02:25 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11663 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:02:24 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA07292; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:02:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:02:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191002.MAA07292@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: marcus.giles@deltagold.com.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: KSB? In-Reply-To: <482568C6.001383F7.00@kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:33:08 +0800, marcus.giles@deltagold.com.au wrote: > I was wondering, the IDE port on the KSB board does that support LARGE H/D's? > or CDROM's? Yes. I currently have a 2.5 inch 4GB hard disk lying on my desk, but bigger should be no problem. The only difficulty you might get is that the 30+ GB harddisks are not yet in 2.5 inch form factor, so you should buy/make a 2.5 --> 3.5 converter. Note that the IDE controller will only do PIO, not DMA. > I get a big smile on my face when I think of a 20 odd gig h/d playing mp3's in > my car.. :-) You did have a look at http://www.empeg.com/ ? Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 12:07:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11705 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:07:12 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11701 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:07:11 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id MAA07328; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:07:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:07:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191007.MAA07328@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nick-lart@rcpt.to Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: stupid idea..maybe=) In-Reply-To: <20000419113923.A649@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:39:24 +0800, Nick Bannon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 19, 2000 at 12:09:21AM +0100, Raphael Gray wrote: >> Would it not be possible to make a hardware FPU/FP Emulator and then >> modify the FP Emulator(software) which exists already so that it can >> use this FP EMU hardware if it is available. this might help or it >> may just be a silly idea i dont know, tell me what u think! > [...] [...] > It's such a good idea that this is exactly what the FPA10 and FPA11 are > - Floating Point Accelerators for ARM chips. You still use FP Emulation > software to do the more complex stuff. > > What's the downside? Well, the FPA10 runs at 25MHz and the FPA11 runs at > 33MHz - they're for ARM3's and ARM7's more than StrongARMs. They speed up > FP intensive code by 10-50 times (eg raytracing), but the whole exception > catching, emulator calling, co-processor utilising system is considerably > slower than doing everything in one package - FP performance is still > much worse than a PentiumII or Alpha. The other downside is that the SA1100 doesn't have a co-processor bus, so you can't connect an ARM FPU. However, the original idea is not impossible, although you have to be careful that it shouldn't be slower than emulating the FPU instruction. Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 12:20:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11782 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:20:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11778 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:20:32 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900D0DE26SX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:20:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E9474816; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:20:13 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:20:13 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <200004181357.JAA22726@deimos.mars.org> To: Rob Leslie Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > Kira Brown replied: > > Depends on how good you want to make your mpeg decoder. I've done it in > > about 10% of CPU time on a 202MHz SA-110. > > Kira: very interesting. Care to elaborate? Basically: fixed point, order instructions for maximum cache utilisation, interleave writes to avoid choking the write buffer. (On RiscPC, where I did this, there's a 16MHz memory bus [I know, it sucked] so there was major gain to be made by putting writes every 25-odd instructions :-) Oh, and write the whole core in assembler. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 12:41:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11855 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:41:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11851 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:41:15 +0200 Received: from smtp2.chello.se (smtp2.chello.se [193.150.195.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900FMSF0QUL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:41:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from chello.se ([193.150.216.55]) by smtp2.chello.se (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 70acae3d5ac8b27d1dfb8564bfbfa8a7) with ESMTP id <20000419102748.VTOU27496.smtp2@chello.se> for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:27:48 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:26:28 +0200 From: David Belius Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FD89D4.131060E7@chello.se> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> <38FB827E.D7F02F7E@uswest.net> <38FC2E0D.E9554F14@chello.se> <38FC5019.9AA2012F@uswest.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I, David Belius would probolay want 1 Lart+KSB+Eth pre-soldered and built. Althought i would like a price statement first. You upload software to a lart by burning a flash, right? Does anyone know what a flash burner costs and how easy and cheap it is to build one yourself? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 12:46:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11886 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:46:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11882 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:46:17 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900G82F93Q0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:46:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABEC748D8; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:29:45 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:29:45 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: stupid idea..maybe=) In-reply-to: <002901bfa98b$80ee1c60$87bdfea9@rentbert> To: Raphael Gray Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Raphael Gray wrote: > I could be being very stupid but here goes anyway=) > > Would it not be possible to make a hardware FPU/FP Emulator and then > modify the FP Emulator(software) which exists already so that it can > use this FP EMU hardware if it is available. this might help or it may > just be a silly idea i dont know, tell me what u think! It is possible and has been done on RiscPC. However, it does not yield significant performance increases. The major reason the FPE's performance is so slow is because it has to go through the undefined instruction trap (and dump a load of cache...) in the process. You can't avoid that on SA1100- the second 1 means there's no coprocessor interface available, so you can't tightly couple hardware. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 13:40:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12033 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:40:53 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12029 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:40:52 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA07841; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:40:50 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:40:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191140.NAA07841@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: dac33@hermes.cam.ac.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:38 +0100 (BST), wrote: > The SA1100 has autoshutdown built in to extend battery life. The Itsy had No, there is no such thing as auto shutdown on the SA1100. There are power saving modes, but the OS is in control. > an additional chip to keep the screen alive even when auto shutdown on the > SA1100 screen driver commenced. If the SA1100 continually received > commands to write to screen (as in a good game of doom) then there would > be no shutdown and no problem. I guess with the LART if you waited in a The SA1100 LCD controller continuously uses DMA to put the contents of the frame buffer RAM to the LCD. If a program like Doom happens to change the frame buffer, it will be visible; if it doesn't change the frame buffer, the LCD controller will still move the contents to the LCD. > corner with no cyber-demons chasing you and you didn't move then your > screen would go blank eventually, this would not need to occur with the > Itsy. I consider this a bug rather than a feature: the first thing you want to switch off is the part that consumes the most energy: the LCD. Erik -- "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 14:23:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12216 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:23:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12211 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:23:38 +0200 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9000VNJRDEO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:23:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12htRE-000Gm8-0C for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:18:37 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:58:49 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability In-reply-to: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk>, Steve Wiseman writes >Hi, all. > Has anyone given any thought to the EMC / CE side of this work- is >the plan to try to declare the LART as a component of any larger >system, and to have the user certify the finished system? >I'd hate to see anyone get in trouble for this... (and don't have a >good enough knowledge of the CE regs to know the answers) - it's >unlikely to be enough to ship the product with the gnu "no warranty" I don't see an alternative to being a component in the UK (EU?) although maybe "test equipment" would be appropriate for prototypes. I guess I'll have a look at this sometime and review sci.engr.electrical.compliance archives I have which should give some ideas. The working basis for me shipping complete boards would be no case or PSU I reckon. I do have some interest in producing a boxed version but its not at all clear whether that would always have the right mix of features for everyone else and as soon as someone adds another board, CE rears its ugly head again. Good fun eh! Rest assured I will try to avoid getting into trouble here :) Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 14:41:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12341 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:41:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12337 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:41:16 +0200 Received: from mrq1.static.cx (N699P006.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.97.70]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT900ME9KKMKX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:41:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 18615 invoked from network); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:35:48 +0000 Received: from loopback (HELO gmx.net) (127.0.0.1) by loopback with SMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:35:48 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200 From: "Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer" Subject: strongarm smp To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FDA822.BDBEB862@gmx.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk is the strong-arm smp capable ? if yes, we could put 16 strong-arms on a full-length pci card and a desktop-beowolf is online :-) mfg mrq1 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 14:47:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12467 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:47:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12463 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:47:53 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT90031XKVR40@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:47:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12httX-000ODH-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:47:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:48:50 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FDAB32.9D337F0C@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004191140.NAA07841@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > I consider this a bug rather than a feature: the first thing you want to > switch off is the part that consumes the most energy: the LCD. Have you found http://www.kentdisplays.com/ -they only take power to make a change, otherwise, they're stable (for months...) Not sure about availablity in mass market yet, but I've seen them in proto products, and they look good. Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 15:02:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12570 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:02:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12566 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:02:24 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900312LJY40@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:02:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12hu7a-000OEc-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:02:22 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:03:21 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FDAE99.48324692@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Steve Goodwin wrote: > The working basis for me shipping complete boards would be no case or > PSU I reckon. Yes- it was the discussion about packaging that prodded my mind in this direction. > Rest assured I will try to avoid getting into trouble here :) Being a test case for open-source hardware Vs CE legislation strikes me as a lot of no-fun :( Out of interest, does anyone on this list have easy access to an EMC test chamber? - I see a lot more softies than hardware people... Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 15:30:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12718 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:30:52 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12714 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:30:51 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id PAA08590; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191330.PAA08590@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mrq1@gmx.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-Reply-To: <38FDA822.BDBEB862@gmx.net> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > is the strong-arm smp capable ? No. > if yes, we could put 16 strong-arms on a full-length pci card > and a desktop-beowolf is online :-) The nice thing about a beowolf cluster is that is doesn't need SMP, just some kind of interconnect. Silly plan n+1 is to design such an interconnect board. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 16:12:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13923 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:12:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13919 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:12:55 +0200 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.ar51.net [208.225.80.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9008LMOTHX5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:12:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-172.ar51.net [208.225.80.172]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20746; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:56:52 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:56:32 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:56:30 -0400 From: Jeff Sutherland Subject: RE: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: "'Steve Wiseman'" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Erik Mouw wrote: > > > I consider this a bug rather than a feature: the first > thing you want to > > switch off is the part that consumes the most energy: the LCD. > > Have you found http://www.kentdisplays.com/ > > -they only take power to make a change, otherwise, they're stable (for > months...) > Not sure about availablity in mass market yet, but I've seen them in > proto products, and they look good. > > Steve The technology of these displays is improving but it's not quite suitable for a hand-held product. LCD displays based on Polymer stabilized cholesteric liquid crystal (referred to as PSC) materials exhibit a bi-stable characteristic, where the display can be updated and power removed, leaving the image intact. (I have one at home which has retained its image for over 3 years). Since there's no polarizer film, and the tolerance of the glass spacing is considerably looser than conventional TN materials, theoretically they should be significantly less expensive to manufacture. Also, there's ongoing research at the Liquid Crystal Institute at Kent State University (http://www.lci.kent.edu) on making flexible plastic displays based on PSC materials. Fundamental issues facing widespread deployment of these kinds of displays (last time I checked anyway, YMMV) are: 1. Power. Switching states requires voltages significantly higher than conventional TN or STN materials. 2. Speed (although this has improved considerably over the last few years). Update rates per row are in the millisecond range; vga screen size frame rates are much lower than conventional materials. 3. Custom driver electronics with high voltage outputs required. 4. The usual problems with getting research turned into practical applications. Kent Displays has had some success in niche markets where power is not as much of a concern as viewability or the bi-stable characteristic. BTW since these displays employ Bragg reflection instead of 1/4 wave rotation/polarization their contrast and viewing angle characteristics are much better than conventional LCD displays. I still have hope for creating a plastic display that's only 0.015" (0.38mm) thick and requires essentially no power, but we're not quite there yet. I have no affiliation with LCI or Kent Displays (although I am a KSU alum -shameless plug), just an interest in small low-power devices. //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 16:22:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14016 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:22:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14012 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:22:20 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT9009ORP8W0I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:22:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.127]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15584; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:18 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:49:31 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: "" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004501bfaa0a$48616300$7f1e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >The SA1100 has autoshutdown built in to extend battery life. The Itsy had >an additional chip to keep the screen alive even when auto shutdown on the >SA1100 screen driver commenced. If the SA1100 continually received >commands to write to screen (as in a good game of doom) then there would >be no shutdown and no problem. I guess with the LART if you waited in a >corner with no cyber-demons chasing you and you didn't move then your >screen would go blank eventually, this would not need to occur with the >Itsy. well, even with no cyber-demons chasing (and no updates), we still can call an update to keep the lart alive (if it is necessary). besides, we're doing quake :-) - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 16:35:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14108 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:35:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14104 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:35:45 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900B57PST3L@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:35:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.127]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29767; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:58:40 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:02:49 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: Erik Mouw , dac33@hermes.cam.ac.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <009201bfaa0c$265b2460$7f1e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> an additional chip to keep the screen alive even when auto shutdown on the >> SA1100 screen driver commenced. If the SA1100 continually received >> commands to write to screen (as in a good game of doom) then there would >> be no shutdown and no problem. I guess with the LART if you waited in a a good game of doom will not write to the screen buffer unless an update is needed. > >The SA1100 LCD controller continuously uses DMA to put the contents of the >frame buffer RAM to the LCD. If a program like Doom happens to change the >frame buffer, it will be visible; if it doesn't change the frame buffer, >the LCD controller will still move the contents to the LCD. > what bothers me is that if the CPU is switched off when there is no updates to the frame buffer, the game engine won't run. so the simulation stops. consider a situation where a demo runs. this is time critical. simulation can't stop. if for example, during making the demo, the player stops moving and there is no change in the buffer and hence no update to the output buffer. the engine will hang as the game engine is shut off (cpu is off).. and cannot generate any more updates. >> corner with no cyber-demons chasing you and you didn't move then your >> screen would go blank eventually, this would not need to occur with the >> Itsy. > >I consider this a bug rather than a feature: the first thing you want to >switch off is the part that consumes the most energy: the LCD. > i would rather have all sub system shutdown controlled by software than automatically done. - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 16:49:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14615 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:49:18 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14611 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:49:17 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id QAA09182; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:48:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:48:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191448.QAA09182@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: muks@hd2.dot.net.in Cc: dac33@hermes.cam.ac.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) In-Reply-To: <009201bfaa0c$265b2460$7f1e36ca@muks> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:02:49 +0530, Mukund Iyer wrote: > what bothers me is that if the CPU is switched off when there is no > updates to the frame buffer, the game engine won't run. so the simulation > stops. As I already said before: it is up to the OS to decide if the CPU is switched off at all[1], The SA1100 has no automatic switch off logic. Erik [1] Or better: it is up to a userland tool to decide to switch off the CPU, because policy belongs in userland, not in the kernel. -- Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes" use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 17:02:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14705 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:02:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14701 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:02:24 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900CDIR3YU9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:02:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N1HSMA; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:53:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:59:54 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Secret Asian Man Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FDC9EA.EE9E0A45@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Secret Asian Man wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, varek wrote: > > > It is definately a flexible product. I just thought of the penguin > > because of the "Linux" part of LART. > > Yes, not to get into a flame war, but, oh whatever :) No no no no! I'm sorry if I was misunderstood - I'm nowhere near a flame war. I wasn't trying to pull an attitude with you. I was just telling you why the penguin popped into whats left of my brain. That's all... > I just think the whole penguin thing is a bit overblown. However, the > designer of the penguin really hit it big by including a large white space > in the middle so you could but all sorts of corporate logos on it... :) I totally understand your sentiment here. I have no particular attachment to the penguin, not for the LART anyway. He is cute though... ;) I really liked Ralph D. Werner's ideas actually. Something green I think fits the LART very well and the tag line had me giggling at my desk this morning (my co-workers have long stopped wondering about my odd behaviour). EXCERPT: "Ralf D. Werner" wrote: > If you advertise the LART as sort of powerful LINUX engine with low power > consumption, why not make a "green" or "energy saver" logo? Maybe an animated > logo of the Tux penguin turning around ... with a battery mounted to his back > (like the Energizer bunny ad). > > Or how about the slight askew slogan: "SOLARIS runs on AC powered SUNs - LINUX > runs on solar powered LARTs" (or many other variations of this pun). I would really hate to think you didn't bring some criticism or idea to the group because I can't pay more attention when I proof my emails. Please, this group should promote the free flow of ideas and you should feel free to post them. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding. (I really shouldn't post when I've been up 18 of the last 24 hours should I?) Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 17:11:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14741 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:11:44 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14737 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:11:44 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900D5PRJFVA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:11:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12hw8g-000ORZ-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:11:38 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:12:37 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FDCCE5.CF839819@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <009201bfaa0c$265b2460$7f1e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mukund Iyer wrote: > i would rather have all sub system shutdown controlled by software > than automatically done It is. This is all a misunderstanding. The SA1100 does _NOT_ shut down unless explicitly asked to by the software. The fact that Itsy was able to keep the LCD refreshing while the CPU was sleeping is true but irrelevant to this thread. The LART does not (as far as I can see) have the extra hardware to refresh the LCD- it relies on the SA1100 to perform the task- when the SA1100 sleeps, the LCD will stop. Please let this thread die now. Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 17:23:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14806 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:23:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14802 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:22:59 +0200 Received: from chrs.com (mail.chrs.com [216.38.7.230]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900DLAS29VA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:22:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gateway.chrs.com id <26883>; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:11:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:11:13 -0400 From: Arawak Subject: Re: Logos To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Reply-to: Arawak Message-id: <00Apr19.111115edt.26883@gateway.chrs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Standard (2.10.2010) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;5) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I dunno... to me, a Lart sounds like sound kind of small animal... maybe a cross between a koala and a mink. If I had an ounce of artistic talent I'd draw one, but.... Sean -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 17:40:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14857 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:40:20 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14853 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:40:19 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FT900BLPSV3T2@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:40:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.68.210]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07665; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:01:37 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:05:43 +0530 From: Mukund Iyer Subject: Re: The Lart, The Doom and Itsy (aka screen shutdown) To: Erik Mouw Cc: dac33@hermes.cam.ac.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002e01bfaa15$04add700$d24436ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > >As I already said before: it is up to the OS to decide if the CPU is >switched off at all[1], The SA1100 has no automatic switch off logic. > > >Erik > >[1] Or better: it is up to a userland tool to decide to switch off the > CPU, because policy belongs in userland, not in the kernel. > yup, definitely. whether to keep CPU alive or not depends on the current contexts and cannot be a direct OS decision. i guess all the OS can do is to see whether any processes are in the running state.. and shut off if there are none. this would be the only real decision it can take. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 18:00:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14933 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:00:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14929 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:00:01 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900G60TRZO5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:00:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00475 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22927 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:47:20 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FDD508.C8A9CCAE@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> <38FDAE99.48324692@steves-house.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Steve Wiseman wrote: > Steve Goodwin wrote: > > > The working basis for me shipping complete boards would be no case or > > PSU I reckon. > > Yes- it was the discussion about packaging that prodded my mind in this > direction. Exactly, it was for these very reasons that I initially raised the question of packaging in the first place - this stuff takes a serious amount of effort and can easily slip in relation to the more fun side of developing hardware & software. Logo goofiness aside simply having individual designers resolve the problem, while pragmatic, misses what I would contend is a critical component in the engineering of any number of LART solutions. I would hope we would be able to pool resources here and produce a collective small set of baseline packaging solutions while allowing individuals to innovate if they want. > > Rest assured I will try to avoid getting into trouble here :) > > Being a test case for open-source hardware Vs CE legislation strikes me > as a lot of no-fun :( > > Out of interest, does anyone on this list have easy access to an EMC > test chamber? - I see a lot more softies than hardware people... > > Steve Well, Steve, funny you should ask - since this is getting to the nub of the thing for those with possible commercial interests and given what I'm sure there are fairly wide ranging homologation issues between UK (EU ?), DoC (Canada), FCC (US), Japan, Australia, etc. Maybe we should take this momentarily offline and discuss what exactly is needed and what is available... Terry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 18:24:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15088 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:24:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15084 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:24:07 +0200 From: LeoSusanto@aol.com Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900GOSUW5VI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:24:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LeoSusanto@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id 3.67.3213aef (15544); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com, gtm.kramer@inter.nl.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <67.3213aef.262f3656@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk sure. please provide the size you are thinking, eric. what kind of specs? i am interested in buying couples too leo In a message dated Tue, 18 Apr 2000 9:23:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com writes: > please put me down for at least 1 lart+ksb+ethernet(4 port would be nice) > price pending. lower cost = more units. I also have a few interested > friends. any one interested in a group purchase of lcd displays? > > Eric > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > Fully assembled > > > > efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > > > > bare boards or assembled units? > > > > > > -eric > > > > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > > > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > > > > >combo. > > > > > > > > Where can we sign up for one board or more? > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > > > Jurgen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 18:39:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15169 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:39:34 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15165 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:39:33 +0200 From: xcalbet@inm.es Received: from poseidon (poseidon.inm.es [193.144.152.10]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT900I0QVLWSA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:39:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by poseidon (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA24593; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:24:57 +0200 Received: from eolo.inm.es(193.144.158.111) by poseidon via smap (V1.3) id sma024511; Wed Apr 19 18:24:17 2000 Received: from teide.inm.es by eolo (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA14642; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:26:15 +0200 Received: from inm.es (askatu [193.144.131.172]) by teide.inm.es (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28754 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:45:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004191624.QAA28754@teide.inm.es> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I want one if they are not too expensive :=) Add me to the list with a complete finished board with KSB and ethernet Thanks Xavier Calbet xcalbet@inm.es -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 18:46:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15207 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:46:25 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15203 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:46:24 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26788; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:45:38 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004191645.SAA26788@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Feature Request To: Thomas.Renard@smail.uni-koeln.de (Thomas Renard) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:45:38 +0200 (MEST) Cc: nicolai@reipur.com (Nicolai Mahncke), lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Renard" at Apr 19, 2000 10:58:41 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > * Marc Joosen writes: > > Ok, here are my thoughts on this: a module with the same footprint > > as the > > other boards, i.e. 10x7cm, containing the battery and the charger > > (both are linked by the battery requirements, so it doesn't make > > much sense to keep them apart). Currently, the mainboard isn't [snip myself] > How much space will be left on the 10x7 board for other stuff? Maybe > the single Ethernet can be put on it? Maybe some LCD2VGA-Converter?? > > I ask for this because IMHO it would be nice to have a machine with > all needed features (what is really needed) on three boards and about > 35mm. Of course it would be nice to have a fully functional unit as small as possible, and no one is stopping anyone else from combining several functions on one board. But you may have noticed that the existing LART boards were designed with the Unix strategy in mind: every part has one function and is very good at that (I noticed that Pontiac has `borrowed' this expression now in their TV commercials) - well, except for the KSB, unless you define its function as `turn the LART into a PC' or something. By putting the ethernet on the battery module, you limit the space the batteries can use, and someone else might not need ethernet connectivity at all. And to get an impressive battery lifetime, you need all the space you can get (Li-Ion cells are good, but they're certainly not matter/antimatter reactors yet). In other words: if you really need to, please go ahead and design a battery/eth/lcd board. I think we should try to focus on a battery/charger module, though. Other suggestions? -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 18:56:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15266 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:56:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15262 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:56:17 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900IDQWDSSA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:56:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28277 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05850 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:43:33 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: eCos for LART Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FDE235.A9442400@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38F62B44.67F2C743@ix.netcom.com> <38F64F71.BC84C77D@terus.envmtl.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk T Sullivan wrote: > Hi Greg, > As I mentioned to you in our previous email awhile ago now, we've been > working with eCos using 1.2.1 and some locally hacked cross-platform tools, > but as your no doubt aware Cygnus has recently released (end of March) eCos > 1.3.1 which now has explicit support for Intel's EBSA285 eval brd. which is > based on the SA-110 so the HAL is basically in place now. > > The high degree of configurability throughout the OS makes it really > flexible and a good fit for what we're working on anyway and in addition to > Cygnus's efforts with EL/IX in the embedded Linux community and the fact > that they have already integrated the ARMulator into GDB as a simulator - > virtually instanteous GDB downloads (while you wait for your LARTs to come > off the production line... :-) > > Certainly, a LART bsp would seem a very good idea. > > However I should point out that while there are two versions of eCos 1.3.1 > toolset (Linux & NT), Cygnus appears to have placed more initial emphasis on > the NT platform with a GUI based config tool not available under Linux. Also > the NT version is leveraged off of their Cygwin product for development > tools. Anyway, as we speak Cygnus is apparently only hours away from > releasing the latest tools needed by the NT version of eCos 1.3.1. Ok I never said how many 'hours' it would take but Cygnus has now released their Cygwin tools environment for NT which combined with eCos 1.3.1 provides a cross-platform development environment with direct support for StrongArm. See http://sourceware.cygnus.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 19:10:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15369 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:10:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15365 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:10:52 +0200 Received: from bechtel.Colorado.EDU (bechtel.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900ILWX23RK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:10:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gully@localhost) by bechtel.Colorado.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.3/UnixOps+Hesiod (PDH)) with ESMTP id KAA06842 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:55:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Nick Gully Subject: Re: Logos In-reply-to: <38FD60AE.A4BB01E9@Eurocopter.De> X-Sender: gully@bechtel.Colorado.EDU To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello all, How about a picture of a pocket, with LART embroidered on it, and then we can stick whatever respective penguin, daemon, or mink in the pocket that we care to run. This would convey the small size and great computer power available in a lart, and allow for several different characters. And it's easy to draw, always a plus in my book. Best Regards, Nick Gully Nick Gully [gully@colorado.edu] Architectural Engineering senior w/CS minor Have GNU... ...will travel. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 19:45:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15507 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15503 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:17 +0200 Received: from wcug.wwu.edu (sloth.wcug.wwu.edu [140.160.164.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT900KESYNFES@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 29235 invoked by uid 1002); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:43:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Heilman Subject: Re: Feature Request In-reply-to: <200004191645.SAA26788@historia.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: jamie@sloth To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > In other words: if you really need to, please go ahead and design a >battery/eth/lcd board. I think we should try to focus on a battery/charger >module, though. Other suggestions? If you want other suggestions for modules I personally have a hankering to see a fast IO module. To use a lart in in the server space I'd like to have SCSI (maybe firewire?) as well as 2 100Mbit ethernet ports. I feel that would make an ideal firewall configuration, which is what I had planned on doing after I built/procured my lart. Now I'm not saying we should put the NICs on the same module as the scsi controller though. I seem to recall hearing that when Rebel added (adds?) scsi to the Netwinder that they were going to switch to a different NIC because the scsi controller they were going to use came with a ethernet controller as well. (and it was probably cheaper than the Tulip they were using) Anyone thought about added a Footbridge PCI controller similar to the Netwinder? -jamie -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 19:52:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15536 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15532 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:53 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900L0GZ03H9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00685; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:51:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <38FD2055.B39AB8D2@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > I'm interested, though I have found only some surplus sites for lcd > boards and we'd probably need to have a bunch of interested parties to > purchase one directly from the manufacturer... www.flat-panel.com seems to be a good source. we might check them out. they seem to have good prices. > Doug is keeping a list - get your friends to log their requests to so we > can keep a decently close approximation of the number of boards > requested. Be aware that this is a gathering of interested parties - I > doubt the boards will be ready soon - Lart has yet another revision > coming out, the KSB is still under evaluation and debuging and I don't > think the eth has been put together yet. But it looks like things are > coming along relatively quickly - I optimistically hope to have a few > finished, revised and proven boards in the next few months - maybe a > Christmas present to myself... :) I'd like to have a few of the current > or soon to be current boards to play with and develop my project - but I > really look forward to the "stable" version. Certainly by then we'll > easily have enough commitments to order 100+ boards - maybe more... > > I wonder if this project is open enough to have additional help in the > development of the boards. Perhaps a to-do list with invitations to help > would be appropriate? this would be a good idea. there should propably always be one authoritarian project leader having the final say though (similar to linus) less we end up with 50 things, all distinctly differn't that people call a lart. there should be a standard that is kept to but I'd like to see the contributions of others as it tends to add synergy to the project. eric > > Mike > > efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > > > please put me down for at least 1 lart+ksb+ethernet(4 port would be nice) > > price pending. lower cost = more units. I also have a few interested > > friends. any one interested in a group purchase of lcd displays? > > > > Eric > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 19:59:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15593 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:59:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15587 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:59:23 +0200 Received: from boispop1.bois.uswest.net (boispop1.bois.uswest.net [207.108.224.1]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FT900L06ZAXOX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:59:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 21505 invoked by alias); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:55:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 21442 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:55:07 +0000 Received: from dialuph244.bois.uswest.net (HELO xenon) (63.227.128.244) by boispop1.bois.uswest.net with SMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:55:07 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:54:50 -0600 From: Aaron Lambers Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <38FD89D4.131060E7@chello.se> X-Sender: alambers@pop.bois.uswest.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.1.20000419115214.00b1a6b0@pop.bois.uswest.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Delivered-to: fixup-lart@lart.tudelft.nl@fixme References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> <38FB827E.D7F02F7E@uswest.net> <38FC2E0D.E9554F14@chello.se> <38FC5019.9AA2012F@uswest.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Please add Aaron Lambers for 2 Lart+KSB+Eth built. As always quantities are a function of price. At 12:26 PM 4/19/00 +0200, David Belius wrote: >I, David Belius would probolay want 1 Lart+KSB+Eth >pre-soldered >and built. Althought i would like a price statement first. You upload >software to a lart >by burning a flash, right? Does anyone know what a flash burner costs and >how easy and >cheap it is to build one yourself? > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:08:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15637 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:08:46 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15633 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:08:45 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA10284; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:08:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:08:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191808.UAA10284@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: jamie@wcug.wwu.edu Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Feature Request In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Jamie Heilman wrote: > If you want other suggestions for modules I personally have a hankering to > see a fast IO module. To use a lart in in the server space I'd like to > have SCSI (maybe firewire?) as well as 2 100Mbit ethernet ports. I feel > that would make an ideal firewall configuration, which is what I had > planned on doing after I built/procured my lart. Now I'm not saying we > should put the NICs on the same module as the scsi controller though. Please tell us where we can get non-PCI ethernet chips in quantities less than 10000. Even big players as Sun use PCI for 100 Mbit ethernet: they use a PCI ethernet chip and put an SBUS to PCI bridge to hook it to the system bus (SBUS). > Anyone thought about added a Footbridge PCI controller similar to the > Netwinder? No, because the Footbridge only fits to the SA110, not to the SA1100. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:14:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15662 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:14:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15658 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:14:30 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FT900LF3ZZWOX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:14:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA20770; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:04:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:04:18 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: BOOOOOM In-reply-to: To: "'J.D. Bakker'" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000201bfaa29$b00100a0$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Just some questions that popped up during BOM conversion: 1. You specify resistors as 0805 but the Farnell ordernumber refers to 0603. Which one do you want? On the pictures it looks like you have soldered 0603 on 0805 footprints. 2. What speedgrade is nescessary on the Flash, 120ns or 95ns? 3. Have you considered all the negative effects of using the cheap Y5V type ceramic capacitors? 4. You specify U8 as a "74LVC157D 3V3 Quad 2-in Mux in SO package". The Farnell number refers to a 74LCX157M from Fairchild. Which one is it? Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of J.D. Bakker > Sent: 17 April, 2000 04:26 > To: rob > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: BOOOOOM > > > At 02:03 +0200 17-04-2000, rob wrote: > >J.D., > > do you all have the list of parts you ordered? > > Just when I get out of bed to eat some yoghurt you come and > ask me for a > BOM. Oh well, even less sleep then. Hope you're happy ;-) > > BOM attached. > > JD 'sleepless in ... well ... Amstelveen' B. > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:31:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15755 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:31:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15751 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:31:25 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTA00MG00SAAF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:31:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from abd0c4af.ipt.aol.com (HELO phoenix) (171.208.196.175) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:27:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:52:04 +0100 From: Rodney Arne Karlsen Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <000301bfaa2c$5f95d0c0$9664a8c0@phoenix> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Apparently-From: References: <200004182201.AAA23156@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Is it posable to cluster the Lart? Rodney Arne Karlsen > it should be a nice way to benchmark your clusterLART 8) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:34:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15783 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:34:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15779 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:34:00 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00M2D0RKSN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:33:59 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:24:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Feature Request In-reply-to: <200004191808.UAA10284@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > Please tell us where we can get non-PCI ethernet chips in quantities less > than 10000. Even big players as Sun use PCI for 100 Mbit ethernet: they > use a PCI ethernet chip and put an SBUS to PCI bridge to hook it to the > system bus (SBUS). The solution is maybe to design one. There are open VHDL projects out there wishing just for that. See http://www.opencores.org. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:39:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15815 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:39:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15811 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:39:39 +0200 Received: from calvino.alaska.net (calvino.alaska.net [209.112.129.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00MAU161M8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:39:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rus@localhost) by calvino.alaska.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29468 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:24:37 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:24:37 -0800 (AKDT) From: ":-)" Subject: Re: Logos In-reply-to: <00Apr19.111115edt.26883@gateway.chrs.com> X-Sender: rus@calvino To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: calvino.alaska.net: rus owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Arawak wrote: > I dunno... to me, a Lart sounds like sound kind of small animal... maybe a > cross between a koala and a mink. If I had an ounce of artistic talent I'd > draw one, but.... I was standing in the shower this morning and my idea along these lines just poped into my head. I'm no artist, nor do I write expressively, but let me try. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! Your attention please! I'd like to introduce ... LART! the mighty mouse! Standing boldly before you, balled paws on hips, arms and chest abulging, the LART logo clearly emblazoned on his/her chest, cape flying behind. Protector of great and mighty ideas, (large and most importantly small;), doer of great deeds, able to solve huge problems, and savior of the masses who yearn for something less but more. And all without breaking a sweat. Kinda screwy ain't it? (My apologies to WB :) Russ Pagenkopf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 20:52:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15875 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:52:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15871 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:52:14 +0200 Received: from kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (kachifo.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.172]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00MNH1R0AF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:52:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from shadow (vbranzoi.ec.rhno.columbia.edu [128.59.119.100]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18623 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:38:48 -0400 From: Vlad Branzoi Subject: Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <019801bfaa2e$80a0c2a0$64773b80@ec.rhno.columbia.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.3825.400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.3825.400 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <00041714082200.11652@localhost.localdomain> <38FB827E.D7F02F7E@uswest.net> <38FC2E0D.E9554F14@chello.se> <38FC5019.9AA2012F@uswest.net> <4.1.20000419115214.00b1a6b0@pop.bois.uswest.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Put me down for 2 of the full combos (LART+KSB+Eth) all assembled (preferrably but parts and boards are fine too). I'll take 2 if the individual price is around $250 otherwise I'll take 1 for now. Thanks, Vlad Branzoi -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 21:22:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16043 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:22:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16039 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:22:57 +0200 Received: from wcug.wwu.edu (sloth.wcug.wwu.edu [140.160.164.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTA00128367G3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:22:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 22812 invoked by uid 1002); Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:20:54 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:20:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Heilman Subject: Re: Feature Request In-reply-to: <200004191808.UAA10284@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: jamie@sloth To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >Please tell us where we can get non-PCI ethernet chips in quantities less >than 10000. Even big players as Sun use PCI for 100 Mbit ethernet: they >use a PCI ethernet chip and put an SBUS to PCI bridge to hook it to the >system bus (SBUS). I have no idea - I don't usually base my goals in reality, so I'm not saying that it can be done, I'm just saying "this is what I want," if I can get close to that I'll be happy. >No, because the Footbridge only fits to the SA110, not to the SA1100. ah, well that shoots that out of the sky, oh well -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 21:59:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16226 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:59:05 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16222 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:59:04 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA10726; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:59:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:59:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004191959.VAA10726@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just want to let you know that I have linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 running on the LART. I'm going to test the frame buffer devices tomorrow, but I first have to find the correct bits and pieces of the LCD (I moved to another office: great fun). Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 22:40:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16391 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:40:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16387 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:40:59 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA003DS6S9Q6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:40:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.44] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8DC33D501F4; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:36:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:39:54 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FE199A.E03CDB@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004191959.VAA10726@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Whooee! almost 2.4 on the lart. Gotta love Linux - it seems it'll run on anything with a cpu... BTW - what is the recommended flash programmer to use and cost/source? One that works with Linux is preferable. Mike Erik Mouw wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just want to let you know that I have linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 running > on the LART. I'm going to test the frame buffer devices tomorrow, but I > first have to find the correct bits and pieces of the LCD (I moved to > another office: great fun). > > Erik > > -- > "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in > "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 22:45:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16459 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:45:58 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16455 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:45:57 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA10890; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:45:44 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:45:44 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004192045.WAA10890@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: rodney.karlsen@yahoo.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART Packaging... In-Reply-To: <000301bfaa2c$5f95d0c0$9664a8c0@phoenix> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:52:04 +0100, Rodney Arne Karlsen wrote: > Is it posable to cluster the Lart? Not yet, we're working on it. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 22:58:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16537 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:58:16 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16533 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:58:15 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA10938; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:58:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:58:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004192058.WAA10938@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mike@mjv.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 In-Reply-To: <38FE199A.E03CDB@mjv.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:39:54 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > BTW - what is the recommended flash programmer to use and cost/source? > One that works with Linux is preferable. Jan-Derk and Adam are working on a parallel port JTAG interface so you can program the Flash in system using the JTAG interface (don't laugh, it's a documented Intel hack). Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:08:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16629 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:08:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16625 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:08:42 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA004BS82HJ0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:08:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.58] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AF8A213E0214; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:05:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:08:25 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Flash Programmer [was Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FE2049.5D82A838@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004192058.WAA10938@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hee hee, you've got to be some of the most inventive people I've come across. Please announce it when they're done - I'd like to get one... Mike Erik Mouw wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:39:54 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > BTW - what is the recommended flash programmer to use and cost/source? > > One that works with Linux is preferable. > > Jan-Derk and Adam are working on a parallel port JTAG interface so you can > program the Flash in system using the JTAG interface (don't laugh, it's a > documented Intel hack). > > Erik > > -- > There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the > croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:26:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16769 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:26:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16765 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:26:58 +0200 Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA0056D8WXQA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:26:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from chello.se ([193.150.216.55]) by smtp1.chello.se (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 70acae3d5ac8b27d1dfb8564bfbfa8a7) with ESMTP id <20000419211308.IUDS26352.smtp1@chello.se> for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:13:08 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:12:10 +0200 From: David Belius Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FE212A.1C4276C7@chello.se> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <200004192045.WAA10890@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Shouldnt Beowulf run out of the box if gcc and Linux are already ported(provided you have some sort of network connecting the nodes)? Erik Mouw wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:52:04 +0100, Rodney Arne Karlsen wrote: > > Is it posable to cluster the Lart? > > Not yet, we're working on it. > > Erik > > -- > J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department > of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, > Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands > Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl > WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:30:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16814 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:30:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16810 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:30:30 +0200 Received: from homer.ueic.com ([209.118.28.10]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA005FS92SKD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:30:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ueic.com (lisa [209.118.28.2]) by homer.ueic.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id H182YMGG; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:27:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:34:20 -0700 From: Bob Campbell Subject: Re: a small proposal To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Bob-C@writeme.com Message-id: <38FE265C.C2B12E40@ueic.com> Organization: Universal Electronics Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk  
Please put me down for up to 3 of the full combos (LART+KSB+Eth)
depending on price / availability / turn around.
(preferably all assembled and tested but boards are fine too).

Thanks,
Bob Campbell
 

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote:

>We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra
>blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet
>combo.
 
  -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:32:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16835 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:32:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16831 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:32:16 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA0059290PQA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:32:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:23:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 In-reply-to: <200004192058.WAA10938@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:39:54 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > BTW - what is the recommended flash programmer to use and cost/source? > > One that works with Linux is preferable. > > Jan-Derk and Adam are working on a parallel port JTAG interface so you can > program the Flash in system using the JTAG interface (don't laugh, it's a > documented Intel hack). If it can be of any help, I ported the Intel's SA1110 utility for parallel port / JTAG flash programming to Linux. It's available from ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico. This can certainly be easily adapted for the SA1100. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:36:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16862 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:36:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16858 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:36:56 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA0057O9DIY2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:36:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:27:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Flash Programmer [was Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2] In-reply-to: <38FE2049.5D82A838@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Like I said, I ported the Intel stuff to Linux. I reflashed my SA1110 board with it no problem. It's slow but it works great. On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Hee hee, you've got to be some of the most inventive people I've come > across. Please announce it when they're done - I'd like to get one... > > Mike > > Erik Mouw wrote: > > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:39:54 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > > BTW - what is the recommended flash programmer to use and cost/source? > > > One that works with Linux is preferable. > > > > Jan-Derk and Adam are working on a parallel port JTAG interface so you can > > program the Flash in system using the JTAG interface (don't laugh, it's a > > documented Intel hack). > > > > Erik > > > > -- > > There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the > > croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:38:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16878 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:38:38 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16874 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:38:37 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA11161; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:38:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:38:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004192138.XAA11161@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:23:20 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> Jan-Derk and Adam are working on a parallel port JTAG interface so you can >> program the Flash in system using the JTAG interface (don't laugh, it's a >> documented Intel hack). > > If it can be of any help, I ported the Intel's SA1110 utility for parallel > port / JTAG flash programming to Linux. It's available from > ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico. This can certainly be easily adapted for > the SA1100. That's exactly what Jan-Derk wanted to do. JDB, if you're "sleepless in Gemert": please go ahead! ;-) Erik [it's so nice to know that your co-worker is reading his email 150km away from you] -- "God. Root. What is difference?" -- Pitr in "User Friendly" by Illiad -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 19 23:43:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16896 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:43:07 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16892 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:43:06 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28010; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:43:03 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004192143.XAA28010@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: LART Packaging... To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:43:03 +0200 (MEST) Cc: rodney.karlsen@yahoo.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <200004192045.WAA10890@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> from "Erik Mouw" at Apr 19, 2000 10:45:44 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:52:04 +0100, Rodney Arne Karlsen wrote: > > Is it posable to cluster the Lart? > > Not yet, we're working on it. That means: you can expect the logo Real Soon Now(tm), the actual code and hardware will take a while longer :) -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 00:15:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA17061 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:15:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17057 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:15:47 +0200 Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA006IWB6AZ3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:15:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from chello.se ([193.150.216.55]) by smtp1.chello.se (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 70acae3d5ac8b27d1dfb8564bfbfa8a7) with ESMTP id <20000419220157.IVKD26352.smtp1@chello.se> for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:01:57 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:00:46 +0200 From: David Belius Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre3-rmk2-np2 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FE2C8E.1E915990@chello.se> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <200004192138.XAA11161@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > -- > "God. Root. What is difference?" > -- Pitr in "User Friendly" by Illiad Man, I want one of those "Evil Genius in training" t-shirts att ufstore.org =) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 00:23:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA17107 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:23:59 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17103 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:23:58 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA0074PBJRWG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:23:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA22403; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:20:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:20:32 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: LART Power Pack [was RE: Feature Request] In-reply-to: <200004190035.CAA24054@historia.et.tudelft.nl> To: "'Marc Joosen'" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000301bfaa4d$7aba59e0$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Right now my suggestion would be: 1a. 2 LiIon cells, 5mm thick (still haven't found them) for a battery voltage of 5.2 - 8.2V. 1b. 4 NiMH cells, 5 mm thick for a battery voltage of 4.0 - 6.4V. 2. A protection circuit from Unitrode or other. 3. A SEPIC charger based on the LT1513-2 from Linear Technology. 4. A small microcontroller with at least 10bit ADC, preferably the PIC from Microchip. 5. Some glue analog stuff to interface the PIC with the charger and be able to measure cell voltage, charge/discharge current, cell temperature. 6. Optional coulomb counter for more precise charge indication. 7. Optional software controlled input current limiting. 8. Any GPIO, PWM, ADC pins not used on the board routed to a pin header for generic use (this is what many have been screaming for is it not?) This would give the following spec.: Vin: 2.7 - 30V. Icharge: 0.6 - 2.0A based on input voltage and battery type. Efficiency: mid eighties (can't do better with a SEPIC). Interface: As much/little intelligence as you want depending on where you want the charging algorithm, 10 to 12bit ADC, 25mA source/sink GPIO. I had a look at the pictures and if the LART powerconnector is moved to the low speed side and made straight it seems possible to sandwich the LPP (my acronym for LART Power Pack) between the LART and the KSB with some stack-through headers to continue the low speed bus and a 1x4 header for the power. What I/O is available for the interface? Some simple SPI would be nice but are there any left? I don't know how Linux feels about a bit-banged SPI port on some GPIO's. Memory mapping will probably require too much of the (hopefully) simple charger, especially with regards to access time. This is a question for the original designers how they feel it should be. Being able to charge from input voltages both higher and lower than the battery voltage has its drawbacks in a more complex circuit, more parts and usually ends up with a lower charging current. But, no matter what battery chemistry and voltage we end up with it's going to be higher than LART minimum input and (most likely) lower than max input. Therefore the SEPIC configuration. Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Marc Joosen > Sent: 19 April, 2000 02:36 > To: Nicolai Mahncke > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: Feature Request > > > > > > If you and/or the list can agree on some rought specs on a > charger I will try > > and do a design for it. > > Ok, here are my thoughts on this: a module with the same > footprint as the > other boards, i.e. 10x7cm, containing the battery and the > charger (both are > linked by the battery requirements, so it doesn't make much > sense to keep > them apart). Currently, the mainboard isn't designed to have > a power module > stacked on it, and it will likely be between the KSB and a > memory expansion > board. This means that the connection to the mainboard has to > be in the form > of wires outside the stack of pcb's (beware of stack overflows :) > On the software side: it would be nice to have at least an > indication of > the battery status, if not complete control over the charging > process. I > think we can do without APM/ACPI, which is a disaster in > itself -- I've got > a ThinkPad 600X, that should say enough. > > > Marc is right about all the different battery types and > charging schemes but > > in real life they narrow down to a few if you want many > cycles and fast > > charging. > > ...and it also depends on the type of application. I can imagine > situations where the self-discharge of a NiCd cell would be > more than the > current drain by the LART: a datalogger/controller in a hot > location for > example. > > > Even though Li-Ion are difficult to get (because of the > mandatory protection > > circuit) I recomend using them for their light weight, high > capacity, low > > self-discharge, easy charger (just need a current limited, > very accurate > > voltage) and the fact that you only need two cells to do the job. > > Agreed. I haven't found anything for sale but cellphone and laptop > batteries, and the pages > http://www.sanyobatteries.net/Lithium-ion.html http://www.gpbatteries.com/lithium.htm look a bit sad... Any other links? There are enough charge controllers and protection chips available, but without actual cells they're not much use. > What recharge input did you have in mind? Mains, wall-adapter, car, solar > panel, another battery? Well, ideally it should work on the same range of supply voltages the mainboard accepts, but it may be too much to have step-up convertor on the module. Using a linear regulator could defeat the advantage of low-power LART altogether, so it should most likely be a switching charger. Let's say anything over 5V, ac as well as dc, should be acceptable? Maybe you need a current limiter if you also want to be able to use solar cells, to get them to operate at max power. North Pole, here we come! (during the 6-month day, at least :) -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 01:50:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA17522 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:50:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17518 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:50:22 +0200 From: marcus.giles@deltagold.com.au Received: from phoenix.deltagold.com.au ([203.47.0.66]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA0094WFJVV1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:50:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au (localmail.kbgm.deltagold.com.au [203.38.127.2]) by phoenix.deltagold.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA27101 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:09:35 +0800 Received: by kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) id 482568C6.008266BA ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:44:19 +0800 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:44:17 +0800 Subject: I'll have a few To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <482568C6.0082667A.00@kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: DELTAGOLD Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I can say that If the ksb is looking at $60.00 (yankee money) I'll have about 4-6 of em in australia. I don't mind if they are pre-made or a bag full o bits (and some minor instructions), I'm not afraid of a challenge.. :-) My e-mail is senectus@emerge.net.au Mobile phone 041 919 5505 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 01:58:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA17548 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:58:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17544 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:58:25 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00998FXBV1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:58:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA14894; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:54:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA01443; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:54:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:54:37 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: <200004181335.JAA22640@deimos.mars.org> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Rob Leslie Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There's something I don't really understand. What's the difference if the mp3 softtware uses 10% or 40% of the CPU. As long as it does leave a little for the OS (which probably doesn't need that much), everything should be ok no or am-I forgetting something important here ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > nick wrote: > >> the strongarm can play mp3s right? :) > > "J.D. Bakker" replied: > > Yes. See the archive for a comparison of CPU time per player (there are > > around four players that will work , IIRC). It's arund 20-25% CPU now, and > > I believe that with some clever coding to the cache we can bring it down to > > 10%. > > The best number I found for MP3 decoding on the SA-1100 was 24% (Xaudio) with > the next best being in the 32-41% CPU range. > > For the complete list, see: > > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/list-one.php3?mid=200004150136.VAA31093%40deimos.mars.org > > The smaller CPU numbers are only currently for the other audio layers, "MP1" > and "MP2" (21-25% among the best) which generally require a much higher > bitrate than MP3 to achieve the same quality. > > I am doing active development on MAD. If anyone would like to help, I invite > you to join the mad-dev mailing list: > > http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/ > > Cheers, > > -- > Rob Leslie > rob@mars.org > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 02:21:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17645 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:21:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17641 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:21:30 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00AA4GZT58@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:21:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA14933 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:21:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA01477 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:21:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:21:36 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-reply-to: <38FDA822.BDBEB862@gmx.net> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Oh man, that does actually sound very cool (don't think it could be done, but it sounds so cool!) David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > is the strong-arm smp capable ? > > if yes, we could put 16 strong-arms on a full-length pci card > and a desktop-beowolf is online :-) > > mfg mrq1 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 02:23:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17664 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:23:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17660 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:23:50 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA009H0H3OV1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA14940 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:23:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA01481 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:23:56 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:23:56 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-reply-to: <200004191330.PAA08590@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Couldn't you do on board ethernet and have everything on a PCI board ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > > is the strong-arm smp capable ? > > No. > > > if yes, we could put 16 strong-arms on a full-length pci card > > and a desktop-beowolf is online :-) > > The nice thing about a beowolf cluster is that is doesn't need SMP, just > some kind of interconnect. Silly plan n+1 is to design such an > interconnect board. > > > Erik > > -- > J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department > of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, > Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands > Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl > WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 02:40:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17704 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:40:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17700 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:40:20 +0200 Received: from marzipan.nougat.org (9.194.6.64.reflexcom.com [64.6.194.9]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00AGCHV658@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:40:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by marzipan.nougat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15876; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:40:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Secret Asian Man Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? In-reply-to: To: David Poisson Cc: Rob Leslie , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, David Poisson wrote: > As long as it does leave a little for the OS (which probably doesn't > need that much), everything should be ok no or am-I forgetting > something important here ? Because code must be clean and efficient! Because it /can/ be done! And because the lart is way too cool to be delegated to being a single-job piece of hardware. I want it to filter packets, generate graphs /and/ play mp3s :) chris who can't wait to get NetBSD running on them... -- Christopher Kyin-hwa Chen You can tune a file system, but you can't tune a fish. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 03:54:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA17894 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 03:54:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA17890 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 03:54:09 +0200 From: chris@satel.com Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00B1DLA8X1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 03:54:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from www by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12i695-0006zT-00; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:43 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 03:54:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mailhost1.tudelft.nl To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <0FTA00B1ELA8X1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:43 -700 To: Nicolai Mahncke X-Originating-IP: [166.70.9.10] From: Chris Curtis MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <000301bfaa4d$7aba59e0$351a10ac@reipur.com> Content-Length: 502 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LART Power Pack [was RE: Feature Request] User-Agent: IMHO/0.97.1 (Webmail for Roxen) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-Id: No PIC. AVR. Otherwise good. :-) ------------------------------ Chris Curtis Systems Engineer Satel Corporation "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:39:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18063 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:03 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18055; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:00 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200004191808.UAA10284@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:25:22 +0200 To: Nicolas Pitre From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Feature Request Cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 20:24 +0200 19-04-2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > >> Please tell us where we can get non-PCI ethernet chips in quantities less >> than 10000. Even big players as Sun use PCI for 100 Mbit ethernet: they >> use a PCI ethernet chip and put an SBUS to PCI bridge to hook it to the >> system bus (SBUS). > >The solution is maybe to design one. There are open VHDL projects out >there wishing just for that. See http://www.opencores.org. 'wishing' being the operative word. Designing a properly working 100BT-core is nontrivial; probably even more so than a CPU core. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:39:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18099 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:09 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18067; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:05 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200004191330.PAA08590@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:33:37 +0200 To: David Poisson From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: strongarm smp Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 02:23 +0200 20-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: >> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: >> > is the strong-arm smp capable ? >> >> No. To be a tad more verbose: ARM offers no cache coherency. That kind of blows SMP out of the water. >Couldn't you do on board ethernet and have everything on a PCI board ? PCI sucks for high speed low latency interconnects. Ethernet even more so. JDB [think 400MByte/sec communication instead] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:38:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18035 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:38:55 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18012; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:38:49 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:11:20 +0200 To: Secret Asian Man From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: can it handle mp3s? Cc: Rob Leslie , lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, David Poisson wrote: > >> As long as it does leave a little for the OS (which probably doesn't >> need that much), everything should be ok no or am-I forgetting >> something important here ? > >Because code must be clean and efficient! Because it /can/ be done! And >because the lart is way too cool to be delegated to being a single-job >piece of hardware. I want it to filter packets, generate graphs /and/ play >mp3s :) Oh and don't forget power usage. Less instructions executed == more battery time. JDB [from the middle of nowhere] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:39:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18058 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:01 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18049; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:38:58 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FDAE99.48324692@steves-house.org.uk> References: <38FD63DD.5C46F64C@steves-house.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:22:13 +0200 To: Steve Wiseman From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 15:03 +0200 19-04-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote: >Steve Goodwin wrote: > >> The working basis for me shipping complete boards would be no case or >> PSU I reckon. > >Yes- it was the discussion about packaging that prodded my mind in this >direction. > >> Rest assured I will try to avoid getting into trouble here :) > >Being a test case for open-source hardware Vs CE legislation strikes me >as a lot of no-fun :( As I recall CE is autocertification; maybe Erik can provide more insight. >Out of interest, does anyone on this list have easy access to an EMC >test chamber? - I see a lot more softies than hardware people... I have -- for varying values of 'easy'. ATM i'm on holidays (until May 4); will try afterwards. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:38:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18053 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:38:59 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18036; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:38:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201bfaa29$b00100a0$351a10ac@reipur.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:19:18 +0200 To: Nicolai Mahncke From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: RE: BOOOOOM Cc: "'J.D. Bakker'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 20:04 +0200 19-04-2000, Nicolai Mahncke wrote: >Just some questions that popped up during BOM conversion: > >1. You specify resistors as 0805 but the Farnell ordernumber refers to 0603. >Which one do you want? On the pictures it looks like you have soldered 0603 on >0805 footprints. That should be 0805. I'm officially on holidays, and I didn't bring my Farnell telephone book, so I can't correct the item #s right now. >2. What speedgrade is nescessary on the Flash, 120ns or 95ns? Either is fine; we work with 120ns. Basically whatever you can lay your hands on. >3. Have you considered all the negative effects of using the cheap Y5V type >ceramic capacitors? Yes; I've built an X7R (sp?) and an Y5V version and cannot measure a difference in power supply noise on the chip pins or EMC at room temperature. >4. You specify U8 as a "74LVC157D 3V3 Quad 2-in Mux in SO package". The >Farnell number refers to a 74LCX157M from Fairchild. Which one is it? Either. Anything that runs off 3v3 and is reasonably fast. IIRC TI 74LVC157D == Fairchild 74LCX157M . JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:39:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18068 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:05 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18060; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:39:03 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38FE212A.1C4276C7@chello.se> References: <200004192045.WAA10890@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:28:54 +0200 To: David Belius From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART Packaging... Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 23:12 +0200 19-04-2000, David Belius wrote: >Shouldnt Beowulf run out of the box if gcc and Linux are already >ported(provided >you have some sort of network connecting the nodes)? Yes. The exact implementation of 'some sort of network' kind of determines the problem set a clusterLART can be applied to. Many LARTs with Ethernet would for example build a nice password cracker ;-), but for the clusterLART interconnect our goals are a tad higher. #insert "scalability_speech.h" JDB -- Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 04:53:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18217 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:53:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18210 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:53:18 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTA00CB6O0PHP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:53:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From bell10 With LocalMail ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:49:06 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:48:39 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@bell10.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: David Poisson , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 02:23 +0200 20-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: > >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > >> > is the strong-arm smp capable ? > >> > >> No. > > To be a tad more verbose: ARM offers no cache coherency. That kind of blows > SMP out of the water. On this note I'm wondering how this will effect the usage of FPGA's and DSP's as coprocessors handing off the SA11X0 bus and bus mastering. They have the speed to do some nice crunching but will the caching coherency become a problem? Maybe this is something worth looking into with the microkernel work I'm supposed to be doing ;) What do you think? Cheers Adam > > >Couldn't you do on board ethernet and have everything on a PCI board ? > > PCI sucks for high speed low latency interconnects. Ethernet even more so. > > JDB > [think 400MByte/sec communication instead] > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 05:00:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18248 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:00:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18244 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:00:32 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00C6QOCSO9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:00:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA15168 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:56:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA01769 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:56:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:56:36 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Actually, I don't have any idea what you just said to me means ;-) David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > At 02:23 +0200 20-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: > > >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > >> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > > >> > is the strong-arm smp capable ? > > >> > > >> No. > > > > To be a tad more verbose: ARM offers no cache coherency. That kind of blows > > SMP out of the water. > > On this note I'm wondering how this will effect the usage of > FPGA's and DSP's as coprocessors handing off the SA11X0 bus and bus > mastering. They have the speed to do some nice crunching but will the > caching coherency become a problem? Maybe this is something worth looking > into with the microkernel work I'm supposed to be doing ;) > What do you think? > > Cheers Adam > > > > >Couldn't you do on board ethernet and have everything on a PCI board ? > > > > PCI sucks for high speed low latency interconnects. Ethernet even more so. > > > > JDB > > [think 400MByte/sec communication instead] > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 05:07:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18288 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:07:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18284 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:07:05 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTA00D1UONP1L@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:07:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From bell10 With LocalMail ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:06:50 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:06:50 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: strongarm smp In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@bell10.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: David Poisson Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Sorry it was mainly aimmed at JDB, and handling should be hanging. Happy Holidays, Adam On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, David Poisson wrote: > Actually, I don't have any idea what you just said to me means ;-) > > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > > > At 02:23 +0200 20-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: > > > >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:35:46 +0200, Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer wrote: > > > >> > is the strong-arm smp capable ? > > > >> > > > >> No. > > > > > > To be a tad more verbose: ARM offers no cache coherency. That kind of blows > > > SMP out of the water. > > > > On this note I'm wondering how this will effect the usage of > > FPGA's and DSP's as coprocessors handing off the SA11X0 bus and bus > > mastering. They have the speed to do some nice crunching but will the > > caching coherency become a problem? Maybe this is something worth looking > > into with the microkernel work I'm supposed to be doing ;) > > What do you think? > > > > Cheers Adam > > > > > > >Couldn't you do on board ethernet and have everything on a PCI board ? > > > > > > PCI sucks for high speed low latency interconnects. Ethernet even more so. > > > > > > JDB > > > [think 400MByte/sec communication instead] > > > > > > -- > > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 05:11:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18304 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:11:57 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18300 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:11:56 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FTA00EDQOVUJ9@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:11:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.52] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4E1C8B301D2; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:09:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:12:04 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Linux CAE? Cc: lart Message-id: <38FE7584.D50D1636@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried the Eagle CAE application for Linux? http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ is the URL. I'm downloading the freeware version, but their commercial version doesn't seem that expensive. Maybe that will be a cheap enough alternative for those non-rich CAE whizzes to contribute to the project without spending a ton of money? Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 08:07:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18631 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:07:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18627 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:07:23 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTA00FNVX0931@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:07:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA15408; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:03:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA02398; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:03:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:03:33 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: Linux CAE? In-reply-to: <38FE7584.D50D1636@mjv.com> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There don't seem to be any screnshots, mind posting one to the list after you've installed it ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Has anyone tried the Eagle CAE application for Linux? > http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ is the URL. I'm downloading the freeware > version, but their commercial version doesn't seem that expensive. Maybe > that will be a cheap enough alternative for those non-rich CAE whizzes > to contribute to the project without spending a ton of money? > > Mike > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 09:21:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18787 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:21:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18783 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:21:24 +0200 Received: from knatte.tninet.se (knatte.tninet.se [195.100.94.10]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTB00J2D0FB3I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:21:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 5252 invoked from network); Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:17:03 +0200 Received: from garibaldi.tninet.se (HELO algonet.se) (195.100.94.103) by knatte.tninet.se with SMTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:17:03 +0200 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [194.213.74.200]) by algonet.se (BLUETAIL Mail Robustifier 2.0.2) with ESMTP id garibaldi-s1-956.215023.46650 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:17:03 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:17:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Yann Vernier Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <67.3213aef.262f3656@aol.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 LeoSusanto@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 18 Apr 2000 9:23:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com writes: > > please put me down for at least 1 lart+ksb+ethernet(4 port would be nice) > > price pending. lower cost = more units. I also have a few interested > > friends. any one interested in a group purchase of lcd displays? I'm interested too. Preferably fully assembled, if the price is good probably three or four units. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 09:58:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18878 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:58:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18874 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:58:44 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00KC125VVT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:58:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.135) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:42:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:42:43 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: re: Battery Charger X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000420003843.00b375c0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The central point of my musings about a battery charger is that the LART is only going to need (at most) 2 Watts, while the LCD is going to need a lot more. What kind of I/O do people envision for their LART? (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 12:57:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19474 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:57:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19470 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:57:19 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00AY3AFH0S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:57:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA15841 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:53:00 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA03250 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:53:18 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:53:18 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Some clarity on if this could be done X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was reflecting on what I wanted to do exactly with a LART (After all, I have to find an excuse to buy one hehe) and the following is pretty much what I had in mind. I want to do a small portable computer that runs linux. Don't mind if it's not the best processor, as long as it doesn't consume too much power. Would be nice to have some audio for those long boring classes, ethernet to connect to wherever I go (school network or home network) and an LCD screen (color capable) to see wtf I'm doing ;-) I would probably have to do my own case, create a keyboard (no need for a mouse) and put a thing to connect to 120W wall plug (not to mention what everyone was talking about a couple of days ago as to which battery should be used). I also wanted to ask something: can the IDE controller on the KSB board support more than 1 device ? (IDE floppy + IDE hard disk for example) Question is: could this be done with lart ? Being monitoring the mailing-list for about a week now and it seems that a LART would be perfect for what I wanna do. Keep in mind that I also wanna learn how all that electrical stuff works, so I don't mind doing some of the stuff myself (so don't say I should get a laptop instead hehe) David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 14:32:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19663 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:32:24 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19659 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:32:23 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA15357; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004201232.OAA15357@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: steve@steves-house.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:22:13 +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 15:03 +0200 19-04-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote: >>Being a test case for open-source hardware Vs CE legislation strikes me >>as a lot of no-fun :( > > As I recall CE is autocertification; maybe Erik can provide more insight. Yes, you can buy sheets with nice CE marks which you can stick on everything. Of course, you can still be held liable for reckless CE marking. I'll ask my brother and/or father for more details when I see them this weekend, they both are in the certification bussiness. Erik -- "software industry, the: unique industry where selling substandard goods is legal and you can charge extra for fixing the problems." -- Duncan Simpson on BugTraq -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 15:10:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19847 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:10:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19843 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:10:14 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00LYMGL19E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:10:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12iGeM-0000Nz-00; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:05:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:06:40 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: EMC issues / liability To: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FF00E0.3EBB6FE1@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004201232.OAA15357@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > Yes, you can buy sheets with nice CE marks which you can stick on > everything. Of course, you can still be held liable for reckless CE > marking. I'll ask my brother and/or father for more details when I see > them this weekend, they both are in the certification bussiness. That would be very handy- this (CE) has been the main reason I've been reluctant to release designs into the wider world... There's quite a lot I would like to share, but I can't handle the legal implications if some dullard was to sue me. Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 19:03:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20858 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:03:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20854 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:03:29 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00A5ARDS3I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:03:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.40] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A75DB40601F4; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:59:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:02:07 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Screenshots [was Re: Linux CAE?] Cc: lart Message-id: <38FF380F.F4398B88@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here's a link to four screenshots I made. It's a pretty nifty application... http://www.mjv.com/eagle.html All png files, and the thumbnails are still a little big (to keep detail) so be ready for a little wait if you've a slow connection... BTW - what software is the core team using? I'd love to get in and play with the hardware design too... Perhaps the Eagle can open their schematics files? Cheers, Mike David Poisson wrote: > > There don't seem to be any screenshots, mind posting one to the list after > you've installed it ? > > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > > Has anyone tried the Eagle CAE application for Linux? > > http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ is the URL. I'm downloading the freeware > > version, but their commercial version doesn't seem that expensive. Maybe > > that will be a cheap enough alternative for those non-rich CAE whizzes > > to contribute to the project without spending a ton of money? > > > > Mike > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 19:38:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20966 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:38:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20962 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:38:05 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00BSKSZF2A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:38:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.65]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:40:39 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:32:57 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: Screenshots [was Re: Linux CAE?] In-reply-to: <38FF380F.F4398B88@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00042011345401.02325@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <38FF380F.F4398B88@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here is a funny or stupid name I came up with for the LART mini-bewolf cluster; BOB, BewOlf in a Box On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Here's a link to four screenshots I made. It's a pretty nifty > application... > > http://www.mjv.com/eagle.html > > All png files, and the thumbnails are still a little big (to keep > detail) so be ready for a little wait if you've a slow connection... > > BTW - what software is the core team using? I'd love to get in and play > with the hardware design too... Perhaps the Eagle can open their > schematics files? > > Cheers, > Mike > > David Poisson wrote: > > > > There don't seem to be any screenshots, mind posting one to the list after > > you've installed it ? > > > > David Poisson > > david@fish.ecks.org > > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > > > > Has anyone tried the Eagle CAE application for Linux? > > > http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ is the URL. I'm downloading the freeware > > > version, but their commercial version doesn't seem that expensive. Maybe > > > that will be a cheap enough alternative for those non-rich CAE whizzes > > > to contribute to the project without spending a ton of money? > > > > > > Mike > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 20:11:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21075 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:11:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21071 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:11:53 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00DPPUJRCK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26537; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02869; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:59:11 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: Screenshots [was Re: Linux CAE?] To: dogman@bitterroot.net, Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <38FF456F.D41C79F9@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <38FF380F.F4398B88@mjv.com> <00042011345401.02325@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > Here is a funny or stupid name I came up with for the LART > mini-bewolf cluster; BOB, BewOlf in a Box Hey, this is not bad - slap together a stylized image of some guy in a white lab coat, pocket protector & busted glasses and you got you're Tux equivalent... BOB :-) Eat your heart out Netpliance (OK - for those not exposed to North American media - they're presently running ads featuring a wide selection of "everyday" people all wearing busted "geek" glasses - including a very young infant) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 20:18:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21090 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:18:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21086 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:18:32 +0200 Received: from falcon.ugwarehouse.org (falcon.ugwarehouse.org [216.254.59.186]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00EM1UUU30@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:18:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from proteus (helo=localhost) by falcon.ugwarehouse.org with local-smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12iLK5-0000Gw-00; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:05:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) From: The Proteus Subject: Re: Screenshots [was Re: Linux CAE?] In-reply-to: <00042011345401.02325@localhost.localdomain> To: Doug Moreen Cc: Michael Vanecek , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Why not further the overloading of the acronym? LART - LART Advanced Routing Topology :-) The Proteus - - - T h e U n d e r g r o u n d W a r e h o u s e - - - - - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - - - h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g / - ------- On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > Here is a funny or stupid name I came up with for the LART > mini-bewolf cluster; BOB, BewOlf in a Box > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > Here's a link to four screenshots I made. It's a pretty nifty > > application... > > > > http://www.mjv.com/eagle.html > > > > All png files, and the thumbnails are still a little big (to keep > > detail) so be ready for a little wait if you've a slow connection... > > > > BTW - what software is the core team using? I'd love to get in and play > > with the hardware design too... Perhaps the Eagle can open their > > schematics files? > > > > Cheers, > > Mike > > > > David Poisson wrote: > > > > > > There don't seem to be any screenshots, mind posting one to the list after > > > you've installed it ? > > > > > > David Poisson > > > david@fish.ecks.org > > > > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > > > > > > Has anyone tried the Eagle CAE application for Linux? > > > > http://www.cadsoftusa.com/ is the URL. I'm downloading the freeware > > > > version, but their commercial version doesn't seem that expensive. Maybe > > > > that will be a cheap enough alternative for those non-rich CAE whizzes > > > > to contribute to the project without spending a ton of money? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 20:20:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21105 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:20:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21101 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:20:18 +0200 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com (praseodumium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.82]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00EMZUXT30@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:20:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [213.1.142.187] (helo=mirkwood) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12iLNj-0004uT-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:08:51 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:13:05 +0100 From: Gav Reid Subject: Other StrongArm boards To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <008801bfaaf4$15fb0de0$0102a8c0@mirkwood> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <4.2.0.58.20000420003843.00b375c0@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Just in Case anyone can't wait for a lart http://www.simtec.co.uk/ - Sell a StrongArm ATX board for £350+vat http://www.chaltech.co.uk - Make the Boards and Also have a 16xSA1100 on a pci card thingy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 20:44:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21153 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:44:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21149 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:44:31 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00FC4W262M@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:44:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05847; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:42:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: re: Battery Charger In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000420003843.00b375c0@mail.clubnet.net> To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'd envision a lcd touch panel, for most user i/o though most of the other stuff on the ksb would be quite usefull. Eric On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > The central point of my musings about a battery charger is that the LART is > only going to need (at most) 2 Watts, while the LCD is going to need a lot > more. > > What kind of I/O do people envision for their LART? > > (s) Derek > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 21:25:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21332 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:25:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21328 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:25:45 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00GIJXYU8Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:25:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06011; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:25:56 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: lart.org domain etc... was - Re: I think this was meant to go here - [Fwd: Re: a small proposal] In-reply-to: <38FB2E75.3FE2283E@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > I know when I hit reply I get the poster's email rather than the > listserv. Any way to fix that? > > Additionally, is anyone volunteering to gather a list of names together > to help facilitate a bulk order? That and maybe put together a buyer's > club of sorts (Here in TX we call them Cooperatives) where we can send > funds to bankroll this? Doug mentioned that he may have inadvertently > volunteered by suggesting this, but a willing volunteer (even Doug if > he's willing) would be a _good_ thing. :) co-op would be a good thing. money in rebate back based upon profits. you end up paying only what things REALLY cost and helping a worthwile project at the same time. > I figure maybe lart.org if > it's available... Ideas? We're little people here, but together we can > be big (waxing profound - sorry) :) > I checked into lart.org and it is currently REGISTERED to jp@midcoast.com: Jason Philbrook of midcoast internet solutions (let's not fill his mailbox on this. I volunteered to be a point of contact and include this address only because it is a matter of public record.) I spoke to Jason (I hope I didn't step on any toes in doing this) and he seemed amiable to the idea of giving it up or at least pointing the dns somewhere that could host lart pages. he did state that he, "needed to discuss this with his staff", however. I will keep the list posted. would one or more of the principals of this project contact me on this. it would be much appreciated. Eric Fort > Mike > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: a small proposal > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:41:09 EDT > From: LeoSusanto@aol.com > To: mike@mjv.com > > let me in too. but where is your location? i am at southern CA > > leo > In a message dated 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mike@mjv.com > writes: > > << Subj: Re: a small proposal > Date: 4/16/00 8:07:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: mike@mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) > Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl > To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl > > Put me down as a participant. Quantity will depend on price... > > Mike > > Doug Moreen wrote: > > > > For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle > the > > production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > > already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards > made > up. > > I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > percentage > > points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless > I'm > > mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single > card > > from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. I think therefore a > 30% > > profit per item for the poor guy schleeping the boards to and from > the > > board shop and to the post office is NOT too much for this person to > get. > > (Profit if it facilates everybody getting product in a timely and > cost > > effective manner is GOOD!). There are some numbers in the message > archive, > > regarding the cost of producing a raw pcb, that do back this up. > > > > So how many people in the US would be interested if we go some sort > of org > to > > handle this? > > > > Moneys could easily be handled with something like PayPal. ( > > http://www.paypal.com ) > > regards > > Doug Moreen > > dogman@bitterroot.net > > AllBoot.Com > > http://www.allboot.com > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (rly-yg01.mail.aol.com > [172.18.147.1]) > by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:07:20 > 2000 > Received: from thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (thorgal.et.tudelft.nl > [130.161.40.91]) by rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 Apr > 2000 > 23:07:00 -0400 > Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26884 > for lart-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:17 +0200 > Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) > by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26880 > for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:16 +0200 > Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) > by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) > with ESMTP id <0FT500KJO3XEEH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for > lart@lart.tudelft.nl; > Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) > Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.18] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB504203DE; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:47:44 -0500 > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:49:19 -0500 > From: Michael Vanecek > Subject: Re: a small proposal > To: dogman@bitterroot.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Message-id: <38FA7BAF.DD1E8845@mjv.com> > MIME-version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > X-Accept-Language: en > References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> > <00041617195201.08671@localhost.localdomain> > Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Precedence: bulk > > >> > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 21:34:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21381 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:34:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21377 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:34:17 +0200 Received: from crisp.com (crisp.com [192.41.58.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00GBJYCZU4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:34:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crisp.com (159.encentris.com [204.0.61.159]) by crisp.com (8.8.5) id NAA15012; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:28:43 -0500 From: Kent Perrier Subject: Re: Other StrongArm boards To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: kent.perrier@oneco.net Message-id: <38FF5A6B.153D8700@crisp.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000420003843.00b375c0@mail.clubnet.net> <008801bfaaf4$15fb0de0$0102a8c0@mirkwood> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Gav Reid wrote: > > http://www.chaltech.co.uk - Make the Boards and Also have a 16xSA1100 on > a pci card thingy I this site up? I cannot get to it... Kent -- "A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his steps." (Proverbs 14:15) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 22:03:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21454 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:03:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21450 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:03:09 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTB00H7AZP7YQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:03:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.52]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:05:44 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:44:03 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. So far there are requests for ~145 board assemblies. I've begun to send some info requests to board fabrication plants, but haven't yet got any hard numbers. Can't do much more then that, we don't have the Gerber files for the KSB or Ethernet cards yet. my poll is; 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before committing to getting the LART boards made. I'm going to have some cost numbers for manufacturing the LART boards by Monday they will be in two parts assembled and not assembled, which brings us to question 3.)which shouldn't be answered yet, until I actually have some hard numbers. 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it pre-assembled. I'm using a count of 200 boards as a starting point with the vendors. I also am going to have a couple of boards made before I commit to having 200 assembled. 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading of ROM code and testing) Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 22:11:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21482 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:11:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21478 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:11:02 +0200 Received: from protactinium ([194.73.73.176]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00HPE02DQN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:11:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [213.1.142.187] (helo=mirkwood) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12iN1H-0001mj-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:53:47 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:57:09 +0100 From: Gav Reid Subject: Re: Other StrongArm boards To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004401bfab02$9ca8b690$0102a8c0@mirkwood> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <4.2.0.58.20000420003843.00b375c0@mail.clubnet.net> <008801bfaaf4$15fb0de0$0102a8c0@mirkwood> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Opps , www.chaltech.com not .co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gav Reid" To: Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:13 PM Subject: Other StrongArm boards > Just in Case anyone can't wait for a lart > > http://www.simtec.co.uk/ - Sell a StrongArm ATX board for £350+vat > > http://www.chaltech.co.uk - Make the Boards and Also have a 16xSA1100 on a > pci card thingy > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 22:48:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21648 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:48:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21644 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:48:38 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00JG71T00G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:48:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12iNnH-0001Ht-00; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:43:23 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12iNnG-0003Dd-00; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:43:22 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:43:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> To: Doug Moreen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Speaking for myself only, and that only barely: > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon Probably, assuming r4 has no major design changes. Also assuming that "soon" is in the < months range. > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. IMO, no. I recognize that I am biased because I don't need a full-up system for what I want to do (right now). New firmware is plenty complex with just one board. :-) > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. Not really much of an answer, just commentary: on the one hand, it's worth a LOT to me to not have to deal with SMT parts. At the same time, the whole point of SMT is that it doesn't cost a lot to do, in theory. My opinions may change depending on how the numbers come in. > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) It would be nice, but it's not essential to me, especially if the JTAG programmer is working and/or available. I plan to trash the firmware many times, so ease of (re)loading is more important that boot-out-of-the-box. Speaking of JTAG... something that might be REALLY nice for LARTv2 would be a real JTAG chain and BSDL file. (Maybe even an open-source JTAG tester!) That would make it much easier to test the boards for correct assembly, even w/o firmware. Actually, it might be cost-effective to have the assembly shop do the test themselves. Anyway, stuff to consider for the future. --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 22:52:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21683 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:52:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21679 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:52:29 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00JIJ1ZG0G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:52:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id J1N12P1W; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:43:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:50:00 -0700 From: Varek Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FF6D78.3D578BA1@saltspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Doug Moreen wrote: > > to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. > my poll is; > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon Yes, willing to wait for debugged board. > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. Yes, LART doesn't do me much good without the peripherals. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. I really want assembled boards so I guess that means I'm quite motivated to pay an assembly fee. What is this normally as a percentage of overall manufacturing costs? > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) What would these services cost? Wasn't someone talking about being able to flash the ROM via a parallel port (didn't fully understand it) or do we need special hardware for this ourselves? What kind of testing are you talking about? Board testing (continuity, signals) or system testing, which would require the ROM to be loaded anyway? Getting a tested, ready to run board sounds wonderful - if I can afford it... I would like to take another opportunity to thank you Doug for taking the time to spearhead this for the rest of us. Varek varek@saltspring.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 23:10:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21718 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:10:06 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21714 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:10:05 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA17872; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:09:59 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:09:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004202109.XAA17872@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Cc: kn6td@clubnet.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: re: Battery Charger In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT), efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > I'd envision a lcd touch panel, for most user i/o though most of the other > stuff on the ksb would be quite usefull. The UCB 1200 on the KSB has touch screen support (which we're going to use, of course ;-). Johan is looking for a nice touch screen. Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 23:14:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21739 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:14:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21735 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:14:14 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00K102ZOPR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:14:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06412; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:14:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> To: Doug Moreen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > my poll is; > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon yes. > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. yes > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. if it's not assembled it's not worth getting. there seems to be a much greater intrest in built units. I'd expect this to drop significantly if only kits were available due to assembly skill required. eric > I'm using a count of 200 boards as a starting point with the vendors. I also am > going to have a couple of boards made before I commit to having 200 assembled. > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) > > > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 23:24:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21772 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:24:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21768 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:24:21 +0200 Received: from smtpe.casema.net (smtpe.casema.net [195.96.96.172]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTC00K533GLVF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:24:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 23726 invoked from network); Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:23:04 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gatekeeper2.slim) (212.64.37.111) by smtpe.casema.net with SMTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:23:04 +0000 Received: from inter.nl.net (paragon.slim [192.168.100.26]) by gatekeeper2.slim (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07958; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:22:17 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:30:09 +0200 From: Jurgen Kramer Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FF76E1.CFC07962@inter.nl.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon > I think that's a good idea because the MAX IC on rev3 is harder to get > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. Only a LART board isn't very usable to me so I prefer to wait. > > 3.)which shouldn't be answered yet, until I actually have some hard > numbers. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. > I can only comment on this when I see a price. But pre-assembled is a must for me, I do not want to fiddle with SMD stuff (lack of equipment etc). > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) > Not really necessary for me as long there is a way to do it yourself. Regards, Jurgen -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 20 23:35:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21812 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:35:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21808 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:35:53 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00KC63ZRVF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:35:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.49] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A7C2983E0218; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:33:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:37:39 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <38FF78A3.7F127119@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon If Rev 4 is relatively close to release, then it would be good to wait. It's kinda like spending all night configuring and compiling kernel 3.3.99 only to have kernel 3.4 come out in the morning... :) > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. I'd prefer to wait for the KSB and Eth boards to be tested and released and get the whole shabang. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. I would really prefer to have at least one of my boards put together by the fab house so at least I have something to measure against if later I decide to break out the soldering iron and give it a go myself. For the sake of my projects, having that part taken care of will free me up to concentrate on other portions of the project. But then, after viewing the costs side by side - unassembled vs assembled will be a determining factor. If the boards are inexpensive enough (below $400 bucks) then I can spring an extra 10% or so to have them pre-assembled. If they're over $400 bucks, then I may opt to do my own assembly work with crossed fingers... :) > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) I'd like to have at least one pre-loaded and tested board to measure my other boards against. Getting a good and reliable control will help enormously in my experimentation. Except for the first board, I plan on flashing my own rom and if I get proficient at it I'd certainly volunteer to flash boards for others too... Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 00:32:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22041 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22037 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:44 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00MDX6MHHD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA31400; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:13 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: Battery Charger In-reply-to: <200004202109.XAA17872@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: "'Erik Mouw'" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000b01bfab18$4733b8c0$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Try Densitron http://europe.densitron.net/ they're really good at it and do a lot of custom design. My company currently use a custom version with polycarbonate instead of glass. They also have nice LCD's. Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Erik Mouw > Sent: 20 April, 2000 23:10 > To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com > Cc: kn6td@clubnet.net; lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: re: Battery Charger > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT), > efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > I'd envision a lcd touch panel, for most user i/o though > most of the other > > stuff on the ksb would be quite usefull. > > The UCB 1200 on the KSB has touch screen support (which we're going to > use, of course ;-). Johan is looking for a nice touch screen. > > > Erik > > -- > There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the > croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to > the Galaxy > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 00:40:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22070 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:40:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22066 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:39:59 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00ML86XYHD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:39:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA31400; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:32:13 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: Battery Charger In-reply-to: <200004202109.XAA17872@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: "'Erik Mouw'" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000b01bfab18$4733b8c0$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Try Densitron http://europe.densitron.net/ they're really good at it and do a lot of custom design. My company currently use a custom version with polycarbonate instead of glass. They also have nice LCD's. Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Erik Mouw > Sent: 20 April, 2000 23:10 > To: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com > Cc: kn6td@clubnet.net; lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: re: Battery Charger > > > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT), > efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > I'd envision a lcd touch panel, for most user i/o though > most of the other > > stuff on the ksb would be quite usefull. > > The UCB 1200 on the KSB has touch screen support (which we're going to > use, of course ;-). Johan is looking for a nice touch screen. > > > Erik > > -- > There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the > croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to > the Galaxy > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 00:44:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22085 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:44:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22081 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:44:26 +0200 Received: from calvino.alaska.net (calvino.alaska.net [209.112.129.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00MPR760HD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:44:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rus@localhost) by calvino.alaska.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21050 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:29:25 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:29:24 -0800 (AKDT) From: ":-)" Subject: Is CF a viable alternative? In-reply-to: <38FF76E1.CFC07962@inter.nl.net> X-Sender: rus@calvino To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: calvino.alaska.net: rus owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Pardon what might a be stupid design question (I'm a hacker, not an engineer). On the main board could you replace the four RAM chips with a CompactFlash adapter? The CompactFlash cards are more expensive than the RAM chips, but it would give one the flexibility to have as much ram (up to 128MB right now, larger to come) as one needs. It would also free up space on one side of the board. Another place that a CompactFlash adapter might come in handy would be on the KSB (or even a second on on the MB, memory on one side, hard-drive on the other). You could eliminate the IDE connector and associated parts and have an IBM CF hard-drive on board. Russ Pagenkopf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 00:47:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22108 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:47:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22104 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:47:21 +0200 Received: from calvino.alaska.net (calvino.alaska.net [209.112.129.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00N5W7AV1F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:47:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rus@localhost) by calvino.alaska.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21250; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:34:02 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:34:02 -0800 (AKDT) From: ":-)" Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> X-Sender: rus@calvino To: Doug Moreen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: calvino.alaska.net: rus owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. Add me to the list. > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon Yes, stable is good. > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. Yes. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. SM is a little outside my range of hacking (so far ;) starting preassembled would be good. Cost then becomes a non-issue for me. > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. I don't have the equipment to do the flash, so preloaded is necessary. Russ Pagenkopf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 01:02:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22329 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:02:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22311 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:02:05 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC0005W7ZF29@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:02:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA16734 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:59:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA03883 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:59:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:59:32 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Well, you should make sure the boards are 99.99% bug free and that they are in perfect working condition by doing some testing before hand. So I don't mind waiting a while before getting mine (I'd rather wait and have a working board). I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on this one. David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. > > So far there are requests for ~145 board assemblies. I've begun to send some > info requests to board fabrication plants, but haven't yet got any hard > numbers. Can't do much more then that, we don't have the Gerber files for the > KSB or Ethernet cards yet. > my poll is; > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. > I'm going to have some cost numbers for manufacturing the LART boards by Monday > they will be in two parts assembled and not assembled, which brings us to > question 3.)which shouldn't be answered yet, until I actually have some hard > numbers. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. > I'm using a count of 200 boards as a starting point with the vendors. I also am > going to have a couple of boards made before I commit to having 200 assembled. > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) > > > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 01:11:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22416 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:11:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22412 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:11:41 +0200 Received: from fermi.eeel.nist.gov (fermi.eeel.nist.gov [129.6.185.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00MIU8FGMD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:11:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from mclay@localhost) by fermi.eeel.nist.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03432; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:10:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:10:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael McLay Subject: Is CF a viable alternative? In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <14591.36468.961625.611127@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <38FF76E1.CFC07962@inter.nl.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk :-) writes: > Pardon what might a be stupid design question (I'm a hacker, not an > engineer). On the main board could you replace the four RAM chips with a > CompactFlash adapter? The CompactFlash cards are more expensive than the > RAM chips, but it would give one the flexibility to have as much ram (up > to 128MB right now, larger to come) as one needs. Flash is slower than RAM and also can only be written to a limited number of times before it burns out. Usually less than a millions writes. It would also free up > space on one side of the board. Another place that a CompactFlash adapter > might come in handy would be on the KSB (or even a second on on the MB, > memory on one side, hard-drive on the other). You could eliminate the IDE > connector and associated parts and have an IBM CF hard-drive on board. Flash prices are very high per Meg compared to harddrives. If you need > 100Mb of storage, like for mp3 files then flash is not practical. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 01:51:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22501 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:51:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22497 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:51:30 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC000H4A9TNB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:51:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.43.186]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FTC00I629JCNK@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:44:09 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00042019551700.06475@modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. Add me to the list please. > > So far there are requests for ~145 board assemblies. I've begun to send some > info requests to board fabrication plants, but haven't yet got any hard > numbers. Can't do much more then that, we don't have the Gerber files for the > KSB or Ethernet cards yet. > my poll is; > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon Better. Anyway, the time you receive your quotation the rev should be out, I guess ;-). > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > committing to getting the LART boards made. For me, I would like to get these two, they have a lot of cool features to have fun with... > I'm going to have some cost numbers for manufacturing the LART boards by Monday > they will be in two parts assembled and not assembled, which brings us to > question 3.)which shouldn't be answered yet, until I actually have some hard > numbers. > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > pre-assembled. > I'm using a count of 200 boards as a starting point with the vendors. I also am > going to have a couple of boards made before I commit to having 200 assembled. I think that for the assle of getting the surface mount parts soldered.... Well, it surely worth a 30$ bucks additionnal ! > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > of ROM code and testing) > If we can get Jtag working, it may be unecessary to get these flash pre-programmed... You will pay something like 4-5$ each for prog and checking, is it worth it? Hum... I didn't saw the schematics, but all we need is a connector on the parallel port and a header plus (maybe not necessary) a buffer depending on the length of the cable from PC to header... And naturally a stable and working soft. The sa1110jtag.h from the sa1110 dev board shouldn't be too hard to adapt, just some boundary scan (BSDL) tweaking probably... Jean -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 02:24:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA22557 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:24:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22553 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:24:52 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00169BTFEA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:24:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.43.186]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FTC00M78B66NF@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:29:04 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: poll for LART PARTS people: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <00042019551700.06475@modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00042020303601.06475@modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <00042013595701.02661@localhost.localdomain> <00042019551700.06475@modemcable179.120-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, you wrote: > > to anybody who has gotten on my LART PART request list. > > Add me to the list please. > > > > > So far there are requests for ~145 board assemblies. I've begun to send some > > info requests to board fabrication plants, but haven't yet got any hard > > numbers. Can't do much more then that, we don't have the Gerber files for the > > KSB or Ethernet cards yet. > > my poll is; > > 1.)should we wait for Rev 4 of the LART board, it supposedly is coming soon > > Better. Anyway, the time you receive your quotation the rev should be out, I > guess ;-). > > > > 2.)should we wait for the GERBER files for the KSB & Ethernet cards before > > committing to getting the LART boards made. > > For me, I would like to get these two, they have a lot of cool features to have > fun with... > > > > I'm going to have some cost numbers for manufacturing the LART boards by > Monday > they will be in two parts assembled and not assembled, which brings us > to > question 3.)which shouldn't be answered yet, until I actually have some > hard > numbers. > > 3.) what additional cost per board would you be willing to pay to have it > > pre-assembled. > > I'm using a count of 200 boards as a starting point with the vendors. I also am > > going to have a couple of boards made before I commit to having 200 assembled. > > I think that for the assle of getting the surface mount parts soldered.... > Well, it surely worth a 30$ bucks additionnal ! Off course, it's just the assembly cost, not the part cost ! Anyway, I think nobody out there wants to run after the parts! > > > 4.)Another cost plus question? How many of you need to have the board loaded > > with ROM code and fully tested before it is shipped out. We could have the > > vendor do this or we (my company, or volunteers from LART PART do the loading > > of ROM code and testing) > > > > If we can get Jtag working, it may be unecessary to get these flash > pre-programmed... You will pay something like 4-5$ each for prog and checking, > is it worth it? Hum... I didn't saw the schematics, but all we need is a > connector on the parallel port and a header plus (maybe not necessary) a buffer > depending on the length of the cable from PC to header... And naturally a > stable and working soft. The sa1110jtag.h from the sa1110 dev board shouldn't > be too hard to adapt, just some boundary scan (BSDL) tweaking probably... > > > Jean > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 02:45:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA22597 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:45:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22593 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:45:53 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC001FJCSDEA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:45:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAB2748DB; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:45:16 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:45:16 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: Is CF a viable alternative? In-reply-to: To: ":-)" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, :-) wrote: > Pardon what might a be stupid design question (I'm a hacker, not an > engineer). On the main board could you replace the four RAM chips with a > CompactFlash adapter? No. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 02:49:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA22620 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:49:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22616 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:49:41 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC001AHCYQGQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:49:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC5B748E3; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:48:58 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:48:58 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: Is CF a viable alternative? In-reply-to: <14591.36468.961625.611127@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> To: Michael McLay Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Michael McLay wrote: > Flash is slower than RAM and also can only be written to a limited > number of times before it burns out. Usually less than a millions > writes. CompactFlash also isn't directly addressible, it's block addressible, like a hard drive. You can attach CompactFlash devices to any IDE bus with a trivial adaptor. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 03:13:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22710 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:13:16 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22706 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:13:14 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:09:44 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: KSB Gerbers time path Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 22:25 +0200 19-04-2000, Doug Moreen wrote: >Do you have an ETA for the KSB and ethernet design finalization with Gerber >files? No hard dates yet, but here's the plan: - I delivered the Ethernet boards for assembly just before I left (last Tuesday). I'll be back around May 4 and expect to have verification done in a week (people around here really want to see it working). - I'm doing the LART Rev 4 and KSB Rev 2 right now (in between photographing an orchestra on tour -- my idea of a holiday). The plan is to submit them to the PCB people over the Easter weekend and to have them ready for assembly and testing around May 8. - *Real soon* after that (like mid-May) I want to start my own board run, and I obviously need the designs to be tested by then. Once I feel confident that the prototype PCBs are bugfree I'll release a hardware distro like the LART one for each. If you need preliminary placeholder Gerber files for KSB and Ether (for example to show the board complexity to a PCB mfgr) I can send you my current snapshots. Did I mention those might still be buggy ? ;-) JDB [getting used to 3 hours of sleep a night ... hope LART Rev 4 doesn't reflect that ;-)] -- "... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 06:15:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23010 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:15:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23006 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:15:01 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC0045BMH0P6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:15:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.126) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:59:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:58:55 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: SA1100 discontinued X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000420205734.00ae1770@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I think Intel's site says this chip is gone in June. If so, then we had better get stocked up on SA1100's. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 07:22:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23092 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:22:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23088 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:22:22 +0200 Received: from falcon.ugwarehouse.org (falcon.ugwarehouse.org [216.254.59.186]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC005JFPL84S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:22:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from proteus (helo=localhost) by falcon.ugwarehouse.org with local-smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12iVhK-00030L-00; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:09:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:09:46 -0700 (PDT) From: The Proteus Subject: Re: SA1100 discontinued In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000420205734.00ae1770@mail.clubnet.net> To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Either that, or redesign with the SA-1110 if the architecture isn't that much different. The Proteus - - - T h e U n d e r g r o u n d W a r e h o u s e - - - - - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - - - h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g / - ------- On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > I think Intel's site says this chip is gone in June. > If so, then we had better get stocked up on SA1100's. > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 09:02:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23236 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:02:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23232 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:02:08 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC007BRU7J3J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:02:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA20706; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:44:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:44:20 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: Re: SA1100 discontinued In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000420205734.00ae1770@mail.clubnet.net> To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > I think Intel's site says this chip is gone in June. > If so, then we had better get stocked up on SA1100's. > only the mBGA packages are being discontinued as far as i can tell. http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/linecard/sa-1100/ the CF/DF/AF/EF versions (208 LQFP) will still be sold. ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 09:18:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23275 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:18:37 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23271 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:18:37 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC00724UYZS7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.114) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:02:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:02:33 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: SA1100 discontinued In-reply-to: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: rob Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000421000029.00b1cc00@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <4.2.0.58.20000420205734.00ae1770@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Opps. I must have been too tired when I read that. I missed the miniBGA reference. In the words of SNL's Emily Latella, "Never Mind". :) Sorry for the false alarm. At 02:44 AM 4/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > I think Intel's site says this chip is gone in June. > > If so, then we had better get stocked up on SA1100's. > > > >only the mBGA packages are being discontinued as far as i can tell. >http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/linecard/sa-1100/ > >the CF/DF/AF/EF versions (208 LQFP) will still be sold. > > >---- >Rob Melby >Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 >uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a >Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 10:32:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23382 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:32:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23378 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:32:31 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTC008LYYE6NE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:32:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21517 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:17:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:17:04 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: farnell To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk anyone know if farnell takes international orders ? newark doesn't seem to have alot of stuff. how are the rest of you doing trying to order parts ? rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 11:42:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23619 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:42:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23615 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:42:14 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD00BD21MCZQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:42:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA22193; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 05:24:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 05:24:22 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: Re: ISSI DRAM Parts In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > That should work as far as I can tell, yes. > > > Also > >Micron MT4LC4M16R6 same specs. > does the lart use the self-refresh stuff which was on the nec part ? ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 11:57:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23667 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:57:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23663 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:57:08 +0200 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD00CF72B746@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:57:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-145.delaware.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.59.145] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12ia8f-0004ox-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:54:18 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:57:37 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: a small proposal To: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39002611.1966AC09@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk J.D. Bakker wrote: > I don't want to sink anyone's enterprising dreams, but... > > >For people here in the US it would be nice to set up an org to handle the > >production of finished and unstuffed motherboards. There > >already are some people that are trying to get a few prototype boards made up. > >I think considering the cost, it would be good for them to get a few > >percentage > >points in profit to cover their misc. expenses, and effort. Unless I'm > >mistaken, production in hundreds could reduce the cost of a single card > >from ~$300 to $400 each to probobly $100 to $200. > > Not nearly. Checking 4pcb (from the hardware distro README), LART qty 3 > costs around US$400 each; where qty100 goes for $30-$50 (with 1-5 weeks > lead time). > > We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > combo. Can I send you $60 for one, to be held in trusty until the run is produced, then you send one to me? Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 12:45:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23885 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:26 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23877; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:23 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:35:26 +0200 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: ISSI DRAM Parts Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >does the lart use the self-refresh stuff which was on the nec part The board supports it, BLOB doesn't yet. All DRAM devices that I have lying are self refresh capable too. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 12:45:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23889 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:27 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23872; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:18 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000420205734.00ae1770@mail.clubnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:30:44 +0200 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: SA1100 discontinued Cc: Derek Lassen , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 08:44 +0200 21-04-2000, rob wrote: >On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > >> I think Intel's site says this chip is gone in June. >> If so, then we had better get stocked up on SA1100's. >> > >only the mBGA packages are being discontinued as far as i can tell. >http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/linecard/sa-1100/ > >the CF/DF/AF/EF versions (208 LQFP) will still be sold. ...and probably will be for some time. Remember these are embedded devices, used in machines which must be serviceable over a period of years. Intel could drop the uBGAs as the SA-1110 is (almost) pin compatible. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 12:45:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23881 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:24 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23875; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:21 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:33:44 +0200 To: rob From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: farnell Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 10:17 +0200 21-04-2000, rob wrote: >anyone know if farnell takes international orders ? newark doesn't seem >to have alot of stuff. I know that it's possible to order Newark stuff through Farnell (albeit with 7-10 day lead times); have you tried to ask Newark if they can sell Farnell stuff ? JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 12:45:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23893 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:30 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23882; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:25 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39002611.1966AC09@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:40:11 +0200 To: Jeff Davies From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, dogman@bitterroot.net Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra >> blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet >> combo. > >Can I send you $60 for one, to be held in trusty until the run is >produced, then >you send one to me? I'm afraid you'll have to go through the entire purchase order hassle (the Uni is quite strict on this). Anyways it may be best still to join Doug Moreen's efforts in getting boards *and* components. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 14:01:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24066 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:01:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24062 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:01:21 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD00GAQ81SMC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:01:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.86]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA29003 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:24:22 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:28:30 +0530 From: Mukund Subject: for the last time! To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002101bfab88$e9f4cde0$561e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk for the last time :-) how much approx is a lart going to cost me (with KSB, CPU, mem, flash, the works, EVERYTHING) if i order for one here? i know this cost figure is very much dependent on the quantity of orders we get. but can somebody give a rough estimate of the whole cost of the lart (everything) considering an estimated number of orders on this list? i live in india, and $->rupee turns out to be very costly for me. so i cannot COMMIT for buying a lart, unless i am certain of the final cost figure. if i know the figure, and it's reasonably affordable for us, many of my friends would be interested too in ordering for larts. - muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 15:24:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24217 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:24:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24213 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:24:40 +0200 Received: from server1.siscom.net (server1.siscom.net [209.251.2.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD00JCLBX27Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:24:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 7818 invoked from network); Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:20:36 +0000 Received: from ppp253.c5300-3.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) ([209.251.11.253]) (envelope-sender ) by server1.siscom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:20:36 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:19:27 -0700 From: Brian Kraack Subject: Re: for the last time! To: Mukund Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: bkraack@siscom.net Message-id: <39007F8F.E12F7E36@siscom.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <002101bfab88$e9f4cde0$561e36ca@muks> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Here is something JDB sent me before this list got so big ... it might be usefull now for all of the new people. Remember, it is just an estimate, YMMV: The main components are (with qty 100 price estimate): - (1) SA-1100 in LQFP-package. The board supports all speed grades and core voltages. (US$60) - (4) 4Mx16 EDO DRAM chips in TSOP-II package. Micron, ISSI and others make these. (4xUS$10) - (2) Intel DT28F160F3B120 Fast Boot Block Flash devices (2xUS$10) - (1) Maxim MAX1626ESA step-down converter for the I/O voltage (US$2) - (1) Maxim MAX1627ESA step-down converter for the core voltage (US$2) - (1) Maxim MAX3223ECAP RS232 transceiver (US$3) - (1) Maxim MAX811SEUS Microprocessor supervisor (US$2) ...and about US$30 worth of decoupling capacitors, connectors and odds and ends; all available from Farnell (http://www.farnell.com). If you want an estimate on the PCB cost, try http://www.4pcb.com When I was estimating, I figured about $30 per PCB (qty 100, 1 week turnaround), and another $30 for board stuffing (this is just a guess ...) so that puts final estimated cost at: $210 (US) at quantities less than 100, prices will increase significantly (ex: 1 week PCBs, qty 25 go up to $65) hope that helps, /Brian PS: Remember, the above is just an estimate. Nobody but you are responsible for your descisions based on this 'information'. Mukund wrote: > for the last time :-) > > how much approx is a lart going to cost me (with KSB, > CPU, mem, flash, the works, EVERYTHING) if i order for one here? > > i know this cost figure is very much dependent on the > quantity of orders we get. but can somebody give a rough > estimate of the whole cost of the lart (everything) considering > an estimated number of orders on this list? > > i live in india, and $->rupee turns out to be very costly > for me. so i cannot COMMIT for buying a lart, unless > i am certain of the final cost figure. > > if i know the figure, and it's reasonably affordable for us, > many of my friends would be interested too in ordering for > larts. > > - muks > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 15:37:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24264 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:37:34 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24260 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:37:33 +0200 Received: from server1.siscom.net (server1.siscom.net [209.251.2.89]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD00K0MCIJ04@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:37:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 15620 invoked from network); Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:34:00 +0000 Received: from ppp253.c5300-3.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) ([209.251.11.253]) (envelope-sender ) by server1.siscom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:34:00 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:32:52 -0700 From: Brian Kraack Subject: Re: for the last time! To: Mukund , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: bkraack@siscom.net Message-id: <390082B4.8586F12C@siscom.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <002101bfab88$e9f4cde0$561e36ca@muks> <39007F8F.E12F7E36@siscom.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk OOPS ... forgot to mention, that is for just the LART. I figure the KSB would be less, maybe 2/3 of a LART? Brian Kraack wrote: > Here is something JDB sent me before this list got so big ... it might > be usefull now for all of the new people. > Remember, it is just an estimate, YMMV: > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 17:15:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24484 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:15:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24480 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:15:03 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD0000QH1104@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:15:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA14158; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:57:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: lart testing To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200004211457.KAA14158"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 0JU7OI9+eV1hgWYLQBrHaA== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was wondering what kinds of tests were performed on the lart before this latest revision of the board was pronounced stable. Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 18:23:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24676 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:23:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24672 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:22:59 +0200 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD001APK6AGQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:22:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-27.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.27] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12igCE-00028w-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:22:23 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:40:41 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? To: Ghazan Haider Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39003028.EACC7C92@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <20000417162347.25439.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ghazan Haider wrote: > Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the > excitement about lart and i dont know why. Ive been > aiming to produce the absolutely cheapest machines > with LCD screens that can run win95 and linux.... LART > doesnt even seem x86 compatible (is it?). OR maybe its > very cheap to produce... is it cheaper than iopener > and with better benchmarks??? Can it run DOOM? :) > And if its not x86 compatible what compatible is it > beside a linux kernel? > -Ghazan Haider a typical pc104 x86 board takes 700mA and cost $300. (same spec in terms of RAM,i/o etc as lart. A powerpc credit card size board costs $600 but takes about 250mA. Lart takes 43mA and looks like it will cost $60.... Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 18:23:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24686 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:23:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24682 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:23:15 +0200 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD001B8K6QGQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:23:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-27.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.27] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12igC9-00028N-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:22:18 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:36:01 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:ff To: Joshua Matthew Mayo Cc: Ken Chiu Kun Wu , Lart Mail Server , pleb@cse.unsw.edu.au Message-id: <39002F10.1BA27672@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Joshua Matthew Mayo wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ken Chiu Kun Wu wrote: > > Hi all, > > Help! I've got this error after I loaded both Kernel and Ramdisk > > and "boot kernel". The kernel image is based on 2.3.35 and the boot > > loader is blob-1.0.5 Also the ramdisk is "ramdisk-lart-videolink" > > from LART. I've no idea what's going :( well the only difference can only > > be my kernel... so i must've done something wrong there.. > > I believe the Linux kernel interprets device 00:ff as being for > an NFS mounted root filesystem. You don't have any network drivers > compiled in, so it has no way to try to mount an NFS directory. > > You need to set the root filesystem to whatever device contains your > ramdisk image, using `rdev` after the kernel is compiled. > For more background info you ought to go to www.linuxdoc.org and look for the book on making your own linux boot loader, kernel and compressed image. It goes into depth on rdev. Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 18:24:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24711 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:24:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24707 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:24:16 +0200 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD001D8K8F54@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:24:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-27.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.27] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12igCO-00029i-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:22:33 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:53:55 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: a small proposal To: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Cc: LART Message-id: <39003342.6E18DE4F@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <2.2.32.20000416223117.0088d358@netmail.home.com> <38FB617A.E4EB4F0@embedded.cl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote: > "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > > Are those six-layer PCBs with 0.15mm (six mil) trace width/clearance and > > 0.3 mm (12 mil) smallest hole diameter ? If yes then I want the address of > > your PCB fab house :) > > > > JDB. > > > > Nope, three layers only. But the track width and interspacing is very much the > same (actually, the same -- don't know how much spacing there is, for example, > between the StrongARM pins but I think it has to be near the same as the SH TQFP > pins -- 0.1mm pin width and 0.5mm interspacing, so our tracks are 0.15mm width). > > When I went to quote the PCB I was almost convinced that we were going to end > buying the boards in the USA -- I thought, what the hell, let's try it here. When > the lady that attended me told me the price for 4 the prototype boards ($37.500 > chilean pesos, like 80 US dollars), I asked her if that was the price of _one_ > board because I was really surprised. But I was wrong, the price was really for > the 4 boards. She showed me a sample of their work and, as I told you, the quality > was excellent. As I looked amazed, she told me that, yes, buying them outside the > country was much more expensive. They bought a CNC for them last year (they build > UPSs) and this year they started outsourcing. > > By the way, they have the PCBs ready in three days. If someone from this list > lives in Chile (grrr... I really doubt that ;^/ ), the name of the company is > "Buron & Buron", they have an entry in the yellow pages. They have a web page > (http://www.buron.cl) and an email address, but they don't seem to check it often > (I had to go personally there to quote my board because they didn't answer the > email I sent them). > Are you volunteering to get the 100 boards made there? Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 18:25:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24770 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24762 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:45 +0200 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD001EBKAWGQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-27.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.27] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12igCr-0002DU-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:23:01 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:16:15 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: Is CF a viable alternative? To: Michael McLay Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39007ECF.4DBBBEF4@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <38FF76E1.CFC07962@inter.nl.net> <14591.36468.961625.611127@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Flash prices are very high per Meg compared to harddrives. If you > need > 100Mb of storage, like for mp3 files then flash is not > practical. > -- I think that Compact Flash is rather excellent. Is it more expensive than just having a daughter board with flash chips on? I've seen 320meg Compact Flash card for $600. (totally silent, and lower current, but higher cost per meg). Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 18:25:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24771 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24765 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:45 +0200 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD0014GKAWG1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:25:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-27.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.27] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12igCJ-00029K-00; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:22:27 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:50:01 +0100 From: Jeff Davies Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? To: Erik Mouw Cc: jamie@wcug.wwu.edu, ghazanhaider@yahoo.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39003259.FA05FD6@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <200004171745.TAA25231@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:26:42 -0700 (PDT), Jamie Heilman wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ghazan Haider wrote: > >>Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the excitement about lart and > >>i dont know why. > > > > There are a lot of reasons, I'll tell you one of them, then let you go > > research the rest. 1W power consumption. Think about that. That > > fancy-pants graphics card in your PC you're using probalby eats about 50W > > all by itself. Anyone want to hazzard a guess as to how long you could > > keep a LART alive on a 1400VA UPS in the event of a power failure? > > I can do, bu I'll have to assume you meant 1400 VAh: > > A LART in idle mode draws 42mA at 9V, so: > > 1400VAh / ( 9V * 42 mA ) = 3703.7 hours = 154.3 days > How about the Sony NPF-950 camcorder battery - can supply 1 amp for 8 hours. so 43mA => 8 days. not bad for 300 grammes. Nice wearable. Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 19:36:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25035 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:36:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25031 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:36:04 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD002KXNK2Q4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:36:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.97] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A0844CB4006A; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:31:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:35:33 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Farnell To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39009165.F77362F2@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm having trouble locating the strongarm chip in Newark's search engine - do they even carry ARM cpu's? If the price is < $250, then I'll go with at least three. Additionally, we may consider a gratuity added on as an expression of thanks and support for the core developers... they are, after all, under a tremendous pressure not only from the goals of their project but the added stress of so many people looking over their shoulders and asking when this and when that... Mike > Here is something JDB sent me before this list got so big ... it might > be usefull now for all of the new people. > Remember, it is just an estimate, YMMV: > > > The main components are (with qty 100 price estimate): > > - (1) SA-1100 in LQFP-package. The board supports all speed grades and > core voltages. (US$60) > - (4) 4Mx16 EDO DRAM chips in TSOP-II package. Micron, ISSI and others > make these. (4xUS$10) > - (2) Intel DT28F160F3B120 Fast Boot Block Flash devices (2xUS$10) > - (1) Maxim MAX1626ESA step-down converter for the I/O voltage (US$2) > - (1) Maxim MAX1627ESA step-down converter for the core voltage (US$2) > - (1) Maxim MAX3223ECAP RS232 transceiver (US$3) > - (1) Maxim MAX811SEUS Microprocessor supervisor (US$2) > > ...and about US$30 worth of decoupling capacitors, connectors and odds > and > ends; all available from Farnell (http://www.farnell.com). > > If you want an estimate on the PCB cost, try http://www.4pcb.com > > > When I was estimating, I figured about $30 per PCB (qty 100, 1 week > turnaround), and another $30 for board stuffing (this is just a guess > ...) > > so that puts final estimated cost at: $210 (US) > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 19:50:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25069 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:50:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25065 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:50:48 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTD0035MO8NOI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:50:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.52]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:53:25 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:45:42 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: Re: Whats so special about LART? In-reply-to: <39003259.FA05FD6@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> To: Jeff Davies , Erik Mouw Cc: jamie@wcug.wwu.edu, ghazanhaider@yahoo.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00042111473803.02098@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <200004171745.TAA25231@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> <39003259.FA05FD6@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk so really, if you had this as a wearable, and had it on all the time, eight hours run time, with a single battery. still this is a usable amount of time. On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Jeff Davies wrote: > Erik Mouw wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:26:42 -0700 (PDT), Jamie Heilman wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Ghazan Haider wrote: > > >>Hi, sorry if i'm being naiive but Ive seen the excitement about lart and > > >>i dont know why. > > > > > > There are a lot of reasons, I'll tell you one of them, then let you go > > > research the rest. 1W power consumption. Think about that. That > > > fancy-pants graphics card in your PC you're using probalby eats about 50W > > > all by itself. Anyone want to hazzard a guess as to how long you could > > > keep a LART alive on a 1400VA UPS in the event of a power failure? > > > > I can do, bu I'll have to assume you meant 1400 VAh: > > > > A LART in idle mode draws 42mA at 9V, so: > > > > 1400VAh / ( 9V * 42 mA ) = 3703.7 hours = 154.3 days > > > > How about the Sony NPF-950 camcorder battery - can supply 1 amp for 8 hours. > so 43mA => 8 days. > > not bad for 300 grammes. Nice wearable. > > Jeff Davies > jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 20:31:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25216 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:31:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25212 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:31:20 +0200 Received: from wcug.wwu.edu (sloth.wcug.wwu.edu [140.160.164.200]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD0049LQ47LF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:31:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 23790 invoked by uid 1002); Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:29:59 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:29:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Heilman Subject: Re: Farnell In-reply-to: <39009165.F77362F2@mjv.com> X-Sender: jamie@sloth To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: >I'm having trouble locating the strongarm chip in Newark's search engine >- do they even carry ARM cpu's? It took me a while to clue into what one should be searching for in many of these online parts vendor's databases to locate a SA-1100 but once I read the linecard for Intel's SA-1100 it dawned on me that their part number is "FADES1100DF". Try that when you're looking for a StrongARM, btw, it doesn't look like Newark has them try wyle.com. -jamie -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 20:46:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25274 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:46:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25270 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:46:21 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD004KFQT8CT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:46:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA14951; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:28:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Farnell To: mike@mjv.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200004211828.OAA14951"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: um8iCDjawJsVst+oBBfHeQ== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dunno about Newark's stock, but I found it listed on Pioneer Standard Electronics' website. (http://www.ied.pios.com/onestop/ gets you their search engine) They're an "Authorized Intel Distributor" if you particularly care. part# speed price gds1110AB 133Mhz $60.55 gds1110BB 206Mhz $77.25 Barry >I'm having trouble locating the strongarm chip in Newark's search engine >- do they even carry ARM cpu's? > >If the price is < $250, then I'll go with at least three. Additionally, >we may consider a gratuity added on as an expression of thanks and >support for the core developers... they are, after all, under a >tremendous pressure not only from the goals of their project but the >added stress of so many people looking over their shoulders and asking >when this and when that... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 21 20:54:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25297 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:54:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25293 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:54:56 +0200 Received: from bluefin.bluefinrobotics.com (bluefin.static.shore.net [198.115.176.238]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTD004JDR7ILF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 15671 invoked from network); Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:54:10 +0000 Received: from steelhead.bluefinrobotics.com (HELO steelhead) (192.168.0.139) by bluefin.bluefinrobotics.com with SMTP; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:54:10 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:45:53 -0400 From: Aaron Marsh Subject: RE: Farnell In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: amarsh2@mit.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Perhaps http://www.findchips.com/ would be helpful? Nice bit of meta-search engine there. A search for "1100" reveals Wyle does carry the SA-1100, and even has some parts in stock (many variants have a 30-wk lead time), though I'm not sure which variant we want. > It took me a while to clue into what one should be searching for in many > of these online parts vendor's databases to locate a SA-1100 but once I > read the linecard for Intel's SA-1100 it dawned on me that > their part number is "FADES1100DF". Try that when you're looking for a > StrongARM, btw, it doesn't look like Newark has them try wyle.com. > > -jamie -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 00:52:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26050 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:52:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26046 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:52:33 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00CGV27J28@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:52:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.15] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AAB323580298; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:48:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:52:38 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Bitdepth and resolution? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3900DBB6.4E92B05C@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What is the bitdepth and resolution capabilities for video/LCD of the KSB? Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:11:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26665 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:40 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26654; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:33 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <390082B4.8586F12C@siscom.net> References: <002101bfab88$e9f4cde0$561e36ca@muks> <39007F8F.E12F7E36@siscom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 03:52:43 +0200 To: bkraack@siscom.net From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: for the last time! Cc: Mukund , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:32 +0200 21-04-2000, Brian Kraack wrote: >OOPS ... forgot to mention, that is for just the LART. I figure the KSB >would be less, maybe 2/3 of a LART? Way less. KSB is around $80-$100 in parts; Ethernet is mainly a $15 chip, a $2 transformer and some small fry. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:12:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26680 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:12:31 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26671; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:43 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <"200004211457.KAA14158"@rjlsystems.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:03:31 +0200 To: Barry Callahan From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: lart testing Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 16:56 +0200 21-04-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: >I was wondering what kinds of tests were performed on the lart before this >latest revision of the board was pronounced stable. Linux booting, Linux memory bound app (lmbench), Linux CPU bound app (while(1);), Linux max impact (video decoder). Also the subsystem that was revised is tested; in the case of Rev3->Rev4 that's the power supply. JDB. -- I may be obsessive-compulsive, but it's NOT a disorder ! -- Paul S. Sawyer in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:11:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26662 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:39 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26656; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:36 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39009165.F77362F2@mjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 03:55:52 +0200 To: Michael Vanecek From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Farnell Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:35 +0200 21-04-2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: >I'm having trouble locating the strongarm chip in Newark's search engine >- do they even carry ARM cpu's? Maybe I wasn't too clear. Farnell carries the odds and ends, the other parts (SA, DRAM, Flash etc) have to be found elsewhere. >If the price is < $250, then I'll go with at least three. Additionally, >we may consider a gratuity added on as an expression of thanks and >support for the core developers... they are, after all, under a >tremendous pressure not only from the goals of their project but the >added stress of so many people looking over their shoulders and asking >when this and when that... Not to mention answering list mail at 4 in the AM while on vacation ;-) JDB [who can still smell the bonfire in his clothes] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:12:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26677 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:12:30 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26666; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:40 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <"200004211828.OAA14951"@rjlsystems.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:00:55 +0200 To: Barry Callahan From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Farnell Cc: mike@mjv.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 20:28 +0200 21-04-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: >Dunno about Newark's stock, but I found it listed on Pioneer Standard >Electronics' website. >(http://www.ied.pios.com/onestop/ gets you their search engine) > >They're an "Authorized Intel Distributor" if you particularly care. >part# speed price >gds1110AB 133Mhz $60.55 >gds1110BB 206Mhz $77.25 ...except those are SA-1110s in BGA package while you'd want SA-1100s in LQFP-package. Try searches starting with "FADES1100" (or "DE-S1100 for earlier mask revisions). JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:11:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26669 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:41 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26658; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:11:38 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3900DBB6.4E92B05C@mjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 03:59:18 +0200 To: Michael Vanecek From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Bitdepth and resolution? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 00:52 +0200 22-04-2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: >What is the bitdepth and resolution capabilities for video/LCD of the >KSB? It's in the SA Tech Ref Man. In theory it can do up to 1024x1024 @ 16bpp; in practice you'll saturate the bus long before that. There's an appnote at http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/applnots/ . JDB -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:50:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26808 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26804 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:06 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00EMKD7GLA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.65] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A28D15D80226; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:46:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:51:02 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: sa-1111 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39011396.5B35E810@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb on one chip... Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:50:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26827 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26823 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:39 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTE00EN8D8ELA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:50:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA16480; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:32:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:40:19 -0400 From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Farnell To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: mike@mjv.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39011113.E23E994C@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > At 20:28 +0200 21-04-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > >Dunno about Newark's stock, but I found it listed on Pioneer Standard > >Electronics' website. > >(http://www.ied.pios.com/onestop/ gets you their search engine) > ...except those are SA-1110s in BGA package while you'd want SA-1100s in > LQFP-package. Try searches starting with "FADES1100" (or "DE-S1100 for > earlier mask revisions). Sorry, my bad. They also list: part price FADES1100AF 65.42 FADES1100DF 77.72 FADES1100EF 79.67 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 04:54:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26861 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:54:40 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26857 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:54:39 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FTE0011KDF1KN@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:54:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.65] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A3F998E006A; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:52:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:57:07 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: DevKits and Overpricing? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39011503.470C2A01@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I priced out Intel's SA111XDEVKIT - which is basically like a Lart at $3,923.0769 - now I feel much better about spending mere hundreds for the Lart! Why the overpricing? Is Intel trying to make all it's money back on the development kits? You'd think if they were trying to promote their chip and increase sales they would almost be giving these things away... Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 06:03:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27031 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:03:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27027 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:03:44 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00G50GM0QX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:03:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.164]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15277; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:21 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:30:18 +0530 From: Mukund Subject: Re: Bitdepth and resolution? To: Michael Vanecek , "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <003a01bfac0f$535aa6c0$a41e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > >It's in the SA Tech Ref Man. In theory it can do up to 1024x1024 @ 16bpp; >in practice you'll saturate the bus long before that. There's an appnote at >http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/applnots/ . > psssst: for about 25 fps at 8bpp, what resolution would be fine with the lart? will 320x240 work? omt, what pdma do i use for calculating the timing... what ns is the RAM? sheesh.. you've made me cautious now.. i thought we'd come a long way from the old vga era.. where we had to worry about vga memory update efficiency issues. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 07:26:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27227 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:26:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27223 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:26:21 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00GMWKFWQX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:26:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA30698; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:19:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:19:51 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: Re: Farnell In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Barry Callahan , mike@mjv.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 20:28 +0200 21-04-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > >Dunno about Newark's stock, but I found it listed on Pioneer Standard > >Electronics' website. > >(http://www.ied.pios.com/onestop/ gets you their search engine) > > > >They're an "Authorized Intel Distributor" if you particularly care. > >part# speed price > >gds1110AB 133Mhz $60.55 > >gds1110BB 206Mhz $77.25 arrow.com has em ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 08:01:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27376 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:01:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27372 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:01:13 +0200 Received: from vasquez.zip.com.au (vasquez.zip.com.au [203.12.97.41]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00I0YM1X2A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:01:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zip.com.au (MAx@starvin-marvin212.zip.com.au [210.23.142.212]) by vasquez.zip.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12944 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:00:10 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:59:57 +1000 From: MaxAttack Subject: Lart Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39013FDD.E5DCB8C2@zip.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was woundering im new to electronics and what level of knowlage would u guys recommend before attempting to build a lart main board and extra ? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 09:26:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27670 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27665 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:17 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00IG6PZR2A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.135) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:10:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:11:19 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: DevKits and Overpricing? X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000422001103.00b3d5d0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk You are talking about a company nicknamed chipzilla.... At 09:57 PM 4/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >I priced out Intel's SA111XDEVKIT - which is basically like a Lart at >$3,923.0769 - now I feel much better about spending mere hundreds for >the Lart! Why the overpricing? Is Intel trying to make all it's money >back on the development kits? You'd think if they were trying to promote >their chip and increase sales they would almost be giving these things >away... > >Mike >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 09:26:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27667 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27660 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:16 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00IG6PZR2A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:26:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.135) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:09:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:10:13 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: Bitdepth and resolution? X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000422000951.00b365a0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The limitation comes from the SA1100. The LCD control signals pass thru unmdified. But be aware that if you talk to a LCD with more than 8 bits per pixel, you lose some GPIO bits (up to 8) (#2 thru #9). Here is the section of the manual: ========= Begin Quote ============= The SA-1100's LCD controller has three types of displays: Passive Color Mode Supports a total of 3375 possible colors, allowing any 256 colors to be displayed each frame. Active Color Mode Supports up to 65536 colors (16-bit). Passive Monochrome ModeSupports 15 gray-scale levels. Display sizes up to 1024 x 1024 pixels are supported. However, the size of encoded pixel data within the frame buffer limits the maximum size screen the LCD can drive due to memory bus bandwidth. The LCD controller also supports single- or dual-panel displays. Encoded pixel data is stored in external memory in a frame buffer in 4-, 8-, 12-, or 16-bit increments and is loaded into a 5-entry FIFO (32 bits per entry) on a demand basis using the LCD's own dedicated dual-channel DMA controller. One channel is used for single-panel displays and two are used for dual-panel displays. Frame buffer data contains encoded pixel values that are used by the LCD controller as pointers to index into a 256-entry x 12-bit wide palette. Monochrome palette entries are 4 bits wide; color palette entries are 12 bits wide. Encoded pixel data from the frame buffer, which is 4 bits wide, addresses the top 16 locations of the palette; 8-bit pixel data accesses any of the 256 entries within the palette. When passive color 12-bit pixel mode is enabled, the color pixel values bypass the palette and are fed directly to the LCD's dither logic. When active color 16-bit pixel mode is enabled, the pixel value not only bypasses the palette, but also bypasses the dither logic and is sent directly to the LCD's data pins. Once the 4- or 8-bit encoded pixel value is used to select a palette entry, the value programmed within the entry is transferred to the dither logic, which uses a patented space- and time-based dithering algorithm to produce the pixel data that is output to the screen. Dithering causes individual pixels to be turned off on each frame at varying rates to produce the 15 levels of gray for monochrome screens and 15 levels each for the red, green, and blue pixel components for color screens, providing a total of 3375 colors (256 colors are available on each frame). The data output from the dither logic is placed in a 19-entry pin data FIFO before it is placed out on the LCD's pins and driven to the display using pixel clock. Depending on the type of panel used, the LCD controller is programmed to use either 4-, 8-, or 16-pixel data output pins. Single-panel monochrome displays use either four or eight data pins to output 4 or 8 pixels for each pixel clock; single-panel color displays use eight pins to output 2-2/3 pixels each pixel clock (8 pins / 3 colors/pixel = 2-2/3 pixels per clock). The LCD controller also supports dual-panel mode, which causes the LCD controller's data lines to be split into two groups, one to drive the top half and one to drive the bottom half of the screen. For dual-panel displays, the number of pixel data output pins is doubled, allowing twice as many pixels to be output each pixel clock to the two halves of the screen. In active color display mode, the LCD controller can drive TFT displays. The LCD's line clock pin functions as a horizontal sync (HSYNC) signal, the frame clock pin functions as a vertical sync (VSYNC) signal, and the ac bias pin functions as an output enable (OE) signal. In TFT mode, the LCD's dither logic is bypassed, sending selected palette entries (12 bits each) directly to the LCD's data output pins. Additionally, 16-bit pixels can be used that bypass both the palette and the dither logic. The LCD controller can be configured in active color display mode and used with an external DAC (and optionally an external palette) to drive a video monitor. Note that only monitors that implement the RGB data format can be used; the LCD controller does not support the NTSC standard. ======== End Quote ============= by 12 pallatte. Display sizes cann be up to 768 by 1024At 05:52 PM 4/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >What is the bitdepth and resolution capabilities for video/LCD of the >KSB? > >Mike >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 22 09:50:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27727 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:50:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27723 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:50:27 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTE00IO2R42BT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:50:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.135) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:34:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:34:24 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: SA11x0 Multiprocessor X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000422001345.00a216c0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is very non LART. By using a signal named MBREQ one could build a multiprocessor systems, but as I understand it, there are two major issues: First is memory refresh. If DRAM is in-system, you must insure that the processor doing the refresh never looses the bus for so long as to miss out on a refresh cycle. Maybe you could rotate refresh duty among many processors. The second problem is cache coherency. There is none. So, any memory change that happens behind the cache will be invisible to other processors. That means that any data structure which is visible to more than one task must be protected by a semaphore which is in a non cached area of memory. This is one of the tradeoffs of CISC vs RISC. (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 04:04:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA30056 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:04:42 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA30051; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:04:38 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39011396.5B35E810@mjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:01:32 +0200 To: Michael Vanecek From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: sa-1111 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb >on one chip... Same story as with the SA-1110: it's BGA and I have no samples yet. Once the latter is resolved I may use it in a design. JD "don't hold your breath" B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 04:11:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA30078 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:11:26 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA30073; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:11:18 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003a01bfac0f$535aa6c0$a41e36ca@muks> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:09:16 +0200 To: Mukund From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Bitdepth and resolution? Cc: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 06:00 +0200 22-04-2000, Mukund wrote: >psssst: for about 25 fps at 8bpp, what resolution would be fine with the >lart? will 320x240 work? Definitely; we have this working for our video decoder. As it eats 25x320x240=1.9MByte/sec (out of about 100MB/sec DRAM bandwidth) you don't have to worry much. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 04:26:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA30136 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:26:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA30132 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:26:57 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTG00AK96SVPV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:26:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.24] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE74C65F004A; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:22:44 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:27:41 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: sa-1111 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39025F9D.829C52D1@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or not in the package that you need? If it's available and you'd be willing to evaluate it, for around $70 or $80 bucks for the sa-1110 and 1111 each, I'd happily order one of each for you - I just need the exact part number so I don't get you the wrong package... Mike "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > >What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb > >on one chip... > > Same story as with the SA-1110: it's BGA and I have no samples yet. Once > the latter is resolved I may use it in a design. > > JD "don't hold your breath" B. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 04:47:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA30165 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:47:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA30161 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:47:15 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTG00B5U7QPIA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:47:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.24] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A36384A30124; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:43:47 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:48:45 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: sa-1111 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3902648D.9D6420B3@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39025F9D.829C52D1@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Er, that kinda looked like I was going to sell you one, didn't it? I meant that if the price range is within the $70 - $80 range, I'd buy one and send it to you as a contribution to the project. If it's another one of those $3,000 test kit type things, I think I'd have to pass... Mike Michael Vanecek wrote: > > Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use > either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with > terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or > not in the package that you need? If it's available and you'd be willing > to evaluate it, for around $70 or $80 bucks for the sa-1110 and 1111 > each, I'd happily order one of each for you - I just need the exact part > number so I don't get you the wrong package... > > Mike > > "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > > > >What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb > > >on one chip... > > > > Same story as with the SA-1110: it's BGA and I have no samples yet. Once > > the latter is resolved I may use it in a design. > > > > JD "don't hold your breath" B. > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 05:05:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA30222 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 05:05:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA30218 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 05:05:23 +0200 Received: from zion.italcomputations.com (net-216-93-124-048.hcv.com [216.93.124.48]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTG00BNQ8KY03@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 05:05:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (hndrcksn@localhost) by zion.italcomputations.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13843 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:04:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:04:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Hendrickson Subject: Re: a small proposal In-reply-to: <4.1.20000419115214.00b1a6b0@pop.bois.uswest.net> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Aaron Lambers wrote: > Please add Aaron Lambers for 2 Lart+KSB+Eth built. > As always quantities are a function of price. What he said. :-) I would also like 2 LART+KSB+ETH board combos, preferabably built and tested. Kevin *--------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+-* Kevin Hendrickson "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog." hndrcksn@italcomputations.com _DreaD_ "Why, oh why, didn't I take http://www.italcomputations.com the BLUE pill?" -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 06:00:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA30294 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:00:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA30290 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:00:55 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTG00C3KB5H4F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:00:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA20899; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:43:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:50:35 -0400 From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: sa-1111 To: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3902730B.96C79DF5@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39025F9D.829C52D1@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Don't feel so bad, Mike. I'm not too sure of what bga packaging is, myself. I'm a software man. Intel has a page on their site titled "Why you should upgrade from the SA-1100 to the SA-1110" or some such that I'm planning on reading. A 206 Mhz sa-1110 will run ~$80 ($77 on the site I posteed earlier in the week.) The SA-1111 is a meager $39.68. (part #GDS1111-BA) Together with shipping, that's ~$120. A small donation for something that'll benefit us all. Heck, Mike... I'll help you pay for 'em. Barry Michael Vanecek wrote: > Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use > either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with > terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or > not in the package that you need? If it's available and you'd be willing > to evaluate it, for around $70 or $80 bucks for the sa-1110 and 1111 > each, I'd happily order one of each for you - I just need the exact part > number so I don't get you the wrong package... > > Mike > > "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > > > >What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb > > >on one chip... > > > > Same story as with the SA-1110: it's BGA and I have no samples yet. Once > > the latter is resolved I may use it in a design. > > > > JD "don't hold your breath" B. > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 06:07:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA30335 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:07:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA30323 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:07:14 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTG00BOMBG0IA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:07:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA20919; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:49:20 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:56:55 -0400 From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: a small proposal To: Kevin Hendrickson , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39027487.9C0D93A7@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What's this? I just subscribed to the list friday.. (Was it only yesterday???) Barry Kevin Hendrickson wrote: > Please add Aaron Lambers for 2 Lart+KSB+Eth built. > What he said. :-) I would also like 2 LART+KSB+ETH board combos, > preferabably built and tested. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 06:10:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA30356 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:10:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA30352 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:10:53 +0200 Received: from wpg-06.escape.ca (wpg-06.escape.ca [198.163.232.249]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTG00C64BM44F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:10:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from wpg-14.escape.ca (droopy@wpg-14.escape.ca [198.163.232.242]) by wpg-06.escape.ca (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27943 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:07:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven Nikkel Subject: Re: sa-1111 (fwd) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Just in case you wanted to know BGA = Ball Grid Array instead of pins there are little ball like things Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:50:35 -0400 From: Barry Callahan To: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: sa-1111 Don't feel so bad, Mike. I'm not too sure of what bga packaging is, myself. I'm a software man. Intel has a page on their site titled "Why you should upgrade from the SA-1100 to the SA-1110" or some such that I'm planning on reading. A 206 Mhz sa-1110 will run ~$80 ($77 on the site I posteed earlier in the week.) The SA-1111 is a meager $39.68. (part #GDS1111-BA) Together with shipping, that's ~$120. A small donation for something that'll benefit us all. Heck, Mike... I'll help you pay for 'em. Barry Michael Vanecek wrote: > Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use > either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with > terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or > not in the package that you need? If it's available and you'd be willing > to evaluate it, for around $70 or $80 bucks for the sa-1110 and 1111 > each, I'd happily order one of each for you - I just need the exact part > number so I don't get you the wrong package... > > Mike > > "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > > > >What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb > > >on one chip... > > > > Same story as with the SA-1110: it's BGA and I have no samples yet. Once > > the latter is resolved I may use it in a design. > > > > JD "don't hold your breath" B. > > > > -- > > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > > > The lazy man's proverb: > > 'There's no business like slow business !' > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 19:22:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31358 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 19:22:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA31353 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 19:22:24 +0200 Received: from l98uppx1.hewitt.com (l98uppx1.hewitt.com [4.17.250.5]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTH00KLTC9BKA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 19:22:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from noaccess@localhost) by l98uppx1.hewitt.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10754; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lintng1.hewitt.com(10.20.68.64) by l98upfw32 via smap (V2.1+anti-relay+anti-spam) id xma010751; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:20:11 -0500 Received: by lintng1.hewitt.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 862568CA.005F3CEE ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:20:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:19:01 +0900 From: Anita Yu Subject: Trip to the Netherlands To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <862568CA.005F3C3B.00@lintng1.hewitt.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: HEWITT ASSOCIATES NA X-Authentication-warning: l98upfw32.hewitt.com: noaccess set sender to using -f Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Jan-Derk! We are planning to be in the Netherlands from April 29th to May 3rd. We would love to take this opportunity to visit your laboratory and look at the LART in person. Do you take visitors? If so, what would be the best time to visit? Thanks, Anita -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 20:30:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA31541 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:26 +0200 Received: from zaphod.home (root@erik.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.48.56]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31537 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:25 +0200 Received: from zaphod (erik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zaphod.home (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA15982; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:21 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:21 +0200 Message-Id: <200004231830.UAA15982@zaphod.home> From: Erik Mouw To: mike@mjv.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: sa-1111 In-Reply-To: <39025F9D.829C52D1@mjv.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@zaphod.home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:27:41 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use > either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with > terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or > not in the package that you need? ... BGA = Ball Grid Array Instead of the usual pins (like the SA1100 in LQFP package), BGA has tiny balls at the bottom of the package. The package is soldered (with hot air IIRC) to the PCB. The main advantage is the dense "pin" grid, the main disadvantage is that it is close to impossible to handle manually: you can't see if there's a short between to balls, and even if you could see it, you wouldn't be able to repair it. To see BGA "in action", have a look at a modern PC mother board: the chips that look like they are glued to the main board are BGA. Erik PS: If you thought BGA was bad to handle, then have a look at uBGA. (yes u == micro) -- Erik Mouw email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW : http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 23 20:30:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA31547 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:32 +0200 Received: from zaphod.home (root@erik.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.48.56]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31543 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:30 +0200 Received: from zaphod (erik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zaphod.home (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA15968; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:20 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:30:20 +0200 Message-Id: <200004231830.UAA15968@zaphod.home> From: Erik Mouw To: maxmpd@zip.com.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Lart In-Reply-To: <39013FDD.E5DCB8C2@zip.com.au> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@zaphod.home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:59:57 +1000, MaxAttack wrote: > I was woundering im new to electronics and what level of knowlage would u > guys recommend before attempting to build a lart main board and extra ? Quite advanced, building a LART is not for the faint at hart. You really should have soldered some PCBs yourself, and even then it is difficult. I can handle a chip with 1.27mm (1/20 inch) pin distance, but I can't solder a SA1100 with 0.5 mm pin distance (although I never tried). If you're new to electronics, don't build a LART yourself unless you want to make yourself a very expensive 0 ohm resistor. Erik -- Erik Mouw email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW : http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 00:06:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA32137 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:06:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA32133 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:06:35 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTH004PBPEX0X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:06:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.91] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A2E5C3B001EC; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 17:02:13 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 17:07:14 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: sa-1111 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39037412.5B84EC6F@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004231830.UAA15982@zaphod.home> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Oh fart. Well, if we have the units assembled by a fab house, maybe it wouldn't be so bad - but the board _should_ be able to be assembled by a hobbyist too. Is the BGA the only format they're going to release this chip in? If you guys are interested in one, when Pioneer gets them in, I'll order one and have it sent to you along with an sa-1110. I consider it $170 well spent... :) If there are other odds and ends you guys wish you had but are lacking funds, put up a wish-list on your website (with exact part numbers so you don't get the wrong package) for anyone who would be willing to help the project out... Heck, if we're not all hardware engineers or software experts, surely sending a component or two would be a way to help, right? Mike Erik Mouw wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:27:41 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > > Oh, I think I missed something. I was thinking the board could use > > either sa-1100 _or_ sa-1110. And I'm still mucking around with > > terminology - bga? Is this a way to say it's not on the market yet? Or > > not in the package that you need? ... > > BGA = Ball Grid Array > > Instead of the usual pins (like the SA1100 in LQFP package), BGA has tiny > balls at the bottom of the package. The package is soldered (with hot air > IIRC) to the PCB. The main advantage is the dense "pin" grid, the main > disadvantage is that it is close to impossible to handle manually: you > can't see if there's a short between to balls, and even if you could see > it, you wouldn't be able to repair it. > > To see BGA "in action", have a look at a modern PC mother board: the chips > that look like they are glued to the main board are BGA. > > Erik > > PS: If you thought BGA was bad to handle, then have a look at uBGA. > (yes u == micro) > > -- > Erik Mouw > email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl > WWW : http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ > -- > They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll > eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 08:59:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00578 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:59:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00574 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:59:11 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00GJBE2M64@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:59:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.121) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:43:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:43:07 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: BGA X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have shied away from many real cool parts because they only come in BGA. I think this is fear of the unknown. I suspect that chip makers would not use this package if board makers didn't use them, and board makers wouldn't use them if yields were not high. How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed (presumeably by robotics) and the time it gets heated to reflow? Is this gravity only? If so, were do I buy neutronium foil? :> (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 11:00:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00777 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:00:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00773 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:00:08 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00I1WJO7ST@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:00:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.111) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:44:01 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:44:01 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: StrongARM vs PCI X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000424013028.00b26890@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I seem to recall that somebody asked about hooking a PCI thingie too the LART. While that will be a real pain in the portal to do, if you need to wean yourself from PCI while you are developing a low power version for the LART stack, Intel has a motherboard which will fit in a PC box and hold some PCI cards (4). It also has a Strong ARM on board. See ftp://download.intel.com/design/strong/Guides/27814901.pdf Caveat Intellis. :> (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 11:03:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00795 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:03:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00791 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:03:07 +0200 Received: from mail.chilesat.net (mail2.chilesat.net [200.31.43.52]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00HG1JT4J7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:03:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from embedded.cl (200.31.59.19) by mail.chilesat.net (NPlex 4.0.068) id 38F792860002A352 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:49:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 05:08:44 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Subject: Re: BGA Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39040F1C.9D2ECA5D@embedded.cl> Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Derek Lassen wrote: > I have shied away from many real cool parts because they only come in BGA. > > I think this is fear of the unknown. > > I suspect that chip makers would not use this package if board makers > didn't use them, and board makers wouldn't use them if yields were not high. > > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > (presumeably by robotics) and the time it gets heated to reflow? > > Is this gravity only? If so, were do I buy neutronium foil? > > :> > (s) Derek > Well, for small projects there are good socket adapters out there, but they are generally too expensive to use in mass production. I don't know why manufacturers don't offer pin versions of some chips as a fallback from BGA (specially CPUs) that you can insert in a cheap socket.. and remove easily, too. Check out: http://www.bgasockets.com/ ( http://www.advintcorp.com/ ) http://www.adapters.com/catalog/index.html http://www.emulation.com/catalog/ -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik | pbleyer |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend air; @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 12:33:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00934 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:33:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00930 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:33:49 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00K6LO0C8B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:33:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F55E7480E; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:28:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:28:04 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: BGA In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > (presumeably by robotics) ..you can do it by hand without too much difficulty... > and the time it gets heated to reflow? Glue. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 13:21:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00997 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:21:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00993 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:21:38 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00L7WQ8036@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:21:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12jgrS-0007nS-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:17:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:18:02 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: BGA To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39042D6A.E1B5C375@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Kira Brown wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > > (presumeably by robotics) > > ..you can do it by hand without too much difficulty... Er. I can't. And I regularly solder .5mm pin pitch QFPs. (About 3 minutes for a 240 pin part, including washing.) There are machines to let you set up the placement, and rumour has it they're good, but I've not seen one. They're hardly hobbyist-priced. I'd be more tempted by a fuzz-button socket, assuming they're still available, plus carefully crafted mounting features on the PCB. I also saw something similar at http://www.adapers.com that I think I'll investigate further. > > and the time it gets heated to reflow? > > Glue. Glue used in most SMD processes assumes that the component is very close to the board. For BGAs, this isn't the case. I know that the assembly house doing BGA reflow for my current employer don't glue the BGAs down- that would lose the lovely self-centering action of 200-odd solder joints' surface tension, and BGAs are no more prone to wandering over the board before reflow than any other component- you've got to be careful moving the panel whatever's on it (unless it's all pin-mount, in which case, feel free to kick it around the shop, as long as it's all clinched...) Steve. Look, people. SA1100 qfp is a _nice_ chip for development for LART-style devices, where size isn't a critical driver. BGA is a pain in the butt. Assembly, inspection and rework are all essentially impossible for home users. QFP on the other hand, is just a bit fiddly. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 13:31:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA01021 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:31:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01017 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:31:35 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00LFPQOL36@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:31:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.96) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:15:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:15:33 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: BGA In-reply-to: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: Kira Brown Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000424040328.00b3b500@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I just looked at the data sheet for a 32MB DRAM and its package has a clear spot in the middle - glue OK. But I looked again at the SA1110 data sheet - no clear area - just an array of balls. Where do you put the glue? I can see the surface tension of the balls pulling the package to exact centering. Is this how it goes? How do we heat the device we just put down only - or do we oven the whole board? Maybe some kind of heat gun with a servo controlled heat source - sounds expensive. I think I'll start looking for a used dental x ray machine. :> Thanks.... (s) Derek At 11:28 AM 4/24/00 +0100, you wrote: >On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > > (presumeably by robotics) > >..you can do it by hand without too much difficulty... > > > and the time it gets heated to reflow? > >Glue. > >kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 15:35:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01342 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:35:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01338 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:35:07 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI00NN7WEH00@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:35:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C077480E; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:34:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:34:21 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: BGA In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000424040328.00b3b500@mail.clubnet.net> To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > I just looked at the data sheet for a 32MB DRAM and its package has a clear > spot in the middle - glue OK. Yep. Ditto the 5x86en we hack. > But I looked again at the SA1110 data sheet - no clear area - just an array > of balls. Where do you put the glue? I don't know. > I can see the surface tension of the balls pulling the package to exact > centering. Is this how it goes? Yes, as long as it's close enough. > How do we heat the device we just put down only - or do we oven the whole > board? Maybe some kind of heat gun with a servo controlled heat source - > sounds expensive. We've done it with a hot air gun; it's better with an oven. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 15:45:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01387 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:45:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01383 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:45:09 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTI000GXWV7ET@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:45:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:52:25 +0000 (UT) Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JGQ1MTXG; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:42:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:41:12 -0400 From: Holly Gates Subject: Re: DevKits and Overpricing? To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39044EF8.3E01FB2E@eink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39011503.470C2A01@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was able to get one from Avnet for ~$1500. -Holly Gates Michael Vanecek wrote: > > I priced out Intel's SA111XDEVKIT - which is basically like a Lart at > $3,923.0769 - now I feel much better about spending mere hundreds for > the Lart! Why the overpricing? Is Intel trying to make all it's money > back on the development kits? You'd think if they were trying to promote > their chip and increase sales they would almost be giving these things > away... > > Mike > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 16:17:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01455 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:17:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01451 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:17:44 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTI000JBYDJPL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:17:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.7] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A682319201EE; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:13:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:19:15 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: sa-1101? [was Re: sa-1111] To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390457E3.18BBD1B9@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004231830.UAA15982@zaphod.home> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Okay - assuming for practicalities sake we avoid bga (unless someone developes an easy technique for hobbyists to solder them to their bords), the sa-1100 also has a helper chip called the sa-1101. http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/sa1101.htm describes it. I couldn't find package specifications in the datasheet, but perhaps it's in the same configuration as the sa-1100? Of couse, the ksb may have all these solutions licked, but if it's available and cheap enough, it could lower production costs and reduce space requirements so that even more chips can be stuffed on these little boards (like more rom/ram? or an actual modem?). Otherwise, maybe some soldering expert could get a cheap bga package and experiment with it with easy to get tools? Or maybe I should keep my mouth shut and be happy with what I have? :) (Sorry - I love exploring the possibilities...) Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 16:26:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01476 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:26:40 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01472 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:26:39 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FTI009DIYSD2U@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:26:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.49] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A9229E8301EA; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:24:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:29:55 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: BGA Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39045A63.22E0D704@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Kira Brown wrote: > > But I looked again at the SA1110 data sheet - no clear area - just an array > > of balls. Where do you put the glue? > > I don't know. > > > I can see the surface tension of the balls pulling the package to exact > > centering. Is this how it goes? > > Yes, as long as it's close enough. Perhaps setting weights beside the chip to keep it stationary would work? I have some trashed mainboards that have these chips - I'll desolder them and experiment... > > How do we heat the device we just put down only - or do we oven the whole > > board? Maybe some kind of heat gun with a servo controlled heat source - > > sounds expensive. > > We've done it with a hot air gun; it's better with an oven. With an oven, we'd want to have everything in place, right? With a heat-gun, it's more selective and leaves us free to hand-solder the rest of the stuff. I frett over moving the board once I've placed everything exactly where they're supposed to go - one little bump and it's back to re-arranging them again (not everything can be glued down). If the oven is the opted way for hobbyists - will a standard convection or kitchen oven do? I assume that 500 degrees is the target temperature - for how long? I hesitate to cook my boards, but them I guess sm chips and components were designed to be cooked, right? What's the safest way to use the heat-gun? Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 16:44:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01531 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:44:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01527 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:44:10 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTI001ASZLKW9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:44:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:51:25 +0000 (UT) Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JGQ1MT58; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:41:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:39:55 -0400 From: Holly Gates Subject: Re: BGA To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39045CBB.AC0EB73C@eink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39045A63.22E0D704@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > Perhaps setting weights beside the chip to keep it stationary would > work? I have some trashed mainboards that have these chips - I'll > desolder them and experiment... > > > > How do we heat the device we just put down only - or do we oven the whole > > > board? Maybe some kind of heat gun with a servo controlled heat source - > > > sounds expensive. > > > > We've done it with a hot air gun; it's better with an oven. > > With an oven, we'd want to have everything in place, right? With a > heat-gun, it's more selective and leaves us free to hand-solder the rest > of the stuff. I frett over moving the board once I've placed everything > exactly where they're supposed to go - one little bump and it's back to > re-arranging them again (not everything can be glued down). If the oven > is the opted way for hobbyists - will a standard convection or kitchen > oven do? I assume that 500 degrees is the target temperature - for how > long? I hesitate to cook my boards, but them I guess sm chips and > components were designed to be cooked, right? What's the safest way to > use the heat-gun? > Components don't move around much if you put them down with paste. For SMT soldering with paste, you really want a heat profile which looks like this: /-\ / \ / \ /------------/ \ / \ -------/ \-------- Which might be hard to get in a kitchen oven. You also might not want flux fumes condensing inside the same oven you use to cook food. I would be curious to see whether anyone could pull off soldering in their kitchen oven though. As far as a heat gun goes, you want high temperature and low volume flow. I have tried to solder using regular heat guns, but they just blow the components all over the place. I have a Pace Thermoflo for soldering which works really well. Maybe you could take a regular heat gun and put some kind of diffuser/nozzle on it to reduce the velocity of the air. If you had an oven that worked, the way to go would be to paste and place all the components you wanted to solder in the oven, reflow the board, then hand solder the components which needed it. -Holly Gates > Mike > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:02:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01596 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:02:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01592 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:02:24 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ002JD0FY32@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:02:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.60] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A0FA6F64020C; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:58:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:03:57 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: BGA To: Holly Gates Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3904625D.45B3256A@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39045A63.22E0D704@mjv.com> <39045CBB.AC0EB73C@eink.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Holly Gates wrote: > As far as a heat gun goes, you want high temperature and low volume > flow. I have tried to solder using regular heat guns, but they just blow > the components all over the place. I have a Pace Thermoflo for soldering > which works really well. Maybe you could take a regular heat gun and put > some kind of diffuser/nozzle on it to reduce the velocity of the air. Cool - I'll hunt around for a Thermaflo and try my hand at some of these burned out mainboards I have laying around... If I can do it, then any one can. :) > If you had an oven that worked, the way to go would be to paste and > place all the components you wanted to solder in the oven, reflow the > board, then hand solder the components which needed it. My only concern as far as the paste goes is the bga chips that have contact covering the bottom with no clear spot to put the paste (unless the paste disolves and clears out of the way under heat?) If that's the case, what's a good source of this paste? Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:08:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01630 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:08:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01626 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:08:19 +0200 Received: from dexter.bitterroot.net (ns.bitterroot.net [206.26.92.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ002MZ0PT32@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:08:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.26.92.50]) by dexter.bitterroot.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-59196U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:11:01 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:56:38 -0700 From: Doug Moreen Subject: re: BGA To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dogman@bitterroot.net Message-id: <00042409050502.16215@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The bga adaptors I saw at http://www.adaptors.com seemed to me to be only for prototyping. they were designed the bga chip sitting upside down with a cable running off the chip to whatever you needed to to connect to. I'm going to continue to look at different mounting technologies. I'd hate to not be able to use the SA1110 due it being a BGA chip. For future performance of the LART I think the SA1110 is required. I for one feel that 600mhz would greatly increase the number of applications that this platform could be used for. Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 Kira Brown wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > > (presumeably by robotics) > > ..you can do it by hand without too much difficulty... Er. I can't. And I regularly solder .5mm pin pitch QFPs. (About 3 minutes for a 240 pin part, including washing.) There are machines to let you set up the placement, and rumour has it they're good, but I've not seen one. They're hardly hobbyist-priced. I'd be more tempted by a fuzz-button socket, assuming they're still available, plus carefully crafted mounting features on the PCB. I also saw something similar at http://www.adapers.com that I think I'll investigate further. > > and the time it gets heated to reflow? > > Glue. Glue used in most SMD processes assumes that the component is very close to the board. For BGAs, this isn't the case. I know that the assembly house doing BGA reflow for my current employer don't glue the BGAs down- that would lose the lovely self-centering action of 200-odd solder joints' surface tension, and BGAs are no more prone to wandering over the board before reflow than any other component- you've got to be careful moving the panel whatever's on it (unless it's all pin-mount, in which case, feel free to kick it around the shop, as long as it's all clinched...) Steve. Look, people. SA1100 qfp is a _nice_ chip for development for LART-style devices, where size isn't a critical driver. BGA is a pain in the butt. Assembly, inspection and rework are all essentially impossible for home users. QFP on the other hand, is just a bit fiddly. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:25:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01704 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:25:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01700 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:25:47 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTJ003691IYI4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:25:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) with SMTP; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:33:03 +0000 (UT) Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JGQ1MT9J; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:23:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:22:35 -0400 From: Holly Gates Subject: Re: BGA To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390466BB.6E4AF20C@eink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39045A63.22E0D704@mjv.com> <39045CBB.AC0EB73C@eink.com> <3904625D.45B3256A@mjv.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > My only concern as far as the paste goes is the bga chips that have > contact covering the bottom with no clear spot to put the paste (unless > the paste disolves and clears out of the way under heat?) If that's the > case, what's a good source of this paste? > The paste should be dispensed onto the PCB, not the component. You should dispense a little dot of paste onto each BGA pad. Don't worry too much about paste from adjacent pads touching; during reflow the paste will melt and suck onto the nearest metal surface. Many different manufacturers make solder paste, but most pastes need to be refrigerated to remain rheometrically stable (to prevent separation of the solder balls from the flux), and have different viscosities depending on how warm they are after take them out of the fridge. I have found one paste designed specifically for bench rework which uses a no clean flux which does not require refrigeration. The balls are pretty big and probably not designed for use in fine pitch applications, but I use it to put down SMT components with .6mm pitch all the time. The paste is also not the most homogenous that I have seen, but all in all it does alright: http://www.prbline.com/soldac_h.cfm The 12 gram syringe is #S290. The best way to dispense is with a pneumatic dispenser, but they cost ~$500 so you might not be able to afford one. The other option is to get a plunger and dispense by hand, which works OK. PRB line sells Luer lock tips and plungers; alternatively you can get them from someplace like Techni-Tool. Also, many times when you desolder a BGA you will screw up some of the balls. The balls are made from a non-eutectic solder alloy which has a higher melting point than the normal eutectic electronics solder. Under closely controlled oven reflow these balls do not melt, but the desoldering process often subjects an assembly to temperatures way higher than those seen during assembly so the possibility exists of melting the balls. Ideally, you could also clean off the old eutectic solder from the balls before attempting to reassemble, but maybe it is best to just leave it on and hope for the best. Another really useful tool for both soldering and desoldering SMT components using paste and a heat gun is an underboard heater. This tool blows air at the bottom of the board in the area you are going to work on and pre-heats the board to around 130F, which makes soldering and desoldering go much easier. These things are on the order of $1000, but I think you could probably hack one together using some sheet metal, a hair dryer heating element, a muffin fan, and a thermal switch. -Holly Gates > Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:37:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01758 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:37:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01754 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:37:22 +0200 Received: from ms21.tisnet.net.tw (ms21.tisnet.net.tw [139.223.200.179]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ0038921ZG8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:37:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p400 (tp192041.ts.tisnet.net.tw [139.223.192.41]) by ms21.tisnet.net.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA19548; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:23:28 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:40:39 +0800 From: "Li, Yi-Shin" Subject: Is it possible for LART+KSB+Ethernet combo for just $60 ? To: Jurgen Kramer Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <00f201bfae03$d233ac80$b8c7df8b@p400> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > Fully assembled > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell extra > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a LART-KSB-Ethernet > > >combo. The total price of 100 LART PCB(6 layer, 10x7(cm)) in Taiwan is about : Setup Fee ($666.6) + Film Fee ($19.89) + PCB fee($3.99) * qty (100) ~=$1084.39 ==> The price of bare PCB of Lart is about $10.84 here in Taiwan. (100 qty) The board stuffing fee is about $10 here. This doesn't include any component used in LART yet. If you could supply the LART+KSB+Ethernet combo for $60, please put me down for one. I will pay you $120 for it, because that's the price for LART only by my estimating. Regards, yslee -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:38:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01780 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:38:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01776 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:38:56 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ003HG24VI4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12jkwo-00089T-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:38:54 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:39:50 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: BGA To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39046AC6.45E4D292@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39045A63.22E0D704@mjv.com> <39045CBB.AC0EB73C@eink.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Holly Gates wrote: > Components don't move around much if you put them down with paste. For > SMT soldering with paste, you really want a heat profile which looks > like this: > > /-\ > / \ > / \ > /------------/ \ > / \ > -------/ \-------- > I suspect that, unless you're a lot quicker than me (or there are very few passives on the board), the first phase of that profile, which is meant to evaporate the solvent in the flux in the solder paste, may well be approaching zero, leaving you with a straight ramp-up and down? > Which might be hard to get in a kitchen oven. You also might not want > flux fumes condensing inside the same oven you use to cook food. I would > be curious to see whether anyone could pull off soldering in their > kitchen oven though. When I really have to reflow stuff at home, my hob of choice is a flat halogen jobbie, with the extractor fan running on go-double-plus. I get a decent control of the temperature without having to wave the board around. It's not ideal, but I've not needed to find anything better (yet...). I suspect that a small box with a few halogen elements and a thick layer of insulation would be better. Don't forget to tape a few thermocouples to your board and bigger components. > As far as a heat gun goes, you want high temperature and low volume > flow. I have tried to solder using regular heat guns, but they just blow > the components all over the place. I have a Pace Thermoflo for soldering > which works really well. Maybe you could take a regular heat gun and put > some kind of diffuser/nozzle on it to reduce the velocity of the air. I've never come to terms with air- too easy to blow components around / encourage tombstoning / set light to my fingers / throw the board across the room, screaming :) It's also difficult to get even distribution. Give me IR any day. > If you had an oven that worked, the way to go would be to paste and > place all the components you wanted to solder in the oven, reflow the > board, then hand solder the components which needed it. I find placing components onto paste soul destroying. After about 100 0603s, I'd lose concentration, my little finger would sag onto the board and I'd smear paste + components around. Now I just solder the little buggers down one at a time (or find someone else to do it, or put it out to fab). Come to think of it, I find pasting the pads soul destroying and hard on the fingers. (and hobbyists with powered pasting machines are rare, I reckon. Stencilling gear, too. Sryinge-pasting a BGA or uBGA will get _very_ dull...) One of my post-lottery-winning projects is a baby, desk-mounted PnP machine that only does passives, is PC-based and vision driven, and solders as it goes. Slow is fine, accurate is essential). Of course, not doing the lottery isn't helping :) Steve. (The 'scope I've had for the last 15 years is no more- time for a replacement analogue 'scope, preferably with cursors. Anyone got experience with Tek 2236 or 2245A as 100Meg analogue scopes, or recommendations for something better? (I'm fine for fast DSOs, this is just for analogue work)) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:39:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01795 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:39:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01791 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:39:18 +0200 Received: from fermi.eeel.nist.gov (fermi.eeel.nist.gov [129.6.185.13]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ003HW25GI4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:39:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from mclay@localhost) by fermi.eeel.nist.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24568; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:37:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael McLay Subject: BGA In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <14596.27187.202590.745317@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <4.2.0.58.20000423233051.00bc1100@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Derek Lassen writes: > I have shied away from many real cool parts because they only come in BGA. > > I think this is fear of the unknown. > > I suspect that chip makers would not use this package if board makers > didn't use them, and board makers wouldn't use them if yields were not high. The main attraction is the high pin count and the small area required for attaching the part. With chip scale packaging the size of the part is almost exactly the size of the die. For printed circuit boards that have packaging constraints, such as in a compact video camera, the parts placement is very dense. > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed > (presumeably by robotics) and the time it gets heated to reflow? A solder mask is placed over the board and a squeegee is used to apply solder paste to all the pad locations of the surface mount devices (kind of like silkscreening teeshirts). A pick and place machine then places all the surface mount parts on top of the solder on the board. For some types of parts a glue dot is applied to the board prior to placing the parts on the solder paste. The glue dots are needed for some types of parts when the parts are on the bottom side of the board. Otherwise the parts would fall off when the board goes into the reflow oven. > Is this gravity only? If so, were do I buy neutronium foil? The solder paste that is applied to the board prior to placing the part is sticky. It holds the part in place until it is reflowed. The surface tension of the solder during the reflow process will cause the parts to self align. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 17:59:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01864 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:59:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01860 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:59:35 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ0041B339F4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:59:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.28] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AEE65C2101EC; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:57:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:02:53 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: BGA To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3904702D.2A270805@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <00042409050502.16215@localhost.localdomain> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I see a couple of camps forming - one to figure an easier technique for hobbyists to solder bga chips and the other to locate an adapter. Hopefully we both will come to a successful resolution to give people a choice. Perhaps an adapter could be designed and manufactured specifically for this application? Then again, if a majority of the Lart users are going to have their boards pre-fabbed and assembled, perhaps this isn't much of an issue after all - as long as the core Lart team can get their prototyping done to develop for these chips. Surely the fab houses can handle bga and ubga. Doug Moreen wrote: > > The bga adaptors I saw at http://www.adaptors.com seemed to me to be only for > prototyping. they were designed the bga chip sitting upside down with a cable > running off the chip to whatever you needed to to connect to. I'm going to > continue to look at different mounting technologies. I'd hate to not be able to > use the SA1110 due it being a BGA chip. For future performance of the LART I > think the SA1110 is required. I for one feel that 600mhz would greatly increase > the number of applications that this platform could be used for. > > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 18:02:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01882 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:02:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01878 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:02:51 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ0040X38PIG@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:02:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12jlG4-0000Kv-00; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:58:48 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12jlG3-0001hy-00; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:58:47 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:58:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: re: BGA In-reply-to: <00042409050502.16215@localhost.localdomain> X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: Doug Moreen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Another possible BGA adapter is available from http://www.advintcorp.com. Never used em and don't have pricing, but they look to be much more useful as prototype or small-run production tools than debugging. I'm not planning on pursuing it at the moment ... too anxious to play with the SA-1100 first :-) BGAs are great for a system designer who is fighting for real estate. However they are really awful for home builders (or even small builders). As the discussion has been showing, the reflow is not exactly trivial. But even if you have a profile-controlled non-food oven you can use to do reflow correctly, the bigger problem (IMO) is testing. With BGA's you can't see the solder to know if you accidentally installed any 0-ohm resistors. (As I recall, that was one of the drivers for the increased popularity of JTAG.) Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of cool parts that only come in BGA. --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 18:24:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01970 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:24:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01966 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:24:56 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ0051B49I3D@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:24:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.37] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4548158020C; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:20:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:25:58 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Is it possible for LART+KSB+Ethernet combo for just $60 ? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39047596.F1577BA@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <00f201bfae03$d233ac80$b8c7df8b@p400> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Re-price that with 100 Lart, 100 KSB (both same dimensions) and eth (dimensions unknown, but smaller) and see what you get. Additionally, I think we've reached or are about to reach 200 on the requests, so recalculate for 200 (if there is any difference in price each from 100 count)... I suspect that assembled and tested the boards may be approx $250 each if not just a little more - but then I consider that money well spent since if I tried to do it all myself I'd end up spending over $600+ each for a small run for my personal use... I think the $60 estimation was for bare-board and Lart only. Mike "Li, Yi-Shin" wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > Fully assembled > > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jurgen Kramer wrote: > > > >We're planning to do a 100+ run soonish; it's probably doable to sell > extra > > > >blanks to interested parties. Expect around $60 for a > LART-KSB-Ethernet > > > >combo. > > The total price of 100 LART PCB(6 layer, 10x7(cm)) in Taiwan is about : > Setup Fee ($666.6) + Film Fee ($19.89) + PCB fee($3.99) * qty (100) > ~=$1084.39 > ==> > The price of bare PCB of Lart is about $10.84 here in Taiwan. (100 qty) > The board stuffing fee is about $10 here. > This doesn't include any component used in LART yet. > > If you could supply the LART+KSB+Ethernet combo for $60, > please put me down for one. I will pay you $120 for it, because > that's the price for LART only by my estimating. > > Regards, > yslee -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 18:46:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02052 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:46:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02048 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:46:02 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTJ005C158O3D@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:46:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA27533; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:28:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: BGA & the 1101 To: dogman@bitterroot.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200004241628.MAA27533"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: pnhDaOpCq9EaSJkmUyANXw== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Seems like everything I've posted to the list over the weekend hasn't made it here. :( Maybe I only replied to a person and forgot to cc the list. Anyway, I hope this propogates. On Pioneer, the 1101 chip costs ~$50, but it looks like they don't normally stock them. Advanced Interconnects (www.bgasockets.com) has 3 types of sockets. They also have a program where you can ask them to send you samples. I asked for a sample of their "True BGA Socket" and the "BGA Socket Adapter System" Also, I'm waiting for price quotes from the two of their distributors who service Michigan. Barry >The bga adaptors I saw at http://www.adaptors.com seemed to me to be only for >prototyping. they were designed the bga chip sitting upside down with a cable >running off the chip to whatever you needed to to connect to. I'm going to >continue to look at different mounting technologies. I'd hate to not be able to >use the SA1110 due it being a BGA chip. For future performance of the LART I >think the SA1110 is required. I for one feel that 600mhz would greatly increase >the number of applications that this platform could be used for. > >Doug Moreen >dogman@bitterroot.net >AllBoot.Com >http://www.allboot.com >814 Priscilla Way >Hamilton, MT 59840 >406-375-0566 > >Kira Brown wrote: >> >> On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: >> >> > How does one hold the part in place between the time it is placed >> > (presumeably by robotics) >> >> ..you can do it by hand without too much difficulty... > >Er. I can't. And I regularly solder .5mm pin pitch QFPs. (About 3 >minutes for a 240 pin part, including washing.) >There are machines to let you set up the placement, and rumour has it >they're good, but I've not seen one. They're hardly hobbyist-priced. >I'd be more tempted by a fuzz-button socket, assuming they're still >available, plus carefully crafted mounting features on the PCB. I also >saw something similar at http://www.adapers.com that I think I'll >investigate further. > >> > and the time it gets heated to reflow? >> >> Glue. > >Glue used in most SMD processes assumes that the component is very >close to the board. For BGAs, this isn't the case. I know that the >assembly house doing BGA reflow for my current employer don't glue the >BGAs down- that would lose the lovely self-centering action of 200-odd >solder joints' surface tension, and BGAs are no more prone to wandering >over the board before reflow than any other component- you've got to be >careful moving the panel whatever's on it (unless it's all pin-mount, >in which case, feel free to kick it around the shop, as long as it's >all clinched...) > >Steve. > >Look, people. SA1100 qfp is a _nice_ chip for development for >LART-style devices, where size isn't a critical driver. BGA is a pain >in the butt. Assembly, inspection and rework are all essentially >impossible for home users. QFP on the other hand, is just a bit fiddly. >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > >-- > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 19:04:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02109 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:04:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02105 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:04:51 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ005MF6412R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:04:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.21] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADDDBAD10218; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:01:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:07:14 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39047F42.2CAEDBB2@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Of course - we're forgetting about the people who created the Lart - if we got them the chips (sa-1110 and sa-1111), and/or the adapter if they needed it, would they _want_ to use them in the design? We're sitting here running around batting ideas about without thinking about what these guys are wanting to do. So, Lart developers - would you be willing to explore the sa-1110/1111 option and the bga package? If you had bga adapters for prototyping, would that make a difference? If you checked your mail and found all this, would you use it? Mike Chris Curtis wrote: > > Another possible BGA adapter is available from http://www.advintcorp.com. > Never used em and don't have pricing, but they look to be much more useful > as prototype or small-run production tools than debugging. I'm not > planning on pursuing it at the moment ... too anxious to play with the > SA-1100 first :-) > > BGAs are great for a system designer who is fighting for real estate. > However they are really awful for home builders (or even small builders). > As the discussion has been showing, the reflow is not exactly trivial. But > even if you have a profile-controlled non-food oven you can use to do > reflow correctly, the bigger problem (IMO) is testing. With BGA's you > can't see the solder to know if you accidentally installed any 0-ohm > resistors. (As I recall, that was one of the drivers for the increased > popularity of JTAG.) > > Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of cool parts that only come in BGA. > > --Chris > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 23:18:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02983 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:18:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02979 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:18:34 +0200 From: efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com Received: from cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com [24.8.41.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00D7XHUSCW@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:18:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (efort@localhost) by cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26078 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:18:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: lcd displays - was Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I did some checking on lcd displays. I've found the following as lart candidates: 640*480 color TFT VGA 7 INCH DIAGNAL: $400 US 320*240 MONOCROME 7 inch diagnal W/ TOUCH: $40-60 US there ARE other choices but this gives a rough idea of the range we're talking about. given these 2 choices what would you guys be prone to pick. I'd vote for the mono w/ touch. eric On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > Please do see what kind of displays are buyable. > So DO start checking prices please, using the 200 count as a starting point > with the suppliers. Tell them that this is an open source hardware project, and > that this might be a way of selling very large numbers of displays in the > future, if they treat us right. > thanks > > > > > did you say lcd displays? > > > > > the above points need to be openly discussed and hopefully enough of us > > can come to a group consensus on a display to standardize upon. I > > volunteer to do the necessary research on cost and availability for > > various options, negotiate for best price, and order/distribute the > > lcd panels when they come to be needed. > > > > Doug Moreen > dogman@bitterroot.net > AllBoot.Com > http://www.allboot.com > 814 Priscilla Way > Hamilton, MT 59840 > 406-375-0566 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Apr 24 23:50:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA03187 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:50:07 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03183 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:50:07 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00AIDJBHNZ@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:50:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.46] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A112118902A4; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:48:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:54:07 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: lcd displays - was Re: a small proposal Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3904C27F.807F96B9@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Depends on application. Personally, I'd go with the color on some applications and mono on others so I'd have to vote both... And that's both for myself because I do have a few different areas I wish to explore with the Lart... Mike BTW - For you game programmers - Sam confirmed that he did get SDL to compile on the StrongArm architecture... efort@cc400672-a.srst1.fl.home.com wrote: > > I did some checking on lcd displays. I've found the following as lart > candidates: > > 640*480 color TFT VGA 7 INCH DIAGNAL: $400 US > 320*240 MONOCROME 7 inch diagnal W/ TOUCH: $40-60 US > > there ARE other choices but this gives a rough idea of the range we're > talking about. given these 2 choices what would you guys be prone to > pick. > > I'd vote for the mono w/ touch. > > eric -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 00:42:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03361 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:42:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03357 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:42:14 +0200 Received: from dotplanet.com ([209.144.132.197]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00FF9LQDCB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:42:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LsustanoD2.SMSCORP.NET [209.211.240.254] by dotplanet.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADAC27E0070; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:41:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:41:12 -0700 From: Leo Johan Susanto Subject: Re: lcd displays - was Re: a small proposal To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <009d01bfae3e$318701c0$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk eric, what quantity you have requested them? 100? thanks for the troubles leo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 2:18 PM Subject: lcd displays - was Re: a small proposal > I did some checking on lcd displays. I've found the following as lart > candidates: > > 640*480 color TFT VGA 7 INCH DIAGNAL: $400 US > 320*240 MONOCROME 7 inch diagnal W/ TOUCH: $40-60 US > > > there ARE other choices but this gives a rough idea of the range we're > talking about. given these 2 choices what would you guys be prone to > pick. > > I'd vote for the mono w/ touch. > > eric > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Doug Moreen wrote: > > > Please do see what kind of displays are buyable. > > > > > So DO start checking prices please, using the 200 count as a starting point > > with the suppliers. Tell them that this is an open source hardware project, and > > that this might be a way of selling very large numbers of displays in the > > future, if they treat us right. > > thanks > > > > > > > > did you say lcd displays? > > > > > > > > the above points need to be openly discussed and hopefully enough of us > > > can come to a group consensus on a display to standardize upon. I > > > volunteer to do the necessary research on cost and availability for > > > various options, negotiate for best price, and order/distribute the > > > lcd panels when they come to be needed. > > > > > > > Doug Moreen > > dogman@bitterroot.net > > AllBoot.Com > > http://www.allboot.com > > 814 Priscilla Way > > Hamilton, MT 59840 > > 406-375-0566 > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 01:24:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03601 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:24:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03597 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:24:30 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00G5GNORRR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:24:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id QAA2833093 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:19:23 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: LART PCBs now available To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <3904D67B.9703FD73@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4A15A4E52205929CEE6E8D68" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4A15A4E52205929CEE6E8D68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, I just picked up a stack of LART PC Boards from the fabricator this afternoon. Taking a quick look at them under my inspection microscope they look pretty good all-in-all. I'll try and post additional details on how to submit order requests later today after I've checked them more carefully. Theses are the bare PC boards not the assembled version. Greg Fountain Menlo Park, California --------------4A15A4E52205929CEE6E8D68 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------4A15A4E52205929CEE6E8D68-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 02:15:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03712 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:15:37 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03708; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:15:20 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39047F42.2CAEDBB2@mjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:07:39 +0200 To: Michael Vanecek From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > So, Lart developers - would you be willing >to explore the sa-1110/1111 option and the bga package? If you had bga >adapters for prototyping, would that make a difference? If you checked >your mail and found all this, would you use it? Maybe. There's another issue besides the BGA one: time. Redoing LART for SA-1100 may take weeks; I don't have that amount of schedulable time ATM. Honestly I don't see the big deal in going for the SA-1110: you don't gain much in functionality or processing power. The advantages of the SA-1110 over the SA-1100 mainly show in very high volume applications. Personally I'd rather wait for the SA-2 (or pester Intel to get samples), or invest my design time in ClusterLART / FPGA boards. Of course it would be nice to have a '1110 (+'1111) board anyway; I'm investigating some low-effort ways to get there from here. Having actual SA-1110 chips on my desk would speed up the proto testing *if/when I find an easy way to get a PCB design*. In this stage I'd keep my money in my pocket if I were you. JDB. -- "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 03:17:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03833 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:17:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03829 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:17:29 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00I2DSX3NX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:17:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.7] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A124227502A2; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:13:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:19:17 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3904F295.7A1B22FB@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk That settles that - back-burner that idea for later. sa-2 huh? I wonder how far Intel will take the StrongArm. Please, still post a wishlist on the net for those of us who would like to help... Mike BTW - are you guys keeping development "in house" or can others get involved? > Maybe. > > There's another issue besides the BGA one: time. Redoing LART for SA-1100 > may take weeks; I don't have that amount of schedulable time ATM. Honestly > I don't see the big deal in going for the SA-1110: you don't gain much in > functionality or processing power. The advantages of the SA-1110 over the > SA-1100 mainly show in very high volume applications. Personally I'd rather > wait for the SA-2 (or pester Intel to get samples), or invest my design > time in ClusterLART / FPGA boards. > > Of course it would be nice to have a '1110 (+'1111) board anyway; I'm > investigating some low-effort ways to get there from here. Having actual > SA-1110 chips on my desk would speed up the proto testing *if/when I find > an easy way to get a PCB design*. In this stage I'd keep my money in my > pocket if I were you. > > JDB. > > -- > "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 > bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been > at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 03:46:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03916 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:46:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03912 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:46:15 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg ([192.122.139.253]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00IEWU90NX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:46:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailbox.krdl.org.sg [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10962; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:32:59 +0800 (SGT) Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11862; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:31:54 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:32:48 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: parallel port low level driver for StrongARM SA1100 To: lart , arm , parport Message-id: <3904F5C0.E9D517B@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/N8t5n2VSZo3oXQdo5wDTQ)" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/N8t5n2VSZo3oXQdo5wDTQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hi all, I have got the low level driver working in some degree (no irq, no dma, etc.) I posted here for anyone interested in it. It is closely tighted to my board's implementation, if you want to use it, you have to change those IO assignment. By the way, I am using kernel 2.3.99-pre3-rmk1-np2. have fun. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com --Boundary_(ID_/N8t5n2VSZo3oXQdo5wDTQ) Content-type: application/x-unknown-content-type-cfile; name=parport_arm.c Content-disposition: inline; filename=parport_arm.c Content-transfer-encoding: base64 LyogTG93LWxldmVsIHBhcmFsbGVsIHBvcnQgcm91dGluZXMgZm9yIFN0cm9uZ0FSTSBTQTEx MDANCiAqIA0KICogQXV0aG9yOiBaaHUgUXVuIFlpbmcgPHF5emh1QGtyZGwub3JnLnNnPg0K ICoNCiAqIENvcHlyaWdodCAoQykgMjAwMA0KICoNCiAqIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIHVuZGVyIHRl cm1zIG9mIEdQTA0KICogdXNlIEdQSU8gcGlucyBmb3IgcGFyYWxsZWwgaW50ZXJmYWNlIA0K ICovDQoNCi8qIEZvciBteSBib2FyZCwgdGhlIHBpbiBsYXlvdXQgaXMgYXMgZm9sbG93cw0K ICoNCiAqIEdQSU8zOgljb250cm9sIGJ1ZmZlciBkaXJlY3Rpb24gY29udHJvbCAoMSBmb3J3 YXJkIGFsd2F5cykNCiAqIEdQSU8yOglkYXRhIGJ1ZmZlciBkaXJlY3Rpb24gY29udHJvbCAo 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read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 04:27:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA04027 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:27:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA04023 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:27:24 +0200 Received: from manhattan.insomnia.org (manhattan.insomnia.org [216.254.63.164]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00JJ4W5L1C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:27:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from insomnia.org (trust.insomnia.org [216.254.63.169]) by manhattan.insomnia.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e3P2Npt04946 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:23:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:23:42 -0400 From: Patrick Cantwell Subject: Interesting idea for a LART module. To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: seamus@insomnia.org Message-id: <390501AE.C7A8385A@insomnia.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm new to the list, so I'll start with the introduction.. :) I'm Pat (and I'm a geek!) ;^) anyway.. I was just sitting around, and I thought of a neat idea for a LART module.. (this works in tune with those who want to use their LARTs as routers) -- a DSL line module.. Motorola as well as others make the decoding chips, and IIRC many of the chips handled the different line standards in use by the different ILECs and CLECs providing DSL around the US today (I don't know much about international DSL unfortunately).. at any rate, you could have a DSL module and an ethernet module and boom, no more need for that expensive flowpoint 2200 =) Pat -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 05:05:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04138 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:05:46 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04133; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:05:42 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3904F295.7A1B22FB@mjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:03:39 +0200 To: Michael Vanecek From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 03:19 +0200 25-04-2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: >That settles that - back-burner that idea for later. sa-2 huh? I wonder >how far Intel will take the StrongArm. Please, still post a wishlist on >the net for those of us who would like to help... Will do once I find the time. >BTW - are you guys keeping development "in house" or can others get >involved? I would really really REALLY like others to get involved, but for that we need a common data format (like C is for software) and possibly free tools (think GNU, gcc). JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 05:15:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04164 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:15:40 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04160 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:15:40 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTJ00K7MYE22G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:15:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12jvnZ-0008NS-00; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:14:05 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12jvnY-0000o7-00; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:14:04 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:14:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Testability thought... In-reply-to: X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In looking at the KSB schematics I noticed that the 74LVC16245 and '16373 are listed as "obsolete" by TI. While they obviously will be kicking around for a while, and I'm *not* suggesting the KSB be reworked just yet (!) I did have a thought ... If those bus drivers were replaced with 74LVTH18502's (works for both) we'd get both extremely low power and (drum roll) more JTAG parts! Since they're on a lot of lines going to/from the SA-1100, it's an ideal spot to test the PCB's and interconnect. Yes, I realize that at the moment there isn't much other than the SA to talk JTAG to, but I'm looking ahead to what happens when you wan to hook 20 or so LARTs to an FPGA crossbar switch. Then I think I'd want internal test points EVERYwhere. Plus I want open source[1] JTAG software. :-) Thoughts? --Chris [1] OSS != GPL -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 06:04:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04308 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:04:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04295 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:04:53 +0200 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK00KK40O42G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:04:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pe6s03a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.227.231] helo=rentbert) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12jwZg-0002lQ-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:03:50 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:03:32 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: Modem... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <002501bfae6b$410d7d40$0f52fea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Has any one found a good(cheap in small quantities) modem chip/board for the lart, because i would really like to have an on board one because it would be easier(IMO) than puting PCMCIA capabilities and would use less power(?) so i think this is the best way of getting a modem onto the lart/KSB board. also the bus on the lart is 100Mb/s right? so is there away to get it to go faster or would u need to change the chip? i sayn this because i plan to use it quite intensivly for graphics /=) and would like to get the most out of the graphics adapter and leave plenty of space on the bus for other things.... btw i dont know if you can get them, i have not found one anyway...but i would like to have an onboard GPS reciever, preferably a chip/board add-on but i dont mind if i have to buy a whole handset and take it apart...my lart has to have GPS=) -Raphael -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 06:05:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04324 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:05:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04320 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:05:47 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTK00KPS0PL3H@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:05:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cogeco-80-25.cgocable.net (HELO co484059a) (24.141.80.25) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:02:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:02:24 -0400 From: Randy Glenn Subject: RE: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] In-reply-to: To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: picxpert@yahoo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Apparently-From: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What about gEDA? Open-source electronic design tools. http://www.geda.seul.org/ They've got schematic capture, PCB design, Verilog, SPICE, etc. - all free! Plus, links to other free Electronics software. -Randy Glenn PICxpert@techie.com - http://i.am/PICxpert "Is this a wretched demi-bee, half asleep upon my knee, Some freak, from a menagerie? NO! It's Eric, the half a bee!" - Monty Python -----Original Message----- From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of J.D. Bakker Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:04 PM To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] At 03:19 +0200 25-04-2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: >That settles that - back-burner that idea for later. sa-2 huh? I wonder >how far Intel will take the StrongArm. Please, still post a wishlist on >the net for those of us who would like to help... Will do once I find the time. >BTW - are you guys keeping development "in house" or can others get >involved? I would really really REALLY like others to get involved, but for that we need a common data format (like C is for software) and possibly free tools (think GNU, gcc). JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 06:08:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04371 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:08:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04367 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:08:49 +0200 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK00KLN0UP2G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:08:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pe6s03a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.227.231] helo=rentbert) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12jweS-0002nJ-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:08:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:08:33 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: Re: LART PCBs now available To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <004a01bfae6b$f1154560$0f52fea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3904D67B.9703FD73@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk ok cool..but how much? and how much is the shipping to wales,UK? thanks. -Raphael ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fountain To: Lart Mail Server Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 12:19 AM Subject: LART PCBs now available > Hello everyone, > > I just picked up a stack of LART PC Boards from the fabricator this > afternoon. Taking a quick look at them under my inspection microscope > they look pretty good all-in-all. > > I'll try and post additional details on how to submit order requests > later today after I've checked them more carefully. > > Theses are the bare PC boards not the assembled version. > > Greg Fountain > Menlo Park, California > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 08:05:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04598 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:05:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04594 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:05:29 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK00MAU693FH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:05:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id XAA2966643 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:00:23 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: How to request a LART PC Board To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <39053477.193F9C79@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1B75123DCC858084E0F80D43" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1B75123DCC858084E0F80D43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the info on how to request a LART PC Board (Remember theses are just the bare PC boards not assembled units) PRICE PER BOARD: $45 US Right now I have about 40 boards I can spare. I would like to limit the maximum number for any one individual to 5. That way a larger number of people can get their hands on one if they want to try assembling a LART themselves. PC Board description: COPPER LAYERS: 6 (1/2 Ounce copper) MATERIAL: FR-4 BOARD SIZE: 3.94"(100mm) x 2.95"(75mm) x 0.062 thick AREA: 11.62 sq.in. SILKSCREEN: Top & Bottom Color: White PLATING FINISH: Horizontal Hot Air Solder Level SOLDER MASK: Type: SMOBC (LPI) Top & Botttom Color: Green I'll try and take a few 35 mm close-up photos with a Macro Lens tomorrow and have them placed directly on a Photo CD-ROM. If you send me an e-mail, I'll reply with a few JPEG attachments so you can see what the board(s) actually look like. If your interested here is what I NEED FROM YOU: 1.) Your NAME, PHONE NUMBER and E-mail address 2.) QUANTITY REQUIRED 3.) A COMPLETE ADDRESS (Spelled out on a line by line basis) 4.) Check or Money Order made Payable to TELVEX (# of PC Boards x $45 + Shipping) SHIPPING: Assume Priority Mail (for US shipments) or Global Priority Mail For US Domestic Shipping add $3.20 for US Postal Service Priority Mail For International Shipping Check the US Postal Service Global Priority Mail Website http://ircalc.usps.gov/ Use Package (No correspondence enclosed) Here is my INFO Greg Fountain Post Office Box 913 Palo Alto, CA 94302 USA FAX: 650-854-2465 Voice: 650-854-6626 E-mail: greg@telvex.com Please don't call and leave a verbal order. I think there will be fewer mistakes and everyone will be happier in the long run if we have a written record. Regarding International orders. The processing of US orders should be a snap for me but I have to admit the International currency conversion issue sounds like a potential pain. Anyone have any suggestions to address this subject? WARRANTY: NONE. Boards were fabricated from the gerber files posted on the LART website (http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/) They look good under an inspection microscope and do not have any power to ground plane shorts to the best of my knowledge. Since I have yet to assembled and tested a complete LART so your risk is about the same as mine. (actually less since you will not have to eat the cost associated with any unused boards) I will not cash any checks or ship any PC boards until I've completed a check against the schematics. I would however like to get started on a list of potential co-developers ASAP. Cheers Greg --------------1B75123DCC858084E0F80D43 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------1B75123DCC858084E0F80D43-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 10:00:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04866 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:00:10 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04858; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:00:00 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:55:03 +0200 To: picxpert@yahoo.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: RE: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 06:02 +0200 25-04-2000, Randy Glenn wrote: >What about gEDA? Open-source electronic design tools. >http://www.geda.seul.org/ > >They've got schematic capture, PCB design, Verilog, SPICE, etc. - all free! >Plus, links to other free Electronics software. I know; see my message to the list entitled "Open Source CAD tools" dated April 15. Trouble is it isn't quite ready yet; it needs software developers (hint, hint ;-)). JDB [down to 2.5 hours of sleep] -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 10:39:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05067 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:39:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05063 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:39:51 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK006RJDEE9R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:39:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.128) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:23:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:23:43 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: re: GPS wanted on LART In-reply-to: <002501bfae6b$410d7d40$0f52fea9@rentbert> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000425012204.00b2de60@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There is a SIMM sized GPS receiver board available for < $100 At 05:03 AM 4/25/00 +0100, you wrote: >Has any one found a good(cheap in small quantities) modem chip/board for the >lart, because i would really like to have an on board one >because it would be easier(IMO) than puting PCMCIA capabilities and would >use less power(?) so i think this is the best way of getting a modem onto >the lart/KSB board. > >also the bus on the lart is 100Mb/s right? >so is there away to get it to go faster or would u need to change the chip? >i sayn this because >i plan to use it quite intensivly for graphics /=) and would like to get the >most out of the graphics adapter and leave >plenty of space on the bus for other things.... > >btw i dont know if you can get them, i have not found one anyway...but i >would like to have an onboard GPS reciever, preferably a chip/board add-on >but i dont mind if i have to buy a whole handset and take it apart...my lart >has to have GPS=) > >-Raphael > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 11:47:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05288 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:47:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05284 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:47:54 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK00CE9GIUH5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:47:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.53]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA05355; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:42:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:42:51 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] In-reply-to: To: "'J.D. Bakker'" , "'Michael Vanecek'" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000601bfae9a$a07e6da0$351a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk As I have posted earlier I have a connection to a company willing to do low volume (10-30) mounting and X-ray verification of BGA packages. Right now I'm setting up production of LARTs etc. myself to sell at low prices and high volume to all of you :) Surely I can inlude delivering almost-bare boards with only the BGA's mounted. Especially to you JDB, even for free. Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of J.D. Bakker > Sent: 24 April, 2000 23:08 > To: Michael Vanecek > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] > > > > So, Lart developers - would you be willing > >to explore the sa-1110/1111 option and the bga package? If > you had bga > >adapters for prototyping, would that make a difference? If > you checked > >your mail and found all this, would you use it? > > Maybe. > > There's another issue besides the BGA one: time. Redoing LART > for SA-1100 > may take weeks; I don't have that amount of schedulable time > ATM. Honestly > I don't see the big deal in going for the SA-1110: you don't > gain much in > functionality or processing power. The advantages of the > SA-1110 over the > SA-1100 mainly show in very high volume applications. > Personally I'd rather > wait for the SA-2 (or pester Intel to get samples), or invest > my design > time in ClusterLART / FPGA boards. > > Of course it would be nice to have a '1110 (+'1111) board anyway; I'm > investigating some low-effort ways to get there from here. > Having actual > SA-1110 chips on my desk would speed up the proto testing > *if/when I find > an easy way to get a PCB design*. In this stage I'd keep my > money in my > pocket if I were you. > > JDB. > > -- > "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 > bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been > at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 11:54:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05314 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:54:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05310 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:54:28 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK00DFIGUR63@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:54:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.128) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:38:21 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:38:27 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: re GPS module X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000425023706.00b23690@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Sorry - I forgot to post the URL to see the module. Its at http://www.sigem.com/datasheets/SGM5608PM.pdf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 15:36:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05939 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:36:04 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05935; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:35:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:21:50 +0200 To: Chris Curtis From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Testability thought... Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:14 +0200 25-04-2000, Chris Curtis wrote: >In looking at the KSB schematics I noticed that the 74LVC16245 and '16373 >are listed as "obsolete" by TI. That's just me being sloppy with the part specifications. I meant the '16245A (and '16373A); those are active. The same footprints support the newer ALV devices BTW. For the LART protos I actually use the Philips 74LVT162245BDL as those were easily obtainable (and have built in series termination resistors, which is a Good Thing for driving IDE cables). >If those bus drivers were replaced with 74LVTH18502's (works for both) >we'd get both extremely low power and (drum roll) more JTAG parts! Since >they're on a lot of lines going to/from the SA-1100, it's an ideal spot to >test the PCB's and interconnect. Erm yes, but those are US$15 each in qty 1000, versus $1 for the regular ones. Three of those devices amount to over half the KSB component cost. An alternative may be to use CPLDs for address/data buffering; most newer devices support JTAG. The Xilinx (formerly Philips) CoolRunners sound attractive in that respect. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 16:04:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06027 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:04:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06023 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:04:09 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTK0092ZSERM3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:04:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12k5ra-0004gf-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:58:54 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12k5rZ-0005NP-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:58:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:58:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Re: Testability thought... In-reply-to: X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Chris Curtis , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 05:14 +0200 25-04-2000, Chris Curtis wrote: > That's just me being sloppy with the part specifications. I meant the > '16245A (and '16373A); those are active. The same footprints support the > newer ALV devices BTW. For the LART protos I actually use the Philips > 74LVT162245BDL as those were easily obtainable (and have built in series > termination resistors, which is a Good Thing for driving IDE cables). Hehe ... and that's just me being sloppy and not looking for the 'A' parts. Ooops. (IIRC the '18502s also have series termination resistors). > Erm yes, but those are US$15 each in qty 1000, versus $1 for the regular > ones. Three of those devices amount to over half the KSB component cost. An > alternative may be to use CPLDs for address/data buffering; most newer > devices support JTAG. The Xilinx (formerly Philips) CoolRunners sound > attractive in that respect. Oh, THAT. I'll confess to not paying too much attention to the component cost there. The CPLD idea is an interesting one, though. You'll never catch me badmouthing Xilinx, even if the part is a Philips one. There must be something we can use the CPLD to do (other than buffering) on that board. The XPLA3's are incredibly low-power, too. Plus they even come in chip-scale BGA! :-) [never fear, they come in QP as well] --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 19:30:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06573 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:30:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06569 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:30:45 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00K6T1Z6MC@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:30:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.7] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A5C9320902A4; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:28:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:35:11 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Assembly for StrongARM Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3905D74F.8B372D11@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'd like to try my hand at some lowlevel programming in assembly for the StrongArm architecture. I've never really done much assembly though I've gone through a fair share of tutorials (all for the x86 platform) and am familiar with using nasm and gasm. Do you guys have a recommendation for a good resource of information for a non-expert assembly programmer wannabe? I program currently in c, c++, php, perl, etc... (I wonder if ada compiles on the StrongArm architecture?) and would like to get under the hood a little more... Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 20:13:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06749 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:13:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06745 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:13:39 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00LH03YPUJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:13:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id NAA01578; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:10:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:10:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM In-reply-to: <3905D74F.8B372D11@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004251810.NAA01578@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mike wrote... > I'd like to try my hand at some lowlevel programming in assembly for the > StrongArm architecture.... You will need the instruction set documents, go to the LART docs page and look down for the ARM7 Data sheet and quick reference card. Ignore the `thumb' instructions. StrongARM does not have them. Next you will need an assembler and a test platform. gas works fine although its a thin assembler intended for compiler back ends. Back when `real men' used assemblers, assemblers were much better. For a test platform, gdb can be built with an ARM simulator in it as a backend. Read the gdb manual for that one (not man page, manual). I also provide accounts on a StrongARM machine for any developer that asks. You could do that as well. > (I wonder if > ada compiles on the StrongArm architecture?)... I cross compiled gnat onto the m88k many years ago. It could be done for ARM. I thought about it as part of my Debian porting efforts but then decided it would be wasted effort since the odds were no one would ever use it. A large contingent of Ada programmers eager to use the ARM could persuade me otherwise, or I might just ROFL. :-) -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 21:22:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06981 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:22:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06977 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:22:53 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL0020T7633D@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:22:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12kAv4-0000QB-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:22:50 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kAv3-0002Xy-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:22:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:22:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM In-reply-to: <200004251810.NAA01578@core.federated.com> X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: Jim Studt Cc: Michael Vanecek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > You will need the instruction set documents, go to the LART docs > page and look down for the ARM7 Data sheet and quick reference card. > Ignore the `thumb' instructions. StrongARM does not have them. > There is rather a good intro to ARM assembly (including some more advanced corners) in the "Programming Techniques" manual included in the ARM SDT. The current, commercial version is expensive, but if you can get the university edition the docs alone are worth it, I think. I'm learning it myself, and they help a lot. I'm beginning to see why so many people like the ARM instruction set. > Next you will need an assembler and a test platform. > > gas works fine although its a thin assembler intended for compiler > back ends. Back when `real men' used assemblers, assemblers were much > better. The university SDT includes the ARM compiler and assembler, but under a university license. I'm not sure how the license applies to the documentation, or I'd share the PDF files I have. > For a test platform, gdb can be built with an ARM simulator in it as > a backend. Read the gdb manual for that one (not man page, manual). > I also provide accounts on a StrongARM machine for any developer that > asks. You could do that as well. > I cross compiled gnat onto the m88k many years ago. It could be done > for ARM. I thought about it as part of my Debian porting efforts but > then decided it would be wasted effort since the odds were no one would > ever use it. A large contingent of Ada programmers eager to use the > ARM could persuade me otherwise, or I might just ROFL. :-) Oddly enough, my near-term intentions for my LART when I get it are to port GNAT/RTEMS to it. So that sounds to me like at least 3 who'd like to see AdaLART. I make no apologies for liking Ada. :-) --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 21:30:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07027 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:30:14 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07023 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:30:13 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL001LA7IB71@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:30:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.88] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A141AE2006E; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:25:53 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:32:27 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3905F2CB.10F72A46@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004251810.NAA01578@core.federated.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've always been "familiar" with assembly, but only recently did I discover it - there is just a tremendous amount of power and speed that can be had with assembly that would otherwise not be as available from higher level languages. I've started mulling over the hello-world program again to reaquaint myself with it. I think for imbedded applications, even though we have a whole 4 megs of Rom and 32 megs of Ram, assembly would probably be the way to go not just for drivers but for application coding as well... Of course, I'm still exploring Ada95 which seems to be another embedded optimized language. Perhaps Lart can put up a code page that we can post our apps too? Mike Jim Studt wrote: > > Mike wrote... > > I'd like to try my hand at some lowlevel programming in assembly for the > > StrongArm architecture.... > > You will need the instruction set documents, go to the LART docs > page and look down for the ARM7 Data sheet and quick reference card. > Ignore the `thumb' instructions. StrongARM does not have them. > > Next you will need an assembler and a test platform. > > gas works fine although its a thin assembler intended for compiler > back ends. Back when `real men' used assemblers, assemblers were much > better. > > For a test platform, gdb can be built with an ARM simulator in it as > a backend. Read the gdb manual for that one (not man page, manual). > I also provide accounts on a StrongARM machine for any developer that > asks. You could do that as well. > > > (I wonder if > > ada compiles on the StrongArm architecture?)... > > I cross compiled gnat onto the m88k many years ago. It could be done > for ARM. I thought about it as part of my Debian porting efforts but > then decided it would be wasted effort since the odds were no one would > ever use it. A large contingent of Ada programmers eager to use the > ARM could persuade me otherwise, or I might just ROFL. :-) > > -- > Jim Studt, President > The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 21:45:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07185 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:45:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07181 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:44:59 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL0022Y86YUF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:44:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.88] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4E31CB0006E; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:41:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:47:55 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Make Way for the Palm... Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3905F66B.35856369@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Apparently SA is making an impact - now Palm is moving over to the Arm/StrongArm architecture. I wonder what future developments in the SA are being planned now that demand is in the increase? And I wonder when some creative person with a Rom programmer is going to stick Linux on the new Palms? Story from Slashdot... Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 22:20:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07358 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:20:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07354 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:20:21 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL002PC9TWUF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:20:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFED74811; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:11:57 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:11:57 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM In-reply-to: <3905D74F.8B372D11@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > I'd like to try my hand at some lowlevel programming in assembly for the > StrongArm architecture. ARM assembly is utterly beautiful. (RISC OS veteran) kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 22:33:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07408 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:33:59 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07404 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:33:59 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06490; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:33:54 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200004252033.WAA06490@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM To: mike@mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:33:53 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <3905F2CB.10F72A46@mjv.com> from "Michael Vanecek" at Apr 25, 2000 02:32:27 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, > for application coding as well... Of course, I'm still exploring Ada95 > which seems to be another embedded optimized language. Perhaps Lart can > put up a code page that we can post our apps too? Maybe you didn't notice it, but we do have a place for that. We call it the LART Application Repository (we managed to restrain ourselves just in time before it became a recursive acronym). I intend to make a clearer distinction between ideas and actual code/hardware, and there should be enough room to indicate whether a project is software or hardware only. Please have look at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/LAR/ and feel free to comment on it. You'll see that there are enough ideas already to kep someone busy for several years. Currently I don't cross-post LAR submissions to the mailing list, so anyone interested should check that page once in a while. -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 22:54:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07488 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:54:51 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07484 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:54:50 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA09678; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004252054.WAA09678@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: mike@mjv.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM In-Reply-To: <3905F2CB.10F72A46@mjv.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:32:27 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote: > I've always been "familiar" with assembly, but only recently did I > discover it - there is just a tremendous amount of power and speed that > can be had with assembly that would otherwise not be as available from > higher level languages. I've started mulling over the hello-world Watch out for the big optimization trap over here: don't write a single line of assembly unless you're 100% sure that you're actually optimizing the correct part. The golden rule is to use a profiler before you start. > program again to reaquaint myself with it. I think for imbedded > applications, even though we have a whole 4 megs of Rom and 32 megs of > Ram, assembly would probably be the way to go not just for drivers but > for application coding as well... Of course, I'm still exploring Ada95 I don't think so. Have a look at the Linux kernel: only the very low level parts are written in assembly, the rest is plain C. Why? Because of portability and maintainability. Besides, gcc-2.95.2 generates excellent ARM code in most cases, so why bother with assembly? I agree with Kira that ARM assembly is utterly beautiful (especially when coming from i386), but that doesn't mean that it should be used for everything. > which seems to be another embedded optimized language. Perhaps Lart can > put up a code page that we can post our apps too? What about the LAR? (Oh, I see Marc just explained it) Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 23:52:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07696 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07692 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:48 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL0080NE3Z86@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12kDEF-000As0-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:50:47 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:51:42 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3906136E.4A3ABE3A@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004252054.WAA09678@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > Watch out for the big optimization trap over here: don't write a single > line of assembly unless you're 100% sure that you're actually optimizing > the correct part. The golden rule is to use a profiler before you start. Nah- to hell with it- play! Writing ARM assembler is therapeutic, especially after a hard day beating on compilers with a mind of their own :) > I don't think so. Have a look at the Linux kernel: only the very low level > parts are written in assembly, the rest is plain C. Why? Because of > portability and maintainability. Besides, gcc-2.95.2 generates excellent > ARM code in most cases, so why bother with assembly? I agree with Kira > that ARM assembly is utterly beautiful (especially when coming from i386), > but that doesn't mean that it should be used for everything. In the real world(tm) of multi-person projects, deadlines and customer-driven lunacy, yes. In an evening of hacky spodding, bringing up a new lump of hardware or whatever, treat assembly language programming as you would a crossword- very rarely useful to someone else when you've done it... It's also fun to see just how outrageously fast an instruction every 5nS really is... When I were a lad, etc etc. Steve. Back to schematics. Bah. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Apr 25 23:52:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07702 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07698 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:53 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL0080WE4486@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12kDGG-000AsD-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:52:52 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:53:47 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390613EB.45A7E5D0@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004252054.WAA09678@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I forgot to mention that the assembler syntax differs between gas(p) and SDT, and porting macros from one to the other is not always trivial... Steve. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 00:03:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07777 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:03:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07773 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:03:19 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL007MFELI1N@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:03:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.111) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:54:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:55:15 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: C Compiler and stuff X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000425145318.00c14350@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This university kit - what where (I know why) and how? Anybody know of an NT hosted C compiler / Assembler / Linker? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 00:18:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07924 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:18:25 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07920 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:18:24 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id AAA10080; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:18:23 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:18:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004252218.AAA10080@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM In-Reply-To: <3906136E.4A3ABE3A@steves-house.org.uk> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:51:42 +0100, Steve Wiseman wrote: > In the real world(tm) of multi-person projects, deadlines and > customer-driven lunacy, yes. In an evening of hacky spodding, bringing > up a new lump of hardware or whatever, treat assembly language > programming as you would a crossword- very rarely useful to someone > else when you've done it... In the real world(tm) of Linux kernel hacking one really avoids writing assembly unless absolutely necessary. And even then the gcc can be tricked into writing the wanted assembly. Assembly just has the tendency of being a WORN[1] language. > It's also fun to see just how outrageously fast an instruction every > 5nS really is... When I were a lad, etc etc. I agree, hand coded assembly can be very fast. Say JDB, how fast is the FFT code currently, or didn't you got time to work on it? Erik [1] Write Once, Read Never -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 00:28:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07958 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:28:54 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07954 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:28:53 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id AAA10135; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:28:49 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:28:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004252228.AAA10135@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: kn6td@clubnet.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: C Compiler and stuff In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000425145318.00c14350@mail.clubnet.net> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:55:15 -0700, Derek Lassen wrote: > Anybody know of an NT hosted C compiler / Assembler / Linker? Get yourself Cygwin32 from http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/ or http://www.xraylith.wisc.edu/~khan/software/gnu-win32/ . Get the necessary parts to generate a cross compiler (links are on the LART pages) and use Cygwin32 to build the i386-nt --> arm-linux cross compiler. Adam Wiggins told me it's possible, but he didn't tell me how hard it is. Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 00:51:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08062 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:51:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08058 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:51:10 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL009F0GT9EI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:51:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12kEAe-000Axl-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:51:08 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:04 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: C Compiler and stuff To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <39062194.FA87C42B@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000425145318.00c14350@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Derek Lassen wrote: > > This university kit - what where (I know why) and how? > > Anybody know of an NT hosted C compiler / Assembler / Linker? Cygwin's my favourite - gets you a bashbox + gcc. Couldn't survive without it... http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/ Steve. Aargh. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 01:11:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08322 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:11:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08318 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:11:42 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL009LTHRHIY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:11:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12kEUW-000Azo-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:11:40 +0100 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:12:36 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39062664.4C2B9DC1@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004252218.AAA10080@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > In the real world(tm) of Linux kernel hacking one really avoids writing > assembly unless absolutely necessary. And even then the gcc can be tricked > into writing the wanted assembly. Assembly just has the tendency of being > a WORN[1] language. > [1] Write Once, Read Never I dunno- sometimes, it's write once, read hundreds of times until someone points out the bleeding obvious *8-) And no, the Linux kernel is a place I wouldn't infect with lumps of ArmAsm. The x86 boys might return the favour... Steve. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 01:13:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08343 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:13:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08339 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:13:04 +0200 Received: from reflect.newenterprises.com (newenterprises.com [207.155.90.15]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00A5RHTQP0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:13:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gduncan@localhost) by reflect.newenterprises.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e3PMMTn00982 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:22:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Duncan Subject: Palm gets new body part, ARM To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Palm Computing announced today that the ARM will replace the Dragonball in future Palm devices. Here's the article: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-202-1752075.html There goes my idea for a Palm compatible LART handheld! I swear they can hear my thoughts. I certainly hope this won't cause shortages for those of us who are trying to build these things. -Glen -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 01:30:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08491 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:30:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08487 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:30:12 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00A6RIMBXO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:30:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id SAA19026; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:27:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:27:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: Assembly for StrongARM - ada status (not good) In-reply-to: <3905F2CB.10F72A46@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <200004252327.SAA19026@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mike wrote... > Of course, I'm still exploring Ada95 > which seems to be another embedded optimized language. The most recent (Oct99) release of gnat is written for gcc 2.8.1. As near as I can tell there is no ELF support for ARM in that version of gcc so it will not integrate well with the current gcc 2.95 tool chain and all the ELF libraries. Someday when a gnat based on a newer gcc is released I would have a go at ARM porting it, but until then its probably best to wait. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 01:56:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08568 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:56:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08564 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:56:09 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00AJKJTJZ1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:56:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12kFBU-0005n5-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:56:04 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kFBT-00044S-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:56:03 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:56:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Re: C Compiler and stuff In-reply-to: <39062194.FA87C42B@steves-house.org.uk> X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: Derek Lassen Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Derek Lassen wrote: > > > > This university kit - what where (I know why) and how? > > http://www.arm.com/DevSupp/UniProg/download.html For Academic Use Only. --chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 02:27:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08649 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:27:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08641 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:27:08 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00BHCL96UB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:27:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA31672; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:23:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA21614; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:25:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:25:42 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: RE: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Randy Glenn Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I did a search on freshmeat the other for CAE applications and I came across an application called yaEDA which looks pretty well done (can't try it out yet though). Here is the url: http://u2pi.dk/ David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Randy Glenn wrote: > What about gEDA? Open-source electronic design tools. > http://www.geda.seul.org/ > > They've got schematic capture, PCB design, Verilog, SPICE, etc. - all free! > Plus, links to other free Electronics software. > > -Randy Glenn > PICxpert@techie.com - http://i.am/PICxpert > > "Is this a wretched demi-bee, > half asleep upon my knee, > Some freak, from a menagerie? > NO! It's Eric, the half a bee!" - Monty Python > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of J.D. Bakker > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:04 PM > To: Michael Vanecek > Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] > > > At 03:19 +0200 25-04-2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > >That settles that - back-burner that idea for later. sa-2 huh? I wonder > >how far Intel will take the StrongArm. Please, still post a wishlist on > >the net for those of us who would like to help... > > Will do once I find the time. > > >BTW - are you guys keeping development "in house" or can others get > >involved? > > I would really really REALLY like others to get involved, but for that we > need a common data format (like C is for software) and possibly free tools > (think GNU, gcc). > > JDB. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 03:17:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08831 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:17:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08827 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:17:49 +0200 Received: from setter.infosquare.com (setter.infosquare.com [206.80.28.62]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00D2NNLN8L@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:17:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sales01.info2 (contractor1 [206.80.28.23]) by setter.infosquare.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17315 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:03:38 -0700 From: Dave Parisie Subject: openshare content management software To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: dave.parisie@infosquare.com Message-id: <013601bfaf1c$4d6e90e0$171c50ce@info2> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dear Internet User, Very Nice Site! I am with a company called infosquare.com and would like to invite you to take a look at our product. It is a content management system that allows non-technical end users to create, share, and publish information to their organizations intranet or extranet. This in theory frees the web master from converting large amounts of word and exel documents to html and allows him to attend to higher- level duties. Thanks, David Parisie Infosquare.com (408)615-6773 Dave.parisie@infosquare.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 04:27:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA08967 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:27:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA08963 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:27:54 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTL00DH6QUG8L@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:27:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA04572; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:09:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:17:38 -0400 From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] To: David Poisson Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390651C2.B2EDA8AE@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We use Pcb in-house for working on the boards for our meters. (also on freshmeat) As yet, we don't have anything approximating a complaint about it. Barry David Poisson wrote: > I did a search on freshmeat the other for CAE applications and I came > across an application called yaEDA which looks pretty well done (can't > try it out yet though). -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 06:51:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09223 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:51:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09219 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:51:45 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTL00FMXXI7DO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:51:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.38] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A5334EAF022A; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:48:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:55:44 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: openshare content management software Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390676D0.C9DD1689@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <013601bfaf1c$4d6e90e0$171c50ce@info2> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Is it me, or does this form-email (can't even take the time to put in a proper name - Dear Internet User - shuh) smack of, uhm, SPAM? Mike Dave Parisie wrote: > > Dear Internet User, > > Very Nice Site! > I am with a company called infosquare.com and would like to invite you to > take a look at our product. It is a content management system that allows > non-technical end users to create, share, and publish information to their > organizations intranet or extranet. This in theory frees the web master > from converting large amounts of word and exel documents to html and allows > him to attend to higher- level duties. > > Thanks, > > David Parisie > Infosquare.com > (408)615-6773 > Dave.parisie@infosquare.com > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 07:50:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09361 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:50:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09357 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:50:20 +0200 From: marcus.giles@deltagold.com.au Received: from phoenix.deltagold.com.au ([203.47.0.66]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00GLW07Q8W@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:50:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au (localmail.kbgm.deltagold.com.au [203.38.127.2]) by phoenix.deltagold.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01666 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:09:28 +0800 Received: by kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) id 482568CD.001FA8F3 ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:45:48 +0800 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:45:45 +0800 Subject: Re: openshare content management software To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <482568CD.001FA80F.00@kbgkal02.kbgm.deltagold.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: DELTAGOLD Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Who's up for a game of "sue the spammer" ?? Or maybe I'll just mail bomb em? :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 07:55:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09379 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:55:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09375 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:55:48 +0200 Received: from reflect.newenterprises.com (newenterprises.com [207.155.90.15]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00G7D0GYUR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:55:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gduncan@localhost) by reflect.newenterprises.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e3Q5CkC02178; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:12:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:12:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Duncan Subject: Re: openshare content management software In-reply-to: <390676D0.C9DD1689@mjv.com> To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I just pray the address doesn't end up on one of those '30 million email addresses for $39.35" spam disks. On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Is it me, or does this form-email (can't even take the time to put in a > proper name - Dear Internet User - shuh) smack of, uhm, SPAM? > > Mike > > Dave Parisie wrote: > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 10:27:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09744 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:27:13 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09740 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:27:13 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA12511; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:27:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004260827.KAA12511@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: openshare content management software In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:12:46 -0700 (PDT), Glen Duncan wrote: > I just pray the address doesn't end up on one of those '30 million email > addresses for $39.35" spam disks. I just complained at abuse@infosquare.com. Erik -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 12:43:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10183 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:43:05 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10178; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:42:38 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:31:06 +0200 To: David Poisson From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: RE: Lart Developers Wishes? [was Re: BGA] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 02:25 +0200 26-04-2000, David Poisson wrote: >I did a search on freshmeat the other for CAE applications and I came >across an application called yaEDA which looks pretty well done (can't >try it out yet though). > >Here is the url: http://u2pi.dk/ At first glance it looks like a lot of plans, more flashy graphics and even more vapourware. Not that I think they won't get anywhere -- they're just not anywhere near yet. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 14:06:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10502 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:06:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10498 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:06:49 +0200 Received: from server.isodaq.sys (dialup7.ednet.co.uk [212.20.228.70]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00HMEHNBBF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:06:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (tc@localhost) by server.isodaq.sys (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10439 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:02:24 +0100 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:02:24 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Campbell Subject: Blob and writing to on-board flash X-Sender: tc@server.isodaq.sys To: lart mailing list Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: server.isodaq.sys: tc owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk First of all, congratulations to the team on a great idea, system design and social conscience! We design and supply telemetry outstations for rainfall, water level, and sewage flow (nice!). We have used Linux for telemetry master stations for a few years, and the thought of using it in certain remote sites has great appeal. A few questions: With the LART, we would need to be able to update the on-board flash via modem. The 1.0.6 version of BLOB can't write to the onboard flash. Will this always be the case? Can other application write to the onboard flash for non-volatile storage? Most of our systems are battery powered, and do very little for most of the time except (for example) monitoring a serial port and briefly powering a few sensors every 15m. What, approximately, is the quiescent power consumption of a rev 3 LART board? Will the clock-scaling project reduce this by much, or is the DRAM refresh drain the main issue? Finally, and not wishing to be a pain, is the rev 4 LART PCB nearly done? Regards Tim Campbell Informetric Ltd (Isodaq Division) Unit 115 Stirling Enterprise Park Stirling FK7 7RP Scotland tel +44 1786 449 577 fax +44 1786 449 588 http://www.isodaq.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 14:50:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10611 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:50:25 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10607 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:50:24 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA14679; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:50:22 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:50:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004261250.OAA14679@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: tc@isodaq.co.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Blob and writing to on-board flash In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:02:24 +0100 (BST), Tim Campbell wrote: > A few questions: > > With the LART, we would need to be able to update the on-board > flash via modem. The 1.0.6 version of BLOB can't write > to the onboard flash. Will this always be the case? > Can other application write to the onboard flash for > non-volatile storage? The current problem with blob is that it should be relocated to RAM before it writes to the on board flash. There are two ways to solve it: - modify blob - modify the linux flash driver so it will work with the LART flash chips I'm currently hacking on the Linux source, so I think I'll go for that last one. > Most of our systems are battery powered, and do very little > for most of the time except (for example) monitoring a serial port > and briefly powering a few sensors every 15m. What, approximately, > is the quiescent power consumption of a rev 3 LART board? Will > the clock-scaling project reduce this by much, or is the DRAM > refresh drain the main issue? IIRC, it can at least double the battery life. In combination with CPU core voltage scaling the savings can be even more. Maybe Johan can elaborate on it. (Johan?) > Finally, and not wishing to be a pain, > is the rev 4 LART PCB nearly done? JDB told me it's done, but... he is on holiday and will return next week. Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 17:05:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11125 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:05:21 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11121 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:05:19 +0200 Received: from burns.conectiva (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTM007HPPWJII@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:05:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 2792 invoked from network); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:04:56 +0000 Received: from cartman.conectiva (HELO conectiva.com.br) (10.0.2.27) by burns.conectiva with SMTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:04:56 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:04:08 -0300 From: "Adilson G. Oliveira" Subject: LART boards ready to sell? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39070568.165F06E8@conectiva.com.br> Organization: Conectiva MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [pt_BR] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-14cl i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi! Has someone made all the LART boards and want to sell? I need PCBs and components. []s Adilson. -- It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 17:33:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11213 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:33:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11209 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:33:08 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00917R75SL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:33:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12kToD-0006CT-00; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:33:01 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kToC-00029H-00; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:33:00 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:33:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Memory Map? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I suppose this is probably relatively easily determined by rooting through the BLOB source, but I want to make sure I get it right: what does the memory map on the LART look like (currently)? Is it just strictly linear with flash starting at 0x0 and RAM following 4MB later? Thanks. --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 17:41:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11270 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:41:36 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11266 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:41:16 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id RAA16059; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:41:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:41:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004261541.RAA16059@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: cmcurtis@xmission.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Memory Map? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:33:00 -0600 (MDT), Chris Curtis wrote: > I suppose this is probably relatively easily determined by rooting through > the BLOB source, but I want to make sure I get it right: what does the > memory map on the LART look like (currently)? Is it just strictly linear > with flash starting at 0x0 and RAM following 4MB later? The Flash is from 0 to 4 MB. The main memory is a bit funny because we don't use line A23 on the DRAM: - 8MB at 0xc0000000 - 8MB at 0xc1000000 - 8MB at 0xc8000000 - 8MB at 0xc9000000 Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 18:06:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11360 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:06:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11356 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:06:38 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM009POSR0S5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:06:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12kUKi-00050f-00; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:06:36 -0600 Received: from cmcurtis (helo=localhost) by xmission.xmission.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kUKh-0003cq-00; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:06:35 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:06:35 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Curtis Subject: Re: Memory Map? In-reply-to: <200004261541.RAA16059@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: cmcurtis@xmission.xmission.com To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > The Flash is from 0 to 4 MB. The main memory is a bit funny because we > don't use line A23 on the DRAM: > > - 8MB at 0xc0000000 > - 8MB at 0xc1000000 > - 8MB at 0xc8000000 > - 8MB at 0xc9000000 > Okay, thanks! Now how about the KSB/ETH/whatever expansion space? Is there a standard map and/or way of dealing with those? --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 18:23:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11402 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:23:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11398 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:23:52 +0200 Received: from htmhell.com (mail2.halfpricehosting.com [12.30.178.247]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00BP9TJK7F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:23:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:23:25 -0400 From: Jon Steiner Subject: Re: LART boards ready to sell? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jon@htmhell.com Message-id: <200004261223.AA74383524@htmhell.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm in the market for one of these too. --Jon -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 18:44:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11477 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:42 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11473 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:42 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id SAA16516; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:36 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004261644.SAA16516@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: chris@satel.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Memory Map? In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.0 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:06:35 -0600 (MDT), Chris Curtis wrote: > Okay, thanks! Now how about the KSB/ETH/whatever expansion space? Is > there a standard map and/or way of dealing with those? Parts of the KSB will be used with the various serial ports (UCB1200, DAC, USB, IrDA), other parts will be mapped in PCMCIA space 0 (IIRC, JDB?). The standard way is described in the SA1100 manual. Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 19:12:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11564 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:12:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11560 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:12:08 +0200 Received: from dotplanet.com ([209.144.132.195]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTM00CKSVS7T7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:12:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LsustanoD2.SMSCORP.NET [209.211.240.254] by dotplanet.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A2E85FA00B8; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:10:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:10:17 -0700 From: Leo Johan Susanto Subject: Re: LART boards ready to sell? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <017801bfafa2$4bf874c0$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200004261223.AA74383524@htmhell.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk how about the assembled LART, KSB+ETH ? when they are going to be released? After monitoring these emails I got the feeling that I WILL create a zero ohm resistor ( I am not a EE but CS) . leo ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Steiner To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 9:23 AM Subject: Re: LART boards ready to sell? > I'm in the market for one of these too. > > --Jon > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 19:53:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11652 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:53:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11648 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:53:45 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTM00EF1XPKWU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:53:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 1316 invoked from network); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:51:43 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([213.224.21.58]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:51:43 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:48:01 +0200 From: PELGRIMS P Subject: Lart PCB's To: lart Reply-to: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be Message-id: <39072BD1.73AFE032@pandora.be> Organization: A MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm in the market for 2 of these Lart PCB's too. Patrick Pelgrims -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 20:28:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11795 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:28:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11791 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:28:37 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f142.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.142]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTM00G9AZBNU3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:28:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 18961 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:28:25 +0000 Received: from 161.69.248.229 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Chow Subject: Need advise for assembling LART To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000426182825.18960.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [161.69.248.229] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have been reading the mails regarding how to assemble LART. I just got my sample ICs from Maxim, and some of the ICs are very small, especially the MAX811. Can anyone give me pointers/help/advise/know-how to tackle this? Thanks. Erik ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 20:56:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11962 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:56:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11958 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:56:25 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTN00GKQ0M0YU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:56:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17562 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04341 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:51:03 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: StrongArm & Compaq To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <39073A97.E8B70BF1@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I just tripped across the iPaq H3650 Pocket PC (http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/) This thing has some very interesting specs (as described on their website): - 206 MHz StrongArm - 32 MB SDRAM - 16 MB ROM (Flash) - 1 x Serial port - 1 x USB port - 1 x IR port - 1 x Stereo I/O port - Lithium Polymer battery with upto 12 hrs life - 240 x 320 reflective, touch sensitive TFT LCD with 4K colors - Audio record with MP3 compatible playback Expansion Capabilities: - CF or PC card (mutually exclusive) Expansion Peripherals: - 32 & 64 MB memory modules (CF) - 56K v.90 modem (CF) In contacting the Compaq product center they're saying it will be available in June and as yet have no suggested retail price. Also I gather it runs WinCE 3.0 (with Microsoft's Pocket PC extensions) straight out of the box but wow this things is just screaming for a Linux port and maybe even some LART peripherals !!! Does anyone know anything more about this product ?? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 22:12:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12123 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:12:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12119 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:12:00 +0200 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTN00JN143ZGZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:11:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25119; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20840; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:06:34 -0400 From: T Sullivan Subject: Re: StrongArm & Compaq To: Mike Ingle , Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: <39074C4A.CA49AB07@envmtl.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ja References: <4.2.0.58.20000426122046.00bb9830@email.ancore.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Mike Ingle wrote: > I wonder how close it is to the ITSY, Compaqs strongarm linux based pda? I understood ITSY was a carry over from when Compaq bought DEC and that it was strictly a DEC research project ( i.e. never intended to be a commercial product) that they also tried making available to the academic community via a limited distribution. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ITSY have accelerometers in it so that as you leaned it forward, backward & sideways it acted like a mouse control on the screen (interesting idea but IMHO a little edgy for a machine intended for the retail market) and certainly no sign of any of that in the iPAQ. In addition, wasn't ITSY also wafer thin - i.e. no expansion capability or audio (any ITSY gurus who can set the story straight ?) Otherwise I was under the impression that this iPAQ thingy was a completely new design... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 22:36:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12197 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:36:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12193 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:36:07 +0200 Received: from crisp.com (crisp.com [192.41.58.20]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTN00LF658583@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:36:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crisp.com (159.encentris.com [204.0.61.159]) by crisp.com (8.8.5) id OAA07054; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:02:52 -0500 From: Kent Perrier Subject: Re: StrongArm & Compaq To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Reply-to: kent.perrier@oneco.net Message-id: <39074B6C.B6327474@crisp.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <39073A97.E8B70BF1@envmtl.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk T Sullivan wrote: > > I just tripped across the iPaq H3650 Pocket PC > (http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/) > > This thing has some very interesting specs (as described on their > website): > > - 206 MHz StrongArm > - 32 MB SDRAM > - 16 MB ROM (Flash) > - 1 x Serial port > - 1 x USB port > - 1 x IR port > - 1 x Stereo I/O port > - Lithium Polymer battery with upto 12 hrs life > - 240 x 320 reflective, touch sensitive TFT LCD with 4K colors > - Audio record with MP3 compatible playback > > Expansion Capabilities: > - CF or PC card (mutually exclusive) > > Expansion Peripherals: > - 32 & 64 MB memory modules (CF) > - 56K v.90 modem (CF) > > In contacting the Compaq product center they're saying it will be > available in June and as yet have no suggested retail price. Also I > gather it runs WinCE 3.0 (with Microsoft's Pocket PC extensions) > straight out of the box but wow this things is just screaming for a > Linux port and maybe even some LART peripherals !!! > > Does anyone know anything more about this product ?? According the rules for giveaway: 5. PRIZE AVAILABLE: One (1) Compaq iPAQ 3650 Pocket PC will be awarded. The Approximate Retail Value (AVR) of each iPAQ 3650 Pocket PC is $499.00. So I guess it will sell for ~$500 Kent -- "A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his steps." (Proverbs 14:15) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 26 23:55:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA12427 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:55:41 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA12423 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:55:40 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id XAA18077; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:55:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004262155.XAA18077@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: t.sullivan@envmtl.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: StrongArm & Compaq In-Reply-To: <39073A97.E8B70BF1@envmtl.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Wed Apr 26 23:55:26 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:51:03 -0400, T Sullivan wrote: [snip] > In contacting the Compaq product center they're saying it will be > available in June and as yet have no suggested retail price. Also I > gather it runs WinCE 3.0 (with Microsoft's Pocket PC extensions) > straight out of the box but wow this things is just screaming for a > Linux port and maybe even some LART peripherals !!! > > Does anyone know anything more about this product ?? I don't know much, but be assured: there are enough Linux people within Compaq/DEC that will port Linux to it. Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 27 00:12:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12538 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:12:30 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12534 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:12:29 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id AAA18148; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:12:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004262212.AAA18148@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: t.sullivan@envmtl.com Cc: mikei@ancore.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: StrongArm & Compaq In-Reply-To: <39074C4A.CA49AB07@envmtl.com> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Thu Apr 27 00:12:11 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:06:34 -0400, T Sullivan wrote: > Mike Ingle wrote: > >> I wonder how close it is to the ITSY, Compaqs strongarm linux based pda? > > I understood ITSY was a carry over from when Compaq bought DEC and that it > was strictly a DEC research project ( i.e. never intended to be a commercial > product) that they also tried making available to the academic community via > a limited distribution. Jup, the Itsy was a research project in which DEC investigated mobile computing. I think the iPAQ is the result of the result. > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ITSY have accelerometers in it so > that as you leaned it forward, backward & sideways it acted like a mouse > control on the screen (interesting idea but IMHO a little edgy for a machine > intended for the retail market) and certainly no sign of any of that in the > iPAQ. In addition, wasn't ITSY also wafer thin - i.e. no expansion capability > or audio (any ITSY gurus who can set the story straight ?) Otherwise I was > under the impression that this iPAQ thingy was a completely new design... Yes, the later Itsy variants had the "rock&scroll" interface. Interesting idea indeed, but I wonder how useful it is when playing Doom ;-). I don't know how much your "wafer thin" is, but from pictures I get the impression that it is about 1cm thick (Johan?). As far as I can see the iPAQ is a SA1100/SA1110 design that puts all chips on a single PCB. Erik -- Computers run on faith, not electrons. -- T.N. Thompson -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 27 02:43:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA13289 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:43:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13285 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:43:32 +0200 Received: from localhost.localdomain (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTN0053NGOIF7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:43:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (IDENT:hbelange@webster [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10259 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:45:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:45:33 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: SA-1110/SA-1111 DEV KIT To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3906E4ED.F0AA00D2@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi All, I've been following the LART development with interest over the last couple of months and I must admit that I'm impressed with the work being done, BRAVO to the LART team... These guys have peaked my interest so much that I've been doing a lot of research in the embedded Linux world....WOW the possibilities are endless...! During my reading I came across the Intel site and read the features of the SA-1110/SA-1111 the list is impressive .! So is there plans to design LART around this chip set instead of the SA-1100 ? if not is there a group of people out there interested in joining force and doing so ? I'm not a Systems Engineer, cause I'd be all over this one...! but I'm a network engineer so I can offer some insight on what are some of the potential markets that we could target ... I also have some valuable contacts in the PCB manufacturer area.... Drop me a direct e-mail if you are interested in discussing this proposition further... Hugues Belanger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 27 03:23:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13437 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:23:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13433 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:23:37 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTN00617IJC3J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:23:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.79] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A6157190274; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:21:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:28:44 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: SA-1110/SA-1111 DEV KIT To: Hugues Belanger Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390797CC.69982463@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3906E4ED.F0AA00D2@cgocable.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Heh heh - this was actually a hot topic of recent discussion. However, a general consensus and the desires of the core team was - in short - one thing at a time. Currently, all the work is centered around the sa-1100. To start work on the sa-1110 would mean to create an entirely different layout, overcome the BGA package limitations (not exactly a hobbyist friendly package), a new BOM, more design and debugging, etc... something that will surely happen, but not right away. I figure by the time the core team has hashed out the sa-1100 for all it can do, we'll be looking at even the next generation of sa chips so we could leap-frog over the sa-1110 into the Next Generation Lart... Remember - the core team is doing what most companies shell out countless thousands of dollars to do - in their spare time. This is much like how Linux and accompanying applications are developed. In the end, we'll all have a better product (no hidden cut corners), and a lot of geek fun... Mike Hugues Belanger wrote: > > Hi All, > > I've been following the LART development with interest over the last > couple of months and I must admit that I'm impressed with the work being > done, BRAVO to the LART team... > > These guys have peaked my interest so much that I've been doing a lot of > research in the embedded Linux world....WOW the possibilities are > endless...! > During my reading I came across the Intel site and read the features of > the SA-1110/SA-1111 the list is impressive .! So is there plans to > design LART around this chip set instead of the SA-1100 ? if not is > there a group of people out there interested in joining force and doing > so ? > > I'm not a Systems Engineer, cause I'd be all over this one...! but I'm a > network engineer so I can offer some insight on what are some of the > potential markets that we could target ... I also have some valuable > contacts in the PCB manufacturer area.... > > Drop me a direct e-mail if you are interested in discussing this > proposition further... > > Hugues Belanger > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 27 03:37:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13500 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:37:08 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13494; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:37:05 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004261250.OAA14679@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:55:47 +0200 To: Erik Mouw From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Blob and writing to on-board flash Cc: tc@isodaq.co.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> Finally, and not wishing to be a pain, >> is the rev 4 LART PCB nearly done? > >JDB told me it's done, but... he is on holiday and will return next week. It is. I expect to have protos in the week of May 8. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Apr 27 11:04:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14447 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:04:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14443 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:04:58 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTO00KP83W9L5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:04:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.118) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 27 Apr 2000 01:56:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 01:56:45 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: Modem... In-reply-to: <002501bfae6b$410d7d40$0f52fea9@rentbert> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: Raphael Gray Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000427015242.00ba5ea0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk The LART has the analog stuff for a modem. Its the UCB1200. This part will also control a touch screen. (s) Derek At 05:03 AM 4/25/00 +0100, you wrote: >Has any one found a good(cheap in small quantities) modem chip/board for the >lart, because i would really like to have an on board one >because it would be easier(IMO) than puting PCMCIA capabilities and would >use less power(?) so i think this is the best way of getting a modem onto >the lart/KSB board. > >also the bus on the lart is 100Mb/s right? >so is there away to get it to go faster or would u need to change the chip? >i sayn this because >i plan to use it quite intensivly for graphics /=) and would like to get the >most out of the graphics adapter and leave >plenty of space on the bus for other things.... > >btw i dont know if you can get them, i have not found one anyway...but i >would like to have an onboard GPS reciever, preferably a chip/board add-on >but i dont mind if i have to buy a whole handset and take it apart...my lart >has to have GPS=) > >-Raphael -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 09:26:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18200 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:26:03 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18196 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:26:02 +0200 Received: from lund.commentor.se (lund.commentor.se [194.71.160.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTP009BHTZC3Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:26:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from gbg.commentor.se (gbg.commentor.se [194.71.186.133]) by lund.commentor.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25758 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:24:53 +0200 Received: from D307.commentor.se (d307.commentor.se [194.71.186.157]) by gbg.commentor.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26115 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:27:44 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:24:53 +0200 From: Fredrik Rothamel Subject: LART availability? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Fredrik Rothamel Message-id: <001601bfb0e2$d8b066c0$9dba47c2@commentor.se> Organization: Commentor System AB MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id JAA18197 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, could someone post a status report on the progress in making assembled LARTs available? Is there an European initiative? (assembled LART = complete LART + KSB + ETH, preferably with programmed ROM) /Fredrik -- Slowly and surely the unix crept up on the Nintendo user ... -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 09:51:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18293 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:51:28 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18289 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:51:27 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTP00AIOV5QNI@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:51:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.135) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:43:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:43:18 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: LART availability? In-reply-to: <001601bfb0e2$d8b066c0$9dba47c2@commentor.se> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000428004053.00a1a660@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk So, you want an aLART Alert? :> Sorry. I tried to resist. Really I did. Well, for a few minutes... :> (s) Derek At 09:24 AM 4/28/00 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >could someone post a status report on the progress in making assembled >LARTs available? >Is there an European initiative? > >(assembled LART = complete LART + KSB + ETH, preferably with programmed ROM) > >/Fredrik >-- >Slowly and surely the unix crept up on the Nintendo user ... > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 12:40:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18650 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:40:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18646 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:40:22 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ00MAI2YPJ0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:40:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09658 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:31:22 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01490 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:22:52 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:23:43 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: max clock rate for SA1100 To: lart Message-id: <390966AF.E4F5AB83@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I understand that SA1100 can clock at 220MHz and blob set it to the rate as default. But when Linux booted, its BogoMips reports around 206/7 MHz. Is the kernel reseting the clock or BogoMips is not the same as clock rate? I canot found where is the related code in kernel. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:21:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18734 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:21:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18730 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:21:53 +0200 Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ002024W9QY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:21:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk ([128.243.40.43] helo=unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk) by nottingham.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12l8id-0001oD-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:13:59 +0100 Received: from psystrj by unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.11 #2) id 12l8iG-0000Sg-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:13:36 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:13:36 +0100 From: Toby Jaffey Subject: Re: LART availability? In-reply-to: <001601bfb0e2$d8b066c0$9dba47c2@commentor.se>; from Fredrik Rothamel on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:24:53AM +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Toby Jaffey Mail-followup-to: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000428121335.A1174@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1us Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <001601bfb0e2$d8b066c0$9dba47c2@commentor.se> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:24:53AM +0200, Fredrik Rothamel wrote: > could someone post a status report on the progress in making assembled LARTs > available? Is there an European initiative? > > (assembled LART = complete LART + KSB + ETH, preferably with programmed ROM) Does anyone have a rough estimate of what it would cost for all of the parts to the main board? Would anyone be willing to build me one or sell one to me? -- (o_ | Toby Jaffey : www.nott.ac.uk/~psystrj/ //\ | Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time! V_/_ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:23:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18750 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:23:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18746 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:23:57 +0200 Received: from server.isodaq.sys (dialup83.ednet.co.uk [212.20.227.146]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ002444ZDQY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:23:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (tc@localhost) by server.isodaq.sys (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09586; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:20:10 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:20:10 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Campbell Subject: Re: Blob and writing to on-board flash In-reply-to: <200004261250.OAA14679@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: tc@server.isodaq.sys To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: server.isodaq.sys: tc owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > Most of our systems are battery powered, and do very little > > for most of the time except (for example) monitoring a serial port > > and briefly powering a few sensors every 15m. What, approximately, > > is the quiescent power consumption of a rev 3 LART board? Will > > the clock-scaling project reduce this by much, or is the DRAM > > refresh drain the main issue? > > IIRC, it can at least double the battery life. In combination with CPU > core voltage scaling the savings can be even more. Maybe Johan can > elaborate on it. (Johan?) Thanks for your quick repy - but what is IIRC? Tim Campbell Informetric Ltd (Isodaq Division) Unit 115 Stirling Enterprise Park Stirling FK7 7RP Scotland tel +44 1786 449 577 fax +44 1786 449 588 http://www.isodaq.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:34:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18789 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:34:49 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18785 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:34:48 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA11222; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:34:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004281134.NAA11222@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: tc@isodaq.co.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Blob and writing to on-board flash In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri Apr 28 13:34:44 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:20:10 +0100 (BST), Tim Campbell wrote: > Thanks for your quick repy - but what is IIRC? If I Remember Correctly Erik -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the croniclers mind. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:42:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18818 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:42:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18814 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:41:59 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ003Q55TF5Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:41:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.128) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:33:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:33:31 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: Blob and writing to on-board flash In-reply-to: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000428043214.00b9edd0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <200004261250.OAA14679@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk IIRC = if I recall correctly. At 12:20 PM 4/28/00 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > > Most of our systems are battery powered, and do very little > > > for most of the time except (for example) monitoring a serial port > > > and briefly powering a few sensors every 15m. What, approximately, > > > is the quiescent power consumption of a rev 3 LART board? Will > > > the clock-scaling project reduce this by much, or is the DRAM > > > refresh drain the main issue? > > > > IIRC, it can at least double the battery life. In combination with CPU > > core voltage scaling the savings can be even more. Maybe Johan can > > elaborate on it. (Johan?) > >Thanks for your quick repy - but what is IIRC? > > >Tim Campbell > >Informetric Ltd (Isodaq Division) >Unit 115 Stirling Enterprise Park >Stirling FK7 7RP >Scotland > >tel +44 1786 449 577 >fax +44 1786 449 588 >http://www.isodaq.co.uk > > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:43:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18835 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:43:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18831 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:43:47 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ003765VQVZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:43:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11865 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:49:08 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05538 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:40:40 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:41:30 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 To: lart Message-id: <390978EA.2E1F657D@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <390966AF.E4F5AB83@krdl.org.sg> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I found out why the clock rate is one rating behind the spec. It is because the spec is wrong, the clock rate of 221.2 MHz uses CCF<4:0> value of 01100, that is 0xC. (that value is stated "not supported" in the manual). Change the line in blob to assign 0xC to PPCR fix that, BogoMIPS returns 221.18. Anyway I try to change the value to 0xD (overclock StrongARM :), the kernel boots but failed at loading ramdisk. It is not for overclocking! Have fun! -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 13:57:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18880 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:57:14 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18876 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:57:13 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id NAA11364; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:57:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004281157.NAA11364@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-Reply-To: <390966AF.E4F5AB83@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri Apr 28 13:57:07 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:23:43 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: > I understand that SA1100 can clock at 220MHz and blob set it to the rate as > default. But when Linux booted, its BogoMips reports around 206/7 MHz. Is the > kernel reseting the clock or BogoMips is not the same as clock rate? I canot > found where is the related code in kernel. BogoMips == Bogus MIPS. They don't mean anything. Really. The BogoMips value is NOT the same as the clock speed! Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 14:07:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18911 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:51 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18907 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:50 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA11436; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004281207.OAA11436@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-Reply-To: <390978EA.2E1F657D@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri Apr 28 14:07:45 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:41:30 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: > I found out why the clock rate is one rating behind the spec. It is because > the spec is wrong, the clock rate of 221.2 MHz uses CCF<4:0> value of 01100, > that is 0xC. (that value is stated "not supported" in the manual). Change the > line in blob to assign 0xC to PPCR fix that, BogoMIPS returns 221.18. Anyway > I try to change the value to 0xD (overclock StrongARM :), the kernel boots but > failed at loading ramdisk. > > It is not for overclocking! Congratulations, you succesfully overclocked the CPU. We were able to run a 1.5V SA1100 specced at 190MHz at 220MHz, and even at 265 MHz. The reason your system crashed is that you didn't change the DRAM timings which are closely related to the core clock. I'm currently working on Johan's clock scaling for Linux (making the voltage scaling optional) which actually does take DRAM timings into account. Erik PS: UCB 1200 audio works, I can play MP3 files on the LART ;-). -- Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes" use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 14:43:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19004 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:43:34 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19000 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:43:33 +0200 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ007GT8NV0A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:43:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12lA4S-000CrC-0W for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:40:37 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:37:26 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: Re: LART availability? In-reply-to: <20000428121335.A1174@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3tZzkeAGYYC5EwIH@p2cl.demon.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> References: <001601bfb0e2$d8b066c0$9dba47c2@commentor.se> <20000428121335.A1174@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <20000428121335.A1174@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>, Toby Jaffey writes > >On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:24:53AM +0200, Fredrik Rothamel wrote: >> could someone post a status report on the progress in making assembled LARTs >> available? Is there an European initiative? >> >> (assembled LART = complete LART + KSB + ETH, preferably with programmed ROM) > >Does anyone have a rough estimate of what it would cost for all of the parts to >the main board? > >Would anyone be willing to build me one or sell one to me? I was going to try and act as a UK source. I'm not sure whether that will be possible because of increasing time pressures at the moment. Doug Moreen has contacted me (sorry Doug, not got back to you on your last e-mail yet) with a view to working with him and that's a definite possibility. All I can say at the moment is that I want to be involved in some kind of supply situation and will keep the list updated. I will try to get back to Doug this weekend and update the list early next week. Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 14:46:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19024 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:46:52 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19020 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:46:51 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ006JS8TEY3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:46:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12lA7g-000HEA-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:43:56 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:44:50 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <390987C2.3E1B5F06@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004281207.OAA11436@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > PS: UCB 1200 audio works, I can play MP3 files on the LART ;-). Yay! Out of interest, where did you get the UCB1200s from? (Or are you using 1300s instead?) Cheers, STeve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 14:49:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19040 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:49:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19036 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:49:24 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ007NO8Y420@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:49:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13281; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:49:43 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07715; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:41:14 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:42:03 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 To: Erik Mouw , lart Message-id: <3909871B.62487EAD@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004281157.NAA11364@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > > BogoMips == Bogus MIPS. They don't mean anything. Really. The BogoMips > value is NOT the same as the clock speed! > > Erik > But most of the machines that I used, their BogoMIPS are cosely related to their core clock speed. and the code in the kernel does say that it is used caculate loops_per_second? and udelay() is using this value. Anyway, is their anyway to know the cpu is running at which clock rate? The board I have does not have the GPIO26 pin connected out, cannot measure at that pin. :( -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 15:38:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19156 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:38:27 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19152 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:38:26 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id PAA12030; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:38:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004281338.PAA12030@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-Reply-To: <3909871B.62487EAD@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri Apr 28 15:38:21 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:42:03 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: > But most of the machines that I used, their BogoMIPS are cosely related to > their core clock speed. and the code in the kernel does say that it is used > caculate loops_per_second? and udelay() is using this value. Anyway, is their The BogoMips value differ wildly between machines. For example: on an i386 it is core speed divided by 5, on an i486 it is core speed divided by 2, on a Pentium it is core speed divided by 2.5, on a Pentium II it is the same as the core speed, and a Sun Sparc Classis does core speed divided by 1.2. So yes: the bogo mips value is related to, but certainly not the same as the core speed. The BogoMips value is dependent on three things: the core implementation, the core clock speed, and the compiler efficiency. This is all very well documented in the BogoMips mini-HOWTO, available at every sunsite/metalab mirror. > anyway to know the cpu is running at which clock rate? The board I have does > not have the GPIO26 pin connected out, cannot measure at that pin. :( Directly measure on the GPIO pin itself using a probe with a fine tip. Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 15:43:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19180 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:43:42 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19176 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:43:41 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id PAA12066; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:43:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004281343.PAA12066@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: steve@steves-house.org.uk Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-Reply-To: <390987C2.3E1B5F06@steves-house.org.uk> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri Apr 28 15:43:38 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:44:50 +0100, Steve Wiseman wrote: > Erik Mouw wrote: >> PS: UCB 1200 audio works, I can play MP3 files on the LART ;-). > > Yay! > Out of interest, where did you get the UCB1200s from? (Or are you > using 1300s instead?) I don't know. I remember JDB had problems getting them, but somehow he managed to find a small quantity. I think JDB can tell when he's back from holiday. I use a real UCB1200. Erik -- unix soit qui mal y pense -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Apr 28 15:49:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19199 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:49:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19195 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:49:20 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTQ00BIXBQ5CS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:49:18 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:43:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-reply-to: <390966AF.E4F5AB83@krdl.org.sg> To: zhu qun ying Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > I understand that SA1100 can clock at 220MHz and blob set it to the rate as > default. But when Linux booted, its BogoMips reports around 206/7 MHz. Is the > kernel reseting the clock or BogoMips is not the same as clock rate? I canot > found where is the related code in kernel. Never assume Bogomips and clock speed are related. In practice on a StrongARM, bogomips are approx clock_speed - 10 but remember that bogomips are bogus. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 05:21:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20961 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:21:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20957 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:21:13 +0200 Received: from sttlpop5.sttl.uswest.net (sttlpop5.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.5]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTR00BFVDBC06@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:21:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 3796 invoked by alias); Sat, 29 Apr 2000 03:18:48 +0000 Received: (qmail 3778 invoked by uid 0); Sat, 29 Apr 2000 03:18:47 +0000 Received: from ddslppp153.sttl.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.160.99.153) by pop.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 03:18:47 +0000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:18:05 -0700 From: Sam Stinson Subject: Battery-backed RAM drive? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390A546D.F2BBABFF@uswest.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Delivered-to: fixup-lart@lart.tudelft.nl@fixme X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk How difficult would it be to design a battery backed hard-drive-alike using some sort of RAM? RAM being cheaper than flash memory, and all. I'm looking at using the LART as a portable MP3 player, and of course want the cheapest solution in the smallest package. Of course, I don't know much about the power requirements for memory refresh, etc. so this might just be a battery eater. But hey, I've got lots of old 72 pin EDO lying around (and I bet some of you do, too) so maybe it's worth a shot? Thoughts? Sam Stinson Seattle, WA sstinson@uswest.net -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 06:11:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21023 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:11:24 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21019 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:11:23 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTR00C4CFMV6Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:11:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:08:36 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:08:36 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: sa-1111 In-reply-to: <39011396.5B35E810@mjv.com> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Michael Vanecek Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Can people please remove me from the CC lists when posting to lart. I'm on the mailling list and its stuffing up my filtering. Cheers Adam On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > What's the story on the sa-1111 helper chip? It almost looks like a ksb > on one chip... > > Mike > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 06:17:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21043 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:17:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21039 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:17:10 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTR00C2FFWKBL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:17:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.83]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10692; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:42:48 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:46:35 +0530 From: Mukund Subject: Re: Battery-backed RAM drive? To: Sam Stinson , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000901bfb191$b5e4aca0$531e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >How difficult would it be to design a battery backed hard-drive-alike >using some sort of RAM? yes, i would like to know this too... the hard disk eats a lot of battery anyway i guess. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 06:39:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21082 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:39:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21078 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:39:18 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTR00C93GXF8S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:39:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:39:08 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:39:07 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: SA11x0 Multiprocessor In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000422001345.00a216c0@mail.clubnet.net> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Derek Lassen Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Derek Lassen wrote: > This is very non LART. > > By using a signal named MBREQ one could build a multiprocessor systems, > but as I understand it, there are two major issues: > > First is memory refresh. If DRAM is in-system, you must insure that the > processor doing the refresh never looses the bus for so long as to miss out > on a refresh cycle. Maybe you could rotate refresh duty among many processors. > > The second problem is cache coherency. There is none. So, any memory change > that happens behind the cache will be invisible to other processors. That > means that any data structure which is visible to more than one task must > be protected by a semaphore which is in a non cached area of memory. > > This is one of the tradeoffs of CISC vs RISC. This has nothing to do with CISC vs RISC. It has to do with the simplicity that this particular cache design has. Nothing stoping anyone from designing an ARM with SMPable caches but its not what ARM core designers are aimming for. All ARM caches to date have been fully virtual. The ARM9 cores provide means to physically tag caches which makes them a little nicer for multiple address space OS's but thats another story all together. Cheers Adam P.S. For an example of mass cache coherency for SMP have a look at the Alpha range of processors. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 10:11:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21285 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:11:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21281 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:11:01 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTR00EESQQCGO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:11:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB5E748D8; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:11:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:11:21 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-reply-to: <200004281157.NAA11364@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: kira@carrot.linuxgrrls.org To: Erik Mouw Cc: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > BogoMips == Bogus MIPS. They don't mean anything. Really. The BogoMips > value is NOT the same as the clock speed! On StrongARM, it's pretty damn close... we used to get 222 BogoMIPS out of a 233 MHz StrongARM. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 10:13:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21298 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:13:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21294 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:13:53 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTR00EEGQV4I1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:13:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318EA748D8; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:13:38 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:13:38 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 In-reply-to: <3909871B.62487EAD@krdl.org.sg> X-Sender: kira@carrot.linuxgrrls.org To: zhu qun ying Cc: Erik Mouw , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > But most of the machines that I used, their BogoMIPS are cosely related to > their core clock speed. It's not fixed, and is different for every processor. My SC410s score roughly half their clock rate in BogoMIPS, StrongARMs score about equal (though usually slightly less, for some reason) and the K6-2 I'm sat typing this on scores about double. It's a Bogus Meaningless Indicator of Processor Specification... kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Apr 29 21:25:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22277 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:25:43 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22273 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:25:42 +0200 Received: from kalman by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA17017; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:25:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200004291925.VAA17017@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: SA11x0 Multiprocessor In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Sat Apr 29 19:25:31 +0000 (GMT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (Linux) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:39:07 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > P.S. For an example of mass cache coherency for SMP have a look at the > Alpha range of processors. JDB and I had a quick look at the latest Alpha CPUs: very nice, extremely fast, 8GB/s data throughput (IIRC), but... it wants 60W of power for its 2V core (yes, that's a 30A current). Not a real problem if it needs a continuous current, but the current fluctuates with the processor utilization. We really don't want to design a power supply for that beast. ;-) Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 30 04:19:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA23172 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:19:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA23168 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:19:45 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTT006JE54U98@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:19:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21582; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:17:05 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14561; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:08:34 +0800 (SGT) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:09:24 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 To: Erik Mouw , lart Message-id: <390B95D4.5F830C44@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200004281207.OAA11436@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I am sorry for ignoring the BogoMIPS howto, ;P. Anyway, for my case, If I can overclock my board without recalculating my DRAM setting, does that mean my orginal DRAM setting is too safe (I'm using the MICRON MT4LC4M16R6 DRAM, 50 ns)? What kind of effect on performance? What kind of information to look for from the DRAM specs? The terms used are a little different from StrongARM's manual. like the longest burst access time, I did not see any simlimar terms from the DRAM spec. Currently I am using the following value for my DRAM. mov r1, #0xA0000000 mov r2, #0xC7000000 add r2, r2, #0x001C0000 add r2, r2, #0x00007000 add r2, r2, #0x0000003F str r2, [r1, #0x04] mov r2, #0xFF000000 add r2, r2, #0x00C70000 add r2, r2, #0x00001C00 add r2, r2, #0x00000071 str r2, [r1, #0x08] mov r2, #0xFF000000 add r2, r2, #0x00FF0000 add r2, r2, #0x0000FF00 add r2, r2, #0x000000FF str r2, [r1, #0x0C] mov r2, #0x01000000 add r2, r2, #0x00840000 add r2, r2, #0x00006600 add r2, r2, #0x000000F3 str r2, [r1, #0x00] Erik Mouw wrote: > Congratulations, you succesfully overclocked the CPU. We were able to run > a 1.5V SA1100 specced at 190MHz at 220MHz, and even at 265 MHz. The reason > your system crashed is that you didn't change the DRAM timings which are > closely related to the core clock. > > I'm currently working on Johan's clock scaling for Linux (making the > voltage scaling optional) which actually does take DRAM timings into > account. > > Erik > > PS: UCB 1200 audio works, I can play MP3 files on the LART ;-). -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 30 06:58:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23299 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:58:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23295 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:58:25 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTT0075XCH9ZJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:58:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id VAA3735734; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:55:48 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Free Samples Parts for LART Construction To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <390BBCD4.18ABD215@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6A0FCCB129CCF288B7F5211E" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6A0FCCB129CCF288B7F5211E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I've just finished the latest update to the LART (Rev 3) PC Board small quantity order site and added a couple of items of possible interest: 1.) A Complete Priced Bill Of Materials (BOM) with Part Numbers, Footprints / Package details and prototype qty unit cost estimates ( http://pweb.netcom.com/~sv_calif/BOM.htm ) 2.) A page containing Links to LART related Part Manufactures, Electronic Component Distributors and Sources for FREE engineering samples required for LART mainboard construction: ( http://pweb.netcom.com/~sv_calif/Components.htm ) Feedback, corrections and suggested additions are welcome Cheers, Greg Fountain Menlo Park, CA --------------6A0FCCB129CCF288B7F5211E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------6A0FCCB129CCF288B7F5211E-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 30 11:09:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23564 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:09:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23560 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:09:15 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTT00A5TO3EB6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:09:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 2354 invoked from network); Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:07:14 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([212.123.14.101]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:07:14 +0000 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:03:39 +0200 From: PELGRIMS P Subject: Is it possible to run PERL MRTG on LART ? To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be Message-id: <390BF6EA.95AA94C2@pandora.be> Organization: A MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, Would it be possibel to run MRTG and Perl on LART. In that way can store and handle local data (graphical) and use it with HTTPD. Hoping to receive some reactions, I meanwhile remain, P. Pelgrims -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 30 12:58:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23674 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:58:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23670 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:58:30 +0200 Received: from listserv.tudelft.nl (listserv.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTT00BGFT5IW5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:58:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from its.tudelft.nl (IDENT:pouwelse@mp3.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.98.56]) by listserv.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22485; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:58:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:58:59 +0200 From: Johan Pouwelse Subject: Re: Is it possible to run PERL MRTG on LART ? To: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be Cc: Lart Mail Server Message-id: <390C11F3.98C92054@its.tudelft.nl> Organization: Technical University Delft MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <390BF6EA.95AA94C2@pandora.be> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk PELGRIMS P wrote: > Would it be possibel to run MRTG and Perl on LART. You mean running the programs of http://ee-staff.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/mrtg/mrtg.html to make graphs of the Ethernet traffic on the LART ethernet interface... Yep, that would be a very nice application of the LART. If you want to investigate network problems in general the LART would be an ideal instrument. Johan. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Apr 30 19:38:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24209 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:38:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24204 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:38:53 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTU00IE0BORXR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:38:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id KAA3807042; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:36:16 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: Free Samples Parts for LART Construction To: David Poisson Cc: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <390C6F10.3095BDA3@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7F1C1830C3BE6DC9BDF3C96A" X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7F1C1830C3BE6DC9BDF3C96A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, Manufactures hand out free samples on a routine basis (especially for low cost parts) as a means to get their components into new designs. In marketing lingo a "Design Win". For the most part (using MAXIM as an example) it's done by simply filling out a form on their website (hundred of sample requests are processed every day). Here in Silicon Valley I have never had a vendor require to make any kind of promise that I will buy them in large volume. After all from the marketing department's perspective, half the battle is getting you to ring their phones and not their competitors (especially for engineers working on new design prototypes) and in the process getting you on their potential customer list. Greg David Poisson wrote: > I'm terribly sorry, but I am very new at this, and I was wondering what > "free sample" means exactly ? Is it something like if you promise to buy a > large quantity if the chip meets your demands, then they let you get a > sample of a certain chip (or component) for free to try it out ? > > Thanks > > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org --------------7F1C1830C3BE6DC9BDF3C96A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------7F1C1830C3BE6DC9BDF3C96A-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 01:56:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24922 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:56:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24918 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:56:05 +0200 Received: from localhost.localdomain (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTU002BWT5FYP@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:56:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cgocable.net (IDENT:hbelange@webster [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09827 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:58:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:58:00 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Gerber RS-247D/X viewer in Java Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <390C1FC8.5C8D9681@cgocable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CA1919CD5DD3AEE57DF50932" X-Accept-Language: en References: <3946359D.9444E37D@linux.de> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk --------------CA1919CD5DD3AEE57DF50932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gents, I've sent this e-mail to J.D but I haven't had a reply yet so I'm asking anyone, willing to help ..! I'm getting a quote from a local manufacturing shop and they have concern with the gerber's here's what they had to say "We have viewed the Gerber files for the Pcb layout, but I'm not convinced that all layers are correct. I would like to fax you copies of the layers for you to look at and confirm if all layers arecorrect or not. Layer 3 is particularly of concern to me. Two layer 3 files are provided (13pos.gbr and 13neg.gbr). 13neg.gbr is simply a complete unbroken copper sheet and would shortcircuit the entire Pcb if used as such. I therefore assume that because it is called 13neg.gbr it should be reversed so that no copper exists. Please look at layer three and confirm if it is correct." Can someone tell me if this is a mistake and if it is can someon send me the correct gerbers... thanks Hugues Belanger --------------CA1919CD5DD3AEE57DF50932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gents,
I've sent this e-mail to J.D but I haven't had a reply yet so I'm asking anyone, willing to help ..!

I'm getting a quote from a local manufacturing shop and they have concern with the gerber's here's what they had to say

"We have viewed the Gerber files for the Pcb layout, but I'm not convinced that all layers are correct. I would like to fax you copies
of the layers for you to look at and confirm if all layers arecorrect or not.
 
Layer 3 is particularly of concern to me. Two layer 3 files are provided (13pos.gbr  and  13neg.gbr).
13neg.gbr is simply a complete unbroken copper sheet and would shortcircuit the entire Pcb if used as such. I therefore assume that
because it is called 13neg.gbr it should be reversed so that no copper exists. Please look at layer three and confirm if it is correct."

Can  someone tell me if this is a mistake and if it is can someon send me the correct gerbers... thanks
 

Hugues Belanger
  --------------CA1919CD5DD3AEE57DF50932-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 02:06:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25008 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 02:06:57 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25004; Mon, 1 May 2000 02:06:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <390987C2.3E1B5F06@steves-house.org.uk> References: <200004281207.OAA11436@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 02:05:40 +0200 To: Steve Wiseman From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: max clock rate for SA1100 Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 14:44 +0200 28-04-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote: >Erik Mouw wrote: > >> PS: UCB 1200 audio works, I can play MP3 files on the LART ;-). > >Yay! > Out of interest, where did you get the UCB1200s from? (Or are you >using 1300s instead?) http://www.avnetmarshall.com/ JDB. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 02:19:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25042 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 02:19:46 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25037; Mon, 1 May 2000 02:19:42 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <390C1FC8.5C8D9681@cgocable.net> References: <3946359D.9444E37D@linux.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 02:18:16 +0200 To: Hugues Belanger From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Gerber RS-247D/X viewer in Java Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [Sorry if I appear grumpy, but I've been on a short supply of sleep lately. Also someone appears to be in write-only mode] At 13:58 +0200 30-04-2000, Hugues Belanger wrote: > Hi Gents, >I've sent this e-mail to J.D but I haven't had a reply yet so I'm asking >anyone, willing to help ..! May have something to do with me being on vacation and you apparently not willing to wait more than 48 hours for a reply. >I'm getting a quote from a local manufacturing shop and they have concern >with the gerber's here's what they had to say > >"We have viewed the Gerber files for the Pcb layout, but I'm not convinced >that all layers are correct. I would like to fax you copies >of the layers for you to look at and confirm if all layers arecorrect or not. > >Layer 3 is particularly of concern to me. Two layer 3 files are provided >(13pos.gbr and 13neg.gbr). >13neg.gbr is simply a complete unbroken copper sheet and would >shortcircuit the entire Pcb if used as such. I therefore assume that >because it is called 13neg.gbr it should be reversed so that no copper >exists. Please look at layer three and confirm if it is correct." Read the mailing list archive; Greg Fountain and I discussed this earlier. Oh and it might be helpful to read the file called 'README' from the hardware distro before posting to the list. >Can someone tell me if this is a mistake and if it is can someon send me >the correct gerbers... thanks Both Greg and I have had PCBs manufactured from these Gerbers. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 11:39:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25760 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 11:39:19 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25756 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 11:39:19 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA22699; Mon, 1 May 2000 11:39:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005010939.LAA22699@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2-em1.gz Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Mon May 01 11:39:17 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just put my patch against Nicolas Pitre's patch on the LART website. What's new: - SA1100 optimizations in the main Makefile. - LART LED support. - UCB 1200 driver ported from linux-2.2.12. I only tested it on LART, but it should also work on Brutus and Tifon. I made some minor cleanups (removed quite some dead code), but IMHO it needs a real big cleanup. - Some minor cleanups in the header files. Get it from http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/ . Erik -- A towel has immense psychological value. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 15:50:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26267 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26263 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:03 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTV00C78VMB5B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:41:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2-em1.gz In-reply-to: <200005010939.LAA22699@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > Hi all, > > I just put my patch against Nicolas Pitre's patch on the LART website. I'm coming with a patch against 2.3.99-pre6-rmk1 shortly. There is still some issues to resolve though, but I hope to fix that by tomorrow. It will include the above mentionned patch. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 16:19:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26333 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 16:19:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26329 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 16:19:31 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTV00E0BX47GZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 16:19:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from muks ([202.54.30.118]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA08972 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 19:45:02 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:48:42 +0530 From: Mukund Subject: request for test... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <007101bfb378$27c60700$5c1e36ca@muks> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk folks.. a request... if any of you are lart owners, would you be interested in testing a quake port on your lart? right now, it has no graphics and no sound :-) but it does the rendering to a buffer and does the game simulation properly. i have tested it on my x86 and have an ARM binary ready.. since that PAK file is huge (PIG, HOG, FAT) i wonder if i might be able to work up a modified PAK so that it can be written into the flash.. any takers? hey, atleast say no :) - muks ps: yes the source is there too.. don't worry :) only thing is that i want to tidy it and add the fbdev code before i release it. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 19:14:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26874 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:14:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26870 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:14:37 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00MC658CHB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:14:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA15492 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 13:12:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA13402 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 13:15:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:15:49 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I posted this message two weeks ago, but it appears it never made it to the list cause I never recieved a copy. I was reflecting on what I wanted to do exactly with a LART (After all, I have to find an excuse to buy one hehe) and the following is pretty much what I had in mind. I want to do a small portable computer that runs linux. Don't mind if it's not the best processor, as long as it doesn't consume too much power. Would be nice to have some audio for those long boring classes, ethernet to connect to wherever I go (school network or home network) and an LCD screen (color capable) to see wtf I'm doing ;-) I would probably have to do my own case, create a keyboard (no need for a mouse) and put a thing to connect to 120W wall plug (not to mention what everyone was talking about a couple of days ago as to which battery should be used). I also wanted to ask something: can the IDE controller on the KSB board support more than 1 device ? (IDE floppy + IDE hard disk for example) Question is: could this be done with lart ? Been monitoring the mailing-list for about a week now and it seems that a LART would be perfect for what I wanna do. Keep in mind that I also wanna learn how all that electrical stuff works, so I don't mind doing some of the stuff myself (so don't say I should get a laptop instead hehe) Thanks a lot for any input. David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 19:54:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26991 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:54:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26987 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:54:16 +0200 From: anders.wallin@helsinki.fi Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW000F772FYE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 19:54:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rock.helsinki.fi (rock.helsinki.fi [128.214.3.50]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id e41Hpin20452 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 20:51:44 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 20:51:44 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: X-Sender: awallin@rock.helsinki.fi To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Wallin Anders Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Question is: could this be done with lart ? Been monitoring the > mailing-list for about a week now and it seems that a LART would be > perfect for what I wanna do. Keep in mind that I also wanna learn how all > that electrical stuff works, so I don't mind doing some of the stuff > myself (so don't say I should get a laptop instead hehe) If you think about it, you would need: Lart KSB Ethernet Keyboard Screen Battery Power Supply I don't know what laptop would be equal to a lart in performance, but the price for the above will surely be similar to a low end laptop. I'm sure it would be possible to build a portable linux pc around the lart, but personally I think I'll go for a Psion... OTOH building a completely "Open Hardware " desktop pc running linux would maybe be nice in the future... A Wallin -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 20:06:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27047 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:06:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27043 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:06:21 +0200 Received: from reflect.newenterprises.com (newenterprises.com [207.155.90.15]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW001747MJDS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:06:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gduncan@localhost) by reflect.newenterprises.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e41HOxp32435 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 10:24:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Duncan Subject: Other embeded Linux To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Wow!, now this is small! http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4033319254.html -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 20:37:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27098 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:37:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27094 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:37:35 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW0025P92MG7@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:37:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA15671; Mon, 01 May 2000 14:35:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA13534; Mon, 01 May 2000 14:38:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:38:52 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: anders.wallin@helsinki.fi Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Well, thanks for your input. But like I said, it's more of a project to learn how these things work. I don't really mind if it's not cost efficient. At worst, you cut down a little on certain things (like a very basic LCD screen which doesn't do colors). David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Mon, 1 May 2000 anders.wallin@helsinki.fi wrote: > > Question is: could this be done with lart ? Been monitoring the > > mailing-list for about a week now and it seems that a LART would be > > perfect for what I wanna do. Keep in mind that I also wanna learn how all > > that electrical stuff works, so I don't mind doing some of the stuff > > myself (so don't say I should get a laptop instead hehe) > > If you think about it, you would need: > > Lart > KSB > Ethernet > Keyboard > Screen > Battery > Power Supply > > I don't know what laptop would be equal to a lart in performance, but the > price for the above will surely be similar to a low end laptop. > > I'm sure it would be possible to build a portable linux pc around the > lart, but personally I think I'll go for a Psion... > > OTOH building a completely "Open Hardware " desktop pc running linux would > maybe be nice in the future... > > A Wallin > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 21:34:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27228 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 21:34:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27224 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 21:33:59 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTW003PNBOMN6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 21:33:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA00946; Mon, 01 May 2000 15:23:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:22:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200005011923.PAA00946"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: aXQrVRxX4pcvZiE8SvXKTg== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >I don't know what laptop would be equal to a lart in performance, but the >price for the above will surely be similar to a low end laptop. > Not that a processor's Dhrystone is a particularly accurate comparison, but a Pentium 133 is rated at 200 MIPS. The 190MHz portable SA-1100 is rated at 220 MIPS. So, by using this comparison, you'd be building a (roughly) Pentum 150 class machine. Assuming you didn't overclock the system. :) And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in development are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. Numbers quoted were obtained from: Intel SA-1100 Linecard (http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/linecard/sa-1100/) The ARM Website (www.arm.com) and various Processor Whitepapers from Intel's website Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 23:28:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27431 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:28:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27427 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:28:38 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW0080QGZOZE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:28:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA16048 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 17:26:00 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13716 for ; Mon, 01 May 2000 17:29:35 -0400 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:29:35 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: LART power situation X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a wall jack) David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 1 23:51:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27495 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:51:42 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27491 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:51:41 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW008BCI23ZE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 1 May 2000 23:51:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.124) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 01 May 2000 14:43:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:43:33 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: GPS SA Gone X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: Eric Fort Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000501144201.00c43450@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk For those who want their LART to know exactly where it is via GPS, the US has turned off Selective Availability. See http://www.igeb.gov/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 00:02:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27544 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:20 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27540 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:19 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00524; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:15 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200005012202.AAA00524@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: LART power situation To: david@fish.ecks.org (David Poisson) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:15 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) In-Reply-To: from "David Poisson" at May 01, 2000 09:29:35 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something > other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a > wall jack) Well, plugging it directly in a 120/230V wall jack won't make it run harder... (I've seen someone do this with a transistor radio -- it didn't work, and this guy was wondering why the wires got so short :) If you look at the mainboard page http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/ you'll see that it accepts a relatively wide range of voltages. You should be able to find a combination of batteries / mains adapter that works. The other boards are all powered off the mainboard supply. Most displays have a (separate) step-up converter for their high voltage that works off the same low voltage supply. So, unless you want to do something really special, one supply between 3.5 and 16 V should be sufficient. -- Marc e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? __ __^__ __________ | \ +---/ \---+ (==========) |____\___________ +---\_____/---+ // >____)| | \__ \ \______//___ >/ |________| \ [ _____\ |____________________\ \_______/ Roger, go at throttle up CHR$(32), the final frontier ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 00:46:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27658 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:46:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27654 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:46:07 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00AIXKKUKB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 00:46:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.124) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 01 May 2000 15:38:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:37:59 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: LART power situation In-reply-to: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000501151232.00bb1aa0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There are a few parts needed. Marlin P Jones, and assoc. In Florida sell some nice laptop supplies, with built in Batt charger and regulators (for $14.95). See http://www.mpja.com/product.asp?product=4786+PS. Halted Specilities in Santa Clara sell a 12 Volt 5 Amp/Hour (60 Watt/Hour) D Cell pack of NiCDs (#17181) (for $17.50 ) that would work with this power supply. See page 12 of ftp://ftp.halted.com/catpdf/cats1-s12.pdf. Both companies sell suitable AC tto DC wall warts (you want 16 to 18 Volts @ 2.5 Amps). Hope this helps... (s) Derek At 09:29 PM 5/1/00 +0000, you wrote: >I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something >other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a >wall jack) > >David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 02:01:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27976 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:01:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27972 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:01:42 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00CKGO2S2Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:01:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id QAA3625209; Mon, 01 May 2000 16:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:58:59 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: Re: LART power situation To: David Poisson , Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <390E1A43.CCF25DF5@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9C12C20CBD4CC3822E6B8E7D" X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9C12C20CBD4CC3822E6B8E7D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again, This brings up a little idea I've been thinking about to eliminate the normal wire and cable clutter associated with prototype hardware. I was contemplating laying out a simple (5" x 8" or so) double sided PC board that mates with the LART mainboard. This "Eval" board might include: 1.) Standard DB-9 connector for connecting the serial port to your PC 2.) Reset pushbutton 3.) 0.1" grid breadboard area 4.) Mating 2mm J2, J3, J4 through hole connectors (Fanned out to a std. 0.1" pin spacing) 5.) AC to DC power supply (UL approved wall former or DC-DC converter) & PCB jack 6.) Spring steel battery clips (so you could try the battery powered option) Any preferred battery size? Maybe four 1.5 volt cells? 7.) Kit in a box. ( all parts and connectors ) 8.) Other Ideas anyone??? This would be a (KISS) though hole design to eliminate the current problems a lot of people are having with SMT assembly. An easy solder by hand type of project. The goal would be to provide a clean low cost mainboard evaluation PCB that users could get started with to test code and make a few power measurement on. I know this is no KSB ... but it's simple, cheap, and easy to put together Anyone Interested? Have any additional comments? Greg David Poisson wrote: > I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something > other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a > wall jack) > > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org --------------9C12C20CBD4CC3822E6B8E7D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------9C12C20CBD4CC3822E6B8E7D-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 02:12:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28005 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:12:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28001 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:12:54 +0200 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.176]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00D0EOLHE8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:12:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modem-240.alabama.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.52.240] helo=epic.world) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12mQHV-00012L-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 02 May 2000 01:11:17 +0100 Received: from trj by epic.world with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 12mQBL-00054G-00; Tue, 02 May 2000 01:04:55 +0100 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 01:04:55 +0100 From: Toby Jaffey Subject: Re: LART power situation In-reply-to: <200005012202.AAA00524@historia.et.tudelft.nl>; from marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl on Tue, May 02, 2000 at 12:02:15AM +0200 To: lart Reply-to: toby@earth.li Mail-followup-to: lart Message-id: <20000502010454.A19471@epic.world> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005012202.AAA00524@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 12:02:15AM +0200, Marc Joosen wrote: > > I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something > > other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a > > wall jack) [snip] > So, unless you want to do something really special, one supply between > 3.5 and 16 V should be sufficient. Could you power it from a serial port? That would be cool. -- (o_ | Toby Jaffey : www.nott.ac.uk/~psystrj/ //\ | "... it is important to realize that any lock can be picked with a V_/_ | big enough hammer." -- Sun System & Network Admin manual -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 04:46:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28378 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 04:46:18 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28374 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 04:46:18 +0200 Received: from socket.house ([208.243.144.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00FB2VP4ER@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 04:46:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by newsnipple.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 01 May 2000 20:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 20:00:09 -0700 From: Adam Haberlach Subject: Re: LART power situation In-reply-to: <20000502010454.A19471@epic.world>; from Toby Jaffey on Tue, May 02, 2000 at 01:04:55AM +0100 To: lart Message-id: <20000501200009.A16933@ricochet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005012202.AAA00524@historia.et.tudelft.nl> <20000502010454.A19471@epic.world> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 01:04:55AM +0100, Toby Jaffey wrote: > On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 12:02:15AM +0200, Marc Joosen wrote: > > > > I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use something > > > other than batteries if it's available (like plug your LART directly in a > > > wall jack) > > [snip] > > > So, unless you want to do something really special, one supply between > > 3.5 and 16 V should be sufficient. > > Could you power it from a serial port? > That would be cool. You usually can't draw enough power from a serial port. -- Adam Haberlach |"You have to understand that the adam@newsnipple.com | entire 'Net is based on people with http://www.newsnipple.com/ | too much free time on their hands." -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 05:39:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28500 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:39:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28496 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:39:34 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00G4BY5W7I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:39:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.83] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id AD3F87EC023E; Mon, 01 May 2000 22:36:31 -0500 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:38:14 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: GPS SA Gone Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390E4DA6.2BE5496@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <4.2.0.58.20000501144201.00c43450@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Too cool - now accuracy will be much greater! Want to know your exact position and elevation at a given moment to within a few meters? No problem - just consult your handy GPSLart... :) I'd always thought SA was a pile of dung - imagine introducing a new technology and then crippling it for "national security". Sheesh, keep the gov boys away from the cluster-Larts and the Crypto-Larts then... What, we can do 512 bit encryption but the gov limits us to 24 bit encryption. Oh, and our Larts are clustered, but you can only use one at a time... :) Mike Derek Lassen wrote: > > For those who want their LART to know exactly where it is via GPS, the US > has turned off Selective Availability. > > See http://www.igeb.gov/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 05:45:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28533 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:45:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28529 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:45:19 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTW00G6OYFH7I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:45:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id WAA25250; Mon, 01 May 2000 22:42:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:42:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: LART power situation In-reply-to: <20000501200009.A16933@ricochet.net> To: Adam Haberlach Cc: lart Message-id: <200005020342.WAA25250@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Adam Haberlach wrote > On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 01:04:55AM +0100, Toby Jaffey wrote: > > Could you power it from a serial port? > > That would be cool. > > You usually can't draw enough power from a serial port. You can draw 500mA from a USB port. I think that VOM in the gallery is show ~240mA. You have to configure as a USB client and request the current, you have to stay under 100mA until you are cleared for the current you request by the hub or host. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 06:42:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA28583 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 06:42:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA28579 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 06:42:49 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTX00H0T13B4J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 06:42:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA17635 for ; Tue, 02 May 2000 00:41:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA15032 for ; Tue, 02 May 2000 00:45:31 -0400 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 04:45:30 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: LART Bus ? X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Everyone is talking about a lot of products that would be nice to have in a LART (mp3, ethernet, KSB, GPS,...). I was thinking, shouldn't someone do a bus for LART ? Even if it's an ISA bus, it would leave some room if someone want's to do their own GPS card, sound card or whatever. Not everyone needs everything. And for those that want everything, you could always put a couple of cards in your LART. Any feedback ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 07:29:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA28664 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:29:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28660 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:29:29 +0200 Received: from sand6.global.net.uk (sand6.global.net.uk [195.147.246.105]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTX00HB13941I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:29:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p7bs06a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.230.124] helo=rentbert) by sand6.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12mVGT-0002jv-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 02 May 2000 06:30:33 +0100 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 08:28:34 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: GPS Simm.... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <003d01bfb408$06d7b080$3d7afea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk You can get from MAPLIN - www.maplin.co.uk PART CODE: VY57M GPS SIMM Module £99.99 Features · No External Components · Low Noise Figure (4dB) · Shielded for RFI · Direct Interface Two serial ports are provided on the SIMM module for communication. One (Port 0) is used to output position, velocity and receiver status information. This serial port also accepts messages on its input to allow initialization of the ST20-GP1. A second serial port (Port 1) is provided which is usd to show debugging information. This port does not accept any input messages. Information messages are passed to and from the SGM5600S in NMEA 0183 format. A full definition of this format can be found in the National Marine Electronics Association NMEA 0183 Standard for Interfacing Marine Electronic Devices, version 2.00. i'm still looking for a cheaper option, but it is a start, i am not shaw how many pins it has so it might be difficult to get a slot for it(better than soldering onto the pincs=). Also after seeing the specs for the Yopy posted on Slashdot, i think i need a tv tuner chip now *GRIN* Regards. -Raphael -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 07:58:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA28752 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:58:10 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28748 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:58:09 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTX00HK94KT15@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 07:58:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From rothaus With LocalMail ; Tue, 02 May 2000 10:51:42 +1000 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:51:41 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: request for test... In-reply-to: <007101bfb378$27c60700$5c1e36ca@muks> X-Sender: awiggins@rothaus.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Mukund Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'll try it on an assabet or a brutus Cheers Adam On Mon, 1 May 2000, Mukund wrote: > folks.. a request... > > if any of you are lart owners, would you be interested > in testing a quake port on your lart? > > right now, it has no graphics and no sound :-) > but it does the rendering to a buffer and does the > game simulation properly. > > i have tested it on my x86 and have an ARM binary > ready.. since that PAK file is huge (PIG, HOG, FAT) > i wonder if i might be able to work up a > modified PAK so that it can be written into the flash.. > > any takers? hey, atleast say no :) > > - muks > > ps: > yes the source is there too.. don't worry :) > only thing is that i want to tidy it and add the > fbdev code before i release it. > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 09:52:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29008 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:52:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29004 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:52:29 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTX00MPE9VC1N@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:52:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:18 +1000 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:14 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: <"200005011923.PAA00946"@rjlsystems.com> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Barry Callahan Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 May 2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > > >I don't know what laptop would be equal to a lart in performance, but the > >price for the above will surely be similar to a low end laptop. > > > Not that a processor's Dhrystone is a particularly accurate comparison, but a > Pentium 133 is rated at 200 MIPS. > The 190MHz portable SA-1100 is rated at 220 MIPS. > > So, by using this comparison, you'd be building a (roughly) Pentum 150 class > machine. Assuming you didn't overclock the system. :) > > And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in development > are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. Don't forget CISC MIPS are more significant then RISC MIPS that is a RISC vs CISC issue. Mind you I'm not sure how dhrystones are qualified. Also there is the issue that SA's have very pore address space context switch times. Cheers ADam > > Numbers quoted were obtained from: > Intel SA-1100 Linecard > (http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/linecard/sa-1100/) > The ARM Website (www.arm.com) > and various Processor Whitepapers from Intel's website > > Barry > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 10:46:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29139 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:46:36 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29135 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:46:35 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id KAA29176; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:46:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005020846.KAA29176@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Tue May 02 10:46:32 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:14 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > On Mon, 1 May 2000, Barry Callahan wrote: >> And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in > development >> are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. > > Don't forget CISC MIPS are more significant then RISC MIPS that is > a RISC vs CISC issue. Mind you I'm not sure how dhrystones are qualified. > Also there is the issue that SA's have very pore address space context > switch times. Did you ever implement your fast context switch paper for Linux? Erik -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 11:25:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29237 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:25:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29233 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:25:06 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTX0073EE5Q4B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:25:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From rothaus With LocalMail ; Tue, 02 May 2000 19:22:25 +1000 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:22:25 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: <200005020846.KAA29176@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: awiggins@rothaus.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hehehe, no I haven't. It actually part of a new thesis topic we are offering. I'd love to get back to working on my kernel but I haven't had the time. I'm more then happy to assist anyone interested in implimenting it though. One person was doing it but then changed jobs :( Alternatively I might get it done sometime real soon now (TM). Cheers Adam On Tue, 2 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:14 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > On Mon, 1 May 2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > >> And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in > > development > >> are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. > > > > Don't forget CISC MIPS are more significant then RISC MIPS that is > > a RISC vs CISC issue. Mind you I'm not sure how dhrystones are qualified. > > Also there is the issue that SA's have very pore address space context > > switch times. > > Did you ever implement your fast context switch paper for Linux? > > > Erik > > -- > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they > are different -- Larry McVoy > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 11:38:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29262 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:38:37 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29258 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:38:37 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA29463; Tue, 2 May 2000 11:38:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005020938.LAA29463@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: awiggins@cse.unsw.edu.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Tue May 02 11:38:27 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 02 May 2000 19:22:25 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Hehehe, no I haven't. It actually part of a new thesis topic we > are offering. I'd love to get back to working on my kernel but I haven't > had the time. I'm more then happy to assist anyone interested in > implimenting it though. One person was doing it but then changed jobs :( > Alternatively I might get it done sometime real soon now (TM). How far did he get? JDB and I have been talking about doing fancy clone() things to get the same memory mapping for all processes and so bring down the context switch time, but IMHO this is not The Right Thing [tm]. Do you have an estimate on the implementation time of your hack^H^H^H^Hidea? Erik PS: Could you post the URL of you paper on this list? I think lots of people don't know what we're talking about... -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 2 16:51:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA30399 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 2 May 2000 16:51:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA30395 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 16:51:48 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTX0078ET57DB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 2 May 2000 16:51:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I looked at doing that some time ago, however I found it less suited to the Linux architecture. In some cases it would even be a loss because of Linux's wide address space for user processes, shared libraries, etc. I wrote some notes to Adam at the time but I don't remember most of them ATM. On Tue, 2 May 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Hehehe, no I haven't. It actually part of a new thesis topic we > are offering. I'd love to get back to working on my kernel but I haven't > had the time. I'm more then happy to assist anyone interested in > implimenting it though. One person was doing it but then changed jobs :( > Alternatively I might get it done sometime real soon now (TM). > > Cheers Adam > > On Tue, 2 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > On Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:14 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > > On Mon, 1 May 2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > > >> And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in > > > development > > >> are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. > > > > > > Don't forget CISC MIPS are more significant then RISC MIPS that is > > > a RISC vs CISC issue. Mind you I'm not sure how dhrystones are qualified. > > > Also there is the issue that SA's have very pore address space context > > > switch times. > > > > Did you ever implement your fast context switch paper for Linux? > > > > > > Erik > > > > -- > > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they > > are different -- Larry McVoy > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 00:21:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31702 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 00:21:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31698 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 00:21:19 +0200 Received: from nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.31]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTY003EBE3F5C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 00:21:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 128 invoked by uid 60001); Tue, 02 May 2000 22:19:14 +0000 Received: from 204.68.23.31 by nwcst286 for [209.76.100.150] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Tue May 2 22:19:14 GMT 2000 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 16:19:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Jamie Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000502221914.127.qmail@nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id AAA31699 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >You can get from MAPLIN - www.maplin.co.uk > PART CODE: VY57M > GPS SIMM Module £99.99 >i'm still looking for a cheaper option, but it is a start How about the Garmin 25LP. I recall seeing this for about US$130 somewhere on the web, so its a bit cheaper. They have a copule of other models too, like one in a black case with a long DB9 serial cable and a power cable to plug into a car cigarette lighter (US$195 I think). Here's my idea (maybe it should go into the ideas page): A LART based Lojack device using - A LART - GPS - one of those really cheap CCD cameras with a pinhole lens - a celular phone - some means of determining the car has been broken into The idea being that when the car is stolen the LART calls you with its location, and a picture of the person driving. Or you can ring it at any time to see where your car is. Not a cheap idea, but if you did it right it could be relatively inexpensive (for what you get). Jamie -- Jamie "Life is a game. He who dies with the most money wins." - Danny DeVito in 'Other Peoples Money' ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:00:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32228 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:00:53 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32224 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:00:52 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FTY00209LHESF@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:00:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.62] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A9BBF3300236; Tue, 02 May 2000 19:58:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:00:27 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <390F7A2B.8FB4F6DF@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000502221914.127.qmail@nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hmm, if it's effective enough and passes tests by insurance companies, discounts on insurance would definately make the $500 or so deluxe security device worth it. Now let's come out with three or four competing versions to push the level of quality and functionality and then get together on a set of standards for device communications like the big boys supposedly do... :) Or perhaps one with modules that will allow for disabling electronics (dangerous unless the device can determine that the wheels are no longer rotating indicating that the car had stopped), one that will trigger the horn and flash the lights (Look, I'm a stolen car!), maybe one that will allow voice communication with the thief (makem mess their pants). Yeah, we could run with this and come up with a lot of neat things (KSSD - Kitchen Sink Security Device)... Mike Jamie wrote: > > How about the Garmin > 25LP. I recall seeing this for about US$130 somewhere on the web, so its > a bit cheaper. They have a copule of href="http://www.garmin.com/oem/">other models too, like one in a black > case with a long DB9 serial cable and a power cable to plug into a car > cigarette lighter (US$195 I think). > > Here's my idea (maybe it should go into the ideas page): > A LART based Lojack device using > - A LART > - GPS > - one of those really cheap CCD cameras with a pinhole lens > - a celular phone > - some means of determining the car has been broken into > > The idea being that when the car is stolen the LART calls you with its > location, and a picture of the person driving. Or you can ring it at any time > to see where your car is. > > Not a cheap idea, but if you did it right it could be relatively inexpensive > (for what you get). > > Jamie > > -- > Jamie > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:24:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32279 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:24:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32275 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:24:47 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTY007OCML3U9@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:24:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 03 May 2000 11:20:32 +1000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:20:12 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: <390F7A2B.8FB4F6DF@mjv.com> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "utility account for group.pleb " Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Question: Does GPS work underwater? And does anyone know how accurate it is in Australia? Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:33:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32305 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:33:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32301 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:33:22 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTY0082ZMZHKR@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:33:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 03 May 2000 11:33:07 +1000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:33:07 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Nicolas Pitre Cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 May 2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > I looked at doing that some time ago, however I found it less suited to > the Linux architecture. In some cases it would even be a loss because of > Linux's wide address space for user processes, shared libraries, etc. > > I wrote some notes to Adam at the time but I don't remember most of them > ATM. Ok to answer all questions here. 1 only the theory and implimentation design have been done and they are for my L4 style kernel. I never looked at linux directly. We were going to do an L4Linux port and try and make it faster then native linux on ARM but using a Position Indipendent Code and using some Single Address Space techniques but we haven't had the man power to do that yet and I've been too busy to finish my kernel. As for directly changing native linux the same thing could be done but it would require a lot of work I imagine to redesign most of the VM internals etc. Since I'm not familiar with them I can't say how practical that is. A few more idea's have floated around on our work (since the work I did has application to some of our SASOS research and we want to apply it to StrongARM and IA-64) but no ones working on it. I'd be happy to share the ideas and get some cooprative work going if anyones interested (it might even get me back onto my kernel). In general peoples misconceptions about microkernels have inhibited people from showing any interest in L4 and L4Linux in general. If we could get L4Linux/ARM running context switches faster then Linux/ARM that might attract attention but it requires a small team which I don't have. I'm fairly convinced it can be done though with the StrongARM's and even better with the ARM9's. Cheers Adam > > > On Tue, 2 May 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > > Hehehe, no I haven't. It actually part of a new thesis topic we > > are offering. I'd love to get back to working on my kernel but I haven't > > had the time. I'm more then happy to assist anyone interested in > > implimenting it though. One person was doing it but then changed jobs :( > > Alternatively I might get it done sometime real soon now (TM). > > > > Cheers Adam > > > > On Tue, 2 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 02 May 2000 16:57:14 +1000 (EST), Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > > > On Mon, 1 May 2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > > > >> And, in case you're interested, the ARM10 Thumb processors still in > > > > development > > > >> are expected to be 400 MIPS +. A 200MHz Pentium-Pro Dhrystones at ~400 MIPS. > > > > > > > > Don't forget CISC MIPS are more significant then RISC MIPS that is > > > > a RISC vs CISC issue. Mind you I'm not sure how dhrystones are qualified. > > > > Also there is the issue that SA's have very pore address space context > > > > switch times. > > > > > > Did you ever implement your fast context switch paper for Linux? > > > > > > > > > Erik > > > > > > -- > > > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they > > > are different -- Larry McVoy > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:46:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32348 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:46:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32344 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:46:57 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTY00825NM4S1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:46:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 03 May 2000 11:46:49 +1000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:46:49 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: Some clarity on if this could be done (fwd) In-reply-to: <200005020938.LAA29463@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Erik Mouw Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > How far did he get? JDB and I have been talking about doing fancy clone() > things to get the same memory mapping for all processes and so bring down > the context switch time, but IMHO this is not The Right Thing [tm]. Do you > have an estimate on the implementation time of your hack^H^H^H^Hidea? > 6-9 man months to do the micro-kernel and port linux ontop of it. Thats a big quess. To do the microkernel stuff shouldn't take too long but coding 100% asm isn't fast and people tend not to want to get there hands dirty with it ;) We are toying with the idea of a mixed C/ASM kernel but we don't have the proper tools to interface C/ASM fast (since the C calling standard puts a lot of overhead with stack/register rearrangment of arguments/resutls) I was going to design some but its at the bottom of my TODO list ;) > > Erik > > PS: Could you post the URL of you paper on this list? I think lots of > people don't know what we're talking about... > The best source is my thesis extends the paper and you can focus on the relavent bits (ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/users/awiggins/thesis.ps) or you can get the ACAC paper from (http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~disy/papers/index.html) its the one at the top on Fast Address Space Switching on the SA1100. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:50:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32367 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32363 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:22 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTY0084KNRTS1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 03 May 2000 11:49:09 +1000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:49:09 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: <200005030143.LAA16149@xevious.dstc.monash.edu.au> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: davida@pobox.com Cc: "utility account for group.pleb " , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 May 2000, david wrote: > -->"Adam" == Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins writes: > > Adam> Does GPS work underwater? > > i don't think so. you need to get the satellite signal. Someone mentioned it worked underground so I was wondering if the signal can penetrate water and to what depth. It would be nice for diving navigation ;) Dave wants to use a PLEB for a rebreather computer so why not navigation too... Cheers Adam > > Adam> And does anyone know how accurate it is in Australia? > > since yesterday, it should have become a whole lot better (they are > reported to have turned the scrambling off finally!) > > so it's as accurate here as anywhere. i don't know of any radio > beacons for the differential stuff, but then i don't know much about > it in general ;-) Which is? Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 03:50:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32382 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:50 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32378 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:49 +0200 Received: from xevious.dstc.monash.edu.au (xevious.dstc.monash.edu.au [130.194.228.7]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTY0083KNSKRN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 03:50:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from dstc.monash.edu.au (ladybug.dstc.monash.edu.au [130.194.228.78]) by xevious.dstc.monash.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16149; Wed, 03 May 2000 11:43:13 +1000 (EST) X-URL: Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:43:13 +1000 From: david X-Face: 2#;/avfeVL:b To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: "utility account for group.pleb " , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: davida@pobox.com Message-id: <200005030143.LAA16149@xevious.dstc.monash.edu.au> X-Attribution: davida X-Files: wednesday, 8:30pm Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk -->"Adam" == Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins writes: Adam> Does GPS work underwater? i don't think so. you need to get the satellite signal. Adam> And does anyone know how accurate it is in Australia? since yesterday, it should have become a whole lot better (they are reported to have turned the scrambling off finally!) so it's as accurate here as anywhere. i don't know of any radio beacons for the differential stuff, but then i don't know much about it in general ;-) d -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 04:13:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA32473 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:13:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA32469 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:13:22 +0200 Received: from reflect.newenterprises.com (newenterprises.com [207.155.90.15]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTY0095POU71C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:13:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (gduncan@localhost) by reflect.newenterprises.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e431VaD30410; Tue, 02 May 2000 18:31:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Duncan Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: "utility account for group.pleb " , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 May 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Question: Does GPS work underwater? Not at all. Radio at these wavelengths are absorbed by water. > And does anyone know how accurate it is in Australia? For a device, GPS should have about the same accuracy world wide. Glen -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 04:29:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA32525 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:29:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA32521 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:29:19 +0200 Received: from neptune.simtax.ca (edtn004343.hs.telusplanet.net [161.184.153.25]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTY0098LPKQ1C@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:29:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dsimader@localhost) by neptune.simtax.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA01829 for ; Tue, 02 May 2000 20:28:32 -0600 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:28:31 -0600 (MDT) From: D Simader Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: <390F7A2B.8FB4F6DF@mjv.com> X-Sender: dsimader@neptune.simtax.ca To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk A company in Quebec, Canada (Ralph's Auto ???) builds a car tracker which works with a cell phone. Insurance companies I believe give a 15% discount in Quebec if you have a tracker installed. One problem with GPS, I have been told, is that you cannot detect a signal if you park in a tunnel or parkgarage. The company had their first unit based on GPS technology as well. However, they switch to cell phones when they found out that a block of concrete is pretty safe to hide under. kind regards, Dieter Simader DWS Systems Inc. kind regards, Dieter Simader DWS Systems Inc. On Tue, 2 May 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote: > Hmm, if it's effective enough and passes tests by insurance companies, > discounts on insurance would definately make the $500 or so deluxe > security device worth it. Now let's come out with three or four > competing versions to push the level of quality and functionality and > then get together on a set of standards for device communications like > the big boys supposedly do... :) Or perhaps one with modules that will > allow for disabling electronics (dangerous unless the device can > determine that the wheels are no longer rotating indicating that the car > had stopped), one that will trigger the horn and flash the lights (Look, > I'm a stolen car!), maybe one that will allow voice communication with > the thief (makem mess their pants). Yeah, we could run with this and > come up with a lot of neat things (KSSD - Kitchen Sink Security > Device)... > > Mike -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 06:00:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA32659 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 06:00:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA32655 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 06:00:04 +0200 Received: from calvino.alaska.net (calvino.alaska.net [209.112.129.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTY00A1ATS1N1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 06:00:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rus@localhost) by calvino.alaska.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA26760; Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:09 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:09 -0800 (AKDT) From: ":-)" Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: X-Sender: rus@calvino To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: calvino.alaska.net: rus owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 May 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Question: Does GPS work underwater? And does anyone know how > accurate it is in Australia? Nope. Just as accurate as anywhere else and now it's even better because they turned off selective availability. Russ Pagenkopf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 07:23:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA00045 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 07:23:32 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA00041 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 07:23:31 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTY00B8EXN4V5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 07:23:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.131) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 02 May 2000 22:13:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:13:50 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: re GPS X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000502220253.00b963c0@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Sorry for the size, but I think you will find it interesting if you are >interested in GPS. (s) Derek >All, > >I wrote a special version of Tac32Plus yesterday specifically to capture >this event. The receiver used in this test was a Motorola >M12 Version 1.3. > >The following data is extracted from a log that stores every significant >change in satellite status (NOT Azimuth, Elevation, SNR). >Because of this most of the entries show the events during signal >acquisition and loss of signal. Once the satellite is being >tracked only the occasional parity error is logged. EXCEPT for the change >in SA state around 08:00 UTC! > >The following data is from a two hour period from 07:00 UTC to 09:00 >UTC. At 07:59:50 things begin to happen all at once. > >Rick WB2TNL >============= >36648.291285 (Tue May 02, 2000 06:59:27 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.292373 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:01:01 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 0, Available >36648.292419 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:01:05 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.292593 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:01:20 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 0, Available >36648.292616 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:01:22 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.292628 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:01:23 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 71, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.294237 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:03:42 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 69, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.294260 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:03:44 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 69, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.294341 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:03:51 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 69, >SNR 21, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.294399 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:03:56 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 69, >SNR 19, AS, SA >36648.296829 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:07:26 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 10, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.296841 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:07:27 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Available >36648.296852 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:07:28 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.296875 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:07:30 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.297373 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:13 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 18, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.297419 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:17 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 18, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.297454 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:20 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.297466 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:21 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.297477 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:22 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 19, Azm 127, >SNR 22, AS, SA >36648.297709 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:42 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 10, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.297744 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:45 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 9, AS, SA >36648.297767 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:47 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.297813 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:08:51 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 11, AS, SA >36648.298033 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:10 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 10, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.298044 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:11 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 0, Available >36648.298102 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:16 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.298149 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:20 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.298207 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:25 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 0, Available >36648.298218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:26 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.298241 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:09:28 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 67, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.298785 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:10:15 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 66, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.298820 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:10:18 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 66, >SNR 15, AS, SA >36648.299028 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:10:36 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 66, >SNR 0, Available >36648.299040 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:10:37 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 66, >SNR 11, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.299075 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:10:40 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 66, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.300753 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:13:05 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 9, Azm 43, >SNR 14, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.300788 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:13:08 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 9, Azm 43, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.306586 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:21:29 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.306609 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:21:31 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 0, Available >36648.306644 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:21:34 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 61, >SNR 11, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.306644 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:21:34 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.306679 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:21:37 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 61, >SNR 13, AS, SA >36648.306980 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:22:03 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.307385 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:22:38 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.307431 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:22:42 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.307477 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:22:46 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.307489 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:22:47 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 13, Azm 131, >SNR 13, AS, SA >36648.308102 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:23:40 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 5, Azm 43, >SNR 14, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.308137 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:23:43 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 5, Azm 44, >SNR 13, AS, SA >36648.308183 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:23:47 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 5, Azm 44, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.308218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:23:50 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 5, Azm 44, >SNR 0, Available >36648.308264 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:23:54 UTC) Sat PRN 30, El 5, Azm 44, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.308345 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:24:01 UTC) Sat PRN 30 no longer in use >36648.309630 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:25:52 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 59, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.309711 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:25:59 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 20, Azm 59, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.310406 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:26:59 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 11, Azm 132, >SNR 0, Available >36648.310440 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:27:02 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 11, Azm 132, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.313855 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:31:57 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 9, Azm 133, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.313901 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:32:01 UTC) Sat PRN 29, El 9, Azm 133, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.315521 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:34:21 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.315568 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:34:25 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.315602 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:34:28 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.315649 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:34:32 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Ephemeris Acquire >36648.315950 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:34:58 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.315984 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:35:01 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 9, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.317605 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:21 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.317651 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:25 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.317744 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:33 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.317790 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:37 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.318010 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:56 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.318021 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:37:57 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.318079 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:38:02 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 10, Azm 169, >SNR 0, Ephemeris Acquire >36648.318426 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:38:32 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 11, Azm 169, >SNR 19, AS, SA >36648.318982 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:39:20 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 19, Azm 54, >SNR 0, Available >36648.318994 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:39:21 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 19, Azm 54, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.319028 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:39:24 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 19, Azm 54, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.319503 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:40:05 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 19, Azm 53, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.319514 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:40:06 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 19, Azm 53, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.322547 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:44:28 UTC) Sat PRN 29 no longer in use >36648.323276 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:45:31 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 13, Azm 167, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.323311 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:45:34 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 13, Azm 167, >SNR 13, AS, SA >36648.323658 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:46:04 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 13, Azm 167, >SNR 0, Available >36648.323785 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:46:15 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 14, Azm 167, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.325625 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:48:54 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.325811 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:49:10 UTC) Sat PRN 19 no longer in use >36648.325973 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:49:24 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.326100 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:49:35 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 15, Azm 167, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.326146 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:49:39 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 15, Azm 167, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.326713 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:50:28 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 49, >SNR 14, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.326783 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:50:34 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 49, >SNR 15, AS, SA >36648.327686 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:51:52 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.327732 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:51:56 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.327767 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:51:59 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.327813 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:52:03 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.328079 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:52:26 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 0, Available >36648.328149 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:52:32 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.328160 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:52:33 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.328739 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:23 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.328762 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:25 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.328774 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:26 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.328785 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:27 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.328797 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:28 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 20, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.328843 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:32 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Available >36648.328843 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:32 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 17, Azm 48, >SNR 19, AS, SA >36648.328855 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:53:33 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 16, Azm 166, >SNR 17, AS, SA >36648.330718 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:56:14 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 17, Azm 166, >SNR 11, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.330741 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:56:16 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 17, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Available >36648.330764 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:56:18 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 17, Azm 166, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.330788 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:56:20 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 17, Azm 166, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.331540 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:57:25 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 47, >SNR 11, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.331563 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:57:27 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 47, >SNR 0, Available >36648.331575 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:57:28 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 47, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.331598 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:57:30 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 47, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.332153 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:18 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 46, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.332200 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:22 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 16, Azm 46, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.332281 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:29 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 13, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.332315 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:32 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 12, AS, SA >36648.332338 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:34 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 11, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.332373 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:37 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 10, AS, SA >36648.332385 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:38 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.332454 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:44 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 10, AS, SA >36648.332500 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:48 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 12, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.332535 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:58:51 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 18, Azm 165, >SNR 14, AS, SA >36648.332906 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:23 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >*** >*** THIS IS IT!! - Sats 1,3,16,22,25 switch all at once. >*** >36648.333218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 1, El 41, Azm 312, >SNR 25, AS >36648.333218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 19, Azm 165, >SNR 20, AS >36648.333218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 28, Azm 294, >SNR 22, AS >36648.333218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 22, El 79, Azm 223, >SNR 29, AS >36648.333218 (Tue May 02, 2000 07:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 25, El 46, Azm 72, >SNR 30, AS >*** Acqusition of Sat 6 - NO SA! >36648.333750 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:36 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 46, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.333774 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:38 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.333797 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:40 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.333832 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:43 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 11, AS, SA >36648.333855 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:45 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 18, AS, SA, Parity Error >36648.333913 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:00:50 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 18, AS >36648.334364 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:01:29 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 13, AS, Parity Error >36648.334422 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:01:34 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 45, >SNR 14, AS >*** >*** Acqusition of Sats 18 and 19 - takes a while before we get a good signal >*** (see 08:05:08 and 08:06:08) but when we do there is NO SA! >*** >36648.334723 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:00 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.334769 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:04 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.334792 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:06 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.334838 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:10 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.335047 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:28 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.335093 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:32 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 8, Azm 281, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.335301 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:50 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 315, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.335348 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:02:54 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.335533 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:03:10 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.335579 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:03:14 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.335625 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:03:18 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.335672 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:03:22 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 315, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.336169 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:05 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.336216 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:09 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.336239 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:11 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 11, AS, Parity Error >36648.336239 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:11 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.336274 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:14 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 14, AS >36648.336285 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:15 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 6, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.336343 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:20 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 10, AS, Parity Error >36648.336355 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:21 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 12, AS, Parity Error >36648.336366 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:22 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 11, AS >36648.336389 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:24 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 10, AS >36648.336401 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:25 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 11, AS, Parity Error >36648.336424 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:27 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Available >36648.336436 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:28 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.336459 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:30 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 13, AS, Parity Error >36648.336470 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:31 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.336470 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:31 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.336505 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:34 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 15, Azm 44, >SNR 17, AS >36648.336517 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:35 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 7, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.336517 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:35 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.336551 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:38 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 7, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.336621 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:04:44 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 7, Azm 316, >SNR 0, Ephemeris Acquire >36648.336899 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:08 UTC) Sat PRN 18, El 7, Azm 316, >SNR 19, AS >36648.337234 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:37 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.337281 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:41 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.337292 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:42 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.337338 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:46 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.337385 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:50 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 0, Ephemeris Acquire >36648.337419 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:53 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.337431 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:05:54 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 16, AS >36648.337593 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:06:08 UTC) Sat PRN 19, El 9, Azm 282, >SNR 19, AS >36648.337628 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:06:11 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 11, AS, Parity Error >36648.337663 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:06:14 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 13, AS >36648.337755 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:06:22 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 13, AS, Parity Error >36648.337790 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:06:25 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 21, Azm 164, >SNR 14, AS >36648.339491 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:08:52 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 22, Azm 163, >SNR 9, AS, Parity Error >36648.339538 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:08:56 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 164, >SNR 11, AS >36648.339549 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:08:57 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 164, >SNR 10, AS, Parity Error >36648.339561 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:08:58 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 164, >SNR 11, AS >36648.339584 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:00 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 164, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.339607 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:02 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 164, >SNR 12, AS >36648.339908 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:28 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 10, AS, Parity Error >36648.339989 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:35 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 14, AS >36648.340128 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:47 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 11, AS, Parity Error >36648.340163 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:50 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 0, Available >36648.340186 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:52 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.340197 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:09:53 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 23, Azm 163, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.341841 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:12:15 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 24, Azm 163, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.341852 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:12:16 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 24, Azm 163, >SNR 17, AS >36648.343669 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:14:53 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 13, AS, Parity Error >36648.343704 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:14:56 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 16, AS >36648.343785 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:15:03 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 0, Available >36648.343808 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:15:05 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.344457 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:16:01 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.344503 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:16:05 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 25, Azm 162, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.344549 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:16:09 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 26, Azm 162, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.344584 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:16:12 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 26, Azm 162, >SNR 19, AS >36648.352836 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:28:05 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 9, Azm 37, SNR >0, Available >36648.352859 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:28:07 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 9, Azm 37, SNR >11, AS, Parity Error >36648.352871 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:28:08 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 9, Azm 37, SNR >13, AS >36648.353392 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:28:53 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.354318 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:30:13 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 5, Azm 186, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.354364 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:30:17 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 5, Azm 186, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.360394 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:38:58 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.360417 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:39:00 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.360440 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:39:02 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 0, Ephemeris Acquire >36648.360788 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:39:32 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 20, AS >36648.361737 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:40:54 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 11, AS, Parity Error >36648.361760 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:40:56 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 9, AS >36648.361771 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:40:57 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 9, AS, Parity Error >36648.361783 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:40:58 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.361864 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:41:05 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 9, Azm 185, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.362119 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:41:27 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >12, AS, Parity Error >36648.362142 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:41:29 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Available >36648.362176 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:41:32 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.362489 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:41:59 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.362535 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:03 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.362582 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:07 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.362628 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:11 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.362732 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:20 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.362778 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:24 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.362859 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:31 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.362906 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:35 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.363033 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:46 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.363079 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:50 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.363149 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:42:56 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.363195 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:00 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.363241 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:04 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Freq Acquire >36648.363288 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:08 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 5, Azm 34, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.363345 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:13 UTC) Sat PRN 6 no longer in use >36648.363507 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:27 UTC) Sat PRN 6, El 0, Azm 0, SNR >0, Code Search >36648.363693 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:43:43 UTC) Sat PRN 6 no longer in use >36648.365556 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:46:24 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.365602 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:46:28 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.365845 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:46:49 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.365892 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:46:53 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.365996 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:02 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.366054 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:07 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.366193 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:19 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.366250 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:24 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.366297 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:28 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.366343 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:47:32 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 12, Azm 184, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.367720 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:31 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 0, Available >36648.367732 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:32 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.367744 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:33 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.367790 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:37 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.367801 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:38 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 23, AS >36648.367813 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:39 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 23, AS, Parity Error >36648.367836 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:41 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 269, >SNR 23, AS >36648.367952 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:51 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 0, Available >36648.367998 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:55 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 14, AS, Parity Error >36648.368033 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:49:58 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 16, AS >36648.368207 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:50:13 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 10, AS, Parity Error >36648.368230 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:50:15 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.368264 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:50:18 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.368334 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:50:24 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.368380 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:50:28 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 40, Azm 155, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.368982 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:20 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.369028 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:24 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.369086 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:29 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.369121 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:32 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 12, AS >36648.369156 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:35 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 21, AS, Parity Error >36648.369202 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:51:39 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 41, Azm 154, >SNR 23, AS >36648.370707 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:49 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Available >36648.370718 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:50 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.370730 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:51 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.370776 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:55 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.370788 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:56 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 25, AS, Parity Error >36648.370811 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:53:58 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 25, Azm 267, >SNR 26, AS >36648.371748 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:19 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Available >36648.371760 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:20 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.371771 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:21 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.371818 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:25 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 267, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.371829 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:26 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 266, >SNR 25, AS, Parity Error >36648.371852 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:55:28 UTC) Sat PRN 16, El 24, Azm 266, >SNR 24, AS >36648.374144 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:58:46 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 10, AS, Parity Error >36648.374156 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:58:47 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 10, AS >36648.374179 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:58:49 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.374190 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:58:50 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 0, Available >36648.374202 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:58:51 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 14, AS >36648.374746 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:38 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 17, Azm 183, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.374757 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:39 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 12, AS, Parity Error >36648.374757 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:39 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 17, Azm 183, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.374769 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:40 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 0, Message Sync Detect >36648.374792 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:42 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 44, Azm 152, >SNR 0, Code Search >36648.374885 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:50 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 17, Azm 183, >SNR 0, Available >36648.374896 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:51 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 17, Azm 183, >SNR 19, AS, Parity Error >36648.374908 (Tue May 02, 2000 08:59:52 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 17, Azm 183, >SNR 18, AS >36648.375105 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:00:09 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 45, Azm 152, >SNR 0, Freq Acquire >36648.375116 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:00:10 UTC) Sat PRN 3, El 45, Azm 152, >SNR 17, AS >36648.376447 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:02:05 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 18, Azm 183, >SNR 14, AS, Parity Error >36648.376505 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:02:10 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 18, Azm 183, >SNR 14, AS >36648.376517 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:02:11 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 18, Azm 183, >SNR 12, AS, Parity Error >36648.376551 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:02:14 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 18, Azm 183, >SNR 14, AS >36648.376725 (Tue May 02, 2000 09:02:29 UTC) Sat PRN 31, El 18, Azm 183, >SNR 0, Available >==================== -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 09:02:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00369 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:02:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00365 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:02:46 +0200 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTZ00EFN28KK8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:02:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p2cl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.36.58]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12mt8n-000OPn-0A for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 03 May 2000 07:00:14 +0000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 07:34:05 +0100 From: Steve Goodwin Subject: UK request for assembled was... a small proposal, status (sadly) To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <+V8CyJFTKg8YY90U9L23ssZ5tx> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk To all... It's become impossible to promise any activity on this from me for the foreseeable future, despite the fact that that I'm still personally interested. Sorry... As promised, here are all the names I could find who expressed interest in the European situation. I believe I have all the Reply To addresses correct. Please excuse me if I have made a mistake I am sorry I haven't listed all the desires. If anyone wants to look at the whole, I'll e-mail all the relevant messages directly. At least one may be duplicates of messages sent "across the pond" please e-mail steve.lart@p2cl.demon.co.uk on this subject. Raphael Gray Toby Jaffey Fredrik Rothamel patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be Tim Morley Rodney Arne Karlsen Steve Wiseman Jurgen Kramer David Belius gary.sims@barco.com Martin Oldfield **** not sure about this address *** Richard H Cole Regards -- Steve Goodwin ******************************************************************** Any opinions, express or implied, presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd. ******************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 09:17:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00434 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:17:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00430 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:17:51 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTZ00FFQ2XN6D@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:17:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 03 May 2000 17:14:16 +1000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:14:15 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Photon kits In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Cc: "utility account for group.pleb " Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Ok this is just a non-commital question. Since I'm having problems making and distributing PLEB Photon board how many people would be interested in buying Photons as kits (PCB + Part, maybe just the hard to get parts at that. The rest to get through farnell, etc.) or buying parts from us? I will probably do a stock take soon to see what parts we actually have and how much they are worth. I'll still be making a few Photons assembled for those who've already put down for them and making the boards isn't for the fait at heart. Cheers Adam P.S. as this is just a query of interest please just mail me personally don't cc to either list. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 09:25:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00468 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:25:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00464 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:25:12 +0200 Received: from musse.tninet.se (musse.tninet.se [195.100.94.12]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTZ00G4139U7S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:25:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 22526 invoked from network); Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:06 +0200 Received: from sheridan.tninet.se (HELO algonet.se) (195.100.94.102) by musse.tninet.se with SMTP; Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:06 +0200 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [194.213.74.200]) by algonet.se (BLUETAIL Mail Robustifier 2.0.2) with ESMTP id sheridan-s1-957.338526.215792 ; Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:06 +0200 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Yann Vernier Subject: Re: UK request for assembled was... a small proposal, status (sadly) In-reply-to: To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Cc: steve.lart@p2cl.demon.co.uk Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'm also interested in LARTs here in europe. On Wed, 3 May 2000, Steve Goodwin wrote: > As promised, here are all the names I could find who expressed interest > in the European situation. > > please e-mail steve.lart@p2cl.demon.co.uk on this subject. > Yann Vernier > Raphael Gray > Toby Jaffey > Fredrik Rothamel > patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be > Tim Morley > Rodney Arne Karlsen > Steve Wiseman > Jurgen Kramer > David Belius > gary.sims@barco.com > Martin Oldfield **** not sure about this address *** > Richard H Cole -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 09:31:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00502 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:31:16 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00498 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:31:15 +0200 Received: from jhcloos.com (austin.jhcloos.com [206.224.83.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTZ00GBG3K17S@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:31:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from cloos@localhost) by jhcloos.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18146; Wed, 03 May 2000 02:30:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 02:30:55 -0500 From: "James H. Cloos Jr." Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] In-reply-to: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins"'s message of "Wed, 3 May 2000 11:49:09 +1000 (EST)" To: "utility account for group.pleb " Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 25 References: X-Authentication-warning: austin.jhcloos.com: cloos set sender to cloos@jhcloos.com using -f Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Adam" == Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins writes: Adam> Someone mentioned it worked underground so I was wondering if Adam> the signal can penetrate water and to what depth. It would be Adam> nice for diving navigation ;) Dave wants to use a PLEB for a Adam> rebreather computer so why not navigation too... IIRC, the signals are such that they penetrate a few feet of sea water. (The band is OTOO 1.5 GHz.) Usual suspect is a towed buoy w/ an antenna. But see . They have some interesting ideas. (And patents, ....) Also give: a look. -JimC -- James H. Cloos, Jr. 1024D/ED7DAEA6 E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Check out TGC: -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 11:14:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00724 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:14:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00720 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:14:53 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FTZ00LJ08CRZ3@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:14:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id CAA4258734 for ; Wed, 03 May 2000 02:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 02:12:19 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Subject: LART PC Boards (International Orders via Credit Card) To: Lart Mail Server Reply-to: greg.fountain@telvex.com Message-id: <390FED73.FF389F70@ix.netcom.com> Organization: Telvex MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------08A42E0F116ECF015AF4E909" X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------08A42E0F116ECF015AF4E909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, To make it a little easier to order LART PC Boards I've modified my order site (http://pweb.netcom.com/~sv_calif/ ) to accept credit cards from anywhere in the world and established a flat rate shipping fee. There were some problems for people in Europe with currency conversion and checks in US Dollars. I hope this solves the problem. Some of the feedback that I have received indicates that Parts Kits and assembled LARTs are also desired. I'll try and get to each of theses stages as time permits. Cheers, Greg Menlo Park, California USA --------------08A42E0F116ECF015AF4E909 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------08A42E0F116ECF015AF4E909-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 17:33:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01619 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:33:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01615 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:33:01 +0200 Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTZ000QJPUZ5A@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:33:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 14751 invoked by uid 60001); Wed, 03 May 2000 15:30:39 +0000 Received: from [129.37.96.160] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 03 May 2000 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "John van V." Subject: Re: [GPS Simm....] To: Glen Duncan , "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: "utility account for group.pleb " , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: john@thinman.com Message-id: <20000503153039.14750.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > Question: Does GPS work underwater? > But does TCP/IP work underwater ?? No. You have to use UDP - under-water datagram protocol ===== John van Vlaanderen ############################################# # CXN, Inc. Contact: john@thinman.com # # # Proud Sponsor of Perl/Unix of NY # # http://puny.vm.com # ############################################# __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 17:31:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01612 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:31:29 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01608 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:31:27 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id RAA08459; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:30:09 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005031530.RAA08459@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Clock scaling patch Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Wed May 03 17:30:08 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just released the clock scaling patch for the SA-1100 CPU. It works perfectly well on the LART, but it should work on any SA-1100 platform that uses 50ns EDO DRAM. I'm going to make it more generic, so it will run on other SA-1100 platforms as well. Have a look at: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/ The C file contains lots of documentation about how it works. Enjoy, Erik PS: I take a couple of days of, I'll be back in the office at monday. Maybe I read my email, maybe not. -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 20:16:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02298 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:16:22 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02294 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:16:21 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FTZ009GZXF8LE@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:16:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 16009 invoked from network); Wed, 03 May 2000 18:14:20 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([213.224.21.16]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; Wed, 03 May 2000 18:14:20 +0000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:10:48 +0200 From: PELGRIMS P Subject: JTAG interface with PC LPT-port or add in board? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be Message-id: <39106BA8.C84AD1A2@pandora.be> Organization: A MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dear Sir, Is there anyone who has build a (GPL) PC-JTAG interface to program the LART flash memory or take control over the StrongArm. On the PLEB-site there is an ANVIL etc.. anouncement but is not yet available ! Since we have to use it only a few times (we hope) a prof. device is to expensive. Hoping to receive some positive reaction, I meanwhile remain, P. Pelgrims -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 3 21:36:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02539 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 21:36:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02535 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 21:36:11 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU000CNR148G6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 3 May 2000 21:36:10 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:27:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: JTAG interface with PC LPT-port or add in board? In-reply-to: <39106BA8.C84AD1A2@pandora.be> To: PELGRIMS P Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 May 2000, PELGRIMS P wrote: > Dear Sir, > > Is there anyone who has build a (GPL) PC-JTAG interface to program the > LART flash memory or take control over the StrongArm. > On the PLEB-site there is an ANVIL etc.. anouncement but is not yet > available ! > Since we have to use it only a few times (we hope) a prof. device is to > expensive. > Hoping to receive some positive reaction, I meanwhile remain, Look at ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/SA1110Jflash.tgz. This uses the SA1110 bindings though. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 04:40:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03889 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 04:40:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03885 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 04:40:44 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU0000JGKRSR2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 04:40:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:38:02 +1000 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 12:38:01 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: JTAG interface with PC LPT-port or add in board? In-reply-to: <39106BA8.C84AD1A2@pandora.be> X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: PELGRIMS P Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have some starting code but not much. Also I believe someone ported the windows JTAG program for the assabet to linux. It may have been posted here I'll check. Cheers Adam P.S. the code I have is untested, if your interested in working on it I'm happy to give it to you to work on. On Wed, 3 May 2000, PELGRIMS P wrote: > Dear Sir, > > Is there anyone who has build a (GPL) PC-JTAG interface to program the > LART flash memory or take control over the StrongArm. > On the PLEB-site there is an ANVIL etc.. anouncement but is not yet > available ! > Since we have to use it only a few times (we hope) a prof. device is to > expensive. > Hoping to receive some positive reaction, I meanwhile remain, > > P. Pelgrims > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 10:49:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04739 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:49:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04735 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:49:27 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100D581UCN6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:49:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11478; Thu, 04 May 2000 16:50:43 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12604; Thu, 04 May 2000 16:42:07 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:42:56 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <39113810.C4AA5C46@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, While trying to figure out how StrongARM behave on cross boundary access, I encounter the following error ( I have the kernel-mode alignment trap handler on and off with the same result). For comparisom, I have the same program compile at x86 platform. The arm result is very strange. The behavior is realy unacceptable. It should either return run time error or some software emulation should return the correct result? I am using kernel 2.3.99-pre6-rmk1-np1. The kernel-mode alignment trap handler suppose to be able to catch this and return the correct result, but it has no effect for this case. A kernel problem? A GCC problem? Any hints? ==== x86 kk's starting address: 0x0xbffff86c i's address for kk + 0: 0x0xbffff86c 3 5 6 t i's address for kk + 1: 0x0xbffff86d 5 6 t g i's address for kk + 2: 0x0xbffff86e 6 t g h i's address for kk + 3: 0x0xbffff86f t g h n i's address for kk + 4: 0x0xbffff870 g h n o i's address for kk + 5: 0x0xbffff871 h n o r i's address for kk + 6: 0x0xbffff872 n o r q i's address for kk + 7: 0x0xbffff873 o r q i i's address for kk + 8: 0x0xbffff874 r q i p === SA1100 kk's starting address: 0x0xbffffd8c i's address for kk + 0: 0x0xbffffd8c 3 5 6 t i's address for kk + 1: 0x0xbffffd8d 5 6 t 3 i's address for kk + 2: 0x0xbffffd8e 6 t 3 5 i's address for kk + 3: 0x0xbffffd8f t 3 5 6 i's address for kk + 4: 0x0xbffffd90 g h n o i's address for kk + 5: 0x0xbffffd91 h n o g i's address for kk + 6: 0x0xbffffd92 n o g h i's address for kk + 7: 0x0xbffffd93 o g h n i's address for kk + 8: 0x0xbffffd94 r q i p The source code for this program: ======================== #include int main(void) { char kk[12] = {'3', '5', '6', 't', 'g', 'h', 'n', 'o', 'r', 'q', 'i', 'p'}; int *i; int y, j; printf("kk's starting address: 0x%p\n", kk); for (j = 0; j < 9; ++j) { i = (int *)(kk + j); printf("i's address for kk + %d: 0x%p %c %c %c %c\n", j, i, (*i) & 0xFF, ((*i) >> 8) & 0xff, ((*i)>>16)&0xff, ((*i)>>24) & 0xff); } return 0; } -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 11:03:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04806 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:03:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04802 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:03:29 +0200 Received: from mail2.netcologne.de (mail2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.103]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100DNP2HTN6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:03:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from colin.anarcho.net (dial-194-8-209-198.netcologne.de [194.8.209.198]) by mail2.netcologne.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10004; Thu, 04 May 2000 10:56:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from baer@localhost) by colin.anarcho.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03047; Thu, 04 May 2000 10:57:30 +0200 X-URL: Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 10:57:29 +0200 From: Thomas Renard X-Face: 43Gd&$n()k_953x*S*S$KvhoZ5HRR+\?HpR1~dG@&6B[/EKmoE.5mYc3v#`Ahf[{ekw}SL9 g|pT#VQ8a.~3xURG\j?G@roW>lq*V323P[~3fZu6.~DxATbN&IGSABZ*aQ*:1XPF-i[m"h.z&S[k3J a[.Rfdjk9(?uQ$CQ=-& Subject: Re: LART power situation In-reply-to: David Poisson's message of "Mon, 01 May 2000 21:29:35 +0000 (GMT)" To: David Poisson Cc: lart Message-id: Organization: The Anarcho Net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.070099 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.99) XEmacs/21.1 (Canyonlands) Lines: 25 References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk * David Poisson writes: > I was wondering what is the LART power situation ? Can you use > something other than batteries if it's available (like plug your > LART directly in a wall jack) > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org Hi there, I remember that on wear-hard@haven.org some link to ncr (or nec???) pointed to a page where special LiIon accumulators were shown. These things had the size of a credit card and 5mm thick and made about 1.5A/h-3A/h at 3V (??). These accus where made in a foil technique. I cannot find it in my archive of 1999/1998. Maybe some other can find it? These things are very good for the LART project. Thomas -- Thomas Renard Ich glaub, Atomstrom Thomas.Renard@smail.uni-koeln.de ist gelb -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 11:41:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04933 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:41:56 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04929 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:41:55 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100H7B49U1Y@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:41:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.110) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 04 May 2000 02:33:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 02:33:49 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: re: CDROM X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: jamilkhatib75@yahoo.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000504022939.00bc9100@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I am in southern California, USA. Zip code is 92551. I would be willing to reship, provided it doesn't cost me anything except time. That might work out well, sort of a GPL Amway? (just kidding!) Can you do Pay Pal or eGold? Or something else? Thanks... (s) Derek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 12:33:15 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05071 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:33:15 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05067 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:33:15 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (mail.on-location.net [206.126.129.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100L386ND91@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:33:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.113) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 04 May 2000 03:25:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 03:25:09 -0700 From: Derek Lassen Subject: RE: re: CDROM In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000504022939.00bc9100@mail.clubnet.net> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000504032431.00bedb30@mail.clubnet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Opps. Sorry. Wrong address. At 02:33 AM 5/4/00 -0700, you wrote: >I am in southern California, USA. Zip code is 92551. > >I would be willing to reship, provided it doesn't cost me anything except >time. >That might work out well, sort of a GPL Amway? (just kidding!) > >Can you do Pay Pal or eGold? Or something else? > >Thanks... >(s) Derek > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 14:53:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA05502 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:53:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05498 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:53:19 +0200 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU100B9YD4U9J@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:53:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 9463 invoked from network); Thu, 04 May 2000 12:49:17 +0000 Received: from useray09.uk.uudial.com (HELO opticalflowsrv1.ofs.co.uk) (62.188.139.99) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:49:17 +0000 Received: by OPTICALFLOWSRV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2XBWLWJY>; Thu, 04 May 2000 13:41:23 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:41:23 +0100 From: Callum Gray Subject: LART for image acquisition To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have an application I am working on where I need a very low power consumption image processing system that will also have the capability of interfaceing to a frame grabber device. Searching yesterday I found a number of commercial PCI frame grabbers that have Linux drivers but it is not clear to me whether the LART could be used as the host for acquisition as well as processing. Please excuse me if this is a naive question I guess I am asking a broad question about how I might interface a pretty standard CCD camera to a LART I need enought band width to acquire at least 3 successive interlaced images. On my PC here its a doddle to buy a frame grabber and it is PC based systems I usually build but the system I am looking to build must work in remote locations and would need to be powered from a car battery with perhaps recharge from solar or wind power generator. Hope you can help me understand if this is possible or likely to be possible in the near - middle future. Thanks in anticipation. Callum Dr. Callum Gray Optical Flow Systems Ltd. The Bush Research Park Technopole Centre Bush Loan Edinburgh EH26 0PJ Tel +44 (0)131 475 7551 mob 07939178558 Fax +44 (0) 131 475 7566 http://www.ofs.co.uk http://www.ofs.co.uk/software -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 15:07:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05573 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:07:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05569 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:07:44 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100C39DSUUJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:07:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06566; Thu, 04 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:00:20 -0400 (EDT) From: rob Subject: Re: LART for image acquisition In-reply-to: To: Callum Gray Cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 May 2000, Callum Gray wrote: > I guess I am asking a broad question about how I might interface a pretty > standard CCD camera to a LART I need enought band width to acquire at least > 3 successive interlaced images. On my PC here its a doddle to buy a frame > grabber and it is PC based systems I usually build but the system I am > looking to build must work in remote locations and would need to be powered > from a car battery with perhaps recharge from solar or wind power generator. i've seen the winnov videum pcmcia framegrabber+camera card working on something called a skiff (which is a strong arm from CRL or WRL). once the lart has a pcmcia connector this shouldn't be hard to make work. rob ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 15:57:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05733 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:57:55 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05729 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:57:54 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.47]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU100GO5G4G9G@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:57:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 71181 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 04 May 2000 13:57:42 +0000 Received: from 206.167.109.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 May 2000 06:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 06:57:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Labrecque Subject: FFTW library performance on the LART To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000504135742.71180.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [206.167.109.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hey guys, I think the subject is self-explanatory :) Do any of you ever tested the FFTW (fftw.org) library with an ARM processor? How good it performs on it? Thanks. Simon ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 17:25:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05971 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:25:51 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05961; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:25:44 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000504135742.71180.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:14:14 +0200 To: Simon Labrecque From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: FFTW library performance on the LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 15:57 +0200 04-05-2000, Simon Labrecque wrote: >Hey guys, > > I think the subject is self-explanatory :) Do any of you ever tested the >FFTW (fftw.org) library with an ARM processor? How good it performs on it? >Thanks. FFTW is quite pointless on StrongARM, as it really wants an FPU. What do you want to do FFTs for; can't you work with fixed point ? JD "I'm baaaaaack" B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 17:25:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05968 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:25:50 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05963; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:25:46 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:18:39 +0200 To: David Poisson From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART Bus ? Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 06:45 +0200 02-05-2000, David Poisson wrote: >Everyone is talking about a lot of products that would be nice to have in >a LART (mp3, ethernet, KSB, GPS,...). I was thinking, shouldn't someone do >a bus for LART ? Even if it's an ISA bus, it would leave some room if >someone want's to do their own GPS card, sound card or whatever. IMNSHO that's overkill for an embedded platform like LART. That kind of expandability is bad because it calls for compromises in terms of size, cost and power consumption. Having said that, the SA-1100 offers a PCMCIA bus which is quite close to ISA. In other words: you've got the source; if you want a bus go for it. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 18:00:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06178 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:00:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06174 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:00:19 +0200 Received: from dotplanet.com ([209.144.132.197]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100369LSHHN@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:00:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LsustanoD2.SMSCORP.NET [209.211.240.254] by dotplanet.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE45B6A01BC; Thu, 04 May 2000 11:59:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 08:58:34 -0700 From: Leo Johan Susanto Subject: Re: CDROM To: Derek Lassen , jamilkhatib75@yahoo.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <005c01bfb5e1$9abb52e0$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <4.2.0.58.20000504022939.00bc9100@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk something about CD ROM, the mailing list miss? ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Lassen To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 2:33 AM Subject: re: CDROM > I am in southern California, USA. Zip code is 92551. > > I would be willing to reship, provided it doesn't cost me anything except time. > That might work out well, sort of a GPL Amway? (just kidding!) > > Can you do Pay Pal or eGold? Or something else? > > Thanks... > (s) Derek > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 18:03:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06201 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:03:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06196 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:03:00 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU1003BFLWYNZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:02:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA24092; Thu, 04 May 2000 11:59:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA18730; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:04:19 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:04:19 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: LART Bus ? In-reply-to: X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Could you fit a GPS or a sound card on a PCMCIA card ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 4 May 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 06:45 +0200 02-05-2000, David Poisson wrote: > >Everyone is talking about a lot of products that would be nice to have in > >a LART (mp3, ethernet, KSB, GPS,...). I was thinking, shouldn't someone do > >a bus for LART ? Even if it's an ISA bus, it would leave some room if > >someone want's to do their own GPS card, sound card or whatever. > > IMNSHO that's overkill for an embedded platform like LART. That kind of > expandability is bad because it calls for compromises in terms of size, > cost and power consumption. > > Having said that, the SA-1100 offers a PCMCIA bus which is quite close to > ISA. In other words: you've got the source; if you want a bus go for it. > > JDB. > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 18:35:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06340 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:35:38 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06336 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:35:37 +0200 Received: from dotplanet.com ([209.144.132.197]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU1004NDNFBLU@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:35:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LsustanoD2.SMSCORP.NET [209.211.240.254] by dotplanet.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A66A32020104; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:33:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:33:20 -0700 From: Leo Johan Susanto To: David Poisson Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <017701bfb5e6$7581a740$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0174_01BFB5AB.C8BE1A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0174_01BFB5AB.C8BE1A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David, u could check the PCMCIA sound card on ebay. they have couples of choices. and i dont know about the GPS PCMCIA yet. but i am a ebay browser. ill post you if i've seen one do you know how many PCMCIA card we could attached together? what is the limitation? leo ------=_NextPart_000_0174_01BFB5AB.C8BE1A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David, u could check the PCMCIA sound = card on=20 ebay.
they have couples of = choices.
 
and i dont know about the GPS PCMCIA=20 yet.
but i am a ebay browser. ill post you = if i've seen=20 one
 
do you know how many PCMCIA card we = could attached=20 together?
what is the limitation?
leo
------=_NextPart_000_0174_01BFB5AB.C8BE1A00-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 18:38:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06361 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:38:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06357 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:38:34 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU1005GENK6BQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:38:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA24148; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:35:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA18969; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:40:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:40:11 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: <017701bfb5e6$7581a740$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Leo Johan Susanto Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have no idea what the limitation of the PCMCIA bus is, never played with it. Anyone could answer that ? David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 4 May 2000, Leo Johan Susanto wrote: > David, u could check the PCMCIA sound card on ebay. > they have couples of choices. > > and i dont know about the GPS PCMCIA yet. > but i am a ebay browser. ill post you if i've seen one > > do you know how many PCMCIA card we could attached together? > what is the limitation? > leo > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 18:50:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06423 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:50:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06419 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:50:07 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU1006ETO3IJ5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 18:50:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA14190; Thu, 04 May 2000 12:39:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 12:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: LART Bus ? To: david@fish.ecks.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200005041639.MAA14190"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: wjIE6hCokBGt4xarjdz3/Q== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Could you fit a GPS or a sound card on a PCMCIA card ? Yup, and they're not that expensive either. ~$60 for a pcmcia sound card ~160 for a pcmcia-interface gps go to www.shopper.com and search for 'pcmcia sound' and 'pcmcia gps' Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 19:06:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06485 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:06:49 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06481 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:06:48 +0200 Received: from salisbury.labs.futuretv.com (salisbury.futuretv.com [194.216.164.17]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU10075EOV6C4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:06:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zebra.labs.futuretv.com ([192.168.32.2] ident=mail) by salisbury.labs.futuretv.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12nQ9E-0005Ap-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 04 May 2000 18:14:52 +0000 Received: from [192.168.33.3] (helo=fountain.labs.futuretv.com ident=mail) by zebra.labs.futuretv.com with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12nP4Z-0000Aq-00; Thu, 04 May 2000 18:05:59 +0100 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fountain.labs.futuretv.com ident=pb) by fountain.labs.futuretv.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12nP4Y-0004N5-00; Thu, 04 May 2000 18:05:58 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 18:05:58 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: Message from zhu qun ying "of Thu, 04 May 2000 16:42:56 +0800." <39113810.C4AA5C46@krdl.org.sg> To: zhu qun ying Cc: arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <39113810.C4AA5C46@krdl.org.sg> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In message <39113810.C4AA5C46@krdl.org.sg>, zhu qun ying writes: >The arm result is very strange. The behavior is realy unacceptable. >It should either return run time error or some software emulation should >return the correct result? No, your program is in error. You can't cast a pointer of arbitrary alignment to some other type and expect it to work. If you play these sorts of games you need to know the limitations of the machine. >The kernel-mode alignment trap handler suppose to be able to catch this >and return the correct result, Only for code inside the kernel. If your program is in user context the trap handler will have no effect. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 19:43:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06597 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:43:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06593 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:43:35 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (oe24.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.81]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU10092TQKL3Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:43:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 83303 invoked by uid 65534); Thu, 04 May 2000 17:43:23 +0000 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:47:52 -0400 From: Agarwal Subject: Re: FFTW library performance on the LART To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000504174323.83302.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > At 15:57 +0200 04-05-2000, Simon Labrecque wrote: > >Hey guys, > > > > I think the subject is self-explanatory :) Do any of you ever tested the > >FFTW (fftw.org) library with an ARM processor? How good it performs on it? > >Thanks. > > FFTW is quite pointless on StrongARM, as it really wants an FPU. What do > you want to do FFTs for; can't you work with fixed point ? I sure *can* :) I want to do some animated eye candy visuals based on the sound being played. I've already done such a thing for x86, but the code need a major cleanup, and if I'd compile it for the LART just like it is right now I'd certainly get like 2-3 fps :) What I'd really need is a good FFT library that works with fixed point. It would not need to be *very* accurate as it's not for calculating very scientific stuff... > JD "I'm baaaaaack" B. And we're all happy about it :) Simon -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 20:14:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06685 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:14:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06681 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:14:16 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU1009KWRZQ3Q@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:14:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id NAA26296; Thu, 04 May 2000 13:09:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:09:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39113810.C4AA5C46@krdl.org.sg> To: zhu qun ying Cc: arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <200005041809.NAA26296@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Qun Ying wrote: > While trying to figure out how StrongARM behave on cross boundary access, I > encounter the following error ( I have the kernel-mode alignment trap handler on > and off with the same result). For comparisom, I have the same program compile > at x86 platform. > > The arm result is very strange. The behavior is realy unacceptable. It should > either return run time error or some software emulation should return the > correct result? I am using kernel 2.3.99-pre6-rmk1-np1. The kernel-mode > alignment trap handler suppose to be able to catch this and return the correct > result, but it has no effect for this case. > > A kernel problem? A GCC problem? Any hints? This is just the way ARMs work. Consult the documentation of the LDR instruction on page 36 (paper) 40 (PDF) of http://www.arm.com/Documentation/UserMans/PDF/ARM7vC.pdf It has a pretty diagram on the next couple of pages. In short you aren't allowed to read misaligned words, but if you do it has some useful quirks that might be helpful for unscrambling data. -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 20:28:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06792 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:28:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06788 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:28:12 +0200 Received: from sand4.global.net.uk (sand4.global.net.uk [195.147.246.106]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100A8SSMYE6@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:28:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from p52s04a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.148.83] helo=rentbert) by sand4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12nQNV-0003DW-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 04 May 2000 19:29:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:28:17 +0100 From: Raphael Gray Subject: PCMCIA Bus To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <007a01bfb607$4840dd20$5808fea9@rentbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to use PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware you make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA Bus in mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big PCMCIA GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA Bus. Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their are OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two IIRC. I hope this clears things up abit=) Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in most cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first concern. IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA Device...but again i could be wrong. -Raphael -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 20:55:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06848 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:55:34 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06844 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:55:34 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100C4FTWK1X@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 20:55:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA24401; Thu, 04 May 2000 14:54:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA19178; Thu, 04 May 2000 14:58:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 18:58:37 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus In-reply-to: <007a01bfb607$4840dd20$5808fea9@rentbert> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Raphael Gray Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk But having a PCMCIA slot would allow anyone to use any PCMCIA devices, which is pretty neat. I guess it all depends what you wanna do with your LART though. David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 4 May 2000, Raphael Gray wrote: > Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to use > PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware you > make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA Bus in > mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big PCMCIA > GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the > PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this > will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA Bus. > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their are > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two IIRC. > > I hope this clears things up abit=) > > Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in most > cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. > Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first concern. > > IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA Device...but > again i could be wrong. > > -Raphael > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 22:31:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA07111 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:31:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07107 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:31:42 +0200 Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU100FCWYCU6B@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:31:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [195.8.76.145] (helo=clara.co.uk) by oracle.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12nSGQ-0000UD-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 04 May 2000 21:30:26 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:31:37 +0100 From: Andrew Ebling Subject: hand soldering LARTs To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3911DE29.3861D40A@clara.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I note that Greg Fountain is now selling LART PCBs and was thinking about getting one to use in my final year university project. (I'm studying electronic engineering) Has anyone had any success hand soldering a LART together? I'd also be interested to know how long it takes people (in terms of hours on the job) to get from starting out with a bare PCB to a fully working and tested LART. I think LART is a supperb project, keep up the good work! BR, Andrew -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 4 23:16:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07212 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 23:16:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07208 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 23:16:35 +0200 Received: from ramone.wwonline.com (ramone.wwonline.com [209.82.60.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200GDM0FMOZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 4 May 2000 23:16:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from wwonline.com (dave@wrench.wwonline.com [209.82.62.59]) by ramone.wwonline.com (8.8.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id RAA25444 for ; Thu, 04 May 2000 17:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 17:09:56 -0400 From: David Emmerson Subject: Re: LART hardware distribution version 0.95 (March 20, 2000) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3911E724.3519A6EF@wwonline.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm thinking about building an internet appliance, and LART looks like a great way to go. I've taken a look at the site and the mailing list archives, and it seems like there's a quad ethernet board for the KSB in the works, but I was unable to find the schematics for it. Are they available? Will they be in the (near) future? I'm actually only looking for two ethernet ports - am I correct in my assumption that it's a simple matter of only assembling the quad board with two chips, leaving the other two open? Thanks for the great work! Dave -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 00:20:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07418 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 00:20:37 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07414 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 00:20:36 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200J6H3EBB4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 00:20:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12nTwb-0004cT-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 04 May 2000 23:18:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 23:18:55 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: hand soldering LARTs To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <3911F74F.F8DE60C5@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3911DE29.3861D40A@clara.co.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Andrew Ebling wrote: > > Hi all, > > I note that Greg Fountain is now selling LART PCBs and was thinking > about getting one to use in my final year university project. (I'm > studying electronic engineering) Yup- I've ordered a bunch. I could sell up to a couple in the UK- no profit, just 1/5 of the number that appears on my credit card bill + a stamp- save someone the postage. > Has anyone had any success hand soldering a LART together? I don't see any problems. I've soldered much more complex - I reckon that, including all the passives, which are what take the time, it'll be about 6 hours. Unless one of the other guys completes an LPT jtag burner, I may have to dig out my fpga-based one and rig it to use the flash used on Lart- shouldn't be too much work. > I think LART is a supperb project, keep up the good work! Oh yes. I've been looking at the rest of the project going on there- it all looks rather good, & LART's just a small part. Most impressive. Bah. SDRAM. Pain in the arse. Steve. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 01:52:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07784 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 01:52:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07780 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 01:52:57 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200KM17O7QX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 01:52:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.43.186]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FU2004EH7CPFD@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 04 May 2000 19:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 20:00:08 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus In-reply-to: <007a01bfb607$4840dd20$5808fea9@rentbert> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00050420055400.21481@modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <007a01bfb607$4840dd20$5808fea9@rentbert> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Maybe I missed a bit, but why do you want to stick with the PCMCIA bus for a GPS card, just buy a oem card with output on a serial port. It's quick and dirty and cheaper. You can even watch the output on minicom. There are two uarts on the SA1100, I guess one is for debugging, the other might be used as the listening port for the GPS card... Jean > Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to use > PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware you > make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA Bus in > mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big PCMCIA > GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the > PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this > will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA Bus. > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their are > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two IIRC. > > I hope this clears things up abit=) > > Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in most > cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. > Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first concern. > > IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA Device...but > again i could be wrong. > > -Raphael > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 02:22:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07843 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 02:22:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07838 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 02:22:28 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200M5J91DGM@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 02:22:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05020; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:24:46 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01941; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:16:11 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 08:17:04 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Jim Studt Cc: arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <39121300.90E714EC@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005041809.NAA26296@core.federated.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I know the limit of ARM, and I know that I can't cast arbitrary alignment to some other type. I want to know why the kernel allow this operation instead of issuing run time error, like illeagl operation/access, or emulating the behaviour using software. I used to port some program over to WINCE, and that is a horrible experience, that kind of operation causes runtime error. Any advantage that allow this kind of operation? -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 03:11:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA07939 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 03:11:47 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA07935 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 03:11:46 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU20004NBBJAA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 03:11:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00382; Thu, 04 May 2000 21:10:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39121300.90E714EC@krdl.org.sg> X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: zhu qun ying Cc: Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 May 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > I know the limit of ARM, and I know that I can't cast arbitrary alignment to > some other type. I want to know why the kernel allow this operation instead of > issuing run time error, like illeagl operation/access, or emulating the > behaviour using software. I used to port some program over to WINCE, and that is > a horrible experience, that kind of operation causes runtime error. Any > advantage that allow this kind of operation? If you look at linux/arch/arm/mm/fault-armv.c, line 134, you'll see the do_alignment() function. Few lines further you'll see: if (user_mode(regs)) { set_cr(cr_no_alignment); ai_user += 1; return 0; } This disables the alignment trap for user space code. See the documentation for the expected results... If you want the alignment trap handler to work on user space code as well as kernel code, just modify the above so it looks like: if (user_mode(regs)) { ai_user += 1; } Alternately, if you want to fix broken user space programs and kill them whenever a misaligned access occur, just use: if (user_mode(regs)) { ai_user += 1; return 1; } The above is based on linux-2.3.99-pre6-rmk1. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 09:47:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08784 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:47:52 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08779; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:47:48 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000504174323.83302.qmail@hotmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:44:30 +0200 To: Agarwal From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: FFTW library performance on the LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:47 +0200 04-05-2000, Agarwal wrote: > What I'd really need is a good >FFT library that works with fixed point. It would not need to be *very* >accurate as it's not for calculating very scientific stuff... I've written some FFT code in ARM assembly tuned for the SA-1 core. I intend to clean it up, slap a [L]GPL on it and post it on the website. Just wait a week or so and start yelling if nothing has happened by then ;-) JDB [imagining himself as a mother bird feeding a nest full of screaming chicks, representing my Things To Do-list] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 09:52:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08800 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:52:29 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08796 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:52:28 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p45-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.45]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200769TVDGS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:52:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31436; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:34:59 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24826; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:28:42 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 08:28:41 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39121300.90E714EC@krdl.org.sg> To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying) Cc: jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005050728.IAA24826@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk zhu qun ying writes: > I know the limit of ARM, and I know that I can't cast arbitrary alignment to > some other type. I want to know why the kernel allow this operation instead of > issuing run time error, like illeagl operation/access, or emulating the > behaviour using software. I used to port some program over to WINCE, and that is > a horrible experience, that kind of operation causes runtime error. Any > advantage that allow this kind of operation? For the past 13 years that the ARM architecture has been around, the behaviour of unaligned loads is something that was 100% defined to happen, and that the compiler can rely on to optimise its code. If you start causing user-mode runtime errors for these cases, then you will effectively prevent any program which has not been compiled with the appropriate flags to fail in perhaps undetectable ways (eg, if you compile up a program with a compiler that does not generate half-word instructions). There are a fair number of machines out there that use the StrongARM, but are not able to use the half-word instructions, or don't use the StrongARM at all that would be adversely affected by this. Basically to maintain consistent behaviour across all current machines, we ignore user-mode unaligned accesses. It's just not worth the hastle. Make sure your programs follow the appropriate C standards, and you won't have a problem. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 09:53:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08806 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:53:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08802 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:53:01 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p45-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.45]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU200774TWAGS@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:53:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31450; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:37:11 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24847; Fri, 05 May 2000 08:30:53 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 08:30:53 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: To: nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre) Cc: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005050730.IAA24847@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nicolas Pitre writes: > If you want the alignment trap handler to work on user space code as well > as kernel code, just modify the above so it looks like: > > if (user_mode(regs)) { > ai_user += 1; > } Either case is not good. (see previous mails). It's best left as-is and the program must follow the C alignment rules to have expected behaviour. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 10:05:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08918 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 10:05:18 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08913; Fri, 5 May 2000 10:05:08 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3911E724.3519A6EF@wwonline.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:55:00 +0200 To: David Emmerson From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART hardware distribution version 0.95 (March 20, 2000) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 23:09 +0200 04-05-2000, David Emmerson wrote: >I've taken a look at the site and the mailing list archives, and it >seems like there's a quad ethernet board for the KSB in the works, but I >was unable to find the schematics for it. Are they available? Will >they be in the (near) future? They will be once I get near my work computer and find a free hour or so to fight with Adobe Distiller and Acrobat Exchange. To get an idea what it looks like, take page two of http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/ethernet/ether1_rev1.pdf and repeat it three times (changing nSEL0 to nSEL[123] and INT0 to INT[123], obviously). >I'm actually only looking for two ethernet ports - am I correct in my >assumption that it's a simple matter of only assembling the quad board >with two chips, leaving the other two open? Yes. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 11:49:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09101 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:49:27 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09097 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:49:26 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f148.hotmail.com [209.185.131.211]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU200AOCZAD2T@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:49:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 73468 invoked by uid 0); Fri, 05 May 2000 09:49:15 +0000 Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 May 2000 02:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 02:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: chaman bagga Subject: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000505094915.73467.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm looking for interfacing a PS/2 keyboard and avoid the USB interfaces of LART in KSB, i.e. connect it to a serial port? Someone had said that it can be done, but how? directly or some external keyboard controller is required? Regards, chaman. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 12:08:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09167 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:08:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09163 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:08:02 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300BDL059H2@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:08:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E6374954; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:07:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:07:29 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <200005050728.IAA24826@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > There are a fair number of machines out there that use the StrongARM, but > are not able to use the half-word instructions, or don't use the StrongARM > at all that would be adversely affected by this. The only ones I know of are the Medusa architecture machines; is it really worth worrying about them? They're obsolete and becoming increasingly rare. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 12:12:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09196 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:12:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09192 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:12:32 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300AQD0CRZF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:12:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA03202; Fri, 05 May 2000 20:06:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 20:06:02 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <39129D0A.7769C59C@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005050730.IAA24847@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > Nicolas Pitre writes: > > If you want the alignment trap handler to work on user space code as well > > as kernel code, just modify the above so it looks like: > > > > if (user_mode(regs)) { > > ai_user += 1; > > } > > Either case is not good. (see previous mails). It's best left as-is and > the program must follow the C alignment rules to have expected behaviour. While I agree with your "if it hurts don't do it" policy, life is all too often about porting existing old code rather than writing new code, and old code from x86 and 68K worlds has definitely been known to be sloppy in this area. It seems there are two classes of programs, those that have been optimised by the ARM compiler to take advantage of this well defined behaviour and don't want exceptions or fixups, and those sloppy programs being ported from other platforms that expect more "traditional" behaviour, and desperately need exceptions or fixups. I would imagine debugging the latter on an ARM/Linux platform that produces no exception would be very unpleasant. How feasible would it be to make this run-time configurable, on a per-process basis (perhaps by use of the /proc filesystem) ? dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 13:40:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09413 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 13:40:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09409 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 13:40:45 +0200 Received: from mrq1.static.cx (N698P014.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.97.46]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU300EG74FQ3F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 13:40:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 19826 invoked from network); Fri, 05 May 2000 11:40:23 +0000 Received: from loopback (HELO gmx.net) (127.0.0.1) by loopback with SMTP; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:40:23 +0000 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:40:23 +0200 From: "Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer" Subject: Re: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. To: chaman bagga Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <3912B327.6ADB13F0@gmx.net> Organization: dual p iii 500 ga-6bxd user MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <20000505094915.73467.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Hi, > I'm looking for interfacing a PS/2 keyboard and avoid the USB > interfaces of LART in KSB, i.e. connect it to a serial port? Someone had > said that it can be done, but how? directly or some external keyboard > controller is required? hello i think no external device is required look at http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm for the ps/2 protocol. there is a link to http://www.ezl.com/~rsch/projects.htm this is a project with a pc-keyboard on a embedded controller ps/2 and old din-keyboards use the sam protocol :-) mfg mrq1 -- linux 2.2.14 on a dual pentium iii 500 384mb 1:30pm up 2 days, 23:40, 1 user, load average: 2.07, 2.03, 1.93 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 15:53:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09721 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:53:54 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09716 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:53:53 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300IIAALR10@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:53:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 09:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <200005050730.IAA24847@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > Nicolas Pitre writes: > > If you want the alignment trap handler to work on user space code as well > > as kernel code, just modify the above so it looks like: > > > > if (user_mode(regs)) { > > ai_user += 1; > > } > > Either case is not good. (see previous mails). It's best left as-is and > the program must follow the C alignment rules to have expected behaviour. The idea is to debug misbehaving code. Generating a SIGBUS is really nice to quickly spot where are the alignment abuses. This is not intended for mainstream kernels. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 16:01:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09757 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:01:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09753 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:01:52 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300I43AZ3ZZ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:01:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12nidV-0005yc-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 05 May 2000 14:59:21 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:00:11 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <3912D3EB.4DCA1B50@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Kira Brown wrote: > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > There are a fair number of machines out there that use the StrongARM, but > are not able to use the half-word instructions, ->or don't use the StrongARM at all <- (My emphasis) > that would be adversely affected by this. > The only ones I know of are the Medusa architecture machines; is it really > worth worrying about them? They're obsolete and becoming increasingly > rare. A brave statement. There _are_ machines other than Acorn boxes, you know... Steve (For instance, a LARTlet using one of the other PDA-style ARM implementations- lower cost, power and performance, but still useful. ) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 16:30:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09870 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:30:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09866 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:29:59 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p31-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.31]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300K0GC9W05@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:29:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (root@raistlin [192.168.0.3]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00777; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:10:48 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA00877; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:10:11 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:10:10 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: To: kira@linuxgrrls.org (Kira Brown) Cc: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005051210.NAA00877@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Kira Brown writes: > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > There are a fair number of machines out there that use the StrongARM, but > > are not able to use the half-word instructions, or don't use the StrongARM > > at all that would be adversely affected by this. > > The only ones I know of are the Medusa architecture machines; is it really > worth worrying about them? They're obsolete and becoming increasingly > rare. Try any ARM based machine which does not support V4 architecture - ie, ARM6 cores and some, if not most ARM7 cores. It's far wider than just Medusa. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 16:31:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09887 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:31:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09883 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:31:01 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p31-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.31]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300K2VCBN05@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:31:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (root@raistlin [192.168.0.3]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00811; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:25:41 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA00916; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:25:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:25:03 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39129D0A.7769C59C@onthenet.com.au> To: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath) Cc: nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005051225.NAA00916@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk David Bath writes: > While I agree with your "if it hurts don't do it" policy, life is all too > often about porting existing old code rather than writing new code, and old > code from x86 and 68K worlds has definitely been known to be sloppy in this > area. I wasn't talking about an "if it hurts". It doesn't hurt - it breaks. > It seems there are two classes of programs, those that have been optimised by > the ARM compiler to take advantage of this well defined behaviour and don't > want exceptions or fixups, and those sloppy programs being ported from other > platforms that expect more "traditional" behaviour, and desperately need > exceptions or fixups. I would imagine debugging the latter on an ARM/Linux > platform that produces no exception would be very unpleasant. This is an old topic of discussion - please read the mailing list archives for the results of the previous discussions. The problem here is: 1. without the user-mode exception handler Sloppily written programs aren't flagged with an obvious warning message. Correctly written, binary compatible programs across the whole range of ARM processors will run as expected. 2. with the user-mode exception handler Sloppily written programs are flagged with a warning message. Correctly written, binary compatible programs will fail, maybe in unpredicatable ways. Ok, so you choose option 2, and suddenly your currently running processes die. That is extremely unpleasant. So, you make it per-process selectable. So long as you get the right compiler options, all well and good - you enable the user-mode alignment trap. But if you get the options wrong? You either end up with either case (1) or (2) for that particular program. Most packages are built using a standard set of options, and therefore these problems may not be detected. It depends really on the setup of the binutils, and whether binutils can be teached to "do the right thing" automagically. Really, it can't do because you've got this thing called the C library which will be an unknown quantity. No, there are just too many variables here - binutils, glibc, compiler options, hardware platform. All have to be exactly right, or else all hell can break loose. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 16:40:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09930 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:40:00 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09926 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:39:59 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p31-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.31]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300JDPCQLH1@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:39:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (root@raistlin [192.168.0.3]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01327; Fri, 05 May 2000 15:39:43 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id PAA01310; Fri, 05 May 2000 15:39:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:39:06 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: To: nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre) Cc: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005051439.PAA01310@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nicolas Pitre writes: > The idea is to debug misbehaving code. Generating a SIGBUS is really nice > to quickly spot where are the alignment abuses. This is not intended for > mainstream kernels. In that case, what about hiding it under the kernel hacking options, so that it can only be enabled when EXPERIMENTAL is also turned on? Of course, it will have to display a message so when people complain that they're having problems its obvious why... _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 17:25:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10086 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:25:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10082 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:25:47 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300L7TEUTF0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:25:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D003674956; Fri, 05 May 2000 16:25:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 16:25:14 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <3912D3EB.4DCA1B50@steves-house.org.uk> To: Steve Wiseman Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 May 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote: > Kira Brown wrote: > > > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > > > There are a fair number of machines out there that use the StrongARM, but > > are not able to use the half-word instructions, > ->or don't use the StrongARM at all <- (My emphasis) Yes, but we were talking about StrongARM. > > that would be adversely affected by this. > > > The only ones I know of are the Medusa architecture machines; is it really > > worth worrying about them? They're obsolete and becoming increasingly > > rare. > > A brave statement. There _are_ machines other than Acorn boxes, you > know... I know; I own a dozen of them. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 17:26:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10100 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:26:58 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10096 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:26:58 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org ([62.6.164.226]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300KP9EWXRA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:26:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B936874954; Fri, 05 May 2000 16:26:15 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 16:26:15 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <200005051210.NAA00877@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 May 2000, Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > The only ones I know of are the Medusa architecture machines; is it really > > worth worrying about them? They're obsolete and becoming increasingly > > rare. > > Try any ARM based machine which does not support V4 architecture - ie, ARM6 > cores and some, if not most ARM7 cores. It's far wider than just Medusa. Yes, I know, but we were talking about StrongARM. The ability to compile kernels specific to your processor is one of the advantages of Linux... can't we have this as an optional feature in StrongARM kernels? kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 17:31:02 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10135 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:31:02 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10131 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:31:01 +0200 Received: from kei.netwinder.org (netwinder.org [207.245.35.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300LDJF3OF0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:31:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from netwinder.org ([10.1.19.121]) by kei.netwinder.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20728; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:29:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:24:41 -0400 From: Scott Bambrough Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <3912E7B9.F5A4FFD0@netwinder.org> Organization: Rebel.com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005051439.PAA01310@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > Nicolas Pitre writes: > > The idea is to debug misbehaving code. Generating a SIGBUS is really nice > > to quickly spot where are the alignment abuses. This is not intended for > > mainstream kernels. > > In that case, what about hiding it under the kernel hacking options, so that > it can only be enabled when EXPERIMENTAL is also turned on? Of course, it > will have to display a message so when people complain that they're having > problems its obvious why... I like this idea myself. Scott -- Scott Bambrough - Software Engineer REBEL.COM http://www.rebel.com NetWinder http://www.netwinder.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 17:41:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10176 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:41:39 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10172 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:41:39 +0200 Received: from crl.dec.com (crl.dec.com [192.58.206.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300LIQFLDF0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:41:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ims.crl.dec.com (ims.crl.dec.com [16.11.0.11]) by crl.dec.com (8.8.8/RWD-1.2) with ESMTP id LAA09080; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ims.crl.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:43:12 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:39:26 -0400 From: George France Subject: RE: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: "'Scott Bambrough'" , Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello Scott; Even though I like the idea, at this time the ARM linux is mostly used by researchers and other highly technical people. I think that in the future, this will not be true. Do we really want to give the less experenced users, the means to shoot themselves?? --George George France, france@crl.dec.com Cambridge Research Laboratory, Compaq Computer Corporation One Kendall Square, Building 700 MS: CRL Cambridge, MA 02139 USA -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bambrough [mailto:scottb@netwinder.org] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 11:25 AM To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre; zhu qun ying; Jim Studt; arm; sa1100; lart; Philip Blundell Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > > Nicolas Pitre writes: > > The idea is to debug misbehaving code. Generating a SIGBUS is really nice > > to quickly spot where are the alignment abuses. This is not intended for > > mainstream kernels. > > In that case, what about hiding it under the kernel hacking options, so that > it can only be enabled when EXPERIMENTAL is also turned on? Of course, it > will have to display a message so when people complain that they're having > problems its obvious why... I like this idea myself. Scott -- Scott Bambrough - Software Engineer REBEL.COM http://www.rebel.com NetWinder http://www.netwinder.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 17:51:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10241 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:51:57 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10237 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:51:55 +0200 Received: from kei.netwinder.org (netwinder.org [207.245.35.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300M61G2I6F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:51:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from netwinder.org ([10.1.19.121]) by kei.netwinder.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20896; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:50:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:45:31 -0400 From: Scott Bambrough Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: George France Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <3912EC9B.DB66987B@netwinder.org> Organization: Rebel.com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk George France wrote: > Even though I like the idea, at this time the ARM linux is mostly used by > researchers and other highly technical people. I think that in the future, > this will not be true. Do we really want to give the less experenced users, > the means to shoot themselves?? > > > it can only be enabled when EXPERIMENTAL is also turned on? Of course, it > > will have to display a message so when people complain that they're having > > problems its obvious why... If a inexperienced user is going to play with the kernel, and use experimental features, they deserve what they get. We only provide the gun, we don't make them use it. I think if it is documented correctly, it should be ok. Scott -- Scott Bambrough - Software Engineer REBEL.COM http://www.rebel.com NetWinder http://www.netwinder.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 18:04:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10309 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:04:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10305 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:04:30 +0200 Received: from micros.micros.com (micros.micros.com [63.75.30.3]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300M9JGNG6F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:04:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from usmail.micros.com (usmail.micros.com [172.28.196.60]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with ESMTP id LAA04229; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SATCH2 ([206.241.199.116]) by usmail.micros.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id KJMXB9H2; Fri, 05 May 2000 11:54:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:58:03 -0400 From: brad more Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: George France , "'Scott Bambrough'" , Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <003601bfb6aa$b73877d0$74c7f1ce@ft.micros.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Do we really want to give the less experenced users, the means to shoot themselves?? Speaking for the "less experienced" users ... Yes. We'd prefer you didn't attempt to "protect" us. By the way, some of us are actaully "highly technical" too... r/Brad -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 18:10:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10341 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:10:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10337 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:10:47 +0200 Received: from crl.dec.com (crl.dec.com [192.58.206.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU300M0BGXYYH@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:10:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ims.crl.dec.com (ims.crl.dec.com [16.11.0.11]) by crl.dec.com (8.8.8/RWD-1.2) with ESMTP id MAA06428; Fri, 05 May 2000 12:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ims.crl.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 05 May 2000 12:12:16 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:08:26 -0400 From: George France Subject: RE: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: "'Scott Bambrough'" , George France Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Scott Bambrough [mailto:scottb@netwinder.org] writes: >If a inexperienced user is going to play with the kernel, and use experimental >features, they deserve what they get. We only provide the gun, we don't make >them use it. I think if it is documented correctly, it should be ok. If our tone and attitude is going to be 'caveat emptor' then I agree with you fully. I was more thinking about the mailing list and the extra traffic that will be generated from people using the gun. It is not only the user that will suffer from the gun, but developers on the mailing list having to answer the same questions over and over and over and over again. --George -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 18:18:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10382 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:18:06 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10378 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:18:04 +0200 From: ebunce@lhsl.com Received: from lhs.com (lnsmtpbos00.lhs.com [208.162.98.43]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU300M21HA1Z4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:18:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by lhs.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 852568D6.005A174B ; Fri, 05 May 2000 12:24:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:15:06 -0400 Subject: RE: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: George France Cc: "'Scott Bambrough'" , George France , Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <852568D6.005A1543.00@lhs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: LHS Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Scott Bambrough [mailto:scottb@netwinder.org] writes: > >>If a inexperienced user is going to play with the kernel, and use experimental >>features, they deserve what they get. We only provide the gun, we don't make >>them use it. I think if it is documented correctly, it should be ok. > >If our tone and attitude is going to be 'caveat emptor' then I agree with >you fully. I was more thinking about the mailing list and the extra traffic >that will be generated from people using the gun. It is not only the user >that will suffer from the gun, but developers on the mailing list having to >answer the same questions over and over and over and over again. The same could be said about a good half the experimental features. The one addition I'd make is -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 18:42:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10441 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:42:20 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10437 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:42:19 +0200 From: ebunce@lhsl.com Received: from lhs.com (lnsmtpbos00.lhs.com [208.162.98.43]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU300MIXIEGZ4@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:42:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by lhs.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 852568D6.005C5244 ; Fri, 05 May 2000 12:48:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:39:31 -0400 Subject: RE: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: George France Cc: "'Scott Bambrough'" , George France , Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <852568D6.005C5104.00@lhs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: LHS Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk George France wrote: > Scott Bambrough [mailto:scottb@netwinder.org] writes: > >>If a inexperienced user is going to play with the kernel, and use experimental >>features, they deserve what they get. We only provide the gun, we don't make >>them use it. I think if it is documented correctly, it should be ok. > >If our tone and attitude is going to be 'caveat emptor' then I agree with >you fully. I was more thinking about the mailing list and the extra traffic >that will be generated from people using the gun. It is not only the user >that will suffer from the gun, but developers on the mailing list having to >answer the same questions over and over and over and over again. The same could be said about a good half the Experimental features. If such an the option was put into the kernel, I'd mark it as "(Testing Purposes Only)" and put it under either the "Kernel Hacking" section or something similar. I'd also place the appropriate description explaining it's use in the documentation used by the configuration software. It would be easier than having to explain to moderately experienced users how to modify the kernel source in order to perform that type of testing. If it's clearly marked, than it's not even a matter of 'caveat emptor', it's more on the order of "you've been warned". If someone chooses that option after being warned they deserve what they get. Erik Bunce -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 18:58:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10504 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:58:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10500 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:58:04 +0200 Received: from kei.netwinder.org (netwinder.org [207.245.35.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU30003GJ4RYA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 18:58:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from netwinder.org ([10.1.19.121]) by kei.netwinder.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21392; Fri, 05 May 2000 12:56:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:51:59 -0400 From: Scott Bambrough Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: George France Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <3912FC2F.168CD3F4@netwinder.org> Organization: Rebel.com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk George France wrote: > > If our tone and attitude is going to be 'caveat emptor' then I agree with > you fully. I was more thinking about the mailing list and the extra traffic > that will be generated from people using the gun. It is not only the user > that will suffer from the gun, but developers on the mailing list having to > answer the same questions over and over and over and over again. Don't get me wrong here. I don't think our tone and attitude should be "caveat emptor", but if it is under experimental that is implied (at least that is the way I look at it). If it wasn't under experimental I would adopt an attitude very similar to yours. Scott -- Scott Bambrough - Software Engineer REBEL.COM http://www.rebel.com NetWinder http://www.netwinder.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 19:04:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10534 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:04:05 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10530 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:04:04 +0200 Received: from kei.netwinder.org (netwinder.org [207.245.35.202]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU3000AUJEQM8@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:04:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from netwinder.org ([10.1.19.121]) by kei.netwinder.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21497; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:03:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:58:15 -0400 From: Scott Bambrough Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: ebunce@lhsl.com Cc: George France , Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <3912FDA7.46B621EF@netwinder.org> Organization: Rebel.com MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <852568D6.005C5104.00@lhs.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk ebunce@lhsl.com wrote: > > If such an the option was put into the kernel, I'd mark it as > "(Testing Purposes Only)" and put it under either the > "Kernel Hacking" section or something similar. I'd also place the appropriate > description explaining it's use in the documentation used by the configuration > software. Err, I was operating under the assumption that it would be added to the 'Kernel Hacking' menu. I don't advocate putting it anywhere else. Sorry if that was what everyone thought. Scott -- Scott Bambrough - Software Engineer REBEL.COM http://www.rebel.com NetWinder http://www.netwinder.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 19:06:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10562 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:06:23 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10558 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:06:22 +0200 Received: from crl.dec.com (crl.dec.com [192.58.206.2]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU30007PJILYA@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 19:06:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from crlwebmail.crl.dec.com (crlwebmail.crl.dec.com [16.11.0.2]) by crl.dec.com (8.8.8/RWD-1.2) with ESMTP id NAA10483; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by crlwebmail.crl.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 05 May 2000 13:07:56 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:04:16 -0400 From: George France Subject: RE: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: "'Scott Bambrough'" , George France Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Scott Bambrough [mailto:scottb@netwinder.org] wrote: >Don't get me wrong here. I don't think our tone and attitude should be "caveat >emptor", but if it is under experimental that is implied (at least that is the >way I look at it). If it wasn't under experimental I would adopt an attitude >very similar to yours. Hello Scott; I do not mind experimental code, in odd numbered kernels, in fact I encourage it. I am just questioning adding experimental stuff that will end up in 2.4.0. I would full support almost any experimental code into 2.5.0. In this way the main stream users on the stable version do not have the gun, beta users on the other hand can take their chances. The added benefit is that the developers on the mailing list only have to answer questions from the beta users, not the public at large. I am sorry if I was not more clear before. --George George France, france@crl.dec.com Cambridge Research Laboratory, Compaq Computer Corporation One Kendall Square, Building 700 MS: CRL Cambridge, MA 02139 USA -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 21:34:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA10924 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:34:46 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA10910 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:34:45 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (oe19.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.123]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU3003KPQDVXB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:34:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 80838 invoked by uid 65534); Fri, 05 May 2000 19:34:32 +0000 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:38:50 -0400 From: Agarwal Subject: Re: FFTW library performance on the LART To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000505193432.80837.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Originating-IP: [24.200.14.94] References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > I've written some FFT code in ARM assembly tuned for the SA-1 core. I > intend to clean it up, slap a [L]GPL on it and post it on the website. Just > wait a week or so and start yelling if nothing has happened by then ;-) > > JDB > [imagining himself as a mother bird feeding a nest full of screaming > chicks, representing my Things To Do-list] > Wow, you go beyond my dreams! :) Thanks a lot! Please notify me (or us) when this will be done... Simon -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 21:53:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA10971 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:53:31 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA10967 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:53:30 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU30047ER8RUW@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 21:53:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA20257; Fri, 05 May 2000 15:42:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:42:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Subject: power question To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: Barry Callahan Message-id: <"200005051942.PAA20257"@rjlsystems.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: Jxbb/3/4l3IprHRM85drkw== Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have a question for you hardware types... The lart in the picture on the website was shown to draw 42 mA (plus 220 mA for the lcd) at 9V, which means a power dissipation of 9*.042=.38W. If I were to say, take the battery out of this Sony laptop here (rated 2600mAh @ 14.8V) and attach it to a lart, the power dissipation should remain constant, right? So I should see a current draw of .38/14.8=30mA. Which means I ought to be able to power the lart (and nothing else) off this battery for 86.67 hours, right? Out of curiosity, what voltage(s) does the lart use internally? I know I could figure it out from looking at the schematics and BOM, but I'm supposed to be getting some productive work done right now, and it's much easier just to ask somebody. :) Here's a nice low-power consumption system: IDE laptop hard disk (5V @ .52A) = 2.6W lcd (9V @ 220mA) = 1.98W lart 0.38W KSB ???? 0.5 W (guess) This thing ought to run for about 6 hours on that Sony battery. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 22:48:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11094 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:48:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11090 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:48:42 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU3005FXTSONQ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:48:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from nmahncke ([172.16.26.55]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA00438; Fri, 05 May 2000 22:44:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 22:45:03 +0200 From: Nicolai Mahncke Subject: RE: power question In-reply-to: <"200005051942.PAA20257"@rjlsystems.com> To: "'Barry Callahan'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000001bfb6d2$cb76a140$371a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of Barry Callahan > Sent: 05 May, 2000 21:42 > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: power question > > > I have a question for you hardware types... > > The lart in the picture on the website was shown to draw 42 > mA (plus 220 mA for > the lcd) at 9V, which means a power dissipation of 9*.042=.38W. > > If I were to say, take the battery out of this Sony laptop > here (rated 2600mAh @ > 14.8V) and attach it to a lart, the power dissipation should > remain constant, > right? So I should see a current draw of .38/14.8=30mA. > Which means I ought to > be able to power the lart (and nothing else) off this battery > for 86.67 hours, > right? Almost right. The efficiency of the internal switch mode regulator varies with input voltage. But it will be close enough. > > Out of curiosity, what voltage(s) does the lart use > internally? I know I could > figure it out from looking at the schematics and BOM, but I'm > supposed to be > getting some productive work done right now, and it's much > easier just to ask > somebody. :) It uses 3.3V for LART mainboard logic and 2.0V or 1.5V for the core. The KSB also uses 3.3V and generates an additional 5V for audio, IDE and parts of the Ethernet logic. > > > Here's a nice low-power consumption system: > IDE laptop hard disk (5V @ .52A) = 2.6W > lcd (9V @ 220mA) = 1.98W > lart 0.38W > KSB ???? 0.5 W (guess) > > This thing ought to run for about 6 hours on that Sony battery. In theory, yes. In practice it will vary due to all sorts of factors (battery voltage drop, inefficient conversion, time in idle mode, battery capacity at 0.15C discharge rate, direction of wind, amount of sugar in coffee, whether you need it or not etc.). You should be able to reach 6 hours without problems. Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 5 23:02:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11133 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 5 May 2000 23:02:39 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11129 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 23:02:38 +0200 Received: from dotplanet.com ([209.144.132.195]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FU300EKPUGDG7@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 5 May 2000 23:02:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LsustanoD2.SMSCORP.NET [209.211.240.254] by dotplanet.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A6A022DF00EC; Fri, 05 May 2000 17:01:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:01:48 -0700 From: Leo Johan Susanto Subject: FPU To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <00ae01bfb6d5$20e79380$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AB_01BFB69A.7434CF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01BFB69A.7434CF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anybody tried to add a FPU co-processor like Weitek to the LART? Is it worth the effort ? Leo ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01BFB69A.7434CF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anybody tried to add a FPU = co-processor like=20 Weitek to the LART?
Is it worth the effort ?
 
Leo
------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01BFB69A.7434CF20-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 00:04:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11309 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:04:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11305 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:04:00 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU3007LCXAK31@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:03:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA19780; Sat, 06 May 2000 07:58:36 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 07:58:18 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <391343FA.3A7B3D49@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005051439.PAA01310@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > Nicolas Pitre writes: > > The idea is to debug misbehaving code. Generating a SIGBUS is really nice > > to quickly spot where are the alignment abuses. This is not intended for > > mainstream kernels. > > In that case, what about hiding it under the kernel hacking options, so that > it can only be enabled when EXPERIMENTAL is also turned on? Of course, it > will have to display a message so when people complain that they're having > problems its obvious why... So, if we now all accept that there is a time when experienced users (namely those attempting to port poorly written x86 Linux apps to ARM) will want to turn user level exceptions on, it seems only a small step (conceptually, if not technically) to allow them to turn it on at runtime. It seems a bit excessive making them rebuild their kernel just so they can debug some poorly written user level code, and then reboot their original kernel so they can continue to run their correctly written ARM code. There's plenty of precedence with Linux for controlling experimental /diagnostic stuff at runtime. For example... echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syncookies if I want SYN cookie protection echo "scsi log token [level]" > /proc/scsi/scsi if I want scsi logging enabled echo "0 0 0 y y y - y - 10 " >/proc/scsi/tmscsim/0 if I want to try out tagged queuing on a scsi device If I've just copied a source tar file down from somewhere, typed "make", had a clean build, and then had it crash or behave very strangely, it would be very useful to be able to do something like... echo "usr-fixup" /proc/..... [to enable user level fixups] run it again, and see if it works. If it does work, I could then do a echo "usr-sigbus" /proc/.... [to enable user level exceptions] run it again, and gather all the info I need to work out how to fix it from SIGBUS crash details. Fix it, rebuild, and then echo "usr-none" /proc/.... [to return to no user level intervention] run it again, notice it works, and declare victory. If you believe that ARM-Linux will only ever be used in a single-user environment then this is probably sufficient. If you think one day a corporate server with 100 users might one day be running on ARM-Linux then you might want to make the above work on a per-process basis. I might be trying to debug my sloppy x86 code while 99 other users are trying to run their correctly written ARM code. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 00:05:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11335 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:05:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11331 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:05:29 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p60-robin-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.120]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU3007EDXD3LV@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:05:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (root@raistlin [192.168.0.3]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00997; Fri, 05 May 2000 23:05:09 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id XAA03152; Fri, 05 May 2000 23:04:27 +0100 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 23:04:26 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <391343FA.3A7B3D49@onthenet.com.au> To: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath) Cc: nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart), pb@labs.futuretv.com (Philip Blundell) Message-id: <200005052204.XAA03152@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk David Bath writes: > So, if we now all accept that there is a time when experienced users (namely > those attempting to port poorly written x86 Linux apps to ARM) will want to > turn user level exceptions on, it seems only a small step (conceptually, if not > technically) to allow them to turn it on at runtime. And then its all too easy for it to be turned on permanently. No, that is not something we want, especially when we end up with users complaining. > If you believe that ARM-Linux will only ever be used in a single-user > environment then this is probably sufficient. If you think one day a corporate > server with 100 users might one day be running on ARM-Linux then you might want > to make the above work on a per-process basis. I might be trying to debug my > sloppy x86 code while 99 other users are trying to run their correctly written > ARM code. But then a decent sysadmin of the corporate server would never let you near to debug your program. He'd want to lock it down as tightly as possible to prevent misuse/hacking/etc, which, if you're talking about a distribution-only box will probably mean no C compiler either. (If you need the machine to stay up, you should only be running tried and tested programs on it). _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 00:17:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11400 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:17:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11396 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:17:10 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU3007P9XWK76@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:17:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.43.186]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FU3001F8XKTS0@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 05 May 2000 18:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 18:22:48 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus In-reply-to: <001701bfb65b$98d77740$bc04fea9@rentbert> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00050518300600.23490@modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <007a01bfb607$4840dd20$5808fea9@rentbert> <00050420055400.21481@modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> <001701bfb65b$98d77740$bc04fea9@rentbert> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk :-), I know. My reply was more to confirm than to negate Raphael. I just replied on your answer instead of the original mail... Mea culpa... Jean > =) I did say if you read my post carefuly that:- > > > > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their > are > > > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two > IIRC. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jean Ricard > To: > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:00 AM > Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus > > > > Maybe I missed a bit, but why do you want to stick with the PCMCIA bus for > a GPS > > card, just buy a oem card with output on a serial port. It's quick and > dirty > > and cheaper. You can even watch the output on minicom. There are two uarts > on > > the SA1100, I guess one is for debugging, the other might be used as the > > listening port for the GPS card... > > > > Jean > > > > > > > > > Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to > use > > > PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware > you > > > make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA > Bus in > > > mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big > PCMCIA > > > GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the > > > PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this > > > will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA > Bus. > > > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their > are > > > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two > IIRC. > > > > > > I hope this clears things up abit=) > > > > > > Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in > most > > > cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. > > > Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first > concern. > > > > > > IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA > Device...but > > > again i could be wrong. > > > > > > -Raphael > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 00:46:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11489 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:46:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11485 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:46:35 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU30092GZ9J8E@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 00:46:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA07628; Sat, 06 May 2000 08:41:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 08:40:53 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart , Philip Blundell Message-id: <39134DF5.FC8B1A5C@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005052204.XAA03152@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > David Bath writes: > > So, if we now all accept that there is a time when experienced users (namely > > those attempting to port poorly written x86 Linux apps to ARM) will want to > > turn user level exceptions on, it seems only a small step (conceptually, if not > > technically) to allow them to turn it on at runtime. > > And then its all too easy for it to be turned on permanently. No, that is not > something we want, especially when we end up with users complaining. Hadn't we agreed we were going to let them turn it on at kernel config time? Turning it on at config time seems to have more potential for permanence then controlling it at runtime. If it's a config time option you need to reboot your machine again to turn it off. If it's a runtime option, then it's much easier to turn it off again. > But then a decent sysadmin of the corporate server would never let you near to > debug your program. I think that depends on what business the corporation is in. Do a 'top' on some big corporate servers at s/w companies like Sun or Cisco and you'll see dozens of people running cc on big thumping SMP servers. Clearly you wouldn't want one of those users to be able to influence user-level exception handling for other users, hence the need to be able to control your own destiny, on a per-process basis. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 01:20:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11750 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 01:20:40 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11746; Sat, 6 May 2000 01:20:36 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00ae01bfb6d5$20e79380$6a0918ac@SMSCORP.NET> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 01:06:50 +0200 To: Leo Johan Susanto From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: FPU Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 23:01 +0200 05-05-2000, Leo Johan Susanto wrote: > Has anybody tried to add a FPU co-processor like Weitek to the LART? What would you want to use it for ? > Is it worth the effort ? Leo IMNSHO no. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 06:33:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12245 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 06:33:04 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12241 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 06:33:02 +0200 Received: from Argok.fish (modemcable049.49-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.49.49]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU400DERFAZGJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 06:33:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from krynux.fish (krynux.fish [192.168.0.4]) by Argok.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA27579; Sat, 06 May 2000 00:32:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krynux.fish (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA20046; Sat, 06 May 2000 00:36:57 -0400 Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 04:36:57 +0000 (GMT) From: David Poisson Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus In-reply-to: <00050420055400.21481@modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> X-Sender: david@krynux.fish To: Jean Ricard Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk But having a bus would allow anyone to have different kind of hardware. A GPS card can be connected to a serial port, but what if someone needs a 2nd network card and a full sound card ? Then a bus becomes something interesting. Again, it all depends what you wanna do with your LART David Poisson david@fish.ecks.org On Thu, 4 May 2000, Jean Ricard wrote: > Maybe I missed a bit, but why do you want to stick with the PCMCIA bus for a GPS > card, just buy a oem card with output on a serial port. It's quick and dirty > and cheaper. You can even watch the output on minicom. There are two uarts on > the SA1100, I guess one is for debugging, the other might be used as the > listening port for the GPS card... > > Jean > > > > > Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to use > > PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware you > > make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA Bus in > > mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big PCMCIA > > GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the > > PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this > > will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA Bus. > > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their are > > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two IIRC. > > > > I hope this clears things up abit=) > > > > Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in most > > cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. > > Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first concern. > > > > IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA Device...but > > again i could be wrong. > > > > -Raphael > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 07:38:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12317 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 07:38:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12310 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 07:38:08 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU400E3NIBFFK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 07:38:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 06 May 2000 15:34:16 +1000 Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:34:16 +1000 (EST) From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Subject: Re: FPU In-reply-to: X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Leo Johan Susanto , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 May 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 23:01 +0200 05-05-2000, Leo Johan Susanto wrote: > > Has anybody tried to add a FPU co-processor like Weitek to the LART? The StrongARM doesn't support external coprocessors so you'd have to access it as memory mapped I/O and/or with GPIO signals which means its not trivial. Also if you have something like this speed is going to be an issue since there is no cache coherancy support so you'd have to work with uncached reqions (blert!) and that means you'd want complex ops being performed to make them worth while or you'd have to invest in writing some nice libraries to do caculations and maintain the cache coherence which is not fun either and will require kernel support for the cache flushing controll. > > What would you want to use it for ? > > > Is it worth the effort ? Leo > > IMNSHO no. > However an FPGA or DSP hanging off the StrongARM might be worth it, say a AD Shark DSP maybe, JDB ;) Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 13:01:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12678 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 13:01:09 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12674 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 13:01:08 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU400HC0X9VQD@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 13:01:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12o2Ic-0007sO-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 06 May 2000 11:59:06 +0100 Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 11:59:55 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: LART PC Boards (International Orders via Credit Card) To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <3913FB2B.27671CCF@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <390FED73.FF389F70@ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, Got mine this morning (UK). Top service, Thanks! (Those flash packages are biiiig. I've got some devices, but not that many- has anyone tried running Blob from a 16-bit device- it's not as if the images I'm likely to be running are huge...) Again, many thanks to the entire organisation that got me/us to this point. The absence of a robust linux box is now critical. Aargh. Steve. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 6 18:16:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12988 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 6 May 2000 18:16:30 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12984 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 18:16:29 +0200 Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU500NBCBVG06@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 6 May 2000 18:16:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.43.186]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FU500J87BJDQ0@field.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 06 May 2000 12:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 12:05:02 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: PCMCIA Bus In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00050612292101.25340@modemcable186.43-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk You better try to use existing bus with wisely chosen hardware. As for an example, there are ISA bus sound card chips that you can easyly adress on the PCMCIA bus (Crystal has some interesting chips). The better way to see if it fits is still to download the datasheets and compare the timings and signals necessary with what you can get from the LART (or SA1100). For the network card, I guess some manufacturers still produce ISA chips, so it may still be used on the PCMCIA bus (you have two card select on the SA1100) . Generally, the changes in software will be a lot easier with that kind of solution since, if the code is well done, you only have to do minor changes as changing base adresses and interrupts in the header files (if parent hardware are supported of course). With a new bus, there are a lot of new considerations: the way you address (CS, timings, int, adresses). If you want to create a driver from scratch, it's the good way ;-). Creating a new bus will imply a lot a discussing to elaborate something to satisfy everyone, and of course you will need some PLD(s) to generate theses signals (leeched from the SA1100 adressing) and all... This is not a bad idea, obviously it can be an interesting project, but generally, in electronic, the simplest solution is the better. Jean > But having a bus would allow anyone to have different kind of hardware. A > GPS card can be connected to a serial port, but what if someone needs a > 2nd network card and a full sound card ? Then a bus becomes something > interesting. Again, it all depends what you wanna do with your LART > > David Poisson > david@fish.ecks.org > > On Thu, 4 May 2000, Jean Ricard wrote: > > > Maybe I missed a bit, but why do you want to stick with the PCMCIA bus for a GPS > > card, just buy a oem card with output on a serial port. It's quick and dirty > > and cheaper. You can even watch the output on minicom. There are two uarts on > > the SA1100, I guess one is for debugging, the other might be used as the > > listening port for the GPS card... > > > > Jean > > > > > > > > > Alot of people seem to think(i could be wrong though) that you have to use > > > PCMCIA Devices with a PCMCIA Bus, the BUS can be used by any hardware you > > > make, you simply need to design it with the Limitations of the PCMCIA Bus in > > > mind. This means if you want GPS, you dont have to buy a great big PCMCIA > > > GPS Card, you can simply buy an OEM GPS Reciever and connect it upto the > > > PCMCIA Bus, although you will have to write your own driver for it, this > > > will decrease size and also allow you to get the most out of the PCMCIA Bus. > > > Offcourse you dont even have to put GPS on the PCMCIA Bus because their are > > > OEM GPS Devices that only require a serial port, and the Lart has two IIRC. > > > > > > I hope this clears things up abit=) > > > > > > Another nice thing about designing your own hardware is that you can in most > > > cases get it to run on less power than its "off-the-shelf" counter-part. > > > Because manufacturers in most cases do not have this as their first concern. > > > > > > IMNSHO This is far better than simply buying an existing PCMCIA Device...but > > > again i could be wrong. > > > > > > -Raphael > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 12:46:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA14807 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:45 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14803 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:44 +0200 Received: from kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org (tazenda.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.239]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600D3KR9JFK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost ([::ffff:127.0.0.1] helo=kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org ident=phil) by kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12oEsD-0002ou-00; Sun, 07 May 2000 01:24:41 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 01:24:41 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: Message from David Bath "of Sat, 06 May 2000 07:58:18 +1000." <391343FA.3A7B3D49@onthenet.com.au> To: David Bath Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005051439.PAA01310@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> <391343FA.3A7B3D49@onthenet.com.au> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >clean build, and then had it crash or behave very strangely, it would be very >useful to be able to do something like... > >echo "usr-fixup" /proc/..... [to enable user level fixups] > >run it again, and see if it works. If it does work, I could then do a > >echo "usr-sigbus" /proc/.... [to enable user level >exceptions] > >run it again, and gather all the info I need to work out how to fix it from >SIGBUS crash details. Fix it, rebuild, and then Both of these solutions are pretty poor because they carry the risk of breaking already-running programs. If your shell was compiled with -march=armv3, for example, enabling either fixups or exceptions for unaligned accesses might well leave you with an unusable machine. (The default for GCC is -march=armv3.) >you might want to make the above work on a per-process basis. Yes. I guess you could conceive of a bit in the program header that says "this program shouldn't be doing unaligned accesses" and caused them to be trapped. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 13:14:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14892 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:14:33 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14888 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:14:26 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600D8OSJXYJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:14:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA19994; Sun, 07 May 2000 21:08:05 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 21:07:47 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Philip Blundell Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <39154E83.8EBA5DD2@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005051439.PAA01310@raistlin.arm.linux.org.uk> <391343FA.3A7B3D49@onthenet.com.au> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Philip Blundell wrote: > >you might want to make the above work on a per-process basis. > > Yes. I guess you could conceive of a bit in the program header that says > "this program shouldn't be doing unaligned accesses" and caused them to be > trapped. hmmm... maybe we could just add a system call to enable it. Then the first thing you could do when porting some code that doesn't seem to work right, is enable the exception handler on the first line. Then you could use the exception to locate and fix the real bug, and then remove the fist line you added. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 13:42:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14931 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:42:34 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14927 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:42:33 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p48-robin-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600E8RTUU8F@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:42:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07248; Sun, 07 May 2000 12:41:35 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09205; Sun, 07 May 2000 12:40:49 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:40:48 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39154E83.8EBA5DD2@onthenet.com.au> To: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath) Cc: Philip.Blundell@pobox.com (Philip Blundell), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: <200005071140.MAA09205@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk David Bath writes: > hmmm... maybe we could just add a system call to enable it. Then the first thing > you could do when porting some code that doesn't seem to work right, is enable the > exception handler on the first line. Then you could use the exception to locate > and fix the real bug, and then remove the fist line you added. No. Phil's point is more or less the same as one of the points I've been trying to make. If all your binaries are compiled up so that they rely on unaligned accesses, and you turn on the SIGBUS, suddenly every process on your system receives SIGBUS when it next runs, leaving you with zero processes, and therefore an unusable system. I did make the suggestion of using the compiler to indicate this, but then dismissed this as a solution because it is not a "binary" thing. It can only be turned on if your binary, your dynamic linker and your libraries are compiled up so they don't use unaligned accesses. IMHO, this is a deep complicated issue which needs a lot of further discussion. Until all the issues are resolved, I don't think we can even start to consider putting this in for 2.4. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 13:51:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14981 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:51:19 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14977 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:51:18 +0200 Received: from kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org (tazenda.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.239]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600DJLU9GYJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:51:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost ([::ffff:127.0.0.1] helo=kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org ident=phil) by kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12oQTF-0006HG-00; Sun, 07 May 2000 13:47:41 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:47:41 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: Message from Russell King - ARM Linux Admin "of Sun, 07 May 2000 12:40:48 BST." <200005071140.MAA09205@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005071140.MAA09205@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King wrote: >David Bath writes: >> hmmm... maybe we could just add a system call to enable it. > >No. Phil's point is more or less the same as one of the points I've been >trying to make. Actually, I think you dismiss David's suggestion too lightly. You could have a system call that turned trapping on for the calling process only. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 13:54:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15008 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:54:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15004 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:54:52 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600DLLUFCYJ@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:54:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA05382; Sun, 07 May 2000 21:49:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 21:49:03 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Philip Blundell , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <3915582E.2EF664CE@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005071140.MAA09205@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > David Bath writes: > > hmmm... maybe we could just add a system call to enable it. Then the first thing > > you could do when porting some code that doesn't seem to work right, is enable the > > exception handler on the first line. Then you could use the exception to locate > > and fix the real bug, and then remove the fist line you added. > > No. Phil's point is more or less the same as one of the points I've been trying to > make. > > If all your binaries are compiled up so that they rely on unaligned accesses, and > you turn on the SIGBUS, suddenly every process on your system receives SIGBUS when > it next runs, leaving you with zero processes, and therefore an unusable system. Actually, I meant for the system call to only turn on exception handling for the process that issued the system call, not for everybody. > It can only be turned on if > your binary, your dynamic linker and your libraries are compiled up so they don't > use unaligned accesses. Yes, dynamic libraries to complicate things. > IMHO, this is a deep complicated issue which needs a lot of further discussion. > Until all the issues are resolved, I don't think we can even start to consider > putting this in for 2.4. Yep, there do seem to be a lot of gotcha's. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 13:56:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15031 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:56:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15027 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:56:42 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p48-robin-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.108]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU600E77UIGPF@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:56:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07339; Sun, 07 May 2000 12:56:35 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09286; Sun, 07 May 2000 12:55:49 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:55:49 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: To: Philip.Blundell@pobox.com (Philip Blundell) Cc: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: <200005071155.MAA09286@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Philip Blundell writes: > Actually, I think you dismiss David's suggestion too lightly. You could have > a system call that turned trapping on for the calling process only. But what about the dynamic linker and libraries? _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 17:47:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15381 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 17:47:26 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15377 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 17:47:26 +0200 Received: from kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org (tazenda.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.239]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU700I9J56Z1I@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 17:47:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost ([::ffff:127.0.0.1] helo=kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org ident=phil) by kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12oRJb-0006Mp-00; Sun, 07 May 2000 14:41:47 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:41:47 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: Message from Russell King - ARM Linux Admin "of Sun, 07 May 2000 12:55:49 BST." <200005071155.MAA09286@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005071155.MAA09286@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >But what about the dynamic linker and libraries? Yes, there's still a pitfall there for the unwary. But it's not nearly as bad - the worst that happens is that the process you're debugging dies unexpectedly (and I think it's fair to say that if you want to do this, you need to take care of how the linker and libraries were built). Whereas with the global approach that some people were advocating, other users can be screwed over without them realising what's going on. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 19:17:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15480 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:17:08 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15476 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:17:07 +0200 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU700J1V9C3WX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:17:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 29295 invoked from network); Sun, 07 May 2000 17:12:51 +0000 Received: from usera839.uk.uudial.com (HELO opticalflowsrv1.ofs.co.uk) (193.149.69.77) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; Sun, 07 May 2000 17:12:51 +0000 Received: by OPTICALFLOWSRV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2XBWLWM0>; Sun, 07 May 2000 17:15:52 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 17:15:47 +0100 From: Callum Gray Subject: 2-D FFT Speed To: "'LART'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any idea how fast a 32*32 2-d complex FFT might take on LART. My application relies heavily on this and is important in the selection of the platform we use. Callum Gray -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 19:41:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15535 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:41:25 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15531 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:41:25 +0200 Received: from core.federated.com (core.federated.com [199.217.175.51]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU700J7NAGZWX@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 7 May 2000 19:41:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by core.federated.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id MAA25316; Sun, 07 May 2000 12:39:10 -0500 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:39:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Studt Subject: Re: 2-D FFT Speed In-reply-to: To: Callum Gray Cc: "'LART'" Message-id: <200005071739.MAA25316@core.federated.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have any idea how fast a 32*32 2-d complex FFT might take on > LART. My application relies heavily on this and is important in the > selection of the platform we use. I have a SA-110 based machine available on the net for testing. Send me email and I will create you an account so you can test this. (The SA-110 is a bit different in cache and memory interface, but it will get you in the ballbark.) -- Jim Studt, President The Federated Software Group, Inc. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 7 23:54:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15865 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 7 May 2000 23:54:50 +0200 Received: from [145.94.108.138] (etbakkerj.its-m.tudelft.nl [145.94.108.138]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15861; Sun, 7 May 2000 23:54:46 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200005071739.MAA25316@core.federated.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:51:12 +0200 To: Jim Studt From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: 2-D FFT Speed Cc: Callum Gray , "'LART'" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:39 +0200 07-05-2000, Jim Studt wrote: >> Does anyone have any idea how fast a 32*32 2-d complex FFT might take on >> LART. My application relies heavily on this and is important in the >> selection of the platform we use. To give you a ballpark estimate: the 64-point 16-bit complex FFT I'm working on takes about 16 microseconds. Let's say a 32-point version can be made to run in eight; you need 64 of those for a 32x32 2D FFT for a grand total of just over half a millisecond. These are figures for hot cache; reading in 1k complex 16-bit samples takes 40 us. Note that this speed is comparable to a 60MHz AD SHARC DSP. However... >I have a SA-110 based machine available on the net for testing. >Send me email and I will create you an account so you can test this. I'd take Jim up on his offer; the only way to be sure is to write some code and profile it to death. I'll try to put up a LART for benchmarking in the next few weeks. JDB [the proof of the pudding and all that jazz] -- "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 00:26:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15970 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 00:26:43 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15966 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 00:26:42 +0200 Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU7003CSNOH5Z@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 00:26:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [195.8.75.54] (helo=clara.co.uk) by oracle.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12oZT2-000Ppk-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sun, 07 May 2000 23:24:04 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:25:26 +0100 From: Andrew Ebling Subject: Re: LART PC Boards (International Orders via Credit Card) To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <3915ED56.BF68F945@clara.co.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <390FED73.FF389F70@ix.netcom.com> <3913FB2B.27671CCF@steves-house.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Steve Wiseman wrote: > Hi, > Got mine this morning (UK). Top service, Thanks! > (Those flash packages are biiiig. I've got some devices, but not that > many- has anyone tried running Blob from a 16-bit device- it's not as > if the images I'm likely to be running are huge...) > > Again, many thanks to the entire organisation that got me/us to this > point. > The absence of a robust linux box is now critical. Aargh. > > Steve. > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 Steve, Have you had much success find a vendor for the SA-1100 and flash disk chips? I'm having real trouble. I hope those hardware kits are going to become a reality soon! Andrew -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 02:47:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA16381 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 02:47:17 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16377 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 02:47:16 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU7005BOU6K05@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 02:47:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA16599; Mon, 08 May 2000 10:41:25 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 10:41:06 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Philip Blundell Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <39160D22.97DF437E@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005071155.MAA09286@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Philip Blundell wrote: > >But what about the dynamic linker and libraries? > > Yes, there's still a pitfall there for the unwary. But it's not nearly as > bad - the worst that happens is that the process you're debugging dies > unexpectedly (and I think it's fair to say that if you want to do this, you > need to take care of how the linker and libraries were built). It would be cool if the exception handler could inspect the code and/or address that caused the misaligned access, and then determine whether it was an intended misaligned access (as caused by -march=armv3 etc.) or an unintended one, as caused by sloppy x86 code. I haven't looked at the generated code, but I would imagine they'd be indistinguishable :-(. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 07:41:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16750 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 07:41:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16746 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 07:41:11 +0200 Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU80089N7SMAL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 07:41:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ally.excite.com ([199.172.148.156]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000508053751.CEAD26238.kuku.excite.com@ally.excite.com> for ; Sun, 07 May 2000 22:37:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert Subject: LART Memory To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <31559004.957764271374.JavaMail.imail@ally.excite.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Excite Inbox Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Sender-Ip: 216.67.46.1 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, Is it possible to substitute the default (as designed) LART on-board flash and RAM to something a tad larger? Sorry but 4 MB and 32 MB just isn't that much anymore, even for embedded. Even Microsoft's cable box, which will be envading your home soon, has more total memory resources than LART, although it's still unclear if this is purly for the Windows CE beast it runs. However, I still would want a little more. Are the new Intel/NEC/SMC/Sintag high density chips backward compatible with the as-designed LART? Johnathan _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 08:25:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16889 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 08:25:01 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16885 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 08:25:00 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p35-cordelia-gui.tch.enablis.net [212.250.233.35]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU8009AY9TMD0@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 08:25:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10969; Mon, 08 May 2000 07:16:13 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18381; Mon, 08 May 2000 07:15:26 +0100 Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 07:15:26 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39160D22.97DF437E@onthenet.com.au> To: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath) Cc: Philip.Blundell@pobox.com (Philip Blundell), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: <200005080615.HAA18381@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk David Bath writes: > It would be cool if the exception handler could inspect the code and/or address > that caused the misaligned access, and then determine whether it was an > intended misaligned access (as caused by -march=armv3 etc.) or an unintended > one, as caused by sloppy x86 code. I haven't looked at the generated code, but > I would imagine they'd be indistinguishable :-(. They could well be identical. However, it may be worth looking at what the sloppy x86 case is producing. Could you create a simple test case and post the instructions around the offending unaligned load? _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 10:09:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17108 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:09:07 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17104 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:09:06 +0200 Received: from hitron.co.kr ([203.251.147.1]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU800EK1EN2BL@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:09:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from wksong (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hitron.co.kr (8.9.1a-H1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA06885 for ; Mon, 08 May 2000 16:51:31 +0900 (KST) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:03:02 +0900 From: Song Weon-Kook Subject: How to make ramdisk for my board? To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <000801bfb8c3$d5e436e0$670aa8c0@hitron.co.kr> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB90F.44F94CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB90F.44F94CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkNCg0KSSBhcHBseSBibG9iIGJvb3QgbG9hZGVyIHRvIFNBMTExMCBib2FyZC4NCkknbSBnb2lu ZyB0byBwb3J0IGxpbnV4IGtlcm5lbCBhbmQgcmFtZGlzay4NCg0KSG93IGNhbiBJIG1ha2UgcmFt ZGlzayBmb3IgbXkgYm9hcmQ/DQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcw0KU29uZw0K ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB90F.44F94CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWtz X2NfNTYwMS0xOTg3IiBodHRwLWVxdWl2PUNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZT4NCjxNRVRBIGNvbnRlbnQ9Ik1T SFRNTCA1LjAwLjI2MTQuMzUwMCIgbmFtZT1HRU5FUkFUT1I+DQo8U1RZTEU+PC9TVFlMRT4NCjwv SEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnQ29sb3I9I2ZmZmZmZj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPkhpPC9GT05U PjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgc2l6ZT0yPkkgYXBwbHkgYmxv YiBib290IGxvYWRlciB0byBTQTExMTAgYm9hcmQuPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBz aXplPTI+SSdtIGdvaW5nIHRvIHBvcnQgbGludXgga2VybmVsIGFuZCByYW1kaXNrLjwvRk9OVD48 L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5Ib3cgY2FuIEkgbWFr ZSByYW1kaXNrIGZvciBteSBib2FyZD88L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0K PERJVj48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTI+QmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBz aXplPTI+U29uZzwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB90F.44F94CA0-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 10:15:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17136 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:15:13 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17132 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:15:12 +0200 Received: from web1206.mail.yahoo.com (web1206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.142]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with SMTP id <0FU800F3AEXBXB@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:15:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 14303 invoked by uid 60001); Mon, 08 May 2000 08:13:01 +0000 Received: from [145.44.70.229] by web1206.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 08 May 2000 01:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 01:13:01 -0700 (PDT) From: jaap stolk Subject: Re: LART PC Boards (International Orders via Credit Card) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <20000508081301.14302.qmail@web1206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk --- Steve Wiseman wrote: > Hi, > Got mine this morning (UK). Top service, Thanks! > (Those flash packages are biiiig. I've got some > devices, but not that > many- has anyone tried running Blob from a 16-bit > device- it's not as > if the images I'm likely to be running are huge...) I have run BLOB (1.05) from a single 28F200 FLASH (Intel) 128k x 16-bit. (this wasn't on the LART see: www.geocities.com/jwstolk) You will need to change the ROM-settings in start.S > > Again, many thanks to the entire organisation that > got me/us to this > point. > The absence of a robust linux box is now critical. > Aargh. > > Steve. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 8 10:28:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17201 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:28:35 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17197 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:28:35 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU800G5GFJMQY@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:28:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 12oirc-000BSt-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 08 May 2000 09:26:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 09:26:53 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman Subject: Re: LART PC Boards (International Orders via Credit Card) To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Message-id: <39167A4D.5755AF8E@steves-house.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <390FED73.FF389F70@ix.netcom.com> <3913FB2B.27671CCF@steves-house.org.uk> <3915ED56.BF68F945@clara.co.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Andrew Ebling wrote: > Have you had much success find a vendor for the SA-1100 and flash > disk chips? I've been sick for the last week, so not much, no. I've got enough to build a couple of boards, though. Unfortunately, real work(tm) has also slipped and is more urgent than LARTing - expect nothing from me for at least 2 weeks now :( > I'm having real trouble. I hope those hardware kits are going to > become a reality soon! Not from here, they won't. I was only ever looking for SA1100s, (and anm _still_ waiting for my distie to get back. Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 9 02:44:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA19669 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 9 May 2000 02:44:48 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA19665 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 02:44:47 +0200 Received: from br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.64.19]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU900MN9OQJJO@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 9 May 2000 02:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from onthenet.com.au (CPE-24-192-86-254.qld.bigpond.net.au [24.192.86.254]) by br4.qld-remote.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA08980; Tue, 09 May 2000 10:37:43 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:37:23 +1000 From: David Bath Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Cc: Philip Blundell , Nicolas Pitre , zhu qun ying , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <39175DC3.D8F920C8@onthenet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005080615.HAA18381@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Russell King - ARM Linux Admin wrote: > David Bath writes: > > It would be cool if the exception handler could inspect the code and/or address > > that caused the misaligned access, and then determine whether it was an > > intended misaligned access (as caused by -march=armv3 etc.) or an unintended > > one, as caused by sloppy x86 code. I haven't looked at the generated code, but > > I would imagine they'd be indistinguishable :-(. > > They could well be identical. However, it may be worth looking at what > the sloppy x86 case is producing. Could you create a simple test case > and post the instructions around the offending unaligned load? I don't have an example handy, but if I come across one I will. Perhaps the original instigator of this thread can help out here. Can you give us an example of some correct C code that inspires arm-gcc to generate intentional misaligned accesses? I suspect porting application code directly to ARM-Linux will remain a task for true masochists. Happily, most unix apps have long ago been ported to MIPS platforms, and so have long ago had their misaligned accesses fixed. The MIPS architecture is far friendlier in this regard, since all misaligned accesses are bad; it doesn't have the concept of good ones and bad ones. Maybe ARM-Linux application porters should keep an old DECstation of SGI Indigo handy. Get the code running there first, and then get it working on ARM. dB. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 9 03:14:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19758 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:14:51 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19754 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:14:50 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FU9000HVQ4N0R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:14:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01571; Tue, 09 May 2000 09:22:13 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17086; Tue, 09 May 2000 09:13:35 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:14:26 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access To: David Bath Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin , Philip Blundell , Nicolas Pitre , Jim Studt , arm , sa1100 , lart Message-id: <39176672.5A4D20F7@krdl.org.sg> Organization: KRDL MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: <200005080615.HAA18381@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <39175DC3.D8F920C8@onthenet.com.au> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > I don't have an example handy, but if I come across one I will. Perhaps the > original instigator of this thread can help out here. > > Can you give us an example of some correct C code that inspires arm-gcc to generate > intentional misaligned accesses? > > I suspect porting application code directly to ARM-Linux will remain a task for true > masochists. Happily, most unix apps have long ago been ported to MIPS platforms, > and so have long ago had their misaligned accesses fixed. The MIPS architecture is > far friendlier in this regard, since all misaligned accesses are bad; it doesn't > have the concept of good ones and bad ones. > > Maybe ARM-Linux application porters should keep an old DECstation of SGI Indigo > handy. Get the code running there first, and then get it working on ARM. > > dB. I have the simple C source for this thread at my first post, but it is not intentional. The original idea comes from re-construct a packed network packet into its original structure form, one integer element is misalligned and I cast the pointer to integer and cause some porblem. Just curious to know, as I am working with StrongARM for only a few months, what are the intentional misalignment asccess for? what are the advantage to use misalignement access to have the roation, as StrongARM does have the rotation instruction. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 9 12:17:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20646 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 9 May 2000 12:17:36 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20642 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 12:17:32 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (p48-magpie-gui.tch.enablis.net [194.168.180.48]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FUA00L8XF95KT@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 9 May 2000 12:17:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15618; Tue, 09 May 2000 07:27:12 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23139; Tue, 09 May 2000 07:26:22 +0100 Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 07:26:22 +0100 (BST) From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Subject: Re: char array, int pointer and cross boundary access In-reply-to: <39176672.5A4D20F7@krdl.org.sg> To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg (zhu qun ying) Cc: dbath@onthenet.com.au (David Bath), Philip.Blundell@pobox.com (Philip Blundell), nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre), jim@federated.com (Jim Studt), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (arm), sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com (sa1100), lart@lart.tudelft.nl (lart) Message-id: <200005090626.HAA23139@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk zhu qun ying writes: > Just curious to know, as I am working with StrongARM for only a few months, what > are the intentional misalignment asccess for? what are the advantage to use > misalignement access to have the roation, as StrongARM does have the rotation > instruction. Take the following code on a machine without half-word instructions (ie, any V3 architecture or broken V4 architecture): struct { unsigned short a; unsigned short b; } *c; c = <4-byte aligned pointer> printf("%d %d\n", c->a, c->b); The code will be: @ r4 = c adr r0, string ldr r1, [r4, #0] ldr r2, [r4, #2] mov r1, r1, asl #16 mov r2, r2, asl #16 mov r1, r1, lsr #16 @ a mov r2, r2, lsr #16 @ b bl printf _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 10 04:10:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA25751 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 10 May 2000 04:10:53 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA25747 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 04:10:48 +0200 Received: from gro.hhhh.org (hhhh.hitl.washington.edu [128.95.73.34]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FUB00I0BNDYQK@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 10 May 2000 04:10:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by gro.hhhh.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09130 for ; Tue, 09 May 2000 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:08:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Toney Subject: subscribe In-reply-to: X-Sender: joeboy@hhhh.hitl.washington.edu To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk subscribe I would like to join this list so if it is not a Major-domo list could someone please add me by hand. Thanks Aaron -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 10 14:13:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27027 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 10 May 2000 14:13:43 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27023 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 14:13:42 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA02683; Wed, 10 May 2000 14:13:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005101213.OAA02683@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: list problems Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Wed May 10 14:13:40 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, There were some problems in the uni's new mail relay hosts which caused some messages to the LART list to bounce. The problem should be solved right now, so if you got an error message about "Relaying denied" please repost your message. Erik -- Computers run on faith, not electrons. -- T.N. Thompson -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 10 16:35:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27468 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 10 May 2000 16:35:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27464 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 16:35:08 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24567 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 16:35:04 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 11 May 2000 00:33:45 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:33:44 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU Subject: BLOB on Assabet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Has anyone ported BLOB to the Assabet or is anyone working on it? Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 10 20:44:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28069 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 10 May 2000 20:44:46 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28065 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 20:44:45 +0200 Received: from ice.fiftyone.com (ice.fiftyone.com [208.225.80.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03744 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 20:44:43 +0200 (METDST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-169.ar51.net [208.225.80.169]) by ice.fiftyone.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25584; Wed, 10 May 2000 14:45:12 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 10 May 2000 14:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Sutherland To: "'Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins'" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: RE: BLOB on Assabet Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:44:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Has anyone ported BLOB to the Assabet or is anyone > working on it? > > Cheers Adam I know of at least one person, Chester , but I don't know if he hangs out on this list. I sent him the SDRAM fixups but he did the integration. //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 11 18:15:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31008 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 11 May 2000 18:15:39 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31002; Thu, 11 May 2000 18:15:14 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:12:19 +0200 To: Carl Keating From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Caps, Ram and fast boot blocks... Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the list as these are bound to be common problems] >Secondly is to ask for any help you might be able to supply with regards to >component procurement. I have had two prototype LART PCBs made and I was in >the process of sourcing all of the components when I ran into a couple of >road blocks. The Fast Boot Block (16-Mbit) Flash memory, DRAM, and tantalum >caps are proving to be problems for me. I have all of the other parts >available. Do you have any of these that you would be interested in selling >(I'm building two boards) I have barely enough parts to do my own run, sorry. > or would you know of anyone that does? You could try teaming up with others on the LART list. > If not do >you have any suggestions of where I could go etc? For the Flash parts note that any component with the base "DT28F160F3" will do; not just the DT28F160F3B120 in the BOM. If none of the distros in http://developer.intel.com/design/disti/ have them, try http://www.memec.com/ . They may not like to ship outside Europe; maybe an UK-based list member is willing to play go between. The DRAM parts have lots of second sources; see http://www.hitex.com/chipdir/abc/d.htm#dram for a more-or-less comprehensive list of DRAM manufacturers. Any 3v3 4Mx16 EDO part in a 50-pin TSOP-II should work; when in doubt feel free to contact me. Low-ESR tantalums are in short supply everywhere; I haven't managed to get them for my run either. Blame the mobile phone boom, I guess. Try finding parts in the same series (AVX TPS D-size devices; see http://www.avxcorp.com/) with a higher voltage rating and the same or slightly lower capacitance (they are overdimensioned anyway). -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 11 19:33:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31203 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 11 May 2000 19:33:54 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA31199 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 19:33:54 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA16789 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 19:33:52 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07933; Thu, 11 May 2000 13:25:13 -0400 Message-Id: <200005111725.NAA07933@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:24:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Caps, Ram and fast boot blocks... To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: GeyAOEREz0MCLNNjU2ooGg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I'll see what our purchasing department can find the parts in the BOM in the LARTdist-README file for from our suppliers. Maybe I can arrange to order a bunch of 'em and sell 'em to people on the list. I'll advertise when I find anything out. >Low-ESR tantalums are in short supply everywhere; I haven't managed to get >them for my run either. Blame the mobile phone boom, I guess. Try finding >parts in the same series (AVX TPS D-size devices; see >http://www.avxcorp.com/) with a higher voltage rating and the same or >slightly lower capacitance (they are overdimensioned anyway). are these the - (1) Maxim MAX1626ESA step-down converter for the I/O voltage ($4) - (1) Maxim MAX1627ESA step-down converter for the core voltage ($4) or something else? Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 11 21:16:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA31508 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 11 May 2000 21:16:49 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA31504 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 21:16:48 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA19710 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 21:16:46 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA08334; Thu, 11 May 2000 15:09:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200005111909.PAA08334@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Caps, Ram and fast boot blocks... To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: +2BdWRj7LIMywyc27ghrfw== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >tantalums are capacitors. Grr... Ah. I just remembered that somebody (Greg Fountain) had posted a link to a complete BOM on the list earlier. Since I'm archiving all the messages I'm finding of major interest, I went ahead and printed it out and sent it to our purchasing dept. :) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 06:03:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA00390 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 06:03:00 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA00386 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 06:02:59 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f42.hotmail.com [209.185.131.105]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA00914 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 06:02:57 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 63801 invoked by uid 0); 12 May 2000 04:02:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20000512040221.63800.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 May 2000 21:02:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] From: "chaman bagga" To: mrq1@gmx.net Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:02:20 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk 1. I've gone thru the links. The interface diagram there uses a microcontroller to convert from PS/2 to RS232 format. This means that I can use GPIO pins to read the serial data from keyboard, but that will unnecessarily be an overhead on arm, if I want to run an RTOS on it. 2. If I have to connect it to serial port, then i'll have to use some logic to take care of bits required while transmitting to the keyboard. One strange point (according to me :) that I encountered was that SA1110 uses NRZ encoding for representing bits (SA1110 manual page 11-110, Dec'99) which I guess is different from what keyboard transmits. Does RS-232 use NRZ (i guess not). If that's the case, then i'll have to reinterpret keyboard data because arm will view it as NRZ data and represent it accordingly??? Regards, chaman. >From: Hermann 'mrq1' Gausterer > > > Hi, > > I'm looking for interfacing a PS/2 keyboard and avoid the USB > > interfaces of LART in KSB, i.e. connect it to a serial port? Someone had > > said that it can be done, but how? directly or some external keyboard > > controller is required? > >hello > >i think no external device is required > >look at >http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm >for the ps/2 protocol. > >there is a link to >http://www.ezl.com/~rsch/projects.htm >this is a project with a pc-keyboard on a embedded controller >ps/2 and old din-keyboards use the sam protocol :-) > >mfg mrq1 >-- >linux 2.2.14 on a dual pentium iii 500 384mb > 1:30pm up 2 days, 23:40, 1 user, load average: 2.07, 2.03, 1.93 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 09:56:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00881 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 09:56:34 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00865; Fri, 12 May 2000 09:56:28 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000512040221.63800.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:54:28 +0200 To: "chaman bagga" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. Cc: mrq1@gmx.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk RS232 plans> Erm, what's wrong with using one of the two PS/2 interfaces that the KSB offers ? JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 10:26:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01070 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 10:26:16 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01066 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 10:26:15 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (IDENT:root@rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06930 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 10:26:12 +0200 (METDST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22294; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:33:48 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28828; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:25:06 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <391BC019.7769A1A2@krdl.org.sg> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:26:01 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Organization: KRDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-arm , lart Subject: GCC bug? feature? char is unsigned Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, I am in the progress of porting a program to StrongARM, and has encounter the following error. This simple error give us a big headache to trace it down. consider this simple program: int main(void) { char i = -1; printf("%d\n", i); return 0; } The print out is 255 in stead of -1, unless I define i as signed char i; then I get the "-1" print out. I know the compiler is free to implement char as signed or unsigned or "pseudo unsigned" according to the standard. But as gcc is treating char as signed char for other platforms, I wonder is this a special treatment for StronARM? Is it a bug in GCC? Or my assumsion of gcc will treat char as signed for all platform is simply wrong. Should it behaves consistently across platforms? I am using the pre-build cross compiler from LART projects. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 11:00:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01202 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 11:00:28 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01198 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 11:00:27 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id LAA15616; Fri, 12 May 2000 11:00:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005120900.LAA15616@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: qyzhu@krdl.org.sg Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: GCC bug? feature? char is unsigned In-Reply-To: <391BC019.7769A1A2@krdl.org.sg> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri May 12 11:00:21 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 12 May 2000 16:26:01 +0800, zhu qun ying wrote: [snip compiler problems] This is off-topic for this list, linux-arm is more appropriate. Erik -- "I'm just this guy you know?" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 12:50:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01429 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 12:50:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01425 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 12:50:08 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13121 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 12:50:06 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 5418 invoked from network); 12 May 2000 08:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([213.224.75.120]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 May 2000 08:01:51 -0000 Message-ID: <391BBA49.2CE4CB67@pandora.be> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:01:13 +0200 From: root X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Who can send me 4 flash memory chips for LART ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dear, Is there someone who can send us 4 flash memory chips for the lart ?? The used type (package type) has a delivery time of at least a few months !!! Of course we will pay the components and the shipment :) Hoping to receive some positive reaction we meanwhile remain, Patrick. Pelgrims Work: Hogeschool voor Wetenshap en Kunst Campus NARAFI V. Rousseaulaan 75 B-1190 Brussels Belgium pel@narafi.wenk.be Home: Westerlosesteenweg 57A B-2220 Heist o/d Berg Belgium patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 13:58:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA01593 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 13:58:07 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01586 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 13:58:06 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f114.hotmail.com [209.185.131.177]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15788 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 13:58:03 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 31767 invoked by uid 0); 12 May 2000 11:57:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20000512115726.31766.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 164.164.56.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 May 2000 04:57:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [164.164.56.2] From: "chaman bagga" To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: mrq1@gmx.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 04:57:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >From: "J.D. Bakker" >Erm, what's wrong with using one of the two PS/2 interfaces that the KSB >offers ? Oops, sorry for deviating from the topic. I was supposed to ask something else, and got trapped elsewhere. 1. What's the connector on KSB? Is it PS/2 connector or is it USB. It looks like USB. 2. Is the code for PLD 2064E available? or any app.notes? Regards, chaman. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 14:59:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01917 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:59:40 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01909; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:59:31 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000512115726.31766.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:55:14 +0200 To: "chaman bagga" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: How do i interface a 5V PS/2 keyboard to LART. Cc: mrq1@gmx.net, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 13:57 +0200 12-05-2000, chaman bagga wrote: >1. What's the connector on KSB? Is it PS/2 connector or is it USB. It looks >like USB. It's a simple 4-pin 0.1in pitch connector, as a regular PS/2 connector doesn't fit in the 6mm clearance between LART and KSB. The signals are clock, data, +5V and GND; building a converter to a 'real' PS/2 connector won't take more than 5 minutes soldering. >2. Is the code for PLD 2064E available? It will be once I've written it ;-) It's close to trivial really; just wire the lot up to 4 GPIOs (one of which must be interruptible). See http://www.suse.cz/development/input/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/8302/keybrd.htm http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/LINK/PORTS/F_Keyboard_FAQ.html for more info. JDB. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 16:15:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02219 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:15:03 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02215 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:15:02 +0200 Received: from cpsexch.liberty.ca ([207.236.111.114]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21322 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:15:01 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cgocable.net (gw2.philipinc.com [216.129.7.66]) by cpsexch.liberty.ca with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id KTNJXR6J; Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:18 -0400 Message-ID: <391C117D.A9DBBD0B@cgocable.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:13:17 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Free EDA tools ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I remember reading some whare that it would be nice to find a set of free tools to use with future LART design... Well I foud some wich are used for the opencores project... Check it out... http://www.opencores.org/OIPC/tool.shtml Hugues Belanger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 16:34:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02272 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:34:11 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02268 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:34:10 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22230 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:34:07 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cx64032a ([24.0.181.72]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000512143324.SPIN13130.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@cx64032a>; Fri, 12 May 2000 07:33:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bfbc1f$c229f180$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> From: "William Bloom" To: Cc: "Wallace Owen" Subject: Fairchild P-N NDH834P - P-Channel Enhancement Mode Field Effect Transistor [Not Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:38:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Fairchild Semi has recommended not using the NDH834P for new designs. Has anyone built and tested the LART with an alternative P-MOSFET? http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/ND/NDH834P.html I am also running into potential delays in purchasing parts, most particularly the Intel flash. Does anyone have a recommendation for a reseller or secondary source? If necessary we will pay well over list price for 10 pieces of boot block flash. Any assistance would be most greatly appreciated. Bill Bloom wmbloom@home.com CardioNet Inc. San Diego CA 858-481-4286 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 16:48:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02338 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:48:41 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02334 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:48:40 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22928 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 16:48:39 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cx64032a ([24.0.181.72]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000512144759.SZNZ13130.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@cx64032a>; Fri, 12 May 2000 07:47:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bfbc21$cbcfd040$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> From: "William Bloom" To: Cc: Subject: An employment opportunity Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:53:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk (This message has been reviewed by the mailing list owner at LART.) Dear LART subscriber: CardioNet Inc. (www.cardionet.com) is a new California USA based medical electronics company. We are well funded and owners of patented technology for monitoring ambulatory cardiac patients. We are looking for an experienced top-notch electronics engineer to join our team as project leader on our Sensor Monitor program. The core uP is an Intel SA-1110 running Linux. We have been monitoring the LART project at TUDelft and believe that surely at least one of the individuals on the mailing list is our ideal candidate. The position is in beautiful North Coastal San Diego California (You can live on the beach in La Jolla or Del Mar or further north). The position offers competitive salary, stock incentives and many percs - and the opportunity to work with some world recognized experts in embedded systems. If you are interested, please respond by return email with your CV or resume. Sincerely, Bill Bloom Vice President, Operations CardioNet, Inc. San Diego California USA 858-481-4286 Voice 858-481-8862 Facsimile -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 17:05:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02411 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:05:17 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02407 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:05:17 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23593 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:05:15 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA11731; Fri, 12 May 2000 10:57:56 -0400 Message-Id: <200005121457.KAA11731@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:57:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: Fairchild P-N NDH834P - P-Channel Enhancement Mode Field Effect Transistor [Not To: wmbloom@home.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 6jWKLLa5oPI3DDAkcPNdqQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >I am also running into potential delays in purchasing parts, most >particularly the Intel flash. Does anyone have a recommendation for a >reseller or secondary source? If necessary we will pay well over list price >for 10 pieces of boot block flash. You may well have to. One of our suppliers mentioned that the price of flash has skyrocketed due to the boom in cell-phones. Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 17:14:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02458 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:14:11 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02454 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:14:10 +0200 Received: from listserv.tudelft.nl (listserv.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.33]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FUG00KMACZL0R@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:14:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from its.tudelft.nl (IDENT:pouwelse@mobile.ubicom.tudelft.nl [130.161.43.247]) by listserv.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02852 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 17:14:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:14:53 +0200 From: Johan Pouwelse Subject: Embedded Linux hardware at UseNix 2000 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <391C3C0D.C7D341D2@its.tudelft.nl> Organization: Technical University Delft MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello, At the large UseNix conference in San Diego June 18-23 there will be a Birds-of-a-Feather (BoF) session featuring the LART. http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix2000/ Linus himself is holding another Linux BoF session there... Is there anybody on the mailinglist attending this conference? If so please drop me an e-mail. Johan. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 18:12:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02637 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 18:12:23 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02632; Fri, 12 May 2000 18:12:19 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000501bfbc1f$c229f180$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:11:38 +0200 To: "William Bloom" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Fairchild P-N NDH834P - P-Channel Enhancement Mode Field Effect Transistor [Not Cc: , "Wallace Owen" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 16:38 +0200 12-05-2000, William Bloom wrote: >Fairchild Semi has recommended not using the NDH834P for new designs. Has >anyone built and tested the LART with an alternative P-MOSFET? > >http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/ND/NDH834P.html Rev4 of the LART (protos are at the PCB fab right now) uses a new power supply, with the IRF7301 instead. Rev2 of the KSB still has the NDH834P (it's cheap, has low Rds_on and low gate charge -- no idea why Fairchild is outphasing it); maybe I'll make a Rev3 with other FETs if I can find the time. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 18:54:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02759 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 18:54:05 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02755 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 18:53:54 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28016 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 18:53:51 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id JAA776712; Fri, 12 May 2000 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <391C36CF.33414147@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:52:31 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Reply-To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Organization: Telvex X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Bloom CC: Lart Mail Server Subject: Re: Fairchild NDH834P Replacement suggestion References: <000501bfbc1f$c229f180$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8F46BAD4BF6FC17BFC674270" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8F46BAD4BF6FC17BFC674270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I would like to suggest the Fairchild FDR838P as alternative to the NDH834P. (Note: It also has a lower Rds(on) 0.024 Ohms@Vgs=-2.5V) Would some else like double check this? Greg William Bloom wrote: > Fairchild Semi has recommended not using the NDH834P for new designs. Has > anyone built and tested the LART with an alternative P-MOSFET? > > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/ND/NDH834P.html > > I am also running into potential delays in purchasing parts, most > particularly the Intel flash. Does anyone have a recommendation for a > reseller or secondary source? If necessary we will pay well over list price > for 10 pieces of boot block flash. > > Any assistance would be most greatly appreciated. > > Bill Bloom > wmbloom@home.com > CardioNet Inc. > San Diego CA > 858-481-4286 > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 --------------8F46BAD4BF6FC17BFC674270 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------8F46BAD4BF6FC17BFC674270-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 19:31:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02909 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:31:57 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02905 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:31:56 +0200 Received: from kensington.london.uk.eu.org (mail@tazenda.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.239]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28918 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:31:48 +0200 (METDST) Received: from kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org [::ffff:192.168.2.83] by kensington.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1 (Debian)) id 12qKDz-00026Z-00; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:31:47 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:127.0.0.1] helo=kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org ident=phil) by kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12qKCY-0002MR-00; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:30:18 +0100 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) To: zhu qun ying cc: linux-arm , lart Subject: Re: GCC bug? feature? char is unsigned In-Reply-To: Message from zhu qun ying of "Fri, 12 May 2000 16:26:01 +0800." <391BC019.7769A1A2@krdl.org.sg> References: <391BC019.7769A1A2@krdl.org.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:30:18 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Message-Id: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Or my assumsion of gcc will treat char as signed for all platform is >simply wrong. Unfortunately this is the case. >Should it behaves consistently across platforms? No. RS6000 has `char' unsigned by default as well. You can use -fsigned-char to force the other behaviour, but there will be a performance hit if you do this. It's usually better to fix the code. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 20:09:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03038 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03034 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:36 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29879 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2B37480F; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:08:08 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:08:08 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: Philip Blundell Cc: zhu qun ying , linux-arm , lart Subject: Re: GCC bug? feature? char is unsigned In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 12 May 2000, Philip Blundell wrote: > No. RS6000 has `char' unsigned by default as well. You can use > -fsigned-char to force the other behaviour, but there will be a performance > hit if you do this. It's usually better to fix the code. Surely if signedness is important for a char (and it usually isn't), you can use a signed char? kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 20:27:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03098 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:27:52 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03094 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:27:51 +0200 Received: from kensington.london.uk.eu.org (mail@tazenda.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.239]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00469 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:27:49 +0200 (METDST) Received: from kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org [::ffff:192.168.2.83] by kensington.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1 (Debian)) id 12qL6x-0002Ez-00; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:28:35 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:127.0.0.1] helo=kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org ident=phil) by kings-cross.london.uk.eu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12qL5X-0002pe-00; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:27:07 +0100 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) To: Kira Brown cc: zhu qun ying , linux-arm , lart Subject: Re: GCC bug? feature? char is unsigned In-Reply-To: Message from Kira Brown of "Fri, 12 May 2000 19:08:08 BST." References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:27:07 +0100 From: Philip Blundell Message-Id: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >> No. RS6000 has `char' unsigned by default as well. You can use >> -fsigned-char to force the other behaviour, but there will be a performance >> hit if you do this. It's usually better to fix the code. > >Surely if signedness is important for a char (and it usually isn't), you >can use a signed char? Yes, of course. The -fsigned-char option is useful if you have large amounts of dusty-deck code with this problem and want a quick fix to get it working, but it is definitely not a good solution in general. p. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 20:42:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03161 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:42:29 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03157 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:42:28 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00776 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 20:42:24 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12482; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:35:01 -0400 Message-Id: <200005121835.OAA12482@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: FDD for LART To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: H+BWC2QD0AM+h0TVQ+yJ1Q== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was wondering how involved designing a floppy controller for the Lart would be... Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 12 21:45:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03360 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 12 May 2000 21:45:01 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03356 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 21:45:01 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA19285; Fri, 12 May 2000 21:43:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005121943.VAA19285@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: barryc@rjlsystems.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: FDD for LART In-Reply-To: <200005121835.OAA12482@rjlsystems.com.> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri May 12 21:43:13 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 12 May 2000 14:34:41 -0400 (EDT), Barry Callahan wrote: > I was wondering how involved designing a floppy controller for the Lart would > be... I really don't know. Try to hook one of the standard PC floppy controllers (NEC or Intel) into PCMCIA space and port the PC floppy driver to ARM. Or just use an ATAPI floppy drive and connect it to the KSB IDE connector. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 13 00:58:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03839 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 13 May 2000 00:58:05 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03834; Sat, 13 May 2000 00:57:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <391C36CF.33414147@ix.netcom.com> References: <000501bfbc1f$c229f180$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:57:24 +0200 To: greg.fountain@telvex.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Fairchild NDH834P Replacement suggestion Cc: William Bloom , Lart Mail Server Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:52 +0200 12-05-2000, Greg Fountain wrote: >I would like to suggest the Fairchild FDR838P as alternative to the NDH834P. >(Note: It also has a lower Rds(on) 0.024 Ohms@Vgs=-2.5V) > >Would some else like double check this? A one-minute glance at the data sheets gives me the feeling you're right. The FDR838P is pin compatible, and the I/V curves appear similar enough. The FDR838P has about three times the gate charge of the NDH834P, so using it in a switching converter will slightly decrease medium-current efficiency. So yes I'd say the FDR838P is a workable alternative to the NDH834P. As the FDR838P has cooler specs it's bound to be more expensive though ;-) JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 13 23:24:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05634 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 13 May 2000 23:24:19 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05630 for ; Sat, 13 May 2000 23:24:17 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25328 for ; Sat, 13 May 2000 23:24:15 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03464; Sat, 13 May 2000 17:47:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org cc: SA-1100/Linux Subject: madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk In the process of searching for a good way to test my UDA1341 audio driver, I just cleaned up splay's fixpoint support a bit and created a ramdisk image with splay on it. Sorry Rob, but I couldn't resist comparing splay against madplay on a SA1100 CPU because of recent concerns about splay benchmarks, threads, etc. So here are the results. Since my ramdisk doesn't have the 'time' command, I grabbed a 'top' screen while each players were running in the background. madplay: 12:27am up 27 min, 1 user, load average: 0.17, 0.04, 0.01 11 processes: 10 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped CPU states: 23.8% user, 0.5% system, 0.0% nice, 75.5% idle Mem: 28140K av, 13328K used, 14812K free, 0K shrd, 6144K buff Swap: 0K av, 0K used, 0K free 3752K cached PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT LIB %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND 84 root 16 0 1272 1272 1176 S 0 23.8 4.5 0:11 madplay 85 root 1 0 872 872 704 R 0 0.5 3.0 0:00 top 1 root 0 0 512 512 440 S 0 0.0 1.8 0:02 init 2 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kswapd 3 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kflushd 4 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kupdate 34 root 0 0 500 500 436 S 0 0.0 1.7 0:00 syslogd 50 root 0 0 568 568 492 S 0 0.0 2.0 0:00 inetd 54 root 0 0 472 472 400 S 0 0.0 1.6 0:00 getty 55 root 0 0 472 472 400 S 0 0.0 1.6 0:00 getty 56 root 0 0 904 904 748 S 0 0.0 3.2 0:00 bash splay: 12:29am up 29 min, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.05, 0.01 13 processes: 11 sleeping, 2 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped CPU states: 17.6% user, 0.5% system, 0.0% nice, 81.7% idle Mem: 28140K av, 13672K used, 14468K free, 0K shrd, 6144K buff Swap: 0K av, 0K used, 0K free 3752K cached PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT LIB %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND 86 root 14 0 904 904 536 R 0 17.0 3.2 0:08 splay 88 root 0 0 904 904 536 S 0 0.5 3.2 0:00 splay 89 root 1 0 872 872 704 R 0 0.5 3.0 0:00 top 1 root 0 0 512 512 440 S 0 0.0 1.8 0:02 init 2 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kswapd 3 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kflushd 4 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0 0.0 0.0 0:00 kupdate 34 root 0 0 500 500 436 S 0 0.0 1.7 0:00 syslogd 50 root 0 0 568 568 492 S 0 0.0 2.0 0:00 inetd 54 root 0 0 472 472 400 S 0 0.0 1.6 0:00 getty 55 root 0 0 472 472 400 S 0 0.0 1.6 0:00 getty 56 root 0 0 904 904 748 S 0 0.0 3.2 0:00 bash 87 root 0 0 904 904 536 S 0 0.0 3.2 0:00 splay Even if splay has 3 threads running, they account for 17.5% CPU vs 23.8% CPU for madplay. Both screen snapshots were taken at the same playback time so the "TIME" comparison should be accurate too. The test file used is MPEG-1 Layer 3, joint stereo, 44100Hz, 128kbit/s. This was tested on Linux 2.3.99-pre6-rmk1-np4. /proc/cpuinfo shows: Processor : Intel StrongARM-1110 rev 5 (v4l) BogoMIPS : 194.15 Hardware : Intel-Assabet The splay version I used is the cleaned one. Its playback performances is the same as the old one, however is starts right away instead of crunching 100% CPU for few seconds. This will produce proper results if mesured with the 'time' comands. If you are interested, here are where you can find all relevant files: splay-0.8.2-fp1.tgz ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ ramdisk_img_splay.gz ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ mad-0.10.3b.tar.gz ftp://ftp.mars.org/pub/mpeg/ Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 14 03:13:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA06300 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 2000 03:13:47 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA06296 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 03:13:46 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28148 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 03:13:44 +0200 (METDST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA02853; Sat, 13 May 2000 21:12:52 -0400 Message-Id: <200005140112.VAA02853@deimos.mars.org> From: Rob Leslie To: Nicolas Pitre Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 May 2000 17:47:38 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:12:49 -0400 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi Nicolas, Your results are interesting. I tried to reproduce them on my SA-1100 platform, but I continue to get results similar to my previous tests: empeg:~# time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 -d - WS010038.A08.mp3 >/dev/null real 1m40.466s user 1m37.240s sys 0m2.450s empeg:~# time ./madplay -o pcm:- WS010038.A08.mp3 >/dev/null MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.4 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie WS010038.A08.mp3: 9550 frames decoded (4:09.4) real 1m9.162s user 1m6.000s sys 0m0.980s Since this file's audio playing time is 4:09, I calculate about 40% and 27% CPU respectively for splay and madplay. (This madplay is a developmental 0.10.4b not 0.10.3b but the results are still similar.) [I note that 40% is an improvement over my previous measurement of 43% for a previous version of splay on this platform :-] Taking a running snapshot during live audio playback tends to confirm this: empeg:~# ps u USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND #0 20 0.0 11.7 2188 856 ttyS1 S Feb17 0:09 -bash #0 592 40.6 12.6 1856 924 ttyS1 S 11:15 0:11 ./splay-0.8.2-fp #0 593 0.0 12.6 1856 924 ttyS1 S 11:15 0:00 ./splay-0.8.2-fp #0 594 0.6 12.6 1856 924 ttyS1 S 11:15 0:00 ./splay-0.8.2-fp #0 606 0.0 9.5 2268 696 ttyS1 R 11:16 0:00 ps u empeg:~# ps u USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND #0 20 0.0 11.8 2188 868 ttyS1 S Feb17 0:09 -bash #0 611 26.8 10.2 7040 748 ttyS1 S 11:17 0:02 ./madplay WS0100 #0 615 0.0 9.4 2268 692 ttyS1 R 11:17 0:00 ps u For reference: empeg:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo Processor : Intel StrongARM-1100 rev 9 (v4l) BogoMIPS : 208.08 Hardware : SA1100-based Revision : 0000 Serial : 0000000000000000 empeg:~# uname -a Linux empeg 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg22 #193 Sat Mar 25 18:04:26 GMT 2000 armv4l unknown Incidentally, your CPU info was: > Processor : Intel StrongARM-1110 rev 5 (v4l) > BogoMIPS : 194.15 > Hardware : Intel-Assabet I'm not very familiar with the differences between the SA-1100 and the SA-1110, but my understanding is that the SA-1110 has at least a faster memory bus. At any rate, the reported time is definitely affected on the SA-110 and possibly the SA-1110 too when threads are used in splay, although curiously, reporting on my SA-1100 is not significantly affected. To wit: [without threads] empeg:~# time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 -t 0 test.mp3 real 4m24.557s user 1m41.140s sys 0m2.650s [with threads] empeg:~# time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 test.mp3 real 4m24.727s user 1m34.870s sys 0m5.530s So the total CPU time on the SA-1100 is similar: 104 vs 100 seconds. Compare that with the SA-110: [without threads] labrat:~$ time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 -t 0 test.mp3 real 4m23.827s user 0m46.620s sys 0m1.850s [with threads] labrat:~$ time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 test.mp3 real 4m23.896s user 0m0.650s sys 0m1.540s That's quite a difference: 48 vs 2 seconds total CPU? Can this be accurate? labrat:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo Processor : Intel sa110 rev 3 BogoMips : 262.14 Hardware : Rebel-NetWinder Serial # : 1517 Revision : 44ff labrat:~$ uname -a Linux labrat 2.2.13 #27 Sat Apr 15 01:32:47 CDT 2000 armv4l unknown If you believe the "with threads" numbers, splay is using less than 1% of the SA-110 CPU. (Incidentally, `top' seems to confirm this.) Without threads, it's more like 18%. For the record, madplay scores about 16% on the same machine with the same input file. I don't have access to a SA-1110 machine so I can't compare directly, but I'd be happy to provide a `time' binary if you'd like to take measurements with something better than `top'. Any idea why the numbers are so different for splay using threads vs splay without threads? Can you compare this on the SA-1110? In any event, madplay seems to be significantly faster than splay right now *on the SA-1100* regardless of the threads issue. Perhaps someone else could compare on another SA-1100 host? Cheers, -- Rob Leslie rob@mars.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 14 07:12:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06534 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:12:44 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06530 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:12:41 +0200 Received: from web2005.mail.yahoo.com (web2005.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.205]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA29795 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:12:38 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 14321 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 2000 05:11:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20000514051122.14320.qmail@web2005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.11.26.209] by web2005.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 13 May 2000 22:11:22 PDT Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 22:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Telsa Subject: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Am I doing this wrong or soldering small components to the PCB using a regular hand solder is the only way of doing this? Does anyone know what is the best way to solder all the components to the Lart PCB? Using a hand solder or is there a special device that will make it easy to solder all of these small components to the PCB that I am not aware of? Thanks for the help, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 14 07:27:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06558 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:27:50 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06554 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:27:47 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA29867 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 07:27:43 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sun, 14 May 2000 15:26:17 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Jim Telsa Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:26:17 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY In-Reply-To: <20000514051122.14320.qmail@web2005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 13 May 2000, Jim Telsa wrote: > Am I doing this wrong or soldering small components to > the PCB using a regular hand solder is the only way of > doing this? Does anyone know what is the best way to > solder all the components to the Lart PCB? Using a > hand solder or is there a special device that will > make it easy to solder all of these small components > to the PCB that I am not aware of? For hand soldering get a micro reflow tip. Its very handy for soldering packages like the 208-TQFP the SA-1100 uses and other SMD devices with low pitches. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 14 09:04:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06668 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 2000 09:04:50 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06664 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 09:04:49 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00768 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 09:04:46 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sun, 14 May 2000 17:02:29 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: "utility account for group.pleb " , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:02:29 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU Subject: PLEB info updates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I've added some info to the PLEB web site regarding Anvil (our JTAG interface program) and Catapult (our firmware project). See their links from the projects page. We should have the PLEB Photon port of Linux and the CAD files for the CPU/Memory and Ethernet boards up over the next few weeks. The skeleton source for catapult will be made avaliable soon. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 14 16:26:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07151 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 2000 16:26:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07147 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 16:26:36 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06073 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 16:26:34 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04090; Sun, 14 May 2000 10:48:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:48:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Rob Leslie cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-Reply-To: <200005140112.VAA02853@deimos.mars.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 13 May 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > Hi Nicolas, > > Your results are interesting. > > I tried to reproduce them on my SA-1100 platform, but I continue to get > results similar to my previous tests: > > empeg:~# time ./splay-0.8.2-fp1 -d - WS010038.A08.mp3 >/dev/null > > real 1m40.466s > user 1m37.240s > sys 0m2.450s > > empeg:~# time ./madplay -o pcm:- WS010038.A08.mp3 >/dev/null > MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.4 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie > WS010038.A08.mp3: 9550 frames decoded (4:09.4) > > real 1m9.162s > user 1m6.000s > sys 0m0.980s > > Since this file's audio playing time is 4:09, I calculate about 40% and 27% > CPU respectively for splay and madplay. (This madplay is a developmental > 0.10.4b not 0.10.3b but the results are still similar.) Did you read README.ARM in splay's archive? For best performances you need to add some compiler flags by hand. Also you could use the splay binary included in the ramdisk image I mentionned in my last mail. Or send me your both binaries so I'll try them on my system. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 01:48:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08456 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 01:48:59 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08452 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 01:48:58 +0200 Received: from deimos.mars.org (deimos.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.209.78]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14974 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 01:48:56 +0200 (METDST) Received: from deimos.mars.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deimos.mars.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16786; Sun, 14 May 2000 19:47:57 -0400 Message-Id: <200005142347.TAA16786@deimos.mars.org> From: Rob Leslie To: Nicolas Pitre Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 May 2000 10:48:55 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:47:56 -0400 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Did you read README.ARM in splay's archive? For best performances you > need to add some compiler flags by hand. Also you could use the splay > binary included in the ramdisk image I mentionned in my last mail. Yes, I followed the README.ARM instructions, and I also tried using the binary from your ramdisk image. > Or send me your both binaries so I'll try them on my system. Your binaries are probably fine, but do you want me to send you a `time' program? (If so, please follow up privately.) You could try timing the pure decoding time like I did by dumping the PCM output to /dev/null. I'm also curious how the threads issue is manifested on the SA-1110. Cheers, -rob -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 06:44:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA08876 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:44:10 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08872 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:44:08 +0200 Received: from web2004.mail.yahoo.com (web2004.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.204]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA17901 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:44:06 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 22677 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2000 04:43:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20000515044320.22676.qmail@web2004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.11.26.209] by web2004.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 14 May 2000 21:43:20 PDT Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Telsa Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk What exactly do you use to solder your components? Do you have any recommendation or tips? Do you know any good sites where I can get some good tips and techniques? As you can see, I am very new to this field. I just got started. I have messed up one of the PCB trying to build the Lart using a hand solder. I have looked into SMT Solder Paste. Do you know anything about this? Is it better than hand soldering and would you recommend it? Thank you for your patient and help. I would greatly appreciate your help if you can give me some good directions, tips, techniques, anything at all, that would allow me to build a Lart without burning up my wallet on components and PCB. Again thank you for your help, Jim --- Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > On Sat, 13 May 2000, Jim Telsa wrote: > > > Am I doing this wrong or soldering small > components to > > the PCB using a regular hand solder is the only > way of > > doing this? Does anyone know what is the best way > to > > solder all the components to the Lart PCB? Using > a > > hand solder or is there a special device that will > > make it easy to solder all of these small > components > > to the PCB that I am not aware of? > > For hand soldering get a micro reflow tip. Its very > handy for > soldering packages like the 208-TQFP the SA-1100 > uses and other SMD > devices with low pitches. > > Cheers Adam > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 06:55:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA08892 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:55:26 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08888 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:55:25 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA18042 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 06:55:22 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:53:51 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Jim Telsa Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:53:46 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY In-Reply-To: <20000515044320.22676.qmail@web2004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Basically we use a high quality temperature controlled soldering iron and Micro-reflow tips. The micro tip is concave tip that holds basically a ball of solder. So you fill the tip with solder, flux up the pins and then run the tip down the pins. You must first tag the chip down by soldering too points after aligning it. A handy tool is a good magnifying glass. You'll need a flux dispenser too. Its fairly easy with this tip if your a good solderer already. I'm not sure what references there are on this stuff though... Its probably only worth it for prototyping runs, production runs your better off getting them assembled outside. Cheers Adam On Sun, 14 May 2000, Jim Telsa wrote: > What exactly do you use to solder your components? Do > you have any recommendation or tips? Do you know any > good sites where I can get some good tips and > techniques? As you can see, I am very new to this > field. I just got started. I have messed up one of > the PCB trying to build the Lart using a hand solder. > I have looked into SMT Solder Paste. Do you know > anything about this? Is it better than hand soldering > and would you recommend it? Thank you for your > patient and help. I would greatly appreciate your > help if you can give me some good directions, tips, > techniques, anything at all, that would allow me to > build a Lart without burning up my wallet on > components and PCB. > > Again thank you for your help, > Jim > > --- Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins > wrote: > > On Sat, 13 May 2000, Jim Telsa wrote: > > > > > Am I doing this wrong or soldering small > > components to > > > the PCB using a regular hand solder is the only > > way of > > > doing this? Does anyone know what is the best way > > to > > > solder all the components to the Lart PCB? Using > > a > > > hand solder or is there a special device that will > > > make it easy to solder all of these small > > components > > > to the PCB that I am not aware of? > > > > For hand soldering get a micro reflow tip. Its very > > handy for > > soldering packages like the 208-TQFP the SA-1100 > > uses and other SMD > > devices with low pitches. > > > > Cheers Adam > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 14:55:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10750 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:55:00 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10746 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:54:58 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06536 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:54:56 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 11041 invoked from network); 15 May 2000 12:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([213.224.75.120]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 15 May 2000 12:47:02 -0000 Message-ID: <391FF19F.916B19AE@pandora.be> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:46:23 +0200 From: patrick pelgrims X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Flash memory DT28F160F3B-XXX or DT28F160S3B-XXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dears, Is it also possible to Use the DT28F160S3B-xxx Intel Flash memory ?? We can't find any DT28F160F3B-xxx type !!!! Hoping to receive some positive reaction (or 4 DT28F160F3B-xxx pieces wich will be payed of course), we mainwhile remain, P. Pelgrims Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst Campus NARAFI V. Roussealaan 75 B-1190 Brussels -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 16:36:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10959 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:36:42 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10955 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:36:41 +0200 Received: from mail.eink.com (mail.eink.com [140.239.80.180]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11442 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:36:39 +0200 (METDST) Received: from mail_server.eink.com by mail.eink.com via smtpd (for mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) with SMTP; 15 May 2000 14:45:58 UT Received: from eink.com (CAD2 [192.168.29.67]) by mail_server.eink.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JGQ1NPM8; Mon, 15 May 2000 10:34:27 -0400 Message-ID: <39200AF9.FC881D2A@eink.com> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:34:33 -0400 From: Holly Gates X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We use solder paste and the Weller MT1500 temp controlled iron or the Pace Thermoflo hot air gun. Small quantities of solder paste which does not need to be refrigerated can be purchased at http://www.prbline.com/soldac_h.cfm . Last time I bought one, the MT1500 cost around $600 USD. It is a really great iron, but you could use a cheaper one and still be successful. The Pace Thermoflo is an excellent tool for assembly with paste, but it runs around $1K USD, and you still need a good iron and really fine tweezers to debridge after reflow. A good magnifier is another must have; we use the Mantis from Vision Engineering which I think is around $1K USD, making it another tough buy for the hobbyist. Working with the iron, you must also have some sort of flux handy. We use a no-clean flux from Techni-Tool. Doing fine pitch SMT soldering is pretty hard without good tools, unfortunately. I would say I could probably put together the LART with a reasonable temp controlled iron, desk magnifier, flux, a tube of solder paste dispensed by hand, and a pair of good tweezers. Even this minimum set of equipment will cost you many hundreds of dollars. -Holly Gates Hardware Engineer E Ink Corp. www.eink.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 16:37:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10975 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:37:53 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10971 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:37:53 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11481 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 16:37:51 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cx64032a ([24.0.181.72]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000515143708.FABZ13130.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@cx64032a>; Mon, 15 May 2000 07:37:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bfbe7b$cd426a80$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> From: "William Bloom" To: "patrick pelgrims" , References: <391FF19F.916B19AE@pandora.be> Subject: Re: Flash memory DT28F160F3B-XXX or DT28F160S3B-XXX Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:42:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have a similar question as well. I found a few pieces of DT28F160F3T-XXX - can they be used? If they can, I will let the group know if I can beg/borrow any more from my source. Bill Bloom CardioNet Inc 6199 Cornerstone Court, Suite 106 San Diego CA USA 92121 858-550-0961 Our new corporate offices! ----- Original Message ----- ----- Original Message ----- From: "patrick pelgrims" To: Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:46 AM Subject: Flash memory DT28F160F3B-XXX or DT28F160S3B-XXX > Dears, > > Is it also possible to Use the DT28F160S3B-xxx Intel Flash memory ?? > We can't find any DT28F160F3B-xxx type !!!! > Hoping to receive some positive reaction (or 4 DT28F160F3B-xxx pieces > wich will be payed of course), > we mainwhile remain, > > P. Pelgrims > Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst > Campus NARAFI > V. Roussealaan 75 > B-1190 Brussels > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 15 18:02:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11160 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 18:02:24 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11155; Mon, 15 May 2000 18:02:19 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000b01bfbe7b$cd426a80$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> References: <391FF19F.916B19AE@pandora.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:01:35 +0200 To: "William Bloom" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Flash memory DT28F160F3B-XXX or DT28F160S3B-XXX Cc: "patrick pelgrims" , Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 16:42 +0200 15-05-2000, William Bloom wrote: >I have a similar question as well. I found a few pieces of >DTDT28F160F3T-XXX - can they be used? As far as I can see yes. Possibly BLOB would need minor adjustments though. Details: the DT28F160F3 is Intel Fast Boot Block memory. Flash memory devices consist of a number of blocks; the 'Boot Block' part indicates that not all blocks are the same size. The device has some smaller blocks (Intel calls them boot/parameter blocks IIRC); on the 'F3B these live in the bottom of the device address range; the 'F3T has them in the top (hence B vs T). I'll try to check on the DT28F160S3B-XXX datasheets tomorrow. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 00:03:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12049 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 00:03:00 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12045 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 00:02:58 +0200 Received: from bucky.excite.com (bucky-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.218]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27165 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 00:02:56 +0200 (METDST) Received: from prickles ([199.172.153.88]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000515220115.PPJQ9044.bucky.excite.com@prickles> for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: <19004533.958428075657.JavaMail.imail@prickles> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:01:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.67.46.113 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk You might want to consider obtaining grouped micro-reflow tips for the specified SMD pitch. These types of soldering tips are available in 2, 4 and 6 pin pairs for various SMD sizes, and act as a regular reflow tip, although they allow you to linearly solder pins in pairs, which makes it much easier on the hands. I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY stepper motor screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the iron base rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! Sorry, but I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy under a few mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro lens, I've produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as those from full production machines ($$$$$$). I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it shouldn't be too hard. Johnathan Leppert -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 01:37:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA12445 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 01:37:58 +0200 Received: from historia.et.tudelft.nl (root@historia.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.33.102]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12441 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 01:37:57 +0200 Received: (from marcj@localhost) by historia.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15284; Tue, 16 May 2000 01:37:55 +0200 From: Marc Joosen Message-Id: <200005152337.BAA15284@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) To: LeppertJ@excite.com (Johnathan Leppert) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:37:55 +0200 (MEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <19004533.958428075657.JavaMail.imail@prickles> from "Johnathan Leppert" at May 15, 2000 03:01:14 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Jonathan Leppert wrote: > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY stepper motor > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the iron base > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! Sorry, but > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy under a few > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro lens, I've > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as those from > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it shouldn't be > too hard. Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect application for the LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts about self-replicating pmpLARTs here... it's life, Jim, but not as we know it. Maybe you would care to add this to the LAR? -- Marc M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl (actually, that's marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl or marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 05:07:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA12742 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 05:07:25 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA12738 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 05:07:03 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03614 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 05:07:01 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24575; Mon, 15 May 2000 23:30:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: Rob Leslie cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-Reply-To: <200005142347.TAA16786@deimos.mars.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sun, 14 May 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > Your binaries are probably fine, but do you want me to send you a `time' > program? (If so, please follow up privately.) You could try timing the pure > decoding time like I did by dumping the PCM output to /dev/null. OK, so I just did on SA1100 hardware for which I don't currently have audio output support: [root@thinclient /]# date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date Mon May 15 21:43:44 EDT 2000 Mon May 15 21:44:11 EDT 2000 [root@thinclient /]# date; madplay -o raw:/dev/null test.mp3; date Mon May 15 21:50:42 EDT 2000 MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.3 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie test.mp3: 1959 frames decoded (0:51.1) Mon May 15 21:51:02 EDT 2000 [root@thinclient /]# cat /proc/cpuinfo Processor : Intel StrongARM-1100 rev 9 (v4l) BogoMIPS : 124.52 Hardware : ADS ThinClient [root@thinclient /dev]# uname -s -r Linux 2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np1 So we got: splay: 27 sec 52.8 %CPU if real-time madplay: 20 sec 39.1 %CPU if real-time The same tests with the same binaries on SA1110 hardware gave me: [root@Linux /]$date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date Thu Jan 1 00:17:03 UTC 1970 Thu Jan 1 00:17:27 UTC 1970 [root@Linux /]$date; madplay -o raw:/dev/null test.mp3; date Thu Jan 1 00:22:16 UTC 1970 MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.3 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie test.mp3: 1959 frames decoded (0:51.1) Thu Jan 1 00:22:27 UTC 1970 [root@Linux /]$cat /proc/cpuinfo Processor : Intel StrongARM-1110 rev 5 (v4l) BogoMIPS : 194.15 Hardware : Intel-Assabet [root@Linux /]$uname -s -r Linux 2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np1 So we get: splay: 24 sec 47.0 %CPU if real-time madplay: 11 sec 21.5 %CPU if real-time So by looking at this splay is much worse than madplay... and even more on a SA1110 which is pretty weird. However, here is what 'time' produces when both players are actually playing: [root@Linux /]$time splay test.mp3 8.81user 0.25system 0:50.44elapsed 17%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (150major+131minor)pagefaults 0swaps [root@Linux /]$time /tmp/madplay test.mp3 MPEG Audio Decoder version 0.10.3 (beta) - Copyright (C) 2000 Robert Leslie test.mp3: 1959 frames decoded (0:51.1) 11.37user 0.31system 0:50.39elapsed 23%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k 0inputs+0outputs (311major+52minor)pagefaults 0swaps Here splay is better than madplay and these 'time' results are also coherent with what I get from 'top' statistics. If I do a cat /dev/zero > /dev/null & I can actually see with 'top' that splay uses approx 18% CPU and the 'cat' process uses the 80% leftover. When madplay uses its 23% CPU, cat actually gets 75% CPU. It's true that splay uses a different object when writing to a file instead of the audio device, but looking at the code it shouldn't make so a big difference... I don't know what to think. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 07:36:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12983 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 07:36:03 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12978; Tue, 16 May 2000 07:35:52 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200005142347.TAA16786@deimos.mars.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:33:36 +0200 To: Nicolas Pitre From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) Cc: Rob Leslie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:30 +0200 16-05-2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: >On Sun, 14 May 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > >> Your binaries are probably fine, but do you want me to send you a `time' >> program? (If so, please follow up privately.) You could try timing the pure >> decoding time like I did by dumping the PCM output to /dev/null. > >OK, so I just did on SA1100 hardware for which I don't currently have >audio output support: > > >[root@thinclient /]# date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date Aren't you really measuring pipe/context switch latency here ? Both of these suck on ARMLinux (because of the required cache flushes). This benchmark may not say too much about splay performance. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 15:49:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14236 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:49:49 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14232 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:49:47 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199] (may be forged)) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27154 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:49:41 +0200 (METDST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:47:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre To: "J.D. Bakker" cc: Rob Leslie , lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, SA-1100/Linux Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 May 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 05:30 +0200 16-05-2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > >On Sun, 14 May 2000, Rob Leslie wrote: > > > >> Your binaries are probably fine, but do you want me to send you a `time' > >> program? (If so, please follow up privately.) You could try timing the pure > >> decoding time like I did by dumping the PCM output to /dev/null. > > > >OK, so I just did on SA1100 hardware for which I don't currently have > >audio output support: > > > > > >[root@thinclient /]# date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date > > > > Aren't you really measuring pipe/context switch latency here ? Both of > these suck on ARMLinux (because of the required cache flushes). This > benchmark may not say too much about splay performance. Task switches between threads don't require a cache flush... but the 'cat' process might be a problem indeed. But for the interesting case i.e. when the player is actually playing, it's still strange that I get opposite results than Rob's. Anyone else can compare splay vs madplay on a SA1100? Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 16:12:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14456 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:12:57 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14450 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:12:56 +0200 Received: from dutein71 by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id QAA10853; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:12:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005161412.QAA10853@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: nico@cam.org Cc: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl, rob@mars.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Tue May 16 16:12:49 +0200 (MDT) 2000 X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.0.1 - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 May 2000 09:47:05 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 16 May 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> At 05:30 +0200 16-05-2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: >> >[root@thinclient /]# date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date >> >> >> >> Aren't you really measuring pipe/context switch latency here ? Both of >> these suck on ARMLinux (because of the required cache flushes). This >> benchmark may not say too much about splay performance. > > Task switches between threads don't require a cache flush... but the 'cat' > process might be a problem indeed. > > But for the interesting case i.e. when the player is actually playing, > it's still strange that I get opposite results than Rob's. > > Anyone else can compare splay vs madplay on a SA1100? Erm, what's wrong with "splay -d - test.mp3 > /dev/null" ? Erik -- Computers run on faith, not electrons. -- T.N. Thompson -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 16 16:40:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14664 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:40:49 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14660 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:40:48 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com (generic199.197.205.205.in-addr.arpa [205.205.197.199] (may be forged)) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29955 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:40:46 +0200 (METDST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre To: Erik Mouw cc: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl, rob@mars.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl, mad-dev@lists.mars.org, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com Subject: Re: [mad-dev] madplay vs splay (MP3 performances) In-Reply-To: <200005161412.QAA10853@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 May -1, Erik Mouw wrote: > On Tue, 16 May 2000 09:47:05 -0400 (EDT), Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Tue, 16 May 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> At 05:30 +0200 16-05-2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > >> >[root@thinclient /]# date; splay -d - test.mp3 | cat > /dev/null; date > >> > >> > >> > >> Aren't you really measuring pipe/context switch latency here ? Both of > >> these suck on ARMLinux (because of the required cache flushes). This > >> benchmark may not say too much about splay performance. > > > > Task switches between threads don't require a cache flush... but the 'cat' > > process might be a problem indeed. > > > > But for the interesting case i.e. when the player is actually playing, > > it's still strange that I get opposite results than Rob's. > > > > Anyone else can compare splay vs madplay on a SA1100? > > Erm, what's wrong with "splay -d - test.mp3 > /dev/null" ? Well... Euh... I'm simply too stupid some times... Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 06:35:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19763 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 06:35:52 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19759 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 06:35:51 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22958 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 06:35:49 +0200 (METDST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.150.199]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000517043510.FQDM13130.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Tue, 16 May 2000 21:35:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39222219.11383F71@home.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:37:45 -0700 From: Wallace Owen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Telsa , LART Mailing List Subject: Re: LART PCB AND COMPONENTS ASSEMBLY References: <20000515044320.22676.qmail@web2004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Jim, I recommend paying someone who has the skills, experience and tools to do this part for you. I've been building boards, soldering components and such for more than 20 years, but when it comes to hi pin count surface-mount parts, it's best if you can find someone that does it for a living. Here in San Diego, I located a board stuffing company that allows me to bring their rework techs occasional after-hours business. Maybe you can find something similar in your area. // Wally Jim Telsa wrote: > > What exactly do you use to solder your components? Do > you have any recommendation or tips? Do you know any > good sites where I can get some good tips and > techniques? As you can see, I am very new to this > field. I just got started. I have messed up one of > the PCB trying to build the Lart using a hand solder. > I have looked into SMT Solder Paste. Do you know > anything about this? Is it better than hand soldering > and would you recommend it? Thank you for your > patient and help. I would greatly appreciate your > help if you can give me some good directions, tips, > techniques, anything at all, that would allow me to > build a Lart without burning up my wallet on > components and PCB. > > Again thank you for your help, > Jim > > --- Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins > wrote: > > On Sat, 13 May 2000, Jim Telsa wrote: > > > > > Am I doing this wrong or soldering small > > components to > > > the PCB using a regular hand solder is the only > > way of > > > doing this? Does anyone know what is the best way > > to > > > solder all the components to the Lart PCB? Using > > a > > > hand solder or is there a special device that will > > > make it easy to solder all of these small > > components > > > to the PCB that I am not aware of? > > > > For hand soldering get a micro reflow tip. Its very > > handy for > > soldering packages like the 208-TQFP the SA-1100 > > uses and other SMD > > devices with low pitches. > > > > Cheers Adam > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 07:58:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA19850 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 07:58:50 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19846 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 07:58:49 +0200 Received: from reflect.newenterprises.com (root@newenterprises.com [207.155.90.15]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24094 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 07:58:47 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (gduncan@localhost) by reflect.newenterprises.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e4H5IqD25113; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:18:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Duncan To: Marc Joosen cc: Johnathan Leppert , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) In-Reply-To: <200005152337.BAA15284@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 May 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > > Jonathan Leppert wrote: > > > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY stepper motor > > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the iron base > > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! Sorry, but > > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy under a few > > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro lens, I've > > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as those from > > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it shouldn't be > > too hard. > > Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect application for the > LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts about > self-replicating pmpLARTs here... Why doesn't someone loan him a working one so he can use it to build a system to assemble many other LARTs? This would benefit other builders with the same assembly problem. It would parallel what the open source community does with software. They may not be self replicating, but they could be prolific! -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 08:52:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19990 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 08:52:26 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19986 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 08:52:25 +0200 Received: from mail.clubnet.net (www.clubnet.net [206.126.128.4]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25340 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 08:52:22 +0200 (METDST) Received: from djl_rfa_server (206.126.141.104) by mail.clubnet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Tue, 16 May 2000 23:48:16 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000516234532.00c27100@mail.clubnet.net> X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:47:49 -0700 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: Derek Lassen Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) In-Reply-To: References: <200005152337.BAA15284@historia.et.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I know were a suitable three axis stepper driver could be got. Or would this be a GBB (Garage Bench Board) ? :> (s) Derek At 10:18 PM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > > > > > Jonathan Leppert wrote: > > > > > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY stepper > motor > > > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the iron > base > > > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! > Sorry, but > > > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy > under a few > > > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro > lens, I've > > > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as > those from > > > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > > > > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it shouldn't be > > > too hard. > > > > Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect application > for the > > LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts about > > self-replicating pmpLARTs here... > >Why doesn't someone loan him a working one so he can use it to >build a system to assemble many other LARTs? This would benefit other >builders with the same assembly problem. It would parallel what the open >source community does with software. > >They may not be self replicating, but they could be prolific! > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 14:36:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20562 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 14:36:01 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20556; Wed, 17 May 2000 14:35:58 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <391FF19F.916B19AE@pandora.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:35:48 +0200 To: patrick pelgrims From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Flash memory DT28F160F3B-XXX or DT28F160S3B-XXX Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 14:46 +0200 15-05-2000, patrick pelgrims wrote: >Dears, > >Is it also possible to Use the DT28F160S3B-xxx Intel Flash memory ?? I checked and it's not possible. The packages are the same, but the pinouts differ too much. Seems Intel doesn't even stick by their own standards. JD 'not too surprised' B. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 15:40:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20726 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 15:40:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20722 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 15:40:07 +0200 Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13616 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 15:40:05 +0200 (METDST) Received: from prickles ([199.172.153.88]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000517133532.CWIF18808.fortune.excite.com@prickles> for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 06:35:32 -0700 Message-ID: <21977413.958570532544.JavaMail.imail@prickles> Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.67.46.17 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Actually, wouldn't a LART be a little bit overkill? Stepper motors are easy to drive, especially so with simple ICs commonly available, and the only thing I can think which any embedded hardware would do is convert the stepper motor's steps to an arbitrary grid system. CAD files would be converted to a suitable X/Y (and Z for navigating around components and solder tip positioning) command format on a PC and fed to the embedded hardware (a PIC?). There are simple surplus systems (6"x6" X/Y/Z fine tooth) for about $100 minus the steppers (which can be had for around $120 for two 500 step units with drivers). Automatic solder loading into the reflow cuvettes, I assume, could be provided by something such as a tweaked/hacked Radio Shack "solder hands free pump". Lastly, (if required) a web cam can be had for $49, take off the lens and put on a small aspheric and you have a complete system. Total positional resolution for this kind of system is a few microns, well below that needed for even the most complex SMD and mixed work. And compare that to an HP "Reflow work station" with .25 mm resolution at $13,500! For the X/Y/Z sled check Edmund Scientific, motor control suppliers, etc. The stepper motors you can get (where I get mine) from lasermotion.com. The hardest part of all this I see is the software for CAD --> instruction conversion. But perhaps the top and bottom gerber layers could be used, along with some kind of timing scheme to determine "how long" the specific solder operation should last (i.e. to specify the solder 'glob' size for different size pins/pads with flowing solder). My system is less eloquent than what I've described and is actually just some scrap steel cut and drilled, and a sled made out of nuts and bolts (to ride the 56 threaded rod lines), and a big alligator clip for holding the iron and a small adjuster for lowering the tip to the board after positioning. Simple, crude, but incredably faster than doing it by hand. So far I've only messed up one board, and this wasn't even really due to soldering problems. I'm suprized there aren't already hobbiest kits for something like this. This sounds like a good project and even product, so if anyone has the spare time go for it. Johnathan Leppert On Tue, 16 May 2000 23:47:49 -0700, Derek Lassen wrote: > I know were a suitable three axis stepper driver could be got. > > Or would this be a GBB (Garage Bench Board) ? :> > > (s) Derek > > At 10:18 PM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > > > > > > > > Jonathan Leppert wrote: > > > > > > > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY stepper > > motor > > > > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the iron > > base > > > > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! > > Sorry, but > > > > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy > > under a few > > > > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro > > lens, I've > > > > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as > > those from > > > > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > > > > > > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it shouldn't be > > > > too hard. > > > > > > Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect application > > for the > > > LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts about > > > self-replicating pmpLARTs here... > > > >Why doesn't someone loan him a working one so he can use it to > >build a system to assemble many other LARTs? This would benefit other > >builders with the same assembly problem. It would parallel what the open > >source community does with software. > > > >They may not be self replicating, but they could be prolific! > > > >-- > >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 17 16:16:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20870 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:16:42 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20866 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:16:41 +0200 Received: from ice.fiftyone.com (ice.fiftyone.com [208.225.80.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15521 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:16:38 +0200 (METDST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-191.ar51.net [208.225.80.191]) by ice.fiftyone.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09737; Wed, 17 May 2000 10:17:25 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 17 May 2000 10:17:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Sutherland To: "'zhu qun ying'" Cc: "LART Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: diff-2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np2.gz Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:17:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 17 May 2000, zhu qun ying wrote: > > > Is blob capable to boot the latest kernel? I did look at > blob's code, and it > > call the kernel > > as fololow: > > > > void (*theKernel)(int zero, int arch) = (void (*)(int, > int))KERNEL_RAM_BASE; > > ... > > theKernel(0, 9); > > The '9' is wrong. For LART, it should be 27. See > linux/include/asm/system.h for the complete list. > > Nicolas If you're using BLOB have you modified start.S to properly initialize the SDRAM memory on the Assabet? Without that, you won't get very far... //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 18 13:42:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24259 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 18 May 2000 13:42:14 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24255 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 13:42:13 +0200 Received: from mail.xpoint.at (mail.xpoint.at [195.2.0.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28319 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 13:42:10 +0200 (METDST) Received: from [195.2.4.157] by mail.xpoint.at (NTMail 4.30.0013/NT8746.00.00189fec) with ESMTP id wdefyaaa for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 13:41:29 +0200 Message-ID: <3923D848.6232D30F@xpoint.at> Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:47:20 +0200 From: kitkat Organization: private X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: LCD/TFT Display and LART ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Script: \\filterscript.mml Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk HI LART People, Is anybody out there that can give me an advice how to connect a LCD/TFT display to LART ? - Which type of LCD/TFT's are usable, where can I get it and by which price ? - What aditional parts are required ( Interfacecard, powersupply, aso.). - Is framebuffer-support available in the LART-linux distribution ? - any other important things ? Thanks for your help and best regards, kitkat >;) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 18 20:36:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25311 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 18 May 2000 20:36:42 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25307 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 20:36:40 +0200 Received: from bucky.excite.com (bucky-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.218]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18537 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 20:36:38 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ally.excite.com ([199.172.148.156]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000518183457.JDMB9044.bucky.excite.com@ally.excite.com> for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:34:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4121729.958674897137.JavaMail.imail@ally.excite.com> Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LCD/TFT Display and LART ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.67.46.92 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, You're going to need some line drivers and/or sync control, but on most commercial/OEM LCDs these are included. I don't know about the LART, but I have worked with Intel SA-11XX type devices and its integral LCD driver has generally good documentation on Intel's site. As for LCD's, do a web search for "Embedded 5" LCDs" or whatever, and you should come up with plenty of distributors. A 4.5", 320x240xRGB LCD should cost you around $120 - $200 (in single units, about $30-50 in 10,000s) depending on manufacture, etc. You should also beware of NTSC LCDs -- that is LCDs which ONLY have Y-video and sync input (not digital). Many are falsly marketed as 'digital' interface and can leave you with a big interface mess (especially if you end up with 5,000 of them like me!). Generally, you should look at the number of connection pins. NTSC/PAL/SECAM/YUV-HDTV will have only around 11 leads, while what you want will have 20+ or more. Also, NEVER buy an LCD without column/row and voltage drivers. This eliminates A LOT of problems, and LCDs which have these often can be "plug-n-play". Don't go for the cheap striped LCD without these, because most LCDs require complex polarity switching circuits and manufacture-porpreitary control, etc. = big pain. Good luck! Johnathan Leppert On Thu, 18 May 2000 13:47:20 +0200, kitkat wrote: > HI LART People, > > Is anybody out there that can give me an advice how to connect a LCD/TFT > display to LART ? > > - Which type of LCD/TFT's are usable, where can I get it and by which > price ? > - What aditional parts are required ( Interfacecard, powersupply, aso.). > - Is framebuffer-support available in the LART-linux distribution ? > - any other important things ? > > Thanks for your help and best regards, kitkat >;) > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 18 21:57:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28065 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 18 May 2000 21:57:25 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28061 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 21:57:24 +0200 Received: from neptune.imagen.net (neptune.imagenisp.com [204.244.138.19]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21410 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 21:57:18 +0200 (METDST) Received: from saltspring.com (th-641810.th.gov.bc.ca [142.36.211.161]) by neptune.imagen.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id LABVRW6J; Thu, 18 May 2000 12:48:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39244ADC.4575A404@saltspring.com> Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:56:12 -0700 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Varek X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LART list Subject: new 1.8 inch 2Gb drive Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Thought the list might find this interesting... Toshiba puts 2Gb hard disk on a PC card: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/05/12/000512hntoshiba.xml Here is the official Toshiba press release: http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2000_05/pr1001.htm This is a 2Gb drive that measures 54.0 x 85.6 x 5 mm and weighs just 55g. How's that for a portable system storage solution? It's a little expensive now (samples are USD$700+) but you just know the price is going to come down... By the way - I'm not associated with Toshiba or anything. I just think think the miniturization of technology is cool! Bye for now... -- Varek Boettcher "Ack, ack ack ack ack" varek@saltspring.com - Mars Attacks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 19 01:24:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08056 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 19 May 2000 01:24:40 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08052 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 01:24:40 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA28772 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 01:24:36 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:23:10 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Varek Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:23:09 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: LART list Subject: Re: new 1.8 inch 2Gb drive In-Reply-To: <39244ADC.4575A404@saltspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Also for those with large storage requirements (music all day long) IBM have a seriers of obscene 30Gig laptop harddrives with low power, high speed, etc. I have no idea about pricing but I'm sure it's not for the faint at heart. Cheers Adam On Thu, 18 May 2000, Varek wrote: > Thought the list might find this interesting... > > Toshiba puts 2Gb hard disk on a PC card: > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/05/12/000512hntoshiba.xml > > Here is the official Toshiba press release: > http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2000_05/pr1001.htm > > This is a 2Gb drive that measures 54.0 x 85.6 x 5 mm and weighs just > 55g. How's that for a portable system storage solution? It's a little > expensive now (samples are USD$700+) but you just know the price is > going to come down... > > By the way - I'm not associated with Toshiba or anything. I just think > think the miniturization of technology is cool! > > Bye for now... > -- > Varek Boettcher "Ack, ack ack ack ack" > varek@saltspring.com - Mars Attacks > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 19 04:38:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA08471 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 19 May 2000 04:38:38 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA08467 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 04:38:37 +0200 Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03388 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 04:38:36 +0200 (METDST) Received: from modemcable094.40-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.40.94]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with SMTP id <0FUS00IHZCH025@falla.videotron.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 18 May 2000 22:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:53:04 -0400 From: Jean Ricard Subject: Re: new 1.8 inch 2Gb drive In-reply-to: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Reply-to: jean.ricard@videotron.ca Message-id: <00051822550600.10775@modemcable094.40-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Also, for those who doesn't like ;-) to waste space, cheaper but small PC card HD drives are found at www.callunacard.com . Their "move-it" product is interesting. JR On Thu, 18 May 2000, you wrote: > Also for those with large storage requirements (music all day > long) IBM have a seriers of obscene 30Gig laptop harddrives with low > power, high speed, etc. I have no idea about pricing but I'm sure it's not > for the faint at heart. > > Cheers Adam > > On Thu, 18 May 2000, Varek wrote: > > > Thought the list might find this interesting... > > > > Toshiba puts 2Gb hard disk on a PC card: > > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/05/12/000512hntoshiba.xml > > > > Here is the official Toshiba press release: > > http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2000_05/pr1001.htm > > > > This is a 2Gb drive that measures 54.0 x 85.6 x 5 mm and weighs just > > 55g. How's that for a portable system storage solution? It's a little > > expensive now (samples are USD$700+) but you just know the price is > > going to come down... > > > > By the way - I'm not associated with Toshiba or anything. I just think > > think the miniturization of technology is cool! > > > > Bye for now... > > -- > > Varek Boettcher "Ack, ack ack ack ack" > > varek@saltspring.com - Mars Attacks > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 19 14:46:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09572 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 19 May 2000 14:46:16 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09568 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 14:45:59 +0200 Received: from legolas.reipur.com ([194.255.24.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25743 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 14:45:46 +0200 (METDST) Received: from frodo ([172.16.26.55]) by legolas.reipur.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA23770 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 14:45:20 +0200 (CEST) From: "Nicolai Mahncke" To: "LART List \(E-mail\)" Subject: RoboCup European Championship 2000 Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:45:45 +0200 Message-ID: <000301bfc190$279fd1e0$371a10ac@reipur.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Will any from the list participate in this event? I noticed that Technische Universiteit Delft is represented. -Does that include the LART gods? Best regards Nicolai Mahncke mailto:nicolai@reipur.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 19 16:19:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09759 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 19 May 2000 16:19:33 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09755 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 16:19:32 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id QAA04531; Fri, 19 May 2000 16:19:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id QAA07493; Fri, 19 May 2000 16:19:23 +0200 Message-Id: <200005191419.QAA07493@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: RoboCup European Championship 2000 In-Reply-To: <000301bfc190$279fd1e0$371a10ac@reipur.com> from Nicolai Mahncke at "May 19, 0 02:45:45 pm" To: nicolai@reipur.com (Nicolai Mahncke) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:19:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nicolai Mahncke wrote: > Will any from the list participate in this event? I noticed that Technische > Universiteit Delft is represented. -Does that include the LART gods? No, those are they guys from the Control Laboratory at the 12th floor, JDB and I are from the Information and Communication Theory group at the 11th floor. As far as I know they use laptops, but maybe we can convince them to use LARTs. Whaddaya think, JDB? ;-) Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 19 19:32:42 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10182 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 19 May 2000 19:32:42 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10178 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 19:32:41 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06877 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 19:32:39 +0200 (METDST) Received: from host62-7-113-213.btinternet.com (HELO phoenix) (62.7.113.213) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2000 10:22:01 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <009601bfc1b4$e3917ce0$d571073e@phoenix> From: "Rodney Arne Karlsen" To: "Johnathan Leppert" , References: <21977413.958570532544.JavaMail.imail@prickles> Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:31:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Would it be possable to make pictures of your working version on the net? I would be interested to see how you built this interesting piece of hardware. Rodney Arne Karlsen ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnathan Leppert To: Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 2:35 PM Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) > Actually, wouldn't a LART be a little bit overkill? Stepper motors are easy > to drive, especially so with simple ICs commonly available, and the only > thing I can think which any embedded hardware would do is convert the > stepper motor's steps to an arbitrary grid system. CAD files would be > converted to a suitable X/Y (and Z for navigating around components and > solder tip positioning) command format on a PC and fed to the embedded > hardware (a PIC?). > > There are simple surplus systems (6"x6" X/Y/Z fine tooth) for about $100 > minus the steppers (which can be had for around $120 for two 500 step units > with drivers). Automatic solder loading into the reflow cuvettes, I assume, > could be provided by something such as a tweaked/hacked Radio Shack "solder > hands free pump". Lastly, (if required) a web cam can be had for $49, take > off the lens and put on a small aspheric and you have a complete system. > Total positional resolution for this kind of system is a few microns, well > below that needed for even the most complex SMD and mixed work. And compare > that to an HP "Reflow work station" with .25 mm resolution at $13,500! > > For the X/Y/Z sled check Edmund Scientific, motor control suppliers, etc. > The stepper motors you can get (where I get mine) from lasermotion.com. The > hardest part of all this I see is the software for CAD --> instruction > conversion. But perhaps the top and bottom gerber layers could be used, > along with some kind of timing scheme to determine "how long" the specific > solder operation should last (i.e. to specify the solder 'glob' size for > different size pins/pads with flowing solder). > > My system is less eloquent than what I've described and is actually just > some scrap steel cut and drilled, and a sled made out of nuts and bolts (to > ride the 56 threaded rod lines), and a big alligator clip for holding the > iron and a small adjuster for lowering the tip to the board after > positioning. Simple, crude, but incredably faster than doing it by hand. So > far I've only messed up one board, and this wasn't even really due to > soldering problems. I'm suprized there aren't already hobbiest kits for > something like this. > > This sounds like a good project and even product, so if anyone has the spare > time go for it. > > Johnathan Leppert > > On Tue, 16 May 2000 23:47:49 -0700, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > I know were a suitable three axis stepper driver could be got. > > > > Or would this be a GBB (Garage Bench Board) ? :> > > > > (s) Derek > > > > At 10:18 PM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Leppert wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY > stepper > > > motor > > > > > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the > iron > > > base > > > > > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! > > > Sorry, but > > > > > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy > > > under a few > > > > > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro > > > lens, I've > > > > > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as > > > those from > > > > > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > > > > > > > > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it > shouldn't be > > > > > too hard. > > > > > > > > Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect application > > > for the > > > > LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts about > > > > self-replicating pmpLARTs here... > > > > > >Why doesn't someone loan him a working one so he can use it to > > >build a system to assemble many other LARTs? This would benefit other > > >builders with the same assembly problem. It would parallel what the open > > >source community does with software. > > > > > >They may not be self replicating, but they could be prolific! > > > > > >-- > > >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 20 05:41:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA11470 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 20 May 2000 05:41:35 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA11466 for ; Sat, 20 May 2000 05:41:34 +0200 Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21854 for ; Sat, 20 May 2000 05:41:32 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ally.excite.com ([199.172.148.156]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000520033920.CUCM18332.fortune.excite.com@ally.excite.com>; Fri, 19 May 2000 20:39:20 -0700 Message-ID: <31786718.958793960914.JavaMail.imail@ally.excite.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert To: Rodney Arne Karlsen , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 38.27.179.211 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Sure, I'll throw up a few pictures. However, I'm leaving for another "forced" Microsoft developer conference, yawn. Going to hear about some new object language they've come up with...at least the change of scene will be good. Sometimes I feel like kicking and screaming to my boss, "I don't want to go!" Oh well. Hope they're not selling the Microsoft clothing line at this one. I'll be sure to post the pic when I get back (29th), anyway. Johnathan Leppert On Fri, 19 May 2000 07:31:18 +0100, Rodney Arne Karlsen wrote: > Would it be possable to make pictures of your working version on the net? I > would be interested to see how you built this interesting piece of hardware. > > Rodney Arne Karlsen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johnathan Leppert > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: PMP (was: Re: LART PCB...) > > > > Actually, wouldn't a LART be a little bit overkill? Stepper motors are > easy > > to drive, especially so with simple ICs commonly available, and the only > > thing I can think which any embedded hardware would do is convert the > > stepper motor's steps to an arbitrary grid system. CAD files would be > > converted to a suitable X/Y (and Z for navigating around components and > > solder tip positioning) command format on a PC and fed to the embedded > > hardware (a PIC?). > > > > There are simple surplus systems (6"x6" X/Y/Z fine tooth) for about $100 > > minus the steppers (which can be had for around $120 for two 500 step > units > > with drivers). Automatic solder loading into the reflow cuvettes, I > assume, > > could be provided by something such as a tweaked/hacked Radio Shack > "solder > > hands free pump". Lastly, (if required) a web cam can be had for $49, take > > off the lens and put on a small aspheric and you have a complete system. > > Total positional resolution for this kind of system is a few microns, well > > below that needed for even the most complex SMD and mixed work. And > compare > > that to an HP "Reflow work station" with .25 mm resolution at $13,500! > > > > For the X/Y/Z sled check Edmund Scientific, motor control suppliers, etc. > > The stepper motors you can get (where I get mine) from lasermotion.com. > The > > hardest part of all this I see is the software for CAD --> instruction > > conversion. But perhaps the top and bottom gerber layers could be used, > > along with some kind of timing scheme to determine "how long" the specific > > solder operation should last (i.e. to specify the solder 'glob' size for > > different size pins/pads with flowing solder). > > > > My system is less eloquent than what I've described and is actually just > > some scrap steel cut and drilled, and a sled made out of nuts and bolts > (to > > ride the 56 threaded rod lines), and a big alligator clip for holding the > > iron and a small adjuster for lowering the tip to the board after > > positioning. Simple, crude, but incredably faster than doing it by hand. > So > > far I've only messed up one board, and this wasn't even really due to > > soldering problems. I'm suprized there aren't already hobbiest kits for > > something like this. > > > > This sounds like a good project and even product, so if anyone has the > spare > > time go for it. > > > > Johnathan Leppert > > > > On Tue, 16 May 2000 23:47:49 -0700, Derek Lassen wrote: > > > > > I know were a suitable three axis stepper driver could be got. > > > > > > Or would this be a GBB (Garage Bench Board) ? :> > > > > > > (s) Derek > > > > > > At 10:18 PM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Marc Joosen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Leppert wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I've also built a sort of poor man's plotter, which is an XY > > stepper > > > > motor > > > > > > screw driven device which positions the tips at a specified (the > > iron > > > > base > > > > > > rests above the worm gear) spot on the board, and keeps it there! > > > > Sorry, but > > > > > > I just think human muscles cannot hold a position to an accuracy > > > > under a few > > > > > > mm, much less one. With this unit and a good web cam with a macro > > > > lens, I've > > > > > > produced boards which are almost identical in terms of quality as > > > > those from > > > > > > full production machines ($$$$$$). > > > > > > > > > > > > I have yet to try the LART, but as I've done finer pitch, it > > shouldn't be > > > > > > too hard. > > > > > > > > > > Ah, wouldn't the PMP (poor man's plotter) be a perfect > application > > > > for the > > > > > LART itself -- once you've built one? I must suppress thoughts > about > > > > > self-replicating pmpLARTs here... > > > > > > > >Why doesn't someone loan him a working one so he can use it to > > > >build a system to assemble many other LARTs? This would benefit other > > > >builders with the same assembly problem. It would parallel what the > open > > > >source community does with software. > > > > > > > >They may not be self replicating, but they could be prolific! > > > > > > > >-- > > > >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun May 21 23:46:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14405 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 21 May 2000 23:46:25 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14401 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 23:46:24 +0200 Received: from meer.meer.net (meer.meer.net [140.174.164.2]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00283 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 23:46:22 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([209.157.143.131]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id OAA1737743 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 14:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <392858E0.F208DE85@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:45:04 -0700 From: Greg Fountain Reply-To: greg.fountain@telvex.com Organization: Telvex X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lart Mail Server Subject: JTAG programming cable Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------65007A065449E3D3D9BF6130" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------65007A065449E3D3D9BF6130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Anyone thinking about putting together some JTAG code to program the LART Flash memory? You might want to take a look at the following web pages: Cable Drawing http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/2_1i/data/common/jtg/fig4.htm Cable Schematic http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/2_1i/data/common/jtg/fig26.htm Programming Cable Part Number and Price. http://toolbox.xilinx.com/cgi-bin/xilinx.storefront/1859220929/UserTemplate/2 For $95 USD Xilinix offers a quick way to get your hands on some off-the-shelf JTAG programming hardware (it plugs into a PC's parallel port). Saves the time of having to wire up a cable yourself. Greg --------------65007A065449E3D3D9BF6130 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sv_calif.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Greg Fountain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sv_calif.vcf" begin:vcard n:Fountain;Greg tel;fax:650-854-2465 tel;work:650-854-6626 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.telvex.com org:Telvex adr:;;;Menlo Park;California;94025;USA version:2.1 email;internet:greg.fountain@telvex.com end:vcard --------------65007A065449E3D3D9BF6130-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon May 22 22:20:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17350 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:20:52 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17345 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:20:50 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:20:26 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: New schematics posted Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, Schematics for LART Rev 4, KSB Rev 2 and the quad Ethernet board have been posted to the website. Get them while they're hot ! JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 23 00:18:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA17793 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:18:36 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17789 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:18:34 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21609 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:18:29 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cx64032a ([24.0.181.72]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000522221750.KVWQ28251.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@cx64032a> for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:17:50 -0700 Message-ID: <004101bfc43c$5f3edb60$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> From: "William Bloom" To: Subject: LART, Rev3, Parts C53 and C54 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:23:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC401.B2BE71A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC401.B2BE71A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LART: The May 18th Rev of the BOM changed the values of these parts from 0.1 = uF to 0.47 uF. Is this value critical or can I populate with the few = 0.22 uF caps that I have? I can't get a 0.47 uF in an 805 package in a = timely manner. Recommendations? Bill Bloom CardioNet Inc. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC401.B2BE71A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LART:
 
The May 18th Rev of the BOM changed the = values of=20 these parts from 0.1 uF to 0.47 uF.  Is this value critical or can = I=20 populate with the few 0.22 uF caps that I have?  I can't get a 0.47 = uF in=20 an 805 package in a timely manner.
 
Recommendations?
 
Bill Bloom
CardioNet = Inc.
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC401.B2BE71A0-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 23 06:57:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA18662 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:57:03 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA18658 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:57:00 +0200 Received: from mail.chilesat.net (mail2.chilesat.net [200.31.43.52]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28737 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:56:55 +0200 (METDST) Received: from embedded.cl (200.31.58.14) by mail.chilesat.net (NPlex 4.0.068) id 391C773900033D20 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:53:36 -0400 Message-ID: <392A13C6.FC4D2E4C@embedded.cl> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:14:47 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LART Subject: Re: New schematics posted References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > Hi all, > > Schematics for LART Rev 4, KSB Rev 2 and the quad Ethernet board have been > posted to the website. Get them while they're hot ! > > JDB. The Linear chips was an excellent choice for the new power supply. My own experience is that they are far more reliable than Maxim ICs. Why didn't you use them from the start? Cheers! -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik | pbleyer |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend air; @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue May 23 16:48:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20234 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:48:35 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20230 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:48:33 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id QAA26967; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:48:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id QAA28143 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:48:32 +0200 Message-Id: <200005231448.QAA28143@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: New pictures in l'Art gallery To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:48:32 +0200 (CEST) From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, By popular request (hi Marc ;-) I put some pictures of a LART connected to a Palm III in the gallery. See: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/gallery/#apps Erik -- I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. -- Linus Torvalds on the gcc mailing list -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 11:13:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23112 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:13:21 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23106; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:13:18 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004101bfc43c$5f3edb60$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:08:45 +0200 To: "William Bloom" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART, Rev3, Parts C53 and C54 Cc: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [Folks, please don't send HTML-mail to the list] At 00:23 +0200 23-05-2000, William Bloom wrote: > Dear LART: The May 18th Rev of the BOM changed the values of these >parts from 0.1 uF to 0.47 uF. Is this value critical or can I populate >with the few 0.22 uF caps that I have? I can't get a 0.47 uF in an 805 >package in a timely manner. Recommendations? Bill Bloom CardioNet Inc. 0.22u should work just fine; they're decoupling caps for the switchers. I have boards working with 0.47u and 0.1u. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 11:13:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23116 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:13:29 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23108; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:13:19 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <392A13C6.FC4D2E4C@embedded.cl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:11:16 +0200 To: Pablo Bleyer Kocik From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: New schematics posted Cc: LART Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 07:14 +0200 23-05-2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote: > The Linear chips was an excellent choice for the new power supply. My own >experience is that they are far more reliable than Maxim ICs. Why didn't you >use them from the start? Coincidence. Both Linear and Maxim have chips that are suitable for LART. When I was working on LART rev 1 the Maxim sales rep returned my call and the Linear one didn't. JDB -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 18:33:27 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24367 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:33:27 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24363 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:33:25 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23929 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:33:23 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N116P004.dipool.highway.telekom.at [195.3.78.100]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA176174 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:32:04 +0200 Message-ID: <392C0446.E99E61A4@aon.at> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:33:10 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart Subject: JTAG programming Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi everbody, After searching a long time for a nice (and cheap) JTAG software I've decided to build a JTAG programmer on my own. But before I spent serveral weeks on this, I would like to ask if someone else is already working on such a project. So, is there someone ? And if, is there a chance to cooperate ? Of cource everyting out on my compiler(s) will be GPL'd. olaf ~ ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 18:57:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24480 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:57:17 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24476 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:57:16 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com ([205.250.170.220]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24922 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:57:14 +0200 (METDST) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre To: Olaf Ernst cc: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: <392C0446.E99E61A4@aon.at> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 24 May 2000, Olaf Ernst wrote: > Hi everbody, > > After searching a long time for a nice (and cheap) JTAG > software I've decided to build a JTAG programmer on my own. What's wrong with the tool for which I posted a reference several times on this list? It's for SA1110 but should be easily adapted for SA1100 as well. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 19:24:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24600 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:24:10 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24596 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:24:08 +0200 Received: from dgf.uchile.cl (dgf.uchile.cl [146.83.8.200]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25830 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:24:00 +0200 (METDST) Received: from castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (castellatus [146.83.8.190]) by dgf.uchile.cl (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA04834 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 13:20:06 -0400 (CST) Received: from embedded.cl by castellatus.dgf.uchile.cl (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id NAA13036; Wed, 24 May 2000 13:19:58 -0400 (CST) Message-ID: <392C1449.A82E0E8A@embedded.cl> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:41:29 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal Subject: Re: New schematics posted References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > At 07:14 +0200 23-05-2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote: > > The Linear chips was an excellent choice for the new power supply. My own > >experience is that they are far more reliable than Maxim ICs. Why didn't you > >use them from the start? > > Coincidence. Both Linear and Maxim have chips that are suitable for LART. > When I was working on LART rev 1 the Maxim sales rep returned my call and > the Linear one didn't. > > JDB So it was customer support's fault ;^) The design of our board's switcher was based on the LTC1148. I hadn't realized Linear had a better chip for the same job. Thanks to the LART, now our board design got improved. Thank you very much ;^) Cheers! -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"Mamma said to get things done pbleyer | you better not mess with Major Tom" @embedded.cl | -- Ashes to Ashes, David Bowie -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 20:02:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24731 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:02:05 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24727 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:02:03 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27159 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:01:59 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N116P004.dipool.highway.telekom.at [195.3.78.100]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA152388 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:00:40 +0200 Message-ID: <392C1908.DED799A6@aon.at> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:01:44 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id UAA24728 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > At 05-24-200ß Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Wed, 24 May 2000, Olaf Ernst wrote: > What's wrong with the tool for which I posted a reference several times on > this list? It's for SA1110 but should be easily adapted for SA1100 as > well. Nothing is wrong, and you can be sure that I will use some code of this software, but... I want to be able programm the blob,the kernel and ramdisk image into the flash. In all resources I found, the programming speed using the parallel port of the PC is VERY limited. Writing 4MB of data would take at least a few hours :-( What I'm thinking of is some kind of microcontroller taking in the data over a high speed serial (ethernet?) port, buffering it, and pumping it into the LART with a few MHz. IN THEORY it should be possible to program with 10K/sec with a std RS232 at 115Kbaud. (~7min for 4MB) We (my personal hardware guru and I) have enough parts flying aroung to try this aproach. I hope the MC software will be so simple that it can be adopted to any MC with a serial port,4 available GPIO's and a C compiler. olaf ~ ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 20:04:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24746 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:04:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24742 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:04:36 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27234 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:04:34 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA27326; Wed, 24 May 2000 13:56:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200005241756.NAA27326@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery and stuff To: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl, lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 64ksGMK4jI2ECPYHdqxbAQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik, Have a couple questions for you regarding the picture with the PalmIII: 1) In the picture, we see the ribbon cable coming off the LART, going behind a black thing, and ultimately connecting to the palm's uplink cable. Part of that black thing is apparently the battery pack, but what are the boxy-looking things (pointing at 11:00 and 7:30 from the top of the battery pack) 2) In the caption for the above described picture, you mention that there's two 64MB expansion cards on the thing. Does that mean there's a total of 160MB of RAM on the LART? If those expansions were home-built, any chance of posting their schematics? How about a BOM and the set of Gerber, etc files for the PCB? While I'm asking for things, could you guys also post Gerbers and a BOM for the Rev. 4 Lart? Please? Barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 20:16:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24787 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:16:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24783 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:16:08 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27773 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:16:06 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N116P004.dipool.highway.telekom.at [195.3.78.100]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA153406; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:14:43 +0200 Message-ID: <392C1C55.560CCDA5@aon.at> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:15:49 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Wiseman CC: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: <392C0446.E99E61A4@aon.at> <392C0D55.8762A3D7@steves-house.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Steve Wiseman wrote: > Are you planning 'real' hardware, or doing everything in software and > using a simple lead from the printer port to the jtag port? Yes, but I would like to use the serial port instead of the parallel. > If the first, I already have hardware to do this, it's just a bit > complicated for occasional use (Altera 10K30, on a PCB rather buigger > than a LART) He,he. I have a SAB167 based board lying around. > If you're planning a mostly-software solution, then it looks like it's > mostly just a case of updating sa1110jtag.h from the JFlash project. I know the code, and I am very thankfull for the flash programming know-how in it. > If you do go the software route, let us know when it works, I guess it's > one of the main stumbling blocks left. No matter what way it will work in the end, I will put up little site somewhere with all infos & software needed to build it. > (If you need a hand debugging,let me know, and I'll hang a logic analyser > on one of my LART protos) Do you know the saying: "The worst thing you can get is what you asked for" ? olaf ~ ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 20:54:58 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24948 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:58 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24944 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:56 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA05149; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id UAA14538; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:55 +0200 Message-Id: <200005241854.UAA14538@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery and stuff In-Reply-To: <200005241756.NAA27326@rjlsystems.com.> from Barry Callahan at "May 24, 0 01:56:30 pm" To: barryc@rjlsystems.com Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Barry Callahan wrote: > Have a couple questions for you regarding the picture with the PalmIII: > > 1) In the picture, we see the ribbon cable coming off the LART, going behind a > black thing, and ultimately connecting to the palm's uplink cable. Part of that > black thing is apparently the battery pack, but what are the boxy-looking things > (pointing at 11:00 and 7:30 from the top of the battery pack) The "black thing" is a 4.5V battery (pretty standard over here in Europe). The boxy looking things are a home-made null-modem cable: 1 1 RxD 2 --v-- 2 RxD TxD 3 --^-- 3 TxD 4 4 GND 5 ----- 5 GND 6 6 RTS 7 --v-- 7 RTS CTS 8 --^-- 8 CTS 9 9 Somebody else asked if it was possible to connect a Psion 5MX as the keyboard and display: yes of course, as long as it speaks RS-232. No special software needed at the LART side, just a terminal emulator on the Psion. > 2) In the caption for the above described picture, you mention that there's two > 64MB expansion cards on the thing. Does that mean there's a total of 160MB of > RAM on the LART? If those expansions were home-built, any chance of posting > their schematics? How about a BOM and the set of Gerber, etc files for the PCB? Yes. there's a total of 160MB on that LART, though the LART doesn't really use it (needs a kernel modification). It was just to test if they didn't burn. As soon as they are really tested, we'll post the Gerbers and a BOM (the design is really close to trivial). > While I'm asking for things, could you guys also post Gerbers and a BOM for the > Rev. 4 Lart? It was posted two days ago. Get it at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/ . Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 21:09:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA25007 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:09:50 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25003 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:09:48 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA05231; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:09:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA14562; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:09:47 +0200 Message-Id: <200005241909.VAA14562@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: <392C1908.DED799A6@aon.at> from Olaf Ernst at "May 24, 0 08:01:44 pm" To: oernst@aon.at (Olaf Ernst) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:09:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Olaf Ernst wrote: > > At 05-24-200_ Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > > > On Wed, 24 May 2000, Olaf Ernst wrote: > > What's wrong with the tool for which I posted a reference several times on > > this list? It's for SA1110 but should be easily adapted for SA1100 as > > well. > > Nothing is wrong, and you can be sure that I will use some > code of this software, but... > > I want to be able programm the blob,the kernel and ramdisk > image into the flash. In all resources I found, the programming > speed using the parallel port of the PC is VERY limited. > Writing 4MB of data would take at least a few hours :-( Take the two step approach: - Burn blob into Flash using the JTAG cable and Nico's software - Fire-up LART, download kernel and ramdisk using the serial cable - Boot linux, log in - Download kernel and ramdisk, again using the serial cable - Burn kernel and ramdisk into Flash using the flash block driver I'm working on the Flash block driver. > What I'm thinking of is some kind of microcontroller taking > in the data over a high speed serial (ethernet?) port, > buffering it, and pumping it into the LART with a few MHz. > IN THEORY it should be possible to program with 10K/sec > with a std RS232 at 115Kbaud. (~7min for 4MB) That doesn't solve the problem of bootstrapping a LART, you now have to program the microcontroller. The main advantage of the parallel port solution is that every PC has a serial port, and assembling a JTAG cable is trivial for somebody who managed to build a LART. KISS[1]! In case you really want to go the MC way: Adam Wiggins has such software for a (PIC?) microcontroller. Erik [1] Keep It Simple, Stupid! A most wonderful engineering philosofy. -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 21:57:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA25273 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:57:36 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25269 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:57:35 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01746 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:57:33 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N926P010.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.170]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA35716; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:56:14 +0200 Message-ID: <392C341F.F0E8B996@aon.at> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:57:19 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Mouw CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: <200005241909.VAA14562@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id VAA25270 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > Take the two step approach... I agree, this would work. > That doesn't solve the problem of bootstrapping a LART, you now have to > program the microcontroller. You´re absolutely right. I know that this is a big additional efford, but I also think that it is worth the efford, especially if this device can also be use for other testing and programming purposes... > The main advantage of the parallel port solution > is that every PC has a serial [?? I GUESS YOU MEANT PARALLEL] port, > and assembling a JTAG cable is trivial for somebody who managed > to build a LART. KISS[1]! - Every PC also has a serial port ;-> - Soldering together a small MC, a buffer, a lever shifter and a MAX232 should also be trivial for people who work with 204 pin TQFP's ;-> Even the KISS prinicple can be overstressed... ~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If god wanted us to use HEX numbers, he would have given us 16 fingers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 22:11:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25320 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:11:49 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25316 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:11:48 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id WAA05481; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:11:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id WAA14598; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:11:47 +0200 Message-Id: <200005242011.WAA14598@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: <392C341F.F0E8B996@aon.at> from Olaf Ernst at "May 24, 0 09:57:19 pm" To: oernst@aon.at (Olaf Ernst) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:11:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Olaf Ernst wrote: > Erik Mouw wrote: > > That doesn't solve the problem of bootstrapping a LART, you now have to > > program the microcontroller. > > You_re absolutely right. > I know that this is a big additional efford, but I also think that > it is worth the efford, especially if this device can also be use > for other testing and programming purposes... The parallel cable can also be used in such a way. > > The main advantage of the parallel port solution > > is that every PC has a serial [?? I GUESS YOU MEANT PARALLEL] port, > > and assembling a JTAG cable is trivial for somebody who managed > > to build a LART. KISS[1]! (yes, I meant parallel port) > - Every PC also has a serial port ;-> > > - Soldering together a small MC, a buffer, a lever shifter and a MAX232 > should also be trivial for people who work with 204 pin TQFP's ;-> That's the easy part, now how would you like to program the MC? You just modified the problem of programming a LART into the problem of programming a MC. Of course you can use another MC, or use the vendor's programming tools, but it will cost you $$$. The parallel cable uses free software and is easy to build (just a level shifter). > Even the KISS prinicple can be overstressed... No. Perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away[1]. Erik [1] RFC 1925, but this quote has been used by others, too. -- The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. -- Niels Bohr -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 22:29:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25411 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:29:11 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25407 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:29:10 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02889 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:29:08 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N926P010.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.170]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04572; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:27:49 +0200 Message-ID: <392C3B86.2A473701@aon.at> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:28:54 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Mouw CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: <200005242011.WAA14598@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > The parallel cable can also be used in such a way. OK.OK. Let's agree that almost every cable running aut of a pc can be (ab)used to carry data in a serial fashion. ;-} > That's the easy part, now how would you like to program the MC? > Of course you can use another MC... Yes I will. A SAB165 to be precise. > programming tools, but it will cost you $$$. Luckily I have the development tools for this processor. BTW: It is a GNU GCC, but you don't get the process specific sources... > > Even the KISS prinicple can be overstressed... > > No. Perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, > but when there is nothing left to take away[1]. Please don't let us start some kind of flame war here. So here comes my last statement regarding this issue: I absolutely agree to the KISS prinicple, only my #define's of "simple" and "stupid" are different to yours ;-) ~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In a world without doors an fences, who needs windows and gates ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 23:20:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25568 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:20:56 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25564 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:20:55 +0200 Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04649 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:20:54 +0200 (METDST) Received: from [212.126.141.151] (helo=clara.co.uk) by oracle.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12uiYw-0001bO-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:19:36 +0100 Message-ID: <392C560B.2C82DF00@clara.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:22:03 +0100 From: Andrew Ebling X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: <200005241909.VAA14562@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > Take the two step approach: > > - Burn blob into Flash using the JTAG cable and Nico's software > - Fire-up LART, download kernel and ramdisk using the serial cable > - Boot linux, log in > - Download kernel and ramdisk, again using the serial cable > - Burn kernel and ramdisk into Flash using the flash block driver > > I'm working on the Flash block driver. > > > What I'm thinking of is some kind of microcontroller taking > > in the data over a high speed serial (ethernet?) port, > > buffering it, and pumping it into the LART with a few MHz. > > IN THEORY it should be possible to program with 10K/sec > > with a std RS232 at 115Kbaud. (~7min for 4MB) > > That doesn't solve the problem of bootstrapping a LART, you now have to > program the microcontroller. The main advantage of the parallel port solution > is that every PC has a serial port, and assembling a JTAG cable is trivial for > somebody who managed to build a LART. KISS[1]! I'll second this... I'll be building a LART soon. Bootstrapping/flashing blob is the last concern I have over using a LART; I need to be able to program it using nothing other than a standard PC and a few custom made cables. I don't really care if it takes all day to download... A really simple solution (even if its not the most high performance) is what is needed for most of us. BR, Andrew -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 24 23:25:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25592 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:25:16 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25588 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:25:15 +0200 Received: from xanadu.vipswitch.com ([205.250.170.220]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04796 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:25:14 +0200 (METDST) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:21:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre To: Erik Mouw cc: Olaf Ernst , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: <200005242011.WAA14598@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 24 May 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > That's the easy part, now how would you like to program the MC? > You just modified the problem of programming a LART into the problem > of programming a MC. Of course you can use another MC, or use the vendor's > programming tools, but it will cost you $$$. The parallel cable uses free > software and is easy to build (just a level shifter). The parallel cable that Intel actually shipped with the Assabet has only 100 ohms resistors on each 4 lines. That's even cheaper than a level shifter! However it's not fast i.e. in the order of 1 KB/s. So the only advantage of a more crafted solution is speed. IMHO a JTAG programmer is nice for bootloader burning. Once the bootloader is running, the rest of the flash can be programmed by hosted software and data uploaded with more conventional means which may even be ethernet. Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 01:10:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA26068 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 01:10:22 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26064 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 01:10:21 +0200 From: Mikecra@cdw.com Received: from pathfinder.cdw.com (pathfinder.cdw.com [204.148.148.92]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08137 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 01:10:19 +0200 (METDST) Received: from crazyhorse.cdw.com (unverified) by pathfinder.cdw.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:00:17 -0500 Received: by crazyhorse.cdw.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:00:17 -0500 Message-ID: <12CB47905524D4118B070008C7CF70A1011BAC62@eshare.cdw.com> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: KSB And Ethernet board Gerber files Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:00:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any Idea on how long until the KSB and Ethernet boards Gerber files will be posted on the website. I am interested in (as so many are) making an MP3 player with the LART, and I need the KSB and Eth boards to do it. Michael R. Crawford -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 02:48:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA26307 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:48:23 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26303 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:48:21 +0200 Received: from krdl.org.sg (IDENT:root@rodin.krdl.org.sg [192.122.139.27]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10548 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:48:18 +0200 (METDST) Received: from mailhost.krdl.org.sg (mailhost [192.122.134.30]) by krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14905 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:56:05 +0800 Received: from krdl.org.sg (QUNYING.krdl.org.sg [192.168.136.36]) by mailhost.krdl.org.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27940 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:47:13 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <392C7848.2890F243@krdl.org.sg> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:48:08 +0800 From: zhu qun ying Organization: KRDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: <200005241909.VAA14562@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Erik Mouw wrote: > Take the two step approach: > > - Burn blob into Flash using the JTAG cable and Nico's software > - Fire-up LART, download kernel and ramdisk using the serial cable > - Boot linux, log in > - Download kernel and ramdisk, again using the serial cable > - Burn kernel and ramdisk into Flash using the flash block driver > > I'm working on the Flash block driver. > > That doesn't solve the problem of bootstrapping a LART, you now have to > program the microcontroller. The main advantage of the parallel port solution > is that every PC has a serial port, and assembling a JTAG cable is trivial for > somebody who managed to build a LART. KISS[1]! Yes. But blob can not bootstrap itself. If you change blob, you still need the JTAG to reload it, or you can always write a special driver under Linux to write the thing into flash. My approach to this is a dirty hack. I separate blob into 2 parts that compile independently. Then join the 2 parts into one boot image. The first part prepare the processor then load the second part into RAM and jump to it. The second part is as the normal blob works plus some modification to load itself. Once you have a working blob in the flash, you can forget about JTAG (of course your new blob is a working copy, otherwise you still need your good old JTAG to save you). > > In case you really want to go the MC way: Adam Wiggins has such software for > a (PIC?) microcontroller. > > Erik > > [1] Keep It Simple, Stupid! A most wonderful engineering philosofy. -- (~._.~) Öì Ⱥ Ó¢ (Qun Ying) (65) 874-6743 ( O ) Kent Ridge Digital Labs (KRDL) ()~*~() 21 Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Singapore 119613 (_)-(_) qyzhu@krdl.org.sg * zhuqy@hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 04:19:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26525 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:28 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26517; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:25 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200005241756.NAA27326@rjlsystems.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:15 +0200 To: Barry Callahan From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: 160MB LARTs, PCMCIA and other goodies (was Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery and stuff) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:56 +0200 24-05-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: >2) In the caption for the above described picture, you mention that >there's two >64MB expansion cards on the thing. Does that mean there's a total of >160MB of >RAM on the LART? Yup. > If those expansions were home-built, any chance of posting >their schematics? Sure; I've the PDFs, just haven't found the time to hack together a page. The same goes for the PCMCIA interface board and the analog RGB output for the LCD interface. > How about a BOM and the set of Gerber, etc files for the PCB? As per standard policy: I'll release a hardware distro as soon as I'm confident the bloody things work. Do you understand why I have this policy ? >While I'm asking for things, could you guys also post Gerbers and a BOM >for the >Rev. 4 Lart? That will probably be released first, as it requires the smallest amount of (incremental) testing. My timetable: I received fresh blank PCBs today. I have a conference on Thursday and Friday; will try to get the boards stuffed soonest next week. We are a low-priority task for the board assembler, so I can't tell when I will have them back. OK? JDB. -- "Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 04:19:26 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26520 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:26 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26515; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:23 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <12CB47905524D4118B070008C7CF70A1011BAC62@eshare.cdw.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 04:11:41 +0200 To: Mikecra@cdw.com From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: KSB And Ethernet board Gerber files Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 22:00 +0200 24-05-2000, Mikecra@cdw.com wrote: >Does anyone have any Idea on how long until the KSB and Ethernet boards >Gerber files will be posted on the website. As soon as we've tested them. We now have stereo audio out working (to the point that I am confident that the hardware is OK); disk and Ethernet are up next. > I am interested in (as so many >are) making an MP3 player with the LART, and I need the KSB and Eth boards >to do it. Hey, me too ;-). Trust me, we have enough incentive to finish testing; the major problem is time. JDB [just look at when this mail was sent to see my point] -- "... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 04:28:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26660 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:28:54 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26656 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:28:53 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA12797 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:28:50 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:27:13 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Olaf Ernst Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:27:12 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: <392C0446.E99E61A4@aon.at> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 24 May 2000, Olaf Ernst wrote: > Hi everbody, > > After searching a long time for a nice (and cheap) JTAG > software I've decided to build a JTAG programmer on my own. > But before I spent serveral weeks on this, I would like > to ask if someone else is already working on such a project. Yes I'm working on one. I have the tap controller part done and a rough idea of the rest of the design. It should be easy to write something quickly that uses my tap controller to burn the flashes on LART. I'm hoping to add the tool to the gEDA project once its a little more developed. The idea is to have a general JTAG programer to do things like test PCB assebly and burn flashes/CPLDs/etc. > So, is there someone ? > And if, is there a chance to cooperate ? I can give you theh working TAP controller and a simple GTK testing interface to it probably by friday night. > Of cource everyting out on my compiler(s) will be GPL'd. Of course. Cheers Adam P.S. The tap currently uses the PC parallel port. This works fine with the Assabets parallel port jtag cable (it has 100ohm resisters in series with the I/O lines to drop them from 5V to 3.3V). I tried making a cable like this for PLEB (our local brewed SA1100 boards. The voltages I'm getting at teh JTAG port however are 3.9V with 100ohm and 1kohm resisters which overloads the JTAG port on the SA shutting it down. I have no idea what else the assabet has on the board to clamp the voltages down to 3.3 (I'm not actually sure what the voltage is since its hard to probe the assabet) unless the SA1110s JTAG port is slightly different. As a result you'll have to make a little board with e 5<->3.3volt buffer between the parallel port and the JTAG port or make up one of the little AVR tap controllers we're working on. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 04:37:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26709 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:37:34 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26705 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:37:33 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA12963; Thu, 25 May 2000 04:37:29 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:37:01 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Nicolas Pitre Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:36:50 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: Erik Mouw , Olaf Ernst , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 24 May 2000, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > > On Wed, 24 May 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > > That's the easy part, now how would you like to program the MC? > > You just modified the problem of programming a LART into the problem > > of programming a MC. Of course you can use another MC, or use the vendor's > > programming tools, but it will cost you $$$. The parallel cable uses free > > software and is easy to build (just a level shifter). > > The parallel cable that Intel actually shipped with the Assabet has only > 100 ohms resistors on each 4 lines. That's even cheaper than a level > shifter! As I've said, I made up this cable for PLEB and it didn't work. The SA1100 got 3.9 volts which while not damaging the chip (fingers crossed, an old JTAG programmer I had still seamed to work and the board still works) seems to lock up the JTAG board. I could have stuff up the cable but I'm pretty sure its correct. JDB if I give you a little line driver program for the parport can you make up a similar JTAG cable for LART and see if it works or not? > > However it's not fast i.e. in the order of 1 KB/s. So the only advantage > of a more crafted solution is speed. > > IMHO a JTAG programmer is nice for bootloader burning. Once the > bootloader is running, the rest of the flash can be programmed by > hosted software and data uploaded with more conventional means which may > even be ethernet. As I've said before our goal is to use it for debugging PCB assebly faults as well as burning flashes. Plus I'm sure some of the real hardware people would like to add a JTAG program to their EDA toolbox. Wouldn't it be nice if your schematic/pcb programs automatically generated a connection test routine and compiled it to run on the JTAG chain which it works out you have as well and then you just run that test sequence on your JTAG program to see if the boards correctly assembled ;) Remember what JTAG was designed for :) Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 07:26:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27158 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:26:35 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27154 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:26:33 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15857 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:26:30 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N922P007.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.39]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA47704; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:25:02 +0200 Message-ID: <392CB96F.B395F208@aon.at> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:26:07 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" CC: lart Subject: Re: JTAG programming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > I can give you theh working TAP controller and a simple GTK > testing interface to it probably by friday night. Great ! greetings, olaf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 14:23:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28110 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:23:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28106 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:23:06 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA04868 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:23:04 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA29546; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:15:10 -0400 Message-Id: <200005251215.IAA29546@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:15:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: Re: 160MB LARTs, PCMCIA and other goodies (was Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery and stuff) To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: lq3KDkGjWNqtLwj8VwDWAA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >From: "J.D. Bakker" on Thu, 25 May 2000 04:19:15 +0200 >Sure; I've the PDFs, just haven't found the time to hack together a page. >The same goes for the PCMCIA interface board and the analog RGB output for >the LCD interface. Neat-O. > >> How about a BOM and the set of Gerber, etc files for the PCB? > >As per standard policy: I'll release a hardware distro as soon as I'm >confident the bloody things work. Do you understand why I have this policy ? That's cool. Erik already informed us that the memory expansions are still in the 'extremely experimental' stage. I'd made the incorrect assumption that they were ready for release. >>... >>Rev. 4 Lart? > >That will probably be released first, as it requires the smallest amount of >(incremental) testing. Burritos. :) > >My timetable: I received fresh blank PCBs today. I have a conference on >Thursday and Friday; will try to get the boards stuffed soonest next week. >We are a low-priority task for the board assembler, so I can't tell when I >will have them back. > >OK? > >JDB. > >-- >"Windows is the one true OS. MS invented the GUI. MS invented the 32 >bit OS. MS is open and standard. MS loves you. We have always been >at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu May 25 18:04:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA28676 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:04:41 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28672 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:04:40 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-32 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FV400LK2HZP58@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:04:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.8] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id AE6BE013A; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:01:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:07:40 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: 160MB LARTs, PCMCIA and other goodies (was Re: New pictures inl'Art gallery and stuff) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <392D4FCC.5655B4B@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Drool. With 160Mb RAM, it should be possible to buffer a lot of stuff to better facilitate disk parking to save batteries. I can imagine 128Mb of MP3 files playing for quite a while before disk access would be needed for the next batch... BTW - Slashdot had an article about a new type of memory that's a spinoff of the CD RW technology. It's purported to be faster than flash, non-volatile, and have a 10 trillion write-back capacity. I wonder how long it will be before we actually see this. That could replace harddrives altogether - just burn a non-volatile RAM-Disk image to part of it for instant-on computing and use the rest as a "virtual hard-disk" drive... Wow - that would open up some serious possibilities - can you imagine a LART with more memory and storage than a workstation and still wearable on the belt and running of a 9 volt battery? Mike "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > At 19:56 +0200 24-05-2000, Barry Callahan wrote: > >2) In the caption for the above described picture, you mention that > >there's two > >64MB expansion cards on the thing. Does that mean there's a total of > >160MB of > >RAM on the LART? > > Yup. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 08:24:56 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30417 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:24:56 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30411 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:24:56 +0200 Received: from smtp.pandora.be (hercules.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.33]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07983 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:24:54 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 5246 invoked from network); 26 May 2000 06:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pandora.be) ([212.123.14.81]) (envelope-sender ) by hercules.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 May 2000 06:23:53 -0000 Message-ID: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:23:17 +0200 From: patrick pelgrims X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: JTAG programming and GTK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Dear Olaf, Is it possible to make the GTK interface and the schematics of the controller interface available on the web ? Hoping to receive a positive reaction, I meanwhile remain, P. Pelgrims P.S. We are still searching for Lart FLASH memory's !!!! (4 pieces) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 13:38:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31045 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:38:28 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31041 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:38:26 +0200 Received: from mail.chilesat.net (mail2.chilesat.net [200.31.43.52]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20987 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:38:22 +0200 (METDST) Received: from embedded.cl (200.31.58.22) by mail.chilesat.net (NPlex 4.0.068) id 391C7739000492E3 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:34:48 -0400 Message-ID: <392E665E.CEBC9CBE@embedded.cl> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:56:14 -0400 From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LART Subject: Re: JTAG programming and GTK References: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk patrick pelgrims wrote: > P.S. We are still searching for Lart FLASH memory's !!!! (4 pieces) It seems there is a strong shortage on Intel TSOP Flash memories. Do you know if this is the same with the SSOP version? -- Pablo Bleyer Kocik | pbleyer |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend air; @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 16:44:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31417 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:44:33 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31413 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:44:31 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29182 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:44:29 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cx64032a ([24.0.181.72]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000526144344.YQPU28251.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@cx64032a> for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:43:44 -0700 Message-ID: <001601bfc721$a36337e0$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> From: "William Bloom" To: Subject: INTELFlash Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:49:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFC6E6.F6E2CE20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFC6E6.F6E2CE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LART: Intel Flash, part no. DT28F160F3B95, was instock yesterday through Arrow = Electronics, Inc. a national US distributor. : (877) 237-8621=20 Good Luck Bill Bloom CardioNet Inc. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFC6E6.F6E2CE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LART:
 
Intel Flash, part no. DT28F160F3B95, = was instock=20 yesterday through Arrow Electronics, Inc. a national US = distributor.
: (877) 237-8621
 
Good Luck
 
Bill Bloom
CardioNet Inc.
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFC6E6.F6E2CE20-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 17:27:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA31568 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:27:03 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA31564 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:27:02 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01173 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:27:01 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N923P001.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.65]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA156706; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:25:40 +0200 Message-ID: <392E97B6.53388673@aon.at> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:26:46 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: patrick pelgrims CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: JTAG programming and GTK References: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk patrick pelgrims wrote: > Is it possible to make the GTK interface and the schematics of the > controller interface available on the web ? > Hoping to receive a positive reaction, I meanwhile remain, As soon as it works I will put up a little site somewhere. Everting I produce for this purpose will be OpenSource / OpenHardware. If I have to incooperate source or HW from other people, the availability of this parts will depend on the opinion of this persons. I will, however try to use only free/GPL'd stuff. geetings, Olaf ~ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 19:58:50 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31953 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:58:50 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA31949 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:58:49 +0200 Received: from mail.siscom.net ([209.251.2.99]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA05372 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:58:45 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 96648 invoked from network); 26 May 2000 17:57:47 -0000 Received: from ppp84.c5300-3.day-oh.siscom.net (HELO siscom.net) (209.251.11.84) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 26 May 2000 17:57:47 -0000 Message-ID: <392EE4BF.4558C5BA@siscom.net> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:55:27 -0700 From: Brian Kraack Reply-To: bkraack@siscom.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olaf Ernst CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: LART production References: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> <392E97B6.53388673@aon.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I've been away for a while, but still getting all the messages. I haven't seen any further info from anyone who was planning on building LARTs and selling them, or doing a cooperative production run. What's happened with these? I still want at least one, possibly more. Has anyone besides the main guys got any of these units built? How do you like 'em? /Brian -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 20:18:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32004 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:18:55 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA32000 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:18:54 +0200 Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05953 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:18:53 +0200 (METDST) Received: from [195.8.76.183] (helo=clara.co.uk) by oracle.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12vOfu-0008F0-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:17:36 +0100 Message-ID: <392ECE69.BBCDB488@clara.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:20:09 +0100 From: Andrew Ebling X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery References: <200005231448.QAA28143@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > > By popular request (hi Marc ;-) I put some pictures of a LART connected to a > Palm III in the gallery. I'm thinking about getting a Palm IIIe (the see-thru one with 2MB memory) to use (amongst the usual boring PDA stuff) with a LART. What software is required to get a terminal on the pilots screen connected via its uplink cable? Where can it be downloaded? Is there enough RAM left after the usual software to add this when using a 2MB Palm IIIe? Any help/advice appreciated, Andrew -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 20:53:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32104 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:53:06 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA32100 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:53:06 +0200 Received: from lumiere by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id UAA18762; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:53:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005261853.UAA18762@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: New pictures in l'Art gallery In-Reply-To: <392ECE69.BBCDB488@clara.co.uk> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Fri 26 May 2000 20:53:04 +0100 (MDT) X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.2devel - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX64) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 26 May 2000 20:20:09 +0100, Andrew Ebling wrote: >> By popular request (hi Marc ;-) I put some pictures of a LART connected to a >> Palm III in the gallery. > > I'm thinking about getting a Palm IIIe (the see-thru one with 2MB memory) to > use (amongst the usual boring PDA stuff) with a LART. What software is > required to get a terminal on the pilots screen connected via its uplink > cable? Where can it be downloaded? Is there enough RAM left after the usual > software to add this when using a 2MB Palm IIIe? I'm using "Online" from Mark/Space Softworks (http://www.markspace.com/ ). You can download a demo version and should obtain a license (which is about US$ 30) if you keep using it, but it's nice. Uses 56K of memory. "Pilot VT100" is free, but it's not as good as "Online". Get it at http://www.frotz.net/vt100/ . Uses 10K of memory. The Palm craddle has a serial connector which you can use to interface to the LART. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 21:06:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA32164 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:06:48 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA32160 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:06:47 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-33 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FV6004FUL392I@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:06:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.79] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id AA9D142E0090; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:03:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:10:28 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: LART production Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <392ECC24.58EBC2B3@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> <392E97B6.53388673@aon.at> <392EE4BF.4558C5BA@siscom.net> Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Oh, those plans still exist - but those of us who are interested in doing this are waiting for the Lart to get through testing before sinking a lot of money into something that may not work as expected. Also, the gerbers haven't been released yet for the latest revisions pending the testing, so we kinda have to wait anyway... Patience - it's worth the wait. Mike Brian Kraack wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I've been away for a while, but still getting all the messages. I haven't > seen any further info from anyone who was planning on building LARTs and > selling them, or doing a cooperative production run. What's happened with > these? > I still want at least one, possibly more. > > Has anyone besides the main guys got any of these units built? How do you > like 'em? > > /Brian > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri May 26 21:20:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA32243 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:20:04 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA32239 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:20:03 +0200 Received: from antipater.hosting.pacbell.net (antipater.hosting.pacbell.net [216.100.99.13]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07661 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:20:00 +0200 (METDST) Received: from raccoon (adsl-63-194-216-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.194.216.100]) by antipater.hosting.pacbell.net id PAA03028; Fri, 26 May 2000 15:16:39 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.7] Message-ID: <00c701bfc746$fad78650$6500a8c0@PALMICRO> Reply-To: "Ling Su" From: "Ling Su" To: "William Bloom" , References: <001601bfc721$a36337e0$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> Subject: Re: INTELFlash Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:17:05 -0700 Organization: Palm Microsystems, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFC70C.4E4939E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFC70C.4E4939E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I checked with Arrow Electronics, all the Intel flash has been = reserved...:(( Any other resources? Best regards, -Ling ----- Original Message -----=20 From: William Bloom=20 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl=20 Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:49 AM Subject: INTELFlash LART: Intel Flash, part no. DT28F160F3B95, was instock yesterday through = Arrow Electronics, Inc. a national US distributor. : (877) 237-8621=20 Good Luck Bill Bloom CardioNet Inc. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFC70C.4E4939E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I checked with Arrow Electronics, all = the Intel=20 flash has been reserved...:((
 
Any other resources?
 
Best regards,
-Ling
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 William = Bloom=20
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:49 = AM
Subject: INTELFlash

LART:
 
Intel Flash, part no. DT28F160F3B95, = was instock=20 yesterday through Arrow Electronics, Inc. a national US = distributor.
: (877) 237-8621
 
Good Luck
 
Bill Bloom
CardioNet Inc.
------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFC70C.4E4939E0-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 27 01:22:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00738 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:22:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00734 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:22:06 +0200 Received: from homer.ueic.com ([209.118.28.10]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13433 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:22:03 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ueic.com (lisa [209.118.28.2]) by homer.ueic.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id KK037CGJ; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: <392F06EA.61D0A6B6@ueic.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:21:14 -0700 From: Bob Campbell Reply-To: Bob-C@writeme.com Organization: Universal Electronics Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: INTELFlash References: <001601bfc721$a36337e0$48b50018@vista1.sdca.home.com> <00c701bfc746$fad78650$6500a8c0@PALMICRO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk That's exactly where I got mine, they told me that it was all allocated but they might be able to let a small amount go for an R&D project. I received all I needed in the mail today. You might want to try again. Be really nice to them. Good Luck. Bob Ling Su wrote: > I checked with Arrow Electronics, all the Intel flash has been reserved...:(( Any other resources? Best regards,-Ling > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Bloom > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 7:49 AM > Subject: INTELFlash > LART: Intel Flash, part no. DT28F160F3B95, was instock yesterday through Arrow Electronics, Inc. a national US distributor. > : (877) 237-8621 > Good Luck Bill BloomCardioNet Inc. > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat May 27 01:40:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00786 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:40:14 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00782 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:40:12 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:36:02 +0200 To: From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART production Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk that's correct On Fri, 26 May 2000, you wrote: > Oh, those plans still exist - but those of us who are interested in > doing this are waiting for the Lart to get through testing before > sinking a lot of money into something that may not work as expected. > Also, the gerbers haven't been released yet for the latest revisions > pending the testing, so we kinda have to wait anyway... Patience - it's > worth the wait. > > Mike > > Brian Kraack wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I've been away for a while, but still getting all the messages. I haven't > > seen any further info from anyone who was planning on building LARTs and > > selling them, or doing a cooperative production run. What's happened with > > these? > > I still want at least one, possibly more. > > > > Has anyone besides the main guys got any of these units built? How do you > > like 'em? > > > > /Brian > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 ------------------------------------------------------- -- Doug Moreen dogman@bitterroot.net AllBoot.Com http://www.allboot.com 814 Priscilla Way Hamilton, MT 59840 406-375-0566 -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 31 14:01:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13854 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:01:21 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13850 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:01:20 +0200 Received: from rjlsystems.com. (rjlsystems.com [209.125.213.150]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14743 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:01:17 +0200 (METDST) Received: from bia.rjlsystems.com by rjlsystems.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10391; Wed, 31 May 2000 07:57:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200005311157.HAA10391@rjlsystems.com.> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:53:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Callahan Reply-To: Barry Callahan Subject: test To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Cc: barryc@rjlsystems.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: Y1jXW7NsNZ6/YMuH9Q3Fjg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I haven't heard anything from the list in the past few days... Just wondering if there's an issue. barry -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed May 31 14:44:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA14006 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:44:31 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14002 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:44:30 +0200 Received: from lumiere by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id OAA12978; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:44:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200005311244.OAA12978@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl> From: Erik Mouw To: barryc@rjlsystems.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Lart List In-Reply-To: <200005311238.IAA10616@rjlsystems.com.> Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs Date: Wed 31 May 2000 14:44:26 +0100 (MDT) X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L X-Mailer: XCmail 1.2devel - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX64) X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/ X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 May 2000 08:34:28 -0400 (EDT), Barry Callahan wrote: > I haven't heard anything from the list in the past few days... > Just wondering if there's an issue. No, there is just no traffic. Erik [leaving for holiday today] -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 2 20:37:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22110 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:37:57 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22106 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:37:56 +0200 Received: from router2.cardio.com (IDENT:root@sd-ppp-266.abac.net [216.55.130.166]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08989 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:37:52 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cardio.com (IDENT:owen@owen.cardio.com [192.168.91.3]) by router2.cardio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28706 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3937FE95.63358061@cardio.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:36:05 -0700 From: Wallace Owen Reply-To: owen@cardionet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: blob - how to load? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We've got 3 LART boards stuffed with components! Now I'm getting ready to burn the bootloader and then Linux into the flash. Is there a HOWTO or readme on how to download the BLOB to the LART? // Wally -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 2 21:03:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22163 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:03:14 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22159 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:03:14 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA22701; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:03:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA12207; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:03:12 +0200 Message-Id: <200006021903.VAA12207@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: blob - how to load? In-Reply-To: <3937FE95.63358061@cardio.com> from Wallace Owen at "Jun 2, 0 11:36:05 am" To: owen@cardionet.com Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:03:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Wallace Owen wrote: > We've got 3 LART boards stuffed with components! Now I'm getting ready > to burn the bootloader and then Linux into the flash. Is there a HOWTO > or readme on how to download the BLOB to the LART? We use a special add-on flash board for that which we first load with blob and then plug it onto the LART low-speed connector (the exact details are described in the LART README file). The easiest way fore you (IMHO) is to get Nicolas Pitre's Flash programmer for the Assabet board, make yourself a parallel port Flash programmer cable and burn blob into Flash. Get Nico's Flash driver at ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ Maybe you'll have to modify the code a bit, I didn't have a thorough look yet. Have a look at the blob Flash routines to get an idea. As for the cable: Adam Wiggins tried to connect the Assabet cable to his PLEB board, but apparently a cable for an SA-1110 doesn't work with a SA-1100. The Assabet cable just has a couple of 100 ohm resistors in the lines, but you'd better use a couple of 3.3 <--> 5V converters. Once you wrote the Flash, you should be able to see the result immediately: if you see "Consider yourself LARTed!" you know it worked. I'll put a tarfile with the latest blob-1.0.7b on the website, so you can also boot linux-2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np*. Erik [who is actually on holidays, but you all know how LART holidays go? right, JDB? ;-)] -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 2 21:15:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22225 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:15:51 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22221 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:15:50 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA22743; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:15:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA12225 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:15:48 +0200 Message-Id: <200006021915.VAA12225@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Announce: blob-1.0.7b To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:15:48 +0200 (CEST) From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, As promised, I just put blob-1.0.7b on the LART website. Get it at: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/ This versions should be used when booting linux-2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np1 and up, though it also works with older kernel versions. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 2 21:27:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22262 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:27:31 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22258 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:27:30 +0200 Received: from mail.xmission.com (root@mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10180 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:27:28 +0200 (METDST) Received: from www by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12xx6M-0004bb-00; Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:27:26 -0600 X-Originating-IP: [209.210.211.17] Subject: Re: blob - how to =?iso-8859-1?q?load=3F?= From: Chris Curtis Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl User-Agent: IMHO/0.97.1 (Webmail for Roxen) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3937FE95.63358061@cardio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:27:26 -700 To: owen@cardionet.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > We've got 3 LART boards stuffed with components! Now I'm getting ready > to burn the bootloader and then Linux into the flash. Is there a HOWTO > or readme on how to download the BLOB to the LART? > Lucky. :-) --Chris (anxiously waiting to have the same question) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 2 21:59:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22327 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:59:32 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22323 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:59:23 +0200 Received: from router2.cardio.com (IDENT:root@sd-ppp-266.abac.net [216.55.130.166]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10910 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:59:19 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cardio.com (IDENT:owen@owen.cardio.com [192.168.91.3]) by router2.cardio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28744; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <393811C2.98307F0D@cardio.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:57:54 -0700 From: Wallace Owen Reply-To: owen@cardionet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blob - how to load? References: <200006021903.VAA12207@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Has anyone made the necessary changes to Nico's flash driver to make it work for LART yet? // Wally Erik Mouw wrote: > > Wallace Owen wrote: > > We've got 3 LART boards stuffed with components! Now I'm getting ready > > to burn the bootloader and then Linux into the flash. Is there a HOWTO > > or readme on how to download the BLOB to the LART? > > We use a special add-on flash board for that which we first load with > blob and then plug it onto the LART low-speed connector (the exact > details are described in the LART README file). > > The easiest way fore you (IMHO) is to get Nicolas Pitre's Flash programmer > for the Assabet board, make yourself a parallel port Flash programmer > cable and burn blob into Flash. Get Nico's Flash driver at > > ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/ > > Maybe you'll have to modify the code a bit, I didn't have a thorough look > yet. Have a look at the blob Flash routines to get an idea. > > As for the cable: Adam Wiggins tried to connect the Assabet cable to his > PLEB board, but apparently a cable for an SA-1110 doesn't work with a > SA-1100. The Assabet cable just has a couple of 100 ohm resistors in > the lines, but you'd better use a couple of 3.3 <--> 5V converters. > > Once you wrote the Flash, you should be able to see the result immediately: > if you see "Consider yourself LARTed!" you know it worked. > > I'll put a tarfile with the latest blob-1.0.7b on the website, so you > can also boot linux-2.3.99-pre8-rmk1-np*. > > Erik > [who is actually on holidays, but you all know how LART holidays go? > right, JDB? ;-)] > > -- > J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department > of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, > Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands > Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl > WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 3 08:21:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA23526 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:21:10 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23522 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:21:08 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20651; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:21:03 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 16:19:35 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Erik Mouw Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 16:19:35 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: owen@cardionet.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blob - how to load? In-Reply-To: <200006021903.VAA12207@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > > Maybe you'll have to modify the code a bit, I didn't have a thorough look > yet. Have a look at the blob Flash routines to get an idea. > > As for the cable: Adam Wiggins tried to connect the Assabet cable to his > PLEB board, but apparently a cable for an SA-1110 doesn't work with a > SA-1100. The Assabet cable just has a couple of 100 ohm resistors in > the lines, but you'd better use a couple of 3.3 <--> 5V converters. I think the problem with this is that on the Assabet there are 2 CPLD's in the JTAG chain as well. I'm not certain but I beleive these are 5 volt tollerent divices and probably load the PC Parallel port lines high enough to drop down to acceptable voltages (i can't find anywhere to probe the JTAG voltage levels on the Assabet. In other words the whole 100ohm resister thing is a really dodgy hack. Its fairly easy to just set up a 3.3 volt buffer between teh PC port and the LART though. Someones working on the JTAG stuff I started but I think they are busy until july, likewise for me. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 3 12:07:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23893 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:07:43 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23889 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:07:41 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23441 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:07:39 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N925P007.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.135]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22106 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:06:21 +0200 Message-ID: <3938D8DF.66F8A8C9@aon.at> Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 12:07:27 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: blob - how to load? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Someones working on the JTAG stuff I started but I think they are > busy until july, likewise for me. Jep, we are busy, soldering and typing... greetings, olaf ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Jun 4 22:03:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26806 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:03:19 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26802 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:03:17 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20772 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:03:15 +0200 (METDST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.150.199]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000604200230.SVHP28251.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 13:02:30 -0700 Message-ID: <393AB6DA.3C590BFA@home.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:06:50 -0700 From: Wallace Owen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bkraack@siscom.net CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: LART production References: <392E1855.5ED0B49A@pandora.be> <392E97B6.53388673@aon.at> <392EE4BF.4558C5BA@siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We've had three units built, which we plan on using for prototyping the peripheral interfaces and to get the toolchain in place for target development. We selected LART for four reasons: The LART is more in line with the form factor we are looking for, the LART design is open and GPL, it's a very clean design and the Assabet boards appear to be on allocation. // Wally Brian Kraack wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I've been away for a while, but still getting all the messages. I haven't > seen any further info from anyone who was planning on building LARTs and > selling them, or doing a cooperative production run. What's happened with > these? > I still want at least one, possibly more. > > Has anyone besides the main guys got any of these units built? How do you > like 'em? > > /Brian > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 6 00:45:05 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA30386 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:45:05 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA30382 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:45:05 +0200 Received: from s-mail4.hanmail.net ([211.32.117.64]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11765 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:44:56 +0200 (METDST) Received: from www7.hanmail.net ([211.32.117.27]) by s-mail4.hanmail.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA32432; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:37:39 +0900 Received: (from hanadmin@localhost) by www7.hanmail.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA24092; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:40:57 +0900 (KST) X-Originating-IP: [207.179.37.54] From: "¹éº´±â" Reply-To: "¹éº´±â" To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: How to download ramdisk...? X-Mailer: Daum Web Mailer 1.0 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 07:40:57 KST Message-Id: <20000606074057.HM.60000000000aJhQ@www7.hanmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hello... Now I'm using a blob-1.07, and minicom. I successfully download kernel as "uuencode zImage zImage > /dev/ttyS0". But I don't know how to download ramdisk... I tried like kernel download, but It failed. Any information makes me thanks... Nice day. ByungGi Baek. ================================================== weapon100@hanmail.net ================================================== No. 1 ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀÏ³Ý Áö±¸ÃÌ ÇÑ±Û °Ë»ö¼­ºñ½º Daum FIREBALL http://www.daum.net -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 6 06:57:28 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA31287 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:57:28 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA31283 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:57:26 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA18390 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:57:24 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cogeco-179-20.cgocable.net (HELO co484059a) (24.141.179.20) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2000 21:51:02 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Reply-To: From: "Randy Glenn" To: Subject: JTAG info? Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:50:40 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There's been a lot of discussion on JTAG recently, and I find myself wanting to know more about it (as I know nothing about it right now - what do you expect from a teenager?). Can anyone point me to some Web resources to explain it a bit? Sorry if this message annoys you for some reason, but please don't flame me if you find my question dumb. -Randy Glenn PICxpertANTISPAM@techie.com (remove ANTISPAM) http://i.am/PICxpert "My Finder has died of fits, chokin', My Finder has quite ceased to be. OS X's new Finder looks broken, Please bring back my Finder to me!" - A concerned Mac user __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 6 11:49:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA32055 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:49:10 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA32050; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:49:06 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:48:49 +0200 To: From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: JTAG info? Cc: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 06:50 +0200 06-06-2000, Randy Glenn wrote: >There's been a lot of discussion on JTAG recently, and I find myself wanting >to know more about it (as I know nothing about it right now - what do you >expect from a teenager?). Can anyone point me to some Web resources to >explain it a bit? See http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/jtag/c3.pdf or chapter 16 of the SA-1100 Technical Reference Manual. JDB. -- I may be obsessive-compulsive, but it's NOT a disorder ! -- Paul S. Sawyer in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 6 20:06:12 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00696 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:06:12 +0200 Received: from ns2.tudelft.nl (ns2.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.65]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00692 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:06:11 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhost1.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-33 #42432) with ESMTP id <0FVQ00IJDVMAL5@mailhost1.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:06:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from aon.at (N922P011.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.43]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA150012 for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:03:36 +0200 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:04:43 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Subject: Re: JTAG info? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <393D3D3B.5492FBBE@aon.at> Organization: Me ? Organized ? MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Randy Glenn wrote: > Can anyone point me to some Web resources to explain it a bit? In addition to the file JDB mentioned, you can also look into the datasheets of the 74LVT8980 an 74LVT8996 from TI. Somewhere on the TI site there is also a funny JTAG simulator. The docs for the ARM7TDMI processor core are also a good source (look for the "Debug architecture" pdf). greetings, olaf ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 6 21:24:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00888 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:24:59 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00883; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:24:56 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:24:40 +0200 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: JTAG info? Cc: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Randy Glenn wrote: > >> Can anyone point me to some Web resources to explain it a bit? > >In addition to the file JDB mentioned, you can also >look into the datasheets of the 74LVT8980 an 74LVT8996 from TI. >Somewhere on the TI site there is also a funny JTAG simulator. >The docs for the ARM7TDMI processor core are also a good >source (look for the "Debug architecture" pdf). More docs on Flash programming thru JTAG (in no particular order): http://developer.intel.com/design/flcomp/applnots/292186.htm http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/applnots/278205.htm http://support.intel.com/support/processors/embedded/intel386/2898.htm These also cover JTAG. JDB. -- Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 7 11:00:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02858 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:00:23 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02854 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:00:21 +0200 From: chester@linux.org.tw Received: from linux.org.tw (IDENT:root@[140.109.13.42]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03995 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:00:11 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (chester@localhost) by linux.org.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16701; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:02:28 +0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:02:28 +0800 (CST) To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl cc: chester@linux.org.tw Subject: Debug question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi..All, I got some debbug question about kernel. Usually,if you wirte a device driver and test it,will write a statement like this --- #ifdef DEBUG #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) printk( #x...) #else #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) #endif ---- And insert DEBUG_PRINTK to that you want to show message,as far as i know,if i want to condition compile my program in user-land ,i will add gcc -DDEBUG xx.c in Makefile. But let me confuse is: where can i add this to debug kernel ?? in linux/Makefiel --> CFLAGS ?? or else ?? Because add condition to linux/Makefile,make this global for all,it will affect anoter source code,how can i do ?? Thanks, Chester -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 7 12:11:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03075 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:11:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03071 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:11:05 +0200 Received: from vasquez.zip.com.au (IDENT:mail@vasquez.zip.com.au [203.12.97.41]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07413 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:11:01 +0200 (METDST) Received: from saavik.ian.testers.net.au (root@cartman40.zip.com.au [61.8.20.168]) by vasquez.zip.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15618; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:10:07 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ian@localhost) by saavik.ian.testers.net.au (8.10.1/8.10.1/Debian 8.10.1-1) id e57AA6q03213; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:10:06 +1000 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:10:02 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Tester To: chester@linux.org.tw cc: LART Mailing list Subject: Re: Debug question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 chester@linux.org.tw wrote: > Usually,if you wirte a device driver and test it,will write a statement > like this > --- > #ifdef DEBUG > #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) printk( #x...) > #else > #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) > #endif > ---- [snip] > But let me confuse is: where can i add this to debug kernel ?? > in linux/Makefiel --> CFLAGS ?? or else ?? > Because add condition to linux/Makefile,make this global for all,it will > affect anoter source code,how can i do ?? You could give it a unique name like CHESTERDEV_DEBUG, then it shouldn't intefere with anything else. You could even add it to the Config.in file for the section. Then it would show up when you do a make {config|menuconfig|xconfig}, and you wouldn't have to edit the top Makefile. bye -- 8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<-------- Ian Tester *8)# \7\ LINUX: because geeks will find a way imroy@zipworld.com.au \7\ http://www.zipworld.com.au/~imroy -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 7 14:50:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03483 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:50:59 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03476 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:50:57 +0200 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.fiftyone.com [208.225.80.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15424 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:50:54 +0200 (METDST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-167.ar51.net [208.225.80.167]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13502; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:50:34 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Sutherland To: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: RE: Debug question Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:50:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Hi..All, > I got some debbug question about kernel. > Usually,if you wirte a device driver and test it,will write a > statement > like this > --- > #ifdef DEBUG > #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) printk( #x...) > #else > #define DEBUG_PRINTK( x...) > #endif > ---- > And insert DEBUG_PRINTK to that you want to show message,as far as i > know,if i want to condition compile my program in user-land > ,i will add > gcc -DDEBUG xx.c in Makefile. > But let me confuse is: where can i add this to debug kernel ?? > in linux/Makefiel --> CFLAGS ?? or else ?? > Because add condition to linux/Makefile,make this global for > all,it will > affect anoter source code,how can i do ?? > > Thanks, > Chester Generally I just insert a #define DEBUG 0 right in the source file I'm interested in debugging. Doing it globally or in the local directory's Makefile usually generates a LOT more debug output than I'm currently interested in. //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 7 17:13:45 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03931 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:13:45 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03927 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:13:44 +0200 Received: from smtp8.xs4all.nl (smtp8.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.51]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23340 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:13:42 +0200 (METDST) Received: from technt.technolution.nl (technolution.nl [194.109.83.58]) by smtp8.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19425 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:12:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from harry95.technolution.nl (132.147.111.44) by technt.technolution.nl (Worldmail 1.3.167) for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; 7 Jun 2000 17:10:02 +0200 Message-ID: <003e01bfd091$eafabf00$2c6f9384@technolution.nl> From: "Wouter" To: Subject: compiler cannot create executables Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:06:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi I want to build a cross-compiler for arm-linux on a x86 host. I have downloaded all the stuff to build the compiler from the lart site en I have used Chris Rutter's description. I ran "make [languages="c"]" and got the following checking for sys/resource.h... yes checking for sys/wait.h that is POSIX.1 compatible... no checking whether the C compiler (/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -g -O2 ) works... no configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables. make[1]: Entering directory /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/arm-linux/libio' test x"no" != xyes ||\ /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -c -g -O2 -I. -I. -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO iogetline.c -o pic/iogetline.o /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -c -g -O2 -I. -I. -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO iogetline.c In file included from iogetline.c:26: libioP.h:30: errno.h: No such file or directory In file included from iolibio.h:1, from libioP.h:47, from iogetline.c:26: libio.h:30: _G_config.h: No such file or directory iogetline.c:27: string.h: No such file or directory make[1]: *** [iogetline.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/arm-linux/libio' make: *** [all-target-libio] Error 2 It seems that the C compiler is not able to create executables. Can anybody advise on what steps should I take? Thanks, Wouter -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 04:56:06 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA05651 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 04:56:06 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA05647 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 04:56:05 +0200 Received: from hotmail.com (f288.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.82]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA16068 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 04:56:03 +0200 (METDST) Received: (qmail 69537 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jun 2000 02:55:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20000608025527.69536.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.92.41.61 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Jun 2000 19:55:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.92.41.61] From: "Erik Chow" To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: gerber files for V4 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:55:27 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk When will the gerber files for v4 of Lart be released? Erik ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 11:36:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06424 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:36:04 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06419; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:36:02 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000608025527.69536.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:35:53 +0200 To: "Erik Chow" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: gerber files for V4 Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 04:55 +0200 08-06-2000, Erik Chow wrote: >When will the gerber files for v4 of Lart be released? That's a FAQ. JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 11:47:07 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06490 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:47:07 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06486; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:47:06 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:46:57 +0200 To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Flushing I/D caches from userspace Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? I'm developing a fixed point FFT library, and I want to do timings with both hot and cold cache. The only way I can think of is to walk an array the size of the D cache, and write a dummy function that fills the I cache, but that seems a tad hackish. Any thoughts ? JDB. [and yes, the library will be [L]GPL'd once it works properly] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 11:58:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06542 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:58:14 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06538 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:58:13 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29538 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:58:11 +0200 (METDST) Received: from wea ([24.114.126.210]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000608095733.ZCEI18275.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@wea> for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 02:57:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bfd130$0ec32a50$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> From: "yassino" To: Subject: First Contact ! Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:58:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi. My name is yassin. I work for a control software company in canada & I love linux althought i am new to it !! Let me first say "Chapeau" u have done a great job guys. I discovered your project last night and i am still up on it (check the time!!). Here is the reason : We might be interested in using the lart for our applications. The unit will serve as a host to control our equipment. I specially like the idea of making the devices work in a cluster. Today i am going to present this to my superiors. But i need to clear this first: 1) I understand we have to share hardware modifications but do we also have to share software running on the Lart ? I know they will be glad to share their hardware findings since the company is not in that line of business per say but it will be a hard sell to make the software also "Libre". 2) I have seen that e-cos is distributed on a different license. Do we have to port e-cos to get around this ? how much work is that ? 3) Is X ported on the device yet ? or can u get more tty sessions ? Once again your project is kewl !! -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 12:36:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06651 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:36:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06647 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:36:36 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01903 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:36:34 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388847480D; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:34:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:34:35 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? I'm The way we used to do it under RISC OS was to write out enough data to disparate pages that we could be sure that the cache had been flushed. It's not a very smart way of doing things but hey... kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 12:45:23 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06694 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:45:23 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06689; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:45:21 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01bfd130$0ec32a50$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:44:55 +0200 To: "yassino" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: First Contact ! Cc: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 11:58 +0200 08-06-2000, yassino wrote: >1) I understand we have to share hardware modifications That's not necessary, see the license at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/LICENSE . Roughly said you can do anything as long as you (a) preserve the copyright notices and (b) don't sue us. That being said, all hardware modifications are gladly accepted. > but do we also have >to share software running on the Lart ? I know they will be glad to share >their hardware findings since the company is not in that line of business >per say but it will be a hard sell to make the software also "Libre". No. It's just as with the Linux kernel: any userspace applications (ie your control software) can be under any license you like. >2) I have seen that e-cos is distributed on a different license. Do we have >to port e-cos to get around this ? how much work is that ? You could port eCos; I believe at least one list member has done this or is working on it. For the licensing I don't see how it makes a difference; I don't know eCos or your application well enough to make a comparison of technical merits of eCos vs Linux for your app. >3) Is X ported on the device yet ? or can u get more tty sessions ? X on fbdev works on ARM; I haven't actually tried it but I don't see problems (it's somewhere on my ToDo-list). JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 12:48:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06721 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:48:17 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06715; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:48:02 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:47:42 +0200 To: Kira Brown From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace Cc: "J.D. Bakker" , linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 12:34 +0200 08-06-2000, Kira Brown wrote: >On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? I'm > >The way we used to do it under RISC OS was to write out enough data to >disparate pages that we could be sure that the cache had been flushed. > >It's not a very smart way of doing things but hey... On a processor with an SA-1 core this won't work as the caches are allocate-on-read. I thought this was the norm for ARM ? JDB. -- "There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering." It starts with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of the non-gaseous byproducts." (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 12:51:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06747 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:51:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06743 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:51:37 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02893 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:51:33 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF957480D; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:49:30 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:49:30 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 12:34 +0200 08-06-2000, Kira Brown wrote: > >On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? I'm > > > >The way we used to do it under RISC OS was to write out enough data to > >disparate pages that we could be sure that the cache had been flushed. > > > >It's not a very smart way of doing things but hey... > > On a processor with an SA-1 core this won't work as the caches are > allocate-on-read. I thought this was the norm for ARM ? That was what we did to flush the write buffer- if we didn't do that regularly, we couldn't cache the video RAM without artifacts. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 19:51:48 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07979 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:51:48 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07975 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:51:46 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-65.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22887 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:51:44 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (24.64.224.111.ab.wave.home.com [24.64.224.111]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00775 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:51:04 -0600 Message-ID: <393FE045.755784DB@montage.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:04:53 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Intel SA1110/SA1111 evaluation board + blob? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2359A77FBB2BADDC4A2F8CB0" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2359A77FBB2BADDC4A2F8CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi; I was wondering if I can install blob 1.07b into the flash on my sa1110 eval board from Intel? Blob seems to be very feature rich, and looks like it will make my life a whole lot easier in terms of loading new images, ramdisks, etc. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers Chris Price --------------2359A77FBB2BADDC4A2F8CB0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------2359A77FBB2BADDC4A2F8CB0-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 8 23:54:18 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08818 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:54:18 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08814 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:54:16 +0200 Received: from exchange.dlstestworks.com ([216.94.170.5]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00913 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:54:14 +0200 (METDST) Received: by exchange.dlstestworks.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:52:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Mohamed, Yassin" To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: do u speak bluetooth Mr Lart ? Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:52:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFD193.DD7E2936" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD193.DD7E2936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Did anyone thaugth about making the lart speak bluetooth ? I do not know much about hardware (darn thing) but a preliminar investigation has taken me to this NI all in one chip. http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMX5001.html I am not sure if you guys are/have familiar/plans with bluetooth but it looks like it is mandatory for any descent handheld device in the future to support it. What it basically does is allow you to connect to foreign devices whithout a cable. The mouse/keyb cable are the things of the past. I also know that there is a port of bluetooth on linux. Is anyone interested in putting things together ? ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD193.DD7E2936 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable do u speak bluetooth Mr Lart ?

Did anyone thaugth about making the = lart speak bluetooth ? I do not know much about hardware (darn thing) = but a preliminar investigation has taken me to this NI all in one = chip. http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMX5001.html<= /U>

I am not sure if you guys are/have = familiar/plans with bluetooth but it looks like it is mandatory for any = descent handheld device in the future to support it. What it basically = does is allow you to connect to foreign devices whithout a cable. The = mouse/keyb cable are the things of the past. I also know that there is = a port of bluetooth on linux. Is anyone interested in putting things = together ?

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD193.DD7E2936-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 00:14:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08917 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:14:25 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08913 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:14:24 +0200 Received: from ns.kaybee.org (IDENT:root@r70h102.res.gatech.edu [128.61.70.102]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01629 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:14:21 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (rob@localhost) by ns.kaybee.org (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20441; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:59:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: rob To: "Mohamed, Yassin" cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: Re: do u speak bluetooth Mr Lart ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk i'm trying to get some bluetooth going with linux. the easiest way looks like one of the ericsson modules. it takes rs232 or usb and pcm audio. i'm trying to get pricing etc for this. rob On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Mohamed, Yassin wrote: > Did anyone thaugth about making the lart speak bluetooth ? I do not know > much about hardware (darn thing) but a preliminar investigation has taken me > to this NI all in one chip. http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMX5001.html > I am not sure if you guys are/have familiar/plans with bluetooth but it > looks like it is mandatory for any descent handheld device in the future to > support it. What it basically does is allow you to connect to foreign > devices whithout a cable. The mouse/keyb cable are the things of the past. I > also know that there is a port of bluetooth on linux. Is anyone interested > in putting things together ? > ---- Rob Melby Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 01:04:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09246 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:04:17 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09242 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:04:14 +0200 Received: from mail.selec.net (mail.selec.net [209.223.60.5]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02807 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:04:11 +0200 (METDST) Received: from selec.net (rdu145.selec.net [209.223.61.145]) by mail.selec.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-43555U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA283 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:04:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3940263A.3558F33A@selec.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 18:03:22 -0500 From: John Kocurek X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Bluetooth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Bluetooth has some nice characteristics. But, so far, it is not going to be economic for the Lart. Do you think that flash is hard to come by? Just try to get some of the Bluetooth stuff, my company is having problems getting suppliers to talk to us because we are only going to use a few thousand a month. John Kocurek -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 02:44:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09424 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:44:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09420 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:44:07 +0200 Received: from xanadu.gn.com (modemcable248.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net [24.200.137.248]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05115 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:44:06 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (nico@localhost) by xanadu.gn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11584; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:42:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: xanadu.gn.com: nico owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicolas Pitre X-Sender: nico@xanadu.gn.com To: "J.D. Bakker" cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? Isn't a syscall for that? Nicolas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 04:10:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09690 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:10:31 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09684 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:10:30 +0200 From: jasonb@ce.com.au Received: from intsvr3.ce.com.au (intsvr3.ce.com.au [203.23.60.73]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06457 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:10:15 +0200 (METDST) Received: from intsvr2.in.ce.com.au ([172.16.1.156]) by intsvr3.ce.com.au with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 130E2S-0001Xx-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:56:48 +1000 Received: from smtpd by intsvr2.in.ce.com.au with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 130E2T-0002ox-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:56:49 +1000 Received: from UNKNOWN(172.16.1.155), claiming to be "intsvr1.in.ce.com.au" via SMTP by intsvr2.in.ce.com.au, id smtpda10835; Fri Jun 9 11:56:35 2000 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:56:35 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: jasonb@intsvr1.in.ce.com.au To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Board Manufacture ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi all, I have looked at having a number of Lart boards made up here in Australia, and have found the cost to be fairly high (AU$1500+ - approx $800US) for small runs of boards. Does anybody know of: a) Someone who is planning a run of boards and may like to here from somebody else to split the cost with. b) There would be enough interest to justify having the boards made in Australia. c) Other board manufacturers that may already be setup for the Lart, or offer a more advantageous pricing scheme for small runs ? Thanks Jason. --- Jason Ball Electronic Commerce Specialist Corporate Express Australia Ltd Phone: +61 2 9335 0374 Fax: +61 2 9335 0753 Email: jason.ball@ce.com.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 04:09:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09678 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:09:47 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09674 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:09:46 +0200 Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06452 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:09:44 +0200 (METDST) Received: from winders ([208.189.13.89]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FVV001M77419Z@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:04:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:02:28 -0500 From: Kelly Adams Subject: Re: do u speak bluetooth Mr Lart ? To: rob , "Mohamed, Yassin" Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <001701bfd1b6$c3e15200$1479a8c0@ads.thunderbroom.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 References: X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I was looking at the PCMCIA bus and using the guts of one of the Motorola cards. Since I'm just prototyping (read= hopefully $10,000 will fall from the sky), these seems more reasonable than trying to get components. Those guy won't even answer the phone unless you want 6 figure quantities. In my mind, that's not what LART is about, anyway. Too bad none of the universities have stepped in and made a consortium that pumped out a few thousand boards. Alright, I'm off my soapbox now. -Kelly Adams > i'm trying to get some bluetooth going with linux. the easiest way looks > like one of the ericsson modules. it takes rs232 or usb and pcm > audio. i'm trying to get pricing etc for this. > rob > > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Mohamed, Yassin wrote: > > > Did anyone thaugth about making the lart speak bluetooth ? I do not know > > much about hardware (darn thing) but a preliminar investigation has taken me > > to this NI all in one chip. http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMX5001.html > > I am not sure if you guys are/have familiar/plans with bluetooth but it > > looks like it is mandatory for any descent handheld device in the future to > > support it. What it basically does is allow you to connect to foreign > > devices whithout a cable. The mouse/keyb cable are the things of the past. I > > also know that there is a port of bluetooth on linux. Is anyone interested > > in putting things together ? > > > > ---- > Rob Melby -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 05:14:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09886 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:14:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09882 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:14:06 +0200 Received: from vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au (firewall-user@vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au [203.61.137.33]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07462 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:13:57 +0200 (METDST) Received: by vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au; id NAA07122; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:12:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from aumelvrlms1.roadshow.com.au(203.15.16.16) by vrlgateway.roadshow.com.au via smap (V5.0) id xma007105; Fri, 9 Jun 00 13:12:15 +1000 Received: from mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net (mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net) by aumelvrlms1.roadshow.com.au (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:12:11 +1000 Received: (from robin@localhost) by mel-ho-lx-19361.froosh.net (8.11.0.Beta1/8.11.0.Beta1/Debian 8.11.0-1) id e593CJV19237; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:12:20 +1000 From: Robin Frousheger Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:12:19 +1000 To: jasonb@ce.com.au Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Board Manufacture ? Message-ID: <20000609131219.A17001@froosh.net> Mail-Followup-To: jasonb@ce.com.au, lart@lart.tudelft.nl References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from jasonb@ce.com.au on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:56:35AM +1000 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:56:35AM +1000, jasonb@ce.com.au wrote: > I have looked at having a number of Lart boards made up here in Australia, > and have found the cost to be fairly high (AU$1500+ - approx $800US) for > small runs of boards. Ack :( WAY too high at the moment... And that's just the board - no components? > a) Someone who is planning a run of boards and may like to here from > somebody else to split the cost with. YES ... if we can get it low enough cost ... There is a bunch of Oz ppl interested in LART boards/kits, but to date no-one else seems to have done much work on it. (I'm also waiting for rev4) Chow, Robin. --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjlAYJIACgkQatXtlwW2nhkFrQCfW7F4lG35y/Va+ma+qkbxDejp HjUAmwR9E7RBN6cUt1GIz+PrvaHheeat =fvUp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 05:19:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09910 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:19:38 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09906 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:19:37 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-65.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07547 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:19:35 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (24.64.224.111.ab.wave.home.com [24.64.224.111]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26132 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:18:42 -0600 Message-ID: <39406552.36B54B95@montage.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:32:34 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Intel SA1110/SA1111 evaluation board + blob? References: <393FE045.755784DB@montage.ca> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D70B53404EF27130D0925425" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D70B53404EF27130D0925425 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone in or close to the Blob development team let me know one way or the other if Blob will work on a SA1110 eval board? I hate to sound demanding, sorry if I am -> I just have a very tight timeframe on a project and would love to promote and use Blob (think of Blob in a quarter-million public access terminals ;) ). We are also evaluating the LART v4 boards for use in our project. Cheers Chris Chris Price wrote: > > Hi; > > I was wondering if I can install blob 1.07b into the flash on my sa1110 > eval board from Intel? Blob seems to be very feature rich, and looks > like it will make my life a whole lot easier in terms of loading new > images, ramdisks, etc. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Cheers > > Chris Price --------------D70B53404EF27130D0925425 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------D70B53404EF27130D0925425-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 05:23:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09930 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:23:20 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09926 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:23:19 +0200 Received: from web3905.mail.yahoo.com (web3905.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.201]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA07613 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:23:16 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <20000609032140.1354.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [150.150.59.154] by web3905.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:21:40 JST Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:21:40 +0900 (JST) From: =?euc-kr?q?Ju=20Cheolmin?= Subject: Re: do u speak bluetooth Mr Lart ? To: rob , "Mohamed, Yassin" Cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Try this. http://www.cambridgesiliconradio.com/ price < $20 (??) this is ALL-IN-ONE.(Bluecore 01) <== RADIO + BB + HOST interface(SPI,SERIAL,PCM) +ram --- rob wrote: > > i'm trying to get some bluetooth going with linux. > the easiest way looks > like one of the ericsson modules. it takes rs232 or > usb and pcm > audio. i'm trying to get pricing etc for this. > rob > > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Mohamed, Yassin wrote: > > > Did anyone thaugth about making the lart speak > bluetooth ? I do not know > > much about hardware (darn thing) but a preliminar > investigation has taken me > > to this NI all in one chip. > http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMX5001.html > > I am not sure if you guys are/have familiar/plans > with bluetooth but it > > looks like it is mandatory for any descent > handheld device in the future to > > support it. What it basically does is allow you to > connect to foreign > > devices whithout a cable. The mouse/keyb cable are > the things of the past. I > > also know that there is a port of bluetooth on > linux. Is anyone interested > > in putting things together ? > > > > ---- > Rob Melby > Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, > 30332 > uucp: > ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a > Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line > "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _____________________________________________________________________ ¾ßÈÄ! ¸ÞÀÏ ID·Î ¸¶ÀÌ ¾ßÈÄ!¸¦ ²Ù¸çº¸¼¼¿ä. Áõ±Ç, ´º½ºÅ¬¸®ÇÎ, ÀÏÁ¤°ü¸®, ºÏ¸¶Å©... ³»°Ô ÇÊ¿äÇÑ °Íµé¸¸ °ñ¶ó ¸ÅÀÏ ÀÚµ¿À¸·Î ¾÷µ¥ÀÌÆ®! http://kr.my.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 06:15:25 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10034 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:15:25 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10030 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:15:24 +0200 From: jasonb@ce.com.au Received: from intsvr3.ce.com.au (intsvr3.ce.com.au [203.23.60.73]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08305 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:15:15 +0200 (METDST) Received: from intsvr2.in.ce.com.au ([172.16.1.156]) by intsvr3.ce.com.au with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 130GBz-0003ee-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:14:47 +1000 Received: from smtpd by intsvr2.in.ce.com.au with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 130GBz-0005VN-00; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:14:47 +1000 Received: from UNKNOWN(172.16.1.155), claiming to be "intsvr1.in.ce.com.au" via SMTP by intsvr2.in.ce.com.au, id smtpda21153; Fri Jun 9 14:14:37 2000 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:14:37 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: jasonb@intsvr1.in.ce.com.au To: Robin Frousheger cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Board Manufacture ? In-Reply-To: <20000609131219.A17001@froosh.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Robin Frousheger wrote: > Ack :( WAY too high at the moment... And that's just the board - no components? My thoughts exactely - and no, that doesn't include components. > > > a) Someone who is planning a run of boards and may like to here from > > somebody else to split the cost with. > > YES ... if we can get it low enough cost ... > > > There is a bunch of Oz ppl interested in LART boards/kits, but to date no-one else seems to have done much work on it. (I'm also waiting for rev4) > Maybe if there are enough we could look at it. Then my only challenge is to see how hard it is to do a surface-mount project without the fancy equipment. (I'm just a home-based hobbyist with some ideas this board would be perfect for). Cheers Jason. --- Jason Ball Electronic Commerce Specialist Corporate Express Australia Ltd Phone: +61 2 9335 0374 Fax: +61 2 9335 0753 Email: jason.ball@ce.com.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 07:54:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10175 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:54:34 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10170; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:54:32 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA09844; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:54:28 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:53:02 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: "J.D. Bakker" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:53:02 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there any way to do cache flushes from userspace under ARMLinux ? I'm > developing a fixed point FFT library, and I want to do timings with both > hot and cold cache. The only way I can think of is to walk an array the > size of the D cache, and write a dummy function that fills the I cache, but > that seems a tad hackish. Allowing user space to flush the caches is can lead to real problems. Maybe with a /dev/ to allow priviledged users but in general you don't want any old user to do it. > > Any thoughts ? > > JDB. > [and yes, the library will be [L]GPL'd once it works properly] > > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 11:38:40 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10766 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:38:40 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10761; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:38:33 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:38:15 +0200 To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace Cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 07:53 +0200 09-06-2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > Allowing user space to flush the caches is can lead to real >problems. Such as ? Considering that a context switch to a process with a different VM context causes a cache flush anyway, I can't imagine what harm it would do. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 11:48:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10807 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:48:59 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10802; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:48:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39406552.36B54B95@montage.ca> References: <393FE045.755784DB@montage.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:48:35 +0200 To: Chris Price From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Intel SA1110/SA1111 evaluation board + blob? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, Erik Mouw Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 05:32 +0200 09-06-2000, Chris Price wrote: > Can someone in or close to the Blob development team That would be me. > let me know one >way or the other if Blob will work on a SA1110 eval board? We don't have an Assabet ourselves, but I know people who do have generated patches and submitted them to Erik Mouw (the blob maintainer). I am pretty sure that blob will work with those patches (and possibly some small tweaks). > I hate to >sound demanding, sorry if I am -> I just have a very tight timeframe on >a project and would love to promote and use Blob (think of Blob in a >quarter-million public access terminals ;) ). Trouble is that Erik is on vacation in the US, and thus doesn't read his mail as frequently as usual. I on the other hand don't pay too much attention to blob-related issues, knowing Erik will handle them. I hope this is enough info. If you really need the patch by yesterday let me know and I'll see what I can do. HTH, Jan-Derk Bakker. -- "We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if that fixes the problem." --Peter Gutmann in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 14:24:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11295 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:47 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11291 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:46 +0200 Received: from idev.wintech-ebiz.com (wintec.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.216.55]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26146 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:24:41 +0200 (METDST) Received: from Enterprise (203.44.106.146 [203.44.106.146]) by idev.wintech-ebiz.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id MMRPCGBG; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:33:54 +1000 Message-ID: <200006092225180880.122DCD32@mail.wintech-ebiz.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Lite Version 3.10.03.02 (3) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 22:25:18 +1000 From: "Kai Y Yum" To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Board Manufacture ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id OAA11292 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi, Speaking for myself, I would be interested in a rev 4 LART board, if it's made sometime between now and next year. I've ordered a rev3 board, still waiting for the postal to deliver goods. Regarding components, I've emailed Precision circuits in Victoria, and their reply was that for the 208pin SA1100, it costs $50AUS to make a stencil for the chip, then $25AUS to run it through the reflow oven. The stencil cost is one-off. IMHO, it would be safer for someone professional to handle the soldering of the SA1100 itself. Kai k.yum@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au University of Melbourne *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 9/06/00 at 11:56 AM jasonb@ce.com.au wrote: >Hi all, > >I have looked at having a number of Lart boards made up here in Australia, >and have found the cost to be fairly high (AU$1500+ - approx $800US) for >small runs of boards. > >Does anybody know of: > >a) Someone who is planning a run of boards and may like to here from >somebody else to split the cost with. > >b) There would be enough interest to justify having the boards made in >Australia. > >c) Other board manufacturers that may already be setup for the Lart, or >offer a more advantageous pricing scheme for small runs ? > >Thanks >Jason. > >--- >Jason Ball >Electronic Commerce Specialist >Corporate Express Australia Ltd >Phone: +61 2 9335 0374 Fax: +61 2 9335 0753 >Email: jason.ball@ce.com.au > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 18:37:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA13006 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:37:55 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13002 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:37:53 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.pa.home.com [24.12.106.194]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07263 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:37:50 +0200 (METDST) Received: from celery ([24.2.212.168]) by mail.rdc2.pa.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000609163415.GFJU10629.mail.rdc2.pa.home.com@celery> for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:34:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003901bfd230$04e45800$0601a8c0@celery.home.com> Reply-To: "Raymond Jones" From: "Raymond Jones" To: Subject: economics of LART, Intel SA in general Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:30:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I have a question which I hope is not too far off topic. I think that it is of concern to anyone who is interested in doing something other than play with LART. When I first came across the LART webpage (thanks!!), I was really excited. This is because a LOT of the setup work for embedded design was done (design, implement, test a prototype, get toolchain, get OS running) and the group was nice enough (very nice enough) to make it available to everyone. Also, StrongArm seems powerful enough for most embedded applications and the power consumption is supposed to be attractive. But, I did some quick checks of the economics of employing LART in something other than personal and/or educational toys. It appears that this Intel part is *quite* expensive for what you are getting. Obviously in single quantities, it doesnt matter "too" much what is the cost. But, I'm seeing >$85** in single quantities maybe dropping to (who knows?) $20-$35 in high quantities. That seems very expensive to me for embedded applications. I normally do a lot of work with DSP's, and these parts (which I think probably have a lot more computing horsepower than SA) go for as little as $5 in (very) high quantities. Even in single quantities, you can get a nice SHARC for $35. And the SHARC has hardware floating point (which is very nice) and 1/2 megabit of internal RAM for your embedded program. I think that SHARC is pretty low power too. By the way, I never have used SHARC, as my clients are now interested in the Lucent DSP's, but I propose it as one of many competitors to SA for embedded projects. I suspect that the DSP's are not going to be running Linux any time soon, but they can mostly be programmed in "C" now and can also host multiple threads, given an appropriate little kernel. Much of the toolchain for SHARC appears available on the web too (although not as nicely laid out as LART). Now, I know that it goes against the grain to talk about such competing architectures on a SA advocacy server such as LART, but is there a positive economic consensus among those who might be listening? Is LART and SA really a good economic deal? Maybe the costs of the CPU are much lower in high quantities? Just interested in any (better educated) opinions from the group. Thanks, -Ray ** >$85 !! Even the behemouth Pentium costs less in single quantities. P200's go for $35 or so in quantity 4's or something, and they come with floating point (well, sort of). Obviously Linux runs fine on these! I know Pentium sux for embedded apps given their need for a host of support chips and power hungry design. Just used here as a 'value' comparison. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 19:37:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA13179 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:37:34 +0200 Received: from [130.161.40.82] (tvs082.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.40.82]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13168; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:36:09 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003901bfd230$04e45800$0601a8c0@celery.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:35:31 +0200 To: "Raymond Jones" From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: economics of LART, Intel SA in general Cc: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 18:30 +0200 09-06-2000, Raymond Jones wrote: >It appears that this Intel part is *quite* expensive for what you are >getting. Obviously in single quantities, it doesnt matter "too" much what is >the cost. But, I'm seeing >$85** in single quantities maybe dropping to (who >knows?) $20-$35 in high quantities. I believe Intel mentioned $15-20 in qty 10k yes. >That seems very expensive to me for embedded applications. I normally do a >lot of work with DSP's, and these parts (which I think probably have a lot >more computing horsepower than SA) go for as little as $5 in (very) high >quantities. Even in single quantities, you can get a nice SHARC for $35. And >the SHARC has hardware floating point (which is very nice) and 1/2 megabit >of internal RAM for your embedded program. I think that SHARC is pretty low >power too. Not to pick on your example, but the ADSP-21065L Sharc has a peak current usage of 450mA @ 3v3. My measurements show that a Sharc board (ie including memory and the like) draws over 3x the power of a LART while performing similar tasks. Oh and the SA can run fixed point FFTs faster than the Sharc. >Now, I know that it goes against the grain to talk about such competing >architectures on a SA advocacy server such as LART, but is there a positive >economic consensus among those who might be listening? Is LART and SA >really a good economic deal? It Depends (tm). I would be the last to position the LART (or any SA-based design) as a universal cure for all computing problems. What makes sense depends upon the requirements: - for ultra-high volume and no flexibility, go ASIC - if power usage is less important than $/MIPS, use a K6-III - for low power unchanging signal processing tasks (modem), pick a ADSP-21xx - for low complexity low power (PDA) work, grab an ARM[789] - for high complexity low power multitasking use, take an SA-1xxx. DSPs tend to be not too good at TCP/IP or other bitop-intensive tasks. The SA-1 core OTOH has a single-cycle 32x32 MAC, allowing efficient execution of DSP-like tasks. Another point for the SA-1100 is that it has very high integration for an off-the-shelf part. Show me another chip that offers UCB, IrDA, SDLC, two UARTs, SPI, LCD and a DRAM interface. Granted no single embedded app will use all of them, but having them on-chip saves on BOM cost, assembly and board real estate. Finally, an AMD K6-III or an NS Geode might be less expensive than a SA, but in a portable app the increased battery cost (to keep the same runtime) will more than compensate for that. HTH, JDB. [who is not working for Intel sales. Really.] -- "... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab. I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week. Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 21:15:09 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13429 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:15:09 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13425 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:15:05 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11888 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:15:04 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8BF7480D; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:12:16 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:12:16 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: "J.D. Bakker" Cc: Raymond Jones , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: economics of LART, Intel SA in general In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Another point for the SA-1100 is that it has very high integration for an > off-the-shelf part. Show me another chip that offers UCB, IrDA, SDLC, two > UARTs, SPI, LCD and a DRAM interface. easy, SA-1110 :-) kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Fri Jun 9 23:17:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA13814 for lart-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:17:30 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13810 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:17:28 +0200 Received: from gro.hhhh.org (hhhh.hitl.washington.edu [128.95.73.34]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15045 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:17:25 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by gro.hhhh.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04699; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:14:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Toney X-Sender: joeboy@hhhh.hitl.washington.edu To: Raymond Jones cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: economics of LART, Intel SA in general In-Reply-To: <003901bfd230$04e45800$0601a8c0@celery.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > It appears that this Intel part is *quite* expensive for what you are > getting. Obviously in single quantities, it doesnt matter "too" much what is > the cost. But, I'm seeing >$85** in single quantities maybe dropping to (who > knows?) $20-$35 in high quantities. > > That seems very expensive to me for embedded applications. I normally do a ........ > economic consensus among those who might be listening? Is LART and SA > really a good economic deal? Maybe the costs of the CPU are much lower in > high quantities? ........ Just as a reference point when I last talked to the Intel rep the new 600MHZ SA1110s are expected to be running for ~$45 in low ( but not single unit ) quantities. I am using the SA1110 prices since the SA1100 is being phased out and its cost is going to keep going up and up while LART while it is my understanding that eventually move to the SA1110. It is REALLY hard to beat that cost point using a DSP or even a really large FPGA/PLD of some kind. Sure the processor is cheaper but in implementing a general purpose system like LART or PLEB you would end up picking up the cost in extra the components needed to support your perhips. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 00:03:10 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA13956 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:03:10 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13952 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:03:09 +0200 Received: from exchange.dlstestworks.com ([216.94.170.5]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16131 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:03:07 +0200 (METDST) Received: by exchange.dlstestworks.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:44:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Mohamed, Yassin" To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: beoful Lart Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:44:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFD25B.F06CE12C" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD25B.F06CE12C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi. I think one major aspect of lart is not totally being used over her. i.e. LART clusters. Since i am very interested in this area i am going to ask the team for _ minimum _ figures so that i can draw my conclusions. Remember i need minimum figures !!! FYI i am trying to estimate how much a machine that has 1000,10000, or 100000 nodes. basic: 1) how much does the MainBoard cost on 100000k qty ? 2) How about the ethernet board ? 3) Do i need the kitchen sink ? All i need is a cpu with an ethernet connection. (you know now i am only good in software). architectural: 4) Did anyone tryed putting PVM and getting some benchmarks ? 5) How many eth connection do you need per node ? I have seen beoful machine that had 3 eth per node to make up a matrix. Of course you also need routers/bridges but let's forget them for now. If time permits (and $$$) i will like to start with small amount of nodes like 8 then move on to the next 27 etc .. In the mean time i will try to convice my employer to invest in this but i first have to come up with a full plan & a complete solution. Nevertheless i will be very interested in findings regarding this subject. I went and read all the mailing archive and i have not seen this yet. Althought somone was saying that the team is workin' on this . ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD25B.F06CE12C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable beoful Lart

Hi.
I think one major aspect of lart is = not totally being used over her. i.e. LART clusters. Since i am very = interested in this area i am going to ask the team for _ minimum _ = figures so that i can draw my conclusions. Remember i need minimum = figures !!! FYI i am trying to estimate how much a machine that has = 1000,10000, or 100000 nodes.

basic:
1) how much does the MainBoard cost = on 100000k qty ?
2) How about the ethernet board = ?
3) Do i need the kitchen sink ? All i = need is a cpu with an ethernet connection. (you know now i am only good = in software).

architectural:
4) Did anyone tryed putting PVM and = getting some benchmarks ?
5) How many eth connection do you = need per node ? I have seen beoful machine that had 3 eth per node to = make up a matrix.

Of course you also need = routers/bridges but let's forget them for now.

If time permits (and $$$) i will like = to start with small amount of nodes like 8 then move on to the next 27 = etc ..
In the mean time i will try to = convice my employer to invest in this but i first have to come up with = a full plan & a complete solution.

Nevertheless i will be very interested = in findings regarding this subject. I went and read all the mailing = archive and i have not seen this yet. Althought somone was saying that = the team is workin' on this .

------_=_NextPart_001_01BFD25B.F06CE12C-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 01:31:19 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14295 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:31:19 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14291 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:31:18 +0200 Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18395 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:31:16 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cardionet.com (216.55.130.250) by mail0.mailsender.net (5.1.034) id 393FDA1F00041BAD; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:23:02 -0700 Message-ID: <39417C46.8E09C711@cardionet.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 16:22:46 -0700 From: Wallace Owen Reply-To: owen@cardionet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wouter CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: compiler cannot create executables References: <003e01bfd091$eafabf00$2c6f9384@technolution.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I ran into what sounds like the same problem. When I ran the /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -g -O2 foo.c by hand (I created a foo.c that was just int main(int ac, char **av) { return 0; }) it complained about not being able to locate crt1.o, the runtime code. I grepped for crt1.o and found it in gcc/configure, mentioned about 6 times, but not for the ARM. I realized that I must have run configure incorrectly and that the resulting config had made crt1.o a requirement. // Wally Wouter wrote: > > Hi > > I want to build a cross-compiler for arm-linux on a x86 host. > > I have downloaded all the stuff to build the compiler from the lart site en > I have used Chris Rutter's description. > > I ran "make [languages="c"]" and got the following > > checking for sys/resource.h... yes > checking for sys/wait.h that is POSIX.1 compatible... no > checking whether the C compiler (/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc > -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -g -O2 ) works... no > > configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot > create executables. > > make[1]: Entering directory /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/arm-linux/libio' > test x"no" != xyes ||\ > /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ > -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -c -g -O2 -I. -I. -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO iogetline.c -o > pic/iogetline.o > /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/xgcc -B/usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/gcc/ > -B/usr//arm-linux/bin/ -c -g -O2 -I. -I. -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO iogetline.c > In file included from iogetline.c:26: > libioP.h:30: errno.h: No such file or directory > In file included from iolibio.h:1, > from libioP.h:47, > from iogetline.c:26: > libio.h:30: _G_config.h: No such file or directory > iogetline.c:27: string.h: No such file or directory > make[1]: *** [iogetline.o] Error 1 > make[1]: Leaving directory /usr/gcc/gcc-2.95.2/arm-linux/libio' > make: *** [all-target-libio] Error 2 > > It seems that the C compiler is not able to create executables. Can > anybody advise on what steps should I take? > > Thanks, Wouter > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 02:17:20 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA14373 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:17:20 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA14369 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:17:19 +0200 Received: from gro.hhhh.org (hhhh.hitl.washington.edu [128.95.73.34]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19187 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:17:17 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by gro.hhhh.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05222 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:15:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Toney X-Sender: joeboy@hhhh.hitl.washington.edu To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: BOM for LART KSB board. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hey is the bill of materials for the lart KSB board online? Specifically what part # are you using for the IDE header (J4). Aaron Toney, Circus Systems (206) 297-9015 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 03:32:37 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14466 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:32:37 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14461; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:32:37 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA20204; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:32:33 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:31:12 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: "J.D. Bakker" Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:31:12 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote: > At 07:53 +0200 09-06-2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote: > > Allowing user space to flush the caches is can lead to real > >problems. > > Such as ? Considering that a context switch to a process with a different > VM context causes a cache flush anyway, I can't imagine what harm it would > do. Good point. I was going off the idea that the caches were not flushed during a context switch... Simplest thing would be a syscall then. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 03:39:46 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14481 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:39:46 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14477 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:39:45 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id DAA03440; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:39:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id DAA03639; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:39:44 +0200 Message-Id: <200006100139.DAA03639@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Intel SA1110/SA1111 evaluation board + blob? In-Reply-To: from "J.D. Bakker" at "Jun 9, 0 11:48:35 am" To: J.D.Bakker@its.tudelft.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:39:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: chris.price@montage.ca, lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk JDB wrote: > At 05:32 +0200 09-06-2000, Chris Price wrote: > > let me know one > >way or the other if Blob will work on a SA1110 eval board? > > We don't have an Assabet ourselves, but I know people who do have generated > patches and submitted them to Erik Mouw (the blob maintainer). I am pretty > sure that blob will work with those patches (and possibly some small > tweaks). Yes, Jeff Sutherland and Chester made a couple of patches, but I haven't been able to integrate them yet (read: the battery of my notebook didn't last long enough in the woods of Massachusetts to do serious LART work). > > I hate to > >sound demanding, sorry if I am -> I just have a very tight timeframe on > >a project and would love to promote and use Blob (think of Blob in a > >quarter-million public access terminals ;) ). > > Trouble is that Erik is on vacation in the US, and thus doesn't read his > mail as frequently as usual. I on the other hand don't pay too much > attention to blob-related issues, knowing Erik will handle them. Luckily I found a serial line coming from Marc's laptop over here at IBM Watson Research, so I hooked up my laptop and was able to check my email today. > I hope this is enough info. If you really need the patch by yesterday let > me know and I'll see what I can do. I'll include the patch that Chester send me. It's against blob-1.0.7b. It should work on Assabet, but I can't give you any guarantee. I'm going to use this patch to create blob-1.0.8. AFAIK, both Chester and Jeff are on this list, so you can ask them for help. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/main.c blob-1.0.7b/src/main.c --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/main.c Wed May 31 17:53:13 2000 +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/main.c Sun Jun 4 14:26:52 2000 @@ -210,7 +210,11 @@ /* we assume that the kernel is in place */ /* 27 is for the LART, see linux/include/asm-arm/system.h */ SerialOutputString("\rStarting kernel ...\r\r"); +#ifdef ASSABET + theKernel(0,25); +#else theKernel(0, 27); +#endif SerialOutputString("Hey, the kernel returned! This should not happen.\r"); } diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/serial.c blob-1.0.7b/src/serial.c --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/serial.c Tue Oct 5 04:11:47 1999 +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/serial.c Sun Jun 4 14:37:29 2000 @@ -54,26 +54,50 @@ void SerialInit(eBauds baudrate) { /* flush the output buffer */ +#ifdef ASSABET + while(Ser1UTSR1 & UTSR1_TBY) { +#else while(Ser3UTSR1 & UTSR1_TBY) { +#endif /* do nothing */ } /* switch receiver and transmitter off */ +#ifdef ASSABET + Ser1UTCR1 = 0x00; +#else Ser3UTCR3 = 0x00; +#endif /* clear all sticky bits in control register 3 */ +#ifdef ASSABET + Ser1UTSR0 = 0xff; +#else Ser3UTSR0 = 0xff; +#endif /* set the port to sensible defaults: no break, no interrupts, no parity, 8 databits, 1 stopbit, transmitter and receiver enabled */ +#ifdef ASSABET + Ser1UTCR0 = ( UTCR0_1StpBit | UTCR0_8BitData ); +#else Ser3UTCR0 = ( UTCR0_1StpBit | UTCR0_8BitData ); +#endif /* set the baudrate */ +#ifdef ASSABET + Ser1UTCR1 = 0; + Ser1UTCR2 = (u32)baudrate; +#else Ser3UTCR1 = 0; Ser3UTCR2 = (u32)baudrate; - +#endif /* Turn the receiver and transmitter back on */ +#ifdef ASSABET + Ser1UTCR3 = ( UTCR3_RXE | UTCR3_TXE ); +#else Ser3UTCR3 = ( UTCR3_RXE | UTCR3_TXE ); +#endif } @@ -86,9 +110,13 @@ SerialOutputByte('\n'); /* wait for room in the tx FIFO */ +#ifdef ASSABET + while((Ser1UTSR0 & UTSR0_TFS) == 0) ; + Ser1UTDR = c; +#else while((Ser3UTSR0 & UTSR0_TFS) == 0) ; - Ser3UTDR = c; +#endif } @@ -160,9 +188,15 @@ /* returns 1 on success, 0 otherwise */ int SerialInputByte(char *c) { +#ifdef ASSABET + if(Ser1UTSR1 & UTSR1_RNE) { + int err = Ser1UTSR1 & (UTSR1_PRE | UTSR1_FRE | UTSR1_ROR); + *c = (char)Ser1UTDR; +#else if(Ser3UTSR1 & UTSR1_RNE) { int err = Ser3UTSR1 & (UTSR1_PRE | UTSR1_FRE | UTSR1_ROR); *c = (char)Ser3UTDR; +#endif if(err & UTSR1_PRE) SerialOutputByte('@'); else if(err & UTSR1_FRE) diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/start-sa1110.S blob-1.0.7b/src/start-sa1110.S --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/start-sa1110.S Thu Jan 1 08:00:00 1970 +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/start-sa1110.S Sun Jun 4 14:25:28 2000 @@ -0,0 +1,1141 @@ +########################################################################### +## Filename: start.S +## Version: $Id: start.S,v 1.15 1999/10/03 22:03:52 erikm Exp $ +## Copyright: Copyright (C) 1999, Erik Mouw +## Author: Erik Mouw +## Description: blob start code +## Created at: Sun Jul 18 20:29:08 1999 +## Modified by: Erik Mouw +## Modified at: Sun Oct 3 21:07:36 1999 +## More mods by: Jeff Sutherland, Accelent Systems, Inc. March 2000 +########################################################################### +/* + * start.S: blob start code + * + * Copyright (C) 1999 Erik Mouw (J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl) and + * Jan-Derk Bakker (J.D.Bakker@its.tudelft.nl) + * + * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify + * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by + * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or + * (at your option) any later version. + * + * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, + * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of + * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the + * GNU General Public License for more details. + * + * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License + * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software + * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA + * + */ +/* + * This is the blob start code. The SA-1100 jumps to address 0x00000000 + * after a reset. We put a single branch code at this position which jumps + * to a safe region to do the actual setup. All other vectors just point + * to an endless loop for the moment. + * + * Documentation: + * [1] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1100 Microprocessor + * Developer's Manual", April 1999 + * [2] S. Furber, "ARM System Architecture", Addison Wesley Longman + * Ltd., Essex, England, 1996. + * [3] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1110 Microprocessor + * Advanced Developer's manual, December 1999 + */ + +.ident "$Id: start.S,v 1.20 2000/03/14 08:48:00 erikm/jws Exp $" + +.text + +/* extern function to blink the LED */ +.extern blink_led + + +/* Jump vector table as in table 3.1 in [1] */ +.globl _start +_start: b reset + b undefined_instruction + b software_interrupt + b abort_prefetch + b abort_data + b not_used + b irq + b fiq + +reset: + + .rept 64 + nop + .endr + +/* do that to make sure we're awake... */ +/* Register addresses can be found in [1] Appendix A */ +/* allow 32kHz clock to settle before continuing... */ +/* Also, provides more than the 100-200uSec delay required by SDRAM clocks */ + + mov r1, #0x90000000 + add r1, r1, #0x20000 +1: ldr r2, [r1, #0x1c] + tst r2, #1 + beq 1b + + /* First, mask **ALL** interrupts */ + mov r1, #0x90000000 + add r1, r1, #0x50000 + mov r2, #0x00 + str r2, [r1, #0x4] + + /* Switch the SA-1100/SA-1110 to 221 MHz (0x0b) */ + + mov r1, #0x90000000 + add r1, r1, #0x20000 + mov r2, #0x0b + str r2, [r1, #0x14] + +/* now it gets tricky: */ + + + /* Set up the SDRAM in banks 0 and 1 */ + mov r1, #0xA0000000 /* MDCNFG base address */ + + /* MDCAS00 */ + mov r2, #0xAA000000 + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 + add r2, r2, #0x0000007F + str r2, [r1, #0x04] + /* MDCAS01 */ + mov r2, #0xAA000000 + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 + add r2, r2, #0x000000AA + str r2, [r1, #0x08] + /* MDCAS02 */ + mov r2, #0xAA000000 + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 + add r2, r2, #0x000000AA + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] + + mov r2, #0x02000000 /* MDREFR */ + add r2, r2, #0x300000 + add r2, r2, #0x0300 + add r2, r2, #0x12 + str r2, [r1, #0x1C] + +/* Got drams on banks 2 and 3? What the hey... */ + + mov r2, #0x33000000 /* MDCAS20 */ + add r2, r2, #0x330000 + add r2, r2, #0x3300 + add r2, r2, #0x37 + str r2, [r1, #0x20] + + sub r2, r2, #4 /* MDCAS21 */ + str r2, [r1, #0x24] + str r2, [r1, #0x28] /* MDCAS22 */ + +/* Assabet only perhaps: */ + + mov r2, #0x25000000 /* MECR */ + add r2, r2, #0x290000 + add r2, r2, #0x2500 + add r2, r2, #0x29 + str r2, [r1, #0x18] + +/* Static memory chip selects on Assabet: */ + + mov r2, #0xef000000 /* MCS0 */ + add r2, r2, #0x780000 + add r2, r2, #0xef00 + add r2, r2, #0x78 + str r2, [r1, #0x10] + + mov r2, #0xcd000000 /* MCS1 */ + add r2, r2, #0x680000 + add r2, r2, #0xef00 + add r2, r2, #0x78 + str r2, [r1, #0x14] + + mov r2, #0xcd000000 /* MCS2 */ + add r2, r2, #0x680000 + add r2, r2, #0xcd00 + add r2, r2, #0x68 + str r2, [r1, #0x18] + +/* Synchronous rom anyone? */ + + mov r2, #0 + str r2, [r1, #0x30] + + b 10f + +/* MDREFR_MASK is really 0xb674ffff */ + +/* Starting sdrams and programming their internal config registers is an + ugly thing. Reference [3] talks about this... +*/ + + @ sequence the SDRAM controller from "self-refresh and clock stop" + @ through the following steps to get to "idle" + @ - self-refresh and clock stop (state after reset) + @ - self-refresh + @ - power-down + @ - PWRDNX + @ - idle + + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: self-refresh and clock stop + + @ First get the address of the MDREFR register +10: mov r4, #0xa0000000 + add r4, r4, #0x1C + + @ set KnDB2, DRI, TRAS fields to the correct values, keep auto power down bits disabled + @ ??? Must use proper value based on selected CPU speed + mov r6, #0x80000000 + add r6, r6, #0x100000 + add r6, r6, #0x0300 + add r6, r6, #0x12 + orr r5, r5, r6 + str r5, [r4] + + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "self-refresh and clock stop" to "self-refresh" (set K1RUN and K2RUN bits) + orr r5, r5, #0x02200000 + str r5, [r4] + + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: self-refresh + + @ Delay with clock running + mov r0, r3 + mov r1, r4 + mov r2, r6 + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 + mov r3, r0 + mov r4, r1 + mov r6, r2 + + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "self-refresh" to "power-down" (clear SLFRSH bit) + bic r5, r5, #0x80000000 + str r5, [r4] + + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: power-down + + @ Delay with clock running + + mov r0, r3 + mov r1, r4 + mov r2, r6 + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 + mov r3, r0 + mov r4, r1 + mov r6, r2 + + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "power-down" to "PWRDNX" (set E1PIN bit) + orr r5, r5, #0x00100000 + str r5, [r4] + + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: PWRDNX + + @ Delay with clock running + mov r0, r3 + mov r1, r4 + mov r2, r6 + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 + mov r3, r0 + mov r4, r1 + mov r6, r2 + + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: the move from "PWRDNX" to "IDLE" is automatic + @ SDRAM command is COMMAND_INHIBIT (NOP) + + + @ For SDRAM, the first refresh command will also cause a PAL (Precharge All banks) + @ before the CBR (auto refresh) + + @ Cause CBR DRAM/SDRAM cycles to be run by non-burst read of any disabled DRAM/SDRAM bank + mov r4, #0xC0000000 + + @ Loop for selected number of CBR (SDRAM auto refresh) refresh cycles + mov r7, #16 +10: + @ Trigger CBR refresh by causing a non-burst read from a disabled DRAM/SDRAM bank + ldr r0, [r4] + + @ Wait for refresh to complete + + mov r0, r3 + mov r1, r4 + mov r2, r6 + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 + mov r3, r0 + mov r4, r1 + mov r6, r2 + + subs r7, r7, #1 + bne 10b + + + @ Select proper MDCNFG register value for the chosen CPU speed + mov r1, #0x71000000 + add r1, r1, #0x500000 + add r1, r1, #0xb200 + add r1, r1, #0x55 + + @ enable DRAM/SDRAM banks, for SDRAM this will also cause a MRS command which programs the SDRAM mode register + mov r0, #0xa0000000 + str r1, [r0] + + @ Wait a bit more + mov r0, r3 + mov r1, r4 + mov r2, r6 + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 + mov r3, r0 + mov r4, r1 + mov r6, r2 + + @ Turn on auto power down bits +@ orr r5, r5, #(DRAM_MDREFR_VALUE_0:AND:(EAPD:OR:KAPD)) + orr r5, r5, #0x30000000 + str r5, [r4] + +/* All SDRAM memory settings should be ready to go... */ +/* For best performance, should fill out remaining memory config regs: */ + + + /* Testing ,Chester */ + mov r3,#0x12000000 + mov r2,#0x5000 @ D9_LED on and D8_LED off + str r2,[r3] + mov r4, #0x20000 +gogogo2: + subs r4, r4, #1 + bne gogogo2 + + + /* modified by Chester ,using serial port 1 on Assabet */ + ldr r0,=0x80020060 @GPCLK/UART select,select UART + mov r2,#1 + str r2,[r0] + + /* Now clear all 'sticky' bits in serial I registers, cf. [1] 11.11 */ + mov r1, #0x80000000 + add r1, r1, #0x10000 + mov r2, #0xFF + str r2, [r1, #0x1C] + + /* Set the serial port to sensible defaults: no break, no interrupts, */ + /* no parity, 8 databits, 1 stopbit. */ + mov r2, #0x00 + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] + mov r2, #0x08 + str r2, [r1, #0x00] + + /* Set BRD to 5, for a baudrate of 38k4 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */ + /* Set BRD to 23, for a baudrate of 9k6 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */ + mov r2, #0x00 + str r2, [r1, #0x04] + mov r2, #23 + str r2, [r1, #0x08] + + /* Initialize the GPDR (GPIO Pin Direction Register) in such a + way that the LED is on an output port */ + + /* load the GPIO base in r2 */ + mov r2, #0x90000000 + add r2, r2, #0x40000 + + /* Bit 23 is the LED, according to JDB, but 17 on Zilker */ +/* mov r1, #0x00800000 */ + mov r1, #0x00020000 + str r1, [r2, #0x04] + + /* The LED controls FORCE_ON, so turn it on here */ + str r1, [r2, #0x08] + + /* Prepare to send some characters out in a loop */ + mov r1, #0x80000000 + add r1, r1, #0x10000 + + /* Enable the transmitter */ + mov r2, #0x02 + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] + + /* Send out a welcome message */ + adr r0, welcome + bl print_str + + /* Determine whether this code runs from main flash or external flash */ + /* Clue: Main flash is 32 bit, external is 16 bit. */ +/* don't do this for Assabet: + mov r1, #0xA0000000 + ldr r0, [r1, #0x10] + ands r0, r0, #0x04 + bne cpy_ext2int +*/ + /* Put the main flash to the correct speed */ + +/* again, not for Assabet since we are already at full speed. + mov r1, #0xA0000000 + mov r2, #0x6D000000 + add r2, r2, #0x00680000 + add r2, r2, #0x00006D00 + add r2, r2, #0x00000068 + str r2, [r1, #0x10] @ MSC0 (for 160S3 flash chips) +*/ + + adr r0, int_flash_str + bl print_str + +test_mem: + /* Start the memory tester, hardcoded bank 0 & 1 for now */ + adr r0, start_test + bl print_str + + /* Erase memory */ + adr r0, zeroing_mem + bl print_str + + mov r4, #0xC0000000 + mov r5, #0xD0000000 + mov r6, #0x400000 + sub r6, r6, #0x01 + + mov r0, r4 + bl print_hex + +zero_loop: + mov r0, #0x0 + mov r1, #0x0 + mov r2, #0x0 + mov r3, #0x0 + mov r7, #0x0 + mov r8, #0x0 + mov r9, #0x0 + mov r10, #0x0 +zero_loop1: + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} + tst r4, r6 + bne zero_loop1 + adr r0, del10 + bl print_str + mov r0, r4 + bl print_hex + cmp r4, r5 + blt zero_loop + + adr r0, zeroing_done + bl print_str + + mov r4, #0xC0000000 + mov r5, #0xD0000000 + mov r6, r4 /* Base for current block */ + mov r7, #0x0 /* Diff between r4 and [r4] */ + + /* Go hunting for aliases */ + +alias_loop: + ldr r8, [r4] + cmp r8, #0x0 + streq r4, [r4] /* If the value was zero, load r4 to it */ + moveq r8, r4 + sub r9, r4, r8 + cmp r9, r7 /* Is this a new block ? */ + bne alias_detected + add r4, r4, #0x1000 + cmp r4, r5 + blt alias_loop + b alias_done + +alias_detected: + + adr r0, block_at_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r6 + bl print_hex + adr r0, length_str + bl print_str + sub r0, r4, r6 + bl print_hex + sub r8, r6, r7 + cmp r7, #0x0 /* Is this a 'new' block ? */ + moveq r10, r6 /* If so, remember the start of this block...*/ + moveq r11, r4 /* ...and the start of the next block */ + mov r6, r4 + mov r7, r9 + beq alias_loop + adr r0, alias_for_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r8 + bl print_hex + b alias_loop + +alias_done: + + /* Set up the stack pointer */ + sub sp, r11, #0x04 + + /* Arg 0 of the C code is the start of the block it can use; */ + /* arg 1 is the size of that block. */ + mov r0, r10 + sub r1, r11, r10 + + /* Testing ,Chester*/ + mov r3,#0x12000000 + mov r2,#0x7800 @ D9_LED off and D8_LED off + str r2,[r3] + mov r3, #0x50000 +gogogo6: + subs r3, r3, #1 +bne gogogo6 + + /* Jump to the C code */ +jump_to_c: + bl c_main + + /* The c code should never return ! */ + /* (but if it does, we want to know about it...) */ + adr r0, main_prog_abort + bl print_str + b reset + + +blinky: + /* The old blinker */ + mov r2, #0x90000000 + add r2, r2, #0x40000 + mov r1, #0x00020000 + +old_led_on: + /* turn on the LED by writing the GPSR (GPIO Pin output Set + Register) */ + str r1, [r2, #0x08] + mov r4, #0x10000 +loop1: + subs r4, r4, #1 + bne loop1 + +old_led_off: + /* turn off the LED by writing the GPCR (GPIO Pin output Clear + Register) */ + str r1, [r2, #0x0c] + + mov r4, #0x10000 +loop2: + subs r4, r4, #1 + bne loop2 + + /* and loop forever */ + b old_led_on + + +.align 4 +welcome: + .string "\n\r\n\rBLOB boot loader for Assabet Linux, v0.1.\n\r" + +.align 4 +int_flash_str: + .string "Running from internal Flash.\n\r" + +.align 4 +start_test: + .string "Starting the memory tester...\n\r" + +.align 4 +zeroing_mem: + .string "Zeroing memory..." + +.align 4 +zeroing_done: + .string "\n\rZeroing done.Testing aliases\n\r" + +.align 4 +main_prog_abort: + .string "\n\rMain function aborted!\n\r" + +.align 4 +del10: + .string "\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b" + +.align 4 +block_at_str: + .string "\n\rBlock at " + +.align 4 +length_str: + .string " with length " + +.align 4 +alias_for_str: + .string " is an alias of " +.align 4 + + /* Subroutine that sends a string over the serial port */ + /* The address of the string should be in r0 */ +print_str: + /* Save the return address */ + mov r13, r14 + mov r2, r0 +prs1: + ldrsb r0, [r2] + add r2, r2, #0x01 + ands r0, r0, #0xFF + beq prs2 + bl print_byte + b prs1 + +prs2: + /* Return */ + mov pc, r13 + + + /* Subroutine to send a hex word (in r0) over the serial port */ +print_hex: + mov r13, r14 + mov r2, r0 + mov r3, #0x08 + mov r0, #0x30 + bl print_byte + mov r0, #0x78 + bl print_byte +prh1: + and r0, r2, #0xF0000000 + mov r0, r0, lsr #28 + add r0, r0, #0x30 + cmp r0, #0x3A + addge r0, r0, #0x07 + bl print_byte + mov r2, r2, lsl #4 + subs r3, r3, #0x01 + bne prh1 + + mov pc, r13 + + /* Subroutine that sends a byte over the serial port. */ + /* The byte is in r0 */ +print_byte: + /* Wait for room in the tx fifo */ + mov r1, #0x80000000 + add r1, r1, #0x10000 + ldr r1, [r1, #0x1C] + ands r1, r1, #0x01 + beq print_byte + + mov r1, #0x80000000 + add r1, r1, #0x10000 + str r0, [r1, #0x14] + mov pc, r14 + + +cpy_ext2int: + + /* Put the Flash to the correct speed */ + mov r1, #0xA0000000 + mov r2, #0x48000000 + add r2, r2, #0x00680000 + add r2, r2, #0x0000AD00 + add r2, r2, #0x0000006C + str r2, [r1, #0x10] + + adr r0, ext_flash_str + bl print_str + + /* Get the ID of the internal flash */ + mov r0, #0x0090 + add r0, r0, #0x00900000 + bl data_to_flash + mov r4, #0x08000000 + str r0, [r4] + ldr r0, [r4] + bl data_from_flash + mov r5, r0 + ldr r0, [r4, #0x04] + bl data_from_flash + mov r6, r0 + mov r3, #0x0089 + add r3, r3, #0x00890000 + cmp r3, r5 + beq flash_man_ok + adr r0, int_unknown_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r5 + bl print_hex + b cpy_exit +flash_man_ok: + adr r0, int_intel_str + bl print_str + mov r3, #0x88000000 + add r3, r3, #0x00F40000 + add r3, r3, #0x00008800 + add r3, r3, #0x000000F4 + cmp r3, r6 + beq flash_dev_ok + adr r0, int_unknown2_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r6 + bl print_hex + b cpy_exit +flash_dev_ok: + adr r0, int_16m_b_str + bl print_str + + /* Find the size of the data in the external flash */ + mov r5, #0x020000 /* Sod it, we hardcode it to 128k */ + + /* Erase blocks in the internal flash, when needed */ + mov r4, #0x08000000 + add r6, r4, r5 + + mov r0, #0x00500000 + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r4] + +erase_loop: + /* switch to read array mode, if we're not there already */ + mov r0, #0x00FF0000 + add r0, r0, #0x000000FF + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r4] + ldr r0, [r4] + cmn r0, #0x01 + beq no_erase + adr r0, erase_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r4 + bl print_hex + mov r0, #0x00200000 + add r0, r0, #0x00000020 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r4] + mov r0, #0x00D00000 + add r0, r0, #0x000000D0 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r4] + bl wait_status + mov r3, #0x00200000 + add r3, r3, #0x00000020 + tst r0, r3 + beq erase_ok + bl print_hex + adr r0, erase_err_str + bl print_str + b cpy_exit +erase_ok: + adr r0, erase_end_str + bl print_str +no_erase: + add r4, r4, #0x04 + cmp r4, r6 + blt erase_loop + + /* Write blocks to the internal flash */ + mov r4, #0x00 + + mov r0, #0x00500000 + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r4] + + adr r0, write_start_str + bl print_str + +write_loop: + ldr r7, [r4] + cmn r7, #0x01 + beq no_write + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 + mov r0, #0x00400000 + add r0, r0, #0x00000040 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r6] + str r7, [r6] + bl wait_status + mov r3, #0x00100000 + add r3, r3, #0x00000010 + tst r0, r3 + beq no_write + mov r7, r0 + adr r0, write_err1_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r7 + bl print_hex + adr r0, write_err2_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r6 + bl print_hex + b cpy_exit +no_write: + add r4, r4, #0x04 + cmp r4, r5 + blt write_loop + + /* Verify blocks written to the internal flash */ + mov r4, #0x00 + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 + + mov r0, #0x00500000 + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r6] + + mov r0, #0x00FF0000 + add r0, r0, #0x000000FF + bl data_to_flash + str r0, [r6] + + adr r0, vrfy_start_str + bl print_str + +vrfy_loop: + ldr r7, [r4] + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 + ldr r8, [r6] + cmp r7, r8 + beq next_vrfy + adr r0, vrfy_err1_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r6 + bl print_hex + adr r0, vrfy_err2_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r7 + bl print_hex + adr r0, vrfy_err3_str + bl print_str + mov r0, r8 + bl print_hex + b cpy_exit +next_vrfy: + add r4, r4, #0x04 + cmp r4, r5 + blt vrfy_loop + + adr r0, cpy_done_str + bl print_str + +cpy_exit: + b test_mem + +.align 4 +ext_flash_str: + .string "Running from external flash.\n\r" + +.align 4 +int_intel_str: + .string "Internal flash manufacturer: Intel.\n\r" + +.align 4 +int_unknown_str: + .string "Error: Unknown internal flash manufacturer ID " + +.align 4 +int_16m_b_str: + .string "Internal flash devices: 2 x 28F160F3 16Mbit bottom flash.\n\r" + +.align 4 +int_unknown2_str: + .string "Error: Unknown internal flash devices ID " + +.align 4 +erase_str: + .string "Erasing block at " + +.align 4 +erase_err_str: + .string " <- error !\n\r" + +.align 4 +erase_end_str: + .string " done.\n\r" + +.align 4 +write_start_str: + .string "Writing data...\n\r" + +.align 4 +write_err1_str: + .string "Error " + +.align 4 +write_err2_str: + .string " at " + +.align 4 +vrfy_start_str: + .string "Verifying data...\n\r" + +.align 4 +vrfy_err1_str: + .string "Verify error at address " + +.align 4 +vrfy_err2_str: + .string "; expected : " + +.align 4 +vrfy_err3_str: + .string "; found : " + +.align 4 +cpy_done_str: + .string "Copying done.\n\r" + +.align 4 + /* Wait for the status of *both* internal flash devices to be ready. */ + /* Returns the status in r0. */ +wait_status: + mov r13, r14 +wait_status_loop: + mov r0, #0x00700000 + add r0, r0, #0x0070 + bl data_to_flash + mov r1, #0x08000000 + str r0, [r1] + ldr r0, [r1] + bl data_from_flash + tst r0, #0x00000080 + tstne r0, #0x00800000 + beq wait_status_loop + mov pc, r13 + +.globl data_to_flash +.globl data_from_flash + /* Subroutine that takes data in r0 and formats it so it will be in */ + /* the correct order for the internal flash */ +data_to_flash: + mov r1, #0x0 + + tst r0, #0x00000001 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00001000 + tst r0, #0x00000002 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00004000 + tst r0, #0x00000004 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000800 + tst r0, #0x00000008 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000200 + tst r0, #0x00000010 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000001 + tst r0, #0x00000020 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000004 + tst r0, #0x00000040 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000080 + tst r0, #0x00000080 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000020 + + tst r0, #0x00000100 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00002000 + tst r0, #0x00000200 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00008000 + tst r0, #0x00000400 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000400 + tst r0, #0x00000800 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000100 + tst r0, #0x00001000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000002 + tst r0, #0x00002000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000008 + tst r0, #0x00004000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000040 + tst r0, #0x00008000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000010 + + tst r0, #0x00010000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00100000 + tst r0, #0x00020000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00400000 + tst r0, #0x00040000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00080000 + tst r0, #0x00080000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00020000 + tst r0, #0x00100000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x01000000 + tst r0, #0x00200000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x04000000 + tst r0, #0x00400000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x80000000 + tst r0, #0x00800000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x20000000 + + tst r0, #0x01000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00200000 + tst r0, #0x02000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00800000 + tst r0, #0x04000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00040000 + tst r0, #0x08000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00010000 + tst r0, #0x10000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x02000000 + tst r0, #0x20000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x08000000 + tst r0, #0x40000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x40000000 + tst r0, #0x80000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x10000000 + + mov r0, r1 + mov pc, r14 + + /* Takes data received from the flash, and unshuffles it. */ +data_from_flash: + mov r1, #0x00 + + tst r0, #0x00000001 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000010 + tst r0, #0x00000002 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00001000 + tst r0, #0x00000004 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000020 + tst r0, #0x00000008 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00002000 + tst r0, #0x00000010 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00008000 + tst r0, #0x00000020 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000080 + tst r0, #0x00000040 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00004000 + tst r0, #0x00000080 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000040 + + tst r0, #0x00000100 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000800 + tst r0, #0x00000200 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000008 + tst r0, #0x00000400 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000400 + tst r0, #0x00000800 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000004 + tst r0, #0x00001000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000001 + tst r0, #0x00002000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000100 + tst r0, #0x00004000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000002 + tst r0, #0x00008000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000200 + + tst r0, #0x00010000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x08000000 + tst r0, #0x00020000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00080000 + tst r0, #0x00040000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x04000000 + tst r0, #0x00080000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00040000 + tst r0, #0x00100000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00010000 + tst r0, #0x00200000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x01000000 + tst r0, #0x00400000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00020000 + tst r0, #0x00800000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x02000000 + + tst r0, #0x01000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00100000 + tst r0, #0x02000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x10000000 + tst r0, #0x04000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00200000 + tst r0, #0x08000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x20000000 + tst r0, #0x10000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x80000000 + tst r0, #0x20000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00800000 + tst r0, #0x40000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x40000000 + tst r0, #0x80000000 + orrne r1, r1, #0x00400000 + + mov r0, r1 + mov pc, r14 + + + +undefined_instruction: + + mov r12, lr @store addr of bad instruction + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xaa000000 +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + str r12, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + b 1b + +software_interrupt: + + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xbb000000 + str r11, [r10, #0x10] + b software_interrupt + +abort_prefetch: + + mov r12, lr + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xcc000000 +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + str r12, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + b 1b + +abort_data: + + mov r12, lr + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xdd000000 +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + str r12, [r10, #0x10] + bl oneSecDelay + b 1b + +not_used: + + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xee000000 + str r11, [r10, #0x10] + b not_used + +irq: + + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xf1000000 + str r11, [r10, #0x10] + b irq + +fiq: + mov r10, #0x10000000 + mov r11, #0xf2000000 + str r11, [r10, #0x10] + b fiq + +oneSecDelay: + mov r3, #0x90000000 + add r3, r3, #0x10000 + ldr r4, [r3, #0x4] @get initial value +1: ldr r6, [r3, #0x4] + sub r6, r6, r4 + cmp r6, #0x8000 + ble 1b + mov pc, lr + +tenthSecDelay: /* Well, actually not that much :) */ + mov r3, #0x90000000 + add r3, r3, #0x10000 + ldr r4, [r3, #0x4] +1: ldr r6, [r3, #0x4] + sub r6, r6, r4 + cmp r6, #0xc0 + ble 1b + mov pc, lr + -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 03:50:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14514 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:50:55 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14510 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:50:54 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA20452; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:50:45 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:50:41 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Erik Mouw Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:50:41 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Intel SA1110/SA1111 evaluation board + blob? In-Reply-To: <200006100139.DAA03639@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk When the 1.0.8 blob release is avaliable I can test it. Cheers Adam On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Erik Mouw wrote: > JDB wrote: > > At 05:32 +0200 09-06-2000, Chris Price wrote: > > > let me know one > > >way or the other if Blob will work on a SA1110 eval board? > > > > We don't have an Assabet ourselves, but I know people who do have generated > > patches and submitted them to Erik Mouw (the blob maintainer). I am pretty > > sure that blob will work with those patches (and possibly some small > > tweaks). > > Yes, Jeff Sutherland and Chester made a couple of patches, but I > haven't been able to integrate them yet (read: the battery of my > notebook didn't last long enough in the woods of Massachusetts to > do serious LART work). > > > > I hate to > > >sound demanding, sorry if I am -> I just have a very tight timeframe on > > >a project and would love to promote and use Blob (think of Blob in a > > >quarter-million public access terminals ;) ). > > > > Trouble is that Erik is on vacation in the US, and thus doesn't read his > > mail as frequently as usual. I on the other hand don't pay too much > > attention to blob-related issues, knowing Erik will handle them. > > Luckily I found a serial line coming from Marc's laptop over here at > IBM Watson Research, so I hooked up my laptop and was able to check my > email today. > > > I hope this is enough info. If you really need the patch by yesterday let > > me know and I'll see what I can do. > > I'll include the patch that Chester send me. It's against blob-1.0.7b. > It should work on Assabet, but I can't give you any guarantee. I'm going > to use this patch to create blob-1.0.8. AFAIK, both Chester and Jeff are > on this list, so you can ask them for help. > > > Erik > > -- > J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department > of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, > Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands > Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl > WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/main.c blob-1.0.7b/src/main.c > --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/main.c Wed May 31 17:53:13 2000 > +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/main.c Sun Jun 4 14:26:52 2000 > @@ -210,7 +210,11 @@ > /* we assume that the kernel is in place */ > /* 27 is for the LART, see linux/include/asm-arm/system.h */ > SerialOutputString("\rStarting kernel ...\r\r"); > +#ifdef ASSABET > + theKernel(0,25); > +#else > theKernel(0, 27); > +#endif > > SerialOutputString("Hey, the kernel returned! This should not happen.\r"); > } > diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/serial.c blob-1.0.7b/src/serial.c > --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/serial.c Tue Oct 5 04:11:47 1999 > +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/serial.c Sun Jun 4 14:37:29 2000 > @@ -54,26 +54,50 @@ > void SerialInit(eBauds baudrate) > { > /* flush the output buffer */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + while(Ser1UTSR1 & UTSR1_TBY) { > +#else > while(Ser3UTSR1 & UTSR1_TBY) { > +#endif > /* do nothing */ > } > > /* switch receiver and transmitter off */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + Ser1UTCR1 = 0x00; > +#else > Ser3UTCR3 = 0x00; > +#endif > > /* clear all sticky bits in control register 3 */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + Ser1UTSR0 = 0xff; > +#else > Ser3UTSR0 = 0xff; > +#endif > > /* set the port to sensible defaults: no break, no interrupts, no > parity, 8 databits, 1 stopbit, transmitter and receiver enabled */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + Ser1UTCR0 = ( UTCR0_1StpBit | UTCR0_8BitData ); > +#else > Ser3UTCR0 = ( UTCR0_1StpBit | UTCR0_8BitData ); > > +#endif > /* set the baudrate */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + Ser1UTCR1 = 0; > + Ser1UTCR2 = (u32)baudrate; > +#else > Ser3UTCR1 = 0; > Ser3UTCR2 = (u32)baudrate; > - > +#endif > /* Turn the receiver and transmitter back on */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + Ser1UTCR3 = ( UTCR3_RXE | UTCR3_TXE ); > +#else > Ser3UTCR3 = ( UTCR3_RXE | UTCR3_TXE ); > +#endif > } > > > @@ -86,9 +110,13 @@ > SerialOutputByte('\n'); > > /* wait for room in the tx FIFO */ > +#ifdef ASSABET > + while((Ser1UTSR0 & UTSR0_TFS) == 0) ; > + Ser1UTDR = c; > +#else > while((Ser3UTSR0 & UTSR0_TFS) == 0) ; > - > Ser3UTDR = c; > +#endif > } > > > @@ -160,9 +188,15 @@ > /* returns 1 on success, 0 otherwise */ > int SerialInputByte(char *c) > { > +#ifdef ASSABET > + if(Ser1UTSR1 & UTSR1_RNE) { > + int err = Ser1UTSR1 & (UTSR1_PRE | UTSR1_FRE | UTSR1_ROR); > + *c = (char)Ser1UTDR; > +#else > if(Ser3UTSR1 & UTSR1_RNE) { > int err = Ser3UTSR1 & (UTSR1_PRE | UTSR1_FRE | UTSR1_ROR); > *c = (char)Ser3UTDR; > +#endif > if(err & UTSR1_PRE) > SerialOutputByte('@'); > else if(err & UTSR1_FRE) > diff -urN blob-1.0.7b.org/src/start-sa1110.S blob-1.0.7b/src/start-sa1110.S > --- blob-1.0.7b.org/src/start-sa1110.S Thu Jan 1 08:00:00 1970 > +++ blob-1.0.7b/src/start-sa1110.S Sun Jun 4 14:25:28 2000 > @@ -0,0 +1,1141 @@ > +########################################################################### > +## Filename: start.S > +## Version: $Id: start.S,v 1.15 1999/10/03 22:03:52 erikm Exp $ > +## Copyright: Copyright (C) 1999, Erik Mouw > +## Author: Erik Mouw > +## Description: blob start code > +## Created at: Sun Jul 18 20:29:08 1999 > +## Modified by: Erik Mouw > +## Modified at: Sun Oct 3 21:07:36 1999 > +## More mods by: Jeff Sutherland, Accelent Systems, Inc. March 2000 > +########################################################################### > +/* > + * start.S: blob start code > + * > + * Copyright (C) 1999 Erik Mouw (J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl) and > + * Jan-Derk Bakker (J.D.Bakker@its.tudelft.nl) > + * > + * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify > + * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by > + * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or > + * (at your option) any later version. > + * > + * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, > + * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of > + * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the > + * GNU General Public License for more details. > + * > + * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License > + * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software > + * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA > + * > + */ > +/* > + * This is the blob start code. The SA-1100 jumps to address 0x00000000 > + * after a reset. We put a single branch code at this position which jumps > + * to a safe region to do the actual setup. All other vectors just point > + * to an endless loop for the moment. > + * > + * Documentation: > + * [1] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1100 Microprocessor > + * Developer's Manual", April 1999 > + * [2] S. Furber, "ARM System Architecture", Addison Wesley Longman > + * Ltd., Essex, England, 1996. > + * [3] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1110 Microprocessor > + * Advanced Developer's manual, December 1999 > + */ > + > +.ident "$Id: start.S,v 1.20 2000/03/14 08:48:00 erikm/jws Exp $" > + > +.text > + > +/* extern function to blink the LED */ > +.extern blink_led > + > + > +/* Jump vector table as in table 3.1 in [1] */ > +.globl _start > +_start: b reset > + b undefined_instruction > + b software_interrupt > + b abort_prefetch > + b abort_data > + b not_used > + b irq > + b fiq > + > +reset: > + > + .rept 64 > + nop > + .endr > + > +/* do that to make sure we're awake... */ > +/* Register addresses can be found in [1] Appendix A */ > +/* allow 32kHz clock to settle before continuing... */ > +/* Also, provides more than the 100-200uSec delay required by SDRAM clocks */ > + > + mov r1, #0x90000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x20000 > +1: ldr r2, [r1, #0x1c] > + tst r2, #1 > + beq 1b > + > + /* First, mask **ALL** interrupts */ > + mov r1, #0x90000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x50000 > + mov r2, #0x00 > + str r2, [r1, #0x4] > + > + /* Switch the SA-1100/SA-1110 to 221 MHz (0x0b) */ > + > + mov r1, #0x90000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x20000 > + mov r2, #0x0b > + str r2, [r1, #0x14] > + > +/* now it gets tricky: */ > + > + > + /* Set up the SDRAM in banks 0 and 1 */ > + mov r1, #0xA0000000 /* MDCNFG base address */ > + > + /* MDCAS00 */ > + mov r2, #0xAA000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000007F > + str r2, [r1, #0x04] > + /* MDCAS01 */ > + mov r2, #0xAA000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 > + add r2, r2, #0x000000AA > + str r2, [r1, #0x08] > + /* MDCAS02 */ > + mov r2, #0xAA000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00AA0000 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000AA00 > + add r2, r2, #0x000000AA > + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] > + > + mov r2, #0x02000000 /* MDREFR */ > + add r2, r2, #0x300000 > + add r2, r2, #0x0300 > + add r2, r2, #0x12 > + str r2, [r1, #0x1C] > + > +/* Got drams on banks 2 and 3? What the hey... */ > + > + mov r2, #0x33000000 /* MDCAS20 */ > + add r2, r2, #0x330000 > + add r2, r2, #0x3300 > + add r2, r2, #0x37 > + str r2, [r1, #0x20] > + > + sub r2, r2, #4 /* MDCAS21 */ > + str r2, [r1, #0x24] > + str r2, [r1, #0x28] /* MDCAS22 */ > + > +/* Assabet only perhaps: */ > + > + mov r2, #0x25000000 /* MECR */ > + add r2, r2, #0x290000 > + add r2, r2, #0x2500 > + add r2, r2, #0x29 > + str r2, [r1, #0x18] > + > +/* Static memory chip selects on Assabet: */ > + > + mov r2, #0xef000000 /* MCS0 */ > + add r2, r2, #0x780000 > + add r2, r2, #0xef00 > + add r2, r2, #0x78 > + str r2, [r1, #0x10] > + > + mov r2, #0xcd000000 /* MCS1 */ > + add r2, r2, #0x680000 > + add r2, r2, #0xef00 > + add r2, r2, #0x78 > + str r2, [r1, #0x14] > + > + mov r2, #0xcd000000 /* MCS2 */ > + add r2, r2, #0x680000 > + add r2, r2, #0xcd00 > + add r2, r2, #0x68 > + str r2, [r1, #0x18] > + > +/* Synchronous rom anyone? */ > + > + mov r2, #0 > + str r2, [r1, #0x30] > + > + b 10f > + > +/* MDREFR_MASK is really 0xb674ffff */ > + > +/* Starting sdrams and programming their internal config registers is an > + ugly thing. Reference [3] talks about this... > +*/ > + > + @ sequence the SDRAM controller from "self-refresh and clock stop" > + @ through the following steps to get to "idle" > + @ - self-refresh and clock stop (state after reset) > + @ - self-refresh > + @ - power-down > + @ - PWRDNX > + @ - idle > + > + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: self-refresh and clock stop > + > + @ First get the address of the MDREFR register > +10: mov r4, #0xa0000000 > + add r4, r4, #0x1C > + > + @ set KnDB2, DRI, TRAS fields to the correct values, keep auto power down bits disabled > + @ ??? Must use proper value based on selected CPU speed > + mov r6, #0x80000000 > + add r6, r6, #0x100000 > + add r6, r6, #0x0300 > + add r6, r6, #0x12 > + orr r5, r5, r6 > + str r5, [r4] > + > + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "self-refresh and clock stop" to "self-refresh" (set K1RUN and K2RUN bits) > + orr r5, r5, #0x02200000 > + str r5, [r4] > + > + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: self-refresh > + > + @ Delay with clock running > + mov r0, r3 > + mov r1, r4 > + mov r2, r6 > + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 > + mov r3, r0 > + mov r4, r1 > + mov r6, r2 > + > + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "self-refresh" to "power-down" (clear SLFRSH bit) > + bic r5, r5, #0x80000000 > + str r5, [r4] > + > + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: power-down > + > + @ Delay with clock running > + > + mov r0, r3 > + mov r1, r4 > + mov r2, r6 > + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 > + mov r3, r0 > + mov r4, r1 > + mov r6, r2 > + > + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: move from "power-down" to "PWRDNX" (set E1PIN bit) > + orr r5, r5, #0x00100000 > + str r5, [r4] > + > + @ SDRAM command is NOP or COMMAND_INHIBIT, SDRAM CONTROLLER: PWRDNX > + > + @ Delay with clock running > + mov r0, r3 > + mov r1, r4 > + mov r2, r6 > + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 > + mov r3, r0 > + mov r4, r1 > + mov r6, r2 > + > + @ SDRAM CONTROLLER: the move from "PWRDNX" to "IDLE" is automatic > + @ SDRAM command is COMMAND_INHIBIT (NOP) > + > + > + @ For SDRAM, the first refresh command will also cause a PAL (Precharge All banks) > + @ before the CBR (auto refresh) > + > + @ Cause CBR DRAM/SDRAM cycles to be run by non-burst read of any disabled DRAM/SDRAM bank > + mov r4, #0xC0000000 > + > + @ Loop for selected number of CBR (SDRAM auto refresh) refresh cycles > + mov r7, #16 > +10: > + @ Trigger CBR refresh by causing a non-burst read from a disabled DRAM/SDRAM bank > + ldr r0, [r4] > + > + @ Wait for refresh to complete > + > + mov r0, r3 > + mov r1, r4 > + mov r2, r6 > + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 > + mov r3, r0 > + mov r4, r1 > + mov r6, r2 > + > + subs r7, r7, #1 > + bne 10b > + > + > + @ Select proper MDCNFG register value for the chosen CPU speed > + mov r1, #0x71000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x500000 > + add r1, r1, #0xb200 > + add r1, r1, #0x55 > + > + @ enable DRAM/SDRAM banks, for SDRAM this will also cause a MRS command which programs the SDRAM mode register > + mov r0, #0xa0000000 > + str r1, [r0] > + > + @ Wait a bit more > + mov r0, r3 > + mov r1, r4 > + mov r2, r6 > + bl tenthSecDelay @ Trashes r3,4,6 > + mov r3, r0 > + mov r4, r1 > + mov r6, r2 > + > + @ Turn on auto power down bits > +@ orr r5, r5, #(DRAM_MDREFR_VALUE_0:AND:(EAPD:OR:KAPD)) > + orr r5, r5, #0x30000000 > + str r5, [r4] > + > +/* All SDRAM memory settings should be ready to go... */ > +/* For best performance, should fill out remaining memory config regs: */ > + > + > + /* Testing ,Chester */ > + mov r3,#0x12000000 > + mov r2,#0x5000 @ D9_LED on and D8_LED off > + str r2,[r3] > + mov r4, #0x20000 > +gogogo2: > + subs r4, r4, #1 > + bne gogogo2 > + > + > + /* modified by Chester ,using serial port 1 on Assabet */ > + ldr r0,=0x80020060 @GPCLK/UART select,select UART > + mov r2,#1 > + str r2,[r0] > + > + /* Now clear all 'sticky' bits in serial I registers, cf. [1] 11.11 */ > + mov r1, #0x80000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x10000 > + mov r2, #0xFF > + str r2, [r1, #0x1C] > + > + /* Set the serial port to sensible defaults: no break, no interrupts, */ > + /* no parity, 8 databits, 1 stopbit. */ > + mov r2, #0x00 > + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] > + mov r2, #0x08 > + str r2, [r1, #0x00] > + > + /* Set BRD to 5, for a baudrate of 38k4 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */ > + /* Set BRD to 23, for a baudrate of 9k6 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */ > + mov r2, #0x00 > + str r2, [r1, #0x04] > + mov r2, #23 > + str r2, [r1, #0x08] > + > + /* Initialize the GPDR (GPIO Pin Direction Register) in such a > + way that the LED is on an output port */ > + > + /* load the GPIO base in r2 */ > + mov r2, #0x90000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x40000 > + > + /* Bit 23 is the LED, according to JDB, but 17 on Zilker */ > +/* mov r1, #0x00800000 */ > + mov r1, #0x00020000 > + str r1, [r2, #0x04] > + > + /* The LED controls FORCE_ON, so turn it on here */ > + str r1, [r2, #0x08] > + > + /* Prepare to send some characters out in a loop */ > + mov r1, #0x80000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x10000 > + > + /* Enable the transmitter */ > + mov r2, #0x02 > + str r2, [r1, #0x0C] > + > + /* Send out a welcome message */ > + adr r0, welcome > + bl print_str > + > + /* Determine whether this code runs from main flash or external flash */ > + /* Clue: Main flash is 32 bit, external is 16 bit. */ > +/* don't do this for Assabet: > + mov r1, #0xA0000000 > + ldr r0, [r1, #0x10] > + ands r0, r0, #0x04 > + bne cpy_ext2int > +*/ > + /* Put the main flash to the correct speed */ > + > +/* again, not for Assabet since we are already at full speed. > + mov r1, #0xA0000000 > + mov r2, #0x6D000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00680000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00006D00 > + add r2, r2, #0x00000068 > + str r2, [r1, #0x10] @ MSC0 (for 160S3 flash chips) > +*/ > + > + adr r0, int_flash_str > + bl print_str > + > +test_mem: > + /* Start the memory tester, hardcoded bank 0 & 1 for now */ > + adr r0, start_test > + bl print_str > + > + /* Erase memory */ > + adr r0, zeroing_mem > + bl print_str > + > + mov r4, #0xC0000000 > + mov r5, #0xD0000000 > + mov r6, #0x400000 > + sub r6, r6, #0x01 > + > + mov r0, r4 > + bl print_hex > + > +zero_loop: > + mov r0, #0x0 > + mov r1, #0x0 > + mov r2, #0x0 > + mov r3, #0x0 > + mov r7, #0x0 > + mov r8, #0x0 > + mov r9, #0x0 > + mov r10, #0x0 > +zero_loop1: > + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} > + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} > + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} > + stmia r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10} > + tst r4, r6 > + bne zero_loop1 > + adr r0, del10 > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r4 > + bl print_hex > + cmp r4, r5 > + blt zero_loop > + > + adr r0, zeroing_done > + bl print_str > + > + mov r4, #0xC0000000 > + mov r5, #0xD0000000 > + mov r6, r4 /* Base for current block */ > + mov r7, #0x0 /* Diff between r4 and [r4] */ > + > + /* Go hunting for aliases */ > + > +alias_loop: > + ldr r8, [r4] > + cmp r8, #0x0 > + streq r4, [r4] /* If the value was zero, load r4 to it */ > + moveq r8, r4 > + sub r9, r4, r8 > + cmp r9, r7 /* Is this a new block ? */ > + bne alias_detected > + add r4, r4, #0x1000 > + cmp r4, r5 > + blt alias_loop > + b alias_done > + > +alias_detected: > + > + adr r0, block_at_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r6 > + bl print_hex > + adr r0, length_str > + bl print_str > + sub r0, r4, r6 > + bl print_hex > + sub r8, r6, r7 > + cmp r7, #0x0 /* Is this a 'new' block ? */ > + moveq r10, r6 /* If so, remember the start of this block...*/ > + moveq r11, r4 /* ...and the start of the next block */ > + mov r6, r4 > + mov r7, r9 > + beq alias_loop > + adr r0, alias_for_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r8 > + bl print_hex > + b alias_loop > + > +alias_done: > + > + /* Set up the stack pointer */ > + sub sp, r11, #0x04 > + > + /* Arg 0 of the C code is the start of the block it can use; */ > + /* arg 1 is the size of that block. */ > + mov r0, r10 > + sub r1, r11, r10 > + > + /* Testing ,Chester*/ > + mov r3,#0x12000000 > + mov r2,#0x7800 @ D9_LED off and D8_LED off > + str r2,[r3] > + mov r3, #0x50000 > +gogogo6: > + subs r3, r3, #1 > +bne gogogo6 > + > + /* Jump to the C code */ > +jump_to_c: > + bl c_main > + > + /* The c code should never return ! */ > + /* (but if it does, we want to know about it...) */ > + adr r0, main_prog_abort > + bl print_str > + b reset > + > + > +blinky: > + /* The old blinker */ > + mov r2, #0x90000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x40000 > + mov r1, #0x00020000 > + > +old_led_on: > + /* turn on the LED by writing the GPSR (GPIO Pin output Set > + Register) */ > + str r1, [r2, #0x08] > + mov r4, #0x10000 > +loop1: > + subs r4, r4, #1 > + bne loop1 > + > +old_led_off: > + /* turn off the LED by writing the GPCR (GPIO Pin output Clear > + Register) */ > + str r1, [r2, #0x0c] > + > + mov r4, #0x10000 > +loop2: > + subs r4, r4, #1 > + bne loop2 > + > + /* and loop forever */ > + b old_led_on > + > + > +.align 4 > +welcome: > + .string "\n\r\n\rBLOB boot loader for Assabet Linux, v0.1.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +int_flash_str: > + .string "Running from internal Flash.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +start_test: > + .string "Starting the memory tester...\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +zeroing_mem: > + .string "Zeroing memory..." > + > +.align 4 > +zeroing_done: > + .string "\n\rZeroing done.Testing aliases\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +main_prog_abort: > + .string "\n\rMain function aborted!\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +del10: > + .string "\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b" > + > +.align 4 > +block_at_str: > + .string "\n\rBlock at " > + > +.align 4 > +length_str: > + .string " with length " > + > +.align 4 > +alias_for_str: > + .string " is an alias of " > +.align 4 > + > + /* Subroutine that sends a string over the serial port */ > + /* The address of the string should be in r0 */ > +print_str: > + /* Save the return address */ > + mov r13, r14 > + mov r2, r0 > +prs1: > + ldrsb r0, [r2] > + add r2, r2, #0x01 > + ands r0, r0, #0xFF > + beq prs2 > + bl print_byte > + b prs1 > + > +prs2: > + /* Return */ > + mov pc, r13 > + > + > + /* Subroutine to send a hex word (in r0) over the serial port */ > +print_hex: > + mov r13, r14 > + mov r2, r0 > + mov r3, #0x08 > + mov r0, #0x30 > + bl print_byte > + mov r0, #0x78 > + bl print_byte > +prh1: > + and r0, r2, #0xF0000000 > + mov r0, r0, lsr #28 > + add r0, r0, #0x30 > + cmp r0, #0x3A > + addge r0, r0, #0x07 > + bl print_byte > + mov r2, r2, lsl #4 > + subs r3, r3, #0x01 > + bne prh1 > + > + mov pc, r13 > + > + /* Subroutine that sends a byte over the serial port. */ > + /* The byte is in r0 */ > +print_byte: > + /* Wait for room in the tx fifo */ > + mov r1, #0x80000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x10000 > + ldr r1, [r1, #0x1C] > + ands r1, r1, #0x01 > + beq print_byte > + > + mov r1, #0x80000000 > + add r1, r1, #0x10000 > + str r0, [r1, #0x14] > + mov pc, r14 > + > + > +cpy_ext2int: > + > + /* Put the Flash to the correct speed */ > + mov r1, #0xA0000000 > + mov r2, #0x48000000 > + add r2, r2, #0x00680000 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000AD00 > + add r2, r2, #0x0000006C > + str r2, [r1, #0x10] > + > + adr r0, ext_flash_str > + bl print_str > + > + /* Get the ID of the internal flash */ > + mov r0, #0x0090 > + add r0, r0, #0x00900000 > + bl data_to_flash > + mov r4, #0x08000000 > + str r0, [r4] > + ldr r0, [r4] > + bl data_from_flash > + mov r5, r0 > + ldr r0, [r4, #0x04] > + bl data_from_flash > + mov r6, r0 > + mov r3, #0x0089 > + add r3, r3, #0x00890000 > + cmp r3, r5 > + beq flash_man_ok > + adr r0, int_unknown_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r5 > + bl print_hex > + b cpy_exit > +flash_man_ok: > + adr r0, int_intel_str > + bl print_str > + mov r3, #0x88000000 > + add r3, r3, #0x00F40000 > + add r3, r3, #0x00008800 > + add r3, r3, #0x000000F4 > + cmp r3, r6 > + beq flash_dev_ok > + adr r0, int_unknown2_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r6 > + bl print_hex > + b cpy_exit > +flash_dev_ok: > + adr r0, int_16m_b_str > + bl print_str > + > + /* Find the size of the data in the external flash */ > + mov r5, #0x020000 /* Sod it, we hardcode it to 128k */ > + > + /* Erase blocks in the internal flash, when needed */ > + mov r4, #0x08000000 > + add r6, r4, r5 > + > + mov r0, #0x00500000 > + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r4] > + > +erase_loop: > + /* switch to read array mode, if we're not there already */ > + mov r0, #0x00FF0000 > + add r0, r0, #0x000000FF > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r4] > + ldr r0, [r4] > + cmn r0, #0x01 > + beq no_erase > + adr r0, erase_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r4 > + bl print_hex > + mov r0, #0x00200000 > + add r0, r0, #0x00000020 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r4] > + mov r0, #0x00D00000 > + add r0, r0, #0x000000D0 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r4] > + bl wait_status > + mov r3, #0x00200000 > + add r3, r3, #0x00000020 > + tst r0, r3 > + beq erase_ok > + bl print_hex > + adr r0, erase_err_str > + bl print_str > + b cpy_exit > +erase_ok: > + adr r0, erase_end_str > + bl print_str > +no_erase: > + add r4, r4, #0x04 > + cmp r4, r6 > + blt erase_loop > + > + /* Write blocks to the internal flash */ > + mov r4, #0x00 > + > + mov r0, #0x00500000 > + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r4] > + > + adr r0, write_start_str > + bl print_str > + > +write_loop: > + ldr r7, [r4] > + cmn r7, #0x01 > + beq no_write > + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 > + mov r0, #0x00400000 > + add r0, r0, #0x00000040 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r6] > + str r7, [r6] > + bl wait_status > + mov r3, #0x00100000 > + add r3, r3, #0x00000010 > + tst r0, r3 > + beq no_write > + mov r7, r0 > + adr r0, write_err1_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r7 > + bl print_hex > + adr r0, write_err2_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r6 > + bl print_hex > + b cpy_exit > +no_write: > + add r4, r4, #0x04 > + cmp r4, r5 > + blt write_loop > + > + /* Verify blocks written to the internal flash */ > + mov r4, #0x00 > + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 > + > + mov r0, #0x00500000 > + add r0, r0, #0x00000050 > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r6] > + > + mov r0, #0x00FF0000 > + add r0, r0, #0x000000FF > + bl data_to_flash > + str r0, [r6] > + > + adr r0, vrfy_start_str > + bl print_str > + > +vrfy_loop: > + ldr r7, [r4] > + add r6, r4, #0x08000000 > + ldr r8, [r6] > + cmp r7, r8 > + beq next_vrfy > + adr r0, vrfy_err1_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r6 > + bl print_hex > + adr r0, vrfy_err2_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r7 > + bl print_hex > + adr r0, vrfy_err3_str > + bl print_str > + mov r0, r8 > + bl print_hex > + b cpy_exit > +next_vrfy: > + add r4, r4, #0x04 > + cmp r4, r5 > + blt vrfy_loop > + > + adr r0, cpy_done_str > + bl print_str > + > +cpy_exit: > + b test_mem > + > +.align 4 > +ext_flash_str: > + .string "Running from external flash.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +int_intel_str: > + .string "Internal flash manufacturer: Intel.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +int_unknown_str: > + .string "Error: Unknown internal flash manufacturer ID " > + > +.align 4 > +int_16m_b_str: > + .string "Internal flash devices: 2 x 28F160F3 16Mbit bottom flash.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +int_unknown2_str: > + .string "Error: Unknown internal flash devices ID " > + > +.align 4 > +erase_str: > + .string "Erasing block at " > + > +.align 4 > +erase_err_str: > + .string " <- error !\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +erase_end_str: > + .string " done.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +write_start_str: > + .string "Writing data...\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +write_err1_str: > + .string "Error " > + > +.align 4 > +write_err2_str: > + .string " at " > + > +.align 4 > +vrfy_start_str: > + .string "Verifying data...\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > +vrfy_err1_str: > + .string "Verify error at address " > + > +.align 4 > +vrfy_err2_str: > + .string "; expected : " > + > +.align 4 > +vrfy_err3_str: > + .string "; found : " > + > +.align 4 > +cpy_done_str: > + .string "Copying done.\n\r" > + > +.align 4 > + /* Wait for the status of *both* internal flash devices to be ready. */ > + /* Returns the status in r0. */ > +wait_status: > + mov r13, r14 > +wait_status_loop: > + mov r0, #0x00700000 > + add r0, r0, #0x0070 > + bl data_to_flash > + mov r1, #0x08000000 > + str r0, [r1] > + ldr r0, [r1] > + bl data_from_flash > + tst r0, #0x00000080 > + tstne r0, #0x00800000 > + beq wait_status_loop > + mov pc, r13 > + > +.globl data_to_flash > +.globl data_from_flash > + /* Subroutine that takes data in r0 and formats it so it will be in */ > + /* the correct order for the internal flash */ > +data_to_flash: > + mov r1, #0x0 > + > + tst r0, #0x00000001 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00001000 > + tst r0, #0x00000002 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00004000 > + tst r0, #0x00000004 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000800 > + tst r0, #0x00000008 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000200 > + tst r0, #0x00000010 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000001 > + tst r0, #0x00000020 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000004 > + tst r0, #0x00000040 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000080 > + tst r0, #0x00000080 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000020 > + > + tst r0, #0x00000100 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00002000 > + tst r0, #0x00000200 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00008000 > + tst r0, #0x00000400 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000400 > + tst r0, #0x00000800 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000100 > + tst r0, #0x00001000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000002 > + tst r0, #0x00002000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000008 > + tst r0, #0x00004000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000040 > + tst r0, #0x00008000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000010 > + > + tst r0, #0x00010000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00100000 > + tst r0, #0x00020000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00400000 > + tst r0, #0x00040000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00080000 > + tst r0, #0x00080000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00020000 > + tst r0, #0x00100000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x01000000 > + tst r0, #0x00200000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x04000000 > + tst r0, #0x00400000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x80000000 > + tst r0, #0x00800000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x20000000 > + > + tst r0, #0x01000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00200000 > + tst r0, #0x02000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00800000 > + tst r0, #0x04000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00040000 > + tst r0, #0x08000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00010000 > + tst r0, #0x10000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x02000000 > + tst r0, #0x20000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x08000000 > + tst r0, #0x40000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x40000000 > + tst r0, #0x80000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x10000000 > + > + mov r0, r1 > + mov pc, r14 > + > + /* Takes data received from the flash, and unshuffles it. */ > +data_from_flash: > + mov r1, #0x00 > + > + tst r0, #0x00000001 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000010 > + tst r0, #0x00000002 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00001000 > + tst r0, #0x00000004 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000020 > + tst r0, #0x00000008 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00002000 > + tst r0, #0x00000010 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00008000 > + tst r0, #0x00000020 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000080 > + tst r0, #0x00000040 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00004000 > + tst r0, #0x00000080 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000040 > + > + tst r0, #0x00000100 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000800 > + tst r0, #0x00000200 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000008 > + tst r0, #0x00000400 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000400 > + tst r0, #0x00000800 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000004 > + tst r0, #0x00001000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000001 > + tst r0, #0x00002000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000100 > + tst r0, #0x00004000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000002 > + tst r0, #0x00008000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00000200 > + > + tst r0, #0x00010000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x08000000 > + tst r0, #0x00020000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00080000 > + tst r0, #0x00040000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x04000000 > + tst r0, #0x00080000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00040000 > + tst r0, #0x00100000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00010000 > + tst r0, #0x00200000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x01000000 > + tst r0, #0x00400000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00020000 > + tst r0, #0x00800000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x02000000 > + > + tst r0, #0x01000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00100000 > + tst r0, #0x02000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x10000000 > + tst r0, #0x04000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00200000 > + tst r0, #0x08000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x20000000 > + tst r0, #0x10000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x80000000 > + tst r0, #0x20000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00800000 > + tst r0, #0x40000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x40000000 > + tst r0, #0x80000000 > + orrne r1, r1, #0x00400000 > + > + mov r0, r1 > + mov pc, r14 > + > + > + > +undefined_instruction: > + > + mov r12, lr @store addr of bad instruction > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xaa000000 > +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + str r12, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + b 1b > + > +software_interrupt: > + > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xbb000000 > + str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + b software_interrupt > + > +abort_prefetch: > + > + mov r12, lr > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xcc000000 > +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + str r12, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + b 1b > + > +abort_data: > + > + mov r12, lr > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xdd000000 > +1: str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + str r12, [r10, #0x10] > + bl oneSecDelay > + b 1b > + > +not_used: > + > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xee000000 > + str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + b not_used > + > +irq: > + > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xf1000000 > + str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + b irq > + > +fiq: > + mov r10, #0x10000000 > + mov r11, #0xf2000000 > + str r11, [r10, #0x10] > + b fiq > + > +oneSecDelay: > + mov r3, #0x90000000 > + add r3, r3, #0x10000 > + ldr r4, [r3, #0x4] @get initial value > +1: ldr r6, [r3, #0x4] > + sub r6, r6, r4 > + cmp r6, #0x8000 > + ble 1b > + mov pc, lr > + > +tenthSecDelay: /* Well, actually not that much :) */ > + mov r3, #0x90000000 > + add r3, r3, #0x10000 > + ldr r4, [r3, #0x4] > +1: ldr r6, [r3, #0x4] > + sub r6, r6, r4 > + cmp r6, #0xc0 > + ble 1b > + mov pc, lr > + > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 04:04:51 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA14547 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:04:51 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA14543 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:04:50 +0200 Received: from bucky.excite.com (bucky-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.218]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20760 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:04:48 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ally.excite.com ([199.172.148.156]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000610020306.HKRW3377.bucky.excite.com@ally.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:03:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3055440.960602586306.JavaMail.imail@ally.excite.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:03:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnathan Leppert To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: economics of LART, Intel SA in general Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.67.118.162 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Just as a reference point when I last talked to the Intel rep >the > new 600MHZ SA1110s are expected to be running for ~$45 in low ( >but not > single unit ) quantities. Really? This sounds very interesting. 600 MHz is some serious power, almost to the point of information appliance 'embeddedness'. What? Your refrigerator plays Quake? Does the current version of LART support it, or is a revision planned when Intel releases the spec? Thanks, Johnathan On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:14:17 -0700 (PDT), Aaron Toney wrote: > > > It appears that this Intel part is *quite* expensive for what you are > > getting. Obviously in single quantities, it doesnt matter "too" much what is > > the cost. But, I'm seeing >$85** in single quantities maybe dropping to (who > > knows?) $20-$35 in high quantities. > > > > That seems very expensive to me for embedded applications. I normally do a > ........ > > economic consensus among those who might be listening? Is LART and SA > > really a good economic deal? Maybe the costs of the CPU are much lower in > > high quantities? > ........ > > Just as a reference point when I last talked to the Intel rep the > new 600MHZ SA1110s are expected to be running for ~$45 in low ( but not > single unit ) quantities. I am using the SA1110 prices since the SA1100 is > being phased out and its cost is going to keep going up and up while LART > while it is my understanding that eventually move to the SA1110. It is > REALLY hard to beat that cost point using a DSP or even a really large > FPGA/PLD of some kind. Sure the processor is cheaper but in implementing a > general purpose system like LART or PLEB you would end up picking up the > cost in extra the components needed to support your perhips. > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 08:44:55 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14822 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:44:55 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14818 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:44:53 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25460 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:44:51 +0200 (METDST) Received: from wea ([24.114.126.210]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000610064412.OQK18275.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@wea> for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:44:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bfd2a7$5f587fb0$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> From: "yassino" To: Subject: Beowolf LART Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:44:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi. Ok maybe i went a bit too far from this circle last time. That is why nobody had a comment on it. Or maybe it was the spelling ! Is it correct now ? Or was it the large figures ? Let me expalin why. FIrst of all there is no doubt in my mind that the future of multiprocessor computing will take a new era when people will discover these cheap nodes that they can build themself at the fraction of the cost of a normal PC.Imagine being able to build one node for $100 (and that is over exagerated to include the extra cost of network infrastructure and peripherals with no lcd's of course). With only 10 customers you could also order 1000 qty parts. A 100 node will cost you $10000 !! Let me say that this is peanuts for some buyers. They will expect a descent machine to start from $50000 at the very least. So long as this machine does something useful and reliable they will be happy to buy it. Here is where you come in. I f you can make an application that runs on this 100 node system you can sell the application and the box for 25000 and the customer will be happy. The point is that you have to demonstrate the capability of your box. There are so many ways one can benefit from a 100 node system. The possibilities are limitless. So coming to my example once you do a 100 node system the next step would be a 1000 or 2*500 and you start ordering 5 figures qty etc ... You see what i mean now ? My company would be very interested in doing a 100 node system once i show them what they can do with this thing. They would really not be interested in the hardware part , all they care is that i come up with a cmplete solution to their problem. My dream is to have these LART's as a little hand pocket calculator's with an external connector in order to stack them. Then I can use them for video/voice processing , OpenGL etc ... A virtual DSP in user land . And yes i could also stack 10 of them to cross compile xf86 in 10 min ! -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 11:26:33 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14942 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:26:33 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14938 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:26:32 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28280 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:26:30 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6CA7480D; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:23:58 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:23:58 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: yassino Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Beowolf LART In-Reply-To: <000301bfd2a7$5f587fb0$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, yassino wrote: > My dream is to have these LART's as a little hand pocket calculator's with > an external connector in order to stack them. Then I can use them for > video/voice processing , OpenGL etc ... A virtual DSP in user land . And yes > i could also stack 10 of them to cross compile xf86 in 10 min ! For computationally intensive tasks you'd be better off with more conventional hardware. I can go out and buy a hundred Sock7 boards with onboard 100Mbit ether with processors for 100ukp each, which are going to be faster than the SA-1100 boards would be. (SA-1100 has lousy floating point, for most of your applications this would be a major issue...) Admittedly, the commodity PC boards are going to burn more power than the StrongARM solution would, but that's not really an issue when you're building a supercomputer, is it? Certainly never worried Seymour Cray... kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 12:20:30 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15003 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:20:30 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14999 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:20:29 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29190 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:20:27 +0200 (METDST) Received: from wea ([24.114.126.210]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000610101948.PBQ18275.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@wea>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:19:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bfd2c5$7cdd2040$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> From: "yassino" To: "Kira Brown" Cc: Subject: Re: Beowolf LART Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 06:20:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >For computationally intensive tasks you'd be better off with more >conventional hardware. I can go out and buy a hundred Sock7 boards with >onboard 100Mbit ether with processors for 100ukp each, which are going to $150 each ? You mean off the shelf not based on qty ? and how about the mem ? and power ? >be faster than the SA-1100 boards would be. (SA-1100 has lousy floating >point, for most of your applications this would be a major issue...) Ok i agree with you there . maybe not OpenGL. But in the application that i am building there is really no need for floating point so who cares ! > >Admittedly, the commodity PC boards are going to burn more power than the >StrongARM solution would, but that's not really an issue when you're >building a supercomputer, is it? Certainly never worried Seymour Cray... The fact that you cannot carry a 100 node system on your bag also !! why would you need that anyway ? Seriously i am starting to thing about how i am going to make the eth connections. I am myself new into this clustering business so any help would be apreciated. I have to make sure that minimal or no collision will hapen on the ethernet bus so that i can reach max thougput. here are the possible options: 1) just go with eth and pray that it works (most easy) 2) There seems to be a company (myrinet) that has develped a transport layer for clusters and the code is open sourced. The products are a bit expensive. 3) come up with my own TDM based high speed shared bus. (out of my league). Basically what i want to achieve is a node with a high availability. The server that i am writing has to parse a very high volume of trafic. So the whole application is based on parralelizing the parsing into small tasks. No fancy floating points involved. If i can achieve a zero (or close to zero) collision i will be happy. If any one can enlighten to more elegant solutions i will be delighted. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 13:14:16 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15111 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:14:16 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15107 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:14:15 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00170 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:13:57 +0200 (METDST) Received: from [203.197.20.136] (mukund@[203.197.20.136]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07584 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:40:16 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:46:57 +0530 (IST) From: Mukund Reply-To: Mukund To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Beowolf LART In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Kira Brown wrote: > be faster than the SA-1100 boards would be. (SA-1100 has lousy floating > point, for most of your applications this would be a major issue...) > the sa-1100 has... er, no floating point? hmm yes. you definitely have a point about not building clusters using lart. to everybody who's thinking of building clusters using larts, think again.. the lart was never meant for clustering. besides, there are other factors influencing clustering, which a lart cannot handle. even computationally, you're better off investing in cpus like celerons rather than the sa-1100 for performance. chief advantages of the lart are its low power consumption, system integration in a small sized unit (handy in those hard to fit places). there are obviously other advantates also. cheers muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 13:34:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15154 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:34:31 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15150 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:34:30 +0200 Received: from mail.linuxgrrls.org (postfix@[62.6.164.226]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00533 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:34:29 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxgrrls.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246C37480D; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:32:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:32:05 +0100 (BST) From: Kira Brown To: yassino Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Beowolf LART In-Reply-To: <000c01bfd2c5$7cdd2040$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, yassino wrote: > >For computationally intensive tasks you'd be better off with more > >conventional hardware. I can go out and buy a hundred Sock7 boards with > >onboard 100Mbit ether with processors for 100ukp each, which are going to > > $150 each ? You mean off the shelf not based on qty ? and how about the mem > ? and power ? That's including 64Mbytes of commodity SDRAM and a power supply for every four boards- you can run four boards off a single PSU :-) > >building a supercomputer, is it? Certainly never worried Seymour Cray... > The fact that you cannot carry a 100 node system on your bag also !! why > would you need that anyway ? You couldn't do that with LART either. 100 LART boards would be quite large. kira. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 18:00:47 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15450 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:00:47 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15446 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:00:46 +0200 Received: from mx2.magma.ca (mx2.magma.ca [206.191.0.250]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05148 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:00:44 +0200 (METDST) Received: from mail6.magma.ca (mail6.magma.ca [206.191.0.248]) by mx2.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12964 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from terus.envmtl.com ([206.191.19.2]) by mail6.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16906 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3942661C.A56EA37E@terus.envmtl.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:00:29 -0400 From: "T.Sullivan" Organization: Terus Environmental Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: economics of LART, Intel SA in general References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Aaron Toney wrote: > > It appears that this Intel part is *quite* expensive for what you are > > getting. Obviously in single quantities, it doesnt matter "too" much what is > > the cost. But, I'm seeing >$85** in single quantities maybe dropping to (who > > knows?) $20-$35 in high quantities. > > > > That seems very expensive to me for embedded applications. I normally do a > ........ > > economic consensus among those who might be listening? Is LART and SA > > really a good economic deal? Maybe the costs of the CPU are much lower in > > high quantities? > ........ > > Just as a reference point when I last talked to the Intel rep the > new 600MHZ SA1110s are expected to be running for ~$45 in low ( but not > single unit ) quantities. The only StrongArm's I'm aware of that are going to 600MHz are SA-2s. Due in no small part to the fact that Intel is re-engineering certain "uniqueness" in DECs fabrication process (of which SA-1xxx are examples) and also moving to 0.18 technology...Certainly its interesting that your Intel Rep is giving you pricing - does he/she have a date when samples are going to be available as well ? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 18:13:57 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15477 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:13:57 +0200 Received: from ns1.tudelft.nl (ns1.tudelft.nl [130.161.180.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15473 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:13:57 +0200 Received: from comanchetx.com (mail.comanchetx.com [63.64.122.61]) by mailhost2.tudelft.nl (PMDF V5.2-33 #42431) with ESMTP id <0FVY0095A53711@mailhost2.tudelft.nl> for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:13:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mjv.com [63.64.123.84] by comanchetx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A89F5F22013E; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:11:11 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:19:57 -0500 From: Michael Vanecek Subject: Re: Beowolf LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-id: <39426AAD.6C08178D@mjv.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Uhm, if I remember a post a few hundred back, clustering of the LART is actually high on the developer's priority. Why else the 4-port Eth? And they're no doubt working on interconnects that's faster than that. A small desktop cluster is very appealing and would be good for modest tasks and for the budget minded - schools will no doubt be interested for teaching parallel programming and having a bunch of micro-clusters available for their students... Mike Mukund wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Kira Brown wrote: > > > be faster than the SA-1100 boards would be. (SA-1100 has lousy floating > > point, for most of your applications this would be a major issue...) > > > > the sa-1100 has... er, no floating point? > > hmm yes. you definitely have a point about not building > clusters using lart. > > to everybody who's thinking of building clusters using > larts, think again.. the lart was never meant for clustering. > besides, there are other factors influencing clustering, > which a lart cannot handle. even computationally, you're > better off investing in cpus like celerons rather than the > sa-1100 for performance. > > chief advantages of the lart are its low power consumption, > system integration in a small sized unit (handy in those > hard to fit places). there are obviously other advantates also. > > cheers > muks > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 19:58:11 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15590 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:58:11 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15586 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:58:10 +0200 Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07295 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:58:08 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cardionet.com (216.55.130.140) by mail0.mailsender.net (5.1.034) id 393FDA1F00071773 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <39428091.7760AFBC@cardionet.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:53:21 -0700 From: Wallace Owen Reply-To: owen@cardionet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Beowolf LART References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk I see a different role for SA1100/SA1110 in Beowulf clusters. A PCI card with two 100baseTX chips and a StrongARM as a communications processor used in each node of a cluster of commodity PCs, used to connect the machines in a 2D mesh. Let the Celerons/Athlons/PIIIs do the number crunching, and let them leave all the communication tasks to the StrongARM processors. There was an effort a couple of years ago to develop what was being called SA-Beowulf: A 4- or 6-processor StrongARM-based PCI card. They took it to the point that initial boards were made. The thought was to put as many as four boards in a PC. I think the effort faded, possibly because during the same period of time the Intel-type machines went from 200 to 650 MHz. with prices about the same. BTW, I remember hearing my Intel rep say there was floating point in the future for StrongARM. Mukund wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Kira Brown wrote: > > > be faster than the SA-1100 boards would be. (SA-1100 has lousy floating > > point, for most of your applications this would be a major issue...) > > > > the sa-1100 has... er, no floating point? > > hmm yes. you definitely have a point about not building > clusters using lart. > > to everybody who's thinking of building clusters using > larts, think again.. the lart was never meant for clustering. > besides, there are other factors influencing clustering, > which a lart cannot handle. even computationally, you're > better off investing in cpus like celerons rather than the > sa-1100 for performance. > > chief advantages of the lart are its low power consumption, > system integration in a small sized unit (handy in those > hard to fit places). there are obviously other advantates also. > > cheers > muks > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sat Jun 10 20:05:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15617 for lart-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:05:31 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15613 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:05:30 +0200 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07419 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:05:26 +0200 (METDST) Received: from muks ([203.197.21.12]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA31814; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:29:24 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <001a01bfd305$de7b8f40$0c15c5cb@muks> From: "Mukund Iyer" To: "Michael Vanecek" Cc: References: <39426AAD.6C08178D@mjv.com> Subject: Re: Beowolf LART Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:31:13 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk From: Michael Vanecek > Uhm, if I remember a post a few hundred back, clustering of the LART is > actually high on the developer's priority. Why else the 4-port Eth? And > they're no doubt working on interconnects that's faster than that. A > small desktop cluster is very appealing and would be good for modest > tasks and for the budget minded - schools will no doubt be interested > for teaching parallel programming and having a bunch of micro-clusters > available for their students... > um.. maybe you're right about the developers. having a tiny cluster is an appealing thing. but for schools, etc. with modest budgets, don't you think cheaper/faster clusters are possible using standard archs? i mean, there was a posting on slashdot recently about how someone built a very cheap freebsd cluster using AMD K6 CPUs. these may be second hand components, but the cluster was built. the availability and low cost of PC motherboards beats that of lart. there are a lot of things which are taken into consideration when even a non-performing cluster [for educational purposes for example] is built. for example, what happens if a lart node fails? [n nodes = MBTF/n]. if it is built using standard PC components, it can be maintained easily, cheaply and in good time. anyway, the choice of architecture is again dependent on your application. if you want to build a lart cluster, and feel right about it, go ahead by all means. if we don't step out, we'll never. cheers muks -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Jun 11 06:04:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA16735 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 06:04:14 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA16731 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 06:04:12 +0200 Received: from mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.106]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16498 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 06:04:08 +0200 (METDST) Received: from soo3olyhtnkad71 (wdcax3-154.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.248.154]) by mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19831 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:03:07 +1000 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:02:31 +1000 X-Priority: 3 From: Matt Donohoe X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: subscribe lart Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.55 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matt TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Jun 11 07:13:32 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16837 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:13:32 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16833 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:13:31 +0200 Received: from mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.105]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17221 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:13:27 +0200 (METDST) Received: from soo3olyhtnkad71 (wdcax3-154.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.248.154]) by mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08290 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:12:14 +1000 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:11:38 +1000 X-Priority: 3 From: Matt Donohoe X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LART Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.55 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Sorry boys and girls for the earlier post, my mistake if it actually made it to the board... I am wondering, would it be easy to expand the DRAM currently available on LART ? Would it be as simple as just adding it, and wiring it to the same pin-configurations as the other 4 ? LART is the best open-hardware project that I have ever seen on the internet... It's use of the StrongARM project is not something that I have seen very much, I hope to learn alot from this board and building LART. I am just ordering the crucial components (CPU/Memory/Flash).... The Flash memory concept is a new one that I have not seen taken before, I only used to see EEPROMs and EPROMs being used... Anyway, enough blabbing out of me, my question is up the top... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matt TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Jun 11 10:02:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17072 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:02:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17068 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:02:07 +0200 Received: from caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (root@p52-cordelia-gui.tch.enablis.net [212.250.233.52]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19127 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:02:05 +0200 (METDST) Received: from flint.arm.linux.org.uk (root@flint [192.168.0.4]) by caramon.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15682; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:01:58 +0100 Received: (from linux@localhost) by flint.arm.linux.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01743; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:58:02 +0100 From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin Message-Id: <200006110758.IAA01743@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Subject: Re: Flushing I/D caches from userspace To: nico@cam.org (Nicolas Pitre) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:58:02 +0100 (BST) Cc: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (J.D. Bakker), linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: from "Nicolas Pitre" at Jun 08, 2000 08:42:09 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Nicolas Pitre writes: > Isn't a syscall for that? Yes there is. Number 0x9f0002: r0 = start r1 = length r2 = flags bit 0 - flush I cache as well. _____ |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+- | | Russell King linux@arm.linux.org.uk --- --- | | | | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/ / / | | +-+-+ --- -+- / | THE developer of ARM Linux |+| /|\ / | | | --- | +-+-+ ------------------------------------------------- /\\\ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Sun Jun 11 14:19:54 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17454 for lart-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:19:54 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17449; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:19:42 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:19:23 +0200 To: Matt Donohoe From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 07:11 +0200 11-06-2000, Matt Donohoe wrote: >I am wondering, would it be easy to expand the DRAM currently available on >LART >? Would it be as simple as just adding it, and wiring it to the same >pin-configurations >as the other 4 ? We have an 64MB expansion board that plugs into the high speed connector. Two of these can be stacked for a maximum memory capacity of 160MB. We haven't taught blob or the kernel about this extra memory yet though; this will happen as soon as Erik is back. JDB [who will post the schematics once he finds one of those round tuits that are in such short supply these days] -- "A satisfied customer ? We ought to have him stuffed !" -- Basil Fawlty -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 01:19:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA18656 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:19:49 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA18651; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:19:42 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:16:31 +0200 To: Matt Donohoe From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [cc-ed to the LART list] >Do you think that it is possible to add it directly to the board? To add what directly to the board ? >Is there any 'easy' way of loading the LART for the first time ? >I could not find the schematics for that cable that they talked about and >I thought that >I'd ask what is required to do it... A JTAG cable and software is the simplest way. All you need is a parallel port cable and a 5v->3v3 level converter; the LART JTAG port provides the power for the converter. Note there is no JTAG software for the LART yet; it should not be too hard to port Intel's software for their devel platform though. We use a bootable piggybacked Flash board for initial programming; that's an ugly hack though. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 01:28:34 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA18706 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:28:34 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA18702 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:28:34 +0200 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02490 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:28:32 +0200 (METDST) Received: from modem-78.antimony.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.42.78] helo=llandre.freeserve.co.uk) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 131H9a-0005iy-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 00:28:31 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by llandre.freeserve.co.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA00210; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 00:36:09 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 00:36:09 +0100 Message-Id: <200006112336.AAA00210@llandre.freeserve.co.uk> From: To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: MPeg4 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Apparently MPEG4 can store around 1 hour of video on 300Meg of space. Anyone fancy making a Diamond RIO style LART player linking to VGA sunglasses? Note: this means 2 hours of video on a CD, and about 20 hours on a DVDROM.. What will hollywood make of napster based on MP4 huh? Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 03:19:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18956 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:19:17 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18952 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:19:16 +0200 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA04093 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:19:12 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cogeco-179-20.cgocable.net (HELO co484059a) (24.141.179.20) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2000 18:18:25 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Reply-To: From: "Randy Glenn" To: Subject: [OT] MPeg4 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:18:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Don't call it MP4: this implies that it is MPEG _Layer_ 4. MP3 is not MPEG 3, but rather MPEG1, Audio Layer 3. -Randy Glenn PICxpertANTISPAM@techie.com (remove ANTISPAM) http://i.am/PICxpert "My Finder has died of fits, chokin', My Finder has quite ceased to be. OS X's new Finder looks broken, Please bring back my Finder to me!" - A concerned Mac user -----Original Message----- From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of root@jeffdavies.my.net Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:36 PM To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: MPeg4 Apparently MPEG4 can store around 1 hour of video on 300Meg of space. Anyone fancy making a Diamond RIO style LART player linking to VGA sunglasses? Note: this means 2 hours of video on a CD, and about 20 hours on a DVDROM.. What will hollywood make of napster based on MP4 huh? Jeff Davies jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 08:11:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19542 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:11:00 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19538 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:10:55 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07313 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:10:52 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:09:13 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: Kira Brown Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:09:13 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: yassino , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Beowolf LART In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Kira Brown wrote: > Admittedly, the commodity PC boards are going to burn more power than the > StrongARM solution would, but that's not really an issue when you're > building a supercomputer, is it? Certainly never worried Seymour Cray... A lot of the supercomputer constructors also gave up on the idea of large number of simple processors due to programming and bandwidth issues. Hence most use a smaller number of very powerful processor. This is one of the reasons SMP machines (duals and the like) are fairly popular in clusters. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 16:35:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20620 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:35:36 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20616 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:35:35 +0200 Received: from viking.sophos.com (viking.sophos.com [193.82.145.128]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17652 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:35:33 +0200 (METDST) Received: from titanic.Notesnet (unknown [192.168.1.3]) by viking.sophos.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DEEFB45C1B for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:34:47 +0100 (BST) Received: by titanic.Notesnet(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 802568FC.005002B9 ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:33:55 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SOPHOS PLC From: "Simon Harrison" To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Message-ID: <802568FC.0050006A.00@titanic.Notesnet> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:33:48 +0100 Subject: www.4pcb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Sorry if you consider me a little off-topic, but I visited the site and signed up for the free CD with the virtual tour of the factory. I seem to have received a voucher for $100 off my first order. I don't know if this is standard practise for them or if I just got lucky, but since it's free it's gotta be worth a try right? -Simon. PS I don't represent the company in any way. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 17:22:22 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20739 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:22:22 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20735 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:22:21 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18751 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:22:19 +0200 (METDST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.150.199]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000612152139.CKFZ28251.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:21:39 -0700 Message-ID: <394500C9.9AAE4307@home.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:24:57 -0700 From: Wallace Owen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: www.4pcb.com References: <802568FC.0050006A.00@titanic.Notesnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk We've used them for two boards so far. They did a good job for us. Make sure you have 15mil clearance between vias and any inner layer traces or planes. Else they'll put your board on hold and wait for updated photoplots. // Wally Simon Harrison wrote: > > Sorry if you consider me a little off-topic, but I visited the site and signed > up for the free CD with the virtual tour of the factory. I seem to have > received a voucher for $100 off my first order. I don't know if this is > standard practise for them or if I just got lucky, but since it's free it's > gotta be worth a try right? > > -Simon. > > PS I don't represent the company in any way. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 21:28:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21249 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:28:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21245 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:28:07 +0200 Received: from localhost (cogeco-29-65.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25520 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:28:05 +0200 (METDST) Received: from cgocable.net (softdnserr [::ffff:192.168.0.2]) (IDENT: hbelange) by localhost with esmtp; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: <39449180.43936FB6@cgocable.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:30:08 -0400 From: Hugues Belanger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Subject: Wanted...LART + KSB + Etherboard X 3 References: <3946359D.9444E37D@linux.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi All, I'm looking for 3 LART main board to port my router distribution and couple of KSB and etherboard would be nice to ... Anybody out there wish to sell their LART ? Hugues Belanger -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Mon Jun 12 23:35:31 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21559 for lart-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:35:31 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21555 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:35:30 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-82.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.82]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29654 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:35:27 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (IDENT:root@192-168-42-249.cal.montage.ca [192.168.42.249]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01877 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:34:29 -0600 Message-ID: <39455765.F0419CD8@montage.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:34:29 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0-test1 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Anyone have a blob binary for the SA1110 Intel Eval board? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F18C3AD579B2155BC6162CBF" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F18C3AD579B2155BC6162CBF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi; After 4 days of dedicated effort, I cannot seem to compile a blob image that will work on my Intel SA1110 eval board. Does anyone have a working blob image that I could try? Cheers Chris --------------F18C3AD579B2155BC6162CBF Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------F18C3AD579B2155BC6162CBF-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 01:04:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22010 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:04:29 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22000; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:03:44 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <394500C9.9AAE4307@home.com> References: <802568FC.0050006A.00@titanic.Notesnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:56:27 +0200 To: Wallace Owen From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: www.4pcb.com Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 17:24 +0200 12-06-2000, Wallace Owen wrote: >We've used them for two boards so far. They did a good job for us. >Make sure you have 15mil clearance between vias and any inner layer >traces or planes. 15 mil, as in 0.015in ?? That's 0.38mm, a *very* large clearance. Are you sure it's not 0.15mm or 6mil ? That's the design rule used for LART. JDB [who assumes you mean the clearance between via pads and the rest of the world] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 02:54:00 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA22212 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:54:00 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22208 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:53:59 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id CAA12993; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:53:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id CAA22888; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:53:58 +0200 Message-Id: <200006130053.CAA22888@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Anyone have a blob binary for the SA1110 Intel Eval board? In-Reply-To: <39455765.F0419CD8@montage.ca> from Chris Price at "Jun 12, 0 03:34:29 pm" To: chris.price@montage.ca (Chris Price) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:53:58 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Chris Price wrote: > After 4 days of dedicated effort, I cannot seem to compile a blob image > that will work on my Intel SA1110 eval board. Does anyone have a working > blob image that I could try? I can't supply you with a working image, but maybe with some advice (in random order): Use Chester's Assabet patch I posted to this list a couple of days ago. It works on his board and also on Jeff Sullivan's board, but from what I've seen on other mailing lists there are several versions of the Assabet. Maybe your versions just doesn't work (Jeff?). If you have problems with your cross-compiler use my version available on the LART site. It also includes kernel headers, so you should be able to compile blob with: set path = ( /data/lart/cross/bin $path ) setenv CC arm-linux-gcc ./configure --with-linux-prefix=/data/lart/cross/arm-linux arm-lart-linux-gnu make The size of the resulting image (blob) should be around 14k. I currently can't help you with more info because I'm officially on vacation, though I read my email at irregular intervals (we all know how LART team members spend their holidays ;-). Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 03:37:38 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22305 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:37:38 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22301 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:37:38 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-82.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.82]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05469 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:37:36 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (24.64.224.111.ab.wave.home.com [24.64.224.111]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12970; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:36:18 -0600 Message-ID: <39459361.F190DA7D@montage.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:50:25 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: Anyone have a blob binary for the SA1110 Intel Eval board? References: <200006130053.CAA22888@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9AE3508A0730265934886A4B" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9AE3508A0730265934886A4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik Mouw wrote: > > Chris Price wrote: > I can't supply you with a working image, but maybe with some > advice (in random order): Ok, thanks Erik.. > > Use Chester's Assabet patch I posted to this list a couple of days ago. > It works on his board and also on Jeff Sullivan's board, but from what > I've seen on other mailing lists there are several versions of the > Assabet. Maybe your versions just doesn't work (Jeff?). What exactly is assabet? I assume that it is a name directed towards a reference board implementation? I am using the patch you posted. > If you have problems with your cross-compiler use my version available > on the LART site. It also includes kernel headers, so you should be > able to compile blob with: I am using a SA110 Corel Netwinder 3.1-15 system to compile blob with. Any known issues with this? Compiler + C Packages are: gcc-2.95.1-1nw5, glibc-2.1.2-4nw1 Kernel: linux-2.4.0-test1.tar.gz Kernel Patches: diff-2.4.0-test1-ac7-rmk1-np5, patch-2.4.0-test1-ac7-rmk1 Blob Version: 1.0.7b + Patch that erik posted a few days ago. Also, I am using jflash9x.exe under winblows to flash blob, any know issues with this? I simply cannot get Nico's jflash to work under Linux. > > The size of the resulting image (blob) should be around 14k. Yeah, my size is about that.. (13.8 or so) > > I currently can't help you with more info because I'm officially on > vacation, though I read my email at irregular intervals (we all know > how LART team members spend their holidays ;-). Sounds like my holidays.. Wait a sec, I haven't taken any in 4 years ;(.. I have about 3 months holidays coming to me one of these days, maybe a trip to the Netherlands is in order? :) Cheers Chris --------------9AE3508A0730265934886A4B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------9AE3508A0730265934886A4B-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 03:38:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22320 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:38:08 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22316 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:38:07 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id DAA13183; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:38:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id DAA22917; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:38:06 +0200 Message-Id: <200006130138.DAA22917@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: [OT] MPeg4 In-Reply-To: from Randy Glenn at "Jun 11, 0 09:18:24 pm" To: picxpert@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Randy Glenn wrote: > Don't call it MP4: this implies that it is MPEG _Layer_ 4. MP3 is not MPEG > 3, but rather MPEG1, Audio Layer 3. Ah, the MPEG confusion kicks in again! Let me recite it: MPEG1: Aimed to replace VHS video. Compliant players should at least play 352x288 (QCIF format) sequences at 1.2 Mbit/s. Note that there are actual three MPEG1 standards: video, audio, and systems. The most popular MPEG1 audio is MPEG1 layer 3, known as MP3. MPEG2: An enhancement of the MPEG1 standard. Resolutions and bitrates virtually unlimited, though there are four profiles and another four levels which each describe a resolution and bandwidth (not all of the 16 combinations are useful, though). The nice thing about MPEG2 is that it supports interlaced video (very useful for broadcasting) and aspect ratios other than 4:3. Again, there are three standards: audio, video and systems. The systems standard is actually a handy way to multiplex the video and audio streams into one stream useful for broadcasting; the European DVB (Digital Video Broadcast) satellite broadcasts use MPEG2 at 720x57 at 4 or 8 Mbit/s. MPEG3: Aimed for high definition television (HDTV). This standard was skipped because the HDTV stuff could be merged into MPEG2. MPEG4: Object based coding. Objects can be encoded separately and can consist of audio as well as video. This is the last coding standard in the MPEG standard series. The draft standard also contained a part to encode facial expressions, though I'm not sure it went into the final standard. Although MPEG4 can be used to reduce bandwidth (or storage space), IMHO the standard has been overtaken by Moore's law: bandwidth is becoming cheaper and cheaper these days, so we don't actually need it. Note that the standard has just been approved, so it will take some time before the first MPEG4 compliant _encoders_ become available (the decoders are available because they are much easier to build), and in the mean time the bandwidth still grows. DVD already stores a complete MPEG2 encoded movie on a single disk, so the use of MPEG4 is not necessary storage. MPEG7: A standard to describe the contents of a video sequence. Imagine yourself with a video archive containing millions of hours of video. Now imagine that someone asks you to look for that sequence in which Boris Jeltsin and Bill Clinton shake hands and, oh, there was a red car in the background. You can see that this is a very difficult question, not only for a human but also for a computer. You need some way to describe the contents of the sequence, but this is still a large research area (there are a couple of people in my group working on it). MPEG11: I can't remember what this standard is all about. It's also possible that it is called MPEG12. MPEG 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 are just skipped for fun. Erik [who actually works in a video coding research group and worked on a MPEG4 related project for about 3 years] > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On > Behalf Of root@jeffdavies.my.net > Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:36 PM > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl > Subject: MPeg4 > > > Apparently MPEG4 can store around 1 hour of video on 300Meg of space. > Anyone fancy making a Diamond RIO style LART player linking to VGA > sunglasses? > -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 05:11:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA22511 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:11:36 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA22507 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:11:34 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id FAA13437; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:11:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id FAA23038; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:11:33 +0200 Message-Id: <200006130311.FAA23038@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Anyone have a blob binary for the SA1110 Intel Eval board? In-Reply-To: <39459361.F190DA7D@montage.ca> from Chris Price at "Jun 12, 0 07:50:25 pm" To: chris.price@montage.ca (Chris Price) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Chris Price wrote: > Erik Mouw wrote: > > Use Chester's Assabet patch I posted to this list a couple of days ago. > > It works on his board and also on Jeff Sullivan's board, but from what > > I've seen on other mailing lists there are several versions of the > > Assabet. Maybe your versions just doesn't work (Jeff?). > > What exactly is assabet? I assume that it is a name directed towards a > reference board implementation? The Assabet is a reference board implementation by Intel. It contains an SA-1110 CPU plus all the goodies to make it a so-called multi-media board. There are a couple of versions out there with slightly different components which make them somewhat incompatible. The most problems seem to be in the LCD, though. > I am using a SA110 Corel Netwinder 3.1-15 system to compile blob with. > Any known issues with this? > > Compiler + C Packages are: > gcc-2.95.1-1nw5, glibc-2.1.2-4nw1 Should be OK. I actually wrote the first versions of blob on a Netwinder with a 2.12 disk image. > Kernel: > linux-2.4.0-test1.tar.gz > Kernel Patches: > diff-2.4.0-test1-ac7-rmk1-np5, patch-2.4.0-test1-ac7-rmk1 Should be OK. The linux kernel headers are only used for the hardware addresses in include/asm-arm/arc-sa1100/SA1100.h . > Blob Version: 1.0.7b + Patch that erik posted a few days ago. That should do the trick. > Also, I am using jflash9x.exe under winblows to flash blob, any know > issues with this? I simply cannot get Nico's jflash to work under Linux. AFAIK Nico was able to flash a linux kernel with it on an Assabet, so I assume that it works. I don't know what kind of hardware you use. If you're using an Assabet, blob should work immediately. If you're using another SA-1110 board, chances are big that you have to change the memory setup in start.S. Have a look at the SA-1110 manual for details. > > I currently can't help you with more info because I'm officially on > > vacation, though I read my email at irregular intervals (we all know > > how LART team members spend their holidays ;-). > > Sounds like my holidays.. Wait a sec, I haven't taken any in 4 years > ;(.. I have the same problem: 35 days of holidays a year (yes, universities in The Netherlands have an awful number of free days) but at the end of the year there about 20 left unused. > I have about 3 months holidays coming to me one of these days, maybe a > trip to the Netherlands is in order? :) Oh sure. But if you want to visit the LART lab, please contact us in advance, we're not always available due to deadlines and other serious work. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 05:41:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA22574 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:41:36 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA22570 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:41:36 +0200 Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07645 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:41:33 +0200 (METDST) Received: from home.com ([24.0.150.199]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000613034053.WNUD28251.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:40:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3945AE10.77BE9CF1@home.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:44:16 -0700 From: Wallace Owen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: www.4pcb.com References: <802568FC.0050006A.00@titanic.Notesnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Yeah, I know. I was a bit peeved that it cost me a day. That's why I thought it worthwhile to tell others of this unusual constraint. // Wally Email from onhold@4pcb.com: Subject: hold notice This is to inform you that your order for partnumber trfmod1 on ACI reference number XXXXXX is currently on hold for the following: Inner layer clearance violations. We need 15 mils from edge of hole to next copper area. Please remember that as a result of this delay your scheduled ship date has been pushed back one business day. Your scheduled ship date will continue to be pushed back day for day until the necessary information is received to restart your order. Thank You Bridgit Williams Advanced Circuits CAM Department "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > At 17:24 +0200 12-06-2000, Wallace Owen wrote: > >We've used them for two boards so far. They did a good job for us. > >Make sure you have 15mil clearance between vias and any inner layer > >traces or planes. > > 15 mil, as in 0.015in ?? That's 0.38mm, a *very* large clearance. Are you > sure it's not 0.15mm or 6mil ? That's the design rule used for LART. > > JDB > [who assumes you mean the clearance between via pads and the rest of the world] > > -- > Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl > > The lazy man's proverb: > 'There's no business like slow business !' > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 11:45:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23240 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:49 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23236 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:47 +0200 Received: from mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.107]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18532 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:43 +0200 (METDST) Received: from soo3olyhtnkad71 (wdcax9-022.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.70.22]) by mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14367 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:45:24 +1000 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:44:54 +1000 X-Priority: 3 From: Matt Donohoe X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Memory on LART Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.55 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Is any other type of memory usable on LART ? 64mbit is the biggest in EDO DRAM... What about the possibility of SDRAM or something like that that goes up to 128mbit/256mbit ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matt TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 12:50:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23450 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:50:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23446 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:50:06 +0200 Received: from avalon.whirlygig.co.uk (avalon.whirlygig.co.uk [195.152.5.19]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21636 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:50:05 +0200 (METDST) Received: from ankh-morpork.sj.co.uk ([195.152.5.194] helo=steves-house.org.uk) by avalon.whirlygig.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 131oFz-000Nzj-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:49:19 +0100 Message-ID: <394611CB.8CB89209@steves-house.org.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:49:47 +0100 From: Steve Wiseman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" Subject: Re: Memory on LART References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Matt Donohoe wrote: > > Is any other type of memory usable on LART ? > > 64mbit is the biggest in EDO DRAM... There's (probably) no real problem with piggybacking another bank or two of DRAM on top of the existing chips, and bringing out their nRAS signals to the SA1100 with patch wire, if you're after a quick fix. (I've not checked to see if these lines are free, mind). > What about the possibility of SDRAM or something like that that goes up to > 128mbit/256mbit ? SA1100 only groks EDO... SA1110 groks SDRAM. I suspect there's more in the archive... Steve -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 13:00:53 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23523 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:00:53 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23517; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:00:49 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <394611CB.8CB89209@steves-house.org.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:58:16 +0200 To: Steve Wiseman From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Memory on LART Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk >Matt Donohoe wrote: >> >> Is any other type of memory usable on LART ? >> >> 64mbit is the biggest in EDO DRAM... > >There's (probably) no real problem with piggybacking another bank or two >of DRAM on top of the existing chips, and bringing out their nRAS >signals to the SA1100 with patch wire, if you're after a quick fix. >(I've not checked to see if these lines are free, mind). It's possible but it's very hackish. Those RAS lines have edge rates that I wouldn't trust to patch wire. As I said before we have 64M expansion boards which can be used single or in pairs. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 19:44:39 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24435 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:44:39 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24431 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:44:38 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-82.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.82]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11601 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:44:36 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (192-168-42-249.cal.montage.ca [192.168.42.249]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19598 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:44:04 -0600 Message-ID: <394672E2.E4F6C011@montage.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:44:02 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Flash Memory as read-only filesystem? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F1D11D746A8CC792AF32D723" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F1D11D746A8CC792AF32D723 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi; This question may seem obscenely ignorant to some of you, please forgive me if it does: Can 'flash' memory be mounted as a read-only filesystem? EG: I have a SA11xx board with 32mb flash and 32mb ram. Can I burn a '/' filesystem into flash and simply provide a ramdisk for /tmp and (possibly) /var? My reading into flash memeory technologies has not clearly spelled this out for me. My current feeling is that flash can be used only for storing things like gzipped ramdisks and the like, not for a live (albeit read-only) filesystem. Dazed and Confused about flash technology.. Chris --------------F1D11D746A8CC792AF32D723 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------F1D11D746A8CC792AF32D723-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 20:13:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24497 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:13:43 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24493 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:13:43 +0200 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12406 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:13:41 +0200 (METDST) Received: from modem-154.blue-spotted-stingray.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.238.154] helo=sargon.chrystal.gbr.xerox.com) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 131v8s-0006E2-00 for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:10:31 +0100 From: Jeff Davies/CDPTEST Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:03:10 +0100 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: [OT] MPeg4 Message-ID: <69D08A68896C2F27802568FD0062D873.0000000000000000@chrystal.gbr.xerox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk There was a recent news story here in the UK that the BBC had announced a working MPeg4 system. (I guess the faster hardware around, the more compression can be done). In the UK we live in fear of the stupidity enforced on our country by British Telecom, who, fearful of loosing revenue from ISDN (never achieved penetration due to silly costs) and leased lines are holding back on ADSL to the entire industry's anger. Jeff Daviess -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Tue Jun 13 20:49:14 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24571 for lart-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:49:14 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24567 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:49:10 +0200 Received: from nomad.mipps.net (mail.mipps.net [205.189.197.83]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13794 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:49:02 +0200 (METDST) Received: from (sgsw) [205.189.197.6] by nomad.mipps.net with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 131vhr-0002nf-00; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:46:35 -0400 Message-ID: <013a01bfd568$04f148e0$3105030a@surgard.com> Reply-To: "Todd Johnstone" From: "Todd Johnstone" To: "Jeff Davies/CDPTEST" , References: <69D08A68896C2F27802568FD0062D873.0000000000000000@chrystal.gbr.xerox.com> Subject: Re: MPeg4 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:48:48 -0400 Organization: SG Security Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is off-topic to this list, but should put to rest some of the questions: For a decent description and to see an example of an MPEG4 video (you need a relatively fast Windows system for this) see the recent Trevor Marshall article on BYTE.COM at http://www.byte.com/column/BYT20000523S0002 Todd Johnstone -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 02:09:01 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25496 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:09:01 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25488; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:08:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <394672E2.E4F6C011@montage.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:00:58 +0200 To: Chris Price From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Flash Memory as read-only filesystem? Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 19:44 +0200 13-06-2000, Chris Price wrote: > Hi; > > This question may seem obscenely ignorant to some of you, please >forgive me if it does: > > Can 'flash' memory be mounted as a read-only filesystem? Yes. See http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/ for details. I would personally use either romfs or cramfs on Flash; see Documentation/filesystems in a recent kernel tree. HTH, JDB. -- I may be obsessive-compulsive, but it's NOT a disorder ! -- Paul S. Sawyer in the Monastery -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 07:47:36 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26090 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:47:36 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26086 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:47:34 +0200 From: chester@linux.org.tw Received: from linux.org.tw (IDENT:root@tlug.sinica.edu.tw [140.109.13.42]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29628 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:47:25 +0200 (METDST) Received: from localhost (chester@localhost) by linux.org.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02124; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:49:40 +0800 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:49:40 +0800 (CST) To: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: blob for assabet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi..! I have receive a lot of mail about blob on assabet,and i think it's ready for use. This is work is only for Assabet,not for other sa1100 eval board,if you using Toshiba SDRM on Intel board.Just try it. PS,the offical release of blob on assabet will as soon as possible,i think! (Erik ???) go ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/c/chester/blob-sa1110-assabet.tgz Good luck. Chester -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 09:40:52 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26274 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:40:52 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26270 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:40:52 +0200 Received: from mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.105]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03264 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:40:43 +0200 (METDST) Received: from soo3olyhtnkad71 (wdcax8-137.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.67.137]) by mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01286 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:35:27 +1000 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:35:01 +1000 X-Priority: 3 From: Matt Donohoe X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: PCB Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.55 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Boys and Girls, IF one had enough PCB materials, is it POSSIBLE to space the LART out a bit so that it could be built by hand and modified if need be? ie, use sockets(if available). It's just that some circuits wont allow sockets and stuff. On the subject of spacing stuff out, other than the IC's, is there any chance of being able to use normal-type components instead of SMD ? I couldnt really see why not in most cases. Yes, say what you want, I like the old big stuff that you can actually handle. If I was interested in small as PCB's that I could never modify I would have bought the LART from a manufacturer(theoretically). I'm not quite sure why this wouldnt be possible but somebody may be able to tell me! I remember there being a small discussion about a FLASH type memory being used as a 'hard drive' and there being some chip that could manage up to 32 individual flash chips... Does anybody still have those messages? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matt TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 11:43:24 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26736 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:43:24 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26730; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:43:12 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:38:02 +0200 To: Matt Donohoe From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: PCB Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk [please fix the line length of your mailer] At 09:35 +0200 14-06-2000, Matt Donohoe wrote: >Boys and Girls, > >IF one had enough PCB materials, is it POSSIBLE to space the LART out a >bit so >that it could be built by hand and modified if need be? ie, use sockets(if >available). >It's just that some circuits wont allow sockets and stuff. Some components could be socketed; the problem is that those sockets tend to be SMD as well nowadays. Oh and expect a socket for (eg) the processor to be more expensive than the part itself. >On the subject of spacing stuff out, other than the IC's, is there any >chance of being >able to use normal-type components instead of SMD ? I couldnt really see >why not in >most cases. Inductance and capacitance. The LART has quite fast digital signals; using sockets and thru-holes everywhere will probably add enough stray inductance and capacitance to kill (reliable) circuit operations. > Yes, say what you want, I like the old big stuff that you can actually >handle. If I was interested in small as PCB's that I could never modify I >would have >bought the LART from a manufacturer(theoretically). What is it you want to modify ? There's a lot you can expand through, say, the low speed connector. >I remember there being a small discussion about a FLASH type memory being >used >as a 'hard drive' and there being some chip that could manage up to 32 >individual >flash chips... Does anybody still have those messages? The list archive is bound to have them. See http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/ JDB. -- They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in ASR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 11:56:35 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26790 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:56:35 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26785; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:56:34 +0200 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09604; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:56:28 +0200 (METDST) Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:55:02 +1000 From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" To: "J.D. Bakker" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:55:02 +1000 (EST) X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU cc: Matt Donohoe , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Re: PCB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > >On the subject of spacing stuff out, other than the IC's, is there any > >chance of being > >able to use normal-type components instead of SMD ? I couldnt really see > >why not in > >most cases. > > Inductance and capacitance. The LART has quite fast digital signals; using > sockets and thru-holes everywhere will probably add enough stray inductance > and capacitance to kill (reliable) circuit operations. I'm wondering about the Assabet in this context, it uses in pad via's for all the components and the outer layers (top,bottom) are ground plans. 6 layer all up. Cheers Adam -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 17:15:08 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27602 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:15:08 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27598 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:15:07 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26554 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:15:03 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N923P002.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.66]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA186428 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:13:45 +0200 Message-ID: <3947A16D.AD23737D@aon.at> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:14:53 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart Subject: Other Flash sources ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Hi everbody.. Does anbody know another type (manufacturer) of FLASH which works eith theLART ? There is a delivery time of 15 weeks for a 28F160F3, and i don't want to wait until christmas to finish my LART... greetings, olaf ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 18:55:13 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27844 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:55:13 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27840 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:55:12 +0200 Received: from vorcha.cal.montage.ca (h-207-228-100-82.gen.cadvision.com [207.228.100.82]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00835 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:55:10 +0200 (METDST) Received: from montage.ca (IDENT:root@192-168-42-249.cal.montage.ca [192.168.42.249]) by vorcha.cal.montage.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12539 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:54:35 -0600 Message-ID: <3947B8C8.EFF2AE@montage.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:54:32 -0600 From: Chris Price Organization: Montage IT Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0-test1 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Blob on Assabet - Success Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ED0F813D13654EE6CD884299" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ED0F813D13654EE6CD884299 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everyone who provided assistance to me in getting blob to run on my assabet! especially Jeff, Erik, JD and Chester. Chester has a version based on 1.0.5 that worked out of the box. If you guys want me to continue testing blob on assabet, please let me know... Now if I can just get this darn thing booting a kernel! Cheers Chris --------------ED0F813D13654EE6CD884299 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="chris.price.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Chris Price Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chris.price.vcf" begin:vcard n:Price;Chris x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.montage.ca org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA version:2.1 email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca title:Systems Specialist fn:Chris Price end:vcard --------------ED0F813D13654EE6CD884299-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 19:16:04 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27924 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:16:04 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27920 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:16:03 +0200 Received: from ice.ar51.net (ice.fiftyone.com [208.225.80.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01383 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:15:59 +0200 (METDST) Received: from server01.asi (akron-80-181.ar51.net [208.225.80.181]) by ice.ar51.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27865; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:15:55 -0400 Received: by SERVER01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:16:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Sutherland To: "'Chris Price'" , "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" Subject: RE: Blob on Assabet - Success Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:16:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > Thanks to everyone who provided assistance to me in > getting blob to run > on my assabet! especially Jeff, Erik, JD and Chester. > > Chester has a version based on 1.0.5 that worked out of > the box. If you > guys want me to continue testing blob on assabet, please let > me know... > > Now if I can just get this darn thing booting a kernel! > > Cheers > > Chris Remember to set the architecture number for Assabet to 25 when calling the kernel, or else hard code it in head-sa1100.S. I suggest you try just loading the kernel to see if it works, forget about the ramdisk. If you get to the point where it says "kernel panic, can't find root filesystem..." or something like that, THEN it's time to start loading the ramdisk, as the kernel is pretty much fully operational by that point. Also beware of loading addresses: Kernel code expects to start execution at 0xC0008000, and to find the compressed ramdisk image at 0xC0800000. Also, everything has to be uuencoded before BLOB will take it. //Jeff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 21:02:44 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28188 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:02:44 +0200 Received: from [130.161.115.44] (jdbakker.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.115.44]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28183; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:02:41 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3947A16D.AD23737D@aon.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:56:41 +0200 To: Olaf Ernst From: "J.D. Bakker" Subject: Re: Other Flash sources ? Cc: lart Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk At 17:14 +0200 14-06-2000, Olaf Ernst wrote: >Hi everbody.. > > >Does anbody know another type (manufacturer) of FLASH which >works eith theLART ? Short answer: no. Long answer: *what* other Flash ? There's a Flash drought ATM; I just checked with large distris (Arrow, Avnet, Pioneer) and none of them had *any* Flash in stock, Fast Boot Block or otherwise. Blame it on the mobile phone boom. JDB. -- Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 21:03:41 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28194 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:03:41 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28190 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:03:40 +0200 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04733 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:03:38 +0200 (METDST) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs01-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.201]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.30 2000/06/08 18:25:35 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id TAA21006; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:02:56 GMT Received: from fmsmsx17.intel.com ([132.233.48.17]) by 132.233.48.201 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:02:03 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx17.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:02:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Seger, Justin M" To: "'Chris Price'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: RE: Blob on Assabet - Success Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:01:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > Thanks to everyone who provided assistance to me in > getting blob to run > on my assabet! especially Jeff, Erik, JD and Chester. > > Chester has a version based on 1.0.5 that worked out of > the box. If you > guys want me to continue testing blob on assabet, please let > me know... > > Now if I can just get this darn thing booting a kernel! The problem here appears to be that the kernel is expecting Angel to be present. I can succesfully boot a kernel with Chester's version of blob with this patch applied to linux/arch/arm/compressed/head-sa1100.S ------------------------------------------------------------ --- head-sa1100.S~ Tue Jun 13 06:14:31 2000 +++ head-sa1100.S Wed Jun 14 09:47:48 2000 @@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ @ Preserve r0/r1 i.e. kernel entry values mov r8, r0 mov r9, r1 - +#if 0 #if defined( CONFIG_SA1100_ASSABET ) || \ defined( CONFIG_SA1100_BRUTUS ) || \ defined( CONFIG_SA1100_THINCLIENT ) @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ mrs r0, cpsr orr r0, r0, #0xc0 msr cpsr_c, r0 +#endif #endif #ifdef CONFIG_SA1100_VICTOR ---------------------------------------------------------- Good luck, Justin -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 21:39:49 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28329 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:49 +0200 Received: from duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (duteinh.et.tudelft.nl [130.161.42.1]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28325 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:49 +0200 Received: from kalman.et.tudelft.nl by duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/BB-2.0) id VAA29771; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from erik@localhost) by kalman.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA26516; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:47 +0200 Message-Id: <200006141939.VAA26516@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: blob for assabet In-Reply-To: from "chester@linux.org.tw" at "Jun 14, 0 01:49:40 pm" To: chester@linux.org.tw Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw) Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk Chester wrote: > I have receive a lot of mail about blob on assabet,and i think it's > ready for use. > This is work is only for Assabet,not for other sa1100 eval board,if you > using Toshiba SDRM on Intel board.Just try it. > PS,the offical release of blob on assabet will as soon as possible,i > think! (Erik ???) I'm working on blob-1.0.8, which will have support for Assabet, Brutus, LART, and PLEB. I'm currently at 80%: the C parts have been done, and I am working on the assembly merge. As I am officialy on vacations, I can only check if the stuff compiles correctly, not if it actually runs. I'll contact you as soon as I am back and give you my preliminary patch to test it. > go > > ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/c/chester/blob-sa1110-assabet.tgz I have currently no way of downloading that onto my own laptop, so I hope that the differences with your patch against blob-1.0.7b aren't too big. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Wed Jun 14 21:40:17 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28339 for lart-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:40:17 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28331 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:40:16 +0200 Received: from email.aon.at (grazproxy2.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.219]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06077 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:40:14 +0200 (METDST) Received: from aon.at (N923P002.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.125.66]) by email.aon.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA105846 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:38:56 +0200 Message-ID: <3947DF94.9DE4B2AC@aon.at> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:40:04 +0200 From: Olaf Ernst Organization: Me ? Organized ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: lart Subject: Re: Other Flash sources ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk "J.D. Bakker" wrote: > > Long answer: *what* other Flash ? Well, anything in a SSOP-56 case... > There's a Flash drought ATM... Yes, and the "not very common" SSOP-56 case dosen't make it easier. It would strongly suggest to use TSOP's on the next PCB revision, because it seems to be the std for this type of IC. (INTEL,ATMEL & AMD) > Blame it on the mobile phone boom. Hmmm.... where's my spare nokia ? ------------------------------------------------------------ Real programmers never die... they cast to void. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3 From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl Thu Jun 15 01:07:03 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA29081 for lart-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:07:03 +0200 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (root@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl [130.161.34.250]) by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA29077 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:07:01 +0200 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13728 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:06:59 +0200 (METDST) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA07914 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:05:58 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from msgphx6.sps.mot.com (msgphx6.sps.mot.com [216.3.20.15]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18390 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:05:57 -0700 (MST)] Received: from email.sps.mot.com ([163.10.93.102]) by msgphx6.sps.mot.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA482B for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:05:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39480FCF.E5EC592B@email.sps.mot.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:05:51 -0500 From: "Jin Chen (ra7594)" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl Subject: Lart main board wanted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C26FF067950BB914F0BE7708" X-Motorola-Sent-Wireless: 1 Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl Precedence: bulk --------------C26FF067950BB914F0BE7708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are trying to port a GPS & ITS program on a embeded linux platform. Does anyone have a couple of Lart main board for sale? A built and tested Lart system is even better. Thanks. Jim C. --------------C26FF067950BB914F0BE7708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
We are trying to port a GPS & ITS program on a embeded linux
platform. Does anyone have a couple of Lart main board for sale? A
built and tested Lart system is even better.
Thanks.
Jim C.

 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 01:42:50 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:42:03 -0600
From: Chris Price 
Organization: Montage IT Services
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Almost there -> blob download of kernel problem
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--------------58B58D66C90D2E1FA169E578
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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	OK, I have made some major progress today, but am stuck.

	Earlier today when I got Chester's blob-1.0.5 to work on my assabet, I
was able to download a kernel image to my assabet and attempt to run it.
I then went through the effort to compile a 2.4.0-test1 kernel (with
Nico and Russell's patches).

	Now when I try to do a kernel download, my serial connetion to my
assabet gets screwed:

Accelent Systems BLOB boot loader for Linux,
v0.0.                        
Running from internal
Flash.                                              
Starting the memory
tester...                                             
Zeroing
memory...0xD0000000                                               
Zeroing done.Testing aliInitalization
ok                                  
                                                                          
Loading kernel from flash ....
done                                       
Loading ramdisk from flash ............
done                              
                                                                          
blob version 1.0.5, Copyright (C) 1999 2000Jan-Derk Bakker and Erik
Mouw. 
blob comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; read the GNU GPL for
details.     
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute
it             
under certain conditions; read the GNU GPL for
details.                   
                                                                          
Autoboot in progress, press any key to stop
.                             
Autoboot
aborted                                                          
Type "help" to get a list of
commands                                     
blob>
status                                                              
Bootloader    :
blob                                                      
Version       :
1.0.5                                                     
Running from  : internal
flash                                            
Blocksize     : 0x01000000
Download speed: 115200 baud
Kernel        : from flash
Ramdisk       : from flash
blob> download kernel
Switching to 115200 baud
You have 60 seconds to switch your terminal emulator to the same speed
and
start downloading. After that blob will switch back to 9600 baud.
.


	As you can see, teh final line in my cut and paste only contains one
dot (a '.'). Earlier today, I would get approximately a line and a half
of dots -> I assume indicating download progress.

	In a seperate window, I am using 'uuencode zImage zImage > /dev/ttyS0'
to do the downloading. 

	It seems as if the download process starts, but then hangs for some
reason. Also, the LED on my assabet that indicates memory activity (D9)
lights up orange and stays lit.


	Anyone have any ideas why my 'download kernel' capability would have
suddenly stopped working? 

	Thanks

	Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 03:19:02 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:18:44 +1000 (EST)
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 17:14 +0200 14-06-2000, Olaf Ernst wrote:
> >Hi everbody..
> >
> >
> >Does anbody know another type (manufacturer) of FLASH which
> >works eith theLART ?
> 
> Short answer: no.
> 
> Long answer: *what* other Flash ? There's a Flash drought ATM; I just
> checked with large distris (Arrow, Avnet, Pioneer) and none of them had
> *any* Flash in stock, Fast Boot Block or otherwise.

	We had problems getting our flash for PLEB, in the end they gave
us a lower speed part as well :(
> 
> Blame it on the mobile phone boom.
> 
	Yeah, I can't beleive how hard it is to get SMD tantulim
capacitors! even Farnell was a 6week wait...

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 04:06:20 2000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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This may seem like a stupid question but why is there a shortage of Flash Memory and 
Low-ESR Tantalum capacitors to do with Mobile phones?

(All my phones that I have had could never be flashed I dont think without paying the 
licensed dealer a certain amount $45 or so to have a look at it.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:14:53 +1000 (EST)
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On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Matt Donohoe wrote:

> This may seem like a stupid question but why is there a shortage of Flash Memory and 
> Low-ESR Tantalum capacitors to do with Mobile phones?
> 
> (All my phones that I have had could never be flashed I dont think without paying the 
> licensed dealer a certain amount $45 or so to have a look at it.)
> 
	Because Mobil phones use FLASH and Tantalum Caps and there has
been a boom in the industry with very high demand for mobiles so a lot are
being made and they are sucking up large orders of these devices so when
you come along and ask for a small sub-thousand unit order you get put at
the very end of the supply queue. Intel have a flash sample ordering
vouchure with each purchase of flash based products (got one with my
Assabet) however I'm yet to see the 12 strata 128MBit chips that I ordered
:(

	Cheers Adam

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From: Adam Haberlach 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Flash short to do with mobiles
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On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 12:04:44PM +1000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
> This may seem like a stupid question but why is there a shortage of Flash Memory and 
> Low-ESR Tantalum capacitors to do with Mobile phones?
> 
> (All my phones that I have had could never be flashed I dont think without paying the 
> licensed dealer a certain amount $45 or so to have a look at it.)

	I would blame the Flash shortage on digital cameras, portable .mp3
players, and "embedded internet appliances" before I would blame it on
phones.  My phone has less then 1k of flash, judging by the number of
entries I can put in the phone list.  My Camera came with a 16Mb package.

-- 
Adam Haberlach             |"You have to understand that the
adam@newsnipple.com        |  entire 'Net is based on people with
http://www.newsnipple.com/ |  too much free time on their hands."
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 07:32:06 2000
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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:45:39 -0600
From: Chris Price 
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	Hi;

	In my quest to try and get a kernel downloaded to blob, I keep getting
'uudecode timeout' and other kinds of uudecode error messages .

Switching to 115200 baud
You have 60 seconds to switch your terminal emulator to the same speed
and start downloading. After that blob will switch back to 9600 baud.

*** Timeout exceeded. Aborting.

(Please switch your terminal emulator back to 9600 baud)
*** Uudecode receive failed
Loading kernel from flash .... done


	I am using minicom under Linux. My board is attached to /dev/ttyS0. I
have attempted to use both the minicom upload ascii file feature and
uploading from a seperate console using 'uudecode zImage zImage >
/dev/ttyS0' both have the same results.

	Any suggestions?

	Cheers

	Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 08:02:21 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:05:30 +0200
From: Michael Renzmann 
Organization: CompuLAN Europe GmbH
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Hi Olaf.

> Does anbody know another type (manufacturer) of FLASH which
> works eith theLART ?
> There is a delivery time of 15 weeks for a 28F160F3,
> and i don't want to wait until christmas to finish my LART...

Which flashes do work with the LART? I know a german distributor for
flashes and such things, we get 29F040B there. Maybe this would be of
interest for you?

> greetings,
>                 olaf

Bye, Mike
------------------------------------
  Development - Wireless Solutions
  CompuLAN Europe GmbH, Germany
  Tel: ++49-6003-815299
  Fax: ++49-6003-815222
------------------------------------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 09:43:15 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:45:22 +0800 (CST)
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: chester@linux.org.tw, sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: blob for assabet
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> > ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/c/chester/blob-sa1110-assabet.tgz
> 
> I have currently no way of downloading that onto my own laptop, so
> I hope that the differences with your patch against blob-1.0.7b aren't
> too big.
> 
> 
> Erik
This version is based on 1.0.5,start.s and serial.c have been modified 
for assabet board.(I think :p)
	
						Chester

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 10:07:43 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:09:53 +0800 (CST)
To: Chris Price 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Problems with uudecode/uucodec.c?
In-Reply-To: <39486D83.5B5BF7E1@montage.ca>
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This is i mean maybe a bug in this version :p
I have tested it many times for download kernel or ramdisk,sometimes it's
success,others it's failure.
I alos test it on 9600 baud for download kernel,it's better than 115200
baud,but takes a lot of time.Maybe we should check this uucodec.c again.


						Chester

> You have 60 seconds to switch your terminal emulator to the same speed
> and start downloading. After that blob will switch back to 9600 baud.
> 
> *** Timeout exceeded. Aborting.
> 
> (Please switch your terminal emulator back to 9600 baud)
> *** Uudecode receive failed
> Loading kernel from flash .... done
> 
> 
> 	I am using minicom under Linux. My board is attached to /dev/ttyS0. I
> have attempted to use both the minicom upload ascii file feature and
> uploading from a seperate console using 'uudecode zImage zImage >
> /dev/ttyS0' both have the same results.
> 
> 	Any suggestions?
> 
> 	Cheers
> 
> 	Chris

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 12:27:10 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 20:25:44 +1000 (EST)
From: Ian Tester 
To: LART Mailing list 
Subject: Re: Flash short to do with mobiles
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Adam Haberlach wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 12:04:44PM +1000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
> > This may seem like a stupid question but why is there a shortage of Flash Memory and 
> > Low-ESR Tantalum capacitors to do with Mobile phones?
> > 
> > (All my phones that I have had could never be flashed I dont think without paying the 
> > licensed dealer a certain amount $45 or so to have a look at it.)
> 
> 	I would blame the Flash shortage on digital cameras, portable .mp3
> players, and "embedded internet appliances" before I would blame it on
> phones.  My phone has less then 1k of flash, judging by the number of
> entries I can put in the phone list.  My Camera came with a 16Mb package.

Just a thought: where is the embedded software stored? You know, the stuff
that gives you the phone list and different languages and ring
sounds. Would that be in some sort of ROM, or just Flash? My guess would
be Flash.

-- 
8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------
Ian Tester   *8)#          \7\    LINUX: because geeks will find a way
imroy@zipworld.com.au       \7\      http://www.zipworld.com.au/~imroy



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 14:41:01 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:32:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: Flash short to do with mobiles
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>Just a thought: where is the embedded software stored? You know, the stuff
>that gives you the phone list and different languages and ring
>sounds. Would that be in some sort of ROM, or just Flash? My guess would
>be Flash.

This is true.  However, even these days, a cellular phone doesn't need anywhere 
near 16MB of memory. (I'd be surprised if my Nokia 6185 has much more than 2MB)
Trying to find actual specifications from a manufacturer's website is nigh 
impossible.

On the other hand, cell-phones are selling in ungodly numbers every day, whereas 
memory for digital cameras isn't.

Barry

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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: Barry Callahan 
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:06:46 +1000 (EST)
X-Sender: awiggins@paulaner.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Flash short to do with mobiles
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On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Barry Callahan wrote:

> >Just a thought: where is the embedded software stored? You know, the stuff
> >that gives you the phone list and different languages and ring
> >sounds. Would that be in some sort of ROM, or just Flash? My guess would
> >be Flash.
> 
> This is true.  However, even these days, a cellular phone doesn't need anywhere 
> near 16MB of memory. (I'd be surprised if my Nokia 6185 has much more than 2MB)
> Trying to find actual specifications from a manufacturer's website is nigh 
> impossible.
> 
> On the other hand, cell-phones are selling in ungodly numbers every day, whereas 
> memory for digital cameras isn't.

	Look at the number of mobile phones in use today and look at the
number of digital cameras. One it the norm, the other is more of a yupie
toy... Besides I think you'll find the flash is a lot bigger in your
mobile then you think, specially with the newer ones...

	Cheers Adam

P.S. This is probably gone too far off topic now...

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Message-ID: 
From: Jeff Sutherland 
To: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" ,
        "'Chris Price'"
	 
Cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" 
Subject: RE: Problems with uudecode/uucodec.c?
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:52:17 -0400
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I don't think there's any bug in BLOB.  I downloaded many times on another
platform at 115200, always with success.  I'll bet the trouble you're having
is with the auto timeout "feature" of the RS232 driver/receiver chip on the
Assabet serial port 1 "eating" the first couple of characters at the start
of your download.  The timeout value is pretty quick, about 15 seconds, so
you need to send some dummy characters to the Assabet then begin your real
download almost immediately.  We found this when debugging just such a
problem in the WindowsCE download utility.

//Jeff

> This is i mean maybe a bug in this version :p
> I have tested it many times for download kernel or 
> ramdisk,sometimes it's
> success,others it's failure.
> I alos test it on 9600 baud for download kernel,it's better 
> than 115200
> baud,but takes a lot of time.Maybe we should check this 
> uucodec.c again.
> 
> 
> 						Chester
> 
> > You have 60 seconds to switch your terminal emulator to the 
> same speed
> > and start downloading. After that blob will switch back to 
> 9600 baud.
> > 
> > *** Timeout exceeded. Aborting.
> > 
> > (Please switch your terminal emulator back to 9600 baud)
> > *** Uudecode receive failed
> > Loading kernel from flash .... done
> > 
> > 
> > 	I am using minicom under Linux. My board is attached to 
> /dev/ttyS0. I
> > have attempted to use both the minicom upload ascii file feature and
> > uploading from a seperate console using 'uudecode zImage zImage >
> > /dev/ttyS0' both have the same results.
> > 
> > 	Any suggestions?
> > 
> > 	Cheers
> > 
> > 	Chris
> 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 18:27:30 2000
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Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site.  Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry with displays that are as much eye-popping as they are eye catching.

Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging 30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and vision.

If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff!   Go to http://2704962006/

Opera Portables, Inc.

All removes honored at http://2704962006/removes.htm
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 19:24:33 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:23:46 -0600
From: Chris Price 
Organization: Montage IT Services
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Subject: Almost there - booting assabet
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C7FB22A8CDBBEF403E745615
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



	Hi;

	The saga continues;

	My problem late yesterday (could not download kernel image) was solved
today by re-attaching the SA1111 daughterboard to my SA1110 eval board.

	I have built a 2.4.0-test1 kernel with Russell's and Nico's patches, as
well as a slight mod to the head-sa1100.S file in
arch/arm/boot/compressed sent to me by Jeff Sutherland:


edit linux/arch/arm/boot/compressed/head-sa1100.S and at the top where

mov r8, r0
mov r9, r1

replace with

mov r8, #0
mov r9, #25

rebuild the kernel.


	I can download this kernel image. When I type boot at the blob command
line, I get:

blob> download kernel
Switching to 115200 baud 
You have 60 seconds to switch your terminal emulator to the same speed
and
start downloading. After that blob will switch back to 9600
baud.              
............................................................................................................                                                                            
(Please switch your terminal emulator back to 9600 baud) 
Received 621716 (0x00097C94)
bytes.                                                          blob>
boot                                                                                  
Starting kernel
...                                                            

	At this point the boot process hangs, my led light D8 starts flashing
green and the led D11 goes solid orange.

	Also, my attached LCD displays the 'penguin' image logo and has a
flashing cursor.	
To me, this indicates that the assabet is starting to load the kernel
image I have downloaded, but fails at the first step.

	Any ideas?

	Cheers

	Chris
--------------C7FB22A8CDBBEF403E745615
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begin:vcard 
n:Price;Chris
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.montage.ca
org:MONTAGE eIntegration(TM) Inc.;Technical Delivery Team
adr:;;;Calgary;Alberta;;CANADA
version:2.1
email;internet:chris.price@montage.ca
title:Systems Specialist
fn:Chris Price
end:vcard

--------------C7FB22A8CDBBEF403E745615--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 19:53:08 2000
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From: Jeff Sutherland 
To: "'Chris Price'" ,
        "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'"
	 
Subject: RE: Almost there - booting assabet
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:51:57 -0400
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> (Please switch your terminal emulator back to 9600 baud) 
> Received 621716 (0x00097C94)
> bytes.                                                          blob>
> boot                                                          
>                         
> Starting kernel
> ...                                                            
> 
> 	At this point the boot process hangs, my led light D8 
> starts flashing
> green and the led D11 goes solid orange.
> 
> 	Also, my attached LCD displays the 'penguin' image logo 
> and has a
> flashing cursor.	
> To me, this indicates that the assabet is starting to load the kernel
> image I have downloaded, but fails at the first step.
> 
> 	Any ideas?
> 
> 	Cheers
> 
> 	Chris

Sounds like it's time to get your ramdisk loaded.  If D8 continues to flash
steadily, that means the kernel is in fact running, but maybe didn't finish
the init process in your case because it didn't find the ramdisk.  By
default the kernel expects the serial console to be set at 9600 baud, so, if
you downloaded using minicom at 115200 you won't see anything on the screen
until you switch back to 9600.  Makes it _real hard_ to see the early boot
messages.  My solution: edit head-sa1100.S to run early serial output at
115200.  Edit /etc/inittab on the ramdisk to run the console at 115200.
Twiddle BLOB too to always run at 115200 then there's no more messing about
with minicom (or whatever) and you can see everything happen.

//Jeff
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 15 22:54:04 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Duncan 
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Opera Portables SPAM
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I have reported this abuse to verio.com, the company hosting the web site,
and to dialsprint.net, where the message originated. Perhaps majordomo
could be configured to match sender address to a database of subscribers,
rejecting messages to those not on the list.

Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
related messages to be directed.

-Glen

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:20:36 -0500
From: Opera5@veriomail.com
Subject: Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv

Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site.  
Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry
with displays that are as much eye-popping as they are eye catching.

Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo
Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging
30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and
vision.

If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff!   Go to http://2704962006/

Opera Portables, Inc.

All removes honored at http://2704962006/removes.htm
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 00:12:42 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:12:06 -0700
From: Bob Campbell 
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Organization: Universal Electronics Inc.
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If you still need low-ESR caps you should be able to get them as samples from Kemet
at www.kemet.com.  Kemet part numbers:

T494D157K006AS
T494D476K016AS

Double check those numbers for yourself, I'm prone to typo's.
I just received mine and  It only took about a week to get them :-)

Also, as I stated in an earlier posting I was able to get my Flash Memory through
Arrow Electronics, Inc.  (877) 237-8621.  At the time they said they had over 800 pcs.
I don't know if they have any left to give out by now though.

Now if I could only get the EDO DRAM, I'm not out of options yet.

Bob


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 01:09:47 2000
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Reply-To: 
From: "Rick Schneeman" 
To: "LART List" 
Subject: Flash Driver and BLOB
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:10:41 -0700
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Has anyone been able to use the Linux flash driver for the sa-1110 based
ASSABET? I am trying to use BLOB to boot the ramdisk/kernel pair in
standalone mode from the flash. I am trying to write the two images to the
flash device using the driver but have not been successful. Has anyone tried
this? I need to know if the partition information for the various defines in
the flash.h driver requires specific values or is it user defined. Also,
does anyone have any secrets for sucessfully making the flash filesystem and
writing the images to it? Finally, is there any special magic needed for
BLOB to understand that the two images are located in the flash area located
just after the BLOB. Erik seems to think there is none but he cannot
empirically test this out at the moment. Any help would be appreciated....

-Rick


Rick Schneeman, Computer Scientist
US Department of Commerce
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Drive, Mail Stop 8220
Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899-8220 USA
rschneeman@nist.gov 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 01:21:53 2000
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Precedence: bulk




>and to dialsprint.net, where the message originated. Perhaps majordomo
>could be configured to match sender address to a database of subscribers,
>rejecting messages to those not on the list.

That will reject me when i send stuf from work.


>Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
>prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
>filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
>related messages to be directed.


this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
needed.

>
>-Glen
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:20:36 -0500
>From: Opera5@veriomail.com
>Subject: Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv
>
>Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site.
>Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry
>with displays that are as much eye-popping as they are eye catching.
>
>Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo
>Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging
>30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and
>vision.
>
>If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff!
Go to http://2704962006/
>
>Opera Portables, Inc.
>
>All removes honored at http://2704962006/removes.htm
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>
>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 01:53:55 2000
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 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:49:15 -0700
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X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:48:56 -0700
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: Derek Lassen 
Subject: Re: How to avoid SPAM
In-Reply-To: <001201bfd720$7b1ac320$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com
 >
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

How about if everybody has a signature code prepended to their user code?
Any mail not so equipped gets dropped.
(Preferrabley with a spam notice to the offender's ISP).
The codes would need to be edited out before the list is mailed out.

Or, if we got really cute, we could use PGP....

(s) Derek


At 07:21 PM 6/15/00 -0400, you wrote:



> >and to dialsprint.net, where the message originated. Perhaps majordomo
> >could be configured to match sender address to a database of subscribers,
> >rejecting messages to those not on the list.
>
>That will reject me when i send stuf from work.
>
>
> >Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
> >prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
> >filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
> >related messages to be directed.
>
>
>this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
>of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
>exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
>needed.
>
> >
> >-Glen
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:20:36 -0500
> >From: Opera5@veriomail.com
> >Subject: Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv
> >
> >Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site.
> >Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry
> >with displays that are as much eye-popping as they are eye catching.
> >
> >Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo
> >Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging
> >30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and
> >vision.
> >
> >If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff!
>Go to http://2704962006/
> >
> >Opera Portables, Inc.
> >
> >All removes honored at http://2704962006/removes.htm
> >--
> >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> >the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> >Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> >
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 02:38:14 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 19:26:00 -0500
From: "Ralph Green, Jr." 
Subject: Re: Opera Portables SPAM
X-Sender: Ralph.Green@pop.mcit.com
To: yassino 
Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Message-id: <3.0.5.32.20000615192600.01448e70@pop.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Howdy,
 In Eudora, I just added a filter to move entries containing
lart@lart.tudelft.nl in any header line to my lart folder.  I expect most
email programs can do something similar.  I kind of like being able to
post from work or home.  As long as the spam load stays small, I would
prefer to leave things as they are.
Good day,
Ralph Green, Jr.

In response to the welcome remarks of yassino at 07:21 PM 6/15/00 -0400:
>this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
>of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
>exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
>needed.

--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 02:50:24 2000
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X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:47:33 -0700
To: "Linux Advanced Radio Terminal" 
From: Walt Gribben 
Subject: Re: Opera Portables SPAM
In-Reply-To: <001201bfd720$7b1ac320$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com
 >
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Don't have anything new to add on the SPAM bit.  But....


Glen Duncan originally wrote:
>>Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
>>prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
>>filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
>>related messages to be directed.
>

"yassino" replied:
>this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
>of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
>exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
>needed.
>

Is it necessary to add text to the subject line?  Seems easier to use one
of the other header lines for your filtering rule.  


Like:

    Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl

or

    Return-Path: 

Then put everything with one of those headers in your LART folder.

Walt Gribben



    
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 04:47:02 2000
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From: "Mukund Iyer" 
To: "Glen Duncan" , 
Subject: Re: Opera Portables SPAM
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:14:44 +0530
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

>Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
>prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
>filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
>related messages to be directed.


why don't you filter on the To: and Cc: fields? one of these
fields are always lart@lart.tudelft.nl for most messages.
i use this to direct all my mails to a lart folder.

- muks



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 05:21:58 2000
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Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:21:06 -0500
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: How to avoid SPAM
Message-ID: <20000615222106.A20164@ghoti.org>
References: <001201bfd720$7b1ac320$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com <4.2.0.58.20000615164448.00b48e00@mail.clubnet.net>
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In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000615164448.00b48e00@mail.clubnet.net>; from kn6td@clubnet.net on Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:48:56PM -0700
X-URL: http://ghoti.org/~aclark
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X-Operating-System-Uptime: 4:31pm  up 5 days, 16:47,  2 users,  load average: 2.58, 1.61, 1.44
From: Ashley Clark 
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk


--SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

* Derek Lassen in "Re: How to avoid SPAM" dated 2000/06/15 16:48 wrote:

> > >Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
> > >prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
> > >filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LA=
RT
> > >related messages to be directed.
> >
> >this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a l=
ot
> >of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
> >exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
> >needed.

I would really prefer a header, something like=20

X-Mailing-List: lart@blahblah.edu

would be ideal, it can be filtered on, and once all lart mail is in a
folder by itself you know that it is lart related so prepending [lart]
is redundant.

--=20
Ashley Clark

GCS/M d- s:-- a-- C++$ UL++++$ P+>+++ L+++ E W++ N+ o K++ w O M V--
PS+(++) PE(++) Y+ PGP++(+++) t* 5+ X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D G e* h* r++ y+

finger aclark@ghoti.org for GPG public key            http://ghoti.org/

--SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Finger aclark@ghoti.org for public key

iD8DBQE5SZ0i/GKzBErg8u4RAvUiAKDPdPcpdlwORfnO64jLixTBMfFWyQCgtdQb
qr8RU84k2H1O0j+QQALldHA=
=XRK+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 10:52:43 2000
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 01:48:31 -0700
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: Derek Lassen 
Subject: Re: How to avoid SPAM
In-Reply-To: <20000615222106.A20164@ghoti.org>
References: <4.2.0.58.20000615164448.00b48e00@mail.clubnet.net>
 <001201bfd720$7b1ac320$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com <4.2.0.58.20000615164448.00b48e00@mail.clubnet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Geek Code.
Why didn't I think of  that!
:>

At 10:21 PM 6/15/00 -0500, you wrote:
>* Derek Lassen in "Re: How to avoid SPAM" dated 2000/06/15 16:48 wrote:
>
> > > >Also, would anyone else find it usefull if messages sent to the list
> > > >prepended [lart] to the subject? Many mail clients have rule based
> > > >filtering. This would allow you to set up a specific folder for all LART
> > > >related messages to be directed.
> > >
> > >this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
> > >of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
> > >exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
> > >needed.
>
>I would really prefer a header, something like
>
>X-Mailing-List: lart@blahblah.edu
>
>would be ideal, it can be filtered on, and once all lart mail is in a
>folder by itself you know that it is lart related so prepending [lart]
>is redundant.
>
>--
>Ashley Clark
>
>GCS/M d- s:-- a-- C++$ UL++++$ P+>+++ L+++ E W++ N+ o K++ w O M V--
>PS+(++) PE(++) Y+ PGP++(+++) t* 5+ X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D G e* h* r++ y+
>
>finger aclark@ghoti.org for GPG public key            http://ghoti.org/


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 15:48:37 2000
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:48:22 +0200
From: Olaf Ernst 
Organization: Me ? Organized ?
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Hi everybody, 


We (my harware guru Peter and I) are thinking about a redesign
of the LART boart. The main reason is to use more common parts
and not to add more gimmics. 
Because we know that everbody has a different unsterstanding 
of "common parts" we need some input from the list.
So, what parts do you think sould be used as flash,ram... ?



greetings,

		olaf




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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 16:20:28 2000
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nicolas Pitre 
To: Rick Schneeman 
cc: LART List , sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com
Subject: Re: Flash Driver and BLOB
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On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Rick Schneeman wrote:

> Has anyone been able to use the Linux flash driver for the sa-1110 based
> ASSABET? I am trying to use BLOB to boot the ramdisk/kernel pair in
> standalone mode from the flash. I am trying to write the two images to the
> flash device using the driver but have not been successful. Has anyone tried
> this? I need to know if the partition information for the various defines in
> the flash.h driver requires specific values or is it user defined. Also,
> does anyone have any secrets for sucessfully making the flash filesystem and
> writing the images to it? Finally, is there any special magic needed for
> BLOB to understand that the two images are located in the flash area located
> just after the BLOB. Erik seems to think there is none but he cannot
> empirically test this out at the moment. Any help would be appreciated....

The "partition" concept is only a simple offset into the flash.  Thus you
should reserve a partition where BLOB and the kernel actually reside, and
define some other partitions for the real filesystems.

Next you might put any filesystem in the flash.  JFFS would be the best
choice but it is not ready yet.  In the mean time ext2 might do it as
well.

You create a filesystem the same way you would for a ramdisk image.  Then
you only need to write that filesystem image file at the right offset in
flash and tell the kernel to use the right device for its root filesystem.

Eventually the flash driver would benifit from being merged with the MTD
patches, but that's another matter.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 16:31:22 2000
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Olaf Ernst wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> We (my harware guru Peter and I) are thinking about a redesign
> of the LART boart. The main reason is to use more common parts
> and not to add more gimmics.
> Because we know that everbody has a different unsterstanding
> of "common parts" we need some input from the list.
> So, what parts do you think sould be used as flash,ram... ?

I've been wondering the same thing, but on a slightly different tack...
If flash is such a pain to get (and it is, although I have a lot of 5V
stuff on the shelves...), how about trying a design with absolutely
minimal flash (or Eprom, as we don't want anything in there but a
bootloader), plus a chunk of battery-backed SRAM instead of flash, or,
better, get the SA1100 to keep the DRAM alive in self-refresh low-power
mode. 
I'd favour the bbSRAM-as-flash option, certainly while LART is a
software development tool...


Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 16:37:44 2000
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From: Jamey Hicks 
To: "'Nicolas Pitre'" , Rick Schneeman 
Cc: LART List , sa1100-linux@pa.dec.com
Subject: RE: Flash Driver and BLOB
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> Eventually the flash driver would benifit from being merged 
> with the MTD patches, but that's another matter.

I agree that we should merge the flash driver with MTD.  It's on my list of
things to do, but I won't mind if someone else gets to it first.  It should
be very straightforward to make an MTD module from the flash driver.

-Jamey
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 16 21:15:52 2000
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:15:33 -0400
From: "T.Sullivan" 
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For those who expressed interest earlier in Compaq's new 206 MHz
StrongArm 1110 PDA - iPAQ H3600, Slashdot has just posted an article
about the Linux porting work being down at
http://www.handheld.org/Compaq/index.html

They apparently have X running with touch screen, buttons and backlight
support as of June 15th. They also have a boot loader in development
which will allow saving the WinCE image for later reloading...

Terry

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jun 17 06:30:37 2000
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Subject: Free alternative to MP3?
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This looks interesting - saw it on Slashdot:
http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html

Let's see - open source hardware running open source software to play an
open source sound protocol... works for me. :)

Mike
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jun 17 08:52:17 2000
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Johnathan Leppert 
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I don't think they'll ever be able to get far. It has taken MPEG years to
advance their formats, and now that they finally have gotten somewhere and
are actually making money (and lots too!) they have plenty for R&D and
self-promo. 

Johnathan

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:31:10 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote:

>  This looks interesting - saw it on Slashdot:
>  http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html
>  
>  Let's see - open source hardware running open source software to play an
>  open source sound protocol... works for me. :)
>  
>  Mike
>  --
>  To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>  the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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_______________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jun 17 18:01:49 2000
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From: Michael Vanecek 
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I think the same thing was said about Linux...

Mike

Johnathan Leppert wrote:
> 
> I don't think they'll ever be able to get far. It has taken MPEG years to
> advance their formats, and now that they finally have gotten somewhere and
> are actually making money (and lots too!) they have plenty for R&D and
> self-promo.
> 
> Johnathan
> 
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:31:10 -0500, Michael Vanecek wrote:
> 
> >  This looks interesting - saw it on Slashdot:
> >  http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html
> >
> >  Let's see - open source hardware running open source software to play an
> >  open source sound protocol... works for me. :)
> >
> >  Mike
> >  --
> >  To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> >  the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> >  Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
> Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
> 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 20 02:52:24 2000
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:54:35 -0500
From: Michael Vanecek 
Subject: MachZ Chip?
Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
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Has anyone heard of the MachZ chip for Linux, and how does it compare to
the SA1100?

http://www.zflinux.com/ is the home page.

Mike
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 20 15:56:24 2000
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From: "William Bloom" 
To: "Lart@Lart.Tudelft.Nl" 
Subject: Power Supply Coils for the V4 Lart.
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:56:57 -0700
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The LTC1266CS looks like a great choice for the power supply.  I am about to
prototype it. Has anyone published a BOM for the V4 that I missed?  The
question is which 22uH coil to choose.  I have used coils from Sumida in the
past - something like the CDRH4D28-220.  Surface mount, low resistance.
Should handle 700 mA.  Is this a reasonable choice or can someone recommend
an alternative.

Thanks for the help

Bill Bloom
CardioNet Inc.
858-550-0961 USA

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 20 19:24:07 2000
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:22:59 +0800
From: Dennis Soong 
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William Bloom wrote:
> 
> The LTC1266CS looks like a great choice for the power supply.  I am about to
> prototype it. Has anyone published a BOM for the V4 that I missed?  The
> question is which 22uH coil to choose.  I have used coils from Sumida in the
> past - something like the CDRH4D28-220.  Surface mount, low resistance.
> Should handle 700 mA.  Is this a reasonable choice or can someone recommend
> an alternative.

Looks likes better spec. than the COILCRAFT's equivalent DO1608C-223.

	see	http://www.coilcraft.com/pdf/do1608.pdf

But the TDK SLS6028 series seems to be even better, if you don't mind
the footprint is a little bit bigger (4.5x4.5 vs. 6.0x6.0).

	see	http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/e531_slf6028.pdf

By the way, has anyone considered using FAIRCHILD's FDS6982S instead of
the IRF7301?

Dennis
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 21 00:26:40 2000
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From: "yassino" 
To: "Michael Vanecek" 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: MachZ Chip?
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:26:28 -0400
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Wow !!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Vanecek 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl 
Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 11:34 PM
Subject: MachZ Chip?


>Has anyone heard of the MachZ chip for Linux, and how does it compare to
>the SA1100?
>
>http://www.zflinux.com/ is the home page.
>
>Mike
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 21 02:51:17 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:51:04 +1000 (EST)
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	If your after a bare JVM for StrongARM have a look at the FLUX OS
Toolkit (links off the PLEB website http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pleb) it
has a port for the DNARD Shark (SA-110 hardware reference platform) so a
port to SA-11X0 boards should be easy. It also has a basic bare JVM
running on the x86 port so that should be easy to get working on a SA-11X0
platform.

	Cheers Adam

On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, Mark Medovich wrote:

> Sorry about the unsolicited light spamming but ...
> 
> If there is anyone in this list who would like to see Java "on bare metal" for
> l'art, please let me know.  
>  
> We will supply free development tools and support to anyone interested.
>  
> Currently we are running on SA285 so the port to SA1110 shouldn't be too difficult.
>  
> The primary element we are missing is a graphics driver for awt.  The classpath
> awt libraries aren't included in our (Jemini) distribution for this reason, but we think
> some graphics person can get this running is pretty short order.
>  
> Websprocket GPL Java sources are here: http://www.websprocket.com/jemini.html
>  
> and the extensible machine and threaded device driver specs are here:
> http://www.websprocket.com/technical.html
>  
> 
> Mark
>  
> 

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In case you haven't figgured it out, the actual link is:
http://www.handhelds.org/Compaq/index.html

(handheld*S*.org)

Dan

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
[mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of T.Sullivan
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 2:16 PM
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal
Subject: Linux port for Compaq's colour iPAQ H3600 StrongArm PDA


For those who expressed interest earlier in Compaq's new 206 MHz
StrongArm 1110 PDA - iPAQ H3600, Slashdot has just posted an article
about the Linux porting work being down at
http://www.handheld.org/Compaq/index.html

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__________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 21 15:09:17 2000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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Hello,

I am wondering if we are any closer to some schematics/software to program a blank 
flash memory/LART?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 21 15:42:09 2000
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Message-ID: <3950C5F9.40206B77@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:41:13 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Matt Donohoe wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am wondering if we are any closer to some schematics/software to program a blank
> flash memory/LART?


Yes, I got the changes to the .h done to define the 1100 instead of the
1110, dull but unproblematic. I've also done the changes to the .cpp, it
still compiles under NT and linux. All I need to to is cobble an LPT ->
jtag lead together, and test it. Possibly this evening, possibly
tomorrow, possibly the weekend, depending on workload. 

Steve.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 21 20:00:20 2000
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Yesterday I wrote the following in reply to a broken URL included in
an e-mail sent to the LART mailing list:

> In case you haven't figgured it out, the actual link is:
> http://www.handhelds.org/Compaq/index.html
>
> (handheld*S*.org)

Un-intentionally, this helpfull correction was taken as a slap in the
face by some people of this mailling list and I have been informed by
the author of the original link that it was quite rude and offensive.
 I apologize for saying anything that might have been construed as
out of line.  I did not mean any insult; the "you" in my reply was a
generic "you, the LART mailing list reader", not "you, Mr. Sullivan".

Again, I apolgoze for any hurt feelings on this.

Dan

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 22 00:33:53 2000
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From: "Shdwdrgn" 
To: 
References:  <3950C5F9.40206B77@steves-house.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Programmer for LART
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:28:15 -0600
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Sweet!  I've been waiting for this.  I don't have any special programmers at
home, but I do want to get my hands on a Lart board to experiment with.  On
the 8-bit computers, it was easy.  I used a standard eprom programmer, and
all my eproms were socketed dips...  Things aren't so easy these days, with
surface-mount. 

By the way, anyone else catch the news that IBM is releasing a new hard
drive?  1Gb in a CF+ form-factor.  The platter is only the size of a U.S.
quarter, and it can take up to 1500G's (non-operating).  What could we do
with a Gig of storage on a wearable PC? 


----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Wiseman 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Programmer for LART


> Matt Donohoe wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am wondering if we are any closer to some schematics/software to
program a blank
> > flash memory/LART?
>
>
> Yes, I got the changes to the .h done to define the 1100 instead of the
> 1110, dull but unproblematic. I've also done the changes to the .cpp, it
> still compiles under NT and linux. All I need to to is cobble an LPT ->
> jtag lead together, and test it. Possibly this evening, possibly
> tomorrow, possibly the weekend, depending on workload.
>
> Steve.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 22 05:16:40 2000
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From: "Shdwdrgn" 
To: "Matt Donohoe" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: Programmer for LART
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:15:40 -0600
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Sure thing -- here you go...
http://www.storage.ibm.com/press/hdd/micro/20000620.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Donohoe [mailto:TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 6:50 PM
To: Shdwdrgn@sourpuss.net
Subject: Re: Programmer for LART


Would you be able to send me the URL for this?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au

Original message from: "Shdwdrgn"
>Sweet!  I've been waiting for this.  I don't have any special programmers
at
>home, but I do want to get my hands on a Lart board to experiment with.  On
>the 8-bit computers, it was easy.  I used a standard eprom programmer, and
>all my eproms were socketed dips...  Things aren't so easy these days, with
>surface-mount. 
>
>By the way, anyone else catch the news that IBM is releasing a new hard
>drive?  1Gb in a CF+ form-factor.  The platter is only the size of a U.S.
>quarter, and it can take up to 1500G's (non-operating).  What could we do
>with a Gig of storage on a wearable PC? 
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Wiseman 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:41 AM
>Subject: Re: Programmer for LART
>
>
>> Matt Donohoe wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I am wondering if we are any closer to some schematics/software to
>program a blank
>> > flash memory/LART?
>>
>>
>> Yes, I got the changes to the .h done to define the 1100 instead of the
>> 1110, dull but unproblematic. I've also done the changes to the .cpp, it
>> still compiles under NT and linux. All I need to to is cobble an LPT ->
>> jtag lead together, and test it. Possibly this evening, possibly
>> tomorrow, possibly the weekend, depending on workload.
>>
>> Steve.
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 22 05:12:09 2000
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From: "Shdwdrgn" 
To: 
Subject: RE: Programmer for LART
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:11:36 -0600
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Sorry, I meant GB, not Gb...

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Lassen [mailto:kn6td@clubnet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:17 PM
To: Shdwdrgn
Subject: Re: Programmer for LART


Cool.
Pretty soon they'll have it up to a gigabyte.

:>

(s) Derek
At 04:28 PM 6/21/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Sweet!  I've been waiting for this.  I don't have any special programmers
at
>home, but I do want to get my hands on a Lart board to experiment with.  On
>the 8-bit computers, it was easy.  I used a standard eprom programmer, and
>all my eproms were socketed dips...  Things aren't so easy these days, with
>surface-mount. 
>
>By the way, anyone else catch the news that IBM is releasing a new hard
>drive?  1Gb in a CF+ form-factor.  The platter is only the size of a U.S.
>quarter, and it can take up to 1500G's (non-operating).  What could we do
>with a Gig of storage on a wearable PC? 
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Wiseman 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:41 AM
>Subject: Re: Programmer for LART
>
>
> > Matt Donohoe wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am wondering if we are any closer to some schematics/software to
>program a blank
> > > flash memory/LART?
> >
> >
> > Yes, I got the changes to the .h done to define the 1100 instead of the
> > 1110, dull but unproblematic. I've also done the changes to the .cpp, it
> > still compiles under NT and linux. All I need to to is cobble an LPT ->
> > jtag lead together, and test it. Possibly this evening, possibly
> > tomorrow, possibly the weekend, depending on workload.
> >
> > Steve.
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> >
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 22 06:08:26 2000
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:06:54 +1000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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I am wondering if somebody could supply me with a URL or email of a mail-order 
place in any country that can supply a SA-1100 CPU..

I have just been stuffing around with arrow.com and all them and I am fed up, they 
almost never return EMAIL's...

Need to pay via Credit Card though, price is not really that important, any FADES110 
CPU is fine.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 22 17:24:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:23:14 -0700
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From: Varek 
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Hi guys and gals.  I Thought the list might be interested in this.

IBM press release:
http://www.ibm.com/news/2000/06/202.phtml

And the specs are here:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hardsoft/diskdrdl/micro/datasheet.htm

Can anyone tell me where to find information on "CF+** Type II format"
and "PCMCIA Type II"?  When IBM announced the 340Mb Microdrive a little
while ago I recall looking for information on the HW interface to get an
idea what it would take to connect one to the LART but I had trouble
finding much of anything in the way of technical info.

Thanx much...
--
Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 23 10:44:55 2000
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From: Derek Lassen 
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Connector Layouts:
http://frcatel.utc.sk/hwb/co_Pcmcia.html
http://frcatel.utc.sk/hwb/co_CardBus.html
http://frcatel.utc.sk/hwb/co_CompactFlash.html

Compact Flash info:
http://www.sandisk.com/oem/pcm_tech.htm

Some PDFs about CF and PCMCIA:
http://www.sandisk.com/oem/tech_support.htm

HTH,
(s) Derek
At 08:23 AM 6/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi guys and gals.  I Thought the list might be interested in this.
>
>IBM press release:
>http://www.ibm.com/news/2000/06/202.phtml
>
>And the specs are here:
>http://www.storage.ibm.com/hardsoft/diskdrdl/micro/datasheet.htm
>
>Can anyone tell me where to find information on "CF+** Type II format"
>and "PCMCIA Type II"?  When IBM announced the 340Mb Microdrive a little
>while ago I recall looking for information on the HW interface to get an
>idea what it would take to connect one to the LART but I had trouble
>finding much of anything in the way of technical info.
>
>Thanx much...
>--
>Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
>varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 02:49:44 2000
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From: Hugues Belanger 
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Hi All,

I'm getting ready to port LRP to use with LART and I was wondering if Compaq
tool chains for their personal server would work for me...

Please see :http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/

http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/sw_download.html

Could you please let me know ASAP...

Thanks

Hugues Belanger



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 09:38:47 2000
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At 02:52 +0200 26-06-2000, Hugues Belanger wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I'm getting ready to port LRP to use with LART and I was wondering if Compaq
>tool chains for their personal server would work for me...
>
>Please see :http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/
>
>http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/sw_download.html

I see no reason why it shouldn't work. BTW, you can also use
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/

HTH,

JDB.

--
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:28:57 +1000
From: Matt Donohoe 
Subject: Programmer
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Hello,

I am wondering if somebody could update the status of the JTAG LART programmer?

I understand that you may be on holidays..... I leave for mine to the snow soon....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 14:46:11 2000
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Message-ID: <39575058.11AA2680@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:45:12 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Matt Donohoe wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am wondering if somebody could update the status of the JTAG LART programmer?
> 
> I understand that you may be on holidays..... I leave for mine to the snow soon....
> 

Spent 4 hours on it yesterday- built a cable which works fine (4
resistors only). There's something still wrong, though. I send what
looks like a valid IDcode command, and get random shite back. It's going
to be obvious when I find it, but...
I am _NOT_ on holidays. I've been working 18+ hour days, and LART stuff
has not been at the top of the pile. Bear with me, or have a go
yourself- it's not hard, just dull. 

Steve.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 15:23:59 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:

> Matt Donohoe wrote:
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am wondering if somebody could update the status of the JTAG LART programmer?
> > 
> > I understand that you may be on holidays..... I leave for mine to the snow soon....
> > 
> 
> Spent 4 hours on it yesterday- built a cable which works fine (4
> resistors only). There's something still wrong, though. I send what
> looks like a valid IDcode command, and get random shite back. It's going
> to be obvious when I find it, but...

	Funny yours works. Mine didn't work with PLEB and a laptop with
the 4 resistor arrangement. I've got code for a starting point (maybe a
bit over engineered), using it and writting a routine to do the flash
burning you can program a PLEB/LART/etc. I've not written the flash
routines yet though. I hope to start this soon and finish in 2 weeks or
so.

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 16:16:00 2000
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Message-ID: <395765B0.22ACF1E6@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:16:16 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

>         Funny yours works. Mine didn't work with PLEB and a laptop with
> the 4 resistor arrangement.

Mine's on the worlds most generic P100 clone board, rather than a
portable. What value resistors did you have, and where?

> I've got code for a starting point (maybe a
> bit over engineered), using it and writting a routine to do the flash
> burning you can program a PLEB/LART/etc. I've not written the flash
> routines yet though. I hope to start this soon and finish in 2 weeks or
> so.

Is this the DEC code that Nicolas Pitre compileed for Linux, or some
other? The DEC stuff is much nicer than I would have written, it's just
that my LART is playing silly bu**ers at the moment. I see no fatal
flaws. (And some nice chap has just stuck some Telcom Max811 equivalents
through my door while I was at a customer. I wonder if my bodged reset
cct has been the problem.)


Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 26 16:31:46 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: Steve Wiseman 
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:30:04 +1000 (EST)
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:

> Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:
> 
> >         Funny yours works. Mine didn't work with PLEB and a laptop with
> > the 4 resistor arrangement.
> 
> Mine's on the worlds most generic P100 clone board, rather than a
> portable. What value resistors did you have, and where?

	I tried like the Assabet cable set up with 100ohm resistors and
the voltage at the PLEB JTAG port was 3.9 volts which seems to lock up the
JTAG port. I tried using an alternate and know to work jtag programmer
(running at 3.3v) and the PLEB unit responded fine. Changing to larger
resisters didn't move the voltage at all so I gave up and used a 3.3volt
(5volt tolerent) buffer. The resistors were in series with the signals.
 > 
> > I've got code for a starting point (maybe a
> > bit over engineered), using it and writting a routine to do the flash
> > burning you can program a PLEB/LART/etc. I've not written the flash
> > routines yet though. I hope to start this soon and finish in 2 weeks or
> > so.
> 
> Is this the DEC code that Nicolas Pitre compileed for Linux, or some
> other? The DEC stuff is much nicer than I would have written, it's just
> that my LART is playing silly bu**ers at the moment. I see no fatal
> flaws. (And some nice chap has just stuck some Telcom Max811 equivalents
> through my door while I was at a customer. I wonder if my bodged reset
> cct has been the problem.)

	No its the base code for a JTAG interface I'm working on. The idea
is to use it to program flashes/CPLDs and well as do assebly testing for
any board with JTAG interfaces. I have the base running and you can do
things like manually drive the JTAG signals (using a gtk interface) or you
can use it to play with the JTAG. The sample code gets the device ID of
the SA1110 on the assabet board. Its cleanish but over-engineered code.
	Its avaliable from ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/awiggins/

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 27 00:42:17 2000
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:41:48 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:

> A note to the paranoid: just using resistors off of a PC parport will
> violate the SA-1100 input voltage specs.

Yeah. I couldn't really recommend it- the resistor size I use limits the
speed possible, but as my PC is so damn slow I don't care. Buffers are
the way to go. Possibly something as crude as a 330R resistor into a
yellow LED (Vf of 2.5V ish) would give you pretty lights and the voltage
clamping you need. Cheap, cheerful and pin-mount. I'll try it when
things start to work. (The 'scope is hinting at glitches on the TCK line
at the moment on a low -> low 'transition'. Swift rewrite coming. Bah. 

> I see why the hackish Intel
> solution might work; personally I'd feel safer with something like a
> 74AHC244 (or any other 5V-compatible buffer that runs on 3V3) in between.
> >From rev 3 onwards the LART JTAG connector offers a 3V3 power line that you
> can use to power such a buffer.

Ah. That's v.handy. Thanks. 

> If I read the specs right the JTAG should still work even with reset tied
> low. As I have no JTAG yet I can't check that hypothesis though.

"If the boundary-scan interface is to be used, then nTRST must be driven
low, and then high again."

suggests otherwise. I just tied it to nRESET. A pullup on the jtag
plug-in would also do. 

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 27 00:59:53 2000
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Subject: Re: Linux port for Compaq's colour iPAQ H3600 StrongArm PDA
In-Reply-To: <394A7CD5.DB742EC@terus.envmtl.com> from "T.Sullivan" at "Jun 16, 0 03:15:33 pm"
To: t.sullivan@terus.envmtl.com (T.Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:59:51 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
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Terry Sullivan wrote:
> For those who expressed interest earlier in Compaq's new 206 MHz
> StrongArm 1110 PDA - iPAQ H3600, Slashdot has just posted an article
> about the Linux porting work being down at
> http://www.handheld.org/Compaq/index.html

So they were Slashdotted ;-). I told them to be careful with such
"explosive" content...

> They apparently have X running with touch screen, buttons and backlight
> support as of June 15th. They also have a boot loader in development
> which will allow saving the WinCE image for later reloading...

Not quite sure if they already have all I/O running. When I visited
Compaq two weeks ago they had Linux running on the iPAQ (although
I didn't see it), but there were some minor problems with the LCD.
Oh well, porting the SA-1100 LCD driver will cost you about a day,
so I guess that was done rather quickly. I don't know about all
the buttons: they shouldn't be too difficult, but I can imagine
that it took some time to work that out.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 27 01:03:53 2000
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Subject: Re: Compaq Tool Chains
In-Reply-To: <3956A95F.8FA3D23B@cgocable.net> from Hugues Belanger at "Jun 25, 0 08:52:47 pm"
To: hbelange@cgocable.net (Hugues Belanger)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:03:50 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
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Hugues Belanger wrote:
> I'm getting ready to port LRP to use with LART and I was wondering if Compaq
> tool chains for their personal server would work for me...
> 
> Please see :http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/
> 
> http://crl.research.compaq.com/projects/personalserver/sw_download.html
> 
> Could you please let me know ASAP...

Yes, it will work. George France and I released our toolchains almost at
the same time (I was a day earlier). The toolchains are made from (almost)
the same source: mine only does C and C++, but Compaq's also has Objective C,
Java, Fortran 77, and Chill support (read: it contains all the compilers from
the GCC).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 27 01:34:38 2000
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Subject: Re: How to avoid SPAM
In-Reply-To: <20000615222106.A20164@ghoti.org> from Ashley Clark at "Jun 15, 0 10:21:06 pm"
To: aclark@ghoti.org (Ashley Clark)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:34:26 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
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Ashley Clark wrote:
> * Derek Lassen in "Re: How to avoid SPAM" dated 2000/06/15 16:48 wrote:
> > >this is a _ must _. I was about to suggest that.  I am subscribed to a lot
> > >of list. And they all end up in a specific folder. LART is the only
> > >exception. I did not wanted to distract dev. fromlart but this _ is _
> > >needed.
> 
> I would really prefer a header, something like 
> 
> X-Mailing-List: lart@blahblah.edu
> 
> would be ideal, it can be filtered on, and once all lart mail is in a
> folder by itself you know that it is lart related so prepending [lart]
> is redundant.

It's already there:

  Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl

This one is unique for all LART mailing list messages. No need to use
special topic lines, they only obscure the subjects, and on a 80 columns
screen they make it more difficult to read the subject lines.

All Majordomo lists use the "Sender" line. If you use procmail to filter
your incoming mail, you can use this rule to filter out LART messages:

  :0:
  * ^Sender:\ owner-lart@lart\.tudelft\.nl
  $HOME/Mail/lart

It works perfectly for me, also for really high volume mailinglists
like linux-kernel (300 messages a day).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun 27 01:58:22 2000
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:25:37 +0200
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Programmer
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>> A note to the paranoid: just using resistors off of a PC parport will
>> violate the SA-1100 input voltage specs.

>Yeah. I couldn't really recommend it- the resistor size I use limits the
>speed possible, but as my PC is so damn slow I don't care. Buffers are
>the way to go. Possibly something as crude as a 330R resistor into a
>yellow LED (Vf of 2.5V ish) would give you pretty lights and the voltage
>clamping you need. Cheap, cheerful and pin-mount.

Eww. The LED solution *should* work; it sounds a bit icky though...

> I'll try it when
>things start to work. (The 'scope is hinting at glitches on the TCK line
>at the moment on a low -> low 'transition'. Swift rewrite coming. Bah.

When I was working with JTAG on LART I noticed that the port is *very*
glitch-sensitive. You may want to tie a 100n cap between nTRST and 3V3 just
to be on the safe side.

>> I see why the hackish Intel
>> solution might work; personally I'd feel safer with something like a
>> 74AHC244 (or any other 5V-compatible buffer that runs on 3V3) in between.
>> >From rev 3 onwards the LART JTAG connector offers a 3V3 power line that you
>> can use to power such a buffer.
>
>Ah. That's v.handy. Thanks.

If you can order through Farnell, they carry the 74LCX244 (111-958) and the
74LVT244 (325-2541). These are SO (SMD) chips, but with an adapter like
item # 547-156 this can be converted to standard .1" pitch. I plan to order
these tomorrow.

>> If I read the specs right the JTAG should still work even with reset tied
>> low. As I have no JTAG yet I can't check that hypothesis though.
>
>"If the boundary-scan interface is to be used, then nTRST must be driven
>low, and then high again."
>
>suggests otherwise. I just tied it to nRESET. A pullup on the jtag
>plug-in would also do.

I was talking about the nRESET line; according to the JTAG spec even the
pulse on nTRST should be optional.

Keep me posted on your progress; I intend to start hacking at Nico's port
of the Intel code this week.

JDB
[who is still waiting for LART rev4 to return from the assemblers]

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 01:27:51 2000
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From: "sipman" 
To: 
Subject: Lcd & xfree86
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:27:42 -0400
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Hi.
I am looking to put x based app on lart. Is there any info on Lcd (12" 15")
prices/port . Basically the question is : Can i run gnome on lart and how or
do i have to wait for the Sa1110 to get more power/memory.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 18:50:36 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:49:32 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
>Eww. The LED solution *should* work; it sounds a bit icky though...

Yeah. I'm trying to avoid silicon availability issues... Works fine, by
the way. 

> > I'll try it when
> >things start to work. (The 'scope is hinting at glitches on the TCK line
> >at the moment on a low -> low 'transition'. Swift rewrite coming. Bah.

470pf on all lines and all is well... Works on my portable, too, which
is a bit of a bonus. 

> I was talking about the nRESET line; according to the JTAG spec even the
> pulse on nTRST should be optional.

Yeah. I misread your mail. Drunk in charge of a keyboard... (The
datasheet strongly favours a rising edge on nTRST before use)
 
> Keep me posted on your progress; I intend to start hacking at Nico's port
> of the Intel code this week.

No need- job done. (Actually, my LART programs and verifies, but doesn't
seem to boot. Ho hum. As per normal, it'll be obvious when I find it.)

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 19:05:38 2000
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>"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
>>Eww. The LED solution *should* work; it sounds a bit icky though...
>
>Yeah. I'm trying to avoid silicon availability issues... Works fine, by
>the way.

Cool. I was a bit worried that the maximum source current of a
(TTL-compatible) parport combined with the V/I curve of the LED might yield
a Vhigh that's a tad on the low side for the CMOS inputs of the SA.

>> Keep me posted on your progress; I intend to start hacking at Nico's port
>> of the Intel code this week.
>
>No need- job done. (Actually, my LART programs and verifies, but doesn't
>seem to boot. Ho hum. As per normal, it'll be obvious when I find it.)

One of the easy gotchas is the address line shuffle that the LART does. If
you don't get it *exactly* right, you'll get the symptoms you describe.

If you like I can copy your setup at my end and try it with a known good LART.

JDB.

--
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
 I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
 All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
 Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 19:39:47 2000
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Message-ID: <395A3870.D9AB8F73@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:40:00 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
> 
> >"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
> >>Eww. The LED solution *should* work; it sounds a bit icky though...
> >
> >Yeah. I'm trying to avoid silicon availability issues... Works fine, by
> >the way.
> 
> Cool. I was a bit worried that the maximum source current of a
> (TTL-compatible) parport combined with the V/I curve of the LED might yield
> a Vhigh that's a tad on the low side for the CMOS inputs of the SA.

Indeed. It worked but was out of spec, so I stuffed a 1N4148 in the
commoned LED cathodes, to get completely legitimate. High is now a happy
3.1V, well in spec. 

> One of the easy gotchas is the address line shuffle that the LART does. If
> you don't get it *exactly* right, you'll get the symptoms you describe.

I did shuffle the data lines, but I'm not quite sure that I need an
address line shuffle except for erase which seems not to be the problem.
given that I'm only erasing one block.  
A swift check shows that my blob image is 14,083 bytes, which seems
v.unlikely, and doesn't seem to match the stated 13,972 bytes on the web
page. (In fact, looking at the binary, it seems that I lose word
alignment at around byte 0x14c0. Any idea what that section is meant to
look like in a hex editor? - I haven't yet built my own blob, I'm
running the precompiled 1.0.7b

> If you like I can copy your setup at my end and try it with a known good LART.

Starting to look tempting if I can't get it together soon. 

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 20:04:23 2000
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At 19:40 +0200 28-06-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:
>> One of the easy gotchas is the address line shuffle that the LART does. If
>> you don't get it *exactly* right, you'll get the symptoms you describe.
>
>I did shuffle the data lines, but I'm not quite sure that I need an
>address line shuffle except for erase which seems not to be the problem.
>given that I'm only erasing one block.

Sorry, you're right -- the address lines only matter when the devices are
programmed off-board. Let's blame that slipup on me skipping lunch (and
thus feeling a tad light in the head).

>A swift check shows that my blob image is 14,083 bytes, which seems
>v.unlikely, and doesn't seem to match the stated 13,972 bytes on the web
>page. (In fact, looking at the binary, it seems that I lose word
>alignment at around byte 0x14c0. Any idea what that section is meant to
>look like in a hex editor? - I haven't yet built my own blob, I'm
>running the precompiled 1.0.7b

According to hexdump, it should be:

00014c0 307c e59f 0003 e79a 027f eb00 3074 e59f
00014d0 0003 e79a 027c eb00 306c e59f 0003 e79a
00014e0 0279 eb00 3064 e59f 0003 e79a 0276 eb00
00014f0 305c e59f 0003 e79a 0273 eb00 3054 e59f
0001500 0003 e79a 0270 eb00 304c e59f 0003 e79a
0001510 026d eb00 3044 e59f 0003 e79a 026a eb00
0001520 303c e59f 0003 e79a 4400 e8bd 0266 ea00
0001530 2048 0000 00c4 0000 00c8 0000 00cc 0000
0001540 00d0 0000 00d4 0000 00d8 0000 00dc 0000
0001550 00e0 0000 00e4 0000 00e8 0000 00ec 0000

>> If you like I can copy your setup at my end and try it with a known good
>>LART.
>
>Starting to look tempting if I can't get it together soon.

OK; I'll be near my gear tomorrow or Friday. It shouldn't take me more than
an hour to cut a cable and test your code.

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 20:05:53 2000
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Subject: Re: Lcd & xfree86
In-Reply-To: <002f01bfe08f$4aac3c50$7a28a8c0@wea.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com> from sipman at "Jun 27, 0 07:27:42 pm"
To: sipman@home.com (sipman)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:05:51 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
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sipman wrote:
> I am looking to put x based app on lart. Is there any info on Lcd (12" 15")
> prices/port . Basically the question is : Can i run gnome on lart and how or
> do i have to wait for the Sa1110 to get more power/memory.

Look in the mailing list archives, there were several discussions
about LCDs before, and also a couple of addresses where you can get
quotes.

Yes, you can run X on a LART, so I'm sure you can run GNOME. The
handhelds.org ramdisk should be enough to get you started.

Waiting for an SA1110 to get more power doesn't make any sense:
the SA1100 and the SA1110 are the same CPUs, the only difference
is the memory interface (EDO for SA1100, SDRAM for SA1110).
Once we have tested the memory expansion boards, you can very easily
expand the LART to 96 or 160 MB of memory.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 20:26:40 2000
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Subject: Blob-1.0.8-pre1 released
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:26:38 +0200 (CEST)
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
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Hi all,

As you all know, LART holidays tend to work out as work, so I hacked
together a new version of blob, the LART bootloader. Note that this is
a very preliminary version, it hasn't even been tested on a LART because
of lack of programming hardware.

The main new thing is that I integrated support for the Intel Assabet
(thanks to Jeff and Chester), and while I was hacking anyway, I also
included support for Brutus and PLEB. The support for the latter two
is very primitive: the configure script know about them, but there is
not much support in the code. Before you start hacking, read the
README file, because the configure script now wants to know about
your target board.
 
Please test this version on Assabet, Brutus and PLEB, because I don't
have access to this hardware. I won't be online for a week or so, so
I won't be able to respond to messages, but please do send me your
experiences, patches, etc (Jeff, Chester, Adam, Nico?). My plan is
to integrate the patches as soon as I'm back (and test it on the LART,
of course) and release blob-1.0.8 Real Soon Now.


Have fun,
Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 20:36:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:36:32 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:

> According to hexdump, it should be:
> 
> 00014c0 307c e59f 0003 e79a 027f eb00 3074 e59f
> 00014d0 0003 e79a 027c eb00 306c e59f 0003 e79a
> 00014e0 0279 eb00 3064 e59f 0003 e79a 0276 eb00
> 00014f0 305c e59f 0003 e79a 0273 eb00 3054 e59f
> 0001500 0003 e79a 0270 eb00 304c e59f 0003 e79a
> 0001510 026d eb00 3044 e59f 0003 e79a 026a eb00
> 0001520 303c e59f 0003 e79a 4400 e8bd 0266 ea00
> 0001530 2048 0000 00c4 0000 00c8 0000 00cc 0000
> 0001540 00d0 0000 00d4 0000 00d8 0000 00dc 0000
> 0001550 00e0 0000 00e4 0000 00e8 0000 00ec 0000


not after fetching it from 
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/
using netscape Communicator 4.7 under NT4, it's not. You might want to
serve it as a .gz or zip, save dullwitted netscape cocking up those
nasty binary transfers. 

00014c0 a0e9 9fa0 a0e5 9f30 0de5 a00a e08f 0003
00014d0 e79a 028b eb00 3094 e59f 0003 e79a 0288
00014e0 eb00 308c e59f 0003 e79a 0285 eb00 3084
00014f0 e59f 0003 e79a 0282 eb00 307c e59f 0003
0001500 e79a 027f eb00 3074 e59f 0003 e79a 027c
0001510 eb00 306c e59f 0003 e79a 0279 eb00 3064
0001520 e59f 0003 e79a 0276 eb00 305c e59f 0003
0001530 e79a 0273 eb00 3054 e59f 0003 e79a 0270
0001540 eb00 304c e59f 0003 e79a 026d eb00 3044
0001550 e59f 0003 e79a 026a eb00 303c e59f 0003

The version I've just pulled with Netscape under linux is the right
size. I'll give it a go.

Cheers, 

   Steve. 

(The logic analyser beckons, if this doesn't work though)
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:

> not after fetching it from 
> http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/
> using netscape Communicator 4.7 under NT4, it's not. You might want to
> serve it as a .gz or zip, save dullwitted netscape cocking up those
> nasty binary transfers. 

That's because it's done lf -> crlf conversion.  Duh.  If you convert them
back again, it'll fix it.

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 21:06:02 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:03:17 -0300
From: "Adilson G. Oliveira" 
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Hello folks!

I've been folowed LART progress quite often but I have a problem now. I
need to build anything *cheap* that can be used to run linux, a video
board and an IDE disk or flash memory. Do you have any ideas. I don't
need performance but I need to have the schematics and PCB to build some
units for non profit uses.

[]s and TIA

Adilson.

-- 
Quanto mais eu conheço a humanidade, mais eu gosto dos cães.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 22:10:57 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:11:11 +0100
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Programmer
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:08:55 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
To: Kira Brown 
References:


Kira Brown wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:
> 
> > not after fetching it from
> > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/
> > using netscape Communicator 4.7 under NT4, it's not. You might want to
> > serve it as a .gz or zip, save dullwitted netscape cocking up those
> > nasty binary transfers.
> 
> That's because it's done lf -> crlf conversion.  Duh.  If you convert them
> back again, it'll fix it.

Yes. Still, no need to complicate the lives of other Netscape / PC users
more than is strictly necessary, is there? This is meant to be a
cooperative, friendly project. "Duh" isn't particularly useful. 
My board is still playing silly buggers- seems to execute a fair amount
of code from the flash, but it's unclear quite what's going on, and
attaching the logic analyser to the high-speed connector is going to be
rather dull. I've got work-for-money to do, so it'll have to wait until
tomorrow. I now suspect hardware rather than software. It occurs to me
that I'm running CA silicon, rated for 160MHz - time to try to compile
blob, I reckon. (Freezer spray doesn't help - I don't know how
overclockable the CA parts are)
Ho hum, back to designing test gear... these Scenix micros are a bit of
a laugh...

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 22:27:56 2000
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From: "sipman" 
To: "Erik Mouw" 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Lcd & xfree86
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:27:38 -0400
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everything u always wanted to know but felt too shy to ask about lcd are at
http://www.eio.com/lcdintro.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Mouw 
To: sipman 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl 
Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Lcd & xfree86


>sipman wrote:
>> I am looking to put x based app on lart. Is there any info on Lcd (12"
15")
>> prices/port . Basically the question is : Can i run gnome on lart and how
or
>> do i have to wait for the Sa1110 to get more power/memory.
>
>Look in the mailing list archives, there were several discussions
>about LCDs before, and also a couple of addresses where you can get
>quotes.
>
>Yes, you can run X on a LART, so I'm sure you can run GNOME. The
>handhelds.org ramdisk should be enough to get you started.
>
>Waiting for an SA1110 to get more power doesn't make any sense:
>the SA1100 and the SA1110 are the same CPUs, the only difference
>is the memory interface (EDO for SA1100, SDRAM for SA1110).
>Once we have tested the memory expansion boards, you can very easily
>expand the LART to 96 or 160 MB of memory.
>
>
>Erik
>
>--
>J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
>of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
>Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The
Netherlands
>Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email:
J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
>WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 22:34:40 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:29:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Kira Brown 
To: Steve Wiseman 
Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: Re: Programmer
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:

> Kira Brown wrote:
> > > [netscape] nasty binary transfers.
> > 
> > That's because it's done lf -> crlf conversion.  Duh.  If you convert them
> > back again, it'll fix it.
> 
> Yes. Still, no need to complicate the lives of other Netscape / PC users
> more than is strictly necessary, is there? This is meant to be a
> cooperative, friendly project. "Duh" isn't particularly useful.

Er, sorry, it was meant as a comment on the quality of thinking involved
in Netscape, not as any form of insult on your mental abilities, Steve.
 
kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 23:25:37 2000
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>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: Programmer
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:08:55 +0100
>From: Steve Wiseman 
>To: Kira Brown 
>References:
>
>
>Kira Brown wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:
>>
>> > not after fetching it from
>> > http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/
>> > using netscape Communicator 4.7 under NT4, it's not. You might want to
>> > serve it as a .gz or zip, save dullwitted netscape cocking up those
>> > nasty binary transfers.
>>
>> That's because it's done lf -> crlf conversion.  Duh.  If you convert them
>> back again, it'll fix it.
>
>Yes. Still, no need to complicate the lives of other Netscape / PC users
>more than is strictly necessary, is there?

You're right. The long story is that Apache doesn't know which MIME-type to
set for the images, leaving it to the client to muck it up if it has text
as default. I've compressed both precompiled images; that should fix these
problems.

>My board is still playing silly buggers- seems to execute a fair amount
>of code from the flash, but it's unclear quite what's going on, and
>attaching the logic analyser to the high-speed connector is going to be
>rather dull. I've got work-for-money to do, so it'll have to wait until
>tomorrow. I now suspect hardware rather than software. It occurs to me
>that I'm running CA silicon, rated for 160MHz - time to try to compile
>blob, I reckon. (Freezer spray doesn't help - I don't know how
>overclockable the CA parts are)

I've no experience with CA chips, but it's likely you're right. Referring
to BLOB 1.0.7b, the first code BLOB has the processor execute is (from
src/start.S):

        /* Switch the SA-1100 to 220 MHz */
        mov     r1, #0x90000000
        add     r1, r1, #0x20000
        mov     r2, #0xB
        str     r2, [r1, #0x14]

...which may just be a bit much for the CA chip to handle.

If you feel like a quick hack you may want to do a binary patch; changing

[thorgal:bakker/LART 27] hexdump precompiled-blob-1.0.7b
0000000 0006 ea00 0293 ea00 0293 ea00 0293 ea00
0000010 0293 ea00 0293 ea00 0293 ea00 0293 ea00
#       mov r1    add r1    mov r2    str r1
0000020 1209 e3a0 1802 e281 200b e3a0 2014 e581
                                these ^^^^^^^^^ bytes

to 200b e3a0 ; thus turning the str into a NOP-like copy of the mov. The
DRAM will run slow, possibly without proper refresh; but it should get BLOB
far enough to announce itself through the serial port.

HTH,

JDB
[who notices it's been some time since he did manual disassembly on a
little endian processor]

--
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                     -- Arthur Kasspe


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 28 23:59:11 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:59:26 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Kira Brown wrote:

> Er, sorry, it was meant as a comment ...

Oops - minor misunderstanding there - it was probably the sleep
deprivation speaking- I'm generally a lot less grumpy :) 
(And I'm _sooo_ close to seeing "Consider yourself Larted"- just need to
get this test rig finished, & I'll be back on it). 

If anyone in/near the UK needs LCDs to play with, let me know, I've got
a couple of dozen 640*200 monos available, ideal shape & colour for car
dashboards, full data & casing available, too. 

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 29 11:32:37 2000
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:30:22 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
Subject: Programmer: I've been LARTed!
To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Message-id: <395B172E.588FD396@steves-house.org.uk>
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Wahey. It's a goer. Takes 25 seconds or so to erase, burn and verify the
blob image, which is acceptible. Component cost for the cable is:- 
25 way Male D-type 
8-pin jtag connector
3 off yellow led (3mm is good)
3 off 1K resistors
1 off 1N4148 Si diode
bits'o'wire. 

I run mine off the end of a 1.5? metre ribbon cable port extender, and
haven't yet had a problem. It also works on my laptop, but it's a big
laptop and power consumption probably wasn't a major design driver.
Wussy little portables will need testing. 

Thanks for the help, people. I'll tidy the source a little and post it,
but if anyone's really desparate, they can have it as is, just let me
know.

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 29 17:36:35 2000
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:52:13 -0400
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
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References: <200006281826.UAA12779@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> <395A4BF5.629C45E1@conectiva.com.br>
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"Adilson G. Oliveira" wrote:

> Hello folks!
>
> I've been folowed LART progress quite often but I have a problem now. I
> need to build anything *cheap* that can be used to run linux, a video
> board and an IDE disk or flash memory. Do you have any ideas. I don't
> need performance but I need to have the schematics and PCB to build some
> units for non profit uses.
>
> []s and TIA
>
> Adilson.

    If you are looking for something really cheap and simple, take a peek
at http://www.openhardware.net/ez328simm/.

    Cheers.

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 29 20:16:44 2000
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:36:54 -0400
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl
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To: "Adilson G. Oliveira" ,
        Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: LArt alternatives
References: <200006281826.UAA12779@kalman.et.tudelft.nl> <395A4BF5.629C45E1@conectiva.com.br> <395AC7ED.CDE7F266@embedded.cl> <395B8037.88693C55@conectiva.com.br>
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"Adilson G. Oliveira" wrote:

> Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
>
> >
> >     If you are looking for something really cheap and simple, take a peek
> > at http://www.openhardware.net/ez328simm/.
> >
>
> Hi again...
>
> Almost there but I need IDE and video output :-(

    Ok, ok. If you want something fast I recommend buying an evaluation kit
for a decent 32 bit processor with all what you need. If you want to DIY and
you know you can do it... I suggest to check out http://www.ata-atapi.com for
IDE/EIDE specs, it's a good starting point. There have been some efforts to
build simple PIC interfaces to video and disk drives, search the piclist
archives at http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/index.html. Also you can
find a lot of useful pointers in the sites of the wearables ring,
http://wearables.gatech.edu/webring.htm. In particular Stanford wearables lab
built the Matchbox PC that uses an AMD Élan CPU and has SVGA output and a 340
MB HD, http://wearables.stanford.edu/hardware.html (I don't know if you can
ask for the schematics now because they are going commercial: look at
http://www.tiqit.com/, maybe you can buy one of those). Some time ago Michel
Roks (m.roks@rena.nl) posted to the Linux-SH mailing list the schematic of a
reference platform ("Dahlia board") for the Hitachi SH-3 that uses an Epson
dual VGA interface (http://www.erd.epson.com/vdc/html/1356.html) for LCD/CRT
output. It looked easy to interface.

    Well, there are a lot of other embedded Linux solutions out there. Maybe
you can buy something cheap and useful from one of the manufacturers listed at
the Zentropix (now Lineo) site: http://www.zentropix.com/links/embedded.html.

    Cheers!

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 29 20:57:17 2000
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To: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LArt alternatives
Cc: "Adilson G. Oliveira" ,
        Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
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At 20:36 +0200 29-06-2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
>"Adilson G. Oliveira" wrote:
>
>> Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >     If you are looking for something really cheap and simple, take a peek
>> > at http://www.openhardware.net/ez328simm/.
>> >
>>
>> Hi again...
>>
>> Almost there but I need IDE and video output :-(
>
>    Ok, ok. If you want something fast I recommend buying an evaluation kit
>for a decent 32 bit processor with all what you need. If you want to DIY and
>you know you can do it...



Would you mind discussing the relative merits of these solutions wrt the
LART ? LART can do video and IDE, what's the advantage of those other
boards ?

JDB
[who doesn't claim that no board could be better than the LART, but this is
the LART-list after all]

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 03:32:19 2000
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:27:50 -0700
From: Wallace Owen 
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Subject: Linux memory footprint
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We're developing a StrongARM-based portable system that's application
specific - It'll just be running the OS and our modest app.  We're
trying to budget for both flash ROM and RAM on the device.  Does anyone
have any numbers on how much space the kernel, running in RAM, requires?

Our current development target is the LART, but our final device will
be battery-powered and we're constrained on board size.

I'm interested in values with out-of-the-box default kernel
configurations
for table sizes, etc. and, if anyone has optimized for space, what they
were able to get the footprint down to.


  // Wally
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 05:11:53 2000
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:10:58 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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I now have a fully assembled LART sitting in front of me, but I am still
trying to figure out the easiest way to program it. Assembly took me
about two hours with good tools, with one stop to test that I had
assembled the power supplies correctly before putting on the expensive
chips. I had to substitute for some of the parts, but I think everything
is in order.

As far as programming goes, I guess I will try and hack up an LED cable
as Steve has done and use a modified version of Nico's SA1110
programming stuff. I have 74AHCT541 buffers here, but only in TSSOP
packages which will be a pain to manually wire to. Reading the code in
the SA1110 stuff and looking at the mail archive, it seems like my cable
should look like this:

LPT pin 2 -> resistor+LED -> TCK
LPT pin 3 -> resistor+LED -> TDI
LPT pin 4 -> resistor+LED -> TMS
LPT pin 11 <- TDO

With some caps between all the lines and ground. Steve, what did you use
the 1N*** diode for? Also, what did you end up doing with nTRST?

Steve, if it is not too much trouble for you I would be very grateful if
you mailed me a copy of the modified SA1110 header and perhaps a copy of
the binary you used (windows or linux, whatever you have).

Thanks, hopefully I will soon be able to consider myself larted!

-Holly Gates
 Hardware Engineer
 E Ink Corp
 www.eink.com
 MIT 6.2 '99
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 05:28:12 2000
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Message-ID: <395C1899.5F76A509@embedded.cl>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:48:41 -0400
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:

> 
>
> Would you mind discussing the relative merits of these solutions wrt the
> LART ? LART can do video and IDE, what's the advantage of those other
> boards ?

    Hey, don't get me wrong. I suppose Adilson had already checked the KSB,
because he said he had been following the LART project. I only suggested pointers
of commercial boards and other simpler or *different* solutions, just because he
asked ;^)

>
> JDB
> [who doesn't claim that no board could be better than the LART, but this is
> the LART-list after all]

    PBK
    [who thinks that the LART rocks, but tries to be kind and helpful with people
who ask gently for other small Linux solutions] ;^)

    Cheers!

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 10:10:06 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:02:29 +0200
To: Holly Gates 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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At 05:10 +0200 30-06-2000, Holly Gates wrote:
>  I had to substitute for some of the parts,

Which ones ?

JD 'interested' B.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 10:25:27 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:24:51 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Holly Gates wrote:

> LPT pin 2 -> resistor+LED -> TCK
> LPT pin 3 -> resistor+LED -> TDI
> LPT pin 4 -> resistor+LED -> TMS
> LPT pin 11 <- TDO


Close. Here's a picture. Fixed width fonts are your friend...


LPTport --->---/\/\-----|-------|-->Jtag connector
                1K      |       | 
                       _|_     === 470pf
     LED (Yellow)      \ /      |
     (one per line)   __V__    _|_ JTAG & LPTPORT ground 
                        |
                        | <---tie all of these together
                       _|_
     1N4148            \ /
     (one per widget) __V__
                        |
      __________________|____________________ JTAG & LPTPORT ground
 
and TDO does go straight to the port, although I suspect a 33R resistor
in series would be a good thing. 

nTRST I tied on the PCB to nRESET (pin 2 of the MAX811). (I see no
downside to doing this on future versions of the LART - it's what I've
done on SA1100 designs before)

> Steve, if it is not too much trouble for you I would be very grateful if
> you mailed me a copy of the modified SA1110 header and perhaps a copy of
> the binary you used (windows or linux, whatever you have).

Incoming. I've not done the prettification, and only the linux version
is tested properly, so you'll get that. 

I don't know what the licensing deal is with SA1100jflash- there's no
copyright in the file I got from Nico. It's now changed a fair bit, but
it's still definitely a derived work...

Another concern I have is ESD- there's very little protection in this
scheme, so could people please take great care when using it - I'd hate
to see the number of LARTs go down not up...

Cheers, and enjoy!

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 10:52:44 2000
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From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 +0200 30-06-2000, Holly Gates wrote:
> >  I had to substitute for some of the parts,
> 
> Which ones ?
> 
> JD 'interested' B.


If we're playing that game, I'm running with a completely different
(linear) PSU, an external RS232 level shifter, a Max811 replacement from
Telcom, and the LVC157 is replaced with 4 solderblobs. I'm sure that
some of the stuff is available, I was just building mine out of stuff I
had at home, so a limited selection :( Still, seems to work nicely :)

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 16:07:10 2000
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From the orthogonal thinking department:

The Flash memory chips for the LART is difficult to come by and
because of the short supplies they can be costly.  How about including
a design variation in which the flash memory was replaced with a
CompactFlash device?  A small EPROM would be required.  The EPROM
would contain a program that has enough intelligence to access the IDE
interface and download the Blob code from the CompactFlash device.
This boot load program would open a file on the CompactFlash device
and read the kernel from that file.

There are a couple added benefit of this architecture.  Downloading a
new Blob can done by simply copying a file to a Compactflash device. 
No need for messy LED cables.  It should also be much faster than
serial line downloads.  The Compactflash devices come in sizes ranging 
from 16MB to 128MB.  The 16MB device was $59.00 in a recent catalog.
The memory not consumed by the kernel could be used as disk storage.

A Parallel port based device, like the one show at
http://www.sandisk.com/res/imagemate.htm, costs about $50.  A USB
based device costs about $40 and a PCMCIA card, shown at 
http://www.sandisk.com/res/pc.htm, costs about $13.  

The more costly, but larger flash would only be a good combination for
some applications, but the trade off of adding ~$40 to the price is
probably only an issue for high volume production.  In a research
environment the convenience of fast loading of a new Blob may help
justify the change.  

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 16:10:33 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:09:40 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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I used many 0603 parts in place of the 0805, since I design most of my
boards with that size and consequently the majority of my stock is in
0603. Different (bigger mostly) voltage and value on some of the bypass
caps. Micron DRAM, an IR part in place of the SOT23 Fairchild one,
different LED and a reset switch on board. I also used SMT inductors
from Coilcraft in place of the leaded ones, to reduce the profile of
that side of the board by one or two millimeters.

All in all though, I am actually pretty surprised at the high percentage
of parts that I could get. It seems like at any given time, 90% of
components in existence are impossible to get on any kind of reasonable
lead, which is incredibly annoying as I am sure many on this list know
first hand. I always end up designing boards around the parts I can
actually buy. One would think with this mindset among designers,
manufacturers would make it easier to get small quantities of parts in
order to increase their design wins. Maxim has an awesome sample
program, but there needs to be a great way of getting 10 or 100 parts
and not just one or two.

I am using the AF part, so I reduced Vcore to 1.5 using the resistors
listed on your schematics. Having the extra long pads on the SA chip was
really nice for soaking up extra solder.

-Holly


"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 +0200 30-06-2000, Holly Gates wrote:
> >  I had to substitute for some of the parts,
> 
> Which ones ?
> 
> JD 'interested' B.
> 
> --
> Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl
> 
> The lazy man's proverb:
>     'There's no business like slow business !'
> 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 16:14:27 2000
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From: "Sun, Lei" 
To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" 
Subject: linux on SA-1110
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:04:56 -0400
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Hi :
   I was trying to port linux to my SA-1110 board, I follow the instruction
from Intel website "Linux development on SA-1100 platform" and have create
kernel image and ram disk, however when I down load the kernel and ramdisk
into my target using Nicolas Pitre's angel boot and start minicom in my
host, I can't see nothing( I suppose the minicom should display log on infor
ans let me logon into my target). Up to this point, I couldn't find where is
the problem, I don't know if the kernel is correct not not since I can't see
error message from minicom. So Please give some hints or sugguestion, what
should I do to find the problem . 
   I appreciate you help!!

Thank you!
Regards

lei sun

Lei Sun

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 16:42:11 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:42:01 +0200
To: Michael McLay 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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At 18:10 +0200 30-06-2000, Michael McLay wrote:
>>From the orthogonal thinking department:
>
>The Flash memory chips for the LART is difficult to come by and
>because of the short supplies they can be costly.  How about including
>a design variation in which the flash memory was replaced with a
>CompactFlash device?



Something like this can easily be implemented on the LART using the low
speed connector. A daughterboard with a 16bit Flash (for the bootloader)
and buffers & a CF-connector could probably be done on a 2-layer PCB, with
mostly thru-hole components. Note also that the Ethernet PCB has a
footprint for a 64kx16 Flash. I intended to use this for netbooting.

JDB
[oh and my IPC/NIST design has a CF slot too]

--
In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing
left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
                   -- RFC 1925, "Fundamental Truths of Networking"


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 30 17:20:57 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:21:12 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
Subject: Re: Flash memory idea
To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
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Michael McLay wrote:

> The more costly, but larger flash would only be a good combination for
> some applications, but the trade off of adding ~$40 to the price is
> probably only an issue for high volume production.  In a research
> environment the convenience of fast loading of a new Blob may help
> justify the change.

Problem is, you still need to burn the original boot rom. BLOB's just a
bootloader, anyway- it doesn't need reloading, unless you're working on
it, and even then, 30 seconds isn't the end of the world. 
Replacing the Flash with something available would be v.handy, though. I
think that, if I was working on this, I'd be very tempted to try the
self refresh DRAMs, and pull power from most of the system, just keeping
the DRAM ticking over between uses. It wouldn't take a very big battery,
and would give all sorts of fast boot possibilities, even if you just
treated the bottom couple of megs of DRAM as fake ROM. Real boots could
then be as slow as you liked, from serial, compact flash, net, wherever.
The MMU ought to be able to keep the 'ROM' section of the DRAM safe from
rampaging code. 

Steve.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 00:57:01 2000
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: "LART List \(E-mail\)" 
Subject: BGA adaptors
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 00:56:05 +0200
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I just got a newsletter from one of my Danish distibutors with an update on
one of their agencies, E-tec. They have a range of BGA-sockets which could
be useful when you decide to try out the SA1110. From what I have read on
the list the BGA is the main reason why you haven't tried out the SA1110
(and time). Maybe this will help.

http://www.e-tec.ch/


Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 02:59:42 2000
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Message-ID: <39613BD9.AA516555@embedded.cl>
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 21:20:25 -0400
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl
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Nicolai Mahncke wrote:

> I just got a newsletter from one of my Danish distibutors with an update on
> one of their agencies, E-tec. They have a range of BGA-sockets which could
> be useful when you decide to try out the SA1110. From what I have read on
> the list the BGA is the main reason why you haven't tried out the SA1110
> (and time). Maybe this will help.
>
> http://www.e-tec.ch/
>
> Best regards
>
> Nicolai Mahncke
> mailto:nicolai@reipur.com

    Remember that both Intel's SA-1110 and SA-1111 come in a 256 grid
*micro-BGA* package. Normal 256-BGA packages have 0.3mm balls separated 1.27mm
minimum. Also, the pinout is not dense --there's a 12x12 grid desert zone at
the center of the package (20x20-12x12=256 ;^). Instead, the 256 grid mBGA
package is a _full_ 16x16 grid of 0.6mm balls (16x16=256 also ;^). Good
sockets and adapters for 256-BGA cost around US$50 in _large quantities_. I
don't even want to think of the price of a mBGA adapter, if there's one in the
market (haven't found anyone yet) -- I guess it's much cheaper to resolder a
bad soldered package than using an adapter.

    Checked out the site you suggested but 1.27mm was the minimum pitch of
their BGA sockets.

    Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 03:02:05 2000
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Message-ID: <39613D38.90DE4A5E@embedded.cl>
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 21:26:16 -0400
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
Organization: embedded^cl - http://www.embedded.cl
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Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:

>     Checked out the site you suggested but 1.27mm was the minimum pitch of
> their BGA sockets.

    Oops -- forgot to tell you that the ball separation in the mBGA is 1.0mm.

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 03:30:36 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:

>     Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?

	Please tell me your joking... Dave and I looked into this and
found the cheapest solution seemed to be to get a rework station with a
BGA tip that forms a reflow just around the BGA area. Some manufacturers
here use it for repairing BGA boards. Alternatively I've heard you can get
them put down fairly cheaply by themselves or with a fully assembled
board.

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 04:18:18 2000
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Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
>
> >     Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?
>
>         Please tell me your joking... Dave and I looked into this and
> found the cheapest solution seemed to be to get a rework station with a
> BGA tip that forms a reflow just around the BGA area. Some manufacturers
> here use it for repairing BGA boards. Alternatively I've heard you can get
> them put down fairly cheaply by themselves or with a fully assembled
> board.
>
>         Cheers Adam

    Not a joke... at least not yet. I was wondering if it is possible to put
a PCB in a kitchen oven. Then, as soon as you see that the solder paste
melts, you drop the component carefully over the land pattern. Having already
burst the microwave oven in my experiments as a kid, I doubt my mom is going
to let me use her oven for this. I saw a while ago some ovens that use quartz
bars to grill chicken, and they also have a fan to circulate the air inside.
They are pretty small, like a small microwave oven. Maybe when I have the
time I will buy one of those and make some tests with junk chips. I don't
know how the chips could be affected by this process --of course you can't
compete with an industrial solder station with this method, but if it works
then I could build prototypes easily and cheaply at home.

    BTW, I found that emulation.com now does mBGA adapters (but I couldn't
find a 16x16 mBGA,
http://www.emulation.com/catalog/off-the-shelf_solutions/sockets/test-burnin/microbga/).
Also there are some mBGA sockets at
http://www.contechsolutions.com/sockets.htm. And at Tessera there is
everything you always wished to know about CSP, uBGA or mBGA but were afraid
to ask: http://www.tessera.com/packaging/ubga.html (at
http://www.tessera.com/packaging/WAVE.html there's a guy with a big
semiconductor cookie --I thought that was a next generation chip ("MBGA -
Mega BGA") that would be much easier to solder, but I was wrong, each "pin"
is really a chip ;^)

    The 196-ball mBGA adapter from emulation.com costs 325 bucks *each*...
and you save 16.25 when you buy it by the net... wooooow!

    I'm to sarcastic at this time of the day... I really need to sleep.

    Cheers!


--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 05:00:37 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 12:58:55 +1000 (EST)
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:

> Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
> >
> > >     Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?
> >
> >         Please tell me your joking... Dave and I looked into this and
> > found the cheapest solution seemed to be to get a rework station with a
> > BGA tip that forms a reflow just around the BGA area. Some manufacturers
> > here use it for repairing BGA boards. Alternatively I've heard you can get
> > them put down fairly cheaply by themselves or with a fully assembled
> > board.
> >
> >         Cheers Adam
> 
>     Not a joke... at least not yet. I was wondering if it is possible to put
> a PCB in a kitchen oven. Then, as soon as you see that the solder paste
> melts, you drop the component carefully over the land pattern. Having already
> burst the microwave oven in my experiments as a kid, I doubt my mom is going
> to let me use her oven for this. I saw a while ago some ovens that use quartz
> bars to grill chicken, and they also have a fan to circulate the air inside.
> They are pretty small, like a small microwave oven. Maybe when I have the
> time I will buy one of those and make some tests with junk chips. I don't
> know how the chips could be affected by this process --of course you can't
> compete with an industrial solder station with this method, but if it works
> then I could build prototypes easily and cheaply at home.

	I seriously doubt this will work. Its not a case of wait for the
solder paste to melt then drop the chip on (not to mention how do you plan
to align the 1mm pitch balls?) BGA's like most surface mount devices need
to have a temperature profile followed. Look at Intel's web site for
details on this. It usually involved heating the board/chip to a pre-fluid
(solder wise) temperature then ramping up to the reflow temp for a very
specific time at specific ramping speeds. Now if you have a good oven then
you might be able to do this but what you want to do is have some
temperature sensors in there and you'll need to measure how fast the oven
can change the temp up/down. BGA's don't need solder paste either, it is
possible to do without which means a much cleaner fabrication. The major
issue with the ramping is not enough temp you get bad contacts, too much
temp and the solder balls on the BGA melt into a puddle. Now at $100 Aust
a chip do you really want to toy with that?
 > 
>     BTW, I found that emulation.com now does mBGA adapters (but I couldn't
> find a 16x16 mBGA,
> http://www.emulation.com/catalog/off-the-shelf_solutions/sockets/test-burnin/microbga/).
> Also there are some mBGA sockets at
> http://www.contechsolutions.com/sockets.htm. And at Tessera there is
> everything you always wished to know about CSP, uBGA or mBGA but were afraid
> to ask: http://www.tessera.com/packaging/ubga.html (at
> http://www.tessera.com/packaging/WAVE.html there's a guy with a big
> semiconductor cookie --I thought that was a next generation chip ("MBGA -
> Mega BGA") that would be much easier to solder, but I was wrong, each "pin"
> is really a chip ;^)
> 
>     The 196-ball mBGA adapter from emulation.com costs 325 bucks *each*...
> and you save 16.25 when you buy it by the net... wooooow!
> 
	They arn't cheap, or even small.

>     I'm to sarcastic at this time of the day... I really need to sleep.
> 
	:)
	
	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 05:12:19 2000
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From: Li Jun 
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Hi,

I downloaded Russel King's ArmLinux patches and Nicolas Pitre's
StrongARM Linux patches. I want to patch them. Would you please tell  me

how to do it?

Thanks a lot.



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 15:17:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 14:20:14 +0100 (BST)
From: Kira Brown 
To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
Cc: Pablo Bleyer Kocik ,
        Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: BGA adaptors
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> 	I seriously doubt this will work. Its not a case of wait for the
> solder paste to melt then drop the chip on (not to mention how do you plan
> to align the 1mm pitch balls?) BGA's like most surface mount devices need
> to have a temperature profile followed.

Indeed.  I've managed to solder some BGA packages (I was playing with an
old motherboard and I managed to remove and then reapply the North Bridge
:-)  using a paintstripping hot air gun and a piece of aluminium foil with
a square hole cut in it.

I'm not going to pretend that this is in any way reliable, though...

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 15:20:48 2000
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> 
> Indeed.  I've managed to solder some BGA packages (I was playing with an
> old motherboard and I managed to remove and then reapply the North Bridge
> :-)  using a paintstripping hot air gun and a piece of aluminium foil with
> a square hole cut in it.

	Did it work?

> 
> I'm not going to pretend that this is in any way reliable, though...

	Hehehe :) For prototyping maybe a few chips can go to silicon
heaven prematurely.

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 15:34:01 2000
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> > 
> > Indeed.  I've managed to solder some BGA packages (I was playing with an
> > old motherboard and I managed to remove and then reapply the North Bridge
> > :-)  using a paintstripping hot air gun and a piece of aluminium foil with
> > a square hole cut in it.
> 
> 	Did it work?

Yessum.  It made some nasty scorch marks on the board, though.  I think I
need to use more than one thickness of foil, and cut the hole more
accurately.  Preheating the board in an oven might be an idea, too, but
Rachel won't let me :-)

> 	Hehehe :) For prototyping maybe a few chips can go to silicon
> heaven prematurely.

They're still expensive, as you say.  I did this experiment on an old
Sock7 motherboard.

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 17:02:35 2000
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
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Subject: RE: BGA adaptors
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Sorry for posting while you were grumpy with sleep deprivation Pablo ;-)

Actually they do have a 1.00mm pitch, full 16x16 socket according to page 37
in
http://www.emc-vertriebs-gmbh.com/produkte/e-tec/icsockets/s37.pdf
combined with page 45 in
http://www.emc-vertriebs-gmbh.com/produkte/e-tec/icsockets/s39-46.pdf
They go all the way down to 0.75mm pitch in fact.

I'm getting a quote the solderless type now and will post the information as
soon as I have it. Can any of you tell me if the SA1110 is in Ceramic or
Plastic mBGA? E-tec requires this information as well as an actual physical
package before they will actually make the socket.


Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Pablo Bleyer Kocik
> Sent: 04 July, 2000 03:20
> To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal
> Subject: Re: BGA adaptors
>
>
> Nicolai Mahncke wrote:
>
> > I just got a newsletter from one of my Danish distibutors
> with an update on
> > one of their agencies, E-tec. They have a range of
> BGA-sockets which could
> > be useful when you decide to try out the SA1110. From what
> I have read on
> > the list the BGA is the main reason why you haven't tried
> out the SA1110
> > (and time). Maybe this will help.
> >
> > http://www.e-tec.ch/
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Nicolai Mahncke
> > mailto:nicolai@reipur.com
>
>     Remember that both Intel's SA-1110 and SA-1111 come in a 256 grid
> *micro-BGA* package. Normal 256-BGA packages have 0.3mm balls
> separated 1.27mm
> minimum. Also, the pinout is not dense --there's a 12x12 grid
> desert zone at
> the center of the package (20x20-12x12=256 ;^). Instead, the
> 256 grid mBGA
> package is a _full_ 16x16 grid of 0.6mm balls (16x16=256 also
> ;^). Good
> sockets and adapters for 256-BGA cost around US$50 in _large
> quantities_. I
> don't even want to think of the price of a mBGA adapter, if
> there's one in the
> market (haven't found anyone yet) -- I guess it's much
> cheaper to resolder a
> bad soldered package than using an adapter.
>
>     Checked out the site you suggested but 1.27mm was the
> minimum pitch of
> their BGA sockets.
>
>     Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?
>
> --
> Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
> pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
>       @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak
>
>
>
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 17:38:40 2000
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I think the package is the same as for the mBGA of the SA1100.  If so it
is plastic, I have 5 of the SA1100 in mBGA.

John Kocurek


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I think the package is the same as for the mBGA of the SA1100. 
If so it is plastic, I have 5 of the SA1100 in mBGA.

John Kocurek

 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 18:15:59 2000
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Nicolai Mahncke wrote:

> Sorry for posting while you were grumpy with sleep deprivation Pablo ;-)
>
> Actually they do have a 1.00mm pitch, full 16x16 socket according to page 37
> in
> http://www.emc-vertriebs-gmbh.com/produkte/e-tec/icsockets/s37.pdf
> combined with page 45 in
> http://www.emc-vertriebs-gmbh.com/produkte/e-tec/icsockets/s39-46.pdf
> They go all the way down to 0.75mm pitch in fact.

    Yep, I really needed to sleep... Sorry I missed them ;^)

> I'm getting a quote the solderless type now and will post the information as
> soon as I have it. Can any of you tell me if the SA1110 is in Ceramic or
> Plastic mBGA? E-tec requires this information as well as an actual physical
> package before they will actually make the socket.

    Hope they are cheap... at least cheaper than emulation.com!

> Best regards

    Cheers!

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
      @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 23:25:22 2000
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Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:31:25 +0100
From: Jeff Davies 
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Subject: Possibly of interest
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In the UK I've seen "Internet TVs" from a company called 'Bush' being
sold. It turns out both Bush
and Cable and Wireless are owned by a parent company called Alba.
Anyway, the Internet.TV consists of an ordinary TV  (£200)  [also
available as set top box for £100]
with a chip in it called the Cirrus Logic PS7500FE.  "System on a Chip".

The Cirrus Logic chip has inside it... you've guessed it - an Arm7
core, FPU,  modem 'interface' and Lan 'interface' (bus design for
connecting to Ether controller), Flash support, hardware codecs, and
LCD/CRT controller.

Apparently the Internet.TV has LAN interface, 56K modem, PS/2 Keyboard
and Mouse, CD Quality audio, Java Applets, 24 bit colour, audio/video
codecs.

I don't know what OS the above runs (or Java runtime, or Browser..).
Cirrus have a OS list of:   VxWorks?, pSOS?, VRTX?, RTXC?, Helios?, RISC
OS (Acorn)!!, EPOC32!!, OS/9!!, Teknema, ChorusOS (Sun java thing).

What a price!!
How easy to port LART Linux to this chip/system??
(pity no IDE interface huh?).

I've got BT ADSL line going in in near future. So I could wordprocess
etc from something like
this and get rid of all fan noise, bulk..

Jeff Davies
jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk
ps. Check out MPEG4 film at www.405themovie.com  !!!! 3 minute film in
7.5 meg.
Plug in Codec only for MS stuff tho. (I think)


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul  4 23:41:07 2000
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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 22:44:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Kira Brown 
To: Jeff Davies 
Cc: lart 
Subject: Re: Possibly of interest
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Jeff Davies wrote:

> The Cirrus Logic chip has inside it... you've guessed it - an Arm7
> core, FPU,  modem 'interface' and Lan 'interface' (bus design for
> connecting to Ether controller), Flash support, hardware codecs, and
> LCD/CRT controller.

It's an ARM7500FE, as used in Acorn and NetChannel's NCs, the Acorn A7000,
and a number of crap clones thereof.

Interesting that anyone's still messing about with it...

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 10:28:31 2000
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Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:34:48 +0100
From: Jeff Davies 
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Kira Brown wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Jeff Davies wrote:
>
> > The Cirrus Logic chip has inside it... you've guessed it - an Arm7
> > core, FPU,  modem 'interface' and Lan 'interface' (bus design for
> > connecting to Ether controller), Flash support, hardware codecs, and
> > LCD/CRT controller.
>
> It's an ARM7500FE, as used in Acorn and NetChannel's NCs, the Acorn A7000,
> and a number of crap clones thereof.
>

In what way were they crap?Did they all run the same software?

> Interesting that anyone's still messing about with it...
>
> kira.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

 Jeff Davies
jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 11:20:32 2000
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 05:58:40 +0100
From: Michel Luczak 
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Hello.
I discovered the lart project in a french paper (Login).
I'm about to build one, and I need some help.
Is there someone who built one and wants to help me step-by-step ?
The first question is:
How do you put the OS into the flash EEPROM ?
->Will I need a special programmer or is it all on the motherboard ?
->Has someone working Gerbers for KSB and Quad ethernet ?

I don't want to flood the list so if someone wants to help, i'll stay in
direct email contact.
(notice that I'm ready to build more than one lart :
the first will serve as a handheld computer
second as a web server
and so on...
)
Best regards to all you Lart People, Michel Luczak.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Michel Luczak ( mluczak@april.org ) from ArtistiC systems
  phone : (+33)6677 666 31             Making art virtual since Y2K
    << The future won't come to you, come and see the future >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
         see you soon on http://mlucz.free.fr/
                         http://www.epdl.fr.st/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 11:28:05 2000
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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:31:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Kira Brown 
To: Jeff Davies 
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Subject: Re: Possibly of interest
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Jeff Davies wrote:

> Kira Brown wrote:
> 
> > It's an ARM7500FE, as used in Acorn and NetChannel's NCs, the Acorn A7000,
> > and a number of crap clones thereof.
> 
> In what way were they crap?Did they all run the same software?

They all ran variants on Acorn's RISC OS, though it should be possible to
run ARMLinux or NetBSD on them.  They're a bit long in the tooth now,
though.

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 11:53:29 2000
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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At 06:58 +0200 27-02-2000, Michel Luczak wrote:
>How do you put the OS into the flash EEPROM ?
>->Will I need a special programmer or is it all on the motherboard ?

There's a JTAG programmer develoiped by Steve Wiseman that was discussed
just last week. See the list archive for details.

>->Has someone working Gerbers for KSB and Quad ethernet ?

We have Gerbers (obviously); we're still testing them. See the FAQ.

HTH,

JDB.

--
Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers.


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 12:17:51 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: engp7829@leonis.nus.edu.sg
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: help with patch
In-Reply-To: <3961570C.FCA5E71@leonis.nus.edu.sg>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 05 Jul 2000 12:17:44 +0100 (MDT)
X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L
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On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 11:16:29 +0800, Li Jun wrote:
> I downloaded Russel King's ArmLinux patches and Nicolas Pitre's
> StrongARM Linux patches. I want to patch them. Would you please tell  me
> how to do it?

Warning: steep learning curve ahead!

You obviously just started with kernel hacking, so there are a lot of
things which can go wrong. The way to use the patches with a default
kernel is:

  tar zxf linux-2.4.0-test2.tar.gz
  cd linux
  gzip -dc ../patch-2.4.0-test2-ac1.gz | patch -p1
  gzip -dc ../patch-2.4.0-test2-ac1-rmk1.gz | patch -p1
  gzip -dc ../diff-2.4.0-test2-ac1-rmk1-np1.gz | patch -p1

The patches must be applied in the correct order, or things will fail. Use
the "--dry-run" option with patch to see if the patch will work.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 12:42:04 2000
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Message-ID: <39631ECB.654C125E@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 12:40:59 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:

> There's a JTAG programmer develoiped by Steve Wiseman that was discussed
> just last week.

Anyone tried it yet? 
I'm sort of tempted to have some PCBs fabbed for the faint-hearted,
although the assembly of the LED cable is pretty easy. Any takers? 

Next task is to get blob happy to boot from one flash, to reduce the
drain on my tiny stock... Not this week, though. 

> --
> Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers.

Big enough speakers, and you can climb in the bass ports for shelter :)

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 13:04:53 2000
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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 13:04:35 +0200
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At 13:40 +0200 05-07-2000, Steve Wiseman wrote:
>"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
>
>> There's a JTAG programmer develoiped by Steve Wiseman that was discussed
>> just last week.
>
>Anyone tried it yet?
>I'm sort of tempted to have some PCBs fabbed for the faint-hearted,
>although the assembly of the LED cable is pretty easy. Any takers?

If I had the source I'd be happy to try it and put it up on the LART site
(with proper credits, of course).

>Next task is to get blob happy to boot from one flash, to reduce the
>drain on my tiny stock... Not this week, though.

You may have to cut and patch a bit then. In a one-flash config A1 needs to
be wired up.

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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Hello again.
Has someone a source to get a PCB to build a LART ?
If not, I'll have to pay $500 to make make one board in France (need to
make the films, and so on...).
Other solution is if I find 10 or more people to buy one, then the costs
may become affordable.
regards.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 18:20:15 2000
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From: "Shdwdrgn" 
To: "Linux Advanced Radio Terminal" 
References:  <39614E49.F2CB9B51@embedded.cl>
Subject: Re: BGA adaptors
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:18:31 -0600
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I've used the oven to REMOVE parts from a pcb, and it worked fairly well...
I set the oven at 400° and waited.  It actually took around 15 minutes for
the board to heat up enough to be able to dump the parts off, and even then
only about half of them fell off.  I used a cookie sheet to protect the
board from the direct blast of heat, and used metal standoffs to keep the
board off of the cookie sheet.  With such a slow warm-up period, you
shouldn't have to worry about over-heating the chips, but it seemed to me
that the board was not being heated evenly, which would account for not all
of the components coming off at once.

Just my .02 worth, but it MAY be possible...


----- Original Message -----
From: Pablo Bleyer Kocik 
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: BGA adaptors


> Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 3 Jul 2000, Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:
> >
> > >     Grrrr... has anyone tried reflowing chips in your kitchen's oven?
> >
> >         Please tell me your joking... Dave and I looked into this and
> > found the cheapest solution seemed to be to get a rework station with a
> > BGA tip that forms a reflow just around the BGA area. Some manufacturers
> > here use it for repairing BGA boards. Alternatively I've heard you can
get
> > them put down fairly cheaply by themselves or with a fully assembled
> > board.
> >
> >         Cheers Adam
>
>     Not a joke... at least not yet. I was wondering if it is possible to
put
> a PCB in a kitchen oven. Then, as soon as you see that the solder paste
> melts, you drop the component carefully over the land pattern. Having
already
> burst the microwave oven in my experiments as a kid, I doubt my mom is
going
> to let me use her oven for this. I saw a while ago some ovens that use
quartz
> bars to grill chicken, and they also have a fan to circulate the air
inside.
> They are pretty small, like a small microwave oven. Maybe when I have the
> time I will buy one of those and make some tests with junk chips. I don't
> know how the chips could be affected by this process --of course you can't
> compete with an industrial solder station with this method, but if it
works
> then I could build prototypes easily and cheaply at home.
>
>     BTW, I found that emulation.com now does mBGA adapters (but I couldn't
> find a 16x16 mBGA,
>
http://www.emulation.com/catalog/off-the-shelf_solutions/sockets/test-burnin
/microbga/).
> Also there are some mBGA sockets at
> http://www.contechsolutions.com/sockets.htm. And at Tessera there is
> everything you always wished to know about CSP, uBGA or mBGA but were
afraid
> to ask: http://www.tessera.com/packaging/ubga.html (at
> http://www.tessera.com/packaging/WAVE.html there's a guy with a big
> semiconductor cookie --I thought that was a next generation chip ("MBGA -
> Mega BGA") that would be much easier to solder, but I was wrong, each
"pin"
> is really a chip ;^)
>
>     The 196-ball mBGA adapter from emulation.com costs 325 bucks *each*...
> and you save 16.25 when you buy it by the net... wooooow!
>
>     I'm to sarcastic at this time of the day... I really need to sleep.
>
>     Cheers!
>
>
> --
> Pablo Bleyer Kocik |"I believed that people would become programmers
> pbleyer            | and not need companies as much. You can see how
>       @embedded.cl | laughable that was." -- Steve Wozniak
>
>
>
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 19:16:58 2000
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Michel Luczak wrote:
> 
> Hello again.
> Has someone a source to get a PCB to build a LART ?

I've got two or three spares from the batch I bought from Greg Fountain.
I'll sell them for what I paid, if you're interested. When they're gon,
they're gone...

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 20:16:45 2000
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hi
i'm french too, and i'd like to know where you want to buy the pcb.  but the
offer is interesting... mail please for more details! (i'm student in an
electronic great school where i can make pcb but not for the moment 6 layers
one... *sigh*)


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 20:17:47 2000
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hi
i'm french too, and i'd like to know where you want to buy the pcb.  but the
offer is interesting... mail please for more details! (i'm student in an
electronic great school where i can make pcb but not for the moment 6 layers
one... *sigh*)


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul  5 21:24:16 2000
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------Original Message------
From: Steve Wiseman
To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl"
Sent: July 5, 2000 6:17:08 PM GMT
Subject: Re: PCB


Michel Luczak wrote:
>
> Hello again.
> Has someone a source to get a PCB to build a LART ?

I've got two or three spares from the batch I bought from Greg Fountain.
I'll sell them for what I paid, if you're interested. When they're gon,
they're gone...

Steve
--



what is the rev of the pcb? how much do you want for it? in all the cases
i'm interested if you can sent 1 of it to france ('cause i'm really
interested in the project and want to improve the board) and if there are
are not to much postal charges...
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul  6 18:52:21 2000
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Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:50:45 -0500
From: "Jin Chen (ra7594)" 
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>
>
>                    I've got two or three spares from the batch I
bought from Greg Fountain.
>                    I'll sell them for what I paid, if you're
interested. When they're gon,
>                    they're gone...

>                    Steve


I work for Motorola Austin, Texas.  I would like to buy two+ PCB board.
Please
let me know whether you have any more left. Price is not an issue.
I can mail
cash to you if it can speed up the process.

If any one can spare more Rev 3 PCBs, I will like have them too.

Thanks.

Jin

P.S. Steve, What is your email address?

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    *   *                         MOTOROLA                                  |
|   *** ***                        Semiconductor Products Sector             |
|  *   *   *                       Wireless Subscriber Division              |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Jin Chen                       | PHONE: 512-895-6793                       |
| Digital Radio System Operation | FAX:   512-895-3877                       |
| 6501 William Cannon Drive West | PAGER: 800-SKYTEL2, pin #1381008          |
| LOC: TX30   MD: OE314          |        or by email 1381008@SkyTel.com     |
| Austin, TX 78735-8598          | EMAIL: jinchen@dsp.sps.mot.com            |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul  7 02:47:45 2000
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Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: PCB wanted by Independent Developer
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I don't work for a large company but I would like
to build an open source lart.
Thanks
galabad@yahoo.com


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul  7 20:34:34 2000
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:33:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aaron Toney 
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	So if people are still interested in adaptors for the SA1110 and
SA1111 I just got a quote back for parts. These are the adaptors that
Intel is using with their reference design for the SA1110/1111.

	I am looking at putting together an order for some of these parts.
The price break in quantity is pretty go so if people are interested I
could buy extra and sell them to the list.

MM P/N S599-11-256-08-007428             
20 pcs @ $ 72.789 ea.
50 pcs @ $ 45.796 ea.
100 pcs @ $ 35.731 ea.
200 pcs @ $ 30.126 ea.
6000 pcs @ $ 22.760 ea.

MM P/N S599-10-256-08-007429             
20 pcs @ $ 65.365 ea.
50 pcs @ $ 38.882 ea.
100 pcs @ $ 29.380 ea.
200 pcs @ $ 24.289 ea.
6000 pcs @ $ 18.126 ea.

Lead time: 5 wks ARO
Part are Non Cancelable, non returnable



Aaron Toney,
Circus Systems  (206) 297-9015

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul  7 21:12:07 2000
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:02:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: RE: BGA adaptors
To: joeboy@hhhh.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>	So if people are still interested in adaptors for the SA1110 and
>SA1111 I just got a quote back for parts. These are the adaptors that
>Intel is using with their reference design for the SA1110/1111.

Do these adaptors attach to the PCB with pins (through-hole)?
I was looking at some adaptors from another company that looked like they were 
BGA mount also.  Kind of defeated the whole point in us using an adaptor in the 
first place.

Barry

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul  7 23:20:31 2000
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Message-ID: <001501bfe858$c7c86b70$824c45a1@na.nai.com>
From: "Erik Chow" 
To: 
Subject: Anymore Rev 3 of PCB available?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:17:07 -0400
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Hi,
  I need one Rev 3 PCB.  Does anyone have an extra one?  Thanks.

Erik Chow
echow@wam.umd.edu

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jul  8 00:13:31 2000
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Message-ID: <396655BB.AB64B58C@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:12:11 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: LART PCBs - time for a batch in Europe?
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Hi, all. 
  I was rather swamped with requests for LART PCBs - all well and good, but I've
only got three to spare. It seems that there may be the incentive to build
another batch of __BARE__ boards. That's __BARE__ with __NO COMPONENTS__. I do
not have the components or time to supply stuffed boards. 
In order to get the price down, I'll be burning a favour with my PCB supplier
(who I use for commercial work, and occasionally does a low cost, slow
turnaround batch for my personal projects), so I do not want to mess him around
with loads of quantity changes. I'd like indication of people and the number
they'd be interested in. This won't be binding, I'll just use the numbers to get
a quote for the boards. Please contact me even if you have already done so.
Cheers.

I'll also be building another SA1100 based board in a month or so. It's not
going to ba a LART, as I have a different set of requirements, not least some
FPGA resource and flash I can buy, so I may be up for selling my 2 populated
LARTs. These have silicon, but not all of the connectors. 

Steve

(I _will_ get round to tidying and releasing the jtag code this weekend - it's
been a busy week, I'm afraid)
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jul  8 03:16:08 2000
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From: "Joel L. Kraai" 
To: 
References: <001501bfe858$c7c86b70$824c45a1@na.nai.com> <396655BB.AB64B58C@steves-house.org.uk>
Subject: Re: LART PCBs - time for a batch in Europe?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:15:29 -0600
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Steve, I'm in the US and new to LART, but I am looking for 3 bare PCBs.  (If
anyone in the US has any for sale, I'd appreciate a note.)  The extra cost
of shipping won't bother me.

Thanks
Joel


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Wiseman" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:12 PM
Subject: LART PCBs - time for a batch in Europe?


> Hi, all.
>   I was rather swamped with requests for LART PCBs - all well and good,
but I've
> only got three to spare. It seems that there may be the incentive to build
> another batch of __BARE__ boards. That's __BARE__ with __NO COMPONENTS__.
I do
> not have the components or time to supply stuffed boards.
> In order to get the price down, I'll be burning a favour with my PCB
supplier
> (who I use for commercial work, and occasionally does a low cost, slow
> turnaround batch for my personal projects), so I do not want to mess him
around
> with loads of quantity changes. I'd like indication of people and the
number
> they'd be interested in. This won't be binding, I'll just use the numbers
to get
> a quote for the boards. Please contact me even if you have already done
so.
> Cheers.
>
> I'll also be building another SA1100 based board in a month or so. It's
not
> going to ba a LART, as I have a different set of requirements, not least
some
> FPGA resource and flash I can buy, so I may be up for selling my 2
populated
> LARTs. These have silicon, but not all of the connectors.
>
> Steve
>
> (I _will_ get round to tidying and releasing the jtag code this weekend -
it's
> been a busy week, I'm afraid)
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 10 12:54:21 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:45:54 +1000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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Subject: Memory Board
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Hello,

I was just wondering when the memory expansion board was going to be released ? 
There was talk of it being able ot bring the LART up to 160mb of ram or something 
close...



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 13:40:39 2000
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I was just wondering if there was ever going to be a redevelopment around the 
StrongARM 1110 chip, after all, it supports all the old stuff, and SDRAM ! Heaps more 
ram to play with!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 14:02:46 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Memory Board
In-Reply-To: 
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Tue 11 Jul 2000 14:02:34 +0100 (MDT)
X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:45:54 +1000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
> I was just wondering when the memory expansion board was going to be released ?

http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3#7

(and we're currently at step #4)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 17:25:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: Quote for 15 PCB's
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I plan on paying for fabrication of 3 lart boards.
If anyone wants to add to this order to reduce the
cost please email me. If we get to 15 orders it will
be $93US/board. Here is the price quote:
Specs: 6 layer, 2 silk screens, 2 solder masks, routed
to shape.  Each 
layer
checked for shorts and breaks under high power optical
review.  Each 
board
tested power to ground.
Quantity 2: $931, Qty 5: $1,152, Qty 10: $ 1,259, Qty
15: 1,388.
Shipment: 5 days after approval.  Faster service is
available, I have 
just
quoted standard turn as you have not mentioned time
requirements.

Recommended Option:  Full net list electric test to
include custom 
fixture:
$295 plus $5.00 per board.  Please add 2 days for net
list electric 
test.


galabad@yahoo.com


__________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 18:02:00 2000
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Message-ID: <396B44A5.6F0A48E4@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:00:37 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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Subject: Re: Quote for 15 PCB's
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j j wrote:
> 
> I plan on paying for fabrication of 3 lart boards.
> If anyone wants to add to this order to reduce the
> cost please email me. If we get to 15 orders it will
> be $93US/board. Here is the price quote:
> Specs: 6 layer, 2 silk screens, 2 solder masks, routed

I've got tentative requests for 15 boards - I'll get a quote for fabbing
in England, and we'll combine the orders?

Steve
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 19:27:20 2000
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From: "O'Donnell, Joseph" 
To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl.'" 
Subject: RE:Quote for 15 PCB's
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:21:03 -0400
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Sounds cool to me.
Thanks,
Joe


j j wrote:
> 
> I plan on paying for fabrication of 3 lart boards.
> If anyone wants to add to this order to reduce the
> cost please email me. If we get to 15 orders it will
> be $93US/board. Here is the price quote:
> Specs: 6 layer, 2 silk screens, 2 solder masks, routed

I've got tentative requests for 15 boards - I'll get a quote for fabbing
in England, and we'll combine the orders?

Steve	


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	Hi;

	Another dumb question:

	Can one run Xfree86 4.0 on a sa1110 at 16 bits of color depth? POinters
towards information sources on teh subject will be greatly appreciated.

	Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 11 23:04:28 2000
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Message-ID: <007901bfeb6a$cf3c9ce0$2e7777de@eadsmobile>
From: "Eads Sun" 
To: , "Arm-Linux" ,
        
Subject: Again, Help on Initrd for CL-PE7212
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 03:04:12 +0800
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Platform: CL-EP7212, Redhat 6.2, bootloader for SA1100 & CL-EP7211
Project: porting arm-linux to CL-EP7212


Hi,

Really i want to know how can i create a initrd.gz, which should download
with the kernel image in order to boot the development board.


The arm-linx kernel image for CL-EP7212, i have made it based on the
following kernel and patch:

"VERSION = 2
PATCHLEVEL = 2
SUBLEVEL = 1
EXTRAVERSION = -rmk2"  ----from the main Makefile

it seems healthy.

i have been downloaded it via the bootloader, unfortunately, the board
couldn't boot up because of without the initrd.

A initrd.gz sample, i got from
ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/user/b/benw/initrd.gz 35393 bytes

however, it couldn't work with the arm-inux kernel image before.

Well, i wonder how i can create the initrd.gz step by step.


it's welcom for any other info about porting linux on CL-EP7212, thanks.



Best Regards

Eads Sun

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 12 00:00:42 2000
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Subject: Re: X-server on Sa1110
In-Reply-To: <396B7C30.43D95204@montage.ca> from Chris Price at "Jul 11, 0 01:57:36 pm"
To: chris.price@montage.ca (Chris Price)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:00:38 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
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Chris Price wrote:
> 	Another dumb question:
> 
> 	Can one run Xfree86 4.0 on a sa1110 at 16 bits of color depth? POinters
> towards information sources on teh subject will be greatly appreciated.

I think yes, but you'll need the latest CVS version of XFree86. Jim Gettys
was hacking on it when I visited Compaq CRL, and IIRC there was some rumour
on the handhelds mailing list about this issue. Have a look at the handhelds
or linux-handhelds mailing list archive at http://www.handhelds.org/ . If you
can't find the answer over there, ask it on the handhelds mailing list, both
Jim Gettys and Keith Packard are active members on that list and if they don't
know the answer I wouldn't know who would... ;-)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 12 04:14:38 2000
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To: Eads Sun 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, Arm-Linux ,
        linux-7110@redhat.com
Subject: Re: Again, Help on Initrd for CL-PE7212
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Please don't cross post your mail,and look at linux/Document/ramdisk.txt
first.
You will got what you want.



On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Eads Sun wrote:

> 
> Platform: CL-EP7212, Redhat 6.2, bootloader for SA1100 & CL-EP7211
> Project: porting arm-linux to CL-EP7212
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Really i want to know how can i create a initrd.gz, which should download
> with the kernel image in order to boot the development board.
> 
> 
> The arm-linx kernel image for CL-EP7212, i have made it based on the
> following kernel and patch:
> 
> "VERSION = 2
> PATCHLEVEL = 2
> SUBLEVEL = 1
> EXTRAVERSION = -rmk2"  ----from the main Makefile
> 
> it seems healthy.
> 
> i have been downloaded it via the bootloader, unfortunately, the board
> couldn't boot up because of without the initrd.
> 
> A initrd.gz sample, i got from
> ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/user/b/benw/initrd.gz 35393 bytes
> 
> however, it couldn't work with the arm-inux kernel image before.
> 
> Well, i wonder how i can create the initrd.gz step by step.
> 
> 
> it's welcom for any other info about porting linux on CL-EP7212, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Eads Sun
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 12 13:19:26 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:22:29 -0400
From: Hugues Belanger 
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Help with user space apps.

I've notice from the LART Ramdisk page that someone has already crosscomplide
busybox & Tinylogin, can that person send the process used to do this, since I
can't seem to get it right.


Thanks

Hugues Belanger

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 12 14:24:19 2000
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> Help with user space apps.
>
> I've notice from the LART Ramdisk page that someone has already crosscompiled
> busybox & Tinylogin, can that person send the process used to do this, since I
> can't seem to get it right.
>
> Thanks
>
> Hugues Belanger
>
>

--------------0D1D5F454B24EB8C47A223F3
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Help with user space apps.

I've notice from the LART Ramdisk page that someone has already crosscompiled

busybox & Tinylogin, can that person send the process used to do
this, since I

can't seem to get it right.

Thanks

Hugues Belanger

 

 



--------------0D1D5F454B24EB8C47A223F3--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 12 16:29:12 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: hbelange@cgocable.net
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Help with user space apps
In-Reply-To: <396C54F4.85B31BB9@cgocable.net>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 12 Jul 2000 16:27:02 +0100 (MDT)
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On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:22:29 -0400, Hugues Belanger wrote:
> I've notice from the LART Ramdisk page that someone has already crosscomplide
> busybox & Tinylogin, can that person send the process used to do this, since I
> can't seem to get it right.

This should do the trick (with tcsh):

  setenv CC arm-linux-gcc
  ./configure [lots of funny options] arm-unknown-linux-gnu
  make

If it also needs ar, ld or objcopy (I can't remember), set the proper
environment variable accordingly (i.e.: setenv AR arm-linux-ar).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 14:52:05 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: [Linux] Skiff Cluster (fwd)
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Thu 13 Jul 2000 14:52:02 +0100 (MDT)
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From the linux-handhelds mailing list, FYI.
(StrongARM == armv4l)


Erik


--- Forwarded mail from George France (france@crl.dec.com) on Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:19:42 -0400:
Since is very difficult to cross compile some applications for the ARM v4l
architecture. I have made two (2) Compaq Personal Servers (Skiffs) available
for native compiling ARM v4l applications. These Skiffs compile RPMs
extremely well. You can use either ftp or rcp for the transfer of files.
WARNING: The Skiffs are research prototypes that are not very polished but
work very well.  If you should cause the unit to hang or have some other
problem, please e-mail linux@handhelds.org. We will be happy to reset the
machines.

The machines are:
   skiffcluster1.handhelds.org
   skiffcluster2.handhelds.org

The username is:
     guest

The password is:
      

rlogin and telnet should both work.

Currently available is:
     gcc
     g++
     g77
     perl5

If other tools are need, I will be more than happy to try to install them.


Please be courteous when using these machines, as they have limited
resources. When you login you may want to check to see if someone else is
doing a heavy compile before you start. When you are done with a project
please remove your files. 

Have fun,

--George

George France,      france@crl.dec.com
Cambridge Research Laboratory, Compaq Computer Corporation
One Cambridgecenter    MS: CRL
Cambridge, MA 02142 USA


_______________________________________________
Linux mailing list
Linux@handhelds.org
http://handhelds.org/mailman/listinfo/linux

--- End of forwarded mail from George France (france@crl.dec.com) on Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:19:42 -0400

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 15:48:51 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:48:41 +1000 (EST)
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Subject: Intgerfacing an ADC
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	Hi all, I've got a project where we need to interface a 500Khz ADC
to the SA1100. I've got two questions one related to the hardware design
and one to linux. It seems the best way to interface it is to connect the
device in parallel using one of the SRAM banks. With a 500Khz sampling
rate we have 1000 cycles (with a 200Mhz part) between each sample to
process it. The quesition is how much of that time (no of cycles) will be
required to trap the interrupt and read the 12bit sample into a memory
location and would it be better/possible to map the interrupt to the FIQ
line?
	The hardware question is can anyone suggest an alternate ADC, the
requirements are 500KHz sampling with 8 channels multiplexed.
Substitutions like 250KHz with 4 channels multiplexed are also suitable.
It would be preferable to get something using one of the SA-1100's high
speed serial ports to make use of a DMA channel. 
	The project is for sampling frog and possibly bird calls in the 
wild, I beleive about 40HKz or more is needed per channel. Any other
comments/suggestions welcome :) Once sampled the signal if filtered and
then put through a machine learning system to identify the species of the 
animal.

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 16:45:24 2000
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: 
Subject: RE: Intgerfacing an ADC
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:44:23 +0200
Message-ID: <000a01bfecd8$d6a6a600$371a10ac@reipur.com>
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How about a LT1278-5 500ksps 12bit ADC with a LTC1391 8 chan MUX connected
to Serial Port 4 in SPI mode?
Don't know much about how the DMA/interrupts work but you should be able to
set it up to shift out the next channel to the MUX while reading the
conversion from the current channel from the ADC.


Best regards
Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins
> Sent: 13 July, 2000 15:49
> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject: Intgerfacing an ADC
>
>
> 	Hi all, I've got a project where we need to interface a
> 500Khz ADC
> to the SA1100. I've got two questions one related to the
> hardware design
> and one to linux. It seems the best way to interface it is to
> connect the
> device in parallel using one of the SRAM banks. With a 500Khz sampling
> rate we have 1000 cycles (with a 200Mhz part) between each sample to
> process it. The quesition is how much of that time (no of
> cycles) will be
> required to trap the interrupt and read the 12bit sample into a memory
> location and would it be better/possible to map the interrupt
> to the FIQ
> line?
> 	The hardware question is can anyone suggest an
> alternate ADC, the
> requirements are 500KHz sampling with 8 channels multiplexed.
> Substitutions like 250KHz with 4 channels multiplexed are
> also suitable.
> It would be preferable to get something using one of the
> SA-1100's high
> speed serial ports to make use of a DMA channel.
> 	The project is for sampling frog and possibly bird calls in the
> wild, I beleive about 40HKz or more is needed per channel. Any other
> comments/suggestions welcome :) Once sampled the signal if
> filtered and
> then put through a machine learning system to identify the
> species of the
> animal.
>
> 	Cheers Adam
>
> --
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> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 17:50:23 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:48:41 -0500
From: "Jin Chen (ra7594)" 
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--------------2FA518DF378E853FE8E6F09D
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HI Guys

Please count me in for 2 boards and let me know your processing time
frame.
Thanks a million!

Jin Chen



--------------2FA518DF378E853FE8E6F09D
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HI Guys

Please count me in for 2 boards and let me know your processing time
frame.
Thanks a million!

Jin Chen

 

--------------2FA518DF378E853FE8E6F09D--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 18:52:34 2000
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See subject line.


Erik
erikchow@hotmail.com

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See subject line.


 


 


Erik


erikchow@hotmail.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 19:43:49 2000
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Reply-To: 
From: "Rick Schneeman" 
To: "Nicolai Mahncke" , 
Subject: RE: Intgerfacing an ADC
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:44:29 -0700
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We struggled with this question as well. If the maximum serial clock rate
(SCR) of the synchronous serial port 4 is 1.8432 Mbps, then I don't think
its going to handle 500 ksps of 12 bit ADC data in SPI mode. We are
interfacing 16 bit ADC LT components using the parallel memory bus access
method that was alluded to in the original post.

-Rick


Rick Schneeman, Computer Scientist
US Department of Commerce
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Drive, Mail Stop 8220
Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899-8220 USA
Tel: 301-975-4352 Fax: 301-990-3851
rschneeman@nist.gov 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Nicolai Mahncke
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 7:44 AM
> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject: RE: Intgerfacing an ADC
>
>
> How about a LT1278-5 500ksps 12bit ADC with a LTC1391 8 chan MUX connected
> to Serial Port 4 in SPI mode?
> Don't know much about how the DMA/interrupts work but you should
> be able to
> set it up to shift out the next channel to the MUX while reading the
> conversion from the current channel from the ADC.
>
>
> Best regards
> Nicolai Mahncke
> mailto:nicolai@reipur.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> > Behalf Of Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins
> > Sent: 13 July, 2000 15:49
> > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Subject: Intgerfacing an ADC
> >
> >
> > 	Hi all, I've got a project where we need to interface a
> > 500Khz ADC
> > to the SA1100. I've got two questions one related to the
> > hardware design
> > and one to linux. It seems the best way to interface it is to
> > connect the
> > device in parallel using one of the SRAM banks. With a 500Khz sampling
> > rate we have 1000 cycles (with a 200Mhz part) between each sample to
> > process it. The quesition is how much of that time (no of
> > cycles) will be
> > required to trap the interrupt and read the 12bit sample into a memory
> > location and would it be better/possible to map the interrupt
> > to the FIQ
> > line?
> > 	The hardware question is can anyone suggest an
> > alternate ADC, the
> > requirements are 500KHz sampling with 8 channels multiplexed.
> > Substitutions like 250KHz with 4 channels multiplexed are
> > also suitable.
> > It would be preferable to get something using one of the
> > SA-1100's high
> > speed serial ports to make use of a DMA channel.
> > 	The project is for sampling frog and possibly bird calls in the
> > wild, I beleive about 40HKz or more is needed per channel. Any other
> > comments/suggestions welcome :) Once sampled the signal if
> > filtered and
> > then put through a machine learning system to identify the
> > species of the
> > animal.
> >
> > 	Cheers Adam
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> >
>
> --
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>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 22:37:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: PCB Orders
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Im compiling a list of orders which I will send in
when we reach 15 boards to a US company. Jin Chen and
Erik Chow bring us to 8. The cost of a board for 15
total orders will be $93US not including shipping. If
anyone would like to order please email me. If Steve
is ready to send in his order before we reach 15 we
can just go with his.

Joe O'Donnell
galabad@yahoo.com


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 13 23:07:15 2000
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Subject: Re: Intgerfacing an ADC
To: rschneeman@nist.gov, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:08:25 +0200 (CEST)
In-Reply-To:  from "Rick Schneeman" at Jul 13, 2000 10:44:29 AM
From: Andrew Tuckey 
Reply-to: tuckey@ieee.org
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> We struggled with this question as well. If the maximum serial clock rate
> (SCR) of the synchronous serial port 4 is 1.8432 Mbps, then I don't think
> its going to handle 500 ksps of 12 bit ADC data in SPI mode. We are
> interfacing 16 bit ADC LT components using the parallel memory bus access
> method that was alluded to in the original post.
> 
> -Rick

Can you post some of the details - I'm facing the same problem, but with a
couple of C40s. 

-- 
Andrew Tuckey, Visiting Lecturer
Electrical and Computer Engineering Department
University of Wisconsin - Madison
1415 Engineering Drive
Madison, WI  53706-1691

Email: tuckey@ieee.org
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 00:24:17 2000
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j j wrote:

> Im compiling a list of orders which I will send in
> when we reach 15 boards to a US company. Jin Chen and
> Erik Chow bring us to 8. The cost of a board for 15
> total orders will be $93US not including shipping. If
> anyone would like to order please email me. If Steve
> is ready to send in his order before we reach 15 we
> can just go with his.
>
> Joe O'Donnell
> galabad@yahoo.com
>

Please excuse me if I'm not quite up to speed...  These are for
unassembled rev 4 boards right?

What ever happened to the project to be able to order them assembled?
This is what I was interested in.  Doug Moreen are you still out there?
Was it you that was putting that together?

--
Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 12:48:21 2000
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I am wondering how hard it would be to load a OS like NetBSD instead of Linux, or any 
other OS capable of being run on the SA1100 CPU.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 13:18:02 2000
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To: TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au
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Subject: Re: Other OS's
In-Reply-To: 
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Fri 14 Jul 2000 13:17:51 +0100 (MDT)
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:48:29 +1000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
> I am wondering how hard it would be to load a OS like NetBSD instead of Linux,
> or any 
> other OS capable of being run on the SA1100 CPU.

You can run any OS you like on the LART, but you have to modify the
bootloader (blob) or use another bootloader. I think NetBSD is quite easy
to do, allthough I didn't have a look at it.


Erik

-- 
"people are still using Win98? Wow... VMS i could understand, but WinXX -
that's just so passe..." -- Paul Jakma on linux-kernel



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I am interested in connecting a CCD Camera to the LART/StrongARM chip, anybody 
got any ideas?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 16:31:03 2000
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Maybe it could be done using USB?
Michal.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Donohoe" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 2:34 PM
Subject: CCD to SA


> I am interested in connecting a CCD Camera to the LART/StrongARM chip,
anybody
> got any ideas?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Matt
> TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 16:46:05 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:44:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: PCB orders
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Thats correct:
Unassembled rev 4 boards for $93US (not including
shipping) which will be produced as soon as there are
at least 15 orders. Please email me if your
interested.
Joe O'Donnell
galabad@yahoo.com


j j wrote:

> Im compiling a list of orders which I will send in
> when we reach 15 boards to a US company. Jin Chen
and
> Erik Chow bring us to 8. The cost of a board for 15
> total orders will be $93US not including shipping.
If
> anyone would like to order please email me. If Steve
> is ready to send in his order before we reach 15 we
> can just go with his.
>
> Joe O'Donnell
> galabad@yahoo.com
>

Please excuse me if I'm not quite up to speed... 
These are for
unassembled rev 4 boards right?

What ever happened to the project to be able to order
them assembled?
This is what I was interested in.  Doug Moreen are you
still out there?
Was it you that was putting that together?

--
Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks



__________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 17:27:34 2000
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From: "Erik Chow" 
To: "LART" 
References: <20000714144431.13059.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PCB orders
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:25:52 -0400
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I thought this run was for Rev 3 boards.  Can someone please clear this up
for me?  Is this run for Rev 3 or Rev 4 boards?  I didn't know that the
gerber files for Rev 4 are out.  Thanks.

Erik

----- Original Message -----
From: "j j" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 10:44 AM
Subject: PCB orders


>
> Thats correct:
> Unassembled rev 4 boards for $93US (not including
> shipping) which will be produced as soon as there are
> at least 15 orders. Please email me if your
> interested.
> Joe O'Donnell
> galabad@yahoo.com
>
>
> j j wrote:
>
> > Im compiling a list of orders which I will send in
> > when we reach 15 boards to a US company. Jin Chen
> and
> > Erik Chow bring us to 8. The cost of a board for 15
> > total orders will be $93US not including shipping.
> If
> > anyone would like to order please email me. If Steve
> > is ready to send in his order before we reach 15 we
> > can just go with his.
> >
> > Joe O'Donnell
> > galabad@yahoo.com
> >
>
> Please excuse me if I'm not quite up to speed...
> These are for
> unassembled rev 4 boards right?
>
> What ever happened to the project to be able to order
> them assembled?
> This is what I was interested in.  Doug Moreen are you
> still out there?
> Was it you that was putting that together?
>
> --
> Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
> varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 18:39:01 2000
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From: "Douglas Moreen" 
To: varek@saltspring.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: PCB Orders
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:37:42 MDT
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Varek, and all the other Lart People
I'm still lurking in the background, have a good manufacture to do this but 
am
still waiting for the Gerber rev 4 files. When this is done, we'll fire up 
the
foundry and get them to whomever is interested in them. The plan is to have 
all
the parts installed, have the boot code loaded and to have tested the boards
tested enough to be sure that they are functioning.

to the lart.tudelft.nl people:
Please, Please, can I have my Gerber?




>From: Varek 
>To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
>Subject: Re: PCB Orders
>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:22:52 -0700
>
>j j wrote:
>
> > Im compiling a list of orders which I will send in
> > when we reach 15 boards to a US company. Jin Chen and
> > Erik Chow bring us to 8. The cost of a board for 15
> > total orders will be $93US not including shipping. If
> > anyone would like to order please email me. If Steve
> > is ready to send in his order before we reach 15 we
> > can just go with his.
> >
> > Joe O'Donnell
> > galabad@yahoo.com
> >
>
>Please excuse me if I'm not quite up to speed...  These are for
>unassembled rev 4 boards right?
>
>What ever happened to the project to be able to order them assembled?
>This is what I was interested in.  Doug Moreen are you still out there?
>Was it you that was putting that together?
>
>--
>Varek Boettcher                 "Ack, ack ack ack ack"
>varek@saltspring.com                   - Mars Attacks
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 19:53:00 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, sa1100@pa.dec.com
Subject: Blob-1.0.8-pre2 released
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Fri 14 Jul 2000 19:52:57 +0100 (MDT)
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Hi all,

I just released blob-1.0.8-pre2, the SA-11x0 bootloader. This version
contains an RTC fix from Mark Huang, and Assabet fixes from Justin Seger.

In contrast with the previous release, this one is actually tested on the
LART (it works). It should work on the Assabet, too; Justin's version also
did. There is some initial support in blob for Brutus and PLEB, but that's
not yet tested (I don't have such boards).

Get blob at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/

Please download and test this version.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 14 19:55:38 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: echow@wam.umd.edu
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: PCB orders
In-Reply-To: <001b01bfeda7$cc1542d0$824c45a1@na.nai.com>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Fri 14 Jul 2000 19:55:34 +0100 (MDT)
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:25:52 -0400, Erik Chow wrote:
> I thought this run was for Rev 3 boards.  Can someone please clear this up
> for me?  Is this run for Rev 3 or Rev 4 boards?  I didn't know that the
> gerber files for Rev 4 are out.  Thanks.

It's rev 3. We haven't yet released rev 4 board schematics due to holidays
and lack of components.


Erik

-- 
Jul 14 19:55:32 linux kernel: lp0 printer error
Jul 14 19:55:32 linux kernel: lp0 on fire
  -- Linux kernel log



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jul 15 10:41:00 2000
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From: "Gennadiy M. Kurtsman" 
To: 
Subject: Linux and SA-1100's FIQ
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:03:21 +0400
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Hello,
I've tried to program ICLR register of interrupt controller of SA-1100
(revision G) so that level 11 interrupt was routed to CPU FIQ interrupt
input. Then after interrupt pending Linux became dead (hung up without any
reaction). When I don't touch ICLR register all work well. Am I wrong or it
is defect of Linux or SA-1100? Any hint will be greatly appreciated.
Gena Kurtsman.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 17 20:41:30 2000
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Subject: Re: Linux and SA-1100's FIQ
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:03:21 +0400, Gennadiy M. Kurtsman wrote:
> I've tried to program ICLR register of interrupt controller of SA-1100
> (revision G) so that level 11 interrupt was routed to CPU FIQ interrupt
> input. Then after interrupt pending Linux became dead (hung up without any
> reaction). When I don't touch ICLR register all work well. Am I wrong or it
> is defect of Linux or SA-1100? Any hint will be greatly appreciated.

You'd better ask this on the sa1100-linux or linux-arm-kernel mailing
list, there are more knowledgeable people over there. See the
documentation page on the LART site for information on the lists.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 17 21:04:00 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:59:56 -0700
From: Wallace Owen 
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Has anyone ported eCOS to LART?


  // Wally
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 17 23:00:51 2000
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Subject: Anybody got fab'd boards to sell in the UK?
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I want one lart , ethernet , and ksb

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 18 15:53:31 2000
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From: "Lawson, Rick" 
To: lart 
Subject: RE: Anybody got fab'd boards to sell in the UK?
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:10:02 +0100
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Me too.

I'm sure there must be enough of us in the UK who just don't have access to
the right equipment but do want to get involved in the application of the
boards.


Rick Lawson    |    BSD    |    Napp Pharmaceutical Group



		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Gav Reid [mailto:gav@silmaril.co.uk]
		Sent:	17 July 2000 21:51
		To:	lart
		Subject:	Anybody got fab'd boards to sell in the UK?


		I want one lart , ethernet , and ksb

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 18 23:41:32 2000
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From: Wallace Owen 
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Help!

I posted the message below back at the end of June, but got no
response from _anyone_.  I'm now being told that I'm running
out of time to yield up a number for the amount of memory space
required by a minimal Linux kernel, and that we're going to have
to use Windows CE because it'll fit our target device with a
small enough footprint.

Our memory on the target is 2, maybe 3 megabytes.  In this space
we have to run the Linux kernel and our modest application.

Can anyone tell me what files in the Linux kernel have data
declarations whose dimensions can be safely reduced?  My efforts
at producing a small kernel have got the code segment down below
half a meg, but the data segment is 1.5 megabytes.

I'm also looking at the possibility of using eCOS, the RTMX from
Cygnus (RedHat), but to make this work I'd need to graft a file
system to it.  If anyone has experiences with adding a file system
to eCOS or another RTMX, info would be appreciated.


  // Wally

> Subject: Linux memory footprint
> Date:    Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:27:50 -0700
> From:    Wallace Owen 
> To:      handhelds@handhelds.org
> CC:      Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
> 
> We're developing a StrongARM-based portable system that's application
> specific - It'll just be running the OS and our modest app.  We're
> trying to budget for both flash ROM and RAM on the device.  Does anyone
> have any numbers on how much space the kernel, running in RAM, requires?
> 
> Our current development target is the LART, but our final device will
> be battery-powered and we're constrained on board size.
> 
> I'm interested in values with out-of-the-box default kernel
> configurations for table sizes, etc. and, if anyone has optimized
> for space, what they were able to get the footprint down to.
> 
>
>   // Wally
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 19 00:00:25 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nicolas Pitre 
To: Wallace Owen 
cc: handhelds@handhelds.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Wallace Owen wrote:

> Help!
> 
> I posted the message below back at the end of June, but got no
> response from _anyone_.  I'm now being told that I'm running
> out of time to yield up a number for the amount of memory space
> required by a minimal Linux kernel, and that we're going to have
> to use Windows CE because it'll fit our target device with a
> small enough footprint.
> 
> Our memory on the target is 2, maybe 3 megabytes.  In this space
> we have to run the Linux kernel and our modest application.

Last year, I was working on a product called Victor
(http://www.visuaide.com/victor.en.html).  It actually runs Linux 2.2.12
in 4 megs of RAM and 2 megs of Flash.  The application could still run
when I told the kernel there was only 2 megs of ram as long as it wasn't
playing back CDDA audio data from the CD.  Playback of MP3 from the CD
wasn't a problem with only 2 megs of ram but the extra buffering
capability with 4 megs was handy for a portable unit.

It should give you some figures.


Nicolas

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From: Mike Touloumtzis 
To: Wallace Owen 
Cc: handhelds@handhelds.org, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: [Handhelds] Linux may be abandoned for WinCE here.
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On Tue, Jul 18, 2000 at 02:37:18PM -0700, Wallace Owen wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell me what files in the Linux kernel have data
> declarations whose dimensions can be safely reduced?  My efforts
> at producing a small kernel have got the code segment down below
> half a meg, but the data segment is 1.5 megabytes.
> 

Wallace,

Check out the uCLinux project (Linux on Dragonball/Coldfire).  In addition
to M68K stuff and MMU-less adaptations, their patch contains various
things that reduce memory usage (shrinking the size of the printk buffer,
that sort of thing).  I think they even used a different #ifdef for them.

miket

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 19 08:53:21 2000
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Subject: Re: [Handhelds] Linux may be abandoned for WinCE here.
From: lars brinkhoff 
Date: 19 Jul 2000 08:52:02 +0200
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The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy as well.

*** I'd be very interested in hearing about work done by others ***
*** to reduce the size of Linux.  I already know about Graham   ***
*** Stoney's CONFIG_MESSAGES and dead function optimisation     ***
*** patches.                                                    ***

Wallace Owen wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what files in the Linux kernel have data
> declarations whose dimensions can be safely reduced?  My efforts
> at producing a small kernel have got the code segment down below
> half a meg, but the data segment is 1.5 megabytes.

I started a port of Linux 2.3.99 to our MIPS R3000-ish device (IDT
RC32064, really).  This device usually has 2M flash and 4M RAM.

To reduce the size of the text and data sections, I sorted the output
of the "size" command and investigated the files with the largest
sections.

These are the memory-saving changes I arrived at.  They are not really
tested, so some of them may break some functionality.

fs/dcache.c

        Changed HASH_BITS from 14 to 8.  This reduces the size of the
        cache from 128K to 2K.

fs/inode.c

        Changed HASH_BITS from 14 to 8.  This reduces the size of the
        cache from 128K to 2K.

include/linux/blk.h

        Changed NR_REQUEST from 256 to 16.  This reduces the number of
        requests that can be queued.  The size of the queue is reduce
        from 16K to 1K.

include/linux/major.h

        Changed MAX_BLKDEV and MAX_CHRDEV from 256 to 10 and 20,
        respectively.  This reduces the number of block and character
        devices and saves about 40K.

kernel/printk.c

        Changed LOG_BUF_LEN from 16384 bytes to 2048 bytes.

include/linux/tty.h

        Changed NR_PTYS and NR_LDISCS from 256 and 16, respectively,
        to 16 and 4, respectively.  Saved about 12K.

        Warning: this change may break the pty driver, in which
        case further modifications will have to be done to
        drivers/char/pty.c.

kernel/panic.c

        Changed a buffer from 1024 bytes to 200 bytes.

include/linux/sched.h

        Changed PIDHASH_SZ from 1024 to 16, which saves
        1008 bytes.

arch/mips/kernel/entry.S

        (Has 21184 bytes of data which might be trimmed?)

include/linux/mmzone.h

        NR_GPFINDEX from 0x100 to 0x10.  Saves 4800 bytes,
        but I'm not sure it doesn't break anything.

net/Makefile, net/socket.c, net/nosocket.c

        Replacing socket.c with nosocket.c, a file containing
        dummy replacement functions for those in socket.c, saves
        about 24K.

        Warning: this disables the socket API entirely, but it
        is currently not used in our product.

net/Makefile, net/network.a, net/core

        Excluding net/core/core.o from net/network.a doesn't save
        anything.  I guess core.o isn't referenced by anything
        in the rest of the kernel (except maybe socket.c, see
        above).

mm/Makefile, mm/swapfile.c, mm/swap_state.c, mm/noswapfile.c, mm/noswap_state.c

        Replacing swapfile.c with noswapfile.c, and swap_state.c with
        noswap_state.c saves about 12K.  The no*.c files contains empty
        replacement functions.

        Warning: this disables swapping of anonymous memory, which isn't
        used in our product.  But note that demand paging of executables
        still works.

mm/Makefile, mm/mmap.c

        The functions in mmap.c could probably also be replaced by
        empty functions.  Estimated saving: 9K (not included in the
        grand total below).

*, CONFIG_MESSAGES

        Applying the CONFIG_MESSAGES patch and disabling all
        kernel messages saves about 80K.

        The CONFIG_MESSAGES patch was written by Graham Stoney
        .

With all of the above, and only this enabled in .config:
        CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL=y
        CONFIG_CPU_R3000=y
        CONFIG_CPU_LITTLE_ENDIAN=y
        CONFIG_ELF_KERNEL=y
        CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF=y
        CONFIG_MODULES=y
        CONFIG_MODVERSIONS=y
        CONFIG_KMOD=y
        CONFIG_CROSSCOMPILE=y
, the kernel is down to about 550K.

Here is the output of "size vmlinux".  I think this is without the
CONFIG_MESSAGES patch (it was many months since I worked with this).

text    data    bss     dec     hex     filename
572128  41964   15860   629952  99cc0   vmlinux
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jul 19 13:03:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:01:57 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: Re: PCB orders - UK fab too damn expensive :(
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Here's the quote for blank Rev 3 boards. That's about 100USD per
board. 
I suspect the US pricing is better, and delivery will be quicker. 
Sorry guys, but I can't compete. You'll need to talk to 
galabad@yahoo.com . 
(The 24-up pricing is arther better, but I don't think we're going to
get there, and the US price almost certainly drops the same amount)


MINIMUM 12 OFF CCTS IN 15 WORKING DAYS @ £750 LOT
MINIMUM 24 OFF CCTS IN 15 WORKING DAYS @ £1050 LOT
PRICE INCLUDES TOOLING /PLOTTING & BBT
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jul 23 20:23:02 2000
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unsubscribe


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 05:17:36 2000
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From: "Mahldcat" 
To: 
Subject: crazy idea.....wonder if it would be possible?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:24:56 -0700
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I was just wondering if anyone knew if it might be possible to hack a mac
color classic (mainly for the CRT), and for a housing for the lart...Reason
I'm asking is I have a classic sitting in my closet gathering dust, and I
was thinking this might be one way to customize it and breathe a bit more
life back in to the thing....As I'm not much of a hacker or engineer, I was
just throwing this in to the list serv as an idea to banter around.....

Arthur Strutzenberg

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 06:26:39 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:25:54 -0400
From: Agarwal 
Subject: FFT lib info & LARTproduction
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Hi guys,

    JDB, are you still working on that FFT library you were working on? If
so, what is its current status?

    Also, are there still plans for producing some LART for selling? Any
news from Greg Fountain?

    Thanks in advance!

    Simon Labrecque

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 10:56:40 2000
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From: "???" 
To: "Lart" 
Subject: How to patch...
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:56:32 +0900
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Hi there..
I'm trying to make Linux-2.3.99 with patch for Intel Strong-Arm( SA-1110).

So I got patch files ( patch-2.3.99-rmk3.gz ,diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2.gz ), but I don't know how to patch them.
Please Inform me. :-)

Regards.
James.

P.S) does anybody know where is news group for poring Linux?
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 15:40:36 2000
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 06:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
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Im gathering names for a group order for rev 3 lart
PCB boards. We are up to 9 and will order when we have
15. $93 US per board. Fabricated in US. Email me to be
included.
Thanks,
Joe O'Donnell
galabad@yahoo.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 16:01:38 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: How to patch...
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Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Mon 24 Jul 2000 16:01:24 +0100 (MDT)
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:56:32 +0900, ??? wrote:
> I'm trying to make Linux-2.3.99 with patch for Intel Strong-Arm( SA-1110).
> 
> So I got patch files ( patch-2.3.99-rmk3.gz ,diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2.gz ),
> but I don't know how to patch them.
> Please Inform me. :-)

It's in the README file in each kernel release. It's basically:

  cd whatever/linux-2.3.99/
  gzip -dc patch-2.3.99-rmk3.gz | patch -p1
  gzip -dc patch diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2 | patch -p1

> P.S) does anybody know where is news group for poring Linux?

See "Mailing lists" on the LART documentation page:
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/doc.php3 . For SA-11x0, you want to subscribe
to linux-arm, linux-arm-kernel, and sa1100-linux.


Erik

-- 
I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 16:09:47 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: mahldcat@hotmail.com
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: crazy idea.....wonder if it would be possible?
In-Reply-To: <000301bff5e7$e81c9120$1e480a18@c736932-b.potlnd1.or.home.com>
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Date: Mon 24 Jul 2000 16:09:39 +0100 (MDT)
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:24:56 -0700, Mahldcat wrote:
> I was just wondering if anyone knew if it might be possible to hack a mac
> color classic (mainly for the CRT), and for a housing for the lart...Reason
> I'm asking is I have a classic sitting in my closet gathering dust, and I
> was thinking this might be one way to customize it and breathe a bit more
> life back in to the thing....As I'm not much of a hacker or engineer, I was
> just throwing this in to the list serv as an idea to banter around.....

Depends on the Mac CRT. If there is somewhere a point on the CRT board
where you can insert standard RGB+sync signals, you can drive it with a
LART+KSB+video board (the last one is still under development, but it's a
documented Digital/Intel hack). The rest is trivial: throw out the
mainboard, put in a LART and hook it up to power supply and CRT. Of course
the triviality of the problem depends on your experience... 


Erik

-- 
In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they 
are different -- Larry McVoy



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 24 18:58:10 2000
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:56:37 +0800
From: Dennis Soong 
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I got my rev-3 PCB back last week. ( US$162 for tooling setup, US$1.94
per piece for a 20 piece quantity) I think I can give out 3 pieces to
people on the list for free. But I don't want the hassle for handling
the shipping. So I only give out to those who can come to Taipei to take
it.
Note: Don't ask me for it if you can not get it by yourself. I will not
make money from this so please don't ask me for buying it.

My phone number: +886-932-143902
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 25 11:23:59 2000
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:03:39 +0530
From: "M.N.Shukla" 
Reply-To: mnshukla@cirrus.stpp.soft.net
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Hi,
I am using gcc for ArmLinux obtained from following site:

arm-linux-cross.tar.bz2  from
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ (LARTware Compiler
tools)

I was cross compiling h323 for ARM, I modified following makefiles of
pwlib:
lib.mak, and unix.mak. I am also using -s -static flag.
I am able to cross compile all the files of pwlib but while linking I am

getting following error:

../../ptclib/pasn.cxx: In method `class PString
PASNObjectID::GetString() const':
../../ptclib/pasn.cxx:881: warning: long unsigned int format,
P_PDWORDArray_PTemplate_Base_Type arg (arg 3)
/usr/lib/bison.simple: In function `PTime_yyparse':
/usr/lib/bison.simple:361: warning: implicit declaration of function
`free'
collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
make[1]: ***
[/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so.1.1.15] Error 1
collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
make[2]: ***
[/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so.1.1.15] Error 1
make[1]: *** [/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so]
Error 2
make: *** [both] Error 2
I also tried -fwritable-strings options for c files and -fno-gnu-linker
options for g++ files.
Any clue / suggestion .......

Thanks in advance...
M.N.Shukla

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jul 25 13:23:18 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
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Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Querry:
In-Reply-To: <397D5EF3.D533DF3A@cirrus.stpp.soft.net>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Tue 25 Jul 2000 13:22:46 +0100 (MDT)
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:03:39 +0530, M.N.Shukla wrote:
> I am using gcc for ArmLinux obtained from following site:
> 
> arm-linux-cross.tar.bz2  from
> http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ (LARTware Compiler
> tools)
> 
> I was cross compiling h323 for ARM, I modified following makefiles of
> pwlib:
> lib.mak, and unix.mak. I am also using -s -static flag.

Ouch! The package doesn't use GNU autoconf, so cross compiling can be a
real PITA, unless you know what you're doing.

> I am able to cross compile all the files of pwlib but while linking I am
> 
> getting following error:
> 
> ../../ptclib/pasn.cxx: In method `class PString
> PASNObjectID::GetString() const':
> ../../ptclib/pasn.cxx:881: warning: long unsigned int format,
> P_PDWORDArray_PTemplate_Base_Type arg (arg 3)
> /usr/lib/bison.simple: In function `PTime_yyparse':
> /usr/lib/bison.simple:361: warning: implicit declaration of function
> `free'

The warnings are because gcc-2.95.2 follows the latest C++ standards,
which are stricter than the older. If you have been using gcc-2.7.2.x or
gcc-2.8.1, you might see a lot of those warnings.

> collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
> make[1]: ***

Hmm, you're using bison, so you're probably also using flex. Flex comes
with its own library, libfl.a. I think that you're trying to mix arm-linux
objects with i386-linux objects, so the linker tries to link the
i386-linux /usr/lib/libfl.a with the other objects.

> [/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so.1.1.15] Error 1
> collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
> make[2]: ***
> [/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so.1.1.15] Error 1
> make[1]: *** [/home/mns/armh323/pwlib/lib/libpt_linux_arm7tdmi_r.so]
> Error 2
> make: *** [both] Error 2
> I also tried -fwritable-strings options for c files and -fno-gnu-linker
> options for g++ files.

-fno-gnu-linker is useless on linux platforms because linux _always_ uses
the GNU linker, there is simply no alternative.

> Any clue / suggestion .......

Use he "-v" flag for the compile and link stage so you will see what tools
the compiler driver uses and with which options. If you're indeed mixing
i386 and ARM objects, you first have to cross compile bison and flex,
which is as simple as:

  setenv CC arm-linux-gcc
  ./configure --prefix=/home/mns/gnu arm-unknown-linux-gnu
  make
  make install

After that, edit the Makefiles for h323 and recompile everything.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 27 12:09:25 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:47:47 +0530
From: "M.N.Shukla" 
Reply-To: mnshukla 
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Hi,
I am using gcc and g++ for ArmLinux obtained from
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/

I am getting error message Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
this object file format (1). Complete error message is as :

h323.cxx: In method `void H323Connection::SendUserInput(const PString
&)':
h323.cxx:2106: warning: choosing `PASN_Choice::operator
PASN_GeneralString &()' over `PASN_Choice::operator const
PASN_GeneralString &() const'
h323.cxx:2106: warning:   for conversion from `H245_UserInputIndication'
to `const PASN_GeneralString &'
h323.cxx:2106: warning:   because conversion sequence for the argument
is better
rtp.cxx: In function `class ostream & operator <<(ostream &,
RTP_DataFrame::PayloadTypes)':
rtp.cxx:272: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
/tmp/ccuo1CHH.s: Assembler messages:
/tmp/ccuo1CHH.s:88: Error: Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
this object file format (1)
/tmp/ccuo1CHH.s:90: Error: Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
this object file format (1)
make[1]: ***
[/home/mns/armh323/openh323/lib/obj_linux_arm7tdmi_r/code.o] Error 1
make: *** [optnoshared] Error 2

Any clue/suggestion...........

Thanks in advance.
M.N.Shukla

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 27 13:30:55 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: mnshukla@cirrus.stpp.soft.net
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Subject: Re: Querry:
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Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Thu 27 Jul 2000 13:29:24 +0100 (MDT)
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On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:47:47 +0530, M.N.Shukla wrote:
> I am getting error message Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
> this object file format (1). Complete error message is as :
> 
> h323.cxx: In method `void H323Connection::SendUserInput(const PString
> &)':
> h323.cxx:2106: warning: choosing `PASN_Choice::operator
> PASN_GeneralString &()' over `PASN_Choice::operator const
> PASN_GeneralString &() const'
> h323.cxx:2106: warning:   for conversion from `H245_UserInputIndication'
> to `const PASN_GeneralString &'
> h323.cxx:2106: warning:   because conversion sequence for the argument
> is better
> rtp.cxx: In function `class ostream & operator <<(ostream &,
> RTP_DataFrame::PayloadTypes)':
> rtp.cxx:272: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
> /tmp/ccuo1CHH.s: Assembler messages:
> /tmp/ccuo1CHH.s:88: Error: Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
> this object file format (1)
> /tmp/ccuo1CHH.s:90: Error: Can not represent OFFSET_IMM8 relocation in
> this object file format (1)
> make[1]: ***
> [/home/mns/armh323/openh323/lib/obj_linux_arm7tdmi_r/code.o] Error 1
> make: *** [optnoshared] Error 2
> 
> Any clue/suggestion...........

The assembler error might be related to the compiler warnings, so try to
get rid of the warnings (heck, get rid of ALL warnings). Gcc 2.95.2
follows the latest C++ standards, so you have to update your code for this
new standard. Oh, and of course you should always compile with the "-Wall"
flag.

If the error doesn't go away, you have two options:

1. Recompile your toolchain with the latest binutils and gcc development
  snapshots.
2. Fiddle with the optimization flags. Use -O1 instead of -O2, for
  instance.

As you're currently using my toolchain, you'd better go for option 2.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jul 27 20:32:39 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:34:10 -0400
From: "James Caccese" 
To: 
Subject: ksb logic
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hi all, 
i am trying to build a KSB, but i can't seem to find the source for the programmable logic used to implemet most of it's features.
Any help would be well appreciated

Thanks,
James

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jul 28 11:56:50 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: jwcacces@holycross.edu
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Subject: Re: ksb logic
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On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:34:10 -0400, James Caccese wrote:
> i am trying to build a KSB, but i can't seem to find the source for the
> programmable logic used to implemet most of it's features.

There is no source available yet, we're developing it right now.


Erik

-- 
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:20:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: rob 
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: ksb logic
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hey,
	out of curiousity, what is purpose of the lattice parts.  i
glanced at the schematics and they appear to be mostly decoding, routing,
and latching stuff on the bus.
	at the moment i'm trying to stick an ide drive directly onto the
0xf0000000 memory regions (nCS4, nCS5) (5V tolerant buffers). anyone think
this will work?  	
			rob


On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:34:10 -0400, James Caccese wrote:
> > i am trying to build a KSB, but i can't seem to find the source for the
> > programmable logic used to implemet most of it's features.
> 
> There is no source available yet, we're developing it right now.
> 
> 
> Erik
> 
> -- 
> Computers run on faith, not electrons. -- T.N. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 

----
Rob Melby
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a
Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu

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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: ksb logic
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:20:44 -0400 (EDT), rob wrote:
>     out of curiousity, what is purpose of the lattice parts.  i
> glanced at the schematics and they appear to be mostly decoding, routing,
> and latching stuff on the bus.

Exactly.

>     at the moment i'm trying to stick an ide drive directly onto the
> 0xf0000000 memory regions (nCS4, nCS5) (5V tolerant buffers). anyone think
> this will work?     

If you mean _logical_ address 0xf0000000: yes, that's PCMCIA socket 2 I/O
space. That's also what I'm trying to establish, but until now without
luck. IDE is almost like ISA is almost like PCMCIA, so it should work.

Here is a patch against linux-2.4.0-test4-np1 (also applies to
linux-2.4.0-test4-rmk1-np1) that enables IDE PCMCIA and should work in
theory (modulo the device addresses):


diff -urN linux-2.4.0-test4-np1-orig/include/asm-arm/arch-sa1100/ide.h linux-2.4.0-test4-np1/include/asm-arm/arch-sa1100/ide.h
--- linux-2.4.0-test4-np1-orig/include/asm-arm/arch-sa1100/ide.h       Wed Jul 19 09:53:48 2000
+++ linux-2.4.0-test4-np1/include/asm-arm/arch-sa1100/ide.h     Wed Jul 26 14:59:32 2000
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@
 
 #include 
 
-#ifdef CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE
+#if ( defined CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE ) || ( defined CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_MODULE
)
 
 #include 
 #include 
@@ -116,6 +116,24 @@
        ide_init_hwif_ports(&hw, 0xe00001f0, 0xe00003f6, NULL);
        hw.irq = IRQ_GPIO7;
        ide_register_hw(&hw, NULL);
+#endif
+    }
+    else if (machine_is_lart()) {
+#ifdef CONFIG_SA1100_LART
+        hw_regs_t hw;
+
+        /* Enable GPIO as interrupt line */
+        GPDR &= ~GPIO_GPIO1;
+        set_GPIO_IRQ_edge(GPIO_GPIO1, GPIO_RISING_EDGE);
+        
+        /* set PCMCIA interface timing */
+        MECR = 0x00060006;
+
+        /* init the interface */
+        ide_init_hwif_ports(&hw, 0xe00000000, 0xe00001000, NULL);
+        hw.irq = IRQ_GPIO1;
+        ide_register_hw(&hw, NULL);
 #endif
     }
 }


The IDE driver actually crashes with linux-2.4.0-whatever, so you'd better
stick to linux-2.2.14-rmk5-np17. The above patch doesn't apply, but the
change is almost similar.


Erik

-- 
In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they 
are different -- Larry McVoy



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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:21:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: rob 
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: ksb logic
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> > 0xf0000000 memory regions (nCS4, nCS5) (5V tolerant buffers). anyone think
> > this will work?     
> 
> If you mean _logical_ address 0xf0000000: yes, that's PCMCIA socket 2 I/O
> space. That's also what I'm trying to establish, but until now without
> luck. IDE is almost like ISA is almost like PCMCIA, so it should work.
> 

i'm actually using an sa1110 (don't hurt me :D) based devkit.  0xf0000000
on this is static ram/variable latency IO.  i don't have a complete
understanding of the ata spec, but from the cursory glance, it looks like
the drive should act like 16bit memory.  point being, does using the
PCMCIA signals buy you anything ?  

after that you should be able to change the base IO of the ide
port, and use the standard linux ide driver (of course i haven't done it
so maybe not). 

i'm going to try to do a quick and dirty interface (wirewrap!) and see if
i can at least read the ide registers. 

			rob

----
Rob Melby
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a
Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu

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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: ksb logic
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:21:04 -0400 (EDT), rob wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:
>> > 0xf0000000 memory regions (nCS4, nCS5) (5V tolerant buffers). anyone think
>> > this will work?     
>> 
>> If you mean _logical_ address 0xf0000000: yes, that's PCMCIA socket 2 I/O
>> space. That's also what I'm trying to establish, but until now without
>> luck. IDE is almost like ISA is almost like PCMCIA, so it should work.
> 
> i'm actually using an sa1110 (don't hurt me :D) based devkit.  0xf0000000
> on this is static ram/variable latency IO.  i don't have a complete

You're using an Intel Assabet?

> understanding of the ata spec, but from the cursory glance, it looks like
> the drive should act like 16bit memory.  point being, does using the
> PCMCIA signals buy you anything ?  

Yup, the drive acts like 2x8 I/O registers.

I don't really remember what the exact advantages of the PCMCIA space
were, I don't have the SA1100 manual with me (the SA1100 and the SA1110
are exactly the same in this case).

> after that you should be able to change the base IO of the ide
> port, and use the standard linux ide driver (of course i haven't done it
> so maybe not). 

Look out that the memory must be mapped. Also look out that you have the
memory uncached or otherwise you'll get very strange effects.

I think you have to use linux-2.2.14-rkm5-np17 (because the IDE driver in
2.4.0-test4-rmk1-np1 doesn't work), and in that case you have to put the
IDE drive in PCMCIA I/O space, because the I/O ports are given as an
offset wrt the base of the PCMCIA space. In 2.4.0 you can put the drive
anywhere in the (virtual) address space, but... The advantage of the
PCMCIA space is that it is properly mapped ;-).

> i'm going to try to do a quick and dirty interface (wirewrap!) and see if
> i can at least read the ide registers. 

Oh cool! A tip we got from Nicolas: if it doesn't work on the StrongARM,
wirewrap yourself an interface for the ISA bus and try the drive in a PC.


Erik

-- 
Jul 28 21:20:50 linux kernel: lp0 printer error
Jul 28 21:20:50 linux kernel: lp0 on fire
  -- Linux kernel log



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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: rob 
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: ksb logic
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> You're using an Intel Assabet?

actually one of brightstareng.com's little sub-creditcard things.  they're
reasonably nice, a tad expensive (but hassle free to get), breaks out
nearly everything via molex (comes in pci or generic user bus out).

		rob


------
Rob Melby
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a
Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jul 29 05:49:35 2000
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	 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:37:39 +1000
From: "Chris Masters" 
To: 
Subject: PCB fab
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:46:17 +1000
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Hi,

What's happening regarding the boards that are going to being be fab'd? Is
it being held off until rev 4 LART boards are out?

Cheers

Chris

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Yep. Actually, we're waiting for the rev 4 gerbers, KSB, Eth, memory
expansion boards and all that jaz. These won't be released until the
gracious developers have determined them to be ready. If you use Linux,
you're probably familiar with this style of development while
breathlessly waiting for the next stable kernel to be released. In the
end quality is much better - which is important if you're making a small
run of a few $250+ (disclaimer - uneducated price guess) assembled
boards... Stay tuned - this list will most certainly start bubbling with
fabrication talk when the gerbers are out and have the blessing of the
core developers.

Mike

Chris Masters wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> What's happening regarding the boards that are going to being be fab'd? Is
> it being held off until rev 4 LART boards are out?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 11:48:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:46:37 +0200
From: pelgrims p 
Reply-To: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: JTAG Flash programmer for Lart ?
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Dear Sir,

Having assembled my Lart board I would lik to program the Flash-es :-).
Can you give me some info, pictures, schematics, URL's about this item ?

Can you put the relevant Lart-JTAG-Programming stuff on line ?
Is there a NT or Linux version available ?
Hoping to receive some possitive recation ,so that I can boot the Lart,
I meanwhile remain,

    Patrick Pelgrims
    Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst
    Campus NARAFI
    V. Rousseaulaan 75
    B-1190 Brussels
    Belgium

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 15:05:35 2000
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Message-ID: <3985796D.6708B33A@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:04:45 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: JTAG Flash programmer for Lart ?
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--------------2F314958D15A8891ABB41E35
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pelgrims p wrote:
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> Having assembled my Lart board I would lik to program the Flash-es :-).
> Can you give me some info, pictures, schematics, URL's about this item ?

I thought I'd mailed it to JDB, but maybe not. Here's a copy of what
I've done - enjoy! I'm on holiday from Friday, so if you want to find
bugs (and get them fixed) you need to be quick! 

Steve
--------------2F314958D15A8891ABB41E35
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 15:43:50 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:42:39 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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To: patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: JTAG programmer for LART :-)
References: <39854B00.50E0DFA6@pandora.be>
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See email from Steve Wiseman for the software, and the list archives for
how to build a JTAG cable. I tried a building the LED cable, and ended
up needing to put in an extra diode to boost the signal voltages up to
~3v. As of right now it doesn't work though. Probing with a scope shows
that the signals look pretty crappy (really long rise and fall times
such that the clock signal for example just looks like a messy jagged
edge) so I am going to throw a DB25-74AHCT Buffer-LART JTAG board onto
my next order for work, hoping that this will improve the signals. Steve
got his LART going with the LED cable though so maybe my cable is wrong
or I have funny LEDs or something. Anyway, good luck.

pelgrims p wrote:
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> Having assembled my Lart board I would lik to program the Flash-es :-).
> Can you give me some info, pictures, schematics, URL's about this item ?
> 
> Can you put the relevant Lart-JTAG-Programming stuff on line ?
> Is there a NT or Linux version available ?
> Hoping to receive some possitive recation ,so that I can boot the Lart,
> I meanwhile remain,
> 
>     Patrick Pelgrims
>     Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst
>     Campus NARAFI
>     V. Rousseaulaan 75
>     B-1190 Brussels
>     Belgium
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 16:36:27 2000
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Message-ID: <39858EE7.1F32E32@steves-house.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:36:23 +0100
From: Steve Wiseman 
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To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: Re: JTAG programmer for LART :-)
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Holly Gates wrote:
> I tried a building the LED cable, and ended
> up needing to put in an extra diode to boost the signal voltages up to
> ~3v.

Odd, what colour leds were you using? Is it a laptop or a 'proper' PC? 

> As of right now it doesn't work though. Probing with a scope shows
> that the signals look pretty crappy (really long rise and fall times
> such that the clock signal for example just looks like a messy jagged
> edge) 

Eek. That's not the plan... mine were pretty well behaved. It's also
possible that your PC is faster than mine - I was using a crufty old
P100. I was sort of hoping the IO operation would be self-timing,
though. 

> so I am going to throw a DB25-74AHCT Buffer-LART JTAG board onto
> my next order for work, hoping that this will improve the signals.

Is that actually a level-shifter? If not, you may be in trouble. 

> Steve
> got his LART going with the LED cable though so maybe my cable is wrong
> or I have funny LEDs or something. Anyway, good luck.

Yeah, been through a few hundred programming cycles, no dropouts. I
could be lucky, of course. The LED cable was always a bit of a hack,
made of stuff I had lying around. 


Steve

(Don't suppose any LARTers have a baffled wet sump for a crossflow
lying
around? - worth a try, I'm getting desparate)
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 17:13:45 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:11:27 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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Subject: Re: JTAG programmer for LART :-)
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Steve Wiseman wrote:
> 
> Holly Gates wrote:
> > I tried a building the LED cable, and ended
> > up needing to put in an extra diode to boost the signal voltages up to
> > ~3v.
> 
> Odd, what colour leds were you using? Is it a laptop or a 'proper' PC?

Green, on a regular PC. I used 330pF caps too, which should make the
rise/fall times faster.

> 
> > As of right now it doesn't work though. Probing with a scope shows
> > that the signals look pretty crappy (really long rise and fall times
> > such that the clock signal for example just looks like a messy jagged
> > edge)
> 
> Eek. That's not the plan... mine were pretty well behaved. It's also
> possible that your PC is faster than mine - I was using a crufty old
> P100. I was sort of hoping the IO operation would be self-timing,
> though.

I am using a fast PIII with loads of fast RAM. Running the Jflash-linux
program without the cable attached returns:

[root@winsmear jtag]# ./Jflash-linux
using printer port at 378
enter binary file name: blob   
error, failed to read device ID
ACT: 1111 1111111111111111 11111111111 1
EXP: X001 0001000010000100 00000110101 1

failed to read device ID for the SA-1100
[root@winsmear jtag]# 


Running the program with the LART attached and powered up returns:

[root@winsmear jtag]# ./Jflash-linux
using printer port at 378
enter binary file name: blob   
error, failed to read device ID
ACT: 1111 1111111100000000 00000000011 1
EXP: X001 0001000010000100 00000110101 1

failed to read device ID for the SA-1100
[root@winsmear jtag]# 

As you can see the ACT number comes back differently, but I don't know
if that has any significance.

Looking at the clock signal, there is a period of about 2.2uS (so the
clock is running at ~450kHz). I don't know if this is faster than your
lpt stuff is running? The 1K resistor into 330pF gives an RC of about
.3us, so its not surprising that a 2.2uS period is giving me trouble.

> 
> > so I am going to throw a DB25-74AHCT Buffer-LART JTAG board onto
> > my next order for work, hoping that this will improve the signals.
> 
> Is that actually a level-shifter? If not, you may be in trouble.
> 

Oops, I meant 74AHC541 or 74LVTH541. The AHC is not specifically a level
shifter, but has 5V tolerant inputs and the LVTH is a level shifter.

Thanks for the help,
-Holly Gates
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jul 31 23:38:41 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: Email me for PCB
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Im taking names for a group order of lart rev 3 PCB's.
The price is $93/BOARD. We are up to 11 boards and we
will order when we reach 15.
James, my reply to your recent email bounced back.
Thanks,
Joe O'Donnell
galabad@yahoo.com


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  2 06:10:26 2000
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Subject: about PS/2 driver
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Hi, 
I have no idea where to post this mail,so send it to lart(sa1100),
because i will get some replay maill from that.

Does any PS/2 device on lart or other SA-1100 board,likes PS/2 mouse
or PS/2 keyboard....etc ?? Or have any PS/2 driver that run on SA1100
??

Thanks,

					Chester


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From: Erik Mouw 
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On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:13:03 +0800 (CST), chester@linux.org.tw wrote:
> I have no idea where to post this mail,so send it to lart(sa1100),
> because i will get some replay maill from that.

Is this wishful thinking? ;-)

> Does any PS/2 device on lart or other SA-1100 board,likes PS/2 mouse
> or PS/2 keyboard....etc ?? Or have any PS/2 driver that run on SA1100
> ??

We want to use Vojtech Pavlik's input drivers, see
http://www.suse.cz/development/input/ . These drivers are scheduled to be
included inlinux-2.5, although it's currently a patch for linux-2.4.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  2 13:22:20 2000
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To: Erik Mouw 
cc: chester@linux.org.tw, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: about PS/2 driver
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> Is this wishful thinking? ;-)

Ya,larter people replay mail very quickly ...:)

> 
> > Does any PS/2 device on lart or other SA-1100 board,likes PS/2 mouse
> > or PS/2 keyboard....etc ?? Or have any PS/2 driver that run on SA1100
> > ??
> 
> We want to use Vojtech Pavlik's input drivers, see
> http://www.suse.cz/development/input/ . These drivers are scheduled to be
> included inlinux-2.5, although it's currently a patch for linux-2.4.
> 
Yes,this linux input project and linux console project will be included
to linux-2.5 kernel,as far as i know,this enhances other input device.

But i will get pc_keyb.c from drivers/char to modified for me.

Any comments??

				Chester

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug  4 03:16:29 2000
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From: rob 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: logic analyzer [OT]
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hi,
	what's everyone's preference in logic analyzers ?   i need to find
one soon here; i'd like a pc based one.  
	any ideas? 
		rob

----
Rob Melby
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a
Internet: rob@kaybee.org, gt4255a@prism.gatech.edu

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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:25:29 +0200
From: Daven Baptist 
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hello,
is it posible to place a kernel image in to
flash and to start the kernel from flash
(or the bootloader get the coppy from flash and places it in ram).

the target i'm running on is a assabet board with blob-1.0.8pre2
blob tels me it loads a image from flash

	Loading kernel from flash ... done

but how do i get an other image there ??

can i use the Jflash tool to place the image there and
were is 'there'.

in the code the kernel source address is refered to 
as "KERNEL_RAM_BASE" so i guess that i must change that
to somthing like kernel_flash_base pointing to the address were
the kernel is located.

i hope someone can awnser some of these questions (or maybe all :)  )

Daven
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug  4 13:00:31 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: kernel in rom, start from rom
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Date: Fri 04 Aug 2000 13:00:28 +0100 (MDT)
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On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:25:29 +0200, Daven Baptist wrote:
> is it posible to place a kernel image in to
> flash and to start the kernel from flash

Running the kernel directly from flash is possible, but it needs quite a
lot of kernel modifications. The code and static data segments can be
placed in ROM, but the dynamic data has to be initialised and copied to
RAM. All possible, but quite hairy.

> (or the bootloader get the coppy from flash and places it in ram).

That's the easy part.

> the target i'm running on is a assabet board with blob-1.0.8pre2
> blob tels me it loads a image from flash
> 
>     Loading kernel from flash ... done
> 
> but how do i get an other image there ??

Blob can not yet flash the Flash it is running from, but there is a
workaround:

- burn blob into flash
- powerup assabet
- download kernel
- download ramdisk
- boot linux
- log in as root
- (switch to 115200 baud: "stty ispeed 115200")
- download flash_mem module and insert it in the kernel
- make flash drivers: "mknod /dev/flashX b 60 X", where X is the flash
  partition number. look in linux/drivers/block/flash_mem.h for the
  Assabet flash partition descriptions
- download kernel
- write kernel to flash: dd if=vmlinuz of=/dev/flashX
- repeat last two steps for the ramdisk

It is possible that you have to make room for the ramdisk image, possibly
by creating a second ramdisk.

> can i use the Jflash tool to place the image there and
> were is 'there'.

Of course you can use jflash, but I think the workaround is slightly
faster.

> in the code the kernel source address is refered to 
> as "KERNEL_RAM_BASE" so i guess that i must change that
> to somthing like kernel_flash_base pointing to the address were
> the kernel is located.

Look in include/main.h for the Assabet case. The kernel starts at
0x00008000, the ramdisk at 0x00800000.

> i hope someone can awnser some of these questions (or maybe all :)  )

I think I did a god job ;-)


Erik

-- 
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"The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams



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From: Aaron Toney 
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To: rob 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: logic analyzer [OT]
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> 	what's everyone's preference in logic analyzers ?   i need to find
> one soon here; i'd like a pc based one.  
> 	any ideas? 

	Depends heavily on your price range. How much are you looking to
spend? How many channels do you need? How fast do you need to sample and ho
wide a sampling window do you want?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug  7 10:47:34 2000
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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:47:18 +0200 
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Hi,

I'm new this list and this theme.

I'm needed to find a embeded system to lead the analog singal values to SNMP
interface.
Is the Lart system good solution to this task or not?

Thanks your help

Regards,
             Ferenc
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug  7 13:13:18 2000
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On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:47:18 +0200 , Pereszlényi Ferenc wrote:
> I'm new this list and this theme.

Welcome!

> I'm needed to find a embeded system to lead the analog singal values to SNMP
> interface.
> Is the Lart system good solution to this task or not?

Any system will do, you just have to make the A/D hardware (or use the
UCB1200 on the KSB) and a software interface for SNMP.


Erik

-- 
Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes"
use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel



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_________________________________________________________________
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Country                 Code    Per Minute 
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American Samoa----------684       0.16
Andorra-----------------336       0.17
Angola------------------244       0.36
Anguilla----------------264       0.34
Antigu------------------268       0.40
Aruba-------------------297       0.26
Bahamas-----------------242       0.16
Bangladesh--------------880       0.64
Barbados----------------246       0.42
Belize------------------501       0.51
Bermuda-----------------441       0.16
Canada------------------          0.07
Cape  Verde-------------238       0.43
Caymans-----------------345       0.26
Dominica----------------767       0.44
Dominican Rep.----------809       0.14
Egypt-------------------20        0.51
France------------------33        0.06
Germany-----------------49        0.05
Grand Turk--------------649       0.44 
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If you would like to be removed from our list, please reply to:
mailto:cheaprates1234@earthlink.net with the word "remove" in the 
subject line.
****************************************************

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  9 11:51:32 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: re:from Lorraine - Philippines $0.23, Japan $.09,china $.31,malaysia$.18 and more,save money
In-Reply-To: <814.158262.700729@mx.boston.juno.com>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 09 Aug 2000 11:51:28 +0100 (MDT)
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 00:05:47 +0000, cheaprates1234@earthlink.net wrote:
> ONLY IF YOU WANT YOUR PHONE BILL CUT IN 1/2 

[snip]

Spam report is on its way.


Erik

-- 
They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll
eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  9 14:22:48 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: IDE works
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 09 Aug 2000 14:22:37 +0100 (MDT)
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Hi all,

We just got IDE working on the LART. It turned out that the CPLD
programming software is a bit buggy: the CPLD was programmed in such a way
that A3 was stuck-at-one. After we LARTed the CPLD programming software
the IDE was detected nicely and we could mount /dev/hda1 on /mnt.

I'm currently downloading debian-arm so we can also do native compiles on
the LART. Next on the list is ethernet.


Erik

-- 
Yes, it works sometimes. If you need something that "works sometimes"
use Windows! -- Victor Khimenko on linux-kernel



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  9 15:05:51 2000
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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:55:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: IDE works
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>We just got IDE working on the LART.


Good work, guys!
I know we're all breathlessly awaiting the day when you're satisfied with the 
fact that everything works, so we can see the gerbers. :) 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug  9 16:19:55 2000
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 10 18:28:51 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:27:48 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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I just got back some little lpt jtag programmer boards for use with LART
that I designed and threw on the edges of a board panel that I was
sending out for work. I used the dongle and the Jflash-linux binary that
Steve sent me to load the precompiled blob 1.0.7b, then made up a serial
cable and watched blob run. It froze after the "starting kernel ..."
message, but maybe thats because I have not downloaded a kernel.

Anyhow, thanks to the LART team and to Steve Wiseman for helping me get
this far. I don't have a place I can put things up on the web right now,
but I would like to distribute the gerber files, BOM, and a photo of the
jtag dongle. I can send this to you individually if you ask me, or if
someone had some space on their website they could post it there. 

I have a couple of extra boards and parts enough to populate them. Of
course this is a trivial chunk of hardware that anyone can
build, but I know I was too lazy to bother wiring something up before
this board came after my LED cable had problems...

LART team:
If you want them, I would be happy to send you a couple jtag dongles.
What is your mailing address?

Everyone else:
I have a couple of extras. If you have an assembled LART and are just
sitting around waiting for a way to program the flash, send me your
mailing address and I will send you a board. If you are going to fab
LARTs, you could throw the jtag dongle on the same panel. If there was
tremendous interest I could make about 100 of these things from one PCB
half-panel. Board cost and parts plus a tiny fee for the 10 minutes it
takes me to solder a dongle would make them come out to something like
$15 USD each. Write me if you are interested.

-Holly Gates
 Hardware Engineer
 E Ink Corp.
 www.eink.com
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 10 20:04:59 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:05:01 +0100
From: Andrew Ebling 
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Subject: Re: jtag successful!
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Great work Holly!  Could this go on the LART main pages?  I think it could
be a very useful resource for a lot of people.

BR,

Andrew

Holly Gates wrote:

> I just got back some little lpt jtag programmer boards for use with LART
> that I designed and threw on the edges of a board panel that I was
> sending out for work. I used the dongle and the Jflash-linux binary that
> Steve sent me to load the precompiled blob 1.0.7b, then made up a serial
> cable and watched blob run. It froze after the "starting kernel ..."
> message, but maybe thats because I have not downloaded a kernel.
>
> Anyhow, thanks to the LART team and to Steve Wiseman for helping me get
> this far. I don't have a place I can put things up on the web right now,
> but I would like to distribute the gerber files, BOM, and a photo of the
> jtag dongle. I can send this to you individually if you ask me, or if
> someone had some space on their website they could post it there.
>
> I have a couple of extra boards and parts enough to populate them. Of
> course this is a trivial chunk of hardware that anyone can
> build, but I know I was too lazy to bother wiring something up before
> this board came after my LED cable had problems...
>
> LART team:
> If you want them, I would be happy to send you a couple jtag dongles.
> What is your mailing address?
>
> Everyone else:
> I have a couple of extras. If you have an assembled LART and are just
> sitting around waiting for a way to program the flash, send me your
> mailing address and I will send you a board. If you are going to fab
> LARTs, you could throw the jtag dongle on the same panel. If there was
> tremendous interest I could make about 100 of these things from one PCB
> half-panel. Board cost and parts plus a tiny fee for the 10 minutes it
> takes me to solder a dongle would make them come out to something like
> $15 USD each. Write me if you are interested.
>
> -Holly Gates
>  Hardware Engineer
>  E Ink Corp.
>  www.eink.com
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 10 20:23:35 2000
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Subject: Re: jtag successful!
In-Reply-To: <3992D804.51C866A9@eink.com> from Holly Gates at "Aug 10, 0 12:27:48 pm"
To: hgates@eink.com (Holly Gates)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:23:33 +0200 (CEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
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Holly Gates wrote:
> I just got back some little lpt jtag programmer boards for use with LART
> that I designed and threw on the edges of a board panel that I was
> sending out for work. I used the dongle and the Jflash-linux binary that
> Steve sent me to load the precompiled blob 1.0.7b, then made up a serial
> cable and watched blob run. It froze after the "starting kernel ..."
> message, but maybe thats because I have not downloaded a kernel.

I'm sure that's the case. Blob just happily copies some stuff from
flash to DRAM and executes that code. If the flash contains garbage,
this is what you get. Anyway: it's cool. I am currently working on
the flash driver for Linux. If that's ready, you can program the
flash from Linux by just using "dd if=zImage of=/dev/flash1".

> Anyhow, thanks to the LART team and to Steve Wiseman for helping me get
> this far. I don't have a place I can put things up on the web right now,
> but I would like to distribute the gerber files, BOM, and a photo of the
> jtag dongle. I can send this to you individually if you ask me, or if
> someone had some space on their website they could post it there. 

If you send me the information, I'll put it onto the LART site.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug 11 02:20:10 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 8:19:8 +0800
From: zhaoy 
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To: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: Jtag programming problem
Organization: Hanwang
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hi, all

I am debuging a board based on SA-1110. By using Jflash-Linux(for 1110)
and a selfmade jtag programmer, I can read SA-1110's ID from jtag port on my board, 
but I can't use the jtag port to control FlashMemory(28F128J3, two chips). When I try to 
write "clear status register" and "read query" commands to it, I always read 0xFFFFFF
or 0x80252080 instead of 0x510051. This really makes me faint. 

 I appreciate you help!!

Thank you!
Best regards

Marc Zhao






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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug 11 17:08:50 2000
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Subject: jtag for the LART
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:08:48 +0200 (CEST)
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
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Hi all,

We just made a web page with Holly Gates' JTAG hardware information
and the programming software from Nicolas Pitre and Steve Wiseman.
Have a look at:

  http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/

Thanks for your efforts!


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Aug 12 14:22:32 2000
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:22:15 -0400
From: Hugues Belanger 
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CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, Erik Mouw ,
        "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: LART Rev 4 & KSB $ Etherboard
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Hi Gents,

I need to get my hands on a 10 LART board ASAP and I figure that the easiest
way to get them is to built my own. I've tried to get the Rev 3 DC-DC converter
from Maxim and as mention before they are to hard to get by. So I was wondering
if anybody had the Rev 4 Gerber's yet?

I read the policy about gerber release and since the only mod between rev three
and four is the power supply I don't see why you would release them to.

I'm not to concern about the fact that you have not tested the etherboard I
have someone here that can do that... This would speed up development and
remove some of the load of you guys...

Thanks

Hugues Belanger


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Aug 12 15:16:22 2000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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Hello,

I was just wondering the progress on the expansion boards for the memory?

Somebody told me about a 3 week period, that was a few weeks ago now, i left it a lot 
longer, just wondering if we can expect them any time soon?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Aug 12 15:19:40 2000
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I would just like to put this message to the list just incase anybody can not find 
certain components, this supplier was able to get me the LOW-ESR tantalums 
exactly as I specified and was able to order a StrongARM from a dealer in NL....

Address is
www.xs4all.nl/~barendh

Email him at Barendh@xs4all.nl

If your looking for some parts.... He will special order them in...

* I am in no way linked to www.xs4all.nl/~barendh , just want everybody to know 
that it is a respected place that can get some of the hard to get parts in *

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt
TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Aug 15 13:32:59 2000
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: 
Subject: RE: jtag for the LART
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:32:37 +0200
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Could you post the copper layers as pdf as well? I have access to 2-layer
pcb etching equipment but not a Gerber plotter. With the pdf I can just
print out some overheads and get going ;) Preferably placed not too close to
paper margin and one layer per page.

Will there be a *cough* win- *cough* dows *cough* version of the SW or do I
need a proper OS first?

Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Erik Mouw
> Sent: 11 August, 2000 17:09
> To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject: jtag for the LART
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We just made a web page with Holly Gates' JTAG hardware information
> and the programming software from Nicolas Pitre and Steve Wiseman.
> Have a look at:
>
>   http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/
>
> Thanks for your efforts!
>
>
> Erik
>
> --
> J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
> of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
> Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The
> Netherlands
> Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email:
> J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
> WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Aug 15 14:16:10 2000
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Nicolai Mahncke wrote:

> Will there be a *cough* win- *cough* dows *cough* version of the SW or do I
> need a proper OS first?

The support's in there - it should all just go, but it's untested. If
it works at all, it'll work fine, from 95 to NT. I'm just back off
holiday, so I can't do it myself, but if you need a hand, let me know. 

Steve
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:29:20 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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I will generate them, as well as a schematic, if the LART guys are
willing to put it on the site?

-Holly


Nicolai Mahncke wrote:
> 
> Could you post the copper layers as pdf as well? I have access to 2-layer
> pcb etching equipment but not a Gerber plotter. With the pdf I can just
> print out some overheads and get going ;) Preferably placed not too close to
> paper margin and one layer per page.
> 
> Will there be a *cough* win- *cough* dows *cough* version of the SW or do I
> need a proper OS first?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Nicolai Mahncke
> mailto:nicolai@reipur.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> > Behalf Of Erik Mouw
> > Sent: 11 August, 2000 17:09
> > To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Subject: jtag for the LART
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We just made a web page with Holly Gates' JTAG hardware information
> > and the programming software from Nicolas Pitre and Steve Wiseman.
> > Have a look at:
> >
> >   http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/
> >
> > Thanks for your efforts!
> >
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > --
> > J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
> > of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
> > Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The
> > Netherlands
> > Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email:
> > J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
> > WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> >
> 
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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: jtag for the LART
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On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:29:20 -0400, Holly Gates wrote:
> I will generate them, as well as a schematic, if the LART guys are
> willing to put it on the site?

Oh, sure. I think our messages crossed each other, I just asked you for
the schematics ;-).

A small note for people building their own JTAG dongle:

There is a minor change that your JTAG programmer won't work immediately.
If that's the case, add an extra 100 ohm resistor between pins 6 and 7 of
the JTAG connector so nTRST will be pulled to +3.3V.


Erik

-- 
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 -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Aug 15 19:57:41 2000
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Right-o. I forgot to mention that I had already put a jumper on my LART
from nTRST to the main reset coming out of the MAX chip when I was
trying to program via my LED cable. Sorry about that.

I will try to get those pdf files of the layout and schematic to you
today.

-Holly

Erik Mouw wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:29:20 -0400, Holly Gates wrote:
> > I will generate them, as well as a schematic, if the LART guys are
> > willing to put it on the site?
> 
> Oh, sure. I think our messages crossed each other, I just asked you for
> the schematics ;-).
> 
> A small note for people building their own JTAG dongle:
> 
> There is a minor change that your JTAG programmer won't work immediately.
> If that's the case, add an extra 100 ohm resistor between pins 6 and 7 of
> the JTAG connector so nTRST will be pulled to +3.3V.
> 
> Erik
> 
> --
> A towel has immense psychological value.
>  -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Aug 15 23:42:41 2000
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Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The LART has landed.

After successful installation of Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 on the IDE disk, the
LART compiled its own kernel (2.4.0-test6-rmk2-np1, running under
2.2.14-rmk5-np17). It took about 40 minutes to compile the kernel and the
modules. A first estimate is that it took 7kJ to compile this kernel (2kJ
for the LART, 5kJ for the disk).

It's a small step for a LART, but a giant leap for LARTkind.


Erik

-- 
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"The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 16 17:24:46 2000
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Hello,

What's the status of the KSB ?
Can we have already a look to the Lattice ISP design files ?
Can we expect the "release" soon ?

SA-greatings,

    P. Pelgrims

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 17 16:46:28 2000
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Hi,larter !
i have compiled kernel that supoort UCB-1200 touch screen support
that from Nico's patch.
But have any calibration test program that for it,has anyone write it??
(Sorry for lazy ..!)

Best regards,

				Chester

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 17 17:12:00 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:48:08 +0800 (CST), chester@linux.org.tw wrote:
> i have compiled kernel that supoort UCB-1200 touch screen support
> that from Nico's patch.

Ah, cool! Did you also rewrite the underlying MCP driver so the audio and
touch-screen drivers can work together?

> But have any calibration test program that for it,has anyone write it??

If I remember correctly, there is a calibration tool in the handhelds.org
CVS tree. There was a message about that a couple of days ago on one the
handhelds.org mailing lists.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From: "Seger, Justin M" 
To: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: calibration program
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:40:31 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> Hi,larter !
> i have compiled kernel that supoort UCB-1200 touch screen support
> that from Nico's patch.
> But have any calibration test program that for it,has anyone 
> write it??
> (Sorry for lazy ..!)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 				Chester

I've only tested it briefly, however it appears to work fine without any
calibration, at least on an Assabet.

Justin

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From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: [Handhelds] PocketLinux introduction (fwd)
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Thu 17 Aug 2000 20:04:55 +0100 (MDT)
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Hi all,

This came by on the handhelds mailing list. FYI.


Erik


--- Forwarded mail from Jim Pick (jim@pocketlinux.com) on 17 Aug 2000 10:41:00 -0700:
Hiya,

I just thought I'd drop a note to the LinuxCE and Handhelds groups to
check out the stuff I've been working on (with Transvirtual) for the
last 8 months.  We finally launched it at LWCE, and it's all available
now.  We've been working on it for a while, but we've been keeping
things low-key until this week.  So there's a lot of information in
here, so I apologize if it sounds like I'm trying to sell something,
because I'm not.  I just want this to be an introduction.

Our project is called "PocketLinux", and it's a complete GPL'd PDA
operating system which can run on just about any machine that can run
Linux.  Our primary development targets have been the VTech Helio and,
more recently, the Compaq iPaq.

  http://www.pocketlinux.com/

It's still pretty young, but in the spirit of "release early, release
often", all the source is available now at PocketLinux.com (plus .debs
and RPMs).  There isn't much documentation yet though - but it will
come.

I'm extremely impressed with the amount of core functionality the guys
here at Transvirtual have been able to shovel into such a small
footprint.  It's got the Linux kernel (of course), the Kaffe virtual
machine + libraries, an application framework built around an XML
parser, and a few embryonic applications.  It seems like a good mix so
far.

We don't use X11, or any other windowing system - instead, the AWT
talks directly to the Linux framebuffer.  In the multimedia
department, we've already got a MP3 player and even a MPEG video
player.  We've got our own homebrew handwriting recognition system.
It can even be used to run applets from off the Internet (reformatted
to fit the screen size, of course).  We've got some basic
synchronization working (based on rsync at the moment).  And we've got
themes!  I'm really excited by the application possibilities.

Here are some screenshots:

  http://www.transvirtual.com/pocketlinux.htm
  http://www.transvirtual.com/pocketlinux-screens.htm

What I find really interesting about how it works is that most of the
applications we've written basically consist of a few XML pages, and
possibly a bit of Java logic.  That means they are _small_.  Most of
the code resides in the core libraries, where it gets reused between
applications.

Our latest demo stuff has been built for the iPaq, and we'll be
squeezing it to fit onto the Helio over the next few weeks.  We did
the latest demo for the iPaq first, because it's a bit more luxurious
of an environment, and it's good eye-candy for the demos.  But the
Helio is extremely interesting too, because it's very low cost ($149).
Plus the Helio has been a shipping product for nearly a year.  We've
got 250 of them to sell and/or give away - drop me a note if you're
interested.

It should be possible to get PocketLinux up an running on just about
any machine supported by Linux.  I'm looking forward to getting it
going on the Agenda VR3, and the Yopy when they become available.
We're also willing to put some effort into supporting it on obsolete
PDAs, such as the Philips Nino, or any of the other ones supported by
the LinuxCE project (or others).  We've currently got MIPS and ARM
support at the moment.

We're probably a bit too heavy for something like uCLinux running on
the Palm, but I think that it's not worth going that low because there
are ugly functionality vs. CPU horsepower tradeoffs that aren't worth
making.  Slow 20MHz machines without an MMU just aren't going to cut
it in a networked environment.  And they're irrelevent when you can
get better machines (such as the Helio) for the same price.  It sounds
like the next generation Palms are going to be StrongARM based
anyways, so I'm sure they'll run Linux.

A bit of history...

Transvirtual was formed when two of the superstars in the free Java
world (Tim Wilkinson and Peter Mehlitz) got together a few years ago.
Tim is the original author of kaffe, and Peter was known for Biss-AWT,
which Sun ripped off to create Swing.  They moved from Europe to
Berkeley, and set to work writing a complete clean room
re-implementation of Sun's JDK.  It's pretty mature now.

Because Kaffe has been implemented so much more efficiently than Sun's
stuff, we're actually able to run on lower end hardware than Sun is
able to.  Transvirtual's bread and butter over the last few years has
been built on providing working solutions to a veritable who's who of
silicon valley companies in areas where Sun's stuff has failed
miserably.

Transvirtual first experience with PDAs was with Digital's Itsy
project, about a year and half ago.  Getting kaffe on the device was a
smash success, and it got the company seriously thinking about how it
could contribute to the space.  The outcome of all that thinking is
PocketLinux.

Tim discovered the Helio last year, and became quite excited by it's
potential as a Linux platform.  I became involved with the kernel port
for it, first as a contractor, then as an employee.  Tim is still the
guy that holds everything together, and he's the god of the virtual
machine.  Peter does all the low-level graphics stuff, and a lot of
the class libraries.  These guys are some of the best programmers on
this planet.

The other people on the team are Joerg Mehlitz (Peter's brother), who
has done a lot of work on applications, and the framework.  Colin
Klingman is the key guy for the XML framework, which rocks.  There's
the new guys: Rob Levin (a.k.a. lilo, who's holding the development
kit packages together), Paul Fisher (the classpath guy, who just came
in from Red Hat), and Philippe Laporte (our big Quebecois compiler
guru).  Mark Gary (muggles) holds the network together.  Gary Freeman,
Tony Fader, Danny and Izzy help to hold the front office together and
keep us fed.  I hope I didn't miss anyone.  We're a stereotypical
silicon valley startup at the moment, and our investors have been
instrumental, and they actually personally come in and help us out a
lot.

Also part of the team are the folks over at Brainfood.com (Ean and
Erik Scheussler, and their Debian-developer heavy staff), who have
been instrumental in putting together the server side of things.
They're good guys that I've known from their Debian work going way
back.  They've written a kick-ass open source XML/XSLT website system
called "Webslinger".  You're going to see a lot more from them.

We're going to be staffing up going forward, so if you're looking for
a cool job...  you know the routine.

And of course, we wouldn't be anywhere without the help of the free
software community, and awesome projects like Linux, gcc, kaffe, Linux
CE, Linux VR, vhl-tools (Jay Carlson, yeah), busybox, and
handhelds.org, to name a few.

So stay tuned, and feel free to ask me any questions.  I might be a
bit slow answering though, as I'm on vacation until next Tuesday.

Cheers,

 - Jim

-- 
Really, I'm getting paid to play with all these toys.  :-)
http://www.pocketlinux.com/
_______________________________________________
Handhelds mailing list
Handhelds@handhelds.org
http://handhelds.org/mailman/listinfo/handhelds

--- End of forwarded mail from Jim Pick (jim@pocketlinux.com) on 17 Aug 2000 10:41:00 -0700

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug 18 05:31:57 2000
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To: "Seger, Justin M" 
cc: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: calibration program
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Thanks,
Do you mean that it will set calibrated data back to driver??
What's is major and minor??

				Chester


On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Seger, Justin M wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Hi,larter !
> > i have compiled kernel that supoort UCB-1200 touch screen support
> > that from Nico's patch.
> > But have any calibration test program that for it,has anyone 
> > write it??
> > (Sorry for lazy ..!)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > 				Chester
> 
> I've only tested it briefly, however it appears to work fine without any
> calibration, at least on an Assabet.
> 
> Justin
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug 18 05:36:21 2000
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:39:00 +0800 (CST)
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: chester@linux.org.tw, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: calibration program
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> 
> Ah, cool! Did you also rewrite the underlying MCP driver so the audio and
> touch-screen drivers can work together?
> 
No yet! put UDA1341 for audio and UCB-1200 for TS.


> 
> If I remember correctly, there is a calibration tool in the handhelds.org
> CVS tree. There was a message about that a couple of days ago on one the
> handhelds.org mailing lists.
> 
We must change a lot of setting to let it works under assabet or others
SA-11x0 based board.
Actually,i have rewrited touch-panel driver ,and add a xcalibration
program that works under X windows,but i have trouble that when i 
want to enable TS driver under X windows.


						Chester

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Aug 18 14:10:25 2000
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Message-ID: 
From: "Seger, Justin M" 
To: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: calibration program
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:08:25 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> 
> Thanks,
> Do you mean that it will set calibrated data back to driver??
> What's is major and minor??
> 
> 				Chester

I mean that when accessing the device from software (Microwindows for
example), the
touchscreen appears to work fine without any calibration software being run.


Somewhere in one of the many mailing list archives, I was told to create the
following:
mknod /dev/ts c 254 34
mknod /dev/tsraw c 254 18

As far as I know, the software only uses "/dev/ts".

NOTE: 254 may or may not be the major number on your system.  It is
dynamically assigned to the driver.  "cat /proc/devices" and look for the
line for the touchscreen.  That will give you the correct major number.

Good luck,
Justin Seger

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Kevin Fowlks
Programmer Analyst
Center for Remote Sensing and GIS
Michigan State University
(517)-432-9808

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Aug 20 08:31:09 2000
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To: "Seger, Justin M" 
cc: "'chester@linux.org.tw'" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: calibration program
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Thanks for your information about that.
Do you mean that all i have to is open("/dev/ts"),then read
calibrated data from read()??
Does it do a calibration loop for assabet in kernel driver??

Thanks,

			Chester

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Seger, Justin M wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Do you mean that it will set calibrated data back to driver??
> > What's is major and minor??
> > 
> > 				Chester
> 
> I mean that when accessing the device from software (Microwindows for
> example), the
> touchscreen appears to work fine without any calibration software being run.
> 
> 
> Somewhere in one of the many mailing list archives, I was told to create the
> following:
> mknod /dev/ts c 254 34
> mknod /dev/tsraw c 254 18
> 
> As far as I know, the software only uses "/dev/ts".
> 
> NOTE: 254 may or may not be the major number on your system.  It is
> dynamically assigned to the driver.  "cat /proc/devices" and look for the
> line for the touchscreen.  That will give you the correct major number.
> 
> Good luck,
> Justin Seger
> 

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To: "Seger, Justin M" 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: calibration program
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On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Seger, Justin M wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Do you mean that it will set calibrated data back to driver??
> > What's is major and minor??
> > 
> > 				Chester
> 
> I mean that when accessing the device from software (Microwindows for
> example), the
> touchscreen appears to work fine without any calibration software being run.
> 
> 
> Somewhere in one of the many mailing list archives, I was told to create the
> following:
> mknod /dev/ts c 254 34
> mknod /dev/tsraw c 254 18
> 
> As far as I know, the software only uses "/dev/ts".
> 
> NOTE: 254 may or may not be the major number on your system.  It is
> dynamically assigned to the driver.  "cat /proc/devices" and look for the
> line for the touchscreen.  That will give you the correct major number.
> 
> Good luck,
> Justin Seger
> 
Ok,thanks your help.
Attachment file is my test file for read some data from touch-panel,
but when run this program on assabet ,it say:

$./mytest
Opening touch panel..
Reading touch panel..

Unknown output type (FE00)
Unknown output type (FE00)
Unknown output type (FE00)
Unknown output type (FE00)
$ cat /proc/device

128 ptm
136 pts
162 raw
253 pcmcia
254 sa1100-ts

Block devices:
1 ramdisk
3 ide0

$ ls -l /dev/sa1100-ts
crw-r--r-- 	1 root	root	254,0  Jan 1 00:03 /dev/sa1100-ts

Is my test code wrong??
(using linux-2.4.0-test5-rmk1-np1)

Thanks,

					Chester


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Aug 20 13:07:33 2000
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From: "Justin Seger" 
To: , "Seger, Justin M" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: calibration program
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 07:07:29 -0400
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> -----Original Message-----
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Seger, Justin M wrote:
>
> > Somewhere in one of the many mailing list archives, I was told
> to create the
> > following:
> > mknod /dev/ts c 254 34
> > mknod /dev/tsraw c 254 18
> >
> > As far as I know, the software only uses "/dev/ts".
> >
> > NOTE: 254 may or may not be the major number on your system.  It is
> > dynamically assigned to the driver.  "cat /proc/devices" and
> look for the
> > line for the touchscreen.  That will give you the correct major number.
> >
> >
> Ok,thanks your help.
> Attachment file is my test file for read some data from touch-panel,
> but when run this program on assabet ,it say:
>
> $./mytest
> Opening touch panel..
> Reading touch panel..
>
> Unknown output type (FE00)
> Unknown output type (FE00)
> Unknown output type (FE00)
> Unknown output type (FE00)
> $ cat /proc/device
>
> 128 ptm
> 136 pts
> 162 raw
> 253 pcmcia
> 254 sa1100-ts
>
> Block devices:
> 1 ramdisk
> 3 ide0
>
> $ ls -l /dev/sa1100-ts
> crw-r--r-- 	1 root	root	254,0  Jan 1 00:03 /dev/sa1100-ts
>
> Is my test code wrong??
> (using linux-2.4.0-test5-rmk1-np1)
>
> Thanks,
>
> 					Chester
>

Your code is probably fine, however your minor number is wrong.  Try using a
minor number
of '34'.  I'm not sure why that number is used, but it seems to work.

Good luck,
Justin

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug 21 06:29:12 2000
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To: Justin Seger 
cc: chester@linux.org.tw, "Seger, Justin M" ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl, greg@censoft.com
Subject: RE: calibration program
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> > 253 pcmcia
> > 254 sa1100-ts
> >
> > Block devices:
> > 1 ramdisk
> > 3 ide0
> >
> > $ ls -l /dev/sa1100-ts
> > crw-r--r-- 	1 root	root	254,0  Jan 1 00:03 /dev/sa1100-ts
> >
> 
> Your code is probably fine, however your minor number is wrong.  Try using a
> minor number
> of '34'.  I'm not sure why that number is used, but it seems to work.
> 
> Good luck,
> Justin
> 
Ya,you are right.I make a wrong minor number.
However,i still get confuse when i test use  attachment code.
it say,when i touch panel :
----------
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 0
Pen Up

------
Why data[0] and data[1] are always -1,it's not boundry value on
screen.Also i saw microwindows/src/mou_ads.c ,it has same result.
Could anyone explain this??

Thanks,

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug 21 08:23:55 2000
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To: chester@linux.org.tw
cc: Justin Seger ,
        "Seger, Justin M" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl,
        greg@censoft.com
Subject: RE: calibration program
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> > >
> > > $ ls -l /dev/sa1100-ts
> > > crw-r--r-- 	1 root	root	254,0  Jan 1 00:03 /dev/sa1100-ts
> > >
> > 
> > Your code is probably fine, however your minor number is wrong.  Try using a
> > minor number
> > of '34'.  I'm not sure why that number is used, but it seems to work.
> > 
> > Good luck,
> > Justin
> > 
> Ya,you are right.I make a wrong minor number.
> However,i still get confuse when i test use  attachment code.
> it say,when i touch panel :
> ----------
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 10
> X is -1,Y is -1,Pressure is 0
> Pen Up
> 
> ------
> Why data[0] and data[1] are always -1,it's not boundry value on
> screen.Also i saw microwindows/src/mou_ads.c ,it has same result.
> Could anyone explain this??
> 
> Thanks,
> 

Sorry,is my fault.
The kernel driver set g_x and g_y equal -1,and it will catch the 
first incoming data when touch LCD.
Why grab the pen-down point instead of pen-up point??



					Chester

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 02:36:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:33:46 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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Subject: flat panel driving
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JDB/Erik,

I have several questions about your LCD/LART combo I am hoping you can
help me with. 

I work at a display company and we are developing high resolution
displays based on a new technology called e ink (or microencapsulated
electrophoretics). We are also developing products based around these
displays, and I would like to use linux on SA to drive the displays.
Admittedly, I am not a serious programmer and have not done any kernel
hacking, but I have been reading the sources and include files on the
framebuffer driver from the CVS at handhelds.org. My experience is
generally in hardware and code for small microcontrollers and DSPs, but
I have written userland programs for linux and also read through "Linux
Device Drivers".

My questions for you are:

- Did you program the SA in assembly to do your LCD demo, or were you
using linux?

- If you were using linux, were you using the DMA/LCD controller on the
SA, or just bit banging IO pins. You could do both with the low speed
connector.

- Were you using the fb driver?

- Were you using the X server, or some other windowing environment, or
maybe just doing a mem copy into the framebuffer?

- If you were using the fb driver, what files did you modify to work
with your specific LCD? I feel like if I were programming the SA in
assembly I would know how to set up the registers of the LCD controller
to support any LCD I wanted, but I don't have a good feeling of how to
setup the LCD controller hardware in linux.

This may also be useful information for other people setting up
different LCDs for the LART. I am hoping to figure out how to get
linux/LART to work with a number of passive and active panels (like
whatever is on sale at http://www.flat-panel.com/), and I would make
those drivers available to the LART community.

Maybe you could just give me some hints on where to look, or maybe send
me some of the code you used in your LCD demo. Thanks for the help guys!

-Holly Gates
 Hardware Engineer
 E Ink Corp.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 07:15:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yan Zhao 
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hi,all

   I made a system based on SA-1110. Now I can
download blob(1.0.8) to flashmemory on my target board
through JTAG port of SA-1110. While download finished,
the blob can boot my board up and I can see the
massages that blob pump out on my terminal. but when I
interrupted autoboot proceess by hitting a key, I
can't run any command through blob command line. In
fact when I type any two characters in my terminal,
the blob always says "Unknown command XX", but if I
type three or more characters, the system goes crash. 

  There are my questions :
  
  1. Now blob can boot up successfully, can I say the
SDRAM on the board worked normally? Does blob can work
without RAM(DRAM or SDRAM)?
  2. How to explain the situation I mentioned above?

Best regards,

Zhao Yan

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 14:21:32 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: hgates@eink.com
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: flat panel driving
In-Reply-To: <39A31BEA.5BCB2295@eink.com>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 23 Aug 2000 14:20:19 +0100 (MDT)
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:33:46 -0400, Holly Gates wrote:
> I have several questions about your LCD/LART combo I am hoping you can
> help me with. 
> 
> I work at a display company and we are developing high resolution
> displays based on a new technology called e ink (or microencapsulated
> electrophoretics). We are also developing products based around these
> displays, and I would like to use linux on SA to drive the displays.

That would be cool!

> Admittedly, I am not a serious programmer and have not done any kernel
> hacking, but I have been reading the sources and include files on the
> framebuffer driver from the CVS at handhelds.org. My experience is
> generally in hardware and code for small microcontrollers and DSPs, but
> I have written userland programs for linux and also read through "Linux
> Device Drivers".

Very good book. It's a bit outdated, but the principles are still valid.

> My questions for you are:
> 
> - Did you program the SA in assembly to do your LCD demo, or were you
> using linux?

Linux.

> - If you were using linux, were you using the DMA/LCD controller on the
> SA, or just bit banging IO pins. You could do both with the low speed
> connector.

The LCD controller. Of course you can do bitbanging, but the LCD
controller is much easier.

> - Were you using the fb driver?

Yes.

> - Were you using the X server, or some other windowing environment, or
> maybe just doing a mem copy into the framebuffer?

We mmap()-ed the framebuffer device (/dev/fb) and copied the contents into
the framebuffer. We never tried X. BTW, Jim Gettys new framebuffer X
server in XFree86 4.0.1 is very nice: he slimmed it down to 600K code.

> - If you were using the fb driver, what files did you modify to work
> with your specific LCD? I feel like if I were programming the SA in
> assembly I would know how to set up the registers of the LCD controller
> to support any LCD I wanted, but I don't have a good feeling of how to
> setup the LCD controller hardware in linux.

We just hacked drivers/video/sa1100fb.c to fit our need. We had to change
just a couple of lines to get it running with our LCDs. 

Linux-2.4.0-test6-rmk5-np1 contains an updated SA1100 framebuffer driver.
It's much easier to change it to your needs. Have a look at
Documentation/fb/sa1100fb.txt for the details. 

> This may also be useful information for other people setting up
> different LCDs for the LART. I am hoping to figure out how to get
> linux/LART to work with a number of passive and active panels (like
> whatever is on sale at http://www.flat-panel.com/), and I would make
> those drivers available to the LART community.

Passive displays should be very easy to configure with the new driver,
active displays need a little bit more work.

> Maybe you could just give me some hints on where to look, or maybe send
> me some of the code you used in your LCD demo. Thanks for the help guys!

Ehm, JDB?


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 14:30:41 2000
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On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:14:17 -0700 (PDT), Yan Zhao wrote:
>    I made a system based on SA-1110. Now I can
> download blob(1.0.8) to flashmemory on my target board
> through JTAG port of SA-1110. While download finished,
> the blob can boot my board up and I can see the
> massages that blob pump out on my terminal. but when I
> interrupted autoboot proceess by hitting a key, I
> can't run any command through blob command line. In
> fact when I type any two characters in my terminal,
> the blob always says "Unknown command XX", but if I
> type three or more characters, the system goes crash. 
> 
>   There are my questions :
>   
>   1. Now blob can boot up successfully, can I say the
> SDRAM on the board worked normally? Does blob can work
> without RAM(DRAM or SDRAM)?

Depends. Blob-1.0.8-pre2 can work with SDRAM, but only when configured for
the Intel Assabet (--with-board=assabet). But watch out: if you configure
for Assabet, the SDRAM timings might still be wrong for your board! Check
the setup in src/start.S

>   2. How to explain the situation I mentioned above?

Some wild guesses:

- SDRAM timing problems
- CPU core voltage is not high enough (this can look like memory problems)
- Wrong serial setup (like 9600 7N2 instead of 9600 8N1)
- Your serial cable is broken (very unlikely)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 14:47:34 2000
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Subject: Obtaining a LART  PCB Board?
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Hi, All I'm new to this Mailing List, So please excuse my ignorance. Any 
ways with that said i have a few question for you guys.

#1. I was wondering it there is a company or an individual that is selling 
or producing either Kits or an etched PCB board for the LART and the Addon?

#2. Also how would i solder the components, Does it require a Micro-solder  ?

Thanks you for you time ,






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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 15:16:06 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:15:43 +0200
To: Yan Zhao 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 07:14 +0200 23-08-2000, Yan Zhao wrote:
>  1. Now blob can boot up successfully, can I say the
>SDRAM on the board worked normally?

Not necessarily.

> Does blob can work
>without RAM(DRAM or SDRAM)?

The first part of BLOB is entirely done in assembly, and uses no RAM. When
it prints its copyright string, it is in C and it uses DRAM for stack
space. Having 16 registers buys you only so much ;-).

Try downclocking your SDRAM and see if the problem goes away.

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 15:38:03 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:37:53 +0200
To: Holly Gates 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: flat panel driving
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 02:33 +0200 23-08-2000, Holly Gates wrote:
>My questions for you are:
>
>- Did you program the SA in assembly to do your LCD demo, or were you
>using linux?

We've used the fb driver all the way. It's pretty simple; all you need to
hack is in drivers/video/sa1100fb.c

>- If you were using the fb driver, what files did you modify to work
>with your specific LCD? I feel like if I were programming the SA in
>assembly I would know how to set up the registers of the LCD controller
>to support any LCD I wanted, but I don't have a good feeling of how to
>setup the LCD controller hardware in linux.

Oh, but you *can* bit-bang the registers if you feel like it ;-). The
function sa1100fb_activate_var allows every arch to fill in a copy of the
lccr* registers. Do a grep for LART in drivers/video/sa1100fb.c for an
example how it works.

[Personally I think that this is a somewhat braindead approach: the values
should IMHO be defined per panel type and not per arch. But hey, I haven't
submitted a patch for sa1100fb.c in over ten months so I really have no leg
to stand on ;-)]

>Maybe you could just give me some hints on where to look, or maybe send
>me some of the code you used in your LCD demo. Thanks for the help guys!

I see Erik gave you some pointers for kernelspace. The attached program
opens a fb device (hardcoded to /dev/fb0), reads the palette, sets the
palette to a grayramp and copies data from stdin to the fbdev. It assumes a
4-bit grayscale LCD and does no checks on the size of the input data.

Another way of getting your e-ink devices supported is sending us some
samples & docs, of course ;-)

HTH,

JDB.

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Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 15:57:44 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: K J 
Subject: LART/PCMCIA
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Hello everyone,

I was wondering if someone would make a LART for me. 
I don't have the tech knowledge to build one from the
diagrams.  Sorry, I am only a software engineer :)

I want a LART with PCMCIA and sound.

Actually, before I ask someone to make one I should
ask - Is a the LART powerful enough to play mp3?

Thank you



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          __ \       poonga20@yahoo.com
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 16:14:49 2000
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From: Holly Gates 
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Thanks very much for your advice and code JDB and Erik.

> Another way of getting your e-ink devices supported is sending us some
> samples & docs, of course ;-)

Our high resolution devices don't actually exist yet, but when they
do...
You can see some of our low resolution devices at http://www.eink.com

Thanks again,
-Holly
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:56:23 -0700 (PDT), K J wrote:
> I was wondering if someone would make a LART for me. 
> I don't have the tech knowledge to build one from the
> diagrams.  Sorry, I am only a software engineer :)
> 
> I want a LART with PCMCIA and sound.

I don't think there are readily build LARTs for sale.

If you're a software guy, you might be better of with the Compaq iPaq
handheld computer. It's based around (almost) the same CPU as the LART,
and also capable of running Linux, although it comes with *cough*
Microsoft *cough* PocketPC *cough* (the next incarnation of the great
failure called Windows CE). Add a PCMCIA expansion sleeve and you're set.
The nice thing is that it is available, although not in large quantities.
Have a look at http://www.handhelds.org/ .

> Actually, before I ask someone to make one I should
> ask - Is a the LART powerful enough to play mp3?

Oh sure, but you have to look for a proper MP3 player that doesn't use
floating point (the StrongARM doesn't have a floating point unit). Splay
and madplay work perfectly well.


Erik

-- 
In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they 
are different -- Larry McVoy



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 18:31:46 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:26:43 -0500
From: Michael Vanecek 
Subject: Re: Obtaining a LART  PCB Board?
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Currently it's largely a self-serve or cooperative type setup. Many
users on this list have obtained their own pcb's, purchased the
necessary components and went solder crazy. Those less skilled on the
solder end of things have gathered together in at least two loose groups
to pool their resources in having the pcb's made and the components
assembled by a third-party manufacturer. The more participants, the
cheaper the assemblies will be. Currently, the loose group I "belong to"
is waiting for the Rev 4 version to be released along with peripherals
like the memory add-on boards, the eth card, etc... Once they've been
certified as "stable" by the core team and released in Gerber format,
we'll take the next step and have some units made and start working on
God knows how many different applications we've got planned for our
particular Lart systems. I've seen ideas from MP3 (and hopefully Vorb)
players to portable computers to device controllers and autonomous
controllers. Doug is coordinating one group (right?) and I think Greg is
a loose coordinator for another group. I hope that hasn't changed, but
there may be others too - you're contribution would be to commit to
however many Larts you desire for whatever "cooperative" you find.
Prices will be variable and depend on the total number of Larts a group
can get commitments for. If you estimate high and budget for it, you
should be safe. Otherwise, you can do it all yourself from scrounging
the parts to having your own pcb's made - but that will be much more
expensive...

Mike

Kevin Fowlks wrote:
> 
> Hi, All I'm new to this Mailing List, So please excuse my ignorance. Any
> ways with that said i have a few question for you guys.
> 
> #1. I was wondering it there is a company or an individual that is selling
> or producing either Kits or an etched PCB board for the LART and the Addon?
> 
> #2. Also how would i solder the components, Does it require a Micro-solder  ?
> 
> Thanks you for you time ,
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 20:07:11 2000
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This may be old news to some of the Lart developers, but since many of
them are working on portable MP3 players, and since the holders of the
MP3 patents can any may start charging royalties not only for music in
mp3 format but also for players of mp3 files, I pass this on to the list
too. Vorbis is a GPL and patent-free alternative to MP3 that looks very
promising and is under funded development too (ie - things are moving
along quickly because of full-time developers). It's not clear as to
whether they'll be able to challenge mp3's already wide distribution
base, but given licensing issues, vob will certainly be a major player
in distributed audio. Here is their website:

http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html

XMMS, IceCast and WinAmp are a few of the apps that are or will be able
to play vob files...

Mike

Varek wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I wasn't sure if this was too OT for the list or not so I'm just asking
> you: I don't recognize your reference to "Vorb".  What is it?  Could you
> send me a link to read?
> 
> Thanx much...
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 20:11:09 2000
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Thanks for your fast response it really helped..

I guess. my next question is what is the ext. cost of a LART with add on
I'm willing to spend around  US $200.00  give or take some more. Also who
do i need to get in touch with in order to commit to such an order ? Also what
is the time line for release of the next stable LART release of rev 4 that 
you mentioned.
Any information that you have will be much appreciated..

Thanks ...





>Currently it's largely a self-serve or cooperative type setup. Many
>users on this list have obtained their own pcb's, purchased the
>necessary components and went solder crazy. Those less skilled on the
>solder end of things have gathered together in at least two loose groups
>to pool their resources in having the pcb's made and the components
>assembled by a third-party manufacturer. The more participants, the
>cheaper the assemblies will be. Currently, the loose group I "belong to"
>is waiting for the Rev 4 version to be released along with peripherals
>like the memory add-on boards, the eth card, etc... Once they've been
>certified as "stable" by the core team and released in Gerber format,
>we'll take the next step and have some units made and start working on
>God knows how many different applications we've got planned for our
>particular Lart systems. I've seen ideas from MP3 (and hopefully Vorb)
>players to portable computers to device controllers and autonomous
>controllers. Doug is coordinating one group (right?) and I think Greg is
>a loose coordinator for another group. I hope that hasn't changed, but
>there may be others too - you're contribution would be to commit to
>however many Larts you desire for whatever "cooperative" you find.
>Prices will be variable and depend on the total number of Larts a group
>can get commitments for. If you estimate high and budget for it, you
>should be safe. Otherwise, you can do it all yourself from scrounging
>the parts to having your own pcb's made - but that will be much more
>expensive...
>
>Mike
>
>Kevin Fowlks wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All I'm new to this Mailing List, So please excuse my ignorance. Any
> > ways with that said i have a few question for you guys.
> >
> > #1. I was wondering it there is a company or an individual that is selling
> > or producing either Kits or an etched PCB board for the LART and the Addon?
> >
> > #2. Also how would i solder the components, Does it require a 
> Micro-solder  ?
> >
> > Thanks you for you time ,
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

Kevin Fowlks
Programmer Analyst
Center for Remote Sensing and GIS
Michigan State University
(517)-432-9808

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 20:56:11 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:54:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gregory Maxwell 
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To: Michael Vanecek 
Cc: Varek , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Obtaining a LART  PCB Board?
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As a heads up for lart deveopers, here is a quick list major of things
that will need to be coded to do vorbis realtime on the strongarm.

1. Fast Fixed point LSP -> LPC -> curve (execute once per 128 or 1024 sample frame)
2. Fast fixed point iDCT.

The rest of the decode process is table lookups.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Michael Vanecek wrote:

> This may be old news to some of the Lart developers, but since many of
> them are working on portable MP3 players, and since the holders of the
> MP3 patents can any may start charging royalties not only for music in
> mp3 format but also for players of mp3 files, I pass this on to the list
> too. Vorbis is a GPL and patent-free alternative to MP3 that looks very
> promising and is under funded development too (ie - things are moving
> along quickly because of full-time developers). It's not clear as to
> whether they'll be able to challenge mp3's already wide distribution
> base, but given licensing issues, vob will certainly be a major player
> in distributed audio. Here is their website:

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 21:33:45 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:33:15 +0200
To: Gregory Maxwell 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Obtaining a LART  PCB Board?
Cc: Michael Vanecek , Varek ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 20:54 +0200 23-08-2000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>As a heads up for lart deveopers, here is a quick list major of things
>that will need to be coded to do vorbis realtime on the strongarm.
>
>1. Fast Fixed point LSP -> LPC -> curve (execute once per 128 or 1024
>sample frame)
>2. Fast fixed point iDCT.

What size ? 1D or 2D ?

>The rest of the decode process is table lookups.

How many tables, what kind of locality ? The data cache is only 8k, and a
cache miss costs the same as 60 insns. On the other hand the SA can do
explicit prefetch.

JD 'I guess I should get the source if I have this many questions' B.

--
If you see a long line of rats streaming off of a ship, the correct
assumption is *not* "gosh, I bet that's a real nice boat now that those
rats are gone".
                              -- Mike Sphar in the Monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 22:09:06 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:08:33 +0200
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: Doug Moreen  (by way of J.D. Bakker)
Subject: Re: Obtaining a LART PCB Board?
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I'm still alive, and interested in getting out rev 4 lart systems. though I'm
one of the lucky people here who are in the midst of the Montana fire
complexes.
As fast as the lart group is going, I don't think this should affect the
production, when the rev 4 boards are ready for prime time. In any case
I've got
a fab shop on the coast that is open hardware friendly, who has gotten some
great recommendations from some smaller open hardware projects, that I've
talked
with.

anybody who wants to see the progress on the fires can look at these web
sites;

http://www.osei.noaa.gov/Events/Fires/

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire

I'm located about three miles northwest of the skalhaho complex, but my
property is well secured, debrushed, de-treed and getting muddy from all the
water I've thrown at it.

If the finalized rev 4 gerbers are released before this emergency is over then
I'll have to pass on getting them produced. If it is after this then I'd be
happy to get them made.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> Currently it's largely a self-serve or cooperative type setup. Many
> users on this list have obtained their own pcb's, purchased the
> necessary components and went solder crazy. Those less skilled on the
> solder end of things have gathered together in at least two loose groups
> to pool their resources in having the pcb's made and the components
> assembled by a third-party manufacturer. The more participants, the
> cheaper the assemblies will be. Currently, the loose group I "belong to"
> is waiting for the Rev 4 version to be released along with peripherals
> like the memory add-on boards, the eth card, etc... Once they've been
> certified as "stable" by the core team and released in Gerber format,
> we'll take the next step and have some units made and start working on
> God knows how many different applications we've got planned for our
> particular Lart systems. I've seen ideas from MP3 (and hopefully Vorb)
> players to portable computers to device controllers and autonomous
> controllers. Doug is coordinating one group (right?) and I think Greg is
> a loose coordinator for another group. I hope that hasn't changed, but
> there may be others too - you're contribution would be to commit to
> however many Larts you desire for whatever "cooperative" you find.
> Prices will be variable and depend on the total number of Larts a group
> can get commitments for. If you estimate high and budget for it, you
> should be safe. Otherwise, you can do it all yourself from scrounging
> the parts to having your own pcb's made - but that will be much more
> expensive...
>
> Mike
>
> Kevin Fowlks wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All I'm new to this Mailing List, So please excuse my ignorance. Any
> > ways with that said i have a few question for you guys.
> >
> > #1. I was wondering it there is a company or an individual that is selling
> > or producing either Kits or an etched PCB board for the LART and the Addon?
> >
> > #2. Also how would i solder the components, Does it require a
>Micro-solder  ?
> >
> > Thanks you for you time ,
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
--
Doug Moreen
sales@allboot.com
allboot@onewest.net
AllBoot.Com
http://www.allboot.com
814 Priscilla Way
Hamilton, MT 59840
406-375-0566


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Aug 23 23:01:42 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gregory Maxwell 
X-Sender: greg@localhost.localdomain
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: Michael Vanecek , Varek ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Obtaining a LART  PCB Board?
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 20:54 +0200 23-08-2000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> >As a heads up for lart deveopers, here is a quick list major of things
> >that will need to be coded to do vorbis realtime on the strongarm.
> >
> >1. Fast Fixed point LSP -> LPC -> curve (execute once per 128 or 1024
> >sample frame)
> >2. Fast fixed point iDCT.
> 
> What size ? 1D or 2D ?

It's not fixed. Currently 128samples and 1024 samples are used by the
encoder.  1d.

The LPC is 12 or 30 order in the current modes. 
 
> >The rest of the decode process is table lookups.
> 
> How many tables, what kind of locality ? The data cache is only 8k, and a
> cache miss costs the same as 60 insns. On the other hand the SA can do
> explicit prefetch.

A current mode_a will uses 16 codebooks (it's not fixed, I'm using A as an
example).  They are transmitted with the file.

The books have the following sizes:

LSP books:
*2197 rows 3 cols of 6bit data (should be unquantized to 24bit using a scale)
2744 rows 3 cols of 5bit data (..)

Residue codebooks:
*81 rows 4 cols of 2bit data (..)
*625 rows 4 cols of 3bit data (..)
*2401 rows 4 cols of 3bit data (..)
*81 rows 2 cols of 4bit data (..)
*529 rows 2 cols of 7bit data (..)
81 rows 4 cols of 2bit data (..)
81 rows 4 cols of 2bit data (..)
625 rows 4 cols of 3bit data (..)
625 rows 4 cols of 3bit data (..)
2401 rows 4 cols of 3 bit data (..)
2401 rows 4 cols of 3 bit data (..)
121 rows 2 cols of 4 bit data (..)
225 rows 2 cols of 5 bit data (..)
529 rows 2 cols of 7 bit data (..)

*starred lines are for short blocks. Perhaps it might make sence to
consider the two blocktypes cache foot print seperatly.
 
> JD 'I guess I should get the source if I have this many questions' B.

Sounds good. I think the code is very clean and easy to read. But I've
spent quite a bit time looking at in in the last... Wow, almost a year. :P

It would be good to get people looking at this on small systems. I don't
think Monty has set and real limits on codebook size, block sizes,
etc... 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 24 02:07:41 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yan Zhao 
Subject: Re: 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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--- "J.D. Bakker" 
wrote:
> At 07:14 +0200 23-08-2000, Yan Zhao wrote:
> >  1. Now blob can boot up successfully, can I say
> the
> >SDRAM on the board worked normally?
> 
> Not necessarily.
> 
> > Does blob can work
> >without RAM(DRAM or SDRAM)?
> 
> The first part of BLOB is entirely done in assembly,
> and uses no RAM. When
> it prints its copyright string, it is in C and it
> uses DRAM for stack
> space. Having 16 registers buys you only so much
> ;-).
Yes. I can see the copyright strings and I can enter
blob command line interface, and now, I could run
"help","status" and other commands. But there should
be someting wrong over there, for the status command
always return below message to me:
Bank Size: 0xFFFFFFFF
Baud Speed: (unkown speed)
Kernel size: (very huge number of bytes)
Image size: (very huge number of bytes)

In fact I have 16MB SDRAM(two W986416CH chips, 32 bit
data bus), and I have tested SDRAM by writing "0x55AA"
to it and reading back to verify. 

> 
> Try downclocking your SDRAM and see if the problem
> goes away.
Ok, thanks, I will adjust SDRAM configuration and
downclock Core-clock.

Thanks to JDB and Erik, :-)
> 
> JDB.
> 
> --
> Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl
> 
> The lazy man's proverb:
>     'There's no business like slow business !'
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 24 17:31:56 2000
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From: "Chang-Yl Lee" 
To: 
Subject: Writing a byte to physical address.
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:31:14 +0900
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 24 17:48:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:48:13 +0200
To: "Chang-Yl Lee" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Writing a byte to physical address.
Cc: 
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--============_-1244990399==_============
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At 17:31 +0200 24-08-2000, Chang-Yl Lee wrote:
>Hi all.
>I have made test board(SA-1110) and now I'm trying to turn on 8 LEDs under
>linux platform(LART).
>Tyey are connected at 0x10000040 ( memory mapped I/O).
>But I don't know how to control them.
>Please show me how to control physical memory address.
>Please...

From the kernel or from userland ?

If you're trying to do it from the kernel, you should make sure that they
are mapped. The best way is to add a mapping in arch/arm/mm/mm-sa1100.c

Form userspace it's easy by mmapping /dev/mem. See the attached program for
a quik & dirty example.

JDB.

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--
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug 28 03:53:59 2000
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> >From the kernel or from userland ?
> 
> If you're trying to do it from the kernel, you should make sure that they
> are mapped. The best way is to add a mapping in arch/arm/mm/mm-sa1100.c
> 
> Form userspace it's easy by mmapping /dev/mem. See the attached program for
> a quik & dirty example.
> 
> JDB.

-------------------
Thank you very much..
your example is very helpful for me!! :-).
Now I'm trying to make device driver for LEDs.
As you adviced me, I added this line.
-----------
static struct map_desc default_io_desc[] __initdata = {
  { 0xd0000040, 0x10000040, 0x00000010, DOMAIN_IO, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, /* LED   */
  SA1100_STD_IO_MAPPING
};
------------
My question is, How to handle this "io_desc structrue" ?
I believe that this structure is initialized at "fixup_sa1100" function in  "arch/arm/kernel/arch.c".
But I don't know how to access this structure and handle it.
My goal is making network device driver and understanding it.
Any advices are helpful to me.
I hope your simple example such as before.
Best Regards.

Chang Lee.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug 28 16:16:55 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:12:53 +0200
To: "Chang-Yl Lee" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Writing a byte to physical address.
Cc: "lart" 
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At 03:53 +0200 28-08-2000, Chang-Yl Lee wrote:
>> >From the kernel or from userland ?
>>
>> If you're trying to do it from the kernel, you should make sure that they
>> are mapped. The best way is to add a mapping in arch/arm/mm/mm-sa1100.c
>-------------------
>Thank you very much..
>your example is very helpful for me!! :-).
>Now I'm trying to make device driver for LEDs.
>As you adviced me, I added this line.
>-----------
>static struct map_desc default_io_desc[] __initdata = {
>  { 0xd0000040, 0x10000040, 0x00000010, DOMAIN_IO, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, /* LED   */
>  SA1100_STD_IO_MAPPING
>};
>------------

Erm, those addresses should be page aligned, ie:

{ 0xd0000000, 0x10000000, 0x000001000, ....

>My question is, How to handle this "io_desc structrue" ?
>I believe that this structure is initialized at "fixup_sa1100" function in
>"arch/arm/kernel/arch.c".
>But I don't know how to access this structure and handle it.

You don't need to; the kernel will create physical->virtual mappings. Once
the mappings are in place (reasonably early in the boot process IIRC), you
can just access the hardware through the virtual address, like:

#define MY_LED_ADDRESS (*((volatile unsigned int) 0xd0000040))

/* Turn the LED on */

MY_LED_ADDRESS = 1;

>My goal is making network device driver and understanding it.
>Any advices are helpful to me.

It might be a good idea to read a bit more about the kernel and
programming. See
http://www.samba.org/~netfilter/kernel-hacking-HOWTO/kernel-hacking-HOWTO.html ,
and get a copy of Linux Device Drivers by Alessandro Rubini. Although it
covers older kernels, the general principles still apply.

JDB.

--
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The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Aug 28 16:56:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:55:46 +0200
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At 16:12 +0200 28-08-2000, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>#define MY_LED_ADDRESS (*((volatile unsigned int) 0xd0000040))

...and that should obviously be

#define MY_LED_ADDRESS (*((volatile unsigned int *) 0xd0000040))

JD 'no substitute for proofreading' B.

--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Aug 29 18:55:15 2000
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From: j j 
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Does anyone have a ksb bill of materials, hopefully
with chip sizes?
Thanks,
Joe O'Donnell


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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: SA1110 chips
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:28:39 GMT
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I don't want to get any LART PCBs made until I can get a couple of SA1110 
chips. They seem very diificult to get hold of here in the UK. Can anyone 
suggest a supplier here or in Europe.

If I do get some boards made, is anyone else interested? I'll use the latest 
design files.

Leon
--
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Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835





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On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Leon Heller wrote:

> I don't want to get any LART PCBs made until I can get a couple of SA1110 
> chips. They seem very diificult to get hold of here in the UK. Can anyone 
> suggest a supplier here or in Europe.

Bytech seem happy to give them to my previous employer. I've not tried
from here. 

> If I do get some boards made, is anyone else interested? I'll use the latest 
> design files.

Maybe. What are you planning to put on the board? (Soory, I can't see the
web from here - is there a Lart design already published using the 1110?)

Steve


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On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:28:39 GMT, Leon Heller wrote:
> I don't want to get any LART PCBs made until I can get a couple of SA1110 
> chips. They seem very diificult to get hold of here in the UK. Can anyone 
> suggest a supplier here or in Europe.

The LART uses an SA1100, not an SA1110.


Erik

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I didn't know VIm could be used as an e-mail client.... ;)

-Randy Glenn
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of Barry Callahan
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 11:37 AM
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: SA1110 chips


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Aug 31 22:50:29 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:44:14 +0200
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>I don't want to get any LART PCBs made until I can get a couple of SA1110
>chips. They seem very diificult to get hold of here in the UK. Can anyone
>suggest a supplier here or in Europe.

I suppose you mean the '1100, right ? It's not 'in Europe', but both
http://www.arrow.com/ and http://www.avnetmarshall.com/ have them in stock,
even the fastest (DF) speed grade.

>If I do get some boards made, is anyone else interested? I'll use the latest
>design files.

Get *all* of your components before having boards made. PCBs
have quite reliable delivery times; semiconductors and other parts are very
hard to get these days.

Besides, there are some other initiatives to get boards made, who are
mainly waiting for the rev4 designs. It may be cheaper and faster to join
them.

JDB
[who is picking up protos of LART rev4 and KSB rev2 tomorrow]

--
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http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/


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auth 6da02b63 subscribe lart songten@myrealbox.com


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  1 13:32:20 2000
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:32:26 +0800
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: CONFIG_ANGELBOOT problem
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did anybody find that the kernel option, CONFIG_ANGELBOOT - "Load 
kernel using Angel Debug Monitor", does not function in 
/arch/arm/boot/compressed/head.S:

#ifdef CONFIG_ANGELBOOT
		/*
		 * Booting from Angel - need to enter SVC mode and 
disable
		 * FIQs/IRQs (numeric definitions from angel arm.h 
source)
		 */
		mov	r0, #0x17		@ angel_SWIreason_EnterSVC
		swi	0x123456		@ angel_SWI_ARM
		mrs	r0, cpsr		@ turn off interrupts to
		orr	r0, r0, #0xc0		@ prevent angel from 
running
		msr	cpsr_c, r0

		/*
		 * Note that some cache flushing and other stuff may
		 * be needed here - is there an Angel SWI call for 
this?
		 */
#endif

that will cause blob fails to boot linux.

somebody tell me how to remove the probles, pls!



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  1 14:27:05 2000
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: steve@avalon.whirlygig.co.uk
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: SA1110 chips
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:26:36 GMT
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>>
>Maybe. What are you planning to put on the board? (Soory, I can't see the
>web from here - is there a Lart design already published using the 1110?)

Sorry, I meant the SA1100.


Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  1 17:34:12 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:34:52 -0400
From: Justin Seger 
Subject: RE: CONFIG_ANGELBOOT problem
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> -----Original Message-----
> did anybody find that the kernel option, CONFIG_ANGELBOOT - "Load
> kernel using Angel Debug Monitor", does not function in
> /arch/arm/boot/compressed/head.S:
>
>
> that will cause blob fails to boot linux.
>
> somebody tell me how to remove the probles, pls!
>

That is exactly why the option was added.  You used to only be able to boot
the
kernel using the Angel Debug Monitor by default.  This option was added so
that
you can disable the angel support and booth with blob and other bootloaders.

Simply disable CONFIG_ANGELBOOT (listed as Load Using Angel Debug Monitor in
menuconfig).

Justin

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  1 20:40:58 2000
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yes, i am interested in sharing the cost
of getting some lart boards.

a short visit to www.pcbexpres.com , shows
that for about $1000 , about 30 boards can
be made if a 3week wait is allowed.

the trick is to layout the ethernet board.
anyone want to share in that job, using
eagle freeware for a single chip addon.

thx

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  1 21:30:32 2000
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:30:25 +0200
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Subject: LART rev4
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Hi all,

It works.

After months of waiting for my components I now have two assembled rev4
LARTs, and I am happy to announce that they function as expected. I'll
release a new hardware distribution ASAP.

JD 'happy happy joy joy' B.
[who sort of has a paper deadline today...]

--
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restful it is to watch the cursor blink.  Close your eyes.  The opinions
stated above are yours.  You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep  2 17:21:45 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:19:10 +1100 (EST)
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Subject: PLEB Photon 2 preview
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	Hi all, I've just finished the structure (details to be finalised
with PCB work) for the PLEB 'Photon v2' board schematics. You can grab
them from ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/awiggins/photon2.pdf	
	I'm interested in geting feedback regarding overall design and
parts selection. Feel free to nit pic at specifics (mind you the CPLD
wiring is not properly done yet).

Photon v2 Features:
	- SA-1100
	- 2 * 16bit Flash (up to 16MB)
	- 2 * 16bit DRAM (up to 16MB)
	- AVR 8bit CPU (Power/Peripheral management + ADC's)
	- 2 * RS-232 Lines (one from SA, one routable from SA/AVR/etc)
	- 4MBit IrDA from SA
	- USB Slave
	- Current sensing of 3v3/VCore, voltage sensing of VBatt and
variable VCore (1.3 - 2 volts)
	- PLEB Daughter-Card Slot's
	- PLEB Side-Card Slot
	- 3-16V supply from either Side/Daughter-Cards and USB slave port

The Daughter-Card and Side-Card are fully buffered I/O slots (the
daughter-card includes Address/Data lines) as well as 4 * 0-3.3v ADC's
(via AVR). All signals (less the ADC's) are 5volt tolerant and the
Daughter-Card can be bus mastered (to facilitate SA-1110 etc). As all the
control lines go through a CPLD arbitary glue logic can be implimented on
the Daughter/Side-Card's and the lines are fully routable.
	If your a little on the technical side please have a look and let
me know if I have any gapping design flaws. A lot of this was done at
unreasonable hours. 
	This board is the steping stone to Photon v3 which will be the
same thing just with SA-1110/SDRAM/Strata Flash's instead and a bigger
CPLD (or FPGA).

	Enjoy, Adam

P.S. The PCB will not be started for a few weeks

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep  2 18:02:14 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: "utility account for group.pleb " ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:59:32 +1100 (EST)
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	I forgot to mention the AVR/CPLD are both in system programable by
the SA1100 :)

	Cheers Adam

On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> 	Hi all, I've just finished the structure (details to be finalised
> with PCB work) for the PLEB 'Photon v2' board schematics. You can grab
> them from ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/awiggins/photon2.pdf	
> 	I'm interested in geting feedback regarding overall design and
> parts selection. Feel free to nit pic at specifics (mind you the CPLD
> wiring is not properly done yet).
> 
> Photon v2 Features:
> 	- SA-1100
> 	- 2 * 16bit Flash (up to 16MB)
> 	- 2 * 16bit DRAM (up to 16MB)
> 	- AVR 8bit CPU (Power/Peripheral management + ADC's)
> 	- 2 * RS-232 Lines (one from SA, one routable from SA/AVR/etc)
> 	- 4MBit IrDA from SA
> 	- USB Slave
> 	- Current sensing of 3v3/VCore, voltage sensing of VBatt and
> variable VCore (1.3 - 2 volts)
> 	- PLEB Daughter-Card Slot's
> 	- PLEB Side-Card Slot
> 	- 3-16V supply from either Side/Daughter-Cards and USB slave port
> 
> The Daughter-Card and Side-Card are fully buffered I/O slots (the
> daughter-card includes Address/Data lines) as well as 4 * 0-3.3v ADC's
> (via AVR). All signals (less the ADC's) are 5volt tolerant and the
> Daughter-Card can be bus mastered (to facilitate SA-1110 etc). As all the
> control lines go through a CPLD arbitary glue logic can be implimented on
> the Daughter/Side-Card's and the lines are fully routable.
> 	If your a little on the technical side please have a look and let
> me know if I have any gapping design flaws. A lot of this was done at
> unreasonable hours. 
> 	This board is the steping stone to Photon v3 which will be the
> same thing just with SA-1110/SDRAM/Strata Flash's instead and a bigger
> CPLD (or FPGA).
> 
> 	Enjoy, Adam
> 
> P.S. The PCB will not be started for a few weeks
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Sep  3 13:00:15 2000
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Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
To: Leon Heller 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: SA-1100 availability
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Search for just  FADES1100

The letters tagged on the end just represent the rated speed and whether
it's got the power management features built in for portable applications.

But you're right...  The 1100 IS becoming hard to find.  Most places I've
been able to find them now have "call for availability" marked on their
online catalog pages.

Barry

> I've tried Avnet's web page, and PartMiner, but I still can't find any 
> SA-1100s! According to the Intel Line Card, the part number is FADES1100DF, 
> which is what I've been searching on.
> 
> Leon
> 
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
> InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
> NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
> Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
> Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
> 
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
> http://profiles.msn.com.
> 
> --
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> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 

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To: Leon Heller , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: SA-1100 availability 
Reply-To: Darryl Okahata 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 03 Sep 2000 09:40:23 EDT."
              
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From: Darryl Okahata 
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Barry Callahan  wrote:

> Search for just  FADES1100
> 
> The letters tagged on the end just represent the rated speed and whether
> it's got the power management features built in for portable applications.
> 
> But you're right...  The 1100 IS becoming hard to find.  Most places I've
> been able to find them now have "call for availability" marked on their
> online catalog pages.

     Arrow's pages still list the FADES1100DF and FADES1100EF as
available, but the DT28F160F3B doesn't seem to be available anywhere.  ;-(

--
	Darryl Okahata
	darrylo@soco.agilent.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or
of the little green men that have been following him all day.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Sep  5 09:11:21 2000
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: SA-1100 availability
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 07:10:50 GMT
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I've just ordered five SA-1100s from Avnet EMG in the UK. They don't 
actually have any, but are getting them from Avnet in the US, who have 
plenty. Price is 36 UK Pounds each.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Sep  5 16:39:20 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:38:07 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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Search for FADES1100 on http://www.findchips.com
Looks like some are in stock at Wyle.

-Holly

Leon Heller wrote:
> 
> I got it right this time. 8-)
> 
> I've tried Avnet's web page, and PartMiner, but I still can't find any
> SA-1100s! According to the Intel Line Card, the part number is FADES1100DF,
> which is what I've been searching on.
> 
> Leon
> 
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
> InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants.,
> NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
> Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
> Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
> 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Sep  7 13:03:30 2000
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl,
        "utility account for group.pleb " 
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:01:01 +1100 (EST)
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	Farnell stock the 15pin I/O Card Connector that you see on a lot
of PCMCIA cards to connect your dongles too (for ethernet, modem's,
etc) but they don't seem to see any matching dongle plug/cables. Also
Berg/FCI don't seem to sell the plug/cables either. Does anyone know where
I can find these plug/cables?

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Sep  7 13:25:23 2000
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On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> 	Farnell stock the 15pin I/O Card Connector that you see on a lot
> of PCMCIA cards to connect your dongles too (for ethernet, modem's,
> etc) but they don't seem to see any matching dongle plug/cables. Also
> Berg/FCI don't seem to sell the plug/cables either. Does anyone know where
> I can find these plug/cables?


I think that AMP are your friend, inasmuch as the cretins can be said to
be anyones friend. If they do turn out to be the only supplier, I'd look
long and hard for alternatives. 


Best of luck, 

Steve the bitter. 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Sep  7 16:21:05 2000
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Huet?= 
To: 
X-Loop: one
Subject: LinuxEmbedded.Com for sale
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:59:21 +0200
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A few weeks ago i announced that i was no longer able to maintain the site
http://linuxembedded.com.
As a result i am looking for a purchaser for the following domain names.

linuxembedded.com, org, net
linux-embedded.com, org, net

linuxembedded.com is well ranked in all the major search engines ( from #1
to #5 ) for keywords,
like linux, embedded, realtime...
and is requested by about 50000 disctinct hosts a month ( see
http://linuxembedded.com/analog )

The package will go to the highest bidder.
The money will be returned to the embedded development community.

Today the highest bid is 12.000 US$.
The auction will be closed September 15th, 2000

Best regards,

Sebastien Huet

************************************************************
If you would like to place an auction please email.
mailto:sebhuet@linuxembedded.com?subject=RE: LinuxEmbedded.Com for sale
************************************************************
If you don't want to be informed anymore about this auction
mailto:linuxemb@linuxembedded.com?subject=removebid
************************************************************



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  8 00:25:22 2000
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To: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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Take a look at RS, from memory they have the full range of PC-Card DIY.

Ben H.

------------------------------------
  BEN HOLLOWAY
  Electrical Engineer
  Research & Applications
  COCHLEAR LTD
  +612 9428 6277
------------------------------------

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep  8 01:34:25 2000
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i have a quote for about $1000 for 10
boards.. is anyone interested in this ?

how about the single port ethernet pcb
i guess it has yet to be done ?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep  9 16:03:01 2000
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>how about the single port ethernet pcb
>i guess it has yet to be done ?

We have an odd bug: the chip only generates interrupts on receive not
transmit. Erik is talking to the driver author; I am doing an ISA board to
connect to the sigle Enet chip (the CS8900 is ISA) to see if the problem is
hardware or software,

JD 'open for other suggestions' B.

--
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                     -- Arthur Kasspe


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 11 23:33:20 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:29:54 +0200
From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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Subject: Low ESR ????
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Excuse me for the dummy question but , what does Low ESR tatalum means
????
Is a simple tantalum capacitor enought ????
Where Can I buy it ???
And once again , there are someone that ordered the Lart PCB ( just the
mainboard ) , i already have the components ... I need just one for now
???
Can someone help me ????

-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 11 23:55:05 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:54:45 +0200
To: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Low ESR ????
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>Excuse me for the dummy question but , what does Low ESR tatalum means
>????

It's a tantalum capacitor with a low equivalent series resistor. See
http://www.avxcorp.com/docs/techinfo/eqtantcp.pdf for more info.

>Is a simple tantalum capacitor enought ????

No. The higher ESR of a regular tantalum cap (in the order of 1 Ohm, as
compared to 0.1 Ohm for a low-ESR version) will most likely cause too high
ripple voltages on the power lines. Also the normal tantalum capacitors
tend to have lower tolerances for current surges.

>Where Can I buy it ???

From http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/plint/LARTdist-README :

* I have had moderate amounts of luck getting components out of
* http://www.avnetmarshall.com ; other possible sources include
* http://www.arrow.com, http://www.ied.pios.com and http://www.wyle.com

Oh and it doesn't help that there is a world shortage of these devices
right now.

HTH,

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Sep 12 23:51:33 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:50:44 -0600
From: Chris Price 
Organization: Montage IT Services
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	Hi;

	I was wondering is a read-only filesystem can be created and then
mounted on a flash memory device.

	So if I have a board with 32mb flash and 32mb ram, could I use all/part
of the 32mb of flash as a read-only /,/usr, bin,... filesystem, and then 
subsequently create ramdisks for places like /tmp and /var?

	I looked at romfs and cramfs, but they both seem to more
for booting from than acting as alive filesystem.


	Any information provided will be greatly appreciated.

	Cheers

	Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 13 05:30:29 2000
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Subject: !Atencion¡ Gana$  y aprende  con el
    Estimado Cybernauta, navegando por este ciberespacio me he encontrado con tu direccion email, aprovecho esta oportunidad de darte a conocer  este proyecto, agradecere me envies algun proyecto que tu tengas , con el fin de potencilizar nuestros trabajos.
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                                            MARKET-2000

Market 2.000 es posiblemente el proyecto con mayor futuro en el ámbito
del comercio electrónico en Internet.   El  Comercio  Electrónico    es la máxima revolución
comercial existente hoy en día, todo el mundo desea"subirse al jet" del comercio electrónico (e-comerce)

El curso enseña todas las técnicas del comercio electrónico que han demostrado ser más efectivas para los profesionales de Internet  Aunque no sepas nada de Internet o comercio electrónico, el curso te enseñará como convertirte en todo un profesional.-

Entre otras muchas cosas en en el Curso Market 2000 aprenderás:

A colocar anuncios que producen tanta curiosidad que a los interesados les surge naturalmente el deseo de solicitar información 
A automatizar tu promoción por Internet de manera que ahorres cientos de horas de trabajo promocional. 
A diseñar cartas de venta ¡ IRRESISTIBLES ! 
A utilizar efectiva y legalmente el correo electrónico, para gener ingresos de inmediato sin caer en el Spam y de una forma totalmente segura y efectiva.  
A encontrar Nichos de Mercado con Miles de Personas interesadas en tu Producto 
A hacer negocios utilizando las páginas de avisos clasificados, algo normalmente imposible para un aficionado y realmente sencillo para un Profesional.  
A ganar $40.5 US Mensuales Fijos! por cada producto Unico vendido por tí.  
A ganar $ 4 US Mensuales Fijos! por cada producto no vendido por tí!!! 
A enviar mensajes de seguimiento a cientos de clientes sin ningún esfuerzo consiguiendo aumentar tus resultados en cientos de veces. 
A llevar cualquier "Negocio Electrónico" con un Enorme Exito. Pues lo aprendido con el Curso Market 2000 puedes aplicarlo a cualquier Negocio Virtual.
.Y muchas cosas más!!!

mailto:market2000@entelchile.net?subject=market-2000

http://micasa.yupi.com/market2000


___________________________________________________________________
Esta es una información sobre un Nuevo Proyecto en Internet, en caso de no interesarle puede borrar su e-mail en mailto:market2000@entelchile.net?Subject=REMOVE-M2 

Si le ha molestado este e-mail le pido las más humildes disculpas. No pretendo molestar mientras realizo mi trabajo, que consiste en dar a conocer este tremendo proyecto.
Muchas Gracias por su Atención!!! 
Bajo el Decreto S.1618 TITULO III aprobado por el 105 Congreso base de las las normativas internacionales sobre SPAM, esta carta no puede ser considerada SPAM mientras incluya una forma de ser removido.
Puedes mandar e-mail a:
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__________________________________________________________________________
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This will permanently remove you from all future e-mailings THANK YOU!!! 



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 13 05:44:24 2000
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To: Chris Price 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Flash Memory as a live read-only filesystem?
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>	I was wondering is a read-only filesystem can be created and then
>mounted on a flash memory device.

The newer kernels have (patches for) the MTR-device; this should be able to
do what you want.

>	So if I have a board with 32mb flash and 32mb ram, could I use all/part
>of the 32mb of flash as a read-only /,/usr, bin,... filesystem, and then
>subsequently create ramdisks for places like /tmp and /var?

Another question is which one is economically most viable. 1MB Flash is a
lot more expensive than 1MB DRAM, so it may make more sense to have more
RAM, less Flash, keep a compressed image in Flash & copy and uncompress
this to a ramdisk upon boot. Of course this point is moot if the board
config is fixed (like, say if you had a Bitsy ;-)).

JDB.

--
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/


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On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:25:24 -0400, market2000@yupimail.com wrote:

[snip]

> Under Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th Congress this letter cannot be
> considered SPAM as long as we include the way to be removed.  To be removed
> from future mailings simply  visit
> mailto:market2000@entelchile.net?Subject=REMOVE-M2
> This will permanently remove you from all future e-mailings THANK YOU!!! 

Rule #1: spammers always lie. I'm told that this bill never passed US
Congress, and even when it did: this is The Netherlands.


Anyway, spam complain is on its way, although this spammer knows to hide
his real face very well. I hope he will be larted by his ISP.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 13 12:02:06 2000
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On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:50:44 -0600, Chris Price wrote:
>     I was wondering is a read-only filesystem can be created and then
> mounted on a flash memory device.

Yes, this is exactly how Linux on the Compaq iPaq is used. The current
implementation is done by the arm_flash device, but the new MTD device is
much more generic. Have a look at http://www.handhelds.org/ .

>     So if I have a board with 32mb flash and 32mb ram, could I use all/part
> of the 32mb of flash as a read-only /,/usr, bin,... filesystem, and then 
> subsequently create ramdisks for places like /tmp and /var?

Sure.

>     I looked at romfs and cramfs, but they both seem to more
> for booting from than acting as alive filesystem.

I haven't looked at them, but the JFFS (Journaled Flash Filesystem) seems
to be very promising.


Erik

PS: Both JFFS and MTD entered Linux-2.4 by accident after the feature
    freeze, but they are quite handy.

-- 
A towel has immense psychological value.
 -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Sep 14 07:36:49 2000
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Hello,

I am wondering what the theoretical limit of flash/memory is on the LART SA-1100 chip?

Is there a way to expand this even more ?

How would this be done?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Sep 14 10:42:49 2000
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On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Matt Donohoe wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am wondering what the theoretical limit of flash/memory is on the LART SA-1100 chip?

More than you can afford / find stock of! (4 banks of 64Mbytes, I
think. Could be more, I never needed to find out...)

It's going to depend on what you can buy, but, if you've got more of the
same, you could double-deck another set on top of the originals, to get
you another 4Megs. Common up all the signals except the nCS lines, which
you need to take to a.n.other nCS line on the SA1100. nCS1 is spare, if
you're not using the flash expansion card, I believe. 

(JDB thinks this approach is terrible and hacky. He's not entirely wrong,
but it's robust, simple and cheap.)

If you want more DRAM space, you can fit up to 64Mbytes (4 banks, 16Mbytes
per bank) before you have to get creative. 

> Is there a way to expand this even more ?
> 
> How would this be done?

Paging. Wahey. You'll run out of money before you run out of address
space. There's also the PCMCIA space, but offhand I don't know how big
that is. It'll run in a fake 32-bit (non PCMCIA) mode, too, if you're
desparate.  The datasheet will help - I _think_ PCMCIA gets you 16 bit
words, addresses up to A25, but I've not been there for a while. 

(A swift look at the datasheet, Figure 2-3, shows 512Mbyte in the memory
map of each of static memory , PCMCIA space and DRAM, but there may be
otehr limitations.)

Steve

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Subject: Re: More and More Memory
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am wondering what the theoretical limit of flash/memory is on the LART
>>SA-1100 chip?
>
>More than you can afford / find stock of! (4 banks of 64Mbytes, I
>think. Could be more, I never needed to find out...)

One DRAM bank can address up to 128MB. I don't think you can go beyond 64M
without glue, though. If you leave the on-LART banks unpopulated you could
take the system up to half a gig with external boards and a total of 64
16Mx4 EDO chips.

>It's going to depend on what you can buy, but, if you've got more of the
>same, you could double-deck another set on top of the originals, to get
>you another 4Megs.



>(JDB thinks this approach is terrible and hacky. He's not entirely wrong,
>but it's robust, simple and cheap.)

Erm yes. The slightly more robust and less hacky way would be to do a
flash-only board on the hi-speed bus, which gives you another 128M per chip
select. For one-offs I would agree with Steve, though.

>> Is there a way to expand this even more ?
>>
>> How would this be done?
>
>Paging. Wahey. You'll run out of money before you run out of address
>space.

Oh yes. If you were sick^H^H^H^Hambitious enough you could do bank
switching. Take two CS lines and seven GPIOs (on the hi-speed bus) and you
could go up to 128M * 2^8 = 32GB of mixed SRAM/Flash space. Expanding the
Linux page fault handler and cache control to support this contraption is
left as an exercise to the reader.

JDB
[who thinks it is *much* more productive to figure out how much memory you
need than how much mem you can hook up]

--
If you see a long line of rats streaming off of a ship, the correct
assumption is *not* "gosh, I bet that's a real nice boat now that those
rats are gone".
                              -- Mike Sphar in the Monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep 16 03:17:04 2000
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Hello I am interested in doing a personal run for me of about 2 LART boards, could anybody refer to me a suitable online fabricator service ?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep 16 23:13:54 2000
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Hi!

Does anybody know a distributer/supplier (preferably in Europe) that can
ship sixteen of  the 64Mbit DRAMS for the LART rev.3 Board? I tried the
various sources around here, but nobody could come up with parts right
now. Saying is: it takes another month to 6 weeks for new parts to get
to Germany... :-|

        Cheers,
                        Frank...


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Sep 17 06:00:52 2000
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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:00:35 -0700
From: Dan Carleton 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: seeking open PCB fab batches
Message-ID: <20000916210035.I4063@electro.tribal.org>
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Hey Guys,

I know you must get this inquiry a lot, but is anyone coordinating an open
PCB fab batch order at the moment?

The only instances of this I could find in the list archives where from a
couple months back, so I figured I would ask.

Thanks in advance.

- Dan

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 04:18:34 2000
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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:17:37 -0700
From: Dan Carleton 
To: Hugues Belanger 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: seeking open PCB fab batches
Message-ID: <20000917191737.B9134@electro.tribal.org>
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Hugues -

Awesome, count me in!

I probably only want one to begin with, but tell me if you can't reach
your strike point for units, as others in my group might be willing to
throw in orders.

We hope to use them for relays in a large urban wireless WAN, but have yet
to prototype the concept.

Thanks to everyone on the list for your prompt responses.

- Dan

So uttered the esteemed Hugues Belanger:
> Hi Dan
> I'm working on it... I have an engineer friend that as capture the rev 4
> schematic and he is working on the board layout..
> I have a few good place that fab boards and will get a quote ASAP.
> 
> I'll keep the list posted and take pre fab orders... I also plan to get them
> assembled..
> 
> Hugues Belanger
> 
> Dan Carleton wrote:
> 
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > I know you must get this inquiry a lot, but is anyone coordinating an open
> > PCB fab batch order at the moment?
> >
> > The only instances of this I could find in the list archives where from a
> > couple months back, so I figured I would ask.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > - Dan
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

-- 
Dan Carleton
(206)251.5468
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 18:29:14 2000
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Subject: Any body makeing these in the UK
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Hi , Any body got any made (forsale) in the UK
I would want 1 lart , 1 KSB and 1 ethernet board

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 18:34:29 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:33:27 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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Hello, I am trying to get my lart to boot linux. I have compiled a kernel from the latest
2.4.0-test8 source patched with the rmk and np patches. During 'make xconfig' the only
thing I change is setting "system type" to include support for LART. Anyways, the kernel
compiles to about 600K. I know my toolchain works, because I can compile a working kernel
for the iPaq.

I download this to the LART, which apparently accepts it, then download a ramdisk. I have
tried this with both of the ramdisks on the LART web site. Next, I type in "boot" to blob.
The LART responds with "Starting kernel ..." but thats it.

Anyway, I figure maybe I am doing something wrong in compiling the kernel, so I was hoping
someone could send me a precompiled kernel that is known to work on LART. The other
possibility is that my DRAM is messed up somehow, but would blob somehow detect that
during initialization or download?

The other thing I wanted to ask about was if the LART team had considered getting the
compaq bootloader to work for LART. They say it is also for Itsy, which is SA1100 based
like the LART... It has many nice features like flash type detection, xmodem downloads,
ability to pass args to the linux kernel, ability to flash kernel and ramdisk from the
bootloader, etc. And there are potentially a bunch of people who will be working on it
over the next several months to improve its features. Not sure exactly what would be
involved in adding LART support, but I would guess that the handhelds.org people would
support your efforts. Blob is cool, but to play with display stuff using the newest sa1100
lcd drivers, I need to be able to pass arguments to the kernel, and being able to flash
from the bootloader seems nice too. Of course you guys could add these features to blob,
but maybe it would be easier to use the compaq stuff. Just a thought.

Thanks for any help,

-Holly Gates
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 19:07:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:01:48 -0700
From: Dan Carleton 
To: "Noel C. Eck" 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, TheRelic@dingoblue.net.au
Subject: Re: seeking open PCB fab batches
Message-ID: <20000918100148.C9659@electro.tribal.org>
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In-Reply-To: ; from noel@comuniq.net on Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 09:56:20AM -0600
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I noticed this message, but I was hoping to get a rev 4 board.

Beyond the basics all I really need is PCMCIA support.  Any reason the rev
3s wouldn't do fine for my purposes?

Thanks,

- Dan

So uttered the esteemed Noel C. Eck:
> One is currently in progress.  Just to let you know...
> 
> 
> Joseph O'Donnell - galabad@yahoo.com sent the following message to me on
> Friday.  He already has EVERYTHING lined up.  Fully assembled and all.
> 
> Noel
> 
> 
> Message from jj:
> 
> Hello,
> I am now ready to accept payments for both a bare Lart
> rev 3 pcb and a fully assembled with parts Lart rev 3
> board.
> Terms:
> 1. To purchase a bare Lart rev 3 bare pcb you must
>    send me $98.00 US by 9/25/00.
> 2. If I don't receive at least 15 orders by 9/25/00
>    the group buy is cancelled and I will send
>    everyone's money back.
> 3. You may send either check or money order but
>    it must clear by 9/25/00 to be included.
> 4. Pick the ups shipping method of your choice
>    and include its cost in your check amount.
> 5. The production time will be 7 business days or
>    less from 9/25/00.
> 6. The boards will shipped to me in 3 business days.
> 7. I will ship the boards to you according to the
>    ups shipping method of your choice.
> 8. Please include a shipping address for the board
>    and an address to mail your check back to
>    if necessary.
> 9. To purchase an assembled (price includes parts)
>    Lart rev 3 board you must purchase a bare Lart
>    rev 3 pcb as outlined above and send me $398.00 US
>    by 10/01/00.
> 10. If I don't receive 15 Lart rev 3 parts and
> assembly
> orders by 10/01/00 the group buy is cancelled and
> I will send everyones money back.
> 11. The same shipping procedures will apply for the
> assembled Lart rev 3.
> 12. After the bare pcb's are produced assembly time
> will be 4 weeks.
> 13. If you want a signed contract, email me your
> address and I will print this out, sign it and mail it
> to you.
> 
> Please make your payment to:
> Joseph O'Donnell
> P.O. Box 682
> Grand Island NY 14072
> 
> phone number:716-791-4498
> 
> FAQ:
> 1. What happened to the $35.00 pcb price?
> -Unfortunately this price couldn't be applied to
> our quantity of boards.
> 2. Why ups?
> -Because shipment is traceable and verifiable.
> 3. What happened to the ebay auction?
> -I was hoping ebay could be used in some way
> to provide some type of legal guaranty but it didn't
> work because I can't guaranty everyone a Lart until
> I have the money to buy them. I don't see any other
> way to do this without waiting even longer and many
> of us are anxious to get moving.
> 4. Why not wait for Lart rev 4?
> -Because we could be waiting another few month's for
> it
> and the Lart rev 3 is already proven to work.
> 5. What about the ksb?
> -I need someone to produce and send me a pcb layout
> to get a quote on it. Please do so if you are able to.
> 6. What about the jtag dongle?
> -Hopefully I will be able to offer it soon.
> 7. Where are the boards being fabbed?
> -http://www.boardman.cc
> 8. Where are the boards being assembled?
> -http://www.dnrservices.com
> -I would like to ask you all to not email the above
> suppliers directly but to go through me instead.
> Reason why:I contacted dozens of suppliers and the
> above 2 were the only ones who were even remotely
> willing to deal with me. I was told this was because
> of a)that I had any cares at all about the price
> b)the small number of boards c)that I don't have an
> established relationship with the companies
> d) that I wasn't representing a fortune 1000 company
> e)that I wasn't representing any company
> Considering this difficulty I would like to maintain
> a professional clear cut communication line with these
> two companies.
> I hope this answers everyones questions. Please email
> me if it doesn't.
> Thank you,
> Joseph O'Donnell
> 

-- 
Dan Carleton
(206)251.5468
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 19:34:32 2000
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From: "Mike Ingle" 
To: 
Subject: RE: various lart issues
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:32:30 -0700
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Could I suggest looking at the BLOB source and adding a memory
check/hardware verification routine?  Clearly BLOB already loads/runs/talks
on the serial port.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of Holly Gates
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 9:33 AM
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: various lart issues


Hello, I am trying to get my lart to boot linux. I have compiled a kernel
from the latest
2.4.0-test8 source patched with the rmk and np patches. During 'make
xconfig' the only
thing I change is setting "system type" to include support for LART.
Anyways, the kernel
compiles to about 600K. I know my toolchain works, because I can compile a
working kernel
for the iPaq.

I download this to the LART, which apparently accepts it, then download a
ramdisk. I have
tried this with both of the ramdisks on the LART web site. Next, I type in
"boot" to blob.
The LART responds with "Starting kernel ..." but thats it.

Anyway, I figure maybe I am doing something wrong in compiling the kernel,
so I was hoping
someone could send me a precompiled kernel that is known to work on LART.
The other
possibility is that my DRAM is messed up somehow, but would blob somehow
detect that
during initialization or download?

The other thing I wanted to ask about was if the LART team had considered
getting the
compaq bootloader to work for LART. They say it is also for Itsy, which is
SA1100 based
like the LART... It has many nice features like flash type detection, xmodem
downloads,
ability to pass args to the linux kernel, ability to flash kernel and
ramdisk from the
bootloader, etc. And there are potentially a bunch of people who will be
working on it
over the next several months to improve its features. Not sure exactly what
would be
involved in adding LART support, but I would guess that the handhelds.org
people would
support your efforts. Blob is cool, but to play with display stuff using the
newest sa1100
lcd drivers, I need to be able to pass arguments to the kernel, and being
able to flash
from the bootloader seems nice too. Of course you guys could add these
features to blob,
but maybe it would be easier to use the compaq stuff. Just a thought.

Thanks for any help,

-Holly Gates
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 18 23:04:30 2000
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:36:45 -0500
From: Michael Vanecek 
Subject: Re: seeking open PCB fab batches
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Message-id: <39C67CDD.3B34DB68@mjv.com>
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References: <20000917191737.B9134@electro.tribal.org>
 
 <20000918100148.C9659@electro.tribal.org>
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

He quoted a price for the bare pcb but left out the price for an
assembled unit. Any idea how much it is?

Mike


> So uttered the esteemed Noel C. Eck:
> > One is currently in progress.  Just to let you know...
> >
> >
> > Joseph O'Donnell - galabad@yahoo.com sent the following message to me on
> > Friday.  He already has EVERYTHING lined up.  Fully assembled and all.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> > Message from jj:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I am now ready to accept payments for both a bare Lart
> > rev 3 pcb and a fully assembled with parts Lart rev 3
> > board.
> > Terms:
> > 1. To purchase a bare Lart rev 3 bare pcb you must
> >    send me $98.00 US by 9/25/00.
> > 2. If I don't receive at least 15 orders by 9/25/00
> >    the group buy is cancelled and I will send
> >    everyone's money back.
> > 3. You may send either check or money order but
> >    it must clear by 9/25/00 to be included.
> > 4. Pick the ups shipping method of your choice
> >    and include its cost in your check amount.
> > 5. The production time will be 7 business days or
> >    less from 9/25/00.
> > 6. The boards will shipped to me in 3 business days.
> > 7. I will ship the boards to you according to the
> >    ups shipping method of your choice.
> > 8. Please include a shipping address for the board
> >    and an address to mail your check back to
> >    if necessary.
> > 9. To purchase an assembled (price includes parts)
> >    Lart rev 3 board you must purchase a bare Lart
> >    rev 3 pcb as outlined above and send me $398.00 US
> >    by 10/01/00.
> > 10. If I don't receive 15 Lart rev 3 parts and
> > assembly
> > orders by 10/01/00 the group buy is cancelled and
> > I will send everyones money back.
> > 11. The same shipping procedures will apply for the
> > assembled Lart rev 3.
> > 12. After the bare pcb's are produced assembly time
> > will be 4 weeks.
> > 13. If you want a signed contract, email me your
> > address and I will print this out, sign it and mail it
> > to you.
> >
> > Please make your payment to:
> > Joseph O'Donnell
> > P.O. Box 682
> > Grand Island NY 14072
> >
> > phone number:716-791-4498
> >
> > FAQ:
> > 1. What happened to the $35.00 pcb price?
> > -Unfortunately this price couldn't be applied to
> > our quantity of boards.
> > 2. Why ups?
> > -Because shipment is traceable and verifiable.
> > 3. What happened to the ebay auction?
> > -I was hoping ebay could be used in some way
> > to provide some type of legal guaranty but it didn't
> > work because I can't guaranty everyone a Lart until
> > I have the money to buy them. I don't see any other
> > way to do this without waiting even longer and many
> > of us are anxious to get moving.
> > 4. Why not wait for Lart rev 4?
> > -Because we could be waiting another few month's for
> > it
> > and the Lart rev 3 is already proven to work.
> > 5. What about the ksb?
> > -I need someone to produce and send me a pcb layout
> > to get a quote on it. Please do so if you are able to.
> > 6. What about the jtag dongle?
> > -Hopefully I will be able to offer it soon.
> > 7. Where are the boards being fabbed?
> > -http://www.boardman.cc
> > 8. Where are the boards being assembled?
> > -http://www.dnrservices.com
> > -I would like to ask you all to not email the above
> > suppliers directly but to go through me instead.
> > Reason why:I contacted dozens of suppliers and the
> > above 2 were the only ones who were even remotely
> > willing to deal with me. I was told this was because
> > of a)that I had any cares at all about the price
> > b)the small number of boards c)that I don't have an
> > established relationship with the companies
> > d) that I wasn't representing a fortune 1000 company
> > e)that I wasn't representing any company
> > Considering this difficulty I would like to maintain
> > a professional clear cut communication line with these
> > two companies.
> > I hope this answers everyones questions. Please email
> > me if it doesn't.
> > Thank you,
> > Joseph O'Donnell
> >
> 
> --
> Dan Carleton
> (206)251.5468
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 20 06:40:53 2000
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From: "Chang-Yl Lee" 
To: "Lart" 
Subject: Device Driver[writing error]
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:40:45 +0900
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Hello all.

My goals are to make character device driver for LEDs which are memory-mapped, and to control LEDs with such functions as "fopen", "fputc", etc...
I have succeeded in controlling LEDs at the time of initializing device driver. ( Thank you Mr. Baker bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl :-) )
So I made "/dev/led" with mknod and tried to handle LEDs with "fputc(0xaa, fp);" in my application.
But after calling "fputc( 0xaa, fp);", I wonder whitch one of my arguments "0xaa" is going to,  
"struct inode *inode", "struct file *flip", "const char *buf" ,and "count_t count" in my_device_write.
I also tried to examine "buf" and "flip->private_data" with printk, but the printk made page fault error.
I'm reading "LINUX DEVICE DRIVERS " on and on.
But still I can't find my humble mistake.
I want to know about how to obtain my argument in fputc or fputs, and how to make ' echo abc > /dev/led' possible.

Any kinds of information would be appreciated.

Kind regards...
============================================================================
== My test Application                                                                                ===
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
    FILE *fp;
    fp = fopen("/dev/led","w");
    fputc((unsigned int)0xaa,fp);
    fclose(fp);
    return 0;
}
==============================================================================

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 20 10:46:06 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: bluecafe@sgi21.com
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Device Driver[writing error]
In-Reply-To: <001301c022bc$f3a33790$2cb0f8cb@LocalHost>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 20 Sep 2000 10:45:41 +0100 (MDT)
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:40:45 +0900, Chang-Yl Lee wrote:
> My goals are to make character device driver for LEDs which are memory-mapped,
> and to control LEDs with such functions as "fopen", "fputc", etc...
> I have succeeded in controlling LEDs at the time of initializing device driver.
> ( Thank you Mr. Baker bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl :-) )
> So I made "/dev/led" with mknod and tried to handle LEDs with "fputc(0xaa,
> fp);" in my application.
> But after calling "fputc( 0xaa, fp);", I wonder whitch one of my arguments
> "0xaa" is going to,  
> "struct inode *inode", "struct file *flip", "const char *buf" ,and "count_t
> count" in my_device_write.

From the sa1100_ssp audio driver (drivers/sound/sa1100_ssp.c):

  static int ssp_audio_write(struct file *file, const char *buffer, 
                             size_t count, loff_t *ppos)

The data is in the space pointed by parameter buffer, the count parameter
tells you how many bytes there are to read.

> I also tried to examine "buf" and "flip->private_data" with printk, but the
> printk made page fault error.

Yes, but that's also what you would expect. If you don't but something in
the private_data, it will point to invalid data, so you will get a kernel
Oops. Same holds for the buffer parameter: you can't just print it,
because it is NOT mapped into your address space. You first have to copy
it to a temporary buffer using copy_from_user().

> I'm reading "LINUX DEVICE DRIVERS " on and on.
> But still I can't find my humble mistake.

I don't have the book here right now, but there is a section about
accessing userland from kernel space.

> I want to know about how to obtain my argument in fputc or fputs, and how to
> make ' echo abc > /dev/led' possible.
> 
> Any kinds of information would be appreciated.
> 
> Kind regards...
> ============================================================================
> == My test Application                                                         
>                       ===
> int main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
>     FILE *fp;
>     fp = fopen("/dev/led","w");
>     fputc((unsigned int)0xaa,fp);
>     fclose(fp);
>     return 0;
> }

Seems OK, although you'd better user open() and write() when using
devices: fopen() and fput() use internal buffers, so they might wait until
the buffer is full before they write the contents to the device.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 20 16:01:12 2000
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: j j 
Subject: Assembled Lart rev 3 Available
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Hello,
I am now ready to accept payments for both a bare Lart
rev 3 pcb and a fully assembled with parts Lart rev 3
board. 
Terms:
1. To purchase a bare Lart rev 3 bare pcb you must
   send me $98.00 US by 9/25/00.
2. If I don't receive at least 15 orders by 9/25/00
   the group buy is cancelled and I will send 
   everyone's money back.
3. You may send either check or money order but
   it must clear by 9/25/00 to be included.
4. Pick the ups shipping method of your choice
   and include its cost in your check amount.
5. The production time will be 7 business days or
   less from 9/25/00.
6. The boards will shipped to me in 3 business days.
7. I will ship the boards to you according to the
   ups shipping method of your choice.
8. Please include a shipping address for the board
   and an address to mail your check back to
   if necessary.
9. To purchase an assembled (price includes parts)
   Lart rev 3 board you must purchase a bare Lart
   rev 3 pcb as outlined above and send me $398.00 US
   by 10/01/00.
10. If I don't receive 15 Lart rev 3 parts and
assembly
orders by 10/01/00 the group buy is cancelled and
I will send everyones money back.
11. The same shipping procedures will apply for the
assembled Lart rev 3.
12. After the bare pcb's are produced assembly time
will be 4 weeks.
13. If you want a signed contract, email me your
address and I will print this out, sign it and mail it
to you.

Please make your payment to:
Joseph O'Donnell
P.O. Box 682 
Grand Island NY 14072

phone number:716-791-4498

FAQ:
1. What happened to the $35.00 pcb price?
-Unfortunately this price couldn't be applied to
our quantity of boards.
2. Why ups?
-Because shipment is traceable and verifiable.
3. What happened to the ebay auction?
-I was hoping ebay could be used in some way
to provide some type of legal guaranty but it didn't
work because I can't guaranty everyone a Lart until
I have the money to buy them. I don't see any other
way to do this without waiting even longer and many
of us are anxious to get moving.
4. Why not wait for Lart rev 4?
-Because we could be waiting another few month's for
it
and the Lart rev 3 is already proven to work.
5. What about the ksb?
-I need someone to produce and send me a pcb layout
to get a quote on it. Please do so if you are able to.
6. What about the jtag dongle?
-Hopefully I will be able to offer it soon.
7. Where are the boards being fabbed?
-http://www.boardman.cc
8. Where are the boards being assembled?
-http://www.dnrservices.com
-I would like to ask you all to not email the above
suppliers directly but to go through me instead.
Reason why:I contacted dozens of suppliers and the
above 2 were the only ones who were even remotely
willing to deal with me. I was told this was because
of a)that I had any cares at all about the price
b)the small number of boards c)that I don't have an
established relationship with the companies
d) that I wasn't representing a fortune 1000 company
e)that I wasn't representing any company
Considering this difficulty I would like to maintain
a professional clear cut communication line with these
two companies.
I hope this answers everyones questions. Please email
me if it doesn't.
Thank you,
Joseph O'Donnell



__________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep 22 15:59:16 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: using JTAG
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:51:33 KST
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Hello,
 
I'm developing our own BD usging Intel SA-1110.
I bought a SA-1110 Evaluation BD from .
I'd like to test your  on this BD, 
of course, I have to change blob to fit to this BD.
 
To burn a flash on the Intrinsyc's evaluation BD,
I decide to use JTAG Programmer of our own.
 
So, from your site and Intel site, I've received JTAG SW code.
Especially I tried to burn using your " jflash-linux.tar.gz".
 
But, on the first step, there was a problem.
It's the fail to read Device ID.
The Device ID was read to all of 0.
 
I'm new on JTAG & SA-11X0, 
so I ask some questions about this problem and your advice.
Please answer my questions.
 
1. As I found, each vendor has their own JTAG interface cable and method.
    That is, each evaluation BD has its own solutions.
    Am I right ?
 
2. Then, it's means, I can't use the HW and SW that you offer on your site 
    to my evaluation BD, can I?
 
3.  We tried to make JTAG cable on our own,
     But the result was same.
     I tried both of them, one is your SW for linux on linux system,
     the other is Intel's SW in .
     As I thought, SW part has no problem, 
     I guess our JTAG cable has some miss.
     How can I make JTAG cable?
 
Please give me your opinion.
 
Thanks.
 
Regards

==================================================
¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep 22 17:22:01 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: gagamel88@hanmail.net
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: using JTAG
In-Reply-To: <20000922225133.HM.T00000000019GMH@www30.hanmail.net>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Fri 22 Sep 2000 17:21:37 +0100 (MDT)
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On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:51:33 KST, Gagamel wrote:
> I'm developing our own BD usging Intel SA-1110.
> I bought a SA-1110 Evaluation BD from .
> I'd like to test your  on this BD, 
> of course, I have to change blob to fit to this BD.

Be sure to use blob-1.0.8-pre2.

> To burn a flash on the Intrinsyc's evaluation BD,
> I decide to use JTAG Programmer of our own.
>  
> So, from your site and Intel site, I've received JTAG SW code.
> Especially I tried to burn using your " jflash-linux.tar.gz".
>  
> But, on the first step, there was a problem.
> It's the fail to read Device ID.
> The Device ID was read to all of 0.

The LART flash software won't work with your board, because the LART has
the address lines connected in a funny way (that is: A0 on the SA1100 is
not connected to A0 on the flash). Try the original Assabet source
instead, available from Nicolas Pitre's site:

  ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/

I think you'll have to modify it, because the Assabet also has some CPLDs
in its JTAG chain.

> I'm new on JTAG & SA-11X0, 
> so I ask some questions about this problem and your advice.
> Please answer my questions.
>  
> 1. As I found, each vendor has their own JTAG interface cable and method.
>     That is, each evaluation BD has its own solutions.
>     Am I right ?

The Intel Assabet uses a hack with a couple of resistors that only works
with the SA1110 CPU. The LART does it the correct way in that it uses a
level shifter.

Note that the pinout of the JTAG interface is not standardized, so you're
correct in that way. The LART uses a simple pin header, while the Assabet
uses an expensive connector.

> 2. Then, it's means, I can't use the HW and SW that you offer on your site 
>     to my evaluation BD, can I?

I think the jtag interface on your board has a different layout. And you
can't use the LART flash loader, because of the LARTs funny memory
pinouts. But of course you can use our stuff: it's free, and you can
modify it to your needs.

> 3.  We tried to make JTAG cable on our own,
>      But the result was same.
>      I tried both of them, one is your SW for linux on linux system,
>      the other is Intel's SW in .

Intel's kit is made for the Assabet (AFAIK), which has some CPLDs in the
JTAG chain. If your board hasn't the same CPLDs, it won't work. Use the
Intel source (or Nicolas Pitre's linux port) and hack it up for your
board.

>      As I thought, SW part has no problem, 
>      I guess our JTAG cable has some miss.
>      How can I make JTAG cable?

Use the schematics on the LART site and adapt it to your needs. The JTAG
hardware is simple enough to be build on a piece of prototyping board.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 25 04:18:28 2000
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From: "Jiun-Shian Ho" 
To: "LART" 
Subject: EDO-DRAM supplier in Taiwan ?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:22:06 +0800
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Hi all,
    The EDO-DRAM in Taiwan is deficient, so that it's hard to get components
for R&D purpose.
    Could anyone kind in Taiwan supply me some ? Or give me the list of
supplier ?
    What my LART board lacks is just DRAM.

Best Regards,
JS H.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 25 10:03:09 2000
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Jiun-Shian Ho wrote:

> Hi all,
>     The EDO-DRAM in Taiwan is deficient, so that it's hard to get components
> for R&D purpose.

Last time I had a DRAM shortage, I ended up buying a SIMM with the right
components on, and desoldering them with a hot air gun. Worked nicely, but
you need to go to a shop where they don;t mind you looking at the product
very closely before you buy it. 

Steve

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 25 21:03:33 2000
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Message-ID: <39CFA0F6.988FB580@asu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:01:10 -0700
From: Russell Dill 
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Subject: Physical clearences and the high speed connector
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All the boards I've seen that interface with the lart go on the back
side, but I want to use the high speed interface on the front side. From
what I can see in the pictures, if I make a board with a SMD connector,
and then plug it into the lart, I'm going to have trouble. Not only will
I not be able to mount any components besides the SMD connector on the
back side of my board, but any drill though components look like they
might be in danger of shorting. In fact, the inductors on the board look
like they stick up too far to allow such a board. Am I just seeing
things?

Couple other things, why is D2  (pin 97) on the high speed connector
pulled down? I'm learning about PCB design, so layouts for the KSB and
ethernet boards would help me, even if they do smoke. Also, how do I
need to treat analog power sources for a chip, and the standard power
sources (ie, GND, AGND), both in schematics and routing.

Also, once I get prototype boards in, if I have access to an oven, can I
place the componets and just run the boards though?
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Sep 25 21:54:34 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Russ.Dill@asu.edu
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Physical clearences and the high speed connector
In-Reply-To: <39CFA0F6.988FB580@asu.edu>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Mon 25 Sep 2000 21:51:52 +0100 (MDT)
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:01:10 -0700, Russell Dill wrote:
> All the boards I've seen that interface with the lart go on the back
> side, but I want to use the high speed interface on the front side. From
> what I can see in the pictures, if I make a board with a SMD connector,
> and then plug it into the lart, I'm going to have trouble. Not only will
> I not be able to mount any components besides the SMD connector on the
> back side of my board, but any drill though components look like they
> might be in danger of shorting. In fact, the inductors on the board look
> like they stick up too far to allow such a board. Am I just seeing
> things?

Yes, you're just seeing things. I currently have a LART with a 64MB memory
expansion board connected to the high speed connector lying on my desk,
and there is about 2mm space above the inductors. The mating connector is
actually quite high. Through hole components won't short the LART itself,
as long as you keep them away from the inductors. Be careful when
designing a daughtboard: the data and address bus are going over the
daughterboard, so please make it a multilayer board with proper power and
ground planes.

> Couple other things, why is D2  (pin 97) on the high speed connector
> pulled down? I'm learning about PCB design, so layouts for the KSB and
> ethernet boards would help me, even if they do smoke. Also, how do I
> need to treat analog power sources for a chip, and the standard power
> sources (ie, GND, AGND), both in schematics and routing.
> 
> Also, once I get prototype boards in, if I have access to an oven, can I
> place the componets and just run the boards though?

JDB could elaborate on this, but I'm afraid he just left for a conference.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 27 03:16:33 2000
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Subject: Porche Boxter or Luxury Cruise Earn $$$ In Days This Works!!!
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save
or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As
the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The
traditional methods of making money will never allow you
to "move up" or "get rich." Inflation will see to that.

You have just received information that can give you financial freedom
for
the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF
EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have
ever
imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny
of this money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this
program.

I have retired from the program after sending thousands and thousands of

programs. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not
change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember
to
e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of.
One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name
will
be on every one of them! Remember though, the more you send
out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have
given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become
financially independent.

IT IS UP TO YOU!! NOW DO IT!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before you delete this program from your in box, as I almost did, take a

little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and
figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst
possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still
make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any

doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.

$$$ IT WORKS!!! $$$

Jody Jacobs Richmond, VA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HERE´S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF
DOLLAR$$$$!!!!

This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure
that
you could use up to $50,000 or more in the next 90 days.
Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is
not
a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making business.

As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting
new
partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you
to recruit new multi-level business partners, and we sell and deliver a
product for EVERY dollar received.

YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not
involved
in personal selling. You do it privately in your own
home, store or office. This is the EASIEST marketing plan anywhere! It
is
simply order-filling by email!

*******************************************************************
The product is informational and instructional material, keys to the
secrets
for everyone on how to open the doors to the magic world of E-
COMMERCE, the information highway, the wave of the future!

PLAN SUMMARY:

(1) You order the 4 reports listed below ($5 US each.) They come to you
by
email.

(2) Save a copy of this entire letter and put your name after Report #1
and
move the other names down.

(3) Via the internet, access Yahoo.com or any of the other major search
engines to locate hundreds of bulk email service companies (search for
"bulk email") and have them send 25,000 - 50,000 emails for you about
$49+).

(4) Orders will come to you by postal mail - simply email them the
Report
they ordered. Let me ask you - isn´t this about as easy as it gets?

************************************************************

By the way there are over 50 MILLION email addresses with millions more
joining the internet each year so don´t worry about "running out" or
"saturation". People are used to seeing and hearing the same
advertisements
every day on radio/TV. How many times have you received the
same pizza flyers on your door? Then one day you are hungry for pizza
and
you order one. Same thing with this letter. I received this letter
many times - then one day I decided it was time to try it.

************************************************************

YOU CAN START TODAY - JUST DO THESE EASY STEPS:

STEP #1. ORDER THE FOUR REPORTS

Order the four reports shown on the list below (you can´t sell them if
you
don´t order them). -- For each report, send $5.00 (US) CASH, the NAME
& NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
NAME
& RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a
problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the
report.
MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR
ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! Within a few days you will
receive,
by e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your
computer so you can send them to the 1,000´s of people who will order
them
from you.

STEP #2. ADD YOUR MAILING ADDRESS TO THIS LETTER

a. Look below for the listing of the four reports.
b. After you´ve ordered the four reports, delete the name and address
under
REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle.
c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4.
d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.
e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2.
f. Insert your name and address in the REPORT #1 position.
Please make sure you COPY ALL INFORMATION, every name and address,
ACCURATELY!

STEP #3. SAVE THIS LETTER

Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save
it
to your computer. Make NO changes to these instructions. Now you are
ready to use this entire email to send by email to prospects.

Report #1 will tell you how to download bulk email software and email
addresses so you can send it out to thousands of people while you sleep!

Remember that 50,000+ new people are joining the internet every month.

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing; surely you can
afford $20 (US) and initial bulk mailing cost. You obviously already
have a
computer and an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!

There are two primary methods of building your downline:

METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let´s say that you decide to start small,

just to see how it goes, and we´ll assume you and all those
involved email out only 2,000 programs each. Let´s also assume that the
mailing receives a 0.5% response. The response could be much
better. Also, many people will email out hundreds of thousands of
programs
instead of 2,000. (Why stop at 2000?). But continuing with this
example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% response, that is

only 10 orders for

REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each
for a
total of 20,000. Out of those 0.5% 100 people respond and
order

REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of
200,000.
The 0.5% response to that is 1,000 orders for

REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000
total.
The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders for

REPORT #4. That´s 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!!

Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5,000 + $50,000 for a

total of $55,550!!!

REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL
TO
WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND
TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF
EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000
PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that,
and
more!

METHOD #2: PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET
Advertising on the internet is very, very inexpensive, and there are
HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let´s say you decide to start
small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 10
people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on

the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that
everyone
else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.
Look how this small number accumulates to achieve the STAGGERING results

below:

1st level--your first 10 send you
$5..................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).............$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1000)........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1000 ($5 x 10,000)..$50,000

$$$$$$ THIS TOTALS ----------$55,550 $$$$$$

AMAZING ISN´T IT? Remember friends, this assumes that the people who
participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what
would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100´s
of
participants and many will continue to work this program, sending
out programs WITH YOUR NAME ON THEM for years! THINK ABOUT IT!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

People are going to get emails about this plan from you or somebody else
and
many will work this plan. The question is, don´t you want your
name to be on the emails they will send out?

* * * DON´T MISS OUT!!! * * * JUST TRY IT ONCE!!! * * *

* * SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! *** YOU´LL BE AMAZED!!!* *

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!

This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out with YOUR name and
address
on it will be prompt because they can´t advertise until they
receive the report!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GET STARTED TODAY: PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THE FOUR REPORTS NOW.

Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT. CHECKS NOT
ACCEPTED. Make sure the cash is concealed
by wrapping it in two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper
write:

(a) the number & name of the report you are ordering

(b) your e-mail address, and

(c) your name & postal address.

REPORT #1 "The Insider´s Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
Andrew Skidmore
9379 Alexander Rd
Alexander, NY  14005
USA

REPORT #2 "The Insider´s Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
Lars Pedersen
Skejbygaardsvej 7, 1, 10
8240 Risskov
Denmark

REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
John Cole Werner
PO Box 3281
Lihue, HI 96766

REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel

Marketing and the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
Zac Majors
2242 E Woodchuck Way
Sandy, UT 84093

******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the
directions accurately. Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY
so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you
receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
product/report. It is required for this to be a legal business and they
need the reports to send out their letters (with your name on them!)

-- ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. -- Be
patient
and persistent with this program - If you follow
the instructions exactly - results WILL FOLLOW. $$$$

******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don´t receive
20
orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or
sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should
receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don´t, continue
advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100
or
more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the
system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll
in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the

list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You
can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are
ordering
from you.

To generate more income, simply send another batch of e-mails or
continue
placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to
the income you will generate from this business!

Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in
this
program, please answer one question. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH
YOUR PRESENT INCOME OR JOB? If the answer is no, then please look at the

following facts about this super simple MLM program:

1. NO face to face selling, NO meetings, NO inventory! NO Telephone
calls,
NO big cost to start! NOthing to learn, NO skills needed! (Surely
you know how to send email?)

2. No equipment to buy - you already have a computer and internet
connection
- so you have everything you need to fill orders!

3. You are selling a product which does NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE OR
SHIP! (Emailing copies of the reports is FREE!)

4. All of your customers pay you in CA$H! This program will change your
LIFE FOREVER!! Look at the potential for you to be able to quit your
job and live a life of luxury you could only dream about! Imagine
getting
out of debt and buying the car and home of your dreams and being
able to work a super-high paying leisurely easy business from home!

$$$ FINALLY MAKE SOME DREAMS COME TRUE! $$$

ACT NOW! Take your first step toward achieving financial independence.
Order the reports and follow the program outlined above--
SUCCESS will be your reward.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a
business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your
local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal Agency) at
1-800-827-5722 for free help and answers to questions.

Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and
free
seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings are highly
dependent on your activities and advertising. The information contained
on
this site and in the report constitutes no guarantees stated nor
implied. In the event that it is determined that this site or report
constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. The
earnings
amounts listed on this site and in the report are estimates only. If you

have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office
of
Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission,
Bureau
of Consumer Protection in Washington, DC.

================================================

Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter
cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact
information and a method of removal.

This is a one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is
necessary.



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Sep 27 11:40:02 2000
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Message-Id: <200009270939.LAA09580@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl>
From: Erik Mouw 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Lovely spam (was: Porche Boxter or Luxury Cruise Earn $$$ In Days This Works!!!)
In-Reply-To: <200009270105.AA17799@intrapia3.kotel.co.kr>
Organization: Eric conspiracy secret labs
Date: Wed 27 Sep 2000 11:39:57 +0100 (MDT)
X-Face: "!Z|1XjFg!3Iw)BwM^M\k)J5KHiPddz}#/Zw%?$&Q!xqob"OA|})3_@&BTTiQERo?/^g[Z<9P4R8:5C:aqq.cw!hotLc=+u-"+1rq@9$V^8PbOUlodyi_sejt+D`iqkLpx$>.aXl%vnfPIt"LK|/%>94_Zrm8jy?`_[RKt'TuoxUxfk(gMhY(n|DBBl~c$dhO>G%6}R4+DGX3|idBm4oU&UM/XUP4I9aoN{]`ax%B?rgD(I3OJ<62Y6L
X-Mailer: XCmail 1.2devel - with PGP support, PGP engine version 0.5 (IRIX64)
X-Mailerorigin: http://www.fsai.fh-trier.de/~schmitzj/Xclasses/XCmail/
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
X-Loop: erik@it.et.tudelft.nl
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:05:09 +0900, donald453@bbc.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Dear Friend,
> 
> This really works! Have the faith, don't miss this opportunity, get
> involved also, and it will work for you as it does for us!!!!!

Yeah, right.

> Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter
> cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact
> information and a method of removal.

Rule #1: spammers always lie.


Spam complaint is on its way!


Erik

-- 
They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may be slow, but he'll
eventually get them. -- Matthew Lammers in alt.sysadmin.recovery



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep 29 20:51:13 2000
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	for lart-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:51:13 +0200
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	for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:51:08 +0200
From: Hugues_R_Belanger/leo/ca@EMBEDDEDOBJECTS.ORG
Received: from messenger (d141-29-65.home.cgocable.net [24.141.29.65])
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	for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:51:06 +0200 (METDST)
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: I'll offer top dollars for assembled boards...
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:50:24 -0400
Message-ID: 
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on messenger/leo/ca(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at
 09/29/2000 02:50:31 PM
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Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk


Hi all,
I find myself in a tight spot and need assembled boards AS=
AP and I'm prepared to pay top dollar for them.
LART rev 4.0, KSB rev=
 2 and Etherboard.
Please call me direct to negotiate and arrange shi=
pment
Hugues Belanger
905.973.9400

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Sep 29 21:50:57 2000
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	for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:50:56 +0200
From: cheaprates1234@earthlink.net
Received: from mx.boston.juno.com (tnt1a-150.newyork.corecomm.net [216.214.109.150])
	by mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09349
	for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:50:51 +0200 (METDST)
To: 
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:19:37
Message-Id: <152.734699.758541@mx.boston.juno.com>
Subject: re:YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE ,GIVE IT A TRY,.,.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Try our service for free,first 10$ is absolutely free!!!!!

Make some calls , try it, and if you like our service you may 
keep it,if you don't thats ok.At least you can say that this is a 
real free giveaway.YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.

1.Go to web site and fill out application under signup for 
callback (no credit information need since its free).Under 
special instructions put FREE TRIAL ,we will email you free 
number ,thats it,that simple .MAKE SOME CALLS FREE 
http://www.hometown.aol.com/cheaprates100/sign_up/callback/callba
ck.html  


I'm the Representative for all calls going to  your country.I 
beleive I can save you alot of money. 

These rates can only be offered to people out side USA, the rate 
I give you is a special rate
only for you.IF you want conformation about the rates email me 
and I will confirm the rate for you.

 
Please take a look at my rates, I'm  sure I will beat everybody  
price.  
There are no monthly or minimum fees or any other hidden costs. 
  
You just pay for the time your are on the phone. If your paying 
less,I will beat what your paying no matter what   !!!!!!
 
For a complete rate chart and sign-up info 
http://www.hometown.aol.com/cheaprates100/sign_up/callback/callba
ck.html  

 -----CLICK HERE--- http://www.hometown.aol.com/cheaprates100 

Example:    Germany .05+ USA .05 =.10 per minute 
  
Country                      Code    Per Minute 
Algeria-------------------------213       0.26
American Samoa------------------684       0.16
Andorra-------------------------336       0.17
Angola--------------------------244       0.36
Anguilla------------------------264       0.34
Antigu--------------------------268       0.40
Aruba---------------------------297       0.26
Bahamas-------------------------242       0.16
Bangladesh----------------------880       0.64
Barbados------------------------246       0.42
Belize--------------------------501       0.51
Bermuda-------------------------441       0.16
Brazil                           51       0.10 
Canada--------------------------          0.07
Cape  Verde---------------------238       0.43
Caymans-------------------------345       0.26
Dominica------------------------767       0.44
Dominican Rep.------------------809       0.14
Egypt---------------------------20        0.51
France--------------------------33        0.06
Germany-------------------------49        0.05
Grand Turk----------------------649       0.44 
Grenada-------------------------473       0.42 
Jordan--------------------------962       0.51
Lebanon*------------------------961       0.40 
Malaysia------------------------ 60       0.10
Papua New  Guinea---------------675       0.31
Sweden---------------------------46       0.04         
Saudi  Arabia-------------------966       0.39
Singapore------------------------65       0.08 
St Helena-----------------------290       0.59
St Kitts------------------------869       0.35
St Lucia------------------------758       0.42
St Pierre-----------------------508       0.22
St Vincent----------------------784       0.42 
Trinidad------------------------868       0.35
U S Virgin----------------------340       0.07 
United  Arab Emirates-----------971       0.17
United Kingdom------------------44        0.05
USA-----------------------------1         0.05


Add the country you're calling from to the country you're 
calling, to get the rate per minute 
  
  
 Rates apply 24 hrs/day, 7 days per week
 NO sign-up fees, NO monthly fees, and NO surcharges
 You DO NOT have to SWITCH your current provider
 Ideal for Home and Business use
 Callback service is available to/from anywhere in the world.

Contact us for more information and complete rate table at:

mailto:cheaprates1234@earthlink.net
http://hometown.aol.com/cheaprates100

If you would like to be removed from our list, please reply to:
callback1234@earthlink.net with the word "remove" in the subject 
line.
****************************************************
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep 30 00:36:09 2000
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	for lart@lart.tudelft.nl; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:36:02 +0100
From: Jeff Davies/CDPTEST
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:33:22 +0100
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: GPL 32 bit CPU
Message-ID: <3FB9192BFF4CAD2780256969007B35CE.0000000000000000@chrystal.gbr.xerox.com>
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An enterprising person by the name of Toyoaki Sagawa has created a GPL 32 
bit CPU design (simple
initially, but still runs at 75MHz on FPGA). The difference in this case (a 
GPL sparc was produced
by European Space Agency) is that the CPU architecture is also GPL.
& Someone is working on GCC for it, so Linux soon hopefully.

He is currently looking at putting northbridge etc with one on a pcb.
(he has the idea of using multiple simple cores coexisting in one FPGA and 
later
ASIC, or perhaps wider and wider SIMD).
Anyone interested in congratulating him, perhaps offering a helping hand?? 
(I'm sure
LART folks can give him some advice on linking to Northbridge, IDE etc 
etc).

Website is: http://www.morphyplanning.co.jp/FreeCPU/freecpu-e.html
email is PXW07530@nifty.ne.jp


Jeff Davies
jeff@llandre.freeserve.co.uk
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Sep 30 05:20:00 2000
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Seline 
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Subject: how much does it cost to hire someone to design a board?
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Hi,

I've been following the LART discussion quite closely, and am looking
forward to buying one :->

The LART has brought up a question amongst my colleauges: how much would
it cost to design a small MIPs processor based motherboard?  

How much more if it was a multiple CPU board (I guess it would be either
ccNUMA or snoopy bus)?

(Assuming we could get SGI to sell us the chips at cost and license the
necessary ASICs :->).

Thanks in advance!

-Chris


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Oct  1 14:23:09 2000
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 00 03:56:35 EST
To: cabnewstv3@rocketmai.com
Subject: CABLE TV
Message-ID: <>
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Oct  1 19:36:39 2000
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

How is it that so much Spam is being sent to the LART list members?
Does the server not bounce messages from those not on the list?

- -Randy Glenn
PICxpert-at-home.com
PICxpert-at-picxpert.com
PICxpert-at-yahoo.com
Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org

http://www.picxpert.com/

Those packing a big grudge, usually pack a big mouth along with it.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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iQA/AwUBOdd11hAwctUaXVohEQL7TgCfSOcfRM3qimFiEK140bqSUAKL47gAoNsa
vJzzmZzSSsVUdfJC5d50bCSw
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_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct  2 10:10:39 2000
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From: Glen Duncan 
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Randy Glenn wrote:

> How is it that so much Spam is being sent to the LART list members?
> Does the server not bounce messages from those not on the list?

Don't know, but I think it's time to change the address so their junk
bounces.

-Glen

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct  2 12:01:11 2000
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From: Erik Mouw 
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:35:21 -0400, Randy Glenn wrote:
> How is it that so much Spam is being sent to the LART list members?

Because the LART mailing list address is being published on other
websites. Note that email harvesters can't see the LART pages at all,
because we use the the Apache mod_rewrite module to redirect email
harvesters to http://mmc.et.tudelft.nl/problem.html .

> Does the server not bounce messages from those not on the list?

No. The LART mailing list is an open mailing list.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct  2 20:13:17 2000
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From: Glen Duncan 
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: Spam
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On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:35:21 -0400, Randy Glenn wrote:
> > How is it that so much Spam is being sent to the LART list members?
> 
> Because the LART mailing list address is being published on other
> websites. Note that email harvesters can't see the LART pages at all,
> because we use the the Apache mod_rewrite module to redirect email
> harvesters to http://mmc.et.tudelft.nl/problem.html .

Have you considered directing the spiders to something like sugarplum?
http://www.devin.com/sugarplum/  It's quite configurable and does a nice
job of polluting their database rendering it unusable.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct  5 00:41:02 2000
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  5 Oct 2000 00:40:59 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:36:46 +0000
Subject: At last, Herbal V the all natural alternative is available!
To: majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl, lart@lart.tudelft.nl,
        owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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FAX orders are processed immediately.

  Or, print & mail to: LSN   
                       3502 N. Powerline Rd. #525 
                       Pompano Beach, FL 33069                


        ______________________________________________________


*CHECK BY FAX ORDERS: Complete the check as normal. Tape
the check in the area below. Below the check, clearly write
the check number, all numbers at the bottom of the check,
& your name. Tape the check below and fax the check to the
toll free FAX number above. Void the check. Our merchant
will electronically debit your account for the amount of 
the check; your reference number for this transaction will
be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier !

                          TAPE CHECK BELOW















              _____________________________________________________________

This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further 
contact is necessary. Please Note: Herbal V is not intended to
diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. As individuals differ,
so will results. Herbal V helps provide herbal and nutritional support
for male sexual performance. The FDA has not evaluated these 
statements. For details about our double your money back guarantee,
please write to the above address, attention consumer affairs 
department; enclose a self addressed stamped envelope for this and any 
requested contact information.
Thank You.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct  5 02:34:18 2000
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	Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:21:05 -0700
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:21:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Duncan 
To: HerbalV994@hotbot.com
cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: At last, Herbal V the all natural alternative is available!
In-Reply-To: <184.831005.152515@unknown>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by thorgal.et.tudelft.nl id CAA08334
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Congradulations! Your network abuse has been reported to:
1) Your ISP, dialsprint.net
2) hotbot.com who will be closing your drop box.
3) The FDA for pimping dubious 'dietary supplements' via e-mail.

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 HerbalV994@hotbot.com wrote:

> 
> Herbal V: An Incredible All-Natural Healthy Alternative to Viagra 
> 
> 
>   Herbal V is the All Natural Approach to Male Virility,
>   Vitality and Pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> Available N o w ! 
> 
> 
> Welcome to the New Sexual Revolution.
> 
> It's the all natural male potency and pleasure pill that men 
> everywhere are buzzing about. Herbal V is safe, natural and
> specifically formulated to help support male sexual function
> and pleasure. You just take two easy-to-swallow tablets
> one hour before sex. And there's more great news - you can
> get Herbal V for less than $1 a pill.
> 
> Amazing word of mouth praise on Herbal V has been spreading 
> like wildfire-already over 1,500,000 men  have chosen
> Herbal V. Since it is 100% natural you will never have
> to worry about safety. Try doctor-recommended Herbal V
> today and have the greatest night of your life!
> 
> 
> Herbal V... Bringing Back the Magic!
> 
> 
> 1,585,000 men can't be wrong. To date over 1 million men 
> have tried the super supplement Herbal V.
> Here is why: 
> 
> No Doctor Visit Required 
> Available Over the Counter 
> Not a Drug 
> 100% Natural 
> Safe, No Worries 
> Highest Quality Pharmaceutical-Grade Pure Nutriceuticals 
> Guaranteed Potency & Purity 
> 
> Be a Real Man Again!
> 
> Questions and Answers
> 
> What is Herbal V?
> 
> Herbal V is a proprietary blend that was specifically
> developed as a safe alternative for men who prefer
> an all-natural approach to address impotence and boost
> sexual performance. This amazing formula first became
> popular with Hollywood insiders and the wealthy elite.
> They were maximizing their sex lives, long before it 
> was available to the general public. 
> 
> How does Herbal V work?
> 
> Developed by a team whose goal was to create the perfect 
> all-natural aphrodisiac. Herbal V is the result of that
> remarkable effort. The Herbal V formula contains a precise
> blend of cutting edge pro-sexual nutrients from around
> the world that provide nutritional support, making it
> possible for a man to have a pleasurable sexual experience. 
> 
> What can Herbal V do for me?
> 
> Herbal V helps support male sexual function and 
> pleasure in a safe and natural manner. Simply put, 
> it can make your sex life incredible. 
> 
> Is Herbal V Safe?
> 
> One of the great things about Herbal V is that it is
> not a drug. It is an incredible herbal dietary supplement
> that provides nutritional support for male sexual function
> and pleasure. One of the most comforting features of
> Herbal V is that you never have to worry about safety. 
> 
> Herbal V: Safe - Natural - Exciting
> 
> Many have speculated that because Herbal V is so
> popular with men, it must contain prescription drugs
> or chemical components. Herbal V does not contain any 
> elements or traces of any prescription drug. Herbal V 
> is made using the world's most technologically advanced
> state-of-the-art cold processing equipment to ensure
> maximum purity. Herbal V has been independently analyzed
> by the nation's premier testing facility to ensure purity,
> quality and to end the rumors that, because it is so
> popular, it must somehow be chemical. It is not.
> Herbal V is natural - just as it says on the label.
> Herbal V is simply fantastic! 
> 
> Herbal V: Ingredients
> 
> Yohimbe, saw palmetto, avena sativa, androstenedione,
> guarana, taurine, siberian ginseng, tribulus terrestris. 
> Tribulus Terrestis is certified to enhanced testosterone
> levels by increasing Luteinzing hormone (LH) levels. 
> Androstenedione which is a precursor to testosterone
> unlocks bound testosterone and makes it biologically
> active again quickly. This means a dramatic surge in 
> desire. Avena Sativa Stimulates the neurotransmitter 
> pleasure centers to maximum capacity. This greatly
> intensifies pleasure.
> 
> Just listen to what Herbal V has done for the sex lives
> of people like you!
> 
> “On a scale of 1 to 10, it's a 15. Electrifying. It's like 
> a wonder pill!” 
> — Justin Q B., New Haven, Texas
> 
> “I haven't had sexual relations in 11 years. Then with 
> Herbal V it was... wow! It works again!” 
> — Sid R., Lakeland, Florida
> 
> “I had sex four times in one night. It made me feel
> like a 19-year-old again.” 
> — Chip S, Beech Mountain, North Carolina
> 
> “Herbal V has turned my husband into a Sexual Superman! 
> I like the fact that it's all natural and has no
> side effects. It's bringing back the good old days.” 
> — Jennifer B, Beverly Hills, California 
> 
> The above testimonials are from product literature, 
> and we have not independently verified them.
> However, the following testimonial is from a "senior"
> gentleman who has purchased his second bottle of
> Herbal V. When we heard his words with our own ears,
> we asked his permission to print them here. 
> 
>  “Man! I'm wild as I can be! I feel like I'm 25 years old again! 
> I'm not believing this!” 
>                           — Mr. Murphy, age 64, Lampart, IL.
> 
> 
> 
> Risk Free: Double Your Money Back Guarantee
> 
> If Herbal V does not give the desired results as stated
> above, simply return the unused portion for a
> double-your money back refund. No questions asked ! 
> 
> Order Now: Safe, Fast, Secure, Private
> 
> Herbal V with its DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE is
> available only through this special promotional offer.
> Herbal V arrives in plain packaging for your privacy.
> Any and all information is kept strictly confidential.
> 
> Payment Methods
> 
> You may FAX or Postal Mail Checks, MasterCard, Visa,
> & American Express.payments. Money Orders
> are accepted only by Postal Mail. 
> 
> 
> Each bottle of Herbal V contains 30 tablets, approximately
> a 1 month supply.
> 
> 
> Step 1: Place a check by your desired quanity.
> 
> 
> ______ 1 Bottle of Herbal V  $24
> 
> 
> ______ 2 Bottles of Herbal V $44
> 
> 
> ______ 3 Bottles of Herbal V $59
> 
> 
> Please add $6 shipping and handling for any size order. 
> [ Total cost including shipping & handling, 
> 1 bottle=$30, 2 bottles=$50, 3 bottles=$65 ]
> 
> International Orders
> Please add $16 shipping and handling for any size order.
> [ Total cost including shipping & handling,
> 1 bottle=$40, 2 bottles=$60, 3 bottles=$75 ]
> 
> Step 2: Place a check by your desired payment method 
> and complete fields if necessary.
> 
> 
> _____Check or CHECK-BY-FAX [details below]
> 
> 
> _____Money Order 
> 
> 
> _____American Express 
> Account Number__________________ Exp____/____
> 
> _____Visa
> Account Number__________________ Exp____/____
> 
> _____MasterCard
> Account Number__________________ Exp____/____
> 
> 
> Please make your check or money order payable to
> "Lion Sciences National".
>  
> Charges will appear discreetly as "Lion S National".
> 
> Step 3: Please complete and print the following fields clearly.
> 
> 
> Name ___________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> Address _________________________________________________
> 
> 
> City ____________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> State ___________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> Zip _____________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> E-mail __________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> Signature _________________________________________________
> [ required for check and credit card orders]
> 
> 
> 
>              Toll Free FAX Order Line: 1-800-940-6590
> If faxing in your order, please state whether you require
> a fax, email, or no confirmation at all. 
> Allow up to one day for confirmation, if requested.
> FAX orders are processed immediately.
> 
>   Or, print & mail to: LSN   
>                        3502 N. Powerline Rd. #525 
>                        Pompano Beach, FL 33069                
> 
> 
>         ______________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *CHECK BY FAX ORDERS: Complete the check as normal. Tape
> the check in the area below. Below the check, clearly write
> the check number, all numbers at the bottom of the check,
> & your name. Tape the check below and fax the check to the
> toll free FAX number above. Void the check. Our merchant
> will electronically debit your account for the amount of 
> the check; your reference number for this transaction will
> be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier !
> 
>                           TAPE CHECK BELOW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>               _____________________________________________________________
> 
> This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further 
> contact is necessary. Please Note: Herbal V is not intended to
> diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. As individuals differ,
> so will results. Herbal V helps provide herbal and nutritional support
> for male sexual performance. The FDA has not evaluated these 
> statements. For details about our double your money back guarantee,
> please write to the above address, attention consumer affairs 
> department; enclose a self addressed stamped envelope for this and any 
> requested contact information.
> Thank You.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct  5 17:18:46 2000
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Message-Id: <200010051518.RAA07317@kalman.et.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Recent spam messages
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:18:32 +0200 (CEST)
From: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl (Erik Mouw)
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

It seems that the LART list address is being sold on spam CDROMs, so
that explains the high number of spam messages that popped up on this
list. I reported all recent spam messages to the ISPs, and so far all
spammers lost their account.

Until today, we couldn't do anything about the spam, because all
messages to lart.tudelft.nl pass through the central mail server
(mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl) so we couldn't run MAPS RBL or ORBS.

Fortunately for us, mailhst2 has been flooded by a spam message (the
same Herbal-V message) that was send to quite a lot of people in
our faculty. Together with the administrator, I just installed MAPS
RBL on the central mail server. We hope that this will bring down
the number of spam messages.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct  5 22:34:27 2000
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From: marketing12@rocketmail.com
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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 00 13:53:58 EST
To: marketing12@rocketmail.com
Subject: MAKE MONEY NOW with pc
Message-ID: <>
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk







HELLO: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR 50 MILLION E-MAIL


ADDRESSES ON  CD-ROM.  IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS


INFORMATION, PLEASE CLICK DELETE. THANK YOU.









Dear Consumer,





Increase your business sales!  How?? By targeting millions of 
buyers via e-mail !!  We are offering over 50 million FRESH,
DELIVERABLE, e-mail addresses on CD-ROM.  The cd-rom
includes targeted addresses, such as business opportuinty


seekers, sports buffs, mlm, impulsive buyers and investors.
The cd-rom also includes general internet, United States,
United kingdom, mixed domains, International, Canadian,
earthlink, aol, compuserve, misc and much more.  The list's
are divided into groups and are compressed. This will allow
you to use the names right off the cd. 

ORDER IN THE NEXT 7 DAYS AND RECEIVE 

AN ADDITIONAL CD-ROM WITH MILLIONS OF 
DELIVERABLE E-MAIL ADDRESSES, AND 
THE BULK MASS MAILER BULKING SOFTWARE FREE!!
 
THE TWO BONUSES ALONE ARE WORTH  ACTING NOW!

The bonus cd-rom contains such address as general internet,
 msn, aol, compuserve, delphi and much more!




The bonus bulk software is designed to get the mail out fast!

THE BONUSES ALONE ARE WORTH HUNDRED'S!!

ACT NOW AND RECEIVE ALL THIS FOR AN ALL TIME
UNBELIEVEABLE LOW, LOW  PRICE OF $39.95

THAT'S RIGHT ONLY $39.95 BUT YOU MUST ORDER NOW!

ORDER INFORMATION:






SIMPLY SEND $39.95, 
CHECK, OR  MONEY ORDER, US FUNDS,
PAYABLE TO:  R. GOODWIN


CREDIT CARD ORDERS, FILL OUT FORM BELOW.



SHIP TO: MARKETING AND MORE

PO BOX 1862, SANTA ROSA BEACH, FL 32459

  (cut and send form below)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - 



Print Name:  ________________________________________



 Address: ________________________________________



 City/State/Zip: ______________________________________



 CreditCard number: ____________________________________



 Exp. Date: ________________________


*Signature required for credit card orders__________________________
($39.95 e-name cd & 2bonuses)

Thank you for your order!

If we have reached you in error, and you would like to be removed
carla7@dcemail.com


















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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct  6 00:32:58 2000
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:18:37 -0400
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: The spam flood
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

Okay, that does it.

The last spam made me annoyed enough to make this a closed list. From now
on, only subscribers can send messages. Erik, could you make the website
reflect this ?

JDB
[listadminning from Atlanta]

--
If you see a long line of rats streaming off of a ship, the correct
assumption is *not* "gosh, I bet that's a real nice boat now that those
rats are gone".
                              -- Mike Sphar in the Monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct  6 11:47:14 2000
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Message-ID: <20001006114711.A9658@it.et.tudelft.nl>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:47:11 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: "J.D. Bakker" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: The spam flood
References: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i
In-Reply-To: ; from J.D. Bakker on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:18:37PM -0400
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy!
Sender: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Precedence: bulk

On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:18:37PM -0400, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Okay, that does it.
> 
> The last spam made me annoyed enough to make this a closed list. From now
> on, only subscribers can send messages. Erik, could you make the website
> reflect this ?

Done. For people cheching the page: note that Marc is working on the
list archive pages: the LART list is temporary broken, but the good
thing is that we also have an archive of the sa1100-linux list online.

> JDB
> [listadminning from Atlanta]

Hmm, the hotel room with ADSL again?


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct  6 14:41:42 2000
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:29:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: The spam flood
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yay!!  There was much rejoicing.


Now that I've added to the senseless drivel that JDB intended to squash by 
making this a closed list, I'm going to go back to Lurk mode until I have 
something constructive to say again.

Barry
-------------------
>Okay, that does it.
>
>The last spam made me annoyed enough to make this a closed list. From now
>on, only subscribers can send messages. Erik, could you make the website
>reflect this ?
>
>JDB
>[listadminning from Atlanta]
>
>--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct  6 21:18:14 2000
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From: Marc Joosen 
Message-Id: <200010061918.VAA05271@historia.et.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Re: The spam flood
To: J.A.K.Mouw@ITS.TUDelft.NL (Erik Mouw)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:18:11 +0200 (MEST)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
In-Reply-To: <20001006114711.A9658@it.et.tudelft.nl> from "Erik Mouw" at Oct 06, 2000 11:47:11 AM
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  Hi all,

> > The last spam made me annoyed enough to make this a closed list. From now
> > on, only subscribers can send messages. Erik, could you make the website
> > reflect this ?
> 
> Done. For people cheching the page: note that Marc is working on the
> list archive pages: the LART list is temporary broken, but the good
> thing is that we also have an archive of the sa1100-linux list online.

  Ok, it's back again. The trouble was with the spam message `MAKE MONEY NOW
with pc', sent on 5 October. It had no Message-id, and the php-code assumed
that at least _that_ should be there. Lessons learned:
1) Never assume anything about your input data (ok, we knew that)
2) Spammers always lie _and_ send mail with corrupt headers.

  Now may be a good time to check your mail client for RFC822-compliance...
you wouldn't believe the number of exceptions one has to handle to get a
reliable index. All that spam was a good way to find them :-|
  The next issue is to deal with different character sets in the headers,
but that's only cosmetic.


  Have fun,

-- 
Marc
e-mail: M.A.H.G.Joosen@et.tudelft.nl  (actually, that's 
     marcj@duteela.et.tudelft.nl  or  marcj@historia.et.tudelft.nl)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?
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  |   \                          +---/     \---+    (==========)
  |____\___________              +---\_____/---+     //
  >____)|        | \__                    \  \______//___
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  |____________________\                   \_______/
 Roger, go at throttle up          CHR$(32), the final frontier
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct  7 08:20:38 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Build blob
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Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 15:19:14 KST
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Hello,
I'm working using your blob-1.0.8-pre2 for our own SA1110 BD.
I use RedHat 6.1 as my host system.
I installed  that I get from your web site.
I decompressed it to /data/lart/cross of the host system.
and then config my profile like below,

<.bash_profile>
PATH=.:/data/lart/cross/bin:/usr/local/bin:$PATH:$HOME/bin
CC=/data/lart/cross/bin/arm-linux-gcc
OBJCOPY=/data/lart/cross/bin/arm-linux-objcopy

and I decompressed your  to my home directory.

and then, 

# ./configure --with-linux-prefix=/data/lart/cross/arm-linux --with-board=assabet i686-unknown-linux-gnu --enable-maintainer-mode

loading cache ./config.cache
checking for a BSD compatible install... (cached) /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
checking for working aclocal... found
checking for working autoconf... found
checking for working automake... found
checking for working autoheader... found
checking for working makeinfo... found
checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... yes
checking host system type... i686-unknown-linux-gnu
checking for gcc... (cached) gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) is a cross-compiler... yes
checking whether we are using GNU C... (cached) yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes
checking for arm-linux-objcopy... (cached) arm-linux-objcopy
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether ln -s works... (cached) yes
checking target board... Assabet
checking for inline... (cached) inline
checking for C flags to get more warnings... -Wall
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile
creating include/Makefile
creating src/Makefile
creating tools/Makefile
creating include/config.h
include/config.h is unchanged

Configuration
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Target board                assabet
C compiler                  gcc
C flags                     -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC
Linker flags                -static -nostdlib
Objcopy tool                arm-linux-objcopy
Objcopy flags               -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S
Run-time debug information  no
#
#

# make

Making all in tools
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/gagamel/bl/tools'
make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gagamel/bl/tools'
Making all in include
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/gagamel/bl/include'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gagamel/bl/include'
Making all in src
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/gagamel/bl/src'
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c start.S
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c clock.c
clock.c:131: warning: #warning "FIXME: GetHexValue() returns NULL after the fifth call..."
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c command.c
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c main.c
main.c:204: warning: #warning "FIXME: should set kernel commandline parameters -- Erik"
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c flash.c
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c serial.c
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c time.c
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c util.c
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../include -I../include 	-I../include    -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -c uucodec.c
gcc  -O2 -I/data/lart/cross/arm-linux/include -Wall -nostdinc -mcpu=strongarm110 -mapcs-32 -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC -static -nostdlib -o blob-elf32 -Wl,-T,../src/ld-script start.o clock.o command.o main.o flash.o serial.o time.o util.o uucodec.o -lgcc 
arm-linux-objcopy -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S blob-elf32 blob
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gagamel/bl/src'
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/gagamel/bl'
make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gagamel/bl'
#
#

so, I got the files, blob and blob-elf32.
Of course, I change some code of .
They are about CPU clock (0x9002 0014 - PPCR to 0x03=103.2) and SERIAL port to USE_SERIAL3, 38400.
And I skip memory setup for enabling serial port first.
But, after I wrote blob to flash memory, I couldn't see any character on my terminal.
I did objdump blob-elf32, the disassembled code was same my .
So, I'd like to ask you.
1. Do you think my building environment was wrong?
2. Can I disassemble my  image file to check if the  image was created correctly?
3. I think the BD have to send some characters to my terminal of host system even though the memory setup was skiped or wrong.  Am I right?

Please send your opinion. 
I developed MPC850 before. But this is the first time, embedded linux and SA-1110.

Regards,

Gagamel

==================================================
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 10 17:30:57 2000
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http://www.sibyte.com/ has an on-chip dual-processor MIPS64 CPU with
Three 10/100/1000 Ethernet MACs, configurable to packet FIFOs, 32-bit
PCI, LDT, Flash, PCMCIA support, GPIO, Serial Interfaces, a memory
controller that can handle DDR SDRAM - supports up to 8GB memory, has L1
- 32KB Data cache and 32KB Instruction cache, L2 - 512K cache shared
between the two onchip CPUs - enough to make me drool... Mobile may be
out since it uses 10 Watts. But throw that together with maybe a few
3Dfx chips, some killer audio chips and put it in a package the size of
an external modem with a high-capacity HD and you've got yourself a
killer 3D gaming system. I haven't seen it referenced on the site, but
according to /., they're going to support NetBSD and Linux development
for the platform. It's currently vaporware - but the rapid developments
in technology are enough to make me build a permanently mounted
drool-cup...

Mike
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 10 19:59:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:56:55 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: LART list 
Subject: Precompiled kernel available
Message-ID: <20001010195655.B18187@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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Hi all,

Upon popular request, I have put a precompiled kernel online.
Get it at:

  http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/

This is a kernel for a basic LART with ramdisk.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 10 21:13:55 2000
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:12:55 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: LART list 
Subject: Second try: Precompiled kernel available
Message-ID: <20001010211255.A29372@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi all,

OK, second try, we got some serious DNS/sendmail problems over here, so
I just resend this message. Sorry if you got it ttwwiiccee.


Upon popular request, I have put a precompiled kernel online.
Get it at:

  http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/

This is a kernel for a basic LART with ramdisk.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 10 22:13:41 2000
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:11:58 +0200
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: New hardware distribution released.
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Hi all,

The unthinkable has happened: we've released the LART 4 design files.
Expect the KSB release RSN.

JD 'struggling with Acrobat' B.

--
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
 I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
 All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
 Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 10 23:42:28 2000
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:41:54 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Dexter 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: Second try: Precompiled kernel available
Message-ID: <20001010234154.E29372@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 08:36:20PM +0000, Dexter wrote:
> As an offer, I have a dedicated line (144 kbps) which seems a bit faster
> to US peeps than the .nl site. I can mirror some files for you, if you so
> need. I have dedicated web server and DNS and am very much self-contained.
> 
> Let me know if you'd like this facility, to reduce bandwidth demands on
> your .nl link from US peeps :o)

Thanks for your offer, but bandwidth to The Netherlands is not really a
problem I think. We're connected to SURF-net (the educational network
in The Netherlands) which has a PoP in New-York:

- www.lart.tudelft.nl is connected with full duplex fast ethernet
- Delft university backbone is 622 Mbit or better
- Delft -- Amsterdam is 622 Mbit
- Amsterdam -- New-York is 466 Mbit

I can assure you that www.lart.tudelft.nl is not the bottleneck, it is
mostly sitting idle. If I download stuff from ftp.kernel.org in the
morning (and the US is still sound asleep), I sometimes get 600
kbyte/s, which is about the same rate as I have seen at well connected
sites in the US. So I'm affraid the main problems are in the US and
having a US mirror won't really help.
(of course if you have evidence, I can be convinced otherwise, so
please correct me if I'm wrong ;-).

The problems we just had nothing to do with bandwidth, but with a LART
list recipient that had an offline primary DNS server and a secondary
DNS server that went crazy. Sendmail refused to send or receive any
mail at all, and instead of digging up the Bat Book (sendmail book) in
one of the many boxes in my room (we temporarily moved to another
floor) we just removed everything from the queue and restarted
sendmail (the primary DNS went back online in the mean time).

> Dave
> TX
> (coming soon: uniLART and multiLART :)

Hmm, sounds good. Tell us more!


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Oct 11 23:46:01 2000
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:42:56 +0200
From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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Are there someone interesting in use the SA1110 to one new architecture
???
If I don't make a mistake this is the µP into the iPAQ and Yopi
...correct ???
I would like to know if some one has some idea about it or some
suggestion ...

best regards ....
-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Oct 11 23:58:34 2000
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From: "Mike Ingle" 
To: 
Subject: RE: SA1110 ...
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:57:13 -0700
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I think the SA-1100 chosen by the LART team was a good choice for low volume
runs by experimenters.  The 110 is BGA, and that would be difficult to
fabricate without special facilities.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:43 PM
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: SA1110 ...


Are there someone interesting in use the SA1110 to one new architecture
???
If I don't make a mistake this is the µP into the iPAQ and Yopi
...correct ???
I would like to know if some one has some idea about it or some
suggestion ...

best regards ....
--
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 00:08:19 2000
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:58:17 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: SA1110 ...
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On Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 11:42:56PM +0200, Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo wrote:
> Are there someone interesting in use the SA1110 to one new architecture
> ???
> If I don't make a mistake this is the µP into the iPAQ and Yopi
> ...correct ???

Don't know about the Yopi, but it's definitively in the iPaq.

> I would like to know if some one has some idea about it or some
> suggestion ...

Well, from a programmers point of view the SA1100 and the SA1110 are
the same. The differences are in the hardware: the SA1110 is a SA1100
with SDRAM interface (the SA1100 uses EDO DRAM) and some silicon bugs
fixed.

The main problem with the SA1110 is that it only available in uBGA,
which is not nice at all for prototypes.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 01:17:41 2000
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From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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Erik Mouw wrote:
 
> Don't know about the Yopi, but it's definitively in the iPaq. 
> Well, from a programmers point of view the SA1100 and the SA1110 are
> the same. The differences are in the hardware: the SA1110 is a SA1100
> with SDRAM interface (the SA1100 uses EDO DRAM) and some silicon bugs
> fixed.
> 
Bugs ????how bugs ???

> The main problem with the SA1110 is that it only available in uBGA,
> which is not nice at all for prototypes.
> 
Ja ...it is the first problem that I saw ... I have 4 units of them
....I'm having serious problems to buy 1100DF ... and maybe I don't have
other alternative unless use this ...but I still want to it ...cause I
have a monted board just without ARM , RAM anb Flash ....


> Erik

-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 02:26:39 2000
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 <20001011235817.I924@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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To: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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>> The main problem with the SA1110 is that it only available in uBGA,
>> which is not nice at all for prototypes.

I'm looking into doing a design with the '1110; but that means that only
those with access to serious tools can build them. For this reason we will
keep offering the designs for the LART Classic (TM) for those who want to
(or have to) build some themselves.

>Ja ...it is the first problem that I saw ... I have 4 units of them
>....I'm having serious problems to buy 1100DF ...

http://www.avnetmarshall.com/ claims to have them (FADES1100DF) in stock,
for just over 50 bucks.

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 10:17:13 2000
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: SA1110 ...
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:16:15 GMT
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>Are there someone interesting in use the SA1110 to one new architecture
>???
>If I don't make a mistake this is the µP into the iPAQ and Yopi
>...correct ???
>I would like to know if some one has some idea about it or some
>suggestion ...

I've just received a couple of sample chips from Intel, free from their web 
site. 8-)

I'm awaiting a quote for mounting them, before I go ahead and design a PCB 
for them. If the price is exorbitant, I won't bother.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 14:38:17 2000
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:26:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
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Subject: Re: SA1110 ...
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Several companies (Advanced Interconnections for example [www.advintcorp.com]) 
offer uBGA to through-hole and (iirc) LQFP adapters that you can get free 
samples of.  Specify what footprint you need, and they should be willing to send 
you 2 samples free.  Just right if you want to proto a board that uses the 1110 
and the 1111 - I believe they have the same footprint. :)

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>
>I've just received a couple of sample chips from Intel, free from their web 
>site. 8-)
>
>I'm awaiting a quote for mounting them, before I go ahead and design a PCB 
>for them. If the price is exorbitant, I won't bother.
>

Further to the above, I've been quoted 50 UK pounds (their minimum charge) 
for mounting the two chips, including X-Ray. I'll have to supply a stencil, 
but I can get one made by PCB-Pool for 50 pounds. At those prices, I'll go 
ahead with the PCB.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com
Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Code/1835





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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:22:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: SA1110 ...
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>I've just received a couple of sample chips from Intel, free from their web 
>site. 8-)

Aargh!!!  They don't have any suppliers outside of Europe who are participating 
in the free sample pgrogram. :(

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 18:40:49 2000
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: KSB CPLD PDFs
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Hi all,

We've released the schematics for the CPLDs on the KSB. All the dirt is at
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/ksb/ .

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency.


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Oct 12 19:10:52 2000
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I foresee that we will soon see PCB files and Linux drivers for the
KSB and Ethernet boards...

Am I right? Are those psychic classes paying off? Or should I try and
get my $20 back?

- -Randy Glenn
PICxpert-at-home.com
PICxpert-at-picxpert.com
PICxpert-at-yahoo.com
Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org

http://www.picxpert.com/

Those packing a big grudge, usually pack a big mouth along with it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
[mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of J.D. Bakker
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:40 PM
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: KSB CPLD PDFs


Hi all,

We've released the schematics for the CPLDs on the KSB. All the dirt
is at
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/ksb/ .

JDB.

- --
Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency.


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBOeXwQhAwctUaXVohEQKdDQCgrr69auT6FScACxynFqaErPf1Xe4AoOEl
V4wYQiffzhuq6pJs0hn55gUm
=JjGg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct 14 02:42:17 2000
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:39:10 +0200
From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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Does Someone knows about any Linux port to Atmel AT91EB01 (ARM7TDMI
AT91M40400) ??? 


-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct 14 14:27:24 2000
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:27:00 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
Cc: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
Subject: Re: linux port ...
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On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 02:39:10AM +0200, Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo wrote:
> Does Someone knows about any Linux port to Atmel AT91EB01 (ARM7TDMI
> AT91M40400) ??? 

I think you'd better ask this on the linux-arm-kernel mailing list:
linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk .


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 16 04:05:17 2000
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I've recently purchased a lot of SA-1100 and I have 10 extra for sale...

My target price is $75.00 USD each + Shipping...

First come first serve.

Hugues Belanger



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 16 05:18:57 2000
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From: "Arthur Strutzenberg" 
To: 
Subject: question about circuit board creation...
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:28:56 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C036E6.8B065580
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I'm definately a pale green newbie when it comes to circuit board =
generation....I have been doing a bit of reading about creating =
PCBs....The question I have has to do with using a "pen" to color in the =
area that you want to keep on the board (or vice versa), then you wash =
away the remenents...What I was thinking, was has anybody ever done this =
technique using a plotter? ie you put your board down on the plotter, =
and have it draw out the board from a gerber file.....it would probably =
take some doing to have it set up properly, and I know registration =
would be a ***** to keep straight (I was thinking of using a board a bit =
bigger on one of the sides, and then drilling a couple of holes...then =
build a mounting bracket on the plotter, that the board would rest in.  =
What I was wondering was would this idea even work, or am I a bit =
crazier than usual....


--Arthur Strutzenberg

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C036E6.8B065580
Content-Type: text/html;
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I'm definately a pale green newbie when =
it comes to=20
circuit board generation....I have been doing a bit of reading about =
creating=20
PCBs....The question I have has to do with using a "pen" to color in the =
area=20
that you want to keep on the board (or vice versa), then you wash away =
the=20
remenents...What I was thinking, was has anybody ever done this =
technique using=20
a plotter? ie you put your board down on the plotter, and have it draw =
out the=20
board from a gerber file.....it would probably take some doing to have =
it set up=20
properly, and I know registration would be a ***** to keep straight (I =
was=20
thinking of using a board a bit bigger on one of the sides, and then =
drilling a=20
couple of holes...then build a mounting bracket on the plotter, that the =
board=20
would rest in.  What I was wondering was would this idea even work, =
or am I=20
a bit crazier than usual....


 


 


--Arthur =
Strutzenberg


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C036E6.8B065580--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 16 14:47:01 2000
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:35:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: question about circuit board creation...
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Dunno about using a plotter, but I've heard from a couple people who've had 
success using an ink-jet printer to print their layout on shiny paper (like 
magazine pages - the one guy uses pages out of TIME), and then used an iron to 
transfer the ink to the board.

Never tried it myself, tho.  And you were right the first time.  The acid you 
soak the board in eats all the copper you don't have covered.

>I'm definately a pale green newbie when it comes to circuit board 
generation....I have been doing a bit of reading about creating PCBs....The 
question I have has to do with using a "pen" to color in the area that you want 
to keep on the board (or vice versa), then you wash away the remenents...What I 
was thinking, was has anybody ever done this technique using a plotter? ie you 
put your board down on the plotter, and have it draw out the board from a gerber 
file.....it would probably take some doing to have it set up properly, and I 
know registration would be a ***** to keep straight (I was thinking of using a 
board a bit bigger on one of the sides, and then drilling a couple of 
holes...then build a mounting bracket on the plotter, that the board would rest 
in.  What I was wondering was would this idea even work, or am I a bit crazier 
than usual....

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 17 11:18:37 2000
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: mahldcat@hotmail.com, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: question about circuit board creation...
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:17:39 GMT
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>
>I'm definately a pale green newbie when it comes to circuit board 
>generation....I have been doing a bit of reading about creating PCBs....The 
>question I have has to do with using a "pen" to color in the area that you 
>want to keep on the board (or vice versa), then you wash away the 
>remenents...What I was thinking, was has anybody ever done this technique 
>using a plotter? ie you put your board down on the plotter, and have it 
>draw out the board from a gerber file.....it would probably take some doing 
>to have it set up properly, and I know registration would be a ***** to 
>keep straight (I was thinking of using a board a bit bigger on one of the 
>sides, and then drilling a couple of holes...then build a mounting bracket 
>on the plotter, that the board would rest in.  What I was wondering was 
>would this idea even work, or am I a bit crazier than usual....

It does work. You need to use special pens with ceramic tips as the ordinary 
ones wear out very quickly. You also need to ensure that the pen doesn't run 
off the board, as this damages the tip. Most PCB CAD packages have a 
pen-plotter output option (HPGL files). You could just tape the board to the 
plotter bed.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel (work): +44 1327 357824 Tel (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221
InfraRed Integrated Systems Ltd., Towcester Mill, Towcester, Northants., 
NN12 6AD, United Kingdom.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct 21 15:54:57 2000
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From: Wen Hong-wei-A17192 
To: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" 
Subject: question about SA1110 boot from flash
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:53:27 +0800
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hi,

I have an assabet board with J3 flash,and I get blob-1.0.8-pre2 from internet.
I compile out the blob,and zImage.
I jflash the blob in block 0 and zImage in block 1.After I power on the board,blob start correctly,
but when "starting kernel...",there is nothing happen.
can you help me to boot zImage?

thanks a lot.

david wen
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct 21 19:15:57 2000
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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:15:26 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Wen Hong-wei-A17192 
Cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" 
Subject: Re: question about SA1110 boot from flash
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On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 09:53:27PM +0800, Wen Hong-wei-A17192 wrote:
> I have an assabet board with J3 flash,and I get blob-1.0.8-pre2 from
> internet.
> I compile out the blob,and zImage.
> I jflash the blob in block 0 and zImage in block 1.After I power on
> the board,blob start correctly,
> but when "starting kernel...",there is nothing happen.
> can you help me to boot zImage?

There are several things to check:

- Use the latest linux kernel. I'm currently using
  linux-2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np2. Nicolas Pitre released test9-rmk1-np1,
  but I haven't tested it yet, though I assume it is stable because
  Nico also develops on Assabet.
- When configuring the kernel, _disable_ "Load kernel using Angel Debug
  Monitor" (it's in "System Type" --> "SA11x0 Implementations").
- The file drivers/block/flash_mem.h defines where the Assabet expects
  the zImage and ramdisk.

If you can't get it to work with a flashed zImage, you should try it
with a downloaded zImage (using the blob command "download kernel"). If
that one boots, you have to write the zImage in flash at another
address.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 23 16:23:41 2000
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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:49:24 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Building LARTs - component queries
To: LART list 
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Hello people,
We've recently made some progress on building a batch of LARTs which we will
make available for sale once built.

Getting the parts has always been the stumbling block but we have got
availability on just about everything needed apart from a few hard-to get
capacitors and resistors (it's a funny old world where R's and C's are in
short supply! - '14 weeks' is quoted for many at the moment), which we expect
to be able to find or substitute.

However a couple of queries have arisen which I need help with.

1) The Intel Flash chips DT28F160F3B-XXX (56 lead SSOP) is described as 'part
call out is a Bottom Boot part, it is allocated and not available. Same part
in Top Boot call out is available.

Does anyone here know what 'top boot' and 'bottom boot' mean in this context.
(speed/cycle lifetime/handedness?)  Is this an acceptable substitution?

2) The AVR low ESR capacitors are very difficult to get.

Can the designers or other builders comment on the permitted tolerances here?
These look like part of the power-control/anti-ripple circuitry so the
low-ESR bit is presumably important. Any clues on what ESR spec will suffice
and how much laerger/smaller the values can be? (any sufficicent voltage will
presumably suffice).

Are these, in fact, just straight out of the Maxim datasheets? And I should
look at them for such details?

We are currently aiming to build a batch of 20, and expect a price of
something around GBP500. If you are interested in getting one/some of these
then email info@aleph1.co.uk (we already have quite a long list!). Assuming
we can sort out the above, and there are no further component problems then I
hope manufacture will start in a couple of weeks.

TIA

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 23 17:26:46 2000
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Wookey wrote:

> Hello people,
> We've recently made some progress on building a batch of LARTs which we will
> make available for sale once built.

Yaay. Top man!

Rs & Cs - mail me offline and I'll have a rummage. 

> However a couple of queries have arisen which I need help with.

> Does anyone here know what 'top boot' and 'bottom boot' mean in this context.
> (speed/cycle lifetime/handedness?)  Is this an acceptable substitution?

Yeah - there's a bunch of smaller sectors, huddled at one end or other of
the chip. They're a pain in the arse, to be honest, if you don't need
them (which we don't seem to). I'll frig the source to the jtag loader to
compensate, it's not hard. I suspect the Blobbers will also need to
adjust, although they may be less hard-coded than the jtag proglet. 
 
> 2) The AVR low ESR capacitors are very difficult to get. 

Indeed. It's possible that pin-mount parts would be easier to get, and
there's nothing to stop you bodging them onto the pads. I can't remember
what the spec calls out for, but I suspect that there's some latitude,
especially as the Lart isn't too sensitive to ripple. Are these going to
be Lart4s?

Let me know what you need, I've got a fair amount of stock at the
moment. (but damn all flash...)

Steve  

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 02:05:11 2000
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Building LARTs - component queries
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>> Does anyone here know what 'top boot' and 'bottom boot' mean in this
>>context.
>> (speed/cycle lifetime/handedness?)  Is this an acceptable substitution?
>
>Yeah - there's a bunch of smaller sectors, huddled at one end or other of
>the chip. They're a pain in the arse, to be honest, if you don't need
>them (which we don't seem to). I'll frig the source to the jtag loader to
>compensate, it's not hard. I suspect the Blobbers will also need to
>adjust, although they may be less hard-coded than the jtag proglet.

Offhand I'd say we need few or no changes for blob.

>> 2) The AVR low ESR capacitors are very difficult to get.
>
>Indeed. It's possible that pin-mount parts would be easier to get, and
>there's nothing to stop you bodging them onto the pads. I can't remember
>what the spec calls out for, but I suspect that there's some latitude,
>especially as the Lart isn't too sensitive to ripple.

It depends. I've seen quite some ripple even with low-ESR devices; too much
PSU ripple can cause spurious resets and the like. ESR-values better than
0.2 Ohm per cap should do; the capacitance itself is not too critical (>=
47 uF). Also AVR aren't the only ones producing these caps; try Panasonic
and Vishay/Sprague to name but two.

JDB.
[happily running a LART Rev4 with 100uF 10V low-ESR caps everywhere]

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 12:51:34 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
X-Mailer: Daum Web Mailer 1.0
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:41:57 KST
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Hello.
I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.

Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?

I want to use global variables in C code, 
but when I use original  file and when I tried to access the global variables, it has its value as 0.
As I think, it's because .data area is assigned to ROM (flash memory).
So, I re-write the  file to assign .data to RAM (0xC0000000 ~).
In  file,
MEMORY
{
	ROM (rx)	: org = 0x00000000, l = 16M
	RAM (!rx)	: org = 0xC0000000, l = 16M
}

SECTIONS
{
    . = ALIGN(4);
    .text : 
      { 
        *(.text) ; 
        *(.got.plt) *(.got); 
        TEXT_END = .; 
      } 

    . = ALIGN(4);
    .rodata : { *(.rodata) }

    .data 0xC0000000:
      { 
        DATA_START = . ; 
        *(.data) *(COMMON); 
        DATA_END = .; 
      }
}

or 

    .data :
      { 
        DATA_START = . ; 
        *(.data) *(COMMON); 
        DATA_END = .; 
      }   > RAM

I am trying as above, but whenever I compile bootloader, there occurs an error of OBJCOPY.

The objcopy command and error message are ...
==========================================================
(command)
 arm-linux-objcopy -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S blob-elf32 blob
----------------------------------------------------------
(error message)
 BFD: Warning: Writing section '.data' to huge (ie negative) file offset 0xc0000000.
 arm-linux-objcopy: blob: File truncated
==========================================================
I don't know why objcopy did like above.
Please someone tell me the reason or solution.
Thanks.


==================================================
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 13:32:00 2000
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:30:33 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Gagamel 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
> 
> Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
> 
> I want to use global variables in C code, 

Simple answer: that doesn't work. Don't use global variables. Avoid
global variables by using local variables in c_main() and pass pointers
to functions that need those variables (most functions need the
parameters status or commandline).


Complicated answer: you can get it to work if you write some code that
mimics a runtime linker. That means that you have to write a tool that
copies the .data section from flash to RAM, relocates all .data
references in the blob binary, initializes a .bss segment in ram and
relocates all .bss variables (i.e.: variables initialized at 0).

I don't think it's too much effort to write such a tool. Just follow
the Holy Principle of Engineering: KISS[1]. In this case that means:
don't use global variables. Note that you probably _can_ use read only
global data (like "const int foo=42").


Erik

[1] Keep It Simple, Stupid

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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cc: Gagamel , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> > I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
> > 
> > Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
> > 
> > I want to use global variables in C code, 
> 
> Simple answer: that doesn't work. Don't use global variables. Avoid
> global variables by using local variables in c_main() and pass pointers
> to functions that need those variables (most functions need the
> parameters status or commandline).


Nothing prevents you from using global variables located in the .BSS
segment though, i.e. global variables that aren't initialized at all (even
not to 0).

Then the linker only needs to be told the .BSS segment address is
something like 0xc0100000.  The entry code just has to clear the .BSS
section in ram before jumping to C functions.


Nicolas

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:14:44 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Nicolas Pitre 
Cc: Gagamel , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:45:03AM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> > > I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
> > > 
> > > Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
> > > 
> > > I want to use global variables in C code, 
> > 
> > Simple answer: that doesn't work. Don't use global variables. Avoid
> > global variables by using local variables in c_main() and pass pointers
> > to functions that need those variables (most functions need the
> > parameters status or commandline).
> 
> Nothing prevents you from using global variables located in the .BSS
> segment though, i.e. global variables that aren't initialized at all (even
> not to 0).

I don't know if it is part of the C standard, but uninitialised
variables are always initialised with 0 by the runtime linker. There was
a thread about this on the linux-kernel mailing list, and the bottom
line was that all Unix systems did it. This was of course not the main
reason to implement it in the Linux kernel, the main reason was that
using a o initialised .bss segment slimmed down the kernel image size.

> Then the linker only needs to be told the .BSS segment address is
> something like 0xc0100000.  The entry code just has to clear the .BSS
> section in ram before jumping to C functions.

Yes, you're right. Unitialised data shouldn't be a problem with the
correct segment address. Initialesed data is a bit harder to do and
would require some tough relocating.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: Nicolas Pitre 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: [RE]Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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---------------------------------------------------------
From : Nicolas Pitre 
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
>>> > I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
>>> > 
>>> > Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
>>> > 
>>> > I want to use global variables in C code, 
>>> 
>>> Simple answer: that doesn't work. Don't use global variables. Avoid
>>> global variables by using local variables in c_main() and pass pointers
>>> to functions that need those variables (most functions need the
>>> parameters status or commandline).
>>
>>
>>Nothing prevents you from using global variables located in the .BSS
>>segment though, i.e. global variables that aren't initialized at all (even
>>not to 0).
>>
>>Then the linker only needs to be told the .BSS segment address is
>>something like 0xc0100000.  The entry code just has to clear the .BSS
>>section in ram before jumping to C functions.
>>
>>
>>Nicolas
>>
>>
Yes! But how can I use initialized data?
When I build blob, I use --set-section-flags to objcopy.
And then I can use uninitialized global variable. But when I try to access initialized data, their values are unexpected.  When I used diab compiler before, there are some special global variables that the compiler offer.
The variables have the value, i.e. the start and end location of data (initialized) and code in binary file. 
So I could copy the region of data and code in ROM to the RAM.  After booting, initializing HW and then I jump to the code area in RAM.
But I tried to find these kind of variable and other method in gcc and ld, I couldn't do.

Do you know the method about this?
In GNU tools, if my thought was wrong, please correct it.



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 16:39:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:39:30 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Gagamel 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: [RE]Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 10:47:58PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:

[Also CC-ed to the LART list, there are more people with of knowledge
 of linker scripts than just me]

> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >From : Erik Mouw 
> >>On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> >>> I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
> >>> 
> >>> Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
> >>> 
> >>> I want to use global variables in C code, 
> >>
> >>Complicated answer: you can get it to work if you write some code that
> >>mimics a runtime linker. That means that you have to write a tool that
> >>copies the .data section from flash to RAM, relocates all .data
> >>references in the blob binary, initializes a .bss segment in ram and
> >>relocates all .bss variables (i.e.: variables initialized at 0).
> >>
> >>I don't think it's too much effort to write such a tool. Just follow
> >>the Holy Principle of Engineering: KISS[1]. In this case that means:
> >>don't use global variables. Note that you probably _can_ use read only
> >>global data (like "const int foo=42").
> >>
> Thanks for your advice.
> But I have more questions.
> First, let me explain my work and questions.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, because of speed and other reasons, I rewrote blob that acts
> like below.
>  1. Initialize CPU and registers
>  2. Copy blob image (code+data+...) to RAM
>  3.  register jumps to code in RAM. 
>     The code part is after initializing HW, 
>     before calling C code - c_main ().

Cool!

> In this point, as you know, I couldn't use global variables.
> 
> When I build blob, there was only objcopy error.
> So I thought objcopy recognized the address value as signed one. And
> then... I inserted one more option to objcopy command.

AFAIK addresses are considered unsigned, but I'll have to check the
info files to be sure.

> (--set-section-flags .data=data). And there was no error on objcopy,
> I could use global variables. When I checked map file, the global
> variables were located in RAM (0xC0000000 ~). But some variable
> didn't act normally.

Can you tell which variables didn't act normally? I guess that the
_initialised_ global variables didn't act like you expected them to do.

> ----------------------------------------------------------
> My questions are ...
> (1) As you said, is this the limitation of ld (or objcopy) ?

Neither. It's a limitation of the system as a whole. As Nico explained,
_unitialised_ global data (which goes in the .bss segment) shouldn't be
a problem, but _initialised_ global data needs relocating.

Of course you can write a relocate module, but I think you should not
initailise the global variables (so they end up in the .bss segment)
and make a function that initialises all global variables. So instead
of:

	int foo = 42;
	int bar = 5;

You have to use:

	int foo;
	int bar;

	void init_all_vars(void)
	{
		foo = 42;
		bar = 5;
	}

	void c_main(char *blockBase, u32 blockSize)
	{
		/* ... */

		init_all_vars();

		/* ... */
	}

It might not look nice, but you have to realise that blob is not a real
program with complete OS support.

> (2) Then, even though I can build blob without errors, I can not
> guerantee the action of blob, can't I ?

No, but that's the general rule in programming: if something compiles
it doesn't mean that it runs.

> Erik, in fact, I can't understand this result clearly.
> I used other compiler, diab on MPC850 until now. 
> At that time, this action was possible and I think a linker has to be
> able to this work.

I suppose that it came with a C library and a runtime linker/relocator
that did the tricks. We don't have that kind of functionality.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 16:44:00 2000
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:45:03AM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 07:41:57PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> > > > I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
> > > > 
> > > > Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
> > > > 
> > > > I want to use global variables in C code, 
> > > 
> > > Simple answer: that doesn't work. Don't use global variables. Avoid
> > > global variables by using local variables in c_main() and pass pointers
> > > to functions that need those variables (most functions need the
> > > parameters status or commandline).
> > 
> > Nothing prevents you from using global variables located in the .BSS
> > segment though, i.e. global variables that aren't initialized at all (even
> > not to 0).
> 
> I don't know if it is part of the C standard, but uninitialised
> variables are always initialised with 0 by the runtime linker. There was
> a thread about this on the linux-kernel mailing list, and the bottom
> line was that all Unix systems did it. This was of course not the main
> reason to implement it in the Linux kernel, the main reason was that
> using a o initialised .bss segment slimmed down the kernel image size.

Yes I know.

My point was that

int a;

will be located in the .bss segment which is initialized to zero on
startup by convention.  However

int a = 0;

will be allocated in the .data section even if it is initialized to zero.
Since .data actually uses space in a binary, it will obviously be stored
in flash in the BLOB case.  Therefore carefully using explicitly
uninitialized global variables is pretty straight forward even when the
binary executable is stored in ROM.

Initialized global variables may be used of course, as long as they are
read-only.  This can be ensured by marking those variables with 'const'.
Therefore using 'const' will push those variables in the .rodata segment
instead of .data and the 'size' command can be used on the ELF file to
verify that .data is actually empty.

That's how I made the kernel zImage run directly from flash and put the
uncompressed kernel be stored at its final location in ram without the
copy from flash and relocation pass.  It saves few millisecs on the boot
time...


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 17:05:41 2000
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From: "Chris Clarke" 
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Subject: KSB and Ethernet
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:05:05 +0100
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I am trying to build a self standing network webcam for my final year
University project.  My supervisor sugested using your lart board to do
this.

Basically, I need to know if you have the gerber files available and a bill
of materials for the KSB and the Ethernet board?  I could also do with some
information on the linux drivers for these boards and if it fits together
ok.

I understand that these may still be under testing but I'm willing to take
that risk.  I really need to get this project on the road.

Chris Clarke



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 24 17:43:34 2000
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Hi.
The best solution for your problem is to run all the code in the RAM. You'll have to add some routine to copy itself
from the flash to the DRAM in the startup.
You just link your code as if all the code runs under the DRAM, that is, text, data , bss and everything to the
address of 0xcXXX XXXX.
Good luck!

Gagamel ÀÛ¼º:

> Hello.
> I use blob-1.0.8-pre2 as bootloader on Assabet BD.
>
> Who knows about method to assign .data area to RAM on Assabet BD?
>
> I want to use global variables in C code,
> but when I use original  file and when I tried to access the global variables, it has its value as 0.
> As I think, it's because .data area is assigned to ROM (flash memory).
> So, I re-write the  file to assign .data to RAM (0xC0000000 ~).
> In  file,
> MEMORY
> {
>         ROM (rx)        : org = 0x00000000, l = 16M
>         RAM (!rx)       : org = 0xC0000000, l = 16M
> }
>
> SECTIONS
> {
>     . = ALIGN(4);
>     .text :
>       {
>         *(.text) ;
>         *(.got.plt) *(.got);
>         TEXT_END = .;
>       }
>
>     . = ALIGN(4);
>     .rodata : { *(.rodata) }
>
>     .data 0xC0000000:
>       {
>         DATA_START = . ;
>         *(.data) *(COMMON);
>         DATA_END = .;
>       }
> }
>
> or
>
>     .data :
>       {
>         DATA_START = . ;
>         *(.data) *(COMMON);
>         DATA_END = .;
>       }   > RAM
>
> I am trying as above, but whenever I compile bootloader, there occurs an error of OBJCOPY.
>
> The objcopy command and error message are ...
> ==========================================================
> (command)
>  arm-linux-objcopy -O binary -R .note -R .comment -S blob-elf32 blob
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> (error message)
>  BFD: Warning: Writing section '.data' to huge (ie negative) file offset 0xc0000000.
>  arm-linux-objcopy: blob: File truncated
> ==========================================================
> I don't know why objcopy did like above.
> Please someone tell me the reason or solution.
> Thanks.
>
> ==================================================
> ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
> Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀϳÝ
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Oct 25 04:38:57 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
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Subject: Re: How can I assign .data area to RAM?
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(I sent another mail to Nicolas and LART mailing list,
but, the mail didn't transfer well.  And the mail that I sent to Erik and LART before was seen as it had only '----' on LART mailing list page. ??? Anyway...) You are right, Erik and Nicolas. On my work, only initialized variables had the problem, they did not have their original values.
So, I did as you recommanded. It did well !!! Because I didn't decided yet whether I write one binary file (bootloader+OS) or two(or more, each of them) binary files to write to the lash, I had to solve this problem.  
Thank very much for your help. 


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Oct 25 20:17:31 2000
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:14:50 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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I'm laying a board for the high speed connector, and I need to find out
a few things about the lart board....


Is the board measured in mm, or mils? 

What are the exact dimensions of the board?

Where are the four bore holes and what are their diameters (and
clearances?)

Where is the power connector?

Where is the high speed connector?

Which pin is pin one on the high speed connector?, pin 2?
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct 27 18:26:47 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:06:24 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: 1110 LART-a-like
To: LART list 
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Hello people, me again.

It looks like we may be able to get an 1110-based LART-like design designed
produced (as open hardware) as a side-effect of other work we are doing.

This is still at an early stage, but things are likely to move quite fast if
it gets the go-ahead so I'd like to get a bit of feedack from this list about
a) the design choices and b) if the LART progenitors are happy with the idea
of this being thought of as 'LART1110'.

Background:
Toby Churchill Ltd make speech synthesisers for disabled people. They need to
build a new machine to replace their aging V30 186-based design. A
StrongARM-based design, almost certainly ARMLinux-powered is their favoured
platform, and we're helping them get it all going.  They need lots of
versatility for a range of different input devices and because they never
know what might be asked for next. 

It is also possible that their Belgian collaborators will come along with
this new platform but they need to keep the hardware cost down as low as
possible. 

So, a new board needs doing whatever happens, and they are happy for at least
the main board to be a public design. This looks like a good opportunity to
get a next-generation LART designed. This should help with the 'bits becoming
obsolete' problem, at least for a while, and provide options for a bigger
platform for those who like the idea but a LART isn't quite enough.

The only problem with getting this done on the back of the main project is
that it affects the spec. The LART idea of having a minimal but independent
main board + separate IO boards for whatever you need to drive makes a lot of
sense, but in this case the minimum is going to go up a bit as they need a
lot of RAM and flash for the speech synthesis stuff and to accommodate the
needs of the Belgian's one-cheap-board design it also needs an audio codec.

So we have a preliminary design (made up yesterday - subject to change
:-) that looks like this:
SA1110, 
Jtag header
64Mb SDRAM, 
64Mb Flash, 
Serial port (IRDA option as it just needs a little space for the LEDs), with
a transceiver capable of waking up the SA on data in.
Stereo Audio Codec, eg UDA1341
expansion connector - if we can make it compatible with the LART one we will,
but we need to check the SA1110/1111 interface vs the current spec to see if
this will work. I'll need some advice here I expect.
power stuff
Low standby power is very important.

That lot may end up coming out a bit bigger than the LART, depending mostly
on the RAM layout. We'd hope to be able to offer cheaper memory configs where
they fit in the same space.

Various IO boards could be envisaged but the one that Toby Churchill want 
will be something like this:
Connector, 
SA1111
CF+PCMCIA slots
4 serial ports
8 bit general purpose (slow) bus.
Battery controller (prob Li-ion)
touchscreen and LCD headers.

This board may or may not be made open hardware - some people may need
persuading ;-)

So, we welcome comments on this. Is it too much/too little/too expensive/too
big/not appropriate to be considerd a LART-alike as it's not really minimal
enough?

At this stage the hardware man has gone off to scratch his head about how
much this is all going to cost (give or take a few grand), when it might get
done and how big the board will be. Stuff you suggest now will certainly be
considered for incorporation if it doesn't significantly affect TCs aims.
Target is to have first boards done by January.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Oct 27 22:46:36 2000
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:45:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Robert Ferney 
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Subject: Re: 1110 LART-a-like
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IMHO as a lurker for a fiew weeks, 

I think this would be an eccelent opertunity to solve some
problems. Here's my take.
The main problem with a SA1110 chip LART is the fact that the BGA
connection that the SA1110 uses is a little bit beyond the tools that the
average home hobbiest has to work with. 
It sounds like Toby Churchill Ltd. is an entity that would be using this
board en mass, which would allow them to overcome the problem with the
BGA, by manufacturing the boards.
I would love to be able to play with a LART board, but I don't want to
have to put it together. and if I can get a SA1110 LART board, so that I
can play with, by ordering it from someone that has the capibility of
making it.
Though I would sugest having a standard rs232 serial header as well as the
IR, as it would be easier for the average joe to interface with. I also
think that the extra memory isn't a bad thing. 
as far as the audio capibilities in the main board, this could have alot
of possibilities. 

Just my $.02
-Rob

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Wookey wrote:
> Hello people, me again.
> 
> It looks like we may be able to get an 1110-based LART-like design designed
> produced (as open hardware) as a side-effect of other work we are doing.
>--snip--
> Background:
> Toby Churchill Ltd make speech synthesisers for disabled people. They need to
> build a new machine to replace their aging V30 186-based design. A
> StrongARM-based design, almost certainly ARMLinux-powered is their favoured
> platform, and we're helping them get it all going.  They need lots of
> versatility for a range of different input devices and because they never
> know what might be asked for next. 
>--snip--- 
> The only problem with getting this done on the back of the main project is
> that it affects the spec. The LART idea of having a minimal but independent
> main board + separate IO boards for whatever you need to drive makes a lot of
> sense, but in this case the minimum is going to go up a bit as they need a
> lot of RAM and flash for the speech synthesis stuff and to accommodate the
> needs of the Belgian's one-cheap-board design it also needs an audio codec.
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Oct 29 05:17:18 2000
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Just dropping a line to see if anybody has explored the possibility of using an EEPROM/SRAM to store BLOB then just download the kernel to DRAM if they want to 
reboot or to load a new kernel. In some cases use a Hard Drive to store everything...

It's just that Flash is never available anymore, so I am wondering if somebody has actually used another device to get the LART up and running ?

I currently have Three SA Processors (one at 133MHz and two at 220MHz) and all the free components to build three, but no Flash or DRAM as yet.


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Oct 30 13:49:24 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: About calling subroutine using function variable in RAM.
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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:39:00 KST
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Hi.
I've found a strange thing in some tests.
If anyone know the reason, please answer my question...

As I mentioned before, I am working in a little different work 
with blob on Assabet-like BD.

(1) I run the blob code in flash.
(2) After initializing registers for HW init, I copy code to RAM.
(3) Jump to the code in the RAM.
(4) Call c_main.
In this case, pc value is gt 0xc0000000 even in c code.
Because bl command is base on pc register(pc=pc+), 
I think it is proper that all of code (subroutine, ...) is executed in RAM.
But there was one exception.
It is the case of calling subroutine by function variable.
When I checked pc register value on every cases of calling subroutine, 
the pc register value in the subroutine was gt 0xc0000000. 

int help();
int (*func());
...
func = help;
func();
...
In this case, when I checked pc register value in func(),
the pc value was in ROM area. Is it normal case? I can't understand the reason.
I think it is not normal case, so I disassembled this code.
In the disassembled code, there was b not bl.
As I know, the different point between bl and b is about only lr.
Is wrong my thought ?



==================================================
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 31 13:47:55 2000
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:48:29 +0900
From: "K. Young Park" 
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To: Gagamel , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: About calling subroutine using function variable in RAM.
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Hi,
How did you make your ld-script?
Did you correltly link your code with all the text, data, and etc. in the RAM area?

If not, the problem can happen. You can solve the problem just by re-writing your
ld-script.
But if yes, it's really weird. In that case, just dis-assemble the code and see how
the address
of the function is referred.

Gagamel ÀÛ¼º:

> Hi.
> I've found a strange thing in some tests.
> If anyone know the reason, please answer my question...
>
> As I mentioned before, I am working in a little different work
> with blob on Assabet-like BD.
>
> (1) I run the blob code in flash.
> (2) After initializing registers for HW init, I copy code to RAM.
> (3) Jump to the code in the RAM.
> (4) Call c_main.
> In this case, pc value is gt 0xc0000000 even in c code.
> Because bl command is base on pc register(pc=pc+),
> I think it is proper that all of code (subroutine, ...) is executed in RAM.
> But there was one exception.
> It is the case of calling subroutine by function variable.
> When I checked pc register value on every cases of calling subroutine,
> the pc register value in the subroutine was gt 0xc0000000.
>
> int help();
> int (*func());
> ...
> ffunc = help;
> func();
> ...
> IIn this case, when I checked pc register value in func(),
> the pc value was in ROM area. Is it normal case? I can't understand the reason.
> I think it is not normal case, so I disassembled this code.
> In the disassembled code, there was b not bl.
> As I know, the different point between bl and b is about only lr.
> Is wrong my thought ?
>
> ==================================================
> ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
> Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀϳÝ
> Áö±¸ÃÌ ÇÑ±Û °Ë»ö¼­ºñ½º Daum FIREBALL
> http://www.daum.net
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Oct 31 20:22:07 2000
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:48:29 +0900
From: "K. Young Park" 
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To: Gagamel , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: About calling subroutine using function variable in RAM.
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Hi,
How did you make your ld-script?
Did you correltly link your code with all the text, data, and etc. in the RAM area?

If not, the problem can happen. You can solve the problem just by re-writing your
ld-script.
But if yes, it's really weird. In that case, just dis-assemble the code and see how
the address
of the function is referred.

Gagamel ÀÛ¼º:

> Hi.
> I've found a strange thing in some tests.
> If anyone know the reason, please answer my question...
>
> As I mentioned before, I am working in a little different work
> with blob on Assabet-like BD.
>
> (1) I run the blob code in flash.
> (2) After initializing registers for HW init, I copy code to RAM.
> (3) Jump to the code in the RAM.
> (4) Call c_main.
> In this case, pc value is gt 0xc0000000 even in c code.
> Because bl command is base on pc register(pc=pc+),
> I think it is proper that all of code (subroutine, ...) is executed in RAM.
> But there was one exception.
> It is the case of calling subroutine by function variable.
> When I checked pc register value on every cases of calling subroutine,
> the pc register value in the subroutine was gt 0xc0000000.
>
> int help();
> int (*func());
> ...
> ffunc = help;
> func();
> ...
> IIn this case, when I checked pc register value in func(),
> the pc value was in ROM area. Is it normal case? I can't understand the reason.
> I think it is not normal case, so I disassembled this code.
> In the disassembled code, there was b not bl.
> As I know, the different point between bl and b is about only lr.
> Is wrong my thought ?
>
> ==================================================
> ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
> Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀϳÝ
> Áö±¸ÃÌ ÇÑ±Û °Ë»ö¼­ºñ½º Daum FIREBALL
> http://www.daum.net
> --
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> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov  1 09:49:55 2000
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From: "Gagamel" 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Dear K. Young Park --
 
I understood your words. 
Of course, as you said, originally I have to rewrite ld-script 
to run code in RAM that links text area to RAM.
But in that case, I has to write two(or more) binary file.
One is a image that text area is linked to ROM (i.e. boot loader),
and the other(s) is linked to RAM (i.e. kernel code).
I did work differently with it.
I tried to write only one image file. 
So text and rodata area are linked to ROM, 
and other areas (data, ...) are linked to RAM.
After the system booting(of course I init regs for HW), 
I copy all of the code to RAM and I make it jump to RAM.
 
(In this case, pc value is normally gt 0xC0000000 [RAM]
- this address is right address I copied and jump, 
and data area is located in RAM.)

Every condition has no problem except one.
When subroutine call in RAM code, general function call has no problem,
but in the case of subroutine call using function variable,
   --->  i.e.  int (*func());
the subroutine is executed in ROM area.  I said this situation.  
Do you know the reason?


==================================================
¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀϳÝ
Áö±¸ÃÌ ÇÑ±Û °Ë»ö¼­ºñ½º Daum FIREBALL
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov  1 11:11:06 2000
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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:09:41 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Gagamel 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, "K.YoungPark" 
Subject: Re: your mail
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On Wed, Nov 01, 2000 at 05:42:33PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> I tried to write only one image file. 
> So text and rodata area are linked to ROM, 
> and other areas (data, ...) are linked to RAM.
> After the system booting(of course I init regs for HW), 
> I copy all of the code to RAM and I make it jump to RAM.
>  
> (In this case, pc value is normally gt 0xC0000000 [RAM]
> - this address is right address I copied and jump, 
> and data area is located in RAM.)
> 
> Every condition has no problem except one.
> When subroutine call in RAM code, general function call has no problem,
> but in the case of subroutine call using function variable,
>    --->  i.e.  int (*func());
> the subroutine is executed in ROM area.  I said this situation.  
> Do you know the reason?

Yes. Normal function calls are relative to the current location of the
program counter. Function calls via function pointers use the absolute
address of the function. So the relative call:

	bl	pc + #0x20

is OK, while the absolute call:

	bl	#0x20

will fail.

The solution is quite easy: add 0xc0000000 to all your function
pointers:

	funcptr = foo + 0xc000000;


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov  1 12:53:21 2000
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From: "K. Young Park" 
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Hi,
I think your link method caused the problem. You said that your code is
copying itself from the ROM to RAM and the code
is executed in the RAM.
Then you'll have to link your code with all the text and rodata in the
RAM.
The code generated by the GCC can be placed anywhere regardless of the
ld-script location. But the location of global variable or function
pointer is  written in the global offset table of the code which contains
absolute address of variables. So the address of the function which the
function pointer is indicating is in the ROM. Therefore, when your code
jumps to the function indicated by the
function pointer, it will jump to the ROM area.
To solve your problem,
1. link all your code including the text and rodata to be located in the
RAM.
2. Write your code to the ROM
3. The startup part of the code should copy itself from ROM to RAM, then
jump to RAM.
This procedure will solve your problem. If you have time, analyze the code
generated by GCC. Then you can completely understand
the mechanism.

Some friend of mine call me the smurf. So I hate Gagamel.(^_^)
Good luck.


Gagamel wrote:

> Dear K. Young Park --
>
> I understood your words.
> Of course, as you said, originally I have to rewrite ld-script
> to run code in RAM that links text area to RAM.
> But in that case, I has to write two(or more) binary file.
> One is a image that text area is linked to ROM (i.e. boot loader),
> and the other(s) is linked to RAM (i.e. kernel code).
> I did work differently with it.
> I tried to write only one image file.
> So text and rodata area are linked to ROM,
> and other areas (data, ...) are linked to RAM.
> After the system booting(of course I init regs for HW),
> I copy all of the code to RAM and I make it jump to RAM.
>
> (In this case, pc value is normally gt 0xC0000000 [RAM]
> - this address is right address I copied and jump,
> and data area is located in RAM.)
>
> Every condition has no problem except one.
> When subroutine call in RAM code, general function call has no problem,
> but in the case of subroutine call using function variable,
>    --->  i.e.  int (*func());
> the subroutine is executed in ROM area.  I said this situation.
> Do you know the reason?
>
> ==================================================
> ¿ì¸® ÀÎÅͳÝ, Daum
> Æò»ý ¾²´Â ¹«·á E-mail ÁÖ¼Ò ÇѸÞÀϳÝ
> Áö±¸ÃÌ ÇÑ±Û °Ë»ö¼­ºñ½º Daum FIREBALL
> http://www.daum.net
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 08:42:23 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:40:31 +1000
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From: Matt Donohoe 
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I was looking at DigiKey and am wondering if LART could use these units?

TC58FVT160FT-85-ND 16MBIT 3V CMOS FLASH 48-TSOP Top 
Boot Block arranged as 2M x 8 or 1M x 16

They are only $9.16 each!

There is a Bottom Boot Block version as well.
There are 180 available so I am wondering if these can be used ?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 11:15:36 2000
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At 08:40 +0100 12-11-2000, Matt Donohoe wrote:
>I was looking at DigiKey and am wondering if LART could use these units?

No.

JDB.

--
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                     -- Arthur Kasspe


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 17:43:17 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:47:08 -0500
From: Hugues Belanger 
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Is the LART dying ?

I've been following this list for almos eight months now and this is the
slowest it ever been..

Has anyone built the Rev 4.0 board ? I've been trying to source the parts
for several weeks and still can get half the parts....
If someone manages to built and assemble the rev 4.0 let me know I'll
purchase at least 10..

Thanks

Hugues

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 19:29:17 2000
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From: Adalbert Gubo 
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I just received 10 Rev 4.0 pcb's ( without Silkscreen on it ) but I
can't get
the parts. If there is someone who has parts but no pcb, let me know.

Thanks Bert

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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:47:08 -0500
From: Hugues Belanger 
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Is the LART dying ?

I've been following this list for almos eight months now and this is the
slowest it ever been..

Has anyone built the Rev 4.0 board ? I've been trying to source the parts
for several weeks and still can get half the parts....
If someone manages to built and assemble the rev 4.0 let me know I'll
purchase at least 10..

Thanks

Hugues

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 22:01:40 2000
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From: "Glynn Harris" 
To: 
Subject: LART is still birthing.
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Hi-- as a "silent" subscriber to the list in general, I thought I might just
respond to the "slowness" issue brought up by Hugues Belanger.

I myself want a LART. My own purposes for it have little to do with Linux;
rather, I'd like to develop dedicated-purpose firmware for my application,
and though Linux tools can be helpful in this, Linux won't provide any code
or functionality to my machine. The LART list is all I've subscribed to, so
far.

I've read a lot of those messages that made up the busy times for this list,
Hugues. Messages tend to ebb and flow according to the issues of the moment,
don't they?

There have been a lot of messages from the beginning which were looking for
information on the CAPABILITIES of the LART. Messages like 'can the LART be
used to shave my cat', or 'I'd like to parallel 50 LARTs to make one big
WebTV processor-- can this be done?' But the capabilities of the LART, once
sort of a mystery, are being pretty-well documented now on the LART web-page
and FAQ. A prospective user/developer can see its strengths and weaknesses
and evaluate for himself whether the LART is the right tool.

Some of the messages concern the DEVELOPMENT AIMS and PROSPECTIVE STRUCTURE
of the nascent LART design. As LART has matured into actual boards and
peripherals, there is less discussion on whys and why-nots-- JDB and EM have
done a wonderful job explaining how things stand on LART design and what the
team has aimed to accomplish with each LART permutation, the KSB, the
software, etc.

In the meantime, a separate mail-list has been developed specifically to
deal with Linux issues-- a lot of traffic thus moved from this LART list.
Software development is slow, but it always generates a lot of threads on
arcane topics-- the second, "Linux" list makes answers to these easier to
find.

Right now the BIG issues on this LART list mostly concern MACHINE PRODUCTION
issues. Parts availability is the main one; also whether boards are being
produced, by whom, and if they are going to be made available commercially.
This means that people are actually trying to DO a LART, and this includes
people like me, who have an interest and an application for LART, but who do
not have the manufacturing capabilities at hand to get one done from
scratch. Needless to say, parts and product are not always easy to obtain.
More of a function of the suppliers-- and they are not incredibly supportive
of small-run consumers.

The LART is not dying in my opinion. It's not a time to be nervous. Get lots
of  real live LARTs in the hands of folks like me who want to DO STUFF with
them, and you'll see a lively community. I'm busy studying how to do what I
want to do, preparing for the time I will get a LART.

In that vein, I have obtained Steve Furber's books on ARM architecture, and
read what I could of Intel's PDFs on the StrongARM. A lot of what a
developer like me could learn about LART (and whether my application would
work) would be facilitated with an emulator of the SA-1110, especially with
simulated facilities similar to what LART offers. ARM Ltd is happy to sell
tools that would work-- but just consider the expense and learning-curve of
obtaining and using these tools. Okay for commercial developers (and
universities who care), but a lone developer tends to choke at getting
involved with even a FREE 60-day-time-limited eval copy of a $4500
development kit that is heavily dependent on $2000 commercial boards and
$3000 ICE tools and such.

Which leaves EITHER having a LART itself, or WRITING a LART emulation (based
on documentation-- ha!!!), or waiting for someone to do that job and offer
it for cheap or free-- and the first option seems a lot more realistic than
the others. So, chicken and egg, development will likely accelerate when
LARTs (or cheap but complete emulation tools) are out there to play with....

Regards,
Glynn Harris
grharris@altinet.net



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Nov 12 23:26:36 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:21:13 +0100
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
Cc: "Simon Labrecque" 
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[resending for "Simon Labrecque" ]

I've been following this list for a lonnnng time too... And I agree that its
the slowest it ever been. Maybe all the hype we got after Slashdot is now
gone... but anyway.

I've been waiting eagerly for someone to build a batch of rev 4 boards, as
some ppl said that they would build some of them when the hardware
distribution would go out. Well, it's now out, and no news yet. It would be
a GREAT idea to try to make a list of ppl that still wants 1 or more board,
so we can build them cheap. Common guys, for the past ~4 months we've been
saying that once rev 4 would be out, we would build some... It's now the
time to move!

I'm sure a lot of ppl are still interested in getting a fully assembled
board. I understand that the parts are hard to find, but at least tell us
that you're actually trying to build a batch, so we can still have hope :)
Thanks a lot.

Simon Labrecque



>Is the LART dying ?
>
>I've been following this list for almos eight months now and this is the
>slowest it ever been..

>Has anyone built the Rev 4.0 board ? I've been trying to source the parts
>for several weeks and still can get half the parts....
>If someone manages to built and assemble the rev 4.0 let me know I'll
>purchase at least 10..
>
>Thanks
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 00:10:56 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:16:12 -0500
From: Anthony Liguori 
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Having the desire to play with some Larts but lacking the equipment to 
assemble has kept me from it.  I think that some kind of script on the 
website to pre-order assembled and fab'd boards would a very good idea.  
Maybe someone would want to organize it?  I know I'd want a couple...

Regards,
Anthony Liguori
WOWIS!!!
Software Consultant
http://www.wowis.com

J.D. Bakker wrote:

> [resending for "Simon Labrecque" ]
> 
> I've been following this list for a lonnnng time too... And I agree that its
> the slowest it ever been. Maybe all the hype we got after Slashdot is now
> gone... but anyway.
> 
> I've been waiting eagerly for someone to build a batch of rev 4 boards, as
> some ppl said that they would build some of them when the hardware
> distribution would go out. Well, it's now out, and no news yet. It would be
> a GREAT idea to try to make a list of ppl that still wants 1 or more board,
> so we can build them cheap. Common guys, for the past ~4 months we've been
> saying that once rev 4 would be out, we would build some... It's now the
> time to move!
> 
> I'm sure a lot of ppl are still interested in getting a fully assembled
> board. I understand that the parts are hard to find, but at least tell us
> that you're actually trying to build a batch, so we can still have hope :)
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Simon Labrecque
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Is the LART dying ?
>> 
>> I've been following this list for almos eight months now and this is the
>> slowest it ever been..
> 
>> Has anyone built the Rev 4.0 board ? I've been trying to source the parts
>> for several weeks and still can get half the parts....
>> If someone manages to built and assemble the rev 4.0 let me know I'll
>> purchase at least 10..
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
> 
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 00:23:53 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:20:31 +0000
From: Russell Dill 
Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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> I've been following this list for a lonnnng time too... And I agree that its
> the slowest it ever been. Maybe all the hype we got after Slashdot is now
> gone... but anyway.
> 
> I've been waiting eagerly for someone to build a batch of rev 4 boards, as
> some ppl said that they would build some of them when the hardware
> distribution would go out. Well, it's now out, and no news yet. It would be
> a GREAT idea to try to make a list of ppl that still wants 1 or more board,
> so we can build them cheap. Common guys, for the past ~4 months we've been
> saying that once rev 4 would be out, we would build some... It's now the
> time to move!
> 
> I'm sure a lot of ppl are still interested in getting a fully assembled
> board. I understand that the parts are hard to find, but at least tell us
> that you're actually trying to build a batch, so we can still have hope :)
> Thanks a lot.

If I can finish my dual ethernet board, I might be able to start
producing larts in large quantites (with the ability to sell assembled
larts on the side in small quantites).

Which of the GPIO pins on the high speed interface can I use if I don't
have a KSB board?
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 00:48:35 2000
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:45:24 +0000
From: Russell Dill 
Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Reply-to: Russ.Dill@asu.edu
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Anthony Liguori wrote:
> 
> Having the desire to play with some Larts but lacking the equipment to
> assemble has kept me from it.  I think that some kind of script on the
> website to pre-order assembled and fab'd boards would a very good idea.
> Maybe someone would want to organize it?  I know I'd want a couple...
> 
> Regards,
> Anthony Liguori
> WOWIS!!!
> Software Consultant
> http://www.wowis.com

I think you need to step back for a second....
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 10:26:44 2000
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:23:48 +0100
To: Russ.Dill@asu.edu
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 00:20 +0100 13-11-2000, Russell Dill wrote:
>Which of the GPIO pins on the high speed interface can I use if I don't
>have a KSB board?

All of them really; the KSB doesn't share any GPIOs with the hi-speed
interface. It depends what features you an do without:

GPIO21/22 are required if you need busmastering
GPIO23 is used by the OS to control the LED (this can be disabled though)
GPIO26/27 can be programmed to generate various clocks

Offhand I'd suggest using 23 only if you really need all seven.

JDB.

--
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
 I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
 All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
 Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 17:17:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:09:20 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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"J.D. Bakker" wrote:
> 
> At 00:20 +0100 13-11-2000, Russell Dill wrote:
> >Which of the GPIO pins on the high speed interface can I use if I don't
> >have a KSB board?
> 
> All of them really; the KSB doesn't share any GPIOs with the hi-speed
> interface. It depends what features you an do without:
> 
> GPIO21/22 are required if you need busmastering
> GPIO23 is used by the OS to control the LED (this can be disabled though)
> GPIO26/27 can be programmed to generate various clocks
> 
> Offhand I'd suggest using 23 only if you really need all seven.

Ok, will busmastering give me much of a performace increase with the
CS8900A chips? what about GPIO24?

Also, on the high speed connector, which pin is pin one and which pin is
pin 2, just want to verify that
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 13 18:12:27 2000
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At 17:09 +0100 13-11-2000, Russ Dill wrote:
>Ok, will busmastering give me much of a performace increase with the
>CS8900A chips?

Not likely. You'd have to design a state machine around it (in a CPLD or
FPGA) and then handle the cache coherency issues. Ethernet is just too slow
to justify the effort.

> what about GPIO24?

Completely free.

>Also, on the high speed connector, which pin is pin one and which pin is
>pin 2, just want to verify that

That's a bit tricky. If you hold the LART with the processor toward you and
turn it so the hi-speed connector is near the top, it should be (as seen
from above):

 ......... PCB edge .........

  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ............. 50
o <- 0.8mm hole    1.2mm hole -> O
  51 52 53 54 55 56 57 ..... 100

 ........ DRAM chips .........

NOTE: the mating connector has the holes reversed! Assuming it lives on the
solder side (bottom) of your PCB, the pinout should probably look like:

 ......... PCB edge .........

  50 49 48 47 46 45 ........ 2 1
o <- 0.8mm hole    1.2mm hole -> O
  100 99 98 97 96 95 ..... 52 51

 ......... whatever .........

So yes, when you make the boards stackable (ie two mating connectors, each
on either side of the PCB) you end up with two 1.2mm holes.

JDB.

--
In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing
left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
                   -- RFC 1925, "Fundamental Truths of Networking"


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 14 20:26:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:51:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
To: LART list 
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On Sun 12 Nov, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> [resending for "Simon Labrecque" ]

> I've been waiting eagerly for someone to build a batch of rev 4 boards, as
> some ppl said that they would build some of them when the hardware
> distribution would go out. Well, it's now out, and no news yet. It would be
> a GREAT idea to try to make a list of ppl that still wants 1 or more board,
> so we can build them cheap. Common guys, for the past ~4 months we've been
> saying that once rev 4 would be out, we would build some... It's now the
> time to move!
> 
> I'm sure a lot of ppl are still interested in getting a fully assembled
> board. I understand that the parts are hard to find, but at least tell us
> that you're actually trying to build a batch, so we can still have hope :)

Rest assured that we are indeed trying very hard to build real live LARTs
with the express aim of making them available in small quantities to
developers.

I haven't posted for a while as I haven't had much concrete to report but, as
you've asked - here's the curent status.

Our interest in this was revived back in October by some people at Montreal
University who said they had a manufacturer all lined up and could we help
sort it out. We agreed to put up the money and deal with the sales so the
manufacturers wouldn't have end users to talk to, and the university would
get the first boards. It turned out that 'all lined up' meant that the people
were capable of the job and had the gerbers and BOM (for rev3). They went out
looking for bits and found suppliers for most of them except some of the
power-supply bits and some Rs and Cs. I posted to this list about the status
at around that time.

Since then, they have gone rather slow/quiet. Their buyer has left and a new
one has arrived. Nothing has happened since then, about a month ago. So,
we're now talking to a new manfacturer in the UK we have dealt with before
and know are competent people. They have come back with a parts list very
quickly. This has a few bits they can't easily get, and we are working right
now on sourcing those. As soon as we have a full BOM we will do a build, we
are working on building 100 in this first batch. I'll post again when that
happens, or we determine that it is not going to happen anytime soon.

A couple of members of this list replied last time I posted saying 'I've got
some Rs and Cs. Unfortunately I lost those messages in a mailbox disaster.
The ones that are missing are the 47u and 150u low-ESR 16V Tantalums. If
anyone has any we'll buy them. Also if you've got the Maxim 3223ECAP or
LTC1266CS parts we still need a confirmed source for those. 

There may be a few software changes needed depending on which flash type we
end up getting hold of. 

So, that's how far we've got. We've had 2 false starts so far (including our
original go at this back in january, which also stalled when suppliers
couldn't get bits and we focussed our attention elsewhere for a while), but
I think this time we will get there. There don't appear to be any
insurmountable barriers.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov 15 02:01:26 2000
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[Resent for Micheal Kelly ]

I've been looking into having a manufacturer build them here in Ottawa,
Ontario Canada.  A friend works for a company that does a lot of embedded HW
development, and is looking into the possibilities.  I should know more by
the end of next week.

- Mike K.


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov 15 02:28:46 2000
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[Resent on behalf of Pablo Bleyer Kocik ]

Wookey wrote:

> A couple of members of this list replied last time I posted saying 'I've got
> some Rs and Cs. Unfortunately I lost those messages in a mailbox disaster.
> The ones that are missing are the 47u and 150u low-ESR 16V Tantalums. If
> anyone has any we'll buy them. Also if you've got the Maxim 3223ECAP or
> LTC1266CS parts we still need a confirmed source for those.

    … I always check Digikey & Mouser for tantalums. Digikey usually
has Panasonic caps. If you are lucky or buy big quantities you get
small lead times of low esr caps. Otherwise I search in Findchip,
Questlink, Chipcenter or Freetradezone for AVX parts.

    … For most of the MAX devices, you can buy directly from Maxim
(http://shop.maxim-ic.com). Again, if you buy in quantities you can
get a small lead time (tapes are generally in stock, >1000 units ;^/
). I recently bought some of the new MAX3223EEUP there (TSSOP,
extended temp.) --they are still in stock if you want to grab a few of
them.

    … LTC1266CS: Just found 20 parts at AmericaII. I got some in the
past from Digikey.

> There may be a few software changes needed depending on which flash type we
> end up getting hold of.

    Here, we definitely dropped Intel. They even ran out of sample
stock (and now that Wyle is being absorbed by Arrow I don't know if it
will be possible to get Intel samples as easily as before). Lead times
of more than 30 weeks are hilarious. We are currently buying AMD parts
from Future. They have small quantities of some 16mbit devices, and
they frequently have big quantities in stock.

    I recently heard that Fujitsu is working on its own "Strataflash"
version. We are also looking forward to use Toshiba and Hitachi high
density flash devices (hope those Hitachi samples arrive sometime ;^/
).

    BTW, if you need small & medium density CPLDs, now Xilinx is
selling directly from their web site (got my last XC9572XL from
there). They told me they are going to start selling their FPGAs in
the same way in some months.

> So, that's how far we've got. We've had 2 false starts so far (including our
> original go at this back in january, which also stalled when suppliers
> couldn't get bits and we focussed our attention elsewhere for a while), but
> I think this time we will get there. There don't appear to be any
> insurmountable barriers.
>

    Nil desperandum.

    But if you are too desperate --and have lots of money-- you can
always contact a hard to find parts broker.

    Cheers'n'luck!

PS: Recently a dutch company (Protonic, http://www.protonic.nl) placed
an assembly fab 20 minutes from my home here in Chile. They are
building PCBs for the Netherlands and our local market at competitive
prices (they make the PCBs in Europe, though). They can even source
the parts for you (in fact, they told me they prefer to do that with
their own distributors). If --and only if-- you can build an order for
a reasonable number of units (>200 I guess) and you find a responsible
person to orchestrate money matters, then I can quote for a LART run
here and "supervise" it.

    Bye!

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |
pbleyer            |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend
air;
      @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" ó William Blake


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov 15 06:00:47 2000
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Subject: Re: Is the LART dying ?
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>[Resent on behalf of Pablo Bleyer Kocik ]

>PS: Recently a dutch company (Protonic, http://www.protonic.nl) placed
>an assembly fab 20 minutes from my home here in Chile. They are
>building PCBs for the Netherlands and our local market at competitive
>prices (they make the PCBs in Europe, though). They can even source
>the parts for you (in fact, they told me they prefer to do that with
>their own distributors). If --and only if-- you can build an order for
>a reasonable number of units (>200 I guess) and you find a responsible
>person to orchestrate money matters, then I can quote for a LART run
>here and "supervise" it.

>    Bye!

>--
>Pablo Bleyer Kocik |

That sounds good to me. I know it has been said in the past, but we should
set up some kind of web page that would allow us to register for such a
thing. I think its the only reliable solution to keep track of that much
info, considering that you want 200+ units. I would personnaly need ~5 units
for prototyping needs. Anyway, we should organize something to make that
true, and quickly if possible. I FEEL the need to have a LART near me :)

Simon Labrecque
Quebec, Canada


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 16 02:36:20 2000
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Well that answers my questions...!

I wanted to see if they was still interest in this project and by the replies I
got I'm convinced...
I'm in Toronto Ontario and wish to let you in on the opportunity that I've come
across and quite frequently don't have to man power and expertise to make it
append.
But with the help of some key people can become a reality.

I'm a network engineer and I've been playing with Linux, especially Linux
firewall's. I'm currently contracted to built the network infrastructure and
part of this project is to provide a network monitoring solution. This will be
used to monitor several thousands, possibly millions of remote devices (This
could be a lart board). I don't want to spill all the beans cause this is a
confidential project.

So here are my challenges:

1- I'm not a programer.
2- I'm not a hardware engineer.
3- I don't have a lot of capital.

So I need very qualified people that can fill these position and the best my
company can do at this point is offer a % of revenue.

What I can offer:

1- A huge client
2- Network monitoring expertise (SNMP)
3- Contact to built the boards.
4- And possibly someone to finance the board production.
5- A huge client.


So if you are in able to help get in touch and I'll fill you in on the
details...


Hugues Belanger




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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 16 21:36:56 2000
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Simon Labrecque wrote:

> That sounds good to me. I know it has been said in the past, but we should
> set up some kind of web page that would allow us to register for such a
> thing. I think its the only reliable solution to keep track of that much
> info, considering that you want 200+ units. I would personnaly need ~5 units
> for prototyping needs. Anyway, we should organize something to make that
> true, and quickly if possible. I FEEL the need to have a LART near me :)
>
> Simon Labrecque
> Quebec, Canada

    Ok, just visited Protonic and they are working on a quote. They
say that they can work from 50 boards up. That's much less than what I
estimated before (costs per unit are a little bit higher, of course).
However their PCB fab in the Netherlands only has capabilities for 4
layer boards. If we want more than that, then they can outsource or we
can build the PCBs elsewhere and assembly with them. But then, I
guess, it will be cheaper to find another PCB+assembly fab ;^/ .

    Maybe Jan Derk or Erik can call Protonic NL and ask them if they
really don't do 6-layer boards (just in case). Or we can build a
4-layer version of the LART; I think that's no problem. Now, what
really interests me is that these guys can do uBGA with no trouble
because they have an ERSA Hotflow station. Perhaps we can update the
LART design with an SA-1110 or one of the new XScale chips... (Jan
Derk: Is it possible to fit a subset of the CreditLART in a small
4-layer LART-alike board?).

    Cheers!

--
Pablo Bleyer Kocik |
pbleyer            |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend
air;
      @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 16 22:56:48 2000
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:54:46 -0800
From: Dan Carleton 
To: LART 
Subject: EE Intro Books?
Message-ID: <20001116135446.A2696@electro.tribal.org>
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Hey Guys,

I realize this is a little off-topic, but I figured it would be a good
forum to air this question in, given there are so many EE experts here. =)

I'm looking for a good book or web resource from which to glean some
foundation EE concepts.

Anyone know of something along these lines?

Thanks,

- Dan



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 16 23:39:05 2000
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From: Douglas 
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Depends on how basic of EE information you need. For a real EE newbie to just 
get you thinking about, and working on Electronics, I recomend " The Art of 
Electronics" I believe by Harvard Press. Great intro book, It goes from basic 
electricity to embedded cpus. It's oriented towards people in the sciences 
who need to know ASAP how to make their own instrumentation, so there are 
many parts of the subject, it doesn't cover. It's still the fastest jumpstart 
into the subject I've seen. 

On Thursday 16 November 2000 02:54 pm, you wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I realize this is a little off-topic, but I figured it would be a good
> forum to air this question in, given there are so many EE experts here. =)
>
> I'm looking for a good book or web resource from which to glean some
> foundation EE concepts.
>
> Anyone know of something along these lines?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Dan
>
> 
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

-- 
Douglas Moreen
email	allboot@onewest.net
phone	406-375-0566	
web	http://www.allboot.com
mail	AllBoot.Com
	814 Priscilla Way
	Hamilton, MT 59840

	
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 16 23:45:08 2000
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:43:11 -0800
From: Dan Carleton 
To: Douglas 
Cc: LART 
Subject: Re: EE Intro Books?
Message-ID: <20001116144311.B2696@electro.tribal.org>
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Great, thanks.

Sounds like exactly what I need.

- Dan

So uttered the esteemed Douglas:
> Depends on how basic of EE information you need. For a real EE newbie to just 
> get you thinking about, and working on Electronics, I recomend " The Art of 
> Electronics" I believe by Harvard Press. Great intro book, It goes from basic 
> electricity to embedded cpus. It's oriented towards people in the sciences 
> who need to know ASAP how to make their own instrumentation, so there are 
> many parts of the subject, it doesn't cover. It's still the fastest jumpstart 
> into the subject I've seen. 
> 
> On Thursday 16 November 2000 02:54 pm, you wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > I realize this is a little off-topic, but I figured it would be a good
> > forum to air this question in, given there are so many EE experts here. =)
> >
> > I'm looking for a good book or web resource from which to glean some
> > foundation EE concepts.
> >
> > Anyone know of something along these lines?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > - Dan
> >
> > 
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 
> -- 
> Douglas Moreen
> email	allboot@onewest.net
> phone	406-375-0566	
> web	http://www.allboot.com
> mail	AllBoot.Com
> 	814 Priscilla Way
> 	Hamilton, MT 59840
> 
> 	

-- 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 17 10:21:11 2000
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Has anybody used/found a LQFP adaptor that could be used with the SA-1100 chip to 
extend the lengths of its pins or a socket that could be more easily soldered onto the 
board then have the SA CPU just placed in, still allowing it to be removed without much 
work.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 17 11:52:14 2000
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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:48:16 +0100
From: Adalbert Gubo 
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Ilfa, in Hannover Germany made 10 boards for prototyping, they can make
some more, so the boards are not the problem but the parts are.

bert


Pablo Bleyer Kocik wrote:

> Simon Labrecque wrote:
>
> > That sounds good to me. I know it has been said in the past, but we should
> > set up some kind of web page that would allow us to register for such a
> > thing. I think its the only reliable solution to keep track of that much
> > info, considering that you want 200+ units. I would personnaly need ~5 units
> > for prototyping needs. Anyway, we should organize something to make that
> > true, and quickly if possible. I FEEL the need to have a LART near me :)
> >
> > Simon Labrecque
> > Quebec, Canada
>
>     Ok, just visited Protonic and they are working on a quote. They
> say that they can work from 50 boards up. That's much less than what I
> estimated before (costs per unit are a little bit higher, of course).
> However their PCB fab in the Netherlands only has capabilities for 4
> layer boards. If we want more than that, then they can outsource or we
> can build the PCBs elsewhere and assembly with them. But then, I
> guess, it will be cheaper to find another PCB+assembly fab ;^/ .
>
>     Maybe Jan Derk or Erik can call Protonic NL and ask them if they
> really don't do 6-layer boards (just in case). Or we can build a
> 4-layer version of the LART; I think that's no problem. Now, what
> really interests me is that these guys can do uBGA with no trouble
> because they have an ERSA Hotflow station. Perhaps we can update the
> LART design with an SA-1110 or one of the new XScale chips... (Jan
> Derk: Is it possible to fit a subset of the CreditLART in a small
> 4-layer LART-alike board?).
>
>     Cheers!
>
> --
> Pablo Bleyer Kocik |
> pbleyer            |"Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burdend
> air;
>       @embedded.cl | Hungry clouds swag on the deep" — William Blake
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 20 17:47:59 2000
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From: Adalbert Gubo 
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References:  <002c01c04ec0$8096fcc0$30d8c918@ag2k> <3A145460.1E339DDB@embedded.cl> <3A150CF0.25772F60@scanrip.com> <3A151283.3C7626E9@egypt.otn.eurocopter.de>
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we can place an order for 50 bare LART Rev4 boards without silkscreen
and no components on it  this week, and we will get them 18 days after
placing the order.
price: 30,- EURO per one + shipping costs.
but once again, what will someone do with a board but no EDO Rams
or Flash Memos available ?
The LART comunity needs a source for the components also.
Is there a blue sky in the near future ?



"Ralf D. Werner (2000)" wrote:

> Hello Adalbert,
>
> how much does a board cost? Can you provide a contact address  for this
> company?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ralf
> --
> Ralf D. Werner | Tel +49-89-6072-8614 | Mob +49-177-DF1RW-73|RFC:
> ESG GmbH, EH-S | Fax +49-89-6072-7094 | FX2 +49-89-244316494|1855
> ---------------+----------------------+---------------------+----
> If God had intended Man to Smoke, He would have set him on Fire.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 21 04:23:05 2000
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:24:49 +0800
From: suilitao 
To: "owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl" 
CC: "lart@lart.tudelft.nl" ,
        "huang_ch@21cn.com" 
Subject: how to modify the blob-kit-assabet-1.3.tar.gz
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  i didn't know if the lart mail list and the linux-sa1100 are the same ,so i can only post a message on there.
  i flashed  blob-kit-assabet-1.3.tar.gz to my assabet board,it run very well,i want to change the ramdisk in it, because this one is large than the one in it,i can change it drictly,some one could tellme which files i should modify in the BLOB and kernel to fit the change.
thanks!
best regards
             huang  11/20/2000


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From: "Ralf D. Werner (2000)" 
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Organization: Eurocopter Deutschland
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Hi LARTfans,

could those of you that reply to Adalbert's posting to the list (which
contains a fullquote of my private email to him) please resist the urge to
quote everything or at least take the time to cut out "my part" of the
message?

...I always wanted to get famous on the net, but not as the n-th attachment of
a multi-quoted letter. :-)

Thank you for your attention and: sorry for this "noise" on the mailing list.

Ralf
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: about exception handling
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Hi,
I have a question on studying [blob + linux kernel] for SA1110
especially about exception handling.
As I know, when a exception occurs, SA-1110 jumps to the exception's vector 
and exception addresses are like below.
--------------------------------------------------------------
0x0000 0000  reset
0x0000 0004  undefined instruction
0x0000 0008  software interrupt
0x0000 000c  abort (prefetch)
0x0000 0010  abort (data)
0x0000 0014  --reserved--
0x0000 0018  irq
0x0000 001c  fiq
--------------------------------------------------------------

But, LART blob has only empty exception handlers except reset.

--------------------------------------------------------------
undefined_instruction:
	b	undefined_instruction

software_interrupt:
	b	software_interrupt

abort_prefetch:
	b	abort_prefetch

abort_data:
	b	abort_data

not_used:
	b	not_used

irq:
	b	irq

fiq:
	b	fiq
--------------------------------------------------------------
My questions are,
  1. After booting, blob is executed and it loads linux kernel.
     As I guess, if there occur a exception on running kernel,
     SA-1110 will jump each exception address (0x0000 0000, 0x0000 0004, ...).
     How these exception is connected linux interrupt handler?
  2. Which kernel code part(file, function) execute this work?

To solve these question I read linux kernel part, but I couldn't find the solution.
If anyone knows about this, please explain to me.

Thanks.
 


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 17:07:11 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:06:31 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: LART list 
Subject: Fwd: Debian/ARM runs on (embedded) LART
Message-ID: <20001123170631.C24867@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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Hi fellow LARTers,

This is the latest issue of Debian News, featuring the LART. Debian
News is a mailing list with news items about the Debian Project (see
http://www.debian.org/ for more information).


Erik

----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze  -----

From: Martin Schulze 
To: debian-news@lists.debian.org
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:56:56 +0100
Subject: Debian/ARM runs on (embedded) LART

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Debian Project                                    http://www.debian.org/
Debian/ARM runs on LART                                 press@debian.org
November 23, 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Information and Communication Theory Group of the Delft University
of Technology is pleased to announce that Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 runs on
their LART embedded system.

Eric Mouw wrote us: "After we modified the ArmLinux IDE driver for the
LART, we were able to put a Linux distribution on the disk.  However,
there aren't that many distributions that support ArmLinux.  I am a
long-term Debian user (since Debian-1.0), so I'm familiar with the
high quality of the Debian distribution (both i386 and sparc) and
therefore I choosed debian-arm."

The debian-arm distribution didn't install without errors, but because
Eric is familiar with the installation procedure, he was able to
install debian-arm on the LART using their specially modified 2.2.14
kernel and the debian-arm resque disk.  The LART machine is able to
compile its own kernel and modules using the Debian supplied compiler,
so the stabilility of the complete platform has been proven.


>> About LART

The LART is a small yet powerful embedded computer capable of running
Linux, built around an Intel SA-1100 StrongARM processor.  Its
performance is around 250 MIPS while consuming less than 1 Watt of
power.  In a standard configuration it holds 32MB DRAM and 4MB Flash
ROM, which is sufficient for a Linux kernel and a sizeable ramdisk
image.

The hardware design files needed to build a LART are freely available
under an Open Hardware-ish license. All files can be found at
 .


>> About Debian

The Debian project is an organization of many users who volunteer
their time and effort.  Its tasks include maintaining and updating
Debian GNU/Linux which is a free distribution of the GNU/Linux
operating system, and the development of the Debian GNU/Hurd operating
system.


>> Contact Information

For further information, please send email to the Debian Press Team
 or visit the Debian homepage at .


-- 
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----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 17:35:14 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:34:08 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: suilitao 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: how to modify the blob-kit-assabet-1.3.tar.gz
Message-ID: <20001123173408.E24867@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 11:24:49AM +0800, suilitao wrote:
>   i didn't know if the lart mail list and the linux-sa1100 are the
>   same ,so i can only post a message on there. 

No, but some people are subscribed to both lists. Blob questions are
best posted here.

>   i flashed blob-kit-assabet-1.3.tar.gz to my assabet board,it run very
>   well,i want to change the ramdisk in it, because this one is large
>   than the one in it,i can change it drictly,some one could tellme
>   which files i should modify in the BLOB and kernel to fit the
>   change.

Hmm, I heard many people talking about blob-kit-assabet, but I don't
know about it. I can't really help you right now because I don't know
what blob-kit-assabet is. If you can tell me where I can download it,
I'll have a look and I miht be able to help you.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 17:46:57 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:45:46 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Gagamel 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: about exception handling
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On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:36:16PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> I have a question on studying [blob + linux kernel] for SA1110
> especially about exception handling.
> As I know, when a exception occurs, SA-1110 jumps to the exception's vector 
> and exception addresses are like below.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 0x0000 0000  reset
> 0x0000 0004  undefined instruction
> 0x0000 0008  software interrupt
> 0x0000 000c  abort (prefetch)
> 0x0000 0010  abort (data)
> 0x0000 0014  --reserved--
> 0x0000 0018  irq
> 0x0000 001c  fiq
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> But, LART blob has only empty exception handlers except reset.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------

   ...

> --------------------------------------------------------------
> My questions are,
>   1. After booting, blob is executed and it loads linux kernel.
>      As I guess, if there occur a exception on running kernel,
>      SA-1110 will jump each exception address (0x0000 0000, 0x0000 0004, ...).
>      How these exception is connected linux interrupt handler?

Normally, the SA11x0 expects the exception handler table at (physical)
address 0x00000000, but there is an instruction to put the exception
handler table at a different address. The kernel uses this instruction
to put its own exception handlers in RAM.

>   2. Which kernel code part(file, function) execute this work?

I don't know the exact location, but arch/arm/kernel/traps.c contains a
couple of clues with which you should be able to figure out what really
happens. Or try "grep -i exception *" in arch/arm/kernel/.

> To solve these question I read linux kernel part, but I couldn't find
> the solution. If anyone knows about this, please explain to me.

Well, I don't know the exact details. Maybe Nico can supply more
information?


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 18:57:06 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:55:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicolas Pitre 
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cc: Gagamel , 
Subject: Re: about exception handling
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:36:16PM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> > My questions are,
> >   1. After booting, blob is executed and it loads linux kernel.
> >      As I guess, if there occur a exception on running kernel,
> >      SA-1110 will jump each exception address (0x0000 0000, 0x0000 0004, ...).
> >      How these exception is connected linux interrupt handler?
>
> Normally, the SA11x0 expects the exception handler table at (physical)
> address 0x00000000, but there is an instruction to put the exception
> handler table at a different address. The kernel uses this instruction
> to put its own exception handlers in RAM.

I think the SA rather expect exception vectors to be at address 0, whether
the MMU is active or not.

Linux in its early virtual memory setup allocates a page of ram and add an
entry in the page table at offset 0 to point to that page which will contain
the exception vectors.  See arch/arm/mm/mm-armv.c:memtable_init().

Next the exception vectors and their stubs are copied from the kernel text
to that memory page mapped at 0.  See
arch/arm/kernel/entry-armv.S:ENTRY(__trap_init).  In the same file you'll
find all the code to handle each exception entry and call the appropriate
kernel routine.

When the vector table has been copied to the virtual memory at 0, the page
entry at that location is modified so only the exception handlers can access
memory there.  This way even regular kernel code can't access that area
without triggering a page fault.  This is useful to trap NULL pointer
dereferences.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 19:57:56 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:44:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Glen Duncan 
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Possible item of interest
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I found this link while browsing around at work yesterday. ;)
It may be usefull to those trying to build at home.

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm

-Glen

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 21:47:59 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:44:54 +0100
From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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Glen Duncan wrote:
> 
> I found this link while browsing around at work yesterday. ;)
> It may be usefull to those trying to build at home.
> 
> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm
> 
> -Glen
> 

Are you sure ???? Can I cook a micro that costs 100 DM ????
I want ...but I really don't know ....
This sounds not good .....
Someone , like JDB , can tell to us if it is useful or not ....please
tell !!!

regards .....  

-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 23 22:43:48 2000
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:41:36 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
Cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: Possible item of interest
Message-ID: <20001123224136.H24867@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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In-Reply-To: <3A1D81C6.D87C9D22@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br>; from cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br on Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:44:54PM +0100
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On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:44:54PM +0100, Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo wrote:
> Glen Duncan wrote:
> > 
> > I found this link while browsing around at work yesterday. ;)
> > It may be usefull to those trying to build at home.
> > 
> > http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm
> > 
> > -Glen
> > 
> 
> Are you sure ???? Can I cook a micro that costs 100 DM ????

I don't know if this is the right temperature profile, but otherwise
there's nothing wrong with it. My oven can't do it, but that's because
it's a hot air oven.

> I want ...but I really don't know ....
> This sounds not good .....

Well, this is what actually happens in an IR reflow oven. The only thing
that differs is the amount of solder. And of course an IR reflow oven
is much faster.

> Someone , like JDB , can tell to us if it is useful or not ....please
> tell !!!

I'm sure JDB will correct me if I'm wrong ;-)


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 24 00:38:25 2000
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Subject: Re: Possible item of interest
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Erik Mouw wrote:

> Well, this is what actually happens in an IR reflow oven. The only thing
> that differs is the amount of solder. And of course an IR reflow oven
> is much faster.
> 
> > Someone , like JDB , can tell to us if it is useful or not ....please
> > tell !!!
> 
> I'm sure JDB will correct me if I'm wrong ;-)

My 2p worth...
Honestly, soldering QFPs isn't hard. You just need plenty of flux, and it
all just works. What the world needs is a desktop machine that'll pick and
place, then solder, 0603 passives, which is where a vast majority of the
time goes when I hand assemble boards - QFPs I can do at about 10 seconds
a side. (OK, the world may not need it, but I do...)
Solder paste can also do annoying things if placed wrongly - a ball can
form behind the IC legs, where you really can't get to it, with no
guarantee that it won't detach later and wander round your PCB...
Soldering BGAs, sure, if you can align them and get the solder paste
right. Problem is there, that you get no feedback - who knows if all the
balls soldered right? It's OK with a production run, where you can SPC and
discard the first few boards, but for single PCBs, I'd want to get the
alignment completely right...

Of course, if you're doing this as a company rather than a hobbyist then
all the annoying health and safety legislation kicks in, so:-
_Do_ do this at home, kids :)

YMMV, of course! (and the toaster oven is probably a very good way of
desoldering chips and re-heating pizza...)

Steve



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:44:58 -0600
From: Michael Vanecek 
Subject: Re: Possible item of interest
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
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It would be interesting to see if someone has success with a bga chip
using this method. Perhaps making a physical template to hold the chips
exactly in place while handling and cooking the boards would help? Worth
a try on some cheap bga chips and throwaway pcbs...

Mike


> 
> My 2p worth...
> Honestly, soldering QFPs isn't hard. You just need plenty of flux, and it
> all just works. What the world needs is a desktop machine that'll pick and
> place, then solder, 0603 passives, which is where a vast majority of the
> time goes when I hand assemble boards - QFPs I can do at about 10 seconds
> a side. (OK, the world may not need it, but I do...)
> Solder paste can also do annoying things if placed wrongly - a ball can
> form behind the IC legs, where you really can't get to it, with no
> guarantee that it won't detach later and wander round your PCB...
> Soldering BGAs, sure, if you can align them and get the solder paste
> right. Problem is there, that you get no feedback - who knows if all the
> balls soldered right? It's OK with a production run, where you can SPC and
> discard the first few boards, but for single PCBs, I'd want to get the
> alignment completely right...
> 
> Of course, if you're doing this as a company rather than a hobbyist then
> all the annoying health and safety legislation kicks in, so:-
> _Do_ do this at home, kids :)
> 
> YMMV, of course! (and the toaster oven is probably a very good way of
> desoldering chips and re-heating pizza...)
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 24 09:54:13 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:52:21 +0000
To: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
From: Steve Goodwin 
Subject: Re: Possible item of interest
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 <3A1DF24A.52017647@mjv.com>
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In message <3A1DF24A.52017647@mjv.com>, Michael Vanecek 
writes
>It would be interesting to see if someone has success with a bga chip
>using this method. Perhaps making a physical template to hold the chips
>exactly in place while handling and cooking the boards would help? Worth
>a try on some cheap bga chips and throwaway pcbs...

Anyone have a source of non-functional qfp (208 pin possibly) and bga
for test purposes. That would certainly make experimentation easier
(read cheaper)

Regards
-- 
Steve Goodwin
********************************************************************
Any opinions, express or implied,  presented are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of P2 Controllers Ltd.
********************************************************************
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From: rob 
To: Steve Goodwin 
cc: Linux Advanced Radio Terminal 
Subject: Re: Possible item of interest
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Steve Goodwin wrote:

>>[...]

	check out www.zeph.com .  they make a sort of benchtop reflow
tool, it apparently gets lots of use at places like CRL, and MERL. it
appears you can get setup for $1200 USD.  they also have a machine that
does BGA placement (it looks like it lets you align the chip up for
placement) which costs $9kUSD.  there's probably still no guarantee that
you've good placement unless you check it with an xray machine.
		rob

---- 
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Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt4255a
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 24 12:01:22 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:00:01 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Rex Juo 
Cc: "'Nicolas Pitre'" , Gagamel ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: about exception handling
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On Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 10:03:36AM +0800, Rex Juo wrote:

(Please don't send HTML messages to the LART list. Use plain text.)

>    I found kernel generate a software interrupt before its own ISR
>    take over exceptions, and I've no idea how to find out where it
>    is. 

See arch/arm/boot/compressed/head.S, look for CONFIG_ANGELBOOT:

	mov	r0, #0x17	@ angel_SWIreason_EnterSVV
	swi	0x123456	@ angel_SWI_ARM

>    maybe someone put it just for testing and forget to remove or
>    so ....(I hope somebody can find it out and remove it) so, if your
>    blob has booting problem, you may modify your blob swi ISR
>    
>    software_interrupt:
>        mov pc, lr
>    #b software_interrupt
>    
>    just skip it....
>    that'll solve this kind of  problems uglily. (I've tested it only on
>    assabet.)

You didn't disable CONFIG_ANGELBOOT in the kernel configuration. In
"make menuconfig", go to "System Type", "SA11x0 Implementations", and
say N to "Load kernel using Angel Debug Monitor". Recompile kernel, use
the original blob, and retry. This should solve your problem.


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 24 15:32:26 2000
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:28:18 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Rex Juo 
Cc: "'Nicolas Pitre'" , Gagamel ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: about exception handling
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On Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 08:24:31PM +0800, Rex Juo wrote:
> 
>    sorry for sending HTML message to LART...

... then don't do it again.

>    for blob,
>    I think it's ok on LART with CONFIG_ANGELBOOT disable, but it's not on
>    assabet.

It is. The option was especially included into the kernel source to let
the kernel boot on an Assabet withhout Angelboot.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Rex  Juo wrote:

> I found kernel generate a software interrupt before its own ISR take over
> exceptions,
> and I've no idea how to find out where it is. maybe someone put it just for
> testing and
> forget to remove or so ....(I hope somebody can find it out and remove it)

Be sure you disabled CONFIG_ANGELBOOT in your kernel configuration if you're
not using angelboot to load the kernel.


Nicolas

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On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Rex  Juo wrote:

> sorry for sending HTML message to LART...
>
> for blob,
> I think it's ok on LART with CONFIG_ANGELBOOT disable, but it's not on
> assabet.
> I've failed many times until swi ISR modified...
> what's your opinion, Nicolas?

I use angelboot by default on Assabet.  If you use BLOB, simply disable that
item in your configuration.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Nov 27 09:58:48 2000
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From: "Glynn Harris" 
To: 
Subject: BGA converters
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:58:23 -0600
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A company called Mill-Max is making some "converters", which consist of a
board you affix a BGA chip to, which has pins on the other side. This then
mates to a ZIF-style socket.

While you still have to bake your BGA to their board, it would possibly
allow a designer better "pin" access (testability?) and board upgradability
if that ever became an issue-- and a guy with one converted BGA sample CPU
could test several boards equipped with ZIF sockets etc.

So I thought I'd pass along that you can get a free catalog of Mill-Max
stuff from the Future Electronics website, http://www.future.ca.

Perhaps it's not terribly elegant, but as manufacturers are starting to
produce their chips only in highly-dense packaging, production issues are
going to either shut out some of us, or we'll look for alternatives like
this to cope...






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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 28 03:53:19 2000
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All;
I led you to the future.ca website for Mill-Max BGA converters, but have
received email that indicates that FutureElectronics is not so easy to
navigate. I was looking at their "promotions" page, which is where the offer
of the free catalog is found.

It is here:

http://www.future.ca/1033/promos/millmax/

Always look for the free stuff!!!
glynn.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 28 14:28:35 2000
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From: Barry Callahan 
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Advanced Interconnections (www.advantintcorp.com) has BGA adapters that hold the 
chip in place with a clip or screw.  No heating required. :)

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 28 20:09:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:39:09 -0600
From: Michael Vanecek 
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Actually, the URL is http://www.advintcorp.com/

Mike

Barry Callahan wrote:
> 
> Advanced Interconnections (www.advantintcorp.com) has BGA adapters that hold the
> chip in place with a clip or screw.  No heating required. :)
> 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 28 20:46:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:33:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry Callahan 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>Actually, the URL is http://www.advintcorp.com/

Uhm, yeah.... I guess I've just shown that I can't read and type at the same 
time. :(

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov 29 17:16:11 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:12:42 +0100
From: Adalbert Gubo 
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Is there anybody with experience using AMD Flash Memories instead of
the Intel DT28F160F3B-xxx ?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Nov 29 18:40:37 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:39:28 -0500
From: Holly Gates 
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I have used the DT28F160F3T and have succeeded in booting a kernel and 
ramdisk, but have not tried using linux flash drivers to write the flash 
from within linux. The DT28F160 comes in a package that not very many 
other flash chips come in. The F3T was the only other part I could find 
that was in stock in the same footprint (Arrow had it). If the LART 
flash footprint were in TSOP instead, there would be more options open 
in terms of alternate chips, though more options would probably 
complicate blob/flash drivers and also TSOP is harder to solder than the 
current package.

-Holly Gates



Adalbert Gubo wrote:

> Is there anybody with experience using AMD Flash Memories instead of
> the Intel DT28F160F3B-xxx ?
> 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 30 04:11:00 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 04:07:41 +0100
From: Adalbert Gubo 
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what about a Rev 5 board with a SA 1110 on it with DRAM & more flexible
Flash memories ?
Eric, JDB and all the others did an exelent job creating the LART,
I am a hardware guy and I could do the design changes by keeping
compatibility
to Rev 3, but I cannot do the software changes as are writing another
bootloader if using other Flash memories.





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 30 05:31:58 2000
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At 04:07 +0100 30-11-2000, Adalbert Gubo wrote:
>what about a Rev 5 board with a SA 1110 on it with DRAM & more flexible
>Flash memories ?
>Eric, JDB and all the others did an exelent job creating the LART,
>I am a hardware guy and I could do the design changes by keeping
>compatibility
>to Rev 3, but I cannot do the software changes as are writing another
>bootloader if using other Flash memories.

I actually have a board in the works with
SA-1110/SA-1111/SDRAM/audio/2xEnet/... Will describe in more detail when
I'm more awake.

JDB.

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 30 06:55:38 2000
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	Ok, where to get em fast? Farnell is waiting time till jan. We
need some for PLEB boards ASAP not too late in december.

	Cheers Adam

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>
>	Ok, where to get em fast? Farnell is waiting time till jan. We
>need some for PLEB boards ASAP not too late in december.
>

They are like gold dust, we have problems at work getting hold of them. Try 
Future Electronics, they claim to have stocks in their adverts.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: (work): +44 1327 357824 (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221 
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page: 
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
IRISSYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk






_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 30 11:51:42 2000
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: 
Subject: RE: Tantilum SMD Capacitors
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:47:30 +0100
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A while back I got offered Spraque 593D476X9016D2T in reels of 500 from
Future. Good news is that they had 208 reels in stock. Bad news is that the
price at that time was around US$3.5 _per_capacitor_! This will make a reel
cost US$1750, an awfully expensive price.


Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Leon Heller
> Sent: 30 November, 2000 08:38
> To: awiggins@cse.unsw.edu.au; lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject: Re: Tantilum SMD Capacitors
>
>
> >
> >	Ok, where to get em fast? Farnell is waiting time till jan. We
> >need some for PLEB boards ASAP not too late in december.
> >
>
> They are like gold dust, we have problems at work getting hold of
> them. Try
> Future Electronics, they claim to have stocks in their adverts.
>
> Leon
>
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: (work): +44 1327 357824 (mobile): +44 79
> 9098 1221
> Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page:
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
> IRISSYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> ___________________
> Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Nov 30 14:29:55 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:12:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Rev 5
To: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <3A25C47D.B981FD67@scanrip.com>
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On Thu 30 Nov, Adalbert Gubo wrote:
> what about a Rev 5 board with a SA 1110 on it with DRAM & more flexible
> Flash memories ?

There are at least 2 projects to create 'next generation' LARTs. JDB has
mentioned his - I'll leave it to him to give details, but it's a lot like an
assabet in many ways, and the 'CamLART group' (LART-interested people in
Cambridge, UK) is working on 'Balloon' which is a more minimalist device than
JDBs (no companion chip), and thus more like the existing LART.

Both of these are coming along quite well but I don't think there is much
point saying more than 'people are working on it' until it gets to the
prototype stage. (A month or two, assuming bits can be got, of course). Then
we'll put up some specs and pics etc.

Whilst I'm posting: On the 'building LARTs' front, we've got some boards and
some of the bits, with the usual exceptions we are all becoming familiar
with. We've teamed up with a big assembler in the UK who have the buying
clout to get the hard bits but are also happy to do small runs for people
like us. We've worked with many of the people involved before, and are
reasonably confident they can do the business in a reasonable period of time.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Dec  1 15:36:25 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:40:37 +0100
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Dear Sir,

Would it be possible to make the Lattice schematic design files also
available on the Lart Site ?
Hoping to receive a positive reaction, I meanwhile remain,
--

Lect. ind. ing. Patrick Pelgrims
Div. Coördinator Electronics
Dept. Technology
Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst
Campus NARAFI
V. Rousseaulaan 75
B-1190 Brussels
Belgium
Tel: +32 2 340 10 20
Fax: +32 2 340 10 21
GSM : +32 478 98 45 35
email(work): pel@narafi.wenk.be
email(home): patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Dec  1 23:58:38 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:57:02 -0600
From: vkim 
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I was thinking about building a homebrew portable, possibly based
on LART design, and I remembered I have an old 486 notebook PC
that I'm not using - I wouldn't mind taking it apart for parts if
I knew what I was doing with it.

Would anyone care to share any experience doing such a thing?
(e.g. using an LCD from a notebook)

-- 
Victor Kim, vkim@ieee.org http://go.to/vkim
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Dec  2 02:42:13 2000
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: using laptop parts for LART system?
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>Would anyone care to share any experience doing such a thing?
>(e.g. using an LCD from a notebook)

The LCD should be doable, providing you can get the specs. Laptop keyboards
and trackpads tend to speak PS/2 or the like (in newer machines anyway),
which should be interfaceable. Battery charger circuitry may be more tricky
to get working though.

JDB
[who recalls he has one of those clunkers somewhere too. Hmmm...]

--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
    'There's no business like slow business !'


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Dec  2 02:46:47 2000
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, vkim wrote:

> I was thinking about building a homebrew portable, possibly based
> on LART design, and I remembered I have an old 486 notebook PC
> that I'm not using - I wouldn't mind taking it apart for parts if
> I knew what I was doing with it.

Yeah - do it. It's generally pretty painless, as long as you're taking
apart an old notebook. I did this to put a Transputer system into an old
Compaq 286 lunchbox a few years back - steep learning curve but fun.

> Would anyone care to share any experience doing such a thing?
> (e.g. using an LCD from a notebook)

There's bucketloads of LCD data on the web. Let me know if you can't find
what you need to know. (A poke at the ribbon cable with a 'scope before
you break everything will save you a whole load of time...)

Steve

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Dec 11 19:17:46 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:50:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Lart Storage
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IBM has a 1GB disk in a CompactFlash form factor. 42.8mm x 36.4mm x 5mm

You can find a datasheet here:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hardsoft/diskdrdl/micro/datasheet.htm
and pictures here:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hardsoft/diskdrdl/micro/p_photo.htm

Now granted, at 250 mA at 3.3V (for writing) it's a little power hungry, but 
it's not as bad as I'd expected.  

And for a rough idea on how much they cost, IGO (www.igo.com) has 'em for $499, 
including PCMCIA adapter (item 66748). 

What would it take to be able to boot from the PCMCIA slot?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Dec 11 23:12:36 2000
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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:11:59 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Barry Callahan 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Lart Storage
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On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 12:50:05PM -0500, Barry Callahan wrote:
> IBM has a 1GB disk in a CompactFlash form factor. 42.8mm x 36.4mm x 5mm

Yes, I have the older 340MB version lying on my desk.

> And for a rough idea on how much they cost, IGO (www.igo.com) has 'em for $499, 
> including PCMCIA adapter (item 66748). 
> 
> What would it take to be able to boot from the PCMCIA slot?

A kernel with an initrd that loads the SA1100 PCMCIA driver and the
ide-cs kernel module.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Dec 12 02:12:49 2000
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Hi gents,

Any idea when the gerbers for the KSB will be released ?

Please let me know asap...

Thanks

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:11:59 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Barry Callahan 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Lart Storage
Message-ID: <20001211231157.A1851@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 12:50:05PM -0500, Barry Callahan wrote:
> IBM has a 1GB disk in a CompactFlash form factor. 42.8mm x 36.4mm x 5mm

Yes, I have the older 340MB version lying on my desk.

> And for a rough idea on how much they cost, IGO (www.igo.com) has 'em for $499, 
> including PCMCIA adapter (item 66748). 
> 
> What would it take to be able to boot from the PCMCIA slot?

A kernel with an initrd that loads the SA1100 PCMCIA driver and the
ide-cs kernel module.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Dec 12 10:38:49 2000
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0641E.94FD7950
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Dear all,

I just discovered the LART project and it seems to fit to my projects.
I downloded the different PDF files and noticed that the motherboard is a
little bit difficult to release.
Is there company which is able to produce this card ?

Best Regards

Fred.


________________________________
Frederic SCHMITT
System Administrator
Streamlined Solutions & Services
12, Route d'Esch
L-1470 Luxembourg
T=E9l (352) 25 10 70 440
Fax (352) 25 10 70 299
> Fschmitt@3s-cbos.com
________________________________




***************************************************************************=
*******
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C0641E.94FD7950
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Dear all,




I just discovered the LART project and it =
seems to fit to my projects.

I downloded the different PDF files and n=
oticed that the motherboard is a little bit difficult to release.

Is there company which is able to produce=
 this card ?




Best Regards




Fred.






________________________________

Frederic SCHMITT

System Administrator

Streamlined Solutions & Services

12, Route d'Esch

L-1470 Luxembourg

T=E9l (352) 25 10 70 440

Fax (352) 25 10 70 299

Fschmitt@3s-cbos.com

________________________________









***************************************************************************=
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they

are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify

Streamlined Solutions & Services.



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Dec 12 14:02:57 2000
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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:59:20 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
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On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 10:33:27AM +0100, Frederic Schmitt wrote:

Please don't send HTML to the LART list. Plain text will do perfectly
well.

>    I just discovered the LART project and it seems to fit to my projects.
>    I downloded the different PDF files and noticed that the motherboard
>    is a little bit difficult to release.

I suppose you mean "a little bit difficult to make". Yes, it's
difficult to make it yourself. However, this is only the least of your
worries; getting the components is much more difficult.

>    Is there company which is able to produce this card ?

Aleph One sells LARTs. Check out the LART mailing list archives, or have
a look at http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/projects.html .

>    **********************************************************************
>    ************
>    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>    intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>    are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>    Streamlined Solutions & Services.
>    This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
>    for the presence of computer viruses.
>    **********************************************************************
>    ************

Ehm, don't you think this disclaimer is a bit odd on a public mailing list?


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Dec 21 23:35:57 2000
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Subject: Any new tips on flash?
From: Russ Dill 
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I've tracked down all my parts for 3 rev3 larts, except flash. Is there
any good news out there? Has anyone found flash recently?
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Dec 22 01:07:25 2000
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From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Bluetooth ....
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:54:47 +0100
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Are there someone thet already study Bluetooth tecnologie ???
I'm reading about it and intend to use with Lart ...but I have some doubts ....
for example :
Does exist support for it in linux ( about specific Fujitsu PCMCIA card )???
Does exist something similar to mobile network applications available ?????
 and finally 
I want to listen some opinion about it ?????


Thanks in advance ......
-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland




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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Dec 22 23:35:36 2000
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:07:13 +0330 (GMT+03:30)
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: 5xSA-1100 TQFP 220Mhz + some flash ram
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 Hello,

 Some time ago I was looking around for processors for a MP3 
player project (I'm a student). Someone at Intel (lots of  
thanks if you read this, but I've lost your e-mail address) 
said he could send me a few SA-1100's on TQFP package to use 
for our mp3 player. But the chips took a long time to get 
here and we decided on another processor :). So this week I 
got 5 SA-1100 220Mhz TQFP rev. E IC's by mail and have no 
use for them anymore.... (the budget is all gone, down the 
drain.. :)

 So if anyone want to have these chips, give me a call and a 
good story :). Just make good use of them...

 I also have a bag of flash rams: 80-pin 2MB per chip Intel 
flash. These are some sort of Cisco upgrades and are 
placed on 80-pin simm modules. I don't know if this is 
usefull for anyone, but it's just lying around here...
Type: E28F008SA-120   U43149P1D 

 greetz,
   Michiel

ps. I'm located in Holland, so Dutch people will go first...

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Dec 23 12:24:49 2000
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: Russ.Dill@asu.edu, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Any new tips on flash?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:23:46 
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>
>I've tracked down all my parts for 3 rev3 larts, except flash. Is there
>any good news out there? Has anyone found flash recently?

It's like gold dust. I sourced some for work recently, and we had to pay 
through the nose for them on the grey market. If you don't mind paying about 
16 UK pounds each for Am29LV040B I can tell you where I got them. I can't 
remember what the LART uses, BTW.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: (work): +44 1327 357824 (mobile): +44 79 9098 1221 
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page: 
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
IRISYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk






_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Dec 30 12:17:12 2000
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Subject: Building LART
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 11:13:01 -0000
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I have managed to get enough components for 20 LART. I am starting building
this coming week. If anyone would like a LART please contact me as soon as
possible as some are already spoken for. Expected run including prototyping
will be approx the same as Aleph1 suggested.

Chris

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Dec 31 13:08:14 2000
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From: "c" 
To: 
Subject: Building LART
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:53 -0000
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Just to update everyone, I have being asked many times for an approximate
price of a fully populated and tested LART. Having calculated the cost of
components, board making, testing and assembly the price of a small run of
20 units would be between £400-£500 GBP or US$575-US$710. I would expect the
price to be nearer £400 GBP rather than £500 GBP but I am building into my
calculations all eventualities such as we mess up a few during production,
shipping costs to and from the Far East, import duty, 17.5% VAT etc.

I would also be happy to build the KSB and the analogue interface for the
LCD screen but as yet I don`t know whether the gerbers are released or when
they will be. As far as I am aware there is just a PDF of the KSB which
isn`t much use to me (I could be wrong?). I would prefer to manufacture
everything at once so I may hold off until then. Can someone please tell me
when the gerbers will be released? I am also interested in other designs
people may have.

I believe LART is a very worthy project, I am using it as a base for my own
designs and expect other hardware revisions and new software to follow.
Please remember, I am funding this run of LART from my own pocket and
although I don`t expect to become a millionaire from this, I do want to try
and cover my own expenses and others (my phone bill for a start :-)
Unfortunately, I had to buy more components than I wanted to secure delivery
of what I needed. It makes sense to make the 20 if they can be useful to
others; otherwise I`ll just make a few for research and keep the components
handy for a later revision.

Any questions please mail me

Chris

PS: There are only 15 LART unallocated





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  2 08:15:35 2001
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From: "Roald Chung" 
To: 
Subject: Blob can't read the image in flash?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:21:59 +0800
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Hello.  Everyone.
I want to burn the kernel and image to the flash of assabet.  But blob can't support burn flash on assabet,so I used the jflash-1.2 to burn the kernel and image.
But after I did it, I found the blob can't read the image in the flash.  I don't know the reason.
I also wonder to know that why I can't compile the jflash-1.2 at linux.  It always displayed that intb redifined, and so on.

Roald Chung


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  2 15:41:12 2001
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Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:31:51 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Roald Chung 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Blob can't read the image in flash?
Message-ID: <20010102153151.B888@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:21:59PM +0800, Roald Chung wrote:
> I want to burn the kernel and image to the flash of assabet.  But
> blob can't support burn flash on assabet,so I used the jflash-1.2 to
> burn the kernel and image.
> But after I did it, I found the blob can't read the image in the
> flash.  I don't know the reason.

Blob can read the image perfectly well, but there might be other things
wrong:

- You didn't burn the kernel image at the correct location
- You didn't configure for Assabet
- You forgot to disable support for Angelboot
- You burned vmlinux instead of zImage

> I also wonder to know that why I can't compile the jflash-1.2 at
> linux.  It always displayed that intb redifined, and so on.

Because it is full with windows-isms. Download Nicolas Pitre's port at:

  ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/

And be sure to compile with "-O2" because otherwise it will most
certainly fail.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jan  5 17:52:45 2001
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Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:58:18 +0100
From: Patrick Pelgrims 
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Dear Sir,

Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?

Lect. ind. ing. Patrick Pelgrims
Div. Coördinator Electronics
Dept. Technology
Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst
Campus NARAFI
V. Rousseaulaan 75
B-1190 Brussels
Belgium
Tel: +32 2 340 10 20
Fax: +32 2 340 10 21
email: pel@narafi.wenk.be


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan  6 11:54:42 2001
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:49:42 +0100
To: Patrick Pelgrims 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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At 17:58 +0100 05-01-2001, Patrick Pelgrims wrote:
>Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?

No. I found an error in the 5V power supply of the rev2 KSB, and I'd 
rather not release PCBs with known bugs. If you really want Gerbers 
ASAP then I could provide the rev1 files which work but rely on the 
hard-to-get MAX1626.

JDB.
-- 
--
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan  6 22:47:45 2001
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Subject: Re: KSB PCB ?
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Quoting "J.D. Bakker" :

> At 17:58 +0100 05-01-2001, Patrick Pelgrims wrote:
> >Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?
> 
> No. I found an error in the 5V power supply of the rev2 KSB, and I'd 
> rather not release PCBs with known bugs. If you really want Gerbers 
> ASAP then I could provide the rev1 files which work but rely on the 
> hard-to-get MAX1626.

I was able to obtain engineering samples of this part and MAX1627 (3 of each),
about a month ago without a problem. Obtaining them from distributors such as
arrow may be difficult though (says call last time I checked).

Just out of curiosity, what power supply would you use if battery power wasn't
used? 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jan  7 13:53:33 2001
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Reply-To: 
From: "Gad Hayisraeli" 
To: 
Subject: porting Timidity to StrongARM cpu (on ASSABET board)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:49:59 +0200
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hello.

i've compiled the Timidity++ 2.10.2 app, to StrongARM cpu.
but when i'm playing midi files (with appropriate patches and cfg files...)
the sound seems to be distorted.
it sounds like small pieces of the patch playing (like "blimp, blimp,....")
and the sound dies after a few seconds.
can you figure why this happens?
maybe its related conneted to the frequency of the cpu clock / divider ?
maybe its related to the fact that timidity uses floating point operations ?


comment: i do hear the temp beats (in very low volume)

also i receive this message from timidity:
"Output rate adjusted to 44100 Hz (requested 32000 Hz)"
while in standard x86 linux i dont receive such message.


thanks alot,


Regards,

Gad Hayisraeli
C.T.O.
SoftGen Ltd.
E-Mail: gad@syete.co.il


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Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:27:42 +0200
From: Gad Hayisraeli 
Subject: midi on sa1100/sa1110 ?
To: flynn@ozy.dec.com
Reply-to: gad@syete.co.il
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have you heard anything on this subject ?
if so, i'll be glad to contact you.

thanks alot

Regards,

Gad Hayisraeli
C.T.O.
SoftGen Ltd.
E-Mail: gad@syete.co.il


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jan  8 12:21:32 2001
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From: "Roald Chung" 
To: 
Subject: About ramdisk
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:26:56 +0800
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Hi.
I have met a problem while booting assabet.  It'll display "Find compressed image at block 0".  I don't know the reason.  Could you tell me?
And I also want to know the max size of ramdisk on the assabet.
Thanks

Roald Chung


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jan  8 14:13:44 2001
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From: "Chang Yl, Lee" 
To: 
Subject: RE:About ramdisk
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:12:39 +0900
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Hi..
As I know(and my humble opinion :-) ), It's normal message while booting..
So I'm gussing that your kernel stopped at its point.

Q) Do you compressed ramdisk with option '-9'?
     In my case, It shuld be compressed with option '-9'.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jan  8 17:30:40 2001
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Received: From paulaner With LocalMail ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:28:36 +1100 
From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:28:36 +1100 (EST)
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cc: Patrick Pelgrims , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 17:58 +0100 05-01-2001, Patrick Pelgrims wrote:
> >Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?
> 
> No. I found an error in the 5V power supply of the rev2 KSB, and I'd 
> rather not release PCBs with known bugs. If you really want Gerbers 
> ASAP then I could provide the rev1 files which work but rely on the 
> hard-to-get MAX1626.

	If you only need a few Maxim have a good sample program and ship
within a week or two. See www.maxim-ic.com and folow the samples links.

	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jan  8 18:01:44 2001
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:46:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: KSB PCB ?
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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'Course, it may take forever for them to get to you.

Ordered samples of one of their RS232 transcievers, and they took a month to get 
here.  Then again, since they /were/ free, I guess I don't have much room to 
complain.

>
>	If you only need a few Maxim have a good sample program and ship
>within a week or two. See www.maxim-ic.com and folow the samples links.
>
>	Cheers Adam

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  9 00:50:28 2001
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From: Steve Wiseman 
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There's some flash for sale on Ebay - it's DT28F160S3100 , which is CFI
flash in the right footprint at the right voltage. I haven't read the
datasheet fully, but if anyone's looking for Flash for their Lart, I
suspect this'll do. If need be, I'll give any purchaser a hand in
modifying the jtag programmer as necessary. 

Steve

(I have some SA1100s available, if anyone's stuck on them, too). 




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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  9 02:44:52 2001
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From: "Roald Chung" 
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References: <003e01c07974$ad6b1fe0$2cb0f8cb@bluecafe>
Subject: Re: RE:About ramdisk
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> As I know(and my humble opinion :-) ), It's normal message while booting..
> So I'm gussing that your kernel stopped at its point.
Of course, it hung while displayed the message.

> Q) Do you compressed ramdisk with option '-9'?
>      In my case, It shuld be compressed with option '-9'.
I also used the option '-9'.  And I used the 8MB ramdisk. If there are above 7MB things in the ramdisk, it will often hang.  If there are under 7MB things in the ramdisk, it will sometimes hang.  Why?

Thanks

Roald Chung

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  9 14:45:22 2001
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: KSB PCB ?
In-Reply-To: <978817429.3a5791952e92e@webmail2.asu.edu>
References: <3A55FD2A.BE03EFC2@pandora.be>
	
	<978817429.3a5791952e92e@webmail2.asu.edu>
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Elfa says that they have 60 in stock today. See http://www.elfa.se

Regards,
/Karl

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Hammar                    Aspö Data           karl@kalle.csb.ki.se
Lilla Aspö 2340             +46  173 140 57                    Networks
S-742 94 Östhammar         +46  70 511 97 84                  Computers
Sweden                                                       Consulting
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Russ.Dill@asu.edu
Subject: Re: KSB PCB ?
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 14:43:49 -0700 (MST)

> Quoting "J.D. Bakker" :
> 
> > At 17:58 +0100 05-01-2001, Patrick Pelgrims wrote:
> > >Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?
> > 
> > No. I found an error in the 5V power supply of the rev2 KSB, and I'd 
> > rather not release PCBs with known bugs. If you really want Gerbers 
> > ASAP then I could provide the rev1 files which work but rely on the 
> > hard-to-get MAX1626.
> 
> I was able to obtain engineering samples of this part and MAX1627 (3 of each),
> about a month ago without a problem. Obtaining them from distributors such as
> arrow may be difficult though (says call last time I checked).
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what power supply would you use if battery power wasn't
> used? 
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan  9 18:48:27 2001
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:47:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Steve Wiseman 
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On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Steve Wiseman wrote:

> There's some flash for sale on Ebay - it's DT28F160S3100 

Update (Thanks, Nicolai) is that the pinout is sufficiently different to
make using these parts a pain in the arse. Sorry about the false alarm,
people. 

Steve

> (I have some SA1100s available, if anyone's stuck on them, too). 

This bit's still true, though...



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 01:33:13 2001
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Subject: Newbie
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:28:46 -0500
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I am new to the list having just joined today.
In fact, I was doing some last minute browsing and
posts to various mailing lists in anticipation
of buying an iPAQ tomorrow. However, as I looked
at info posted at the Itsy website and now more
recently, the Lart. I will hold back on the purchase;
I don't need one right away if at all. I think there
is more to be learned here before I decide.
I think I am more in the "pioneer" spirit than
merely a consumer and the innovation I have
noticed is very inspiring.

So, if anyone has any information to share in that regard
please let me know.

		-Bill

PS. There is a Linux Expo in Amsterdam this month on the,
23,24 Jan.  Will there be any representation by Lart there?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 07:02:30 2001
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From: Rex  Juo 
To: "'Nicolas Pitre'" 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: MTD manipulation
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:13:35 +0800
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hi, there
I'm a beginner about MTD.
Cloud u give me some hints or references about how to manage it like
flash_mem.c on assabet?
like kernel configuration, partitions, device node, mount...

thx!
(sorry, I post this on lart, cos I don't know how to get in sa1100 mailing
list)

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MTD manipulation




hi, there

I'm a beginner about MTD.

Cloud u give me some hints or references about how to manage it like flash_mem.c on assabet?

like kernel configuration, partitions, device node, mount...




thx!

(sorry, I post this on lart, cos I don't know how to get in sa1100 mailing list)





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 09:23:12 2001
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CC: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: MTD manipulation
From: William Staniewicz 
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To: sa1100-linux-request@pa.dec.com
Subject: subscribe

I think this will get you on the list if that is
what you are looking to do.

		-Bill


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Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: MTD manipulation
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:13:35 +0800
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C07B95.A2163630
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hi, there
I'm a beginner about MTD.
Cloud u give me some hints or references about how to manage it like
flash_mem.c on assabet?
like kernel configuration, partitions, device node, mount...

thx!
(sorry, I post this on lart, cos I don't know how to get in sa1100 mailing
list)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C07B95.A2163630
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="big5"






MTD manipulation




hi, there

I'm a beginner about MTD.

Cloud u give me some hints or references about how to manage it like flash_mem.c on assabet?

like kernel configuration, partitions, device node, mount...




thx!

(sorry, I post this on lart, cos I don't know how to get in sa1100 mailing list)





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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 11:29:47 2001
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Subject: correct way to join sa1100-linux
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:25:19 -0500
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Earlier I posted incorrect directions to join the sa1100-linux mailing list.
This is the correct way to do it.

	Send mail to 

with this in the body of the message

	subscribe sa1100-linux

		-Bill

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 11:56:53 2001
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From: "J.K.D. Ruwan Jayanetti" 
To: 
Cc: 
Subject: Serial Downloading
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:50:12 +0600
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Hi,

We're using a SA1100 based device. I'm trying BLOB on it and it works fine!

We have both COM1 and COM3 on our device. So I thought of using the COM1 for
downloading would be handy while keeping COM3 for console. So I replicated
(I'm stupid. But it is the faster way of get going) all the functions in
serial.c to use COM1 with different names and used them in uucode.c (init in
Download:main.c as well).

Now I have a problem. When I send the UUencoded file to the COM1 it gives an
Overflow error. I reduced the speed down to 9600 and no luck. Then I
modified the code to display whatever it gets from COM1 on COM3. Then I
found out after receiving about 16 bytes (not much consistent) it looses
about four bytes and from there onwards it gets everything! What might be
the problem here?

TIA,

Ruwan Jayanetti.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 11 13:32:01 2001
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References: 
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:31:40 +0100
To: "J.K.D. Ruwan Jayanetti" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Serial Downloading
Cc: , 
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>Now I have a problem. When I send the UUencoded file to the COM1 it gives an
>Overflow error. I reduced the speed down to 9600 and no luck. Then I
>modified the code to display whatever it gets from COM1 on COM3. Then I
>found out after receiving about 16 bytes (not much consistent) it looses
>about four bytes and from there onwards it gets everything! What might be
>the problem here?

The receive buffers on the chip are only 8-12 bytes deep. I ran into 
a similar problem with a prerelease blob in which I printed status 
messages while the UUEncoded file was being received.

There are two possible solutions:

(1) implement interrupts within blob (prolly not worth it)
(2) when you read/write one character to one serial port, 
simultaneously empty the RX buffer on the other port.

Good luck, and be sure to send us patches so we can integrate your work ;-),

JDB.
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan 13 13:16:43 2001
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Subject: Demo system with PalmIII
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:12:47 -0500
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In the gallery at the LART homepage I see
a picture in the applications section of a LART
hooked up to a PalmIII and KSB.

Is the Palm touchscreen operable and to what extent?
What are some things you can do with this setup?

		-Bill


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan 13 14:37:48 2001
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:37:06 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: William Staniewicz 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Demo system with PalmIII
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On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 01:12:47PM -0500, William Staniewicz wrote:
> In the gallery at the LART homepage I see
> a picture in the applications section of a LART
> hooked up to a PalmIII and KSB.
> 
> Is the Palm touchscreen operable and to what extent?

The Palm touchscreen if perfectly operable, like on any healthy Palm.

> What are some things you can do with this setup?

The Palm is only used as a terminal emulator, not as a fancy
graphical front-end for the LART (allthough it could be used like
that).


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan 13 14:37:48 2001
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:22:26 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:28:46AM -0500, William Staniewicz wrote:
> PS. There is a Linux Expo in Amsterdam this month on the,
> 23,24 Jan.  Will there be any representation by Lart there?

(Sorry Bill, you'll get this message ttwwiiccee, I forgot to CC to the
LART list)

No presentation, basically because we only discovered a couple of days
ago that there would be a Linux Expo in Amsterdam. We will however
visit the Linux Expo and most probably bring a LART. We're not sure
*when* we will visit the Linux Expo.

Erik

PS for our US readers: I'll be visiting Linux World Expo in New York
  city at the end of Januari and I'll bring a LART.

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jan 14 22:41:42 2001
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Message-Id: <200101142141.WAA23775@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl>
Subject: LART rev 4 (formerly: Re: Is the LART dying ?)
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:37:46 -0500
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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I downloaded the Bill of Materials for LART rev 4. The message
below was from the archives 12 Nov 2000.
I am prepared to go through the process of verifying each
item on the list as a step in the process of building a LART.
If there is a group of people already ahead of me in this I
would be interested in hearing more from them so I don't
repeat the process needlessly. Where do I go from here?

		-Bill

> [resending for "Simon Labrecque" ]
> 
[snip]
> 
> I've been waiting eagerly for someone to build a batch of rev 4 boards, as
> some ppl said that they would build some of them when the hardware
> distribution would go out. Well, it's now out, and no news yet. It would be
> a GREAT idea to try to make a list of ppl that still wants 1 or more board,
> so we can build them cheap. Common guys, for the past ~4 months we've been
> saying that once rev 4 would be out, we would build some... It's now the
> time to move!
> 
> I'm sure a lot of ppl are still interested in getting a fully assembled
> board. I understand that the parts are hard to find, but at least tell us
> that you're actually trying to build a batch, so we can still have hope :)
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Simon Labrecque
> 
> 
> 
> >Is the LART dying ?
> >
> >I've been following this list for almos eight months now and this is the
> >slowest it ever been..
> 
> >Has anyone built the Rev 4.0 board ? I've been trying to source the parts
> >for several weeks and still can get half the parts....
> >If someone manages to built and assemble the rev 4.0 let me know I'll
> >purchase at least 10..
> >
> >Thanks

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jan 14 23:03:20 2001
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:01:46 +0100
To: William Staniewicz 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LART rev 4 (formerly: Re: Is the LART dying ?)
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, ,
        Laurie van Someren 
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At 22:37 -0500 14-01-2001, William Staniewicz wrote:
>I downloaded the Bill of Materials for LART rev 4. The message
>below was from the archives 12 Nov 2000.
>I am prepared to go through the process of verifying each
>item on the list as a step in the process of building a LART.
>If there is a group of people already ahead of me in this I
>would be interested in hearing more from them so I don't
>repeat the process needlessly. Where do I go from here?

I know that at least aleph1 
(http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/devboards/index.html) and Chris 
() are working on getting the parts 
together for a run of LARTs. You have to ask them for their exact 
status of course, but from the sounds they're making boards will be 
avaliable very soon.

JDB.
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jan 15 15:22:44 2001
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:17:37 +0100
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Subject: Building LART.
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[Resent on behalf of AJ Hettema  ; reply to him not me]

I have one question concerning the software on the LART. Is there somebody who
can tell me if the LART is capable of running LabView from Texas
Instruments???
We have a small company and we would like to use the LART as the main part in
some projects for the measurement of sound, climate, the frequencie and speed
of passing objects and so on. If someone can help me out with some questions I
still have (question on top is the most important), then I can possibly help
some other people on the mailinglist. I have a company near by me which is
capable of getting the parts needed for the LART and can also build them in
small scale (starting from 50). In short: if the LART can do the things I want
it to do, then I can start the production of them. First small, like 50 for a
start. But when it is needed I can produce them on some larger scale.

regards
AJ Hettema
The Netherlands
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan 16 11:32:12 2001
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From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:27:34 -0500
To: bakker@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl, patrick.pelgrims@pandora.be,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: KSB PCB ?
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How close are you to having rev2 KSB ready? Is anyone setting up to produce them
yet?

		-Bill

> At 17:58 +0100 05-01-2001, Patrick Pelgrims wrote:
> >Are the PCB files of the KSB already available ?
> 
> No. I found an error in the 5V power supply of the rev2 KSB, and I'd 
> rather not release PCBs with known bugs. If you really want Gerbers 
> ASAP then I could provide the rev1 files which work but rely on the 
> hard-to-get MAX1626.
> 
> JDB.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan 16 16:16:02 2001
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:04:25 +0100
From: "b.stolk" 
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Subject: Intrynsic CerfBoard
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Hello,

Does anyone on this list have experience with the
'Intrynsic CerfBoard'?

It looks like something similar to the LART.
See:
http://www.intrinsyc.com/files/htm_files/micro1110-linux.htm

  Bram
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jan 16 19:27:07 2001
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From: "Johan Leroy" 
To: 
Subject: Hardware
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:26:51 +0100
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Hi there,
I've seen on the list that a lot of poeple are surching for the PCB's with
the components.
I'm planning to start producing them but before I deside I want to know how
many pieces it
are so I can cover my development costs.
So if you're intrested please send me a mail and I let you somthing know if
I will produce them.

Best regards

Johan Leroy

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 00:33:12 2001
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From: "Johan Leroy" 
To: 
Subject: EDO RAM
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:33:01 +0100
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Hi guys,

I was looking for prices of all the components. On the moment i was looking
for prices for the EDO RAM's I cound't find this type at the NEC webside.
Gues what in the BOM they say it is the type µPD465165 but that has to be
µPD4265165.
Maybay this may help some poeples.

Best regards

Johan Leroy

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 13:23:16 2001
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Subject: brltty on lart?
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[Resent on behalf of Thomas.Thaele@t-online.de (Thomas Thaele) ; 
reply to him not me]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for a hardware platform running linux that can be handled
by blind people. In order to achieve this I need to have the
/dev/console and /dev/vcsa. Are these devices available with lart?

Best regards
Thomas
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 14:06:45 2001
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From: "Johan Leroy" 
To: 
Subject: LART production
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:06:35 +0100
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Hi there,

Yesterday i've send a mail that I was planning to produce the lart system
the KSB and the ethernet card also but it is all depending on the nuber that
you want, because the price is depending on the quantity (more PCB -->
cheaper PCB,
more components --> cheaper components).
Several poeple already answerd on my mail but almost nobody speaks about
quantitys and
this is what I realy wan't to know. If you quantity is depending on the
costs of one you can also
send a price so I can see if I can produce them for the asked price, if the
price is diferent I'll
let you know something so you can change the amount you wan't and I
calculate the costs.
To have a minus or less good price it is neccesary to producte at least 100
pieces.

Best regards


Johan Leroy

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 15:44:13 2001
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:42:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicolas Pitre 
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> [Resent on behalf of Thomas.Thaele@t-online.de (Thomas Thaele) ;
> reply to him not me]
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I am looking for a hardware platform running linux that can be handled
> by blind people. In order to achieve this I need to have the
> /dev/console and /dev/vcsa. Are these devices available with lart?

Yes they are if you enable CONFIG_VT and support for the LCD framebuffer.

However you may as well modify BRLTTY's sources to fit your environment (of
course being the co-author of BRLTTY it's easy for me to say so).


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 20:49:18 2001
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Hello 

Can anyone tell me where to find the datasheets of the SA1100 and SA1110?

best regards

Johan
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 17 21:02:27 2001
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From: "Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins" 
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Johan Leroy wrote:

> Hello 
> 
> Can anyone tell me where to find the datasheets of the SA1100 and SA1110?

	developer.intel.com and follow the links to embedded processors
then StrongARM then ...

	Cheers Adam

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On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Adam 'WeirdArms' Wiggins wrote:

> 	developer.intel.com and follow the links to embedded processors
> then StrongARM then ...

And don't forget to fetch the specification updates...

Steve


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 18 21:30:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:17:35 -0600
From: Michael Vanecek 
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Sorry if this is off topic, but since it's within the realm of what this
list is doing regarding building a computer from scratch (or a few
scratches), I figure one of you may have a pointer on my Q. I'm seeking
schematics on the ATX mainboard for use with either the socket A or
socket 370 - something I can change without having to design it from
scratch. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 18 23:05:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:52:28 -0500
From: "Adilson G. Oliveira" 
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Hello!

I boss just asked me if I know any borads that use the new xscale arm
chip from Intel (80200, I guess). Are you lart guys thinking about it?
If not do you know where I can find more information about something
like LART using this cpu? Do you know if the ARM linux run on this chip?

Thanks a lot!

Adilson.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jan 19 02:13:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:12:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicolas Pitre 
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Adilson G. Oliveira wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I boss just asked me if I know any borads that use the new xscale arm
> chip from Intel (80200, I guess).

Yes, the Cyclone IQ80310 (the 80200 + 80312 evaluation board).  However
Cyclone is apparently having problems producing the boards so that even
the Intel folks can't have any at the moment.

> Are you lart guys thinking about it?
> If not do you know where I can find more information about something
> like LART using this cpu? Do you know if the ARM linux run on this chip?

This is my current day job to make it so.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jan 20 11:14:09 2001
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Subject: LART rev4, BOM, "hard-to-finds"
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:10:09 -0500
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I am curious. Which items specifically in the LART rev4
Bill of Materials are proving to be the most difficult/
impossible to find? Will this situation improve or
will it always be a problem?

Also, is "100" (Quantity) the "Magic Number" in terms of
building boards at a reasonable cost and being
able to get an order placed from a parts supplier?

		-Bill

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 25 11:17:10 2001
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: "LART List" 
Subject: Small SA1110 board
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:08:23 +0100
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I just stumbled on this 37.5 x 37.5mm SA1110 with 2MB SRAM and 4/8MB Flash.

http://www.u-blox.ch/roger2/sr/

They made it for M$ Windows CE but they also have the Angel Debug Monitor
for it. Could this be of interest to the LART community?

Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 25 13:26:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:23:05 +0100
From: Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo 
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	Sorry , i also know that this question isn't what we can call that a
good one ...
	But I'm really afraid cause I don't understand the LART memory system
...in specific the memory map ...
	There are at least two details consuming my mind ....
	First :
	Why this strange order of the address and the data bus on the Flash
devices ????
	Sorry, I know that for sure there one reason ....I just want to know
how ...please, can someone tell me ????
	And second :
	The same question for the DRAM memories ...and in specific how are you
using the A 24 pin to address those devices ???? 
	The fact is ( like I read in the manual ) that DRAM controller attach
the address at A<10:21> making possible use devices until 12 rows ...in
the LART case 12 x 10 ...
	I'm still reading and maybe there are the answer for this question 
....but I'd like to heard the position from the LART team , that
construct it ....or , of course , someone that can understand it ...


	I really can't see it ...and I'm feeling so stupid ...cause this I
request some help ...


thanks in advance ...

 
-- 
Celso Providelo
cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
Linux user #166906-96936
LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 25 16:18:32 2001
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:17:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Yan Zhao 
Subject: Re: Small SA1110 board
To: Nicolai Mahncke , LART List 
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Well, it is nothing more than Intel's evaluation
board. Anyway, it is a good design.

Yan
--- Nicolai Mahncke  wrote:
> I just stumbled on this 37.5 x 37.5mm SA1110 with
> 2MB SRAM and 4/8MB Flash.
> 
> http://www.u-blox.ch/roger2/sr/
> 
> They made it for M$ Windows CE but they also have
> the Angel Debug Monitor
> for it. Could this be of interest to the LART
> community?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Nicolai Mahncke
> mailto:nicolai@reipur.com
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line
> "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at
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__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 25 19:36:45 2001
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:32:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Lart build starting
To: LART list 
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Hi all,

Well, as JDB intimated a couple of weeks back, Aleph One and Remote12 have
pooled resources to get a decent number of LARTs built. 

We now have all the necessary parts and are starting to assemble and test
LART boards from Feb 1st; we already have orders for many of them.

More will follow from mid-February 01, when a User Guide to Embedded
ARMLinux, and accessories like JTAG connectors should also be ready. We are
also doing a KSB build, also expected to start in February. Six CDs of
Aleph ARMLinux (Debian 2.2r2 with appropriate LARTy bits) Source and Binary
will be supplied.

Our web site  www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/devboards/ will be kept up-to-date with
information about this.  The UK price is expected to be GBP495 P&TP

We'll make a full announcement here when we actually have them sat on the
shelf waiting to go, but I thought it worth reporting that the difficult
stage of getting parts has been completed.

I was hoping to have one to wave at the New York Linux Expo thing, but we
missed by a week :-(

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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According to the LART FAQ: "Its performance is around 250 MIPS", but
according to Intel, the performance of the SA-1100 is 2.1 MIPS.  Can
someone explain this?

-Alex


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Where does Intel say this?

- -Randy Glenn

This coming from the guy with a system tray 7 icons wide... by 2
tall...
=================================================
Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org - PICxpert-at-picxpert.com
 PICxpert-at-yahoo.com - PICxpert-at-home.com
            http://www.picxpert.com/
=================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
[mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of Alexander Pita
Sent: January 25, 2001 14:59
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: discrepancy


According to the LART FAQ: "Its performance is around 250 MIPS", but
according to Intel, the performance of the SA-1100 is 2.1 MIPS.  Can
someone explain this?

- -Alex


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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JHwmEFPI3J+7bsYBkUf4H1Jy
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_________________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jan 25 23:02:08 2001
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Sorry for the stupid question, I didn't realize that Drhystone was the
measure and 2.1 was the version of the test.

-Alex

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jan 26 01:12:23 2001
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It was easier to lay out the board that way.


  // Wally

Celso Renato Goncalves Providelo wrote:
> 
>         Sorry , i also know that this question isn't what we can call that a good one ...
>         But I'm really afraid cause I don't understand the LART memory system
>         ...in specific the memory map ...
>         There are at least two details consuming my mind ....
>  First :
>         Why this strange order of the address and the data bus on the Flash devices ????
>         Sorry, I know that for sure there one reason ....I just want to know how ...
          please, can someone tell me ????
>  And second :
>         The same question for the DRAM memories ...and in specific how are you
>         using the A 24 pin to address those devices ????
>         The fact is ( like I read in the manual ) that DRAM controller attach
>         the address at A<10:21> making possible use devices until 12 rows ...in
>         the LART case 12 x 10 ...
>         I'm still reading and maybe there are the answer for this question
>         ....but I'd like to heard the position from the LART team , that
>         construct it ....or , of course , someone that can understand it ...
> 
>         I really can't see it ...and I'm feeling so stupid ...cause this I
>         request some help ...
> 
>         thanks in advance ...
> 
> 
> --
> Celso Providelo
> cprov@iris.sel.eesc.sc.usp.br
> Linux user #166906-96936
> LAMI-Laboratories of Microprocessors
> Department of Electrical Engineering
> University of Sao Paulo (USP - Sao Carlos)
> now at Otto-Schott-Institut für Glaschemie
> Friendrich-Schiller-Universität Jena
> Jena-Thüringer-Deutschland
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jan 26 01:21:16 2001
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From: Wallace Owen 
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To: Yan Zhao 
CC: Nicolai Mahncke , LART List 
Subject: Re: Small SA1110 board
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No, not really.  This board is made by the same people in Switzerland
that make a very small GPS board for the embedded market, which we're
using.  The RAM chips they're using are on uBGA on .75mm pitch!  It's
static RAM, so when you put this guy into sleep mode the power required
goes _way_ down.


Yan Zhao wrote:
> 
> Well, it is nothing more than Intel's evaluation
> board. Anyway, it is a good design.
> 
> Yan
> --- Nicolai Mahncke  wrote:
> > I just stumbled on this 37.5 x 37.5mm SA1110 with
> > 2MB SRAM and 4/8MB Flash.
> >
> > http://www.u-blox.ch/roger2/sr/
> >
> > They made it for M$ Windows CE but they also have
> > the Angel Debug Monitor
> > for it. Could this be of interest to the LART
> > community?
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Nicolai Mahncke
> > mailto:nicolai@reipur.com
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 08:34:38 2001
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Date: 31 Jan 2001 08:31:45 +0100
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Hi !

I have 2 questions (for now):

1.	Anybody knows where to find NEC's DRAM needed for LART  ?
2.	Is there any electronic shop in London worth visting to get some LART material (anything from 
SA-1100 to the end of the list :-) ).

Regards,

B.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 10:31:21 2001
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Date: 31 Jan 2001 10:24:30 +0100
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OK, that's nice, but I would like to build it myself - just to save a buck or two
(well tolar or two - but it doesn't matter :-) ).
More or less I managed to find links to parts exept for DRAM and DC-DC controler.
Of course PCB making will also be a problem, but I'll look into it when I have all the 
parts.

B.

On 31.01.2001 09:56:00 AM remote12 wrote:

>Hi there, we have complete and assembled LART boards already built which
>will be offered for sale sometime in the next two weeks. They just have to
>be tested. We will also have JTAG interface and KSB shortly.
>
>Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 10:40:22 2001
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Date: 31 Jan 2001 10:30:25 +0100
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Salut Jean-Francois,

well I am not french (just happen to work for a french company :-) ).

As far as I found out there is possibility to get:
SA-1100 for about 66 USD
Flash memory for about 20 USD

All the rest is eather irelevant or I can't find it. Well I acctualy stopped on
DRAM (and DC-DC controller)
and for MAXIM's parts; I ordered free samples and hopefully I'll get them.

B.


On 31.01.2001 10:08:00 AM jean-francois.deprun wrote:

>Hi,
>I am french and I look for LART material. Do you know prices of this
>material?
>I am looking for the DRAM inside the company.
>
>jfd
>
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Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:12:00 +0100
From: Bostjan JERKO 
To: lart 
Subject: Re: NEC's DRAM
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Thanks Chris for this info. I'll need it.
I found a dealer in my neighbouring country which has (according
to his HP some parts - but they are all Avail./Pls Call - so I'm not 
so sure). I'll contact them and see what will come up.

BTW, they are in the Arrow group.

B.

On 31.01.2001 11:45:00 AM remote12 wrote:

>Good luck on getting the parts. Do you have flash yet? The Max parts tend to
>be a bit tricky and the low ESR tants are very hard to find in quantities
>less than 500. The DRAMS are fairly easy, find a Micron dealer who has
>MT4LC4M16R6 64mb 4M*16 EDO DRAM. or ISSI dealer who has IS41LV16400. Forget
>looking for the NEC as they don`t make them anymore and the chances of
>finding some are very small. The flash is a nightmare as they are on
>allocation so you may get lucky with some of the big independent brokers.
>
>Rgds
>
>Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 13:19:04 2001
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Now that's not the information I wanted to hear, but ....
Just out of curiosity - what will be the price of your boards ?

B.

On 31.01.2001 01:09:00 PM remote12 wrote:

>Arrow don`t carry the low ESR tants or EDO and as far as know they are out
>of flash (because we bought it all). You best chance is looking for
>independent brokers who do not rely on allocation. They will be more
>expensive but will be able to get what you want. These franchised dealers
>often promise the earth but rarely deliver.
>
>Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 14:42:13 2001
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OK, I'll have to check my budget and see if I can afford it.
But it looks good. I guess ordering by mail is possible ?
Is your homepage www.cableinet.co.uk ?

B.

On 31.01.2001 02:17:00 PM remote12 wrote:

>Our boards are £495 inclusive of VAT.
>
>Chris
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jan 31 16:39:19 2001
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Subject: LART availability
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:35:41 +0100
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Hi I am new to LART,

I'am a network software engenear and I am searching a SBC with 4 ethernet
ports to host a multilink
ethernet multiplexer. I have read all the fine stuff on the LART web site
and read most of the mailing
list thread since january 2000.

I have sean that around 18/19 April there is a thread about getting an
assembled board. I am very, VERY interested with that if it is always
possible ? (With the cost please :) )

I am interrested with MainBoard/KSB/EthernetBoard(with the Four ports
units)/JTAG dongle.

Do you think it would be difficult to add a DiskOnChip (from M-Systems :
http://www.m-sys.com/prodFam.asp) to your very good board ?

Can you please feedback me about the LART availability ?

Best Regards,

--
Alexandre Cassen
Software Networking engenear
Alexandre.Cassen@canal-plus.com
Canal+ - France

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Feb  3 08:47:27 2001
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Can sa110_le-gcc compile Chinese(Unicode)?
I do not think so, then how change it?
Thanks!

Best Regards
May Wu

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Can sa110_le-gcc compile =
Chinese(Unicode)?
I do=20
not think so, then how change it?


Thanks!


 


Best Regards


May Wu


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Feb  3 16:40:44 2001
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:34:40 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Dorothy Wu 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: gcc
Message-ID: <20010203163440.C3556@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 03:45:30PM +0800, Dorothy Wu wrote:
>    Can sa110_le-gcc compile Chinese(Unicode)?
>    I do not think so, then how change it?

I never tried it. I remember this being asked on the gcc mailing list,
please check out the archives on http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/ . If you
can't find an answer, ask on the list (gcc@gcc.gnu.org) itself. Be sure
to include the version of the compiler when you ask (gcc -v), or
otherwise people won't be able to help you out.


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb  8 11:15:31 2001
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Subject: LART Wiki?
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:11:20 -0500
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As more LART boards get built and used there
may be some interesting input that could be shared
with others besides using the mailing list.

Has there been any thought about setting up
a LART Wiki page where everyone can
contribute? This would not replace the list,
just add another option.

		-Bill


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb  8 15:25:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:19:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: LART Wiki?
To: William Staniewicz 
cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <200102081015.LAA24321@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl>
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On Thu 08 Feb, William Staniewicz wrote:
> As more LART boards get built and used there
> may be some interesting input that could be shared
> with others besides using the mailing list.
> 
> Has there been any thought about setting up
> a LART Wiki page where everyone can
> contribute? 

armlinux.org has agreed to set up a faq-o-matic for ARMLinux stuff, which
isn't quite the same as a Wiki but is along similar lines. I've also just got
someone lined up to spend some time filling in the currently very empty
content. I suggest we try that and see how it goes. We can add a wiki later
if people feel the need...

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb  8 16:13:24 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:12:14 +0100
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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>Has there been any thought about setting up
>a LART Wiki page where everyone can
>contribute? This would not replace the list,
>just add another option.

Perhaps http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/LAR/ can be used as a starting point.

JDB.
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb  9 18:32:42 2001
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:28:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Matt Amos 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: small, cheap, efficient
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hi,

for a while now i have been wanting to build a lart (or similar
itsy/bitsy/assabet). and i was waiting avidly for people to start
building, so i could buy...

however, i had underestimated the costs of low number runs and the larts
being sold are way out of my price range...

i wonder if it is possible to build a modern capacity computer in your own
home (with appropriate equipment like acid-baths, soldering iron, drill)
from really really cheap components and have the end cost at less than
$100?

does anyone think this is possible?

thanks,

matt


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb  9 20:07:21 2001
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:06:51 +0100
To: LART list 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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[Reposted on behalf of Sales . Reply to them, not 
me. People, remember this is a closed list: only subscribed addresses 
are accepted as originators of new posts]


Aleph One Ltd of Cambridge, England and  remote12 in London, England are
pleased to announce that they have built some LART boards and are
building more, which will go on sale in February 01.

The cost is GBP495 each including tax and postage in Britain.

Tested boards without documentation are now available. In the week
commencing 22 February they will be available with these accessories:-

  'Guide to ARMLinux' on paper and CD ROM
   Five CDs of software, comprising
     a full Debian-ARM binary and source release
     suitable kernels, ramdisks, tools and
     documents for the LART
   JTAG connector and serial cable

Of course the accessories will be sent to the earliest buyers as soon as
they are ready.

The KSB Board is also going into production probably in the third week of
February. There will be an additional charge for it, which has not yet
been fixed. The Ethernet board is expected to follow.

Order are being taken now by Aleph One, and you are invited to indicate
if you want the Board alone as soon as possible, and the accessories when
they are ready, or if you want to wait for the complete package when the
accessories are prepared.

You can email your order to    sales@aleph1.co.uk

Payment by Bank Transfer is preferred, made directly to HSBC, City
Office, PO Box 85, Cambridge, Sort Code 40-16-08, Account 7136 3697, for
the account of Aleph One Ltd. Please ensure that (our) receiving Bank
Charges are paid by you, and advise Aleph One if you make a payment this
way.

Payment by MasterCard or VISA is acceptable, and no charge will be made
until the tested product has been despatched, usually by post.

UK institutions can issue Purchase Orders, for payment 30 days from
Invoice date.

The price to EU customers who quote an EU Tax Number is GBP423 inc
postage.

For overseas customers beyond the EU area the price is GBP425 including
air postage, and insurance where available.

These goods are priced in GBP Sterling. As an approximate guide, One GBP
is 1.5USD and 1.6 Euro, but these rates change daily.

Up-to-date information will continue to be available from

   http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/devboards/



Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb  9 21:13:48 2001
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On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Matt Amos wrote:

> hi,
> i wonder if it is possible to build a modern capacity computer in your own
> home (with appropriate equipment like acid-baths, soldering iron, drill)
> from really really cheap components and have the end cost at less than
> $100?

Nope, not a chance. Your best bet for that kind of price is a 2nd hand PC.
I can't think of any modern capacity CPU that doesn't either require
substantial support gubbins, or pain-in-the-arse manufacturing. The days
of wire-wrap are over, for 100MHz+ designs, especially if you want the
trappings that go with "modern". 
I've got a couple of trays of Arm710s, and bucket-loads of EDO Ram, which
I drag out from time to time, and think that it'd be nice to build a
cluster, then put away when I do the maths, and that's with the silicon on
the shelf. 
If anyone (private individual, or student) sends me a credible schematic
using Arm710 - TQFP and Alliance AS4C1M6E5-60JC Dram, I'll happily post
them a few sets to try... (same goes for Inmos T222s, Xilinx 2064s and
3042s. Truly persuasive people may get me to part with an SA1100, too.) 
If j.random.hacker wants to play with a 32-bit (ARM7) CPU in a low-cost
programmer-friendly environment, may I recommend Nintendos GameBoy Advance
- if it gets as much developer support as GB and CGB, it'll be an
excellent thing. http://www.devrs.com/gb may be a handy jump-point.  
Lart _is_ a great thing, but economy of scale really kicks in for major
manufacturers... Grim, but a fact of life - and I sit on both sides of
that particular fence.  

 > does anyone think this is possible? > 

I really wish it was...
(Of course, sponging off your employer or university really helps!)

Best of luck...

Steve


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Feb 11 13:09:47 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:04:05 +0100 (MET)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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Subject: Where to buy components for the LART main board?
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Hi

Will anyone who have currently build the LART main board please tell me
where they bought the following components:

The SA-1100 processor
The DT28F160F3B fast boot block flash memory
The NEC uPD465165 64Mbit 4Mx16 EDO DRAM

I prefer an European distributor.

Best regards
Martin Schmidt

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Feb 13 22:58:07 2001
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From: "Karthik DK" 
To: 
Subject: blob on assabet - usage
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:55:53 -0800
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Hi
I went through the FAQ where Eric clearly mentions how to run blob on
assabet. But I have one small problem. I managed to compile blob for assabet
and burn it on assabet's flash.
I have two questions here:
1) I use Assabet/Neponset board. Is it better to burn it on Assabet flash or
Neponset flash?
2) When I compiled blob, I got two images: blob and blob-elf32. Which one
should I use?

I now power-cycled the board. I get the following message in the console:

Consider yourself LARTed!
Starting the memory tester...
Zeroing memory...0xD0000000
Zeroing done. Testing for aliases...

THis is not fully in coherence with the messages mentioned at the site:
After "Consider yourself LARTed!" I dont get "Running from internal Flash."
as mentioned on webpage.

Also, I have not yet burnt the kernel onto flash, which is probably the
reason why it is getting stuck after "Zeroing done...... "
Now, my problem is this:
I use ARM Debugger for Windows v2.5 to download kernel and RAMdisk. But once
the blob runs, I am not allowed to do remote debugging using ARM debugger
for Windows. I think blob takes up the serial link or something like that.
In the procedure, it is suggested that I download the kernel and ramdisk
next. So, how do I do that?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for ur patience
KAR.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Feb 14 17:47:03 2001
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:40:20 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Karthik DK 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: blob on assabet - usage
Message-ID: <20010214174020.K27787@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 01:55:53PM -0800, Karthik DK wrote:
> I went through the FAQ where Eric clearly mentions how to run blob on
> assabet. But I have one small problem. I managed to compile blob for assabet
> and burn it on assabet's flash.
> I have two questions here:
> 1) I use Assabet/Neponset board. Is it better to burn it on Assabet flash or
> Neponset flash?

Ehm, dunno. I never tried the Assabet+Neponset combo. "Whatever works
for you" might be a good answer ;-)

> 2) When I compiled blob, I got two images: blob and blob-elf32. Which one
> should I use?

blob. blob is the same file as blob-elf32, but with all ELF headers
stripped.

> I now power-cycled the board. I get the following message in the console:
> 
> Consider yourself LARTed!
> Starting the memory tester...
> Zeroing memory...0xD0000000
> Zeroing done. Testing for aliases...
> 
> THis is not fully in coherence with the messages mentioned at the site:
> After "Consider yourself LARTed!" I dont get "Running from internal Flash."
> as mentioned on webpage.

That's because Assabet doesn't know the concept of internal/external
flash.

> Also, I have not yet burnt the kernel onto flash, which is probably the
> reason why it is getting stuck after "Zeroing done...... "

Ehm no, you should at least get a "blob>" prompt.

> Now, my problem is this:
> I use ARM Debugger for Windows v2.5 to download kernel and RAMdisk. But once
> the blob runs, I am not allowed to do remote debugging using ARM debugger
> for Windows. I think blob takes up the serial link or something like that.

Could be, but maybe it's even simpler: blob doesn't have debugging
stubs so it simply refuses to cooperate with the debugger. But then
again, I don't do Windows, so I don't now how the ARM Debugger for
Windows is supposed to work.

> In the procedure, it is suggested that I download the kernel and ramdisk
> next. So, how do I do that?

Build the latest kernel from (linux-2.4.1-rmk1-np1 at time of writing)
and download a ramdisk for it. You can either use the ramdisk from the
LART site or Nicolas Pitre's ramdisk, available at:

  ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/


Erik

PS: The kernel from the LART site is compiled for LART and will not
    work for Assabet.

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb 15 05:01:21 2001
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From: Dorothy Wu 
Subject: boot?
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09745.D92EBB70
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="big5"
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hi,
I have an assabet/sa1110 board.
I want to know how to boot the linux from flash rom and how to write =
files into rom when linux is running.
Which boot utility can I use?
What's the process linux boot on rom?
Must I  use any special file system when I write files into rom?

Stock


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09745.D92EBB70
Content-Type: text/html;
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hi,


I have an assabet/sa1110 =
board.


I want to know how to boot the linux =
from flash rom=20
and how to write files into rom when linux is running.


Which boot utility can I =
use?


What's the process linux boot on =
rom?


Must I  use any special file =
system when I=20
write files into rom?


 


Stock


 


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09745.D92EBB70--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb 16 04:18:53 2001
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From: "Stock Wu" 
To: 
Subject: boot again?
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:15:46 +0800
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hi,
Sorry for last message's wrong format, I raise my question again.
I use kernel-2.4 and nico's ramdisk in Assabet/sa1110.
I know how to boot Assabet by using angelboot.
But I want to boot the target from flash.
I think I can program the kernel and ramdisk into the flash rom,
then map them into the ram,
at last, boot it.
Is my idea possible?
If can, what should I do for it?

thanks,

Stock


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Message-Id: <200102161309.OAA19004@mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl>
Subject: 80200 XScale CPU
CC: lart@localhostnl.demon.nl
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:05:40 -0500
To: linux-arm@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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I am just curious what people are now doing or plan
to do with the 80200 XScale now that Linux has been
made to run on it.

Are there any projects in the making and if there are what
are some good links to them? Could the same ideas and
concepts of the LART be applied to this?

		-Bill

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb 16 15:51:52 2001
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Subject: 80200 XScale CPU
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:47:39 -0500
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Please disregard the email address:

	lart@localhostnl.demon.nl

The "alias" feature on my Plan 9 mail system decided
to create this address for some reason without
my knowledge.

		-Bill


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Feb 19 14:07:49 2001
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Message-ID: <02d101c09a75$96a01aa0$64c8a8c0@wmjackson.net>
From: "Wayne Jackson" 
To: 
Subject: Austrlian manufacturer or component distributors...
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:12:19 +1000
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Does anyone know of a firm in Australia either making the boards, or supplying
the "kit" form?

Wayne Jackson

ICBM Target Coords: 27.500S, 153.017E

http://www.powerup.com.au/~wjackson
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wmjackson
http://users.bigpond.net.au/warp_kez


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Hello lart,

   unsubscribe

-- 
Best regards,
 richard_gang                          mailto:richard_gang@sina.com

 2001Äê2ÔÂ19ÈÕ                      vV^Vv 
                                / O O \ 
                               o| | |o 
                                 \ - / 
-------------------------- oOOO --------0OOo-----------------------
| chen gang               |    add:B6 Minhhu Build,#24Huangsi,    | 
| R&D development         |    Xicheng District,Beijing,China     |
|                         |                                       | 
| SEL SYSTEM LTD.         |    tel:86-10-62077500-214             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Feb 20 02:24:09 2001
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Hello
   unsubscribe lart


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 richard_gang                            mailto:richard_gang@sina.com



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Feb 20 08:47:38 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:41:21 +0100 (MET)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
X-Sender: martin@flovmand.control.auc.dk
To: Laurie van Someren 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Where to buy components for the LART main board?
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On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Laurie van Someren wrote:
> On Sun 11 Feb, Martin Jansen Schmidt wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > Will anyone who have currently build the LART main board please tell me
> > where they bought the following components:
> > 
> > The SA-1100 processor
> 
> We had no difficulty getting these from Arrow, a big UK distrubtor, at
> GBP36
> 
> > The DT28F160F3B fast boot block flash memory
> 
> We had great difficulty getting these, and finally did, from Arrow. I
> believe they are still 'On Allocation', and they cost about GBP13 each. 
> 
> > The NEC uPD465165 64Mbit 4Mx16 EDO DRAM
> 
> We had the greatest dificulty getting these, and found very expensive
> ones far away. They are obsolete now.

Someone gave me this replacement chip: Micron MT4LC4M16R6 or MT4LC4M16F5.

> Good luck! If you find plentiful sources please let us know!

Actual we now droped building it our self and ordered one board from you
(Aleph One).

mvh. Martin

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb 23 20:04:28 2001
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:48:45 -0600
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "Eric N. Johnson (ACD)" 
Subject: Flash Configuration
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I have two question about the Flash used in the LART.

One:
I see that the "F3" series flash used supports Async Page mode reads.  The 
text referenced below states that the 1100 does not work properly with 
Async Page mode memory.  Does the LART do all of it's flash accesses in 
non-burst mode?  (The "F3" also supports Sync Burst mode, but the 1100 
memory interface doesn't work with sync. memories)

If this is the case, does this have any performance implications?  I know 
the Adgenda Computing team is working on "Execute in Place" ("XIP") for 
linux.  ROM performance is not an issue as long as the CPU is running 
primarily from RAM, but XIP could change this.

Two:
Are there any known problems with using the 28F800F3 instead of the 
28F160F3 (The '800 is just an 8 M-bit version of the standard 16 M-bit 
flash). I expect I'll have to modify BLOB and J-Flash to recognize the 
'800, but don't see this as a major problem.  The '800 is the only version 
of this flash that I've been able to buy.

Thanks
Eric


Here's the info from Intel on Page-Mode ROM:  Quoted from Section 3.4 of 
Intel App Note 702 titled "StrataFlash~Y Memory to StrongARM * SA-1100 CPU 
Design Guide

------Begin text clip----
3.4 SA1100 with DRAM Interface on the System

When an SA1100 is controlling DRAM in a system, it cannot use the
asynchronous page-mode interface for flash in that same system. Flash
and DRAM can co-exist in an SA1100 system only by using a non page-mode
asynchronous interface to the flash. This limitation results from the
SA1100 bus interface unit which deasserts flash~Rs CE, while inserting
refresh cycle in the middle of the page-mode access. It re-asserts CE to
finish the page but does not meet (t ELQV ) flash requirement.

It will not have this problem if the system does not use DRAM, because
refresh cycles would not be interrupting flash reads.
-----End text clip----

------------------------------------
Eric Johnson, Electrical Engineer
Advanced Communication Design
   7901 12th Avenue South
   Bloomington, MN 55425
Ph: 952-854-4000  Fax: 952-854-5774

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Feb 23 22:05:39 2001
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:04:20 -0800
From: Wallace Owen 
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Subject: JFlash tweak
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------D58531E95C99AE4A015A8DD3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

We've modified Intel's jflash program to make it a bit more robust.  The modified
version erases the entire device then writes a 64Kbyte block at a time, then veri-
fies the block.  If it verifies, the program moves on to the next block; otherwise
it retries the writing and verifying, up to three times.

We did this because we found we were spending about 20 minutes flashing our 1.1MByte
VxWorks app into our StrongARM, and that it was occasionally failing near the end
and making us reflash from the beginning.  If you're burning large images (sometimes
there's no way around it), this can save considerable time.

This version was derived from the Asabet version, modified to work with our design
which has no CPLDs, then further modified to support the incremental flash
programming described above.

This expects to run under Windows, so it's not derived from Nico's version.  The
changes to get it to work under Linux are hopefully trivial.


  // Wally
--------------D58531E95C99AE4A015A8DD3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
 name="JFlashBurner.cpp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="JFlashBurner.cpp"

// *********************************************************************************
//
// JFlashBurner.cpp : Defines the entry point for the console application.
// 
// PURPOSE:
// This program burns a program into an Intel flash chip.
// We, CardioNet, modified original Intel code.
// The original Intel code would write the program to the whole
// chip and then verify it.  Writing and verifying is slow.
// If you have a one megabyte file, write it, and then start to 
// verify the beginning and find that it was bad you'll be irritated
// that you had to wait so long!  So our modification will write an
// up to 64K block, verify it, and then go to the next 64K block.
// Also, if the verification of the block fails we will attempt the 
// write and verify cycle a couple of more times before giving up.
//
// AUTHOR:
// Jonathan Spurgin
//
// First Revision Date:
// 20-FEB-2001
//
// *********************************************************************************


//JFLASH V1.2
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include "sa1110jtag.h"

#define VERSION "1.2"


#define LPT1 0x3bc	// hardware base address for parallel port
#define LPT2 0x378	// the search order is LPT1 then 2 then 3
#define LPT3 0x278	// first valid address found is used (re-order if needed for multiple ports)

#define SA1110ID  "**** 1001001001100001 00000001001 1"	// JTAG ID-codes for the SA-1110
#define PZ3128ID  "**** 0000000010001100 00000010101 1"	// and the 2 CPLD also in the chain
//#define PZ3032ID  "0000 0000000000011010 00000010101 1"	// contains version, part, and vendor codes
//#define PZ3032AID "0000 0000100000001010 00000010101 1"
#define PZ3032SID "**** 0000*000000*1010 00000010101 1"	// support both the 'A' and non 'A' versions of the part


#define READ 0		// Flags used to modify the SA-1110 JTAG chain data depending on
#define WRITE 1		// the access mode of the Flash Memory
#define SETUP 2
#define HOLD 3
#define RS 4

#define IP 0		// Flag used when accessing the parallel port
#define RP 1		// RP = 'read port', IP = 'ignore port', using IP will speed access

#define MAX_IN_LENGTH 100 // max length for user input strings
#define STATUS_UPDATE 2	// time between updates of program/verify status in seconds

int lpt_address;	// Global variable assigned to parallel port address

FILE *in_file;


// 'rp' : RP (read port) or IP (ignore port).
int putp(int tdi, int tms, int rp);  // writes the JTAG data on the parallel port

void id_command(void);	// issues the JTAG command to read the device ID for all 3 chips

void bypass_all(void);	// issues the JTAG command to put all 3 device in bypass mode

void extest(void);		// issues the JTAG command EXTEST to the SA-1110

// Passes read/write/setup data for the Flash memory
// 'rw' : Can be READ or WRITE.
// 'rp' : RP (read port) or IP (ignore port).
// Returns busdat (data on bus?)
DWORD access_rom(int rw, DWORD address, DWORD data, int rp);	

// Read/write access to the SA-1110 pins
// 'rw' : Can be READ or WRITE.
// 'rp' : RP (read port) or IP (ignore port).
// Returns busdat (data on bus?)
DWORD access_bus(int rw, DWORD address, DWORD data, int rp);	

int test_port(void);	// Looks for and finds a valid parallel port address

int check_id(char *device_id);// Compares the device IDs for the 3 JTAG chips to expected values

void error_out( char* error_string );	// Prints error and exits program

void erase_flash(DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize, DWORD block_size, DWORD max_erase_time, int block_number);


void program_flash_buf( const DWORD max_write_buffer, const DWORD base_address, const DWORD buffer[], const DWORD buffer_item_count );
bool verify_flash( const DWORD base_address, const DWORD buffer[], const DWORD buffer_item_count );

// Old versions.
void program_flash(DWORD max_write_buffer, DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize);
void verify_flash(DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize);

void test_logic_reset(void);

void test_lock_flash(DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize, DWORD block_size, DWORD max_erase_time, int block_number);


// Returns 'true' if wrote successfully, else 'false'.
bool write_a_block( 
	const DWORD base_address, 
	const DWORD last_non_zero, 
	const DWORD last_non_ff, 
	const DWORD fsize, 
	DWORD buffer[], 
	const DWORD bufferSize,
	const bool initialize   // set to true if you want to erase device.
	);


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// argc == 1 : EXE name.
// argc == 2 : Input file name.
// argc == 3 : 'P' option.
// argc == 4 : Block Number
void main( int argc, char *argv[] )
{
	printf("JFLASH Version %s\n", VERSION );
	printf("***** This is the CardioNet-modified version ***** \n" );
	printf("***** It writes and verifies in 64K blocks   ***** \n" );



   //Test operating system, if WinNT or Win2000 then get device driver handle
	OSVERSIONINFO osvi;
	osvi.dwOSVersionInfoSize = sizeof(OSVERSIONINFO);
	GetVersionEx(&osvi);
	if(osvi.dwPlatformId == VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT)
	{
		HANDLE h;

		h = CreateFile("\\\\.\\giveio", GENERIC_READ, 0, NULL,
					OPEN_EXISTING, FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, NULL);

		if(h == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE)
			error_out("Couldn't access 'giveio' device");
		CloseHandle(h);
	}


	// find a valid parallel port address
	lpt_address = test_port();	
	if(!lpt_address)
		error_out("Error, unable to find parallel port");


	char filename[MAX_IN_LENGTH];
	if(argc >= 2)
		strcpy(filename,argv[1]);
	else
	{
		printf("enter binary file name: ");
		gets(filename);
	}



	if( (in_file = fopen(filename, "rb" )) == NULL)
		error_out("error, can not open binary input file");


	// Here is looks like we read the file to set the following variables:
	// 'fsize'         = Number of DWORDs in the input file.
	//                   There are cases where we will later set 'fsize' to 
	//                   'last_non_zero' or 'last_non_ff'.
	//
	// 'last_non_zero' = Last DWORD place in the file where there is a non-0x00000000.
	// 'last_non_ff'   = Last DWORD place in the file where there is a non-0xFFFFFFFF.
	// 
	DWORD fsize = 0;
	DWORD last_non_zero = 0 ;
	DWORD last_non_ff = 0;
	for(;;)
	{
		DWORD li;
		int n = fread((DWORD *)&li, sizeof(DWORD) , 1, in_file);
		if(feof(in_file))break; // Any bytes not on a 4 byte boundry at end-of-file will be ignored
		fsize++;
		if(li != 0 && li != 0xffffffff) // Find point in file were only 0's and ff's remain
			last_non_zero = fsize;
		if(li != 0xffffffff)  // Find point in file were only ff's remain
			last_non_ff = fsize;
	}

	rewind(in_file);

//	if(fsize * 2 > dsize)
//		error_out("error, file size is bigger than device size");

	fsize = last_non_ff;  // Don't waste time programming ff's at the end of the file this is the erase state




	char option = 'P';
	if(argc >= 3)
		option = toupper(*argv[2]);


	// Here is where we erase and program the flash memory.
	if(option == 'P')
	{

		// This can be up to 64K, but at the end of the file it probably be less that 64K.
		const DWORD SIZE64K = 0x0000FFFF + 1;
		const DWORD bufferSize = SIZE64K / sizeof(DWORD);
		DWORD buffer[ bufferSize ];


		DWORD address = 0x00000000;
		

		printf("Starting to programming ...\n");


		bool initialize = true;


		// Keep track of the number of blocks we have written.
		int iBlockCounter = 0;


		// Keep looping here, reading up to 64K blocks, writing the input file to the flash.
		while(1)
		{
			const size_t bytesRead = fread( buffer, sizeof(BYTE), SIZE64K, in_file );

			if( 0 < bytesRead )
			{
				const DWORD bufferItemCount = bytesRead / sizeof(DWORD);
				printf( "\n----- About to write %d bytes ------ Block #%d ------\n", bytesRead, iBlockCounter );

				// Retry a few times if failure.
				int iRetryCount = 0;
				bool bWriteSuccessful = false;

				while( (false == bWriteSuccessful) && (iRetryCount < 3) )
				{
					printf( "Flash write attempt #%d\n", iRetryCount + 1 );
					bWriteSuccessful = write_a_block( address, last_non_zero, last_non_ff, fsize, buffer, bufferItemCount, initialize );

					if( false == bWriteSuccessful )
					{
						printf( "Writing to flash failed!\n" );
					}

					iRetryCount++;
				}


				// Exit if we failed!
				if( false == bWriteSuccessful )
				{
					error_out("Tried to re-write a block a few times and failed each!");					
				}
				
				
				initialize = false;
				address += bufferSize;
			}
			else
			{
				// At the end of the file!
				break;
			}


			iBlockCounter++;
		}

		printf("Programming done!\n");
	}


	fclose(in_file);
}


bool write_a_block( 
	
	const DWORD base_address, 
	const DWORD last_non_zero, 
	const DWORD last_non_ff, 
	const DWORD fsize, 
	DWORD buffer[], 
	const DWORD bufferSize,
	const bool initialize )

{
	test_logic_reset();

	id_command();
	bypass_all();

	access_rom(SETUP, 0, 0x500050L, IP); // clear status register
	access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0x500050L, IP);
	access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0x500050L, IP);

	access_rom(SETUP, 0, 0x980098L, IP); // read query
	access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0x980098L, IP);
	access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0x980098L, IP);

	// To read data from the Flash Memory you must first fill the SA-1110 JTAG chain
	// with the Address, then pump the entire chain out.
	// however while pumping data out you can be pumping the next cycle's Address in
	// Therefore the JTAG chain looks like a pipeline, valid read data always coming
	// out one cycle late.

	// Note that both Flash Memory devices are accessed in parallel (i.e. 32 data bits)
	access_rom(READ, 0x10, 0, IP);  // Test to see if the Flash supports Query Structured Output

	if(access_rom(READ, 0x11, 0, RP) != 0x510051L) //Q
		error_out("error reading flash attribute space\ncheck cables, power and flash sockets");

	if(access_rom(READ, 0x12, 0, RP) != 0x520052L) //R
		error_out("error reading flash attribute space R");

	if(access_rom(READ, 0x25, 0, RP) != 0x590059L) //Y
		error_out("error reading flash attribute space Y\n");


	DWORD max_erase_time = access_rom(READ, 0x27, 0, RP);  // "n" such that the max block erase time = 2^n
	if((max_erase_time & 0xffffL) != (max_erase_time >> 16)) // both devices should be the same time
		error_out("error, max erase time of E11 and E12 are different");
	max_erase_time = 1 << (max_erase_time & 0xffffL);  // convert erase time 2^n to the number of seconds


	// Device size.
	DWORD dsize = access_rom(READ, 0x2a, 0, RP);  // "n" such that the device size = 2^n in number of bytes
	if((dsize & 0xffffL) != (dsize >> 16)) // both devices should be the same size
		error_out("error, device size of E11 and E12 are different");
	dsize = 1 << (dsize & 0xffffL);  // convert data size from 2^n to the number of bytes


	DWORD max_write_buffer = access_rom(READ, 0x2d, 0, RP);  // "n" such that the max num of bytes in write buffer = 2^n
	if((max_write_buffer & 0xffffL) != (max_write_buffer >> 16)) // both devices should have the same write buffer size
		error_out("error, write buffer size of E11 and E12 are different");
	max_write_buffer = (1 << (max_write_buffer & 0xffffL)) / 2;  // convert from 2^n bytes to the number of words
	// Turned out to be 16.
	//printf( "max_write_buffer = %d\n" , max_write_buffer ); 


	int nblocks = access_rom(READ, 0x2e, 0, RP);  // get the number of erase blocks in Flash - 1
	if((nblocks & 0xffffL) != (nblocks >> 16))	// both devices should have the same number
		error_out("error, number of blocks of E11 and E12 are different");
	nblocks = (nblocks & 0xffffL) + 1L;  // need to add '1' for true number


	const DWORD block_size = dsize / 2 / nblocks;

	int block_number = 0;


	// Only do the following when we are first starting.
	if( true == initialize )
	{
		test_lock_flash( base_address, fsize, block_size, max_erase_time, block_number );
		// "erase_flash()" is very quick.
		erase_flash( base_address, fsize, block_size, max_erase_time, block_number );
	}


	DWORD address = base_address;

	program_flash_buf( max_write_buffer, address, buffer, bufferSize );

	// put back into read mode
	access_rom( SETUP, 0, 0xff00ffL, IP ); 
	access_rom( WRITE, 0, 0xff00ffL, IP );
	access_rom( HOLD, 0, 0xff00ffL, IP );
	access_rom( READ, base_address, 0x0L, IP); //extra read to get the pipeline going
	
	const bool returnValue = verify_flash( address, buffer, bufferSize );
	address += bufferSize;
	test_logic_reset();

	return returnValue;
}


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


void program_flash_buf( const DWORD max_write_buffer, const DWORD base_address, const DWORD buffer[], const DWORD buffer_item_count )
{
	printf( "program_flash_buf @ 0x%08x, DWORD count = %d\n", base_address, buffer_item_count );
	
	
	// "Write Buffer" flow.
	// This uses almost half the cycles required by "word programming" flow
	// Status register is not read to save time.  There is also no checking to see
	// if maximum "Write Buffer Program Time" is violated.  However even with the
	// fastest parallel port bus speed this should not be a problem
	// (i.e. 16 words * 300 JTAG chain length * 4 parallel port cycles * 1uS fast
	// parallel port cycle = 19mS, typical write buffer program times are in the 200uS range).

	DWORD write_word_count = (max_write_buffer - 1) + ((max_write_buffer - 1) << 16);
	
	time_t start;
	time(&start);

	// This is the index for 'buffer[]' , which gets incremented.
	DWORD bufferIndex = 0;


	for( DWORD lj = base_address; lj < buffer_item_count + base_address; lj = lj + max_write_buffer )
	{
		access_rom(WRITE, lj, 0xe800e8L, IP); // write buffer command
		access_rom(HOLD, lj, 0xe800e8L, IP);

		access_rom(WRITE, lj, write_word_count, IP); // write word count (max write buffer size)
		access_rom(HOLD, lj, write_word_count, IP);

		time_t now;
		time(&now);

		if( difftime(now,start) > STATUS_UPDATE )	// Update status every 2 seconds
		{
			printf("Writing flash at hex address 0x%08x, %5.2f%% done    \r"
				,lj,(float)(lj - base_address)/(float)buffer_item_count*100.0);
			time(&start);
		}

		for(DWORD lk = 0; lk < max_write_buffer; lk++)
		{
			DWORD li = buffer[ bufferIndex++ ];
			access_rom(WRITE, lj+lk, li, IP);  // Write buffer data
			access_rom(HOLD, lj+lk, li, IP);  // New
		}

		access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0xd000d0L, IP); // Program Buffer to Flash Confirm
		access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0xd000d0L, IP);  //New
	}

	//printf( "\n" );
}


bool verify_flash( const DWORD base_address, const DWORD buffer[], const DWORD buffer_item_count )
{
	//printf( "verify_flash @ 0x%08x, DWORD count = %d\n", base_address, buffer_item_count );
	
	time_t start;
	time(&start);

	// This is the index for 'buffer[]' , which gets incremented.
	DWORD bufferIndex = 0;

	for(DWORD lj = base_address + 1; lj <= buffer_item_count + base_address; lj++)
	{
		const DWORD li = buffer[ bufferIndex++ ];
		const DWORD li1 = access_rom(READ, lj, 0x0L, RP);

		time_t now;
		time(&now);

		if( difftime(now,start) > STATUS_UPDATE )	// Update status every 2 seconds
		{
			printf("Verifying flash at hex address 0x%08x, %5.2f%% done    \r"
				,lj,(float)(lj - base_address)/(float)buffer_item_count*100.0);
			time(&start);
		}

		if( li != li1 )
		{
			printf("verify error at address = 0x%08x exp_dat = 0x%08x act_dat = 0x%08x\n", lj - 1, li, li1 );
			return false;
		}
	}

	printf("Verification successful!                                                    \n");
	return true;
}




int putp(int tdi, int tms, int rp)
{
// Cable used had 100 ohm resistors between the following pins
// (Cable shipped as part of SA-1110 Development Kit)
// Output pins (LPT driving)
// LPT D0 Pin 2 and TCK J10 Pin 4
// LPT D1 Pin 3 and TDI J10 Pin 11
// LPT D2 Pin 4 and TMS J10 Pin 9
//
// Input pin (SA-1110 board drives)
// LPT Busy Pin 11 and TDO J10 Pin 13

	int tdo = -1;
	_outp(lpt_address, tms*4+tdi*2);	// TCK low

	for (int i=0; i<0x7fffff;i++);
	_outp(lpt_address, tms*4+tdi*2+1);	// TCK high

	for ( i=0; i<0x7fffff;i++);
	if(rp == RP)_outp(lpt_address, tms*4+tdi*2);	// TCK low
	for ( i=0; i<0x7fffff;i++);

	if(rp == RP)tdo = !((int)_inp(lpt_address + 1) >> 7);	// get TDO data
	for ( i=0; i<0x7fffff;i++);

	return tdo;
}



void id_command(void)
{
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);	//select IR scan
	putp(1,0,IP);	//capture IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//shift IR

	putp(0,0,IP);	//SA1110 IDCODE
	putp(1,0,IP);	//
	putp(1,0,IP);	//
	putp(0,0,IP);	//
	putp(0,1,IP);	//Exit1-IR

	putp(1,1,IP);	//Update-IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,0,IP);

	if(check_id(SA1110ID))
		error_out("failed to read device ID for the SA-1110");

	putp(1,1,IP);	//Exit1-DR
	putp(1,1,IP);	//Update-DR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle

}




void bypass_all(void)
{
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);	//select IR scan
	putp(1,0,IP);	//capture IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//shift IR

	putp(1,0,IP);	//SA1110 BYPASS
	putp(1,0,IP);	//
	putp(1,0,IP);	//
	putp(1,0,IP);	//
	putp(1,1,IP);	//Exit1-IR

	putp(1,1,IP);	//Update-IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle

}



void extest(void)
{
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);	//select IR scan
	putp(1,0,IP);	//capture IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//shift IR

	putp(0,0,IP);	//SA1110 extest
	putp(0,0,IP);	//
	putp(0,0,IP);	//
	putp(0,0,IP);	//
	putp(0,1,IP);	//Exit1-IR

	putp(1,1,IP);	//Update-IR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle

}


DWORD access_rom(int rw, DWORD address, DWORD data, int rp)
{
	// Shift Flash address making A2 the LSB
	return(access_bus(rw, address << 2, data, rp));
}


DWORD access_bus(int rw, DWORD address, DWORD data, int rp)
{
	// Preset SA-1110 pins to default values (all others set in sa1110jtag.h)
	pin[nCS0_OUT] = 1;
	pin[nCS1_OUT] = 1;
	pin[nCS2_OUT] = 1;
	pin[nCS3_OUT] = 1;
	pin[nCS4_OUT] = 1;
	pin[nCS5_OUT] = 1;

	pin[nOE_OUT] = 0;
	pin[nWE_OUT] = 1;
	pin[RD_nWR_OUT] = 0;

	pin[D31_0_EN] = 1;

	for(int i = 0; i < 26; i++)
		pin[i+28] = (int)((address >> i) & 1);	// set address 0 thru 25

	if(rw == READ)
	{
		pin[RD_nWR_OUT] = 1;

		switch(address >> 27)
		{
			case 0:{pin[nCS0_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 1:{pin[nCS1_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 2:{pin[nCS2_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 3:{pin[nCS3_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 4:{pin[nCS4_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 5:{pin[nCS5_OUT] = 0; break;}
		}
	}

	if(rw == WRITE)
	{
		pin[nWE_OUT] = 0;
		pin[nOE_OUT] = 1;
		pin[D31_0_EN] = 0;  // switch data pins to drive
		switch(address >> 27)  // set CS pin for corresponding address
		{
			case 0:{pin[nCS0_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 1:{pin[nCS1_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 2:{pin[nCS2_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 3:{pin[nCS3_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 4:{pin[nCS4_OUT] = 0; break;}
			case 5:{pin[nCS5_OUT] = 0; break;}
		}

		for(DWORD li = 0L; li < 32L; li++)
			pin[dat_order[li]] = (int)((data >> li) & 1L);	// set data pins
	}

	if(rw == SETUP || rw == HOLD)	// just like a write except WE, WE needs setup time
	{
		pin[nOE_OUT] = 1;
		pin[D31_0_EN] = 0;
		for(DWORD li = 0L; li < 32L; li++)
			pin[dat_order[li]] = (int)((data >> li) & 1L);	// serialize data pins
	}

	if(rw == RS)	// setup prior to RD_nWR_OUT
	{
		pin[nOE_OUT] = 1;
	}

	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,1,IP);	//select DR scan
	putp(1,0,IP);	//capture DR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//shift IR

	int out_dat[300];
	for(i = 0; i < 291; i++)	// shift write data in to JTAG port and read data out
		out_dat[i] = putp(pin[i],0,rp);

//	putp(0,0,IP);
//	putp(0,0,IP);
	putp(0,1,IP);	//Exit1-DR
	putp(1,1,IP);	//Update-DR
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle
	putp(1,0,IP);	//Run-Test/Idle

	DWORD busdat = 0;

	for(i = 0; i < 32; i++)	// convert serial data to single DWORD
	{
		busdat = busdat | (DWORD)(out_dat[dat_order[i] - 2] << i);
	}
	extest();
	return(busdat);
}



int test_port(void)
{
	
	// search for valid parallel port
		_outp(LPT1, 0x55);
		if((int)_inp(LPT1) == 0x55)return LPT1;
		_outp(LPT2, 0x55);
		if((int)_inp(LPT2) == 0x55)return LPT2;
		_outp(LPT1, 0x55);
		if((int)_inp(LPT3) == 0x55)return LPT3;
	return(0);	// return zero if none found
}



int check_id(char *device_id)
{
	// compare passed device ID to the one returned from the ID command
	char in_id[40];
	BOOL error_flag = FALSE;


	for(int i = 34; i >= 0; i--)
	{
		if(i == 4 || i == 21 || i == 33)
		{
			in_id[i] = ' ';
			i--;
		}
		if(putp(1,0,RP) == 0)
			in_id[i] = '0';
		else
			in_id[i] = '1';

		if((in_id[i] != *(device_id + i)) && (*(device_id + i) != '*'))
		{
			error_flag = TRUE;
			
		}
	}
	in_id[35] = 0;

	
	if(error_flag)
	{
		printf("error, failed to read device ID\n");
		printf("check cables and power\n");
		printf("ACT: %s\n",in_id);
		printf("EXP: %s\n\n",device_id);
		return -1;
	}

	if(!strcmp(device_id,SA1110ID))	// print SA-1110 device revision
	{
		int sa_rev =
			(int)(in_id[0] - '0') * 8 +
			(int)(in_id[1] - '0') * 4 +
			(int)(in_id[2] - '0') * 2 +
			(int)(in_id[3] - '0');
		switch(sa_rev)
		{
			case 0: printf("SA-1110 revision A0\n"); break;
			case 4: printf("SA-1110 revision B0\n"); break;
			case 5: printf("SA-1110 revision B1\n"); break;
			case 6: printf("SA-1110 revision B2\n"); break;
			case 8: printf("SA-1110 revision B4\n"); break;
			default: printf("SA-1110 revision B4 + %d\n",sa_rev - 8);
		}

	}	

	return 0;
}



void error_out(char *error_string)
{
	printf("%s\n",error_string);
	printf( "Press any key to exit ..." );
	getchar();
	exit(0);
}


void erase_flash(DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize, DWORD block_size, DWORD max_erase_time, int block_number)
{
	time_t start, now;

	printf("Starting erase\n");

	for(DWORD lj = base_address; lj < fsize + base_address; lj = lj + block_size)  // Erase only blocks to be programmed
		{
		access_rom(SETUP, 0, 0x200020L, IP); // Erase block command
		access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0x200020L, IP);
		access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0x200020L, IP);

		access_rom(SETUP, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP); // Erase confirm at the block address
		access_rom(WRITE, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP);
		access_rom(HOLD, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP);

		time(&start);
		printf("Erasing block %3d   \r",block_number++);
		while(access_rom(RS, 0, 0, RP) != 0x800080L)	// Loop until successful status return
			{
			access_rom(READ, 0, 0, RP);
			time(&now);
			if(difftime(now,start) > max_erase_time + 1)	// Check for erase timeout
				error_out("Error, Block erase timed out");
			}
		}
	printf("Erasing done                                           \n");
}


void test_logic_reset(void)
{
	putp(1,1,IP);	// keep TMS set to 1 force a test logic reset
	putp(1,1,IP);	// no matter where you are in the TAP controller
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);
	putp(1,1,IP);
}


void test_lock_flash(DWORD base_address, DWORD fsize, DWORD block_size, DWORD max_erase_time, int block_number)
{
	time_t start, now;


	for(DWORD lj = base_address; lj < fsize + base_address; lj = lj + block_size)  // Test only blocks to be programmed
		{
		access_rom(SETUP, 0, 0x900090L, IP); // Read Identifier Codes
		access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0x900090L, IP);
		access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0x900090L, IP);

		access_rom(READ, lj + 2, 0, IP); // read lock configuration (extra read to get JTAG pipeline going)
		if(access_rom(READ, lj + 2, 0, RP) == 0x10001)
			{
			printf("Block of Flash Memory is Write Locked, would you like to unlock it? [y/n]: ");
			if(toupper(_getche()) == 'Y')
				{
			
				printf("\nblock is locked\n");
	
				access_rom(SETUP, 0, 0x600060L, IP); // Clear block lock bit command
				access_rom(WRITE, 0, 0x600060L, IP);
				access_rom(HOLD, 0, 0x600060L, IP);

				access_rom(SETUP, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP); // Confirm
				access_rom(WRITE, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP);
				access_rom(HOLD, lj, 0xd000d0L, IP);

				time(&start);
				printf("Unlocking block %3d   \r",block_number++);
				while(access_rom(RS, 0, 0, RP) != 0x800080L)	// Loop until successful status return
					{
					access_rom(READ, 0, 0, RP);
					time(&now);
					if(difftime(now,start) > max_erase_time + 1)	// Check for status timeout
						error_out("\nError, Clear lock timed out");
					}
				}
			else
				error_out("\nUnable to program Write Locked Flash Memory Block");
			}
		}
}




/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//                          END OF FILE                                        //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


--------------D58531E95C99AE4A015A8DD3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
 name="sa1110jtag.h"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="sa1110jtag.h"

//JFLASH V1.0
#define SA1110_CHAIN_LENGTH 292

#define	ROM_SEL_IN	0
#define	nRESET_OUT_OUT	1
#define	nRESET_IN	2
#define	TXD_3_IN	3
#define	TXD_3_OUT	4
#define	TXD_3_EN	5
#define	RXD_3_IN	6
#define	RXD_3_OUT	7
#define	RXD_3_EN	8
#define	TXD_2_IN	9
#define	TXD_2_OUT	10
#define	TXD_2_EN	11
#define	RXD_2_IN	12
#define	RXD_2_OUT	13
#define	RXD_2_EN	14
#define	TXD_1_IN	15
#define	TXD_1_OUT	16
#define	TXD_1_EN	17
#define	RXD_1_IN	18
#define	RXD_1_OUT	19
#define	RXD_1_EN	20
#define	UDCp_IN	21
#define	UDCp_OUT	22
#define	UDCp_EN	23
#define	UDCmUDCp_IN	24
#define	UDCm_IN	25
#define	UDCm_OUT	26
#define	UDCm_EN	27
#define	A0_OUT	28
#define	A1_OUT	29
#define	A2_OUT	30
#define	A3_OUT	31
#define	A4_OUT	32
#define	A5_OUT	33
#define	A6_OUT	34
#define	A7_OUT	35
#define	A8_OUT	36
#define	A9_OUT	37
#define	A10_OUT	38
#define	A11_OUT	39
#define	A12_OUT	40
#define	A13_OUT	41
#define	A14_OUT	42
#define	A15_OUT	43
#define	A16_OUT	44
#define	A17_OUT	45
#define	A18_OUT	46
#define	A19_OUT	47
#define	A20_OUT	48
#define	A21_OUT	49
#define	A22_OUT	50
#define	A23_OUT	51
#define	A24_OUT	52
#define	A25_OUT	53
#define	nCS0_OUT	54
#define	nCS1_OUT	55
#define	nCS2_OUT	56
#define	nCS3_OUT	57
#define	nCS4_OUT	58
#define	nCS5_OUT	59
#define	RDY_IN	60
#define	RD_nWR_OUT	61
#define	nCAS0_OUT	62
#define	nCAS1_OUT	63
#define	nCAS2_OUT	64
#define	nCAS3_OUT	65
#define	nRAS0_OUT	66
#define	nRAS1_OUT	67
#define	nRAS2_OUT	68
#define	nRAS3_OUT	69
#define	nSDCAS_OUT	70
#define	nSDRAS_OUT	71
#define	nOE_OUT	72
#define	nWE_OUT	73
#define	multiEN_EN	74
#define	nPCE1_OUT	75
#define	nPCE2_OUT	76
#define	nPREG_OUT	77
#define	nPWAIT_IN	78
#define	nIOIS16_IN	79
#define	PSKTSEL_OUT	80
#define	nPIOW_OUT	81
#define	nPIOR_OUT	82
#define	nPWE_OUT	83
#define	nPOE_OUT	84
#define	L_FCLK_IN	85
#define	L_FCLK_OUT	86
#define	L_FCLK_EN	87
#define	L_LCLK_IN	88
#define	L_LCLK_OUT	89
#define	L_LCLK_EN	90
#define	L_DD7_IN	91
#define	L_DD7_OUT	92
#define	L_DD7_EN	93
#define	L_DD6_IN	94
#define	L_DD6_OUT	95
#define	L_DD6_EN	96
#define	L_DD5_IN	97
#define	L_DD5_OUT	98
#define	L_DD5_EN	99
#define	L_DD4_IN	100
#define	L_DD4_OUT	101
#define	L_DD4_EN	102
#define	L_DD3_IN	103
#define	L_DD3_OUT	104
#define	L_DD3_EN	105
#define	L_DD2_IN	106
#define	L_DD2_OUT	107
#define	L_DD2_EN	108
#define	L_DD1_IN	109
#define	L_DD1_OUT	110
#define	L_DD1_EN	111
#define	L_DD0_IN	112
#define	L_DD0_OUT	113
#define	L_DD0_EN	114
#define	L_PCLK_IN	115
#define	L_PCLK_OUT	116
#define	L_PCLK_EN	117
#define	L_BIAS_IN	118
#define	L_BIAS_OUT	119
#define	L_BIAS_EN	120
#define	GP0_IN	121
#define	GP0_OUT	122
#define	GP0_EN	123
#define	GP1_IN	124
#define	GP1_OUT	125
#define	GP1_EN	126
#define	GP2_IN	127
#define	GP2_OUT	128
#define	GP2_EN	129
#define	GP3_IN	130
#define	GP3_OUT	131
#define	GP3_EN	132
#define	GP4_IN	133
#define	GP4_OUT	134
#define	GP4_EN	135
#define	GP5_IN	136
#define	GP5_OUT	137
#define	GP5_EN	138
#define	GP6_IN	139
#define	GP6_OUT	140
#define	GP6_EN	141
#define	GP7_IN	142
#define	GP7_OUT	143
#define	GP7_EN	144
#define	GP8_IN	145
#define	GP8_OUT	146
#define	GP8_EN	147
#define	GP9_IN	148
#define	GP9_OUT	149
#define	GP9_EN	150
#define	GP10_IN	151
#define	GP10_OUT	152
#define	GP10_EN	153
#define	GP11_IN	154
#define	GP11_OUT	155
#define	GP11_EN	156
#define	GP12_IN	157
#define	GP12_OUT	158
#define	GP12_EN	159
#define	GP13_IN	160
#define	GP13_OUT	161
#define	GP13_EN	162
#define	GP14_IN	163
#define	GP14_OUT	164
#define	GP14_EN	165
#define	GP15_IN	166
#define	GP15_OUT	167
#define	GP15_EN	168
#define	GP16_IN	169
#define	GP16_OUT	170
#define	GP16_EN	171
#define	GP17_IN	172
#define	GP17_OUT	173
#define	GP17_EN	174
#define	GP18_IN	175
#define	GP18_OUT	176
#define	GP18_EN	177
#define	GP19_IN	178
#define	GP19_OUT	179
#define	GP19_EN	180
#define	GP20_IN	181
#define	GP20_OUT	182
#define	GP20_EN	183
#define	GP21_IN	184
#define	GP21_OUT	185
#define	GP21_EN	186
#define	GP22_IN	187
#define	GP22_OUT	188
#define	GP22_EN	189
#define	GP23_IN	190
#define	GP23_OUT	191
#define	GP23_EN	192
#define	GP24_IN	193
#define	GP24_OUT	194
#define	GP24_EN	195
#define	GP25_IN	196
#define	GP25_OUT	197
#define	GP25_EN	198
#define	GP26_IN	199
#define	GP26_OUT	200
#define	GP26_EN	201
#define	GP27_IN	202
#define	GP27_OUT	203
#define	GP27_EN	204
#define	SMROM_EN_IN	205
#define	SDCKE0_OUT	206
#define	SDCLK0_OUT	207
#define	SDCLK1_OUT	208
#define	SDCLK1_EN	209
#define	SDCKE1_OUT	210
#define	SDCLK2_OUT	211
#define	D31_0_EN	212
#define	D31_IN	213
#define	D31_OUT	214
#define	D23_IN	215
#define	D23_OUT	216
#define	D15_IN	217
#define	D15_OUT	218
#define	D7_IN	219
#define	D7_OUT	220
#define	D30_IN	221
#define	D30_OUT	222
#define	D22_IN	223
#define	D22_OUT	224
#define	D14_IN	225
#define	D14_OUT	226
#define	D6_IN	227
#define	D6_OUT	228
#define	D29_IN	229
#define	D29_OUT	230
#define	D21_IN	231
#define	D21_OUT	232
#define	D13_IN	233
#define	D13_OUT	234
#define	D5_IN	235
#define	D5_OUT	236
#define	D28_IN	237
#define	D28_OUT	238
#define	D20_IN	239
#define	D20_OUT	240
#define	D12_IN	241
#define	D12_OUT	242
#define	D4_IN	243
#define	D4_OUT	244
#define	D27_IN	245
#define	D27_OUT	246
#define	D19_IN	247
#define	D19_OUT	248
#define	D11_IN	249
#define	D11_OUT	250
#define	D3_IN	251
#define	D3_OUT	252
#define	D26_IN	253
#define	D26_OUT	254
#define	D18_IN	255
#define	D18_OUT	256
#define	D10_IN	257
#define	D10_OUT	258
#define	D2_IN	259
#define	D2_OUT	260
#define	D25_IN	261
#define	D25_OUT	262
#define	D17_IN	263
#define	D17_OUT	264
#define	D9_IN	265
#define	D9_OUT	266
#define	D1_IN	267
#define	D1_OUT	268
#define	D24_IN	269
#define	D24_OUT	270
#define	D16_IN	271
#define	D16_OUT	272
#define	D8_IN	273
#define	D8_OUT	274
#define	D0_IN	275
#define	D0_OUT	276
#define	TXD_C_IN	277
#define	TXD_C_OUT	278
#define	TXD_C_EN	279
#define	RXD_C_IN	280
#define	RXD_C_OUT	281
#define	RXD_C_EN	282
#define	SCLK_C_IN	283
#define	SCLK_C_OUT	284
#define	SCLK_C_EN	285
#define	SFRM_C_IN	286
#define	SFRM_C_OUT	287
#define	SFRM_C_EN	288
#define	PWR_EN_OUT	289
#define	VDD_FAULT_IN	290
#define	BATT_FAULT_IN	291

int pin[] = {
1,	//	ROM_SEL_IN
1,	//	nRESET_OUT_OUT
1,	//	nRESET_IN
1,	//	TXD_3_IN
0,	//	TXD_3_OUT
0,	//	TXD_3_EN
1,	//	RXD_3_IN
0,	//	RXD_3_OUT
0,	//	RXD_3_EN
1,	//	TXD_2_IN
0,	//	TXD_2_OUT
0,	//	TXD_2_EN
0,	//	RXD_2_IN
0,	//	RXD_2_OUT
0,	//	RXD_2_EN
1,	//	TXD_1_IN
0,	//	TXD_1_OUT
0,	//	TXD_1_EN
1,	//	RXD_1_IN
0,	//	RXD_1_OUT
0,	//	RXD_1_EN
0,	//	UDCp_IN
0,	//	UDCp_OUT
0,	//	UDCp_EN
1,	//	UDCmUDCp_IN
0,	//	UDCm_IN
0,	//	UDCm_OUT
0,	//	UDCm_EN
0,	//	A0_OUT
0,	//	A1_OUT
1,	//	A2_OUT
0,	//	A3_OUT
0,	//	A4_OUT
0,	//	A5_OUT
0,	//	A6_OUT
0,	//	A7_OUT
0,	//	A8_OUT
0,	//	A9_OUT
0,	//	A10_OUT
0,	//	A11_OUT
0,	//	A12_OUT
0,	//	A13_OUT
0,	//	A14_OUT
0,	//	A15_OUT
0,	//	A16_OUT
0,	//	A17_OUT
0,	//	A18_OUT
0,	//	A19_OUT
0,	//	A20_OUT
0,	//	A21_OUT
0,	//	A22_OUT
0,	//	A23_OUT
0,	//	A24_OUT
0,	//	A25_OUT
1,	//	nCS0_OUT
1,	//	nCS1_OUT
1,	//	nCS2_OUT
1,	//	nCS3_OUT
1,	//	nCS4_OUT
1,	//	nCS5_OUT
1,	//	RDY_IN
0,	//	RD_nWR_OUT
1,	//	nCAS0_OUT
1,	//	nCAS1_OUT
1,	//	nCAS2_OUT
1,	//	nCAS3_OUT
1,	//	nRAS0_OUT
0,	//	nRAS1_OUT
0,	//	nRAS2_OUT
0,	//	nRAS3_OUT
0,	//	nSDCAS_OUT
0,	//	nSDRAS_OUT
0,	//	nOE_OUT
1,	//	nWE_OUT
0,	//	multiEN_EN
1,	//	nPCE1_OUT
1,	//	nPCE2_OUT
0,	//	nPREG_OUT
1,	//	nPWAIT_IN
1,	//	nIOIS16_IN
0,	//	PSKTSEL_OUT
0,	//	nPIOW_OUT
0,	//	nPIOR_OUT
0,	//	nPWE_OUT
0,	//	nPOE_OUT
1,	//	L_FCLK_IN
0,	//	L_FCLK_OUT
0,	//	L_FCLK_EN
1,	//	L_LCLK_IN
0,	//	L_LCLK_OUT
0,	//	L_LCLK_EN
1,	//	L_DD7_IN
0,	//	L_DD7_OUT
0,	//	L_DD7_EN
1,	//	L_DD6_IN
0,	//	L_DD6_OUT
0,	//	L_DD6_EN
1,	//	L_DD5_IN
0,	//	L_DD5_OUT
0,	//	L_DD5_EN
1,	//	L_DD4_IN
0,	//	L_DD4_OUT
0,	//	L_DD4_EN
1,	//	L_DD3_IN
0,	//	L_DD3_OUT
0,	//	L_DD3_EN
1,	//	L_DD2_IN
0,	//	L_DD2_OUT
0,	//	L_DD2_EN
1,	//	L_DD1_IN
0,	//	L_DD1_OUT
0,	//	L_DD1_EN
1,	//	L_DD0_IN
0,	//	L_DD0_OUT
0,	//	L_DD0_EN
1,	//	L_PCLK_IN
0,	//	L_PCLK_OUT
0,	//	L_PCLK_EN
1,	//	L_BIAS_IN
0,	//	L_BIAS_OUT
0,	//	L_BIAS_EN
0,	//	GP0_IN
0,	//	GP0_OUT
0,	//	GP0_EN
1,	//	GP1_IN
0,	//	GP1_OUT
0,	//	GP1_EN
1,	//	GP2_IN
0,	//	GP2_OUT
0,	//	GP2_EN
1,	//	GP3_IN
0,	//	GP3_OUT
0,	//	GP3_EN
1,	//	GP4_IN
0,	//	GP4_OUT
0,	//	GP4_EN
1,	//	GP5_IN
0,	//	GP5_OUT
0,	//	GP5_EN
1,	//	GP6_IN
0,	//	GP6_OUT
0,	//	GP6_EN
1,	//	GP7_IN
0,	//	GP7_OUT
0,	//	GP7_EN
1,	//	GP8_IN
0,	//	GP8_OUT
0,	//	GP8_EN
1,	//	GP9_IN
0,	//	GP9_OUT
0,	//	GP9_EN
1,	//	GP10_IN
0,	//	GP10_OUT
0,	//	GP10_EN
0,	//	GP11_IN
0,	//	GP11_OUT
0,	//	GP11_EN
1,	//	GP12_IN
0,	//	GP12_OUT
0,	//	GP12_EN
1,	//	GP13_IN
0,	//	GP13_OUT
0,	//	GP13_EN
1,	//	GP14_IN
0,	//	GP14_OUT
0,	//	GP14_EN
1,	//	GP15_IN
0,	//	GP15_OUT
0,	//	GP15_EN
1,	//	GP16_IN
0,	//	GP16_OUT
0,	//	GP16_EN
0,	//	GP17_IN
0,	//	GP17_OUT
1,	//	GP17_EN
1,	//	GP18_IN
0,	//	GP18_OUT
0,	//	GP18_EN
0,	//	GP19_IN
0,	//	GP19_OUT
0,	//	GP19_EN
1,	//	GP20_IN
0,	//	GP20_OUT
0,	//	GP20_EN
0,	//	GP21_IN
0,	//	GP21_OUT
0,	//	GP21_EN
1,	//	GP22_IN
0,	//	GP22_OUT
0,	//	GP22_EN
0,	//	GP23_IN
0,	//	GP23_OUT
0,	//	GP23_EN
1,	//	GP24_IN
0,	//	GP24_OUT
0,	//	GP24_EN
1,	//	GP25_IN
0,	//	GP25_OUT
0,	//	GP25_EN
1,	//	GP26_IN
0,	//	GP26_OUT
0,	//	GP26_EN
1,	//	GP27_IN
0,	//	GP27_OUT
0,	//	GP27_EN
0,	//	SMROM_EN_IN
0,	//	SDCKE0_OUT
0,	//	SDCLK0_OUT
0,	//	SDCLK1_OUT
1,	//	SDCLK1_EN
1,	//	SDCKE1_OUT
0,	//	SDCLK2_OUT
1,	//	D31_0_EN
0,	//	D31_IN
0,	//	D31_OUT
0,	//	D23_IN
0,	//	D23_OUT
0,	//	D15_IN
0,	//	D15_OUT
0,	//	D7_IN
0,	//	D7_OUT
0,	//	D30_IN
0,	//	D30_OUT
0,	//	D22_IN
0,	//	D22_OUT
0,	//	D14_IN
0,	//	D14_OUT
0,	//	D6_IN
0,	//	D6_OUT
0,	//	D29_IN
0,	//	D29_OUT
0,	//	D21_IN
0,	//	D21_OUT
0,	//	D13_IN
0,	//	D13_OUT
0,	//	D5_IN
0,	//	D5_OUT
0,	//	D28_IN
0,	//	D28_OUT
0,	//	D20_IN
0,	//	D20_OUT
0,	//	D12_IN
0,	//	D12_OUT
0,	//	D4_IN
0,	//	D4_OUT
0,	//	D27_OUT
0,	//	D27_IN
0,	//	D19_IN
0,	//	D19_OUT
0,	//	D11_IN
0,	//	D11_OUT
0,	//	D3_IN
0,	//	D3_OUT
0,	//	D26_IN
0,	//	D26_OUT
0,	//	D18_IN
0,	//	D18_OUT
0,	//	D10_IN
0,	//	D10_OUT
0,	//	D2_IN
0,	//	D2_OUT
0,	//	D25_IN
0,	//	D25_OUT
0,	//	D17_IN
0,	//	D17_OUT
0,	//	D9_IN
0,	//	D9_OUT
0,	//	D1_IN
0,	//	D1_OUT
0,	//	D24_IN
0,	//	D24_OUT
0,	//	D16_IN
1,	//	D16_OUT
0,	//	D8_IN
0,	//	D8_OUT
0,	//	D0_IN
1,	//	D0_OUT
1,	//	TXD_C_IN
0,	//	TXD_C_OUT
0,	//	TXD_C_EN
1,	//	RXD_C_IN
0,	//	RXD_C_OUT
0,	//	RXD_C_EN
1,	//	SCLK_C_IN
0,	//	SCLK_C_OUT
0,	//	SCLK_C_EN
1,	//	SFRM_C_IN
0,	//	SFRM_C_OUT
0,	//	SFRM_C_EN
1,	//	PWR_EN_OUT
0,	//	VDD_FAULT_IN
0};		//	BATT_FAULT_IN

//int dat_order[] = {	 D8_OUT, D9_OUT,D10_OUT,D11_OUT,D12_OUT,D13_OUT,D14_OUT,D15_OUT,
//					D16_OUT,D17_OUT,D18_OUT,D19_OUT,D20_OUT,D21_OUT,D22_OUT,D23_OUT,
//					D24_OUT,D25_OUT,D26_OUT,D27_OUT,D28_OUT,D29_OUT,D30_OUT,D31_OUT,
//					 D1_OUT, D2_OUT, D3_OUT, D4_OUT, D5_OUT, D6_OUT, D7_OUT,D31_0_EN};
int dat_order[] = {	 
					 D0_OUT, D1_OUT, D2_OUT, D3_OUT, D4_OUT, D5_OUT, D6_OUT, D7_OUT,
					 D8_OUT, D9_OUT,D10_OUT,D11_OUT,D12_OUT,D13_OUT,D14_OUT,D15_OUT,
					D16_OUT,D17_OUT,D18_OUT,D19_OUT,D20_OUT,D21_OUT,D22_OUT,D23_OUT,
					D24_OUT,D25_OUT,D26_OUT,D27_OUT,D28_OUT,D29_OUT,D30_OUT,D31_OUT};
/*
#define	D31_OUT	214
#define	D23_OUT	216
#define	D15_OUT	218
#define	D7_OUT	220
#define	D30_OUT	222
#define	D22_OUT	224
#define	D14_OUT	226
#define	D6_OUT	228
#define	D29_OUT	230
#define	D21_OUT	232
#define	D13_OUT	234
#define	D5_OUT	236
#define	D28_OUT	238
#define	D20_OUT	240
#define	D12_OUT	242
#define	D4_OUT	244
#define	D27_OUT	246
#define	D19_OUT	248
#define	D11_OUT	250
#define	D3_OUT	252
#define	D26_OUT	254
#define	D18_OUT	256
#define	D10_OUT	258
#define	D2_OUT	260
#define	D25_OUT	262
#define	D17_OUT	264
#define	D9_OUT	266
#define	D1_OUT	268
#define	D24_OUT	270
#define	D16_OUT	272
#define	D8_OUT	274
#define	D0_OUT	276
*/

--------------D58531E95C99AE4A015A8DD3--

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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Downloading kernel
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:45:48 
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I've just got my LART board from Aleph One. It powers up OK and BLOB 
communicates with my PC.

I'm having problems downloading the following pre-compiled kernel using 
Windoze Explorer:

http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/zImage-linux-2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np1-lart

It isn't recognised as a ZIPped file, and won't download. I can save it as a 
text file, but that isn't much use.

Leon

--
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Feb 26 17:22:05 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:19:55 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Leon Heller 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Downloading kernel
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On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:45:48PM +0000, Leon Heller wrote:
> I'm having problems downloading the following pre-compiled kernel using 
> Windoze Explorer:
> 
> http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/zImage-linux-2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np1-lart
> 
> It isn't recognised as a ZIPped file, and won't download. I can save it as a 
> text file, but that isn't much use.

It isn't a zip file, it's a zImage. Use a proper download tool to get
the file, like Netscape, lynx, or wget.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Feb 26 19:11:57 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:07:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Downloading kernel
To: LART list 
In-Reply-To: 
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On Mon 26 Feb, Leon Heller wrote:

> I'm having problems downloading the following pre-compiled kernel using 
> Windoze Explorer:
> 
> http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/zImage-linux-2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np1-lart

I haven't been able to get this kernel to boot anyway. And I also found that
I can't get any kernel to boot using blob 1.0.8-pre2. Hopefully someone will
get a chance to find out why not all combos work at some point but for now
this is 'bits that work for me' list:

http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/indexdev.html
 
HTH

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  1 16:26:36 2001
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From: Wookey 
Subject: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
To: LART list 
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Malte Wendel recently got his LART, and as the spec says 4-14 Volts, checked
to see if it would work at 12V. It stopped working as it went above 10V and
now his LT1266 just gets hot...

Perusing the Lt1266 datasheet http://www.linear-tech.com/pdf/1266fa.pdf he
found:

> it short words it says: you can not use higher input voltage than 10volts
> (what is exactly the voltage where it braked), because it is doubled to be
> high enough for the MOSFETs, and the ltc1266 is only usable up to 20v input
> voltageon pin 2.
> 
> perhaps you should recheck this, and if you can confirm it send a mail to
> you customers, that they should not use mor then 9v input voltage, to avoid
> more problems like mine.... but at least so i can be pretty sure, that it
> is really the ltc1266.
> 
> 
> page12, right column
> --------------------------
> Driving N-Channel Topside MOSFETs
> Driving an N-channel topside MOSFET (PINV, Pin 3, tied to
> PWR VIN ) is a little trickier than driving a P-channel since
> the gate voltage must be positive with respect to the
> source to turn it on, which means that the gate voltage
> must be higher than VIN . This requires either a second
> supply at least VGS(ON) above VIN or a bootstrapping circuit
> to boost the VIN to the proper level. The easiest method is
> using a higher supply (see Figure 14) but if one is not
> available, the bootstrap method can be used at the ex-pense
> of an additional diode (see Figure 1). The bootstrap
> works by charging the bootstrap capacitor to VIN during
> the off-time. During the on-time, the bottom plate of the
> capacitor is pulled up to VIN so that the voltage at Pin 2 is
> now twice VIN (plus any ringing on the switch node).
> 
> Since the maximum allowable voltage at Pin 2 is 20V, the
> Figure 1 bootstrap circuit limits VIN to less than 10V. A
> higher VIN can be achieved if the bootstrap capacitor is
> charged to a voltage less than VIN , in which case
> VIN(MAX)Ê= 20 - VCAP .
> ------------------------

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks like you
ought to run your LARTs at <10V in fact, unless you re-arrange the PSU to
avoid the voltage doubling. Any of you hardware types care to confirm or deny
that the PSU on a rev4 LART is running in the above configuration?

We'll find out which bit broke shortly...

I though I should send this mail sooner rather than later.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  1 17:58:59 2001
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: "Wookey" , "LART list" 
Subject: RE: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:00:28 +0100
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He's perfectly right.

With 10Vin the voltage will rise to 20V on pin 2 of the LTC1266. This is
what the part is rated for. The bottom MOSFET gate voltage also becomes 20V
which violates it's Vgs-max of 12V. MOSFET's are actually quite rugged so
most likely it's the LTC1266 that have died.

A possible fix is to disconnect the anodes of D2 and D5 from Vin and supply
them with 3V to 5V. This will raise the maximum Vin to (20V - 3V) = 17V.
This auxilliary voltage can be anything from MOSFET Vgs-min(2.7V) + Schottky
Vf(0.3V) to MOSFET Vgs-max(12V). The Vin-max will change accordingly. The DC
consumption from the 3Vaux will be approximately (2 * f * 2* Qg) or worst
case: (2 * 400kHz * 2 * 20nC) = 32mA. It will draw high current peaks each
time the switch-node goes low so the anodes need to be well decoupled. A
resistor-zener-capacitor shunt regulator should do the job.

Another fix is to redesign the circuit to use a P-channel MOSFET as the
topside switch. That way pin 2 on the LTC1266 will be connected to Vin and
the boot-strap circuit can be omitted.

Let me know if I got too technical >:)


Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
> Behalf Of Wookey
> Sent: 01 March, 2001 16:15
> To: LART list
> Subject: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
>
>
> Malte Wendel recently got his LART, and as the spec says 4-14
> Volts, checked
> to see if it would work at 12V. It stopped working as it went
> above 10V and
> now his LT1266 just gets hot...
>
> Perusing the Lt1266 datasheet http://www.linear-tech.com/pdf/1266fa.pdf he
> found:
>
> > it short words it says: you can not use higher input voltage
> than 10volts
> > (what is exactly the voltage where it braked), because it is
> doubled to be
> > high enough for the MOSFETs, and the ltc1266 is only usable up
> to 20v input
> > voltageon pin 2.
> >
> > perhaps you should recheck this, and if you can confirm it send
> a mail to
> > you customers, that they should not use mor then 9v input
> voltage, to avoid
> > more problems like mine.... but at least so i can be pretty
> sure, that it
> > is really the ltc1266.
> >
> >
> > page12, right column
> > --------------------------
> > Driving N-Channel Topside MOSFETs
> > Driving an N-channel topside MOSFET (PINV, Pin 3, tied to
> > PWR VIN ) is a little trickier than driving a P-channel since
> > the gate voltage must be positive with respect to the
> > source to turn it on, which means that the gate voltage
> > must be higher than VIN . This requires either a second
> > supply at least VGS(ON) above VIN or a bootstrapping circuit
> > to boost the VIN to the proper level. The easiest method is
> > using a higher supply (see Figure 14) but if one is not
> > available, the bootstrap method can be used at the ex-pense
> > of an additional diode (see Figure 1). The bootstrap
> > works by charging the bootstrap capacitor to VIN during
> > the off-time. During the on-time, the bottom plate of the
> > capacitor is pulled up to VIN so that the voltage at Pin 2 is
> > now twice VIN (plus any ringing on the switch node).
> >
> > Since the maximum allowable voltage at Pin 2 is 20V, the
> > Figure 1 bootstrap circuit limits VIN to less than 10V. A
> > higher VIN can be achieved if the bootstrap capacitor is
> > charged to a voltage less than VIN , in which case
> > VIN(MAX)Ê= 20 - VCAP .
> > ------------------------
>
> I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks like you
> ought to run your LARTs at <10V in fact, unless you re-arrange the PSU to
> avoid the voltage doubling. Any of you hardware types care to
> confirm or deny
> that the PSU on a rev4 LART is running in the above configuration?
>
> We'll find out which bit broke shortly...
>
> I though I should send this mail sooner rather than later.
>
> Wookey
> --
> Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
> work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  1 18:26:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:16:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Wookey 
Subject: RE: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
To: Nicolai Mahncke 
cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <000401c0a271$1e4f6de0$351a10ac@reipur.com>
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On Thu 01 Mar, Nicolai Mahncke wrote:
> He's perfectly right. 
[that LART rev4 input voltage must be <10V]
> 
> With 10Vin the voltage will rise to 20V on pin 2 of the LTC1266. This is
> what the part is rated for. The bottom MOSFET gate voltage also becomes 20V
> which violates it's Vgs-max of 12V. MOSFET's are actually quite rugged so
> most likely it's the LTC1266 that have died.
> 
> A possible fix is to disconnect the anodes of D2 and D5 from Vin and supply
> them with 3V to 5V. This will raise the maximum Vin to (20V - 3V) = 17V.
> This auxilliary voltage can be anything from MOSFET Vgs-min(2.7V) +
> Schottky Vf(0.3V) to MOSFET Vgs-max(12V). The Vin-max will change
> accordingly. The DC consumption from the 3Vaux will be approximately (2 * f
> * 2* Qg) or worst case: (2 * 400kHz * 2 * 20nC) = 32mA. It will draw high
> current peaks each time the switch-node goes low so the anodes need to be
> well decoupled. A resistor-zener-capacitor shunt regulator should do the
> job.
> 
> Another fix is to redesign the circuit to use a P-channel MOSFET as the
> topside switch. That way pin 2 on the LTC1266 will be connected to Vin and
> the boot-strap circuit can be omitted.
> 
> Let me know if I got too technical >:)

No, I can follow that. Thanx. Anyone care to do an actual circuit
diagram/description of the modifications needed to run a lart off 10-16V. I
think this would be a useful thing to include in the docs/on the website.

Essentially the above info plus a diagram and component values for the
'resistor-zener-capacitor shunt' should suffice. I could probably work it out
from the above but I get the strong impression that Nicolai would do a better
job of it :-)

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  1 19:03:41 2001
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:01:59 +0100
To: Wookey 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
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At 15:14 +0000 01-03-2001, Wookey wrote:
>I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks like you
>ought to run your LARTs at <10V in fact, unless you re-arrange the PSU to
>avoid the voltage doubling.

That is the smart choice yes. We chose the configuration because it 
yields the highest PS efficiency (due to N-FETs usually having a 
lower on-resistance than P-FETs). So staying < 10V is a good idea.

JDB
[who has rev4 LARTs running at 12v, but obviously your mileage may vary]
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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Patrick Pelgrims
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Mar  5 23:17:21 2001
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From: Alexander Pita 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Webcam interface?
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Does anyone know what the simplest way to interface an inexpensive video
camera device (such as a webcam) with the LART would be?
I notice that the main board doesn't seem to have a parallel port, and
even the KSB is USB-client only.

-Alex


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Mar  6 00:48:50 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:45:30 +0100
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At 17:08 -0500 05-03-2001, Alexander Pita wrote:
>Does anyone know what the simplest way to interface an inexpensive video
>camera device (such as a webcam) with the LART would be?
>I notice that the main board doesn't seem to have a parallel port,

The LCD interface can be (ab)used as parallel port, if you don't require DMA.

>  and
>even the KSB is USB-client only.

One of the things on my TODO-list is interfacing a CMOS image sensor 
(640x480 @ 30fps) to the LART.

JDB.
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Mar  6 16:29:39 2001
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From: "Nicolai Mahncke" 
To: "Wookey" 
Cc: "LART list" 
Subject: RE: LARt input voltage - keep it below 10V
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:26:56 +0100
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[snip my own technobabble]
> No, I can follow that. Thanx. Anyone care to do an actual circuit
> diagram/description of the modifications needed to run a lart off
> 10-16V. I
> think this would be a useful thing to include in the docs/on the website.
>
> Essentially the above info plus a diagram and component values for the
> 'resistor-zener-capacitor shunt' should suffice. I could probably
> work it out
> from the above but I get the strong impression that Nicolai would
> do a better
> job of it :-)

I have now done some actual measurements but have no time to do a schematic
or seek out the parts as I'm working on a project at work scheduled to be
done in 1/4 of the impossible time :(

Proceed as follows:
Change C50, C51 to at least 20V types. AVX recommends they be rated at
double working voltage especially with low source impedances like NiCads and
hot plugged supplies. Believe me when I say that you will be punished for
not obeying this. When  the 16V rated fails it will char an inch wide area
of the board halfway through. In my company we have banned tantalums
everywhere we have low impedance fast or uncontrolled rise times. Ceramic
and electrolytes have improved sufficient to be used instead.

Change T1, T2 to 30V types with 20Vgs-max and reasonable (>1.5Amp) Ids @
2.7V gate drive.

Lift the anode of D5 and connect it to +3v3 on C57.

Make a small low drop linear 3.0V regulator with at least 1µF ceramic/10µF
tantalum output capacitance the more the better. Preferably one with good
transient response. It need to be rated at 50mA or better at 20Vin. Farnell
have some from National Semi.

Connect the regulator input to Vin and the output to the lifted anode of D2.

Connect the cathode of a second ZHCS750 to D2's cathode. Connect its anode
to +3v3 on C57. A dual schottky can be used but must be rated for 30V and
>200mA peak.

What this does:
The Vcore regulator will now use 3v3 as its gate drive voltage. This limits
Vin to 16.7Vmax. The added advantage of this is that gate drive dissipation
is fixed rather than increasing with Vin. Depending on input voltage you
might gain from 0% to 10% efficiency improvement over a span from 4V to 16V.

The 3v3 regulator will start up with 3.0V gate drive from the linear
regulator. As the 3v3 output rises past 3.0V the gate drive will come from
its own output due to the OR'ing of the two diodes. This fixes 3v3 gate
drive dissipation as with Vcore. The zener-resistor-cap solution proved to
be too unstable and inefficient with input voltage variations. Ideally the
linear regulator will only draw its own quiscent current after startup.

The above has been tested on an actual LART rev.4 board without SA1100,
Flash, DRAM (still can't find them) but with a 0.5Amp resistive load on 3v3.
The 3.0V came from a lab supply. The Vcore fix is not tested but (should be)
guaranteed by design.

If you get trouble with noise on 3v3 insert a 10Ohm resistor in series with
each of the anodes of D2, D5 AND decouple the anodes to ground with at least
1µF ceramic/10µF tantalum. Again the more µF the better.

Standard disclaimer: YMMV, I take no responsibility at all and don't imply
suitability for anything ;)


Best regards

Nicolai Mahncke
mailto:nicolai@reipur.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  8 10:27:21 2001
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Subject: CD/DVD copier
From: William Staniewicz 
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:23:16 -0500
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It's been a little quiet here lately, so I thought I would
throw this idea out and see whether it floats or sinks.

Would it be possible to build a small, portable LART device
that could copy CD's and DVD's? In one slot you put the
media to ne copied, in the other slot the blank. There
would be a screen to edit the specific files to copy also.
You push a few buttons and "presto"! Would anyone buy it?

Comments?

		-Bill
		   Amsterdam, NL


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  8 11:25:48 2001
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:21:56 +0100
From: Bram Stolk 
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Subject: Re: CD/DVD copier
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William Staniewicz wrote:
> 
> It's been a little quiet here lately, so I thought I would
> throw this idea out and see whether it floats or sinks.

blub, blub, blub :-)

I think you could do this with a lart+ksb, but you will probably
be unable to beat the price that these guys want for their 
copier-device:

http://www.corpsys.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=DI7503DB&variation=&aitem=8&mitem=17

For me, the lart looks like an excellent platform for autonomous
robotics. A really advanced robot, that you can logon to, and
have it compile its own kernel :-) Surely, there are not many robots
capable of doing this. 

   Bram
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  8 13:38:26 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:32:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Burning kernel into flash
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Hi

I have tried to burn a kernel into flash by doing:

Making the kernel
Put the kernel (not uuencoded) into a ramdisk
Download the kernel (uuencoded) from blob
Download the ramdisk (uuencoded) from blob
Boot the LART
Logged in
mknod /dev/flash1 b 60 1
dd if=zImage of=/dev/flash1

This result in the following errors:

--------------------------------------------------
[root@Linux /kernel]$mknod /dev/flash1 b 60 1

[root@Linux /kernel]$dd if=zImage of=/dev/flash1
attempt to access beyond end of device
01:00: rw=0, want=1066368786, limit=8192
attempt to access beyond end of device
01:00: rw=0, want=1066368786, limit=8192
attempt to access beyond end of device

207 times 01:00: rw=0, want=1066368786, limit=8192  deleted
          attempt to access beyond end of device

01:00: rw=0, want=1066368786, limit=8192
flash_mem: flash seems dead!
end_request: I/O error, dev 3c:02 (flash), sector 256
flash_mem: flash seems dead!
end_request: I/O error, dev 3c:02 (flash), sector 512
flash_mem: flash seems dead!
end_request: I/O error, dev 3c:02 (flash), sector 768
flash_mem: flash seems dead!
954+1 records in
954+1 records out
[root@Linux /kernel]$
---------------------------------------------------------

What am I doing wrong??

The Linux is version 2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np1

I have made the logs available at:
dmesg: http://www.control.auc.dk/~martin/dmesg.txt
messages: http://www.control.auc.dk/~martin/messages.txt


Please help!!

Best regards
Martin


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  8 14:14:47 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:58:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry Callahan 
Reply-To: Barry Callahan 
Subject: Re: CD/DVD copier
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It's called a CD Duplicator.  You can find 'em on www.pricewatch.com 
www.dirtcheapdrives.com etc....

Most Duplicators I've seen have an interface to attach to an external computer 
so you can be selective about which files get copied.

DVD recorders (as opposed to DVD-RAM which uses a different type of media)
are still very expensive. The only one I've been able to find is the following 
listing on dirtcheapdrives:

Pioneer SCSI-2 External DVD Recordable Drive DVR-S201  $ 3899.00 

>Would it be possible to build a small, portable LART device
>that could copy CD's and DVD's? In one slot you put the
>media to ne copied, in the other slot the blank. There
>would be a screen to edit the specific files to copy also.
>You push a few buttons and "presto"! Would anyone buy it?

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar  8 18:39:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:36:47 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
Message-ID: <20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 01:32:33PM +0100, Martin Jansen Schmidt wrote:
> I have tried to burn a kernel into flash by doing:
> 
> Making the kernel
> Put the kernel (not uuencoded) into a ramdisk
> Download the kernel (uuencoded) from blob
> Download the ramdisk (uuencoded) from blob
> Boot the LART
> Logged in
> mknod /dev/flash1 b 60 1
> dd if=zImage of=/dev/flash1
> 
> This result in the following errors:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> [root@Linux /kernel]$mknod /dev/flash1 b 60 1
> 
> [root@Linux /kernel]$dd if=zImage of=/dev/flash1

[snip]

> [root@Linux /kernel]$
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> What am I doing wrong??

The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
drivers instead. 

> The Linux is version 2.4.0-test8-rmk5-np1

Hmm. Try to upgrade to linux-2.4.1-rmk1-np2 or newer and use the MTD
drivers. The MTD stuff didn't work last time I tried it. I think there
is something wrong in the data line mapping. See
include/linux/mtd/cfi_endian.h (and don't let Dave's comments scare you
off).


Erik

PS: I am rewriting blob in my spare time. I am currently at a point
    that blob relocates itself to RAM and runs from there, so it should
    now be able to write its own flash.

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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dear all,
  I am new to blob ,I don't  know how to burn it to flash,can anyone help me
?which tool  would I use,and where can I get it ?
  Thank you for your help!
                         Becky.lee
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar  9 03:29:44 2001
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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:29:19 +0100
To: "beckylee [??]" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: how can burn blob to flash?
Cc: "'lart@lart.tudelft.nl'" 
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At 10:02 +0800 09-03-2001, beckylee [??] wrote:
>dear all,
>   I am new to blob ,I don't  know how to burn it to flash,can anyone help me
>?which tool  would I use,and where can I get it ?
>   Thank you for your help!

http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar  9 10:57:58 2001
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From: Alexander Pita 
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Subject: Webcam interface?
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Does anyone know what the simplest way to interface an inexpensive video
camera device (such as a webcam) with the LART would be?
I notice that the main board doesn't seem to have a parallel port, and
even the KSB is USB-client only.

-Alex


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar  9 18:56:22 2001
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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:56:54 +0100
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Hi,

This question isn't really lart-related, but I think that people here
might be able to answer it.
I wonder if there is any documentation on-line etc on the JTAG
interface. What documentation was used when writing the JFlash software
and building the JTAG dongle for the lart?

/Tommy
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Mar 14 13:58:49 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:05:17 +1100
From: Dave Creelman 
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Subject: Anyone in NZ/Australia made a PCB ?
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Hi,

I sent an email earlier to Wayne Jackson asking him about this ?

How are people round this way (Aus/NZ) going ?

I sent the following to Wayne. I haven't got that far yet.



I'm trying to put a LART together and I've contacted the
following :-

I haven't bought any of the parts yet. I'm trying to find
somewhere
(anywhere .. ) in Australia that does six layer PCB
production. There's
a mob in Melbourne I'm trying to get to make some. I'd
rather not get
them made in the US since there is the time lag and the
cost. If you
know of anyone, please let me know.

SA1100 processor from Braemac for about $115
Flash RAM from a company whose name is on my work machine.
EDO RAM shouldn't be a problem.

caps, resistors etc. I'm thinking/hoping should be easy to
source.

If you have any more leads progress than I have made let
me know at
dcreelman@cochlear.com.au. Even if you haven't made any
progress, just
drop me a line so we can maybe keep in touch on LART
issues.

Cheers
Dave



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar 16 12:33:01 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:26:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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Hi

Have any one got a working PPP connection?

If yes, what should be passed as parameters to pppd (both on the host and
the lart)? Do you have to set something special up on the LART (there are
no handshake)?

Best regards
Martin


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar 16 13:17:38 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:11:27 +0100 (MET)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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Hi again

I now found the solutions

On the host:
pppd ttyS0 10.0.0.1:10.0.0.2 57600 mtu 576 passive debug local crtscts 
asyncmap 0 noauth

On the LART:
pppd ttyS1 57600 debug local nocrtscts asyncmap 0 noauth

In the host end the following lines should be connected:
rts-cts and dtr-dsr-dcd

It look like that even you use "nocrtscts" on the host side it expect
the handshake connections.

P.S. This mail is send from the LART using telnet to my host :-)

Best regards
Martin

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Martin Jansen Schmidt wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Have any one got a working PPP connection?
> 
> If yes, what should be passed as parameters to pppd (both on the host and
> the lart)? Do you have to set something special up on the LART (there are
> no handshake)?
> 
> Best regards
> Martin
> 
> 
> 


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar 16 16:46:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:43:37 +0100
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: PPP
Message-ID: <20010316164337.I2337@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 01:11:27PM +0100, Martin Jansen Schmidt wrote:
> I now found the solutions
> 
> On the host:
> pppd ttyS0 10.0.0.1:10.0.0.2 57600 mtu 576 passive debug local crtscts 
> asyncmap 0 noauth

That should be nocrtscts because the LART also doesn't use it.

> On the LART:
> pppd ttyS1 57600 debug local nocrtscts asyncmap 0 noauth
> 
> In the host end the following lines should be connected:
> rts-cts and dtr-dsr-dcd

No need for it as long as you tell PPP to use nocrtscts.

> It look like that even you use "nocrtscts" on the host side it expect
> the handshake connections.

This is what I use:

On the host:
  echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
  pppd /dev/ttyS1 115200 noauth lock proxyarp 192.168.1.1:192.168.1.2 nocrtscts local bsdcomp 15,15

On the LART:
  pppd /dev/ttyS1 115200 noauth lock defaultroute 192.168.1.2:192.168.1.1 nortscts local bsdcomp 15,15

In this way the host uses proxyarp so the LART appears to be on your
local network. Also note that I use BSD compression to compress the
data stream.

> P.S. This mail is send from the LART using telnet to my host :-)

Ah cool.


Erik

PS for people using a hard disk with a LART: Upgrade to
  linux-2.4.2-rmk1-np2 as soon as possible. Earlier kernels had a nasty
  IDE bug that could destroy your filesystem. That happened to me...

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Mar 18 02:07:56 2001
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From: "Stock Wu" 
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Cc: 
Subject: how use the framebuffer as 240*320?
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:06:09 +0800
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Hi,
My platform is assabet, and I build kernel-2.4.0-rmk2-np2 and
microwin0.89pre2.
I use framebuffer as video driver.
I find the screen is 320*240.
It means x = 320, y = 240
How can I use it as x = 240, y = 320?
Can hardware adjustment solve the problem?

Thanks!

Stock

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Mar 25 11:13:14 2001
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Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:45:51 +0000
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Bluetooth/Intel PCA on LART
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Does the LART support Bluetooth? If so, what hardware
would be needed (Mainboard, KSB, Ethernet card)? Software?

I am not sure I understand the full scope of the Intel PCA
but would this be something to consider in enabling a LART
to operate "wireless"?

		-Bill

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Mar 25 18:59:12 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:36:36 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
Subject: Re: how use the framebuffer as 240*320?
In-reply-to: <004d01c0af47$a2654ae0$871ea8c0@sr1.kinpo.com.cn>; from
 stockwu@21cn.com on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 09:06:09AM +0800
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On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 09:06:09AM +0800, Stock Wu wrote:
> My platform is assabet, and I build kernel-2.4.0-rmk2-np2 and
> microwin0.89pre2.
> I use framebuffer as video driver.
> I find the screen is 320*240.
> It means x = 320, y = 240
> How can I use it as x = 240, y = 320?
> Can hardware adjustment solve the problem?

Depends. If you have a 240x320 LCD you can connect it and adjust the
LCD timings (see drivers/video/sa1100fb.c and section 11.7 in the
SA1100 manual). If you want to drive the current 320x240 LCD as 240x320
you have to do the rotation in software. I have no idea if microwindows
supports this, but I'm sure that the XFree86 framebuffer server does.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Mar 26 23:30:46 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:28:41 +0200 (MEST)
From: Bernhard Kraft 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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Subject: Lart PCB Ordering ?
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Hello,

I want to build some LART boards for testing purposes.
It seems as already a lot of you people have built a LART.
Where have you ordered the PCB's ?
How much did they cost (Which quantity did you order) ?

I noticed that sometimes a few people orderd LART PCBs and Parts
together to get a cheaper price:
If pherhaps somebody of you is going to build some LARTs in the near
future it would be great if you could contact me. I just need
a few PCBs (3-5), but not the parts, for testing purposes.

thx,

Bernhard Kraft


-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Mar 27 10:31:59 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:26:40 +0000
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: a LART "Blip" perhaps?
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I don't know if Ericsson is on the right track but there is a
certain appeal to having wireless access available to telephones,
pc's, PDA's, etc. Here is a link to their site:

http://www.ericsson.com/blip/main.asp

Anyone think this could be better done with a LART?

		-Bill

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar 29 02:32:11 2001
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From: "Stock Wu" 
To: "Erik Mouw" ,
        "Alex Holden" 
Cc: , 
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Subject: Re: how use the framebuffer as 240*320?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:29:24 +0800
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Thanks for your helps.
Yes, I have succeeded in rotating the current 320x240 LCD to 240x320.
Besides Erik and Alex's advice, I do the rotation in software.
I modified the linear video driver of microwindows.
(for my assabet board, it is /src/drivers/fblin16.c)
i.e., (x,y) -> (x1, y1)
I think it is the easiest solution.

Stock

>Alex Holden Wrote:
>> It does- just set PORTRAIT_MODE to Y in src/config before building.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Mouw" 
To: "Stock Wu" 
Cc: ; 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: how use the framebuffer as 240*320?


> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 09:06:09AM +0800, Stock Wu wrote:
> > My platform is assabet, and I build kernel-2.4.0-rmk2-np2 and
> > microwin0.89pre2.
> > I use framebuffer as video driver.
> > I find the screen is 320*240.
> > It means x = 320, y = 240
> > How can I use it as x = 240, y = 320?
> > Can hardware adjustment solve the problem?
>
> Depends. If you have a 240x320 LCD you can connect it and adjust the
> LCD timings (see drivers/video/sa1100fb.c and section 11.7 in the
> SA1100 manual). If you want to drive the current 320x240 LCD as 240x320
> you have to do the rotation in software. I have no idea if microwindows
> supports this, but I'm sure that the XFree86 framebuffer server does.
>
>
> Erik
>
> --
> J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
> of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
> Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The
Netherlands
> Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email:
J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
> WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Mar 29 05:48:10 2001
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From: "Brown, Aaron F" 
To: "'Kraft Bernhard '" ,
        lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Cc: "Brown, Aaron F" 
Subject: RE: Lart PCB Ordering ?
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:46:32 -0800
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The place I had been looking at last fall was http://www.pcbexpress.com/,
but I really know nothing about them and I just noticed they now have a link
to the http://www.pcbpro.com place you mentioned.

Yes, I also think openhardware should be "cheap"!  The problem is that it's
an economy of scale.

I went to pcbpro's web page and punched in the numbers that looked
appropriate for a LART mainboard and what I came up with is basically it
costs as much to make 2 boards as it does to make 50, so the cost per board
is much less as we scale up into double decimal order lots.  The cost gets
pretty reasonable if we can get a half dozen people to go in on a bunch of
boards.  at 50 units with a 5 lead time a LART sized (3" x 4") 6 layer
circuit drops down to an estimated $16.20 (US) each, instead of an estimated
$405.00 (US) each for 2.  A lot of 10 estimates out at $81.00 (US) apiece
and 25 units brings it to 32.40 (US) ea.  Of course these are all estimates
and these estimates are not including a $450.00 (US) tooling charge.  Still
if we can get a half a dozen people to pool in on raw circuit boards the
cost per person is much less...

I messed around with the size parameters some and it appears we can get the
cost per LART down a bit more by putting 4 (or perhaps more) LART sized ("3
x 4") circuits on as a 6" x 8" sized order.  Perhaps a split of LART
mainboards and the Ethernet / pcmcia card Kraft was mentioning...

So I am still interested in trying to build one of these things and am
willing / wanting to go in on some boards.  If the cost per mainboard ends
up being much more then $100.00 (US) I am only going to be able to get one
(or maybe two) at most, but if we can get the cost per board down below that
I would personally get 3-8, maybe even more (again depending on cost).
Kraft, if you are planning on keeping your Ethernet / pcmcia pcb open enough
that drivers will not be a major headache I would be interested in a board
or two of those as well.  After all, one could do a lot with nothing more
then a LART mainboard, Ethernet and an assortment of cardbus adapters...

Regards,

Aaron Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: Kraft Bernhard 
[mailto:kraftb@webmodules.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:58 AM
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Cc: aaron.f.brown@intel.com
Subject: RE: Lart PCB Ordering ?


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Brown, Aaron F wrote:

> does it seem anybody has managed to coordinate a group of people to make a
> larger run of say a hundred PCB's.  What I have seen is one company, Aleph
> 1, that has put together the parts to make a bunch of LART's, but they are
> selling them for something like 500 British pounds (about  800 US
Dollars).

About 10.000 ATS (Austrian Schilling) ... A LOT TOO MUCH !!!

Does "Aleph1" KNOW what a simple PC in a NLX case (~500MHZ Intel) does
cost ... the HALF.

Openhardware should be "cheap". I think.


> Anyway, I was going to try and get a quarter dozen or so LART PCB's last
> fall, but found the price to be more then I could justify (a Compaq Ipaq
> runs $500 US and fulfills most the needs / wants I have for the LART).  It
> appeared that a run of 100 PCB's was the breakpoint that got the cost down
> to something like $10 to $20 US a board instead of over $100 US.
>

my project IS to produce MUCH MORE than 100 LARTs. I'm doing a job for a
ISP which connects people and firms through ORINOCO Wave-LAN cards (and
their own self-developed Yagi-Antennas)
They contaced me because a big problem of them is that they need a
complete PC + PCMCIA-Adapter for the ORINOCO Wave-LAN cards. I suggested
that they should use a SBC like the LART and that I would build it for
them (+ KSB with PCMCIA Interface). But as all big firms they are talking
to bosses, and bosses-boss  etc. ... it takes a long time until they will
decide things ...

So I wanted to start making a few boards ... 3 or so, and don't wait upon
the decision of their bosses.

I expected that I would have to pay ~ 100 US $ for ONE board @ quantities
of 3 or so...  But that doesn't matter. Development costs are always
higher.

So if ANYONE is interessed in ordering some PCB together:
At the end of the week (Friday, 30. March 2001) I will order 5 LART PCB's
from http://www.pcbpro.com

I DON'T known any "better" PCB Manufacturer which produces 6-layer PCBs.
If somebody knows better/cheaper Manufacturers please contact me.

(The local PCB Manu. which I always "use" just does double-sided PCBs)


> Anyway, I am still interested in building a handful of LART's, so if you
end
> up coming across a supplier or PCB house that will give a reasonable rate
> for quantities I would be willing and able to go in on a handful of the
> boards.  I would also be interested in some KSB boards if I manage to get
> any of the LART main boards.
>

At first I don't want to produce the "normal" LART KSBs. I will have to
make my own. just containing an Ethernet and PCMCIA Interface.



Kraft Bernhard
+43-676-5601414
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Unknown brain

"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit der Andersdenkenden"

- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Apr  7 23:01:55 2001
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Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:01:30 +0200
To: "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Fw: Wrong CPLD PDFs in KSB?
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>Hello,
>excuse me for posting to you in private, but I sent this message to the LART
>ML and it doesn't seem to work. Thanks in advance for your answer.

That is because the list only accepts posts from the address that you 
are subscribed at, which in your case seems to be 
g.ottavio@tiscalinet.it

>  > Hi to all,
>>  in CPLD equivalent schematics pdf shouldn't all ANDs be ORs and viceversa?
>>  As they are represented at the moment it looks like all IDE addresses are
>>  always high because they are result of a OR between the SA address and the
>  > nIDE_SPACE, so when the latter is high all of the IDE pins are high. This
>is
>>  the same for all the other gates.
>>  Is it right?

Well yes, we have IDE working with exactly these PLD contents ;-)

>  Or I'm mistaking the AND graphic symbol for the OR symbol? Or
>  > I've not understood how a bus works?

The point is most likely that you missed that most digital devices 
work with negative logic, where a '0' means asserted (or active) and 
'1' means deasserted (or inactive). In the PLD schematics, negative 
logic is indicated with a 'n' at the start of the signal name. As in 
your example above, when nIDE_SPACE is high it is inactive; only when 
nIDE_SPACE is low is the IDE subsystem enabled.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Apr  8 11:35:07 2001
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> That is because the list only accepts posts from the address that you
> are subscribed at, which in your case seems to be
> g.ottavio@tiscalinet.it
Ok

> Well yes, we have IDE working with exactly these PLD contents ;-)
Ahem, I hadn't doubts about that, I just thought that the picture was wrong.
Now that I downloaded the Lattice developement kit I realized that the
picture can't be wrong ;-)))

> >  Or I'm mistaking the AND graphic symbol for the OR symbol? Or
> >  > I've not understood how a bus works?
>
> The point is most likely that you missed that most digital devices
> work with negative logic, where a '0' means asserted (or active) and
> '1' means deasserted (or inactive). In the PLD schematics, negative
> logic is indicated with a 'n' at the start of the signal name. As in
> your example above, when nIDE_SPACE is high it is inactive; only when
> nIDE_SPACE is low is the IDE subsystem enabled.
Ah, I've never really understood the negative logic...
So when the IDE is disabled the 3 IDE addresses are high, right?
Ma perchè, perchè non capisco nemmeno le cose più semplici??? :-))

Thanks,
Giuseppe Ottaviano
giuott@tin.it


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Apr 12 23:55:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:55:05 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Linux ARM mailing list ,
        LART list 
Subject: announce: gcc-3.0 cross compiler
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Hi all,

For those of you that want to play with the upcoming gcc-3.0 release, I
made a precompiled i386-linux to arm-linux cross compiler from the
latest gcc-3.0 snapshot. You can get it from:

  http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/

Note: Gcc-3.0 is beta software! If it breaks don't say that I didn't
warn you. Use one of the gcc-2.95.2 cross compilers if you want a
stable compiler.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 17 06:41:24 2001
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From: "prakash H K Prakash" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Remote gdb for linux on lart /SA-1100 board
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:40:25 -0000
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Hello all,
      I am new to ARM development.  I am planning to workon a project that 
will be using the Linux arm port with a Lart board based on SA1100 ARM 
processor.   I was wondering if anyone could recommend the best and latest 
stable linux kernel,arm patches, cross-development tools/compiler /remote 
debugger to use?
Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Prakash

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 17 10:18:12 2001
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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:14:41 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: prakash H K Prakash 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Remote gdb for linux on lart /SA-1100 board
Message-ID: <20010417101441.A914@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 04:40:25AM -0000, prakash H K Prakash wrote:
>       I am new to ARM development.  I am planning to workon a project that 
> will be using the Linux arm port with a Lart board based on SA1100 ARM 
> processor.   I was wondering if anyone could recommend the best and latest 
> stable linux kernel,arm patches, cross-development tools/compiler /remote 
> debugger to use?

Latest stable kernel: linux-2.4.3
Latest ARM linux patch: patch-2.4.3-rmk1
Latest SA1100 patch: diff-2.4.3-rmk1-np1
Latest cross compiler: anything based on gcc-2.95.2 is OK (for example
  the one on the LART pages)

I don't know about a remote debugger because I hardly use debuggers
(only to get a stack trace). This question was answered a month ago
(around March 8) on the linux-arm-kernel mailing list, so please read
the mailing list archive.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 18 10:02:12 2001
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From: "Keyzer, W.D." 
To: "'Erik Mouw'" ,
        prakash H K Prakash
	 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: Remote gdb for linux on lart /SA-1100 board
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Dear readers,


I am looking for a adapter for the Dell latitude cp.  The adapter have a DC
voltage of 20 Volt and 3.5 A 
I hope that you can help me.
kind regards nancy
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Erik Mouw [SMTP:J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:15 AM
> To:	prakash H K Prakash
> Cc:	lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject:	Re: Remote gdb for linux on lart /SA-1100 board
> 
> 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 18 10:54:18 2001
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:50:53 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: "Keyzer, W.D." 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Remote gdb for linux on lart /SA-1100 board
Message-ID: <20010418105053.B6985@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:04:24AM +0200, Keyzer, W.D. wrote:
> I am looking for a adapter for the Dell latitude cp.  The adapter have a DC
> voltage of 20 Volt and 3.5 A 

And this is related to LART because...?

Use a more appropriate forum (news:nl.markt.comp in your case).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 18 12:39:34 2001
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:33:43 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: 2.2 kernels on LART?
To: LART list 
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Is there reasonably functional LART support in 2.2 kernels or not?

Someone has some stuff they need to use that only works with 2.2 and would
like to use a LART. I shall try to persuade them that they need to move to
2.4 anyway so they might as well do it now, but it would still be useful for
them to be able to get going using 2.2 in the meantime - is this practical?

Wookey
-- 
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work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 18 15:04:48 2001
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:00:31 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Wookey 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: 2.2 kernels on LART?
Message-ID: <20010418150031.D6985@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:33:43AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> Is there reasonably functional LART support in 2.2 kernels or not?

The last time I tried it was with a 2.2.14 kernel (with appropriate rmk
and np patches), and it worked. Never tried any later 2.2 kernel.

> Someone has some stuff they need to use that only works with 2.2 and would
> like to use a LART.

I'm trying to imagine what that could be. AFAIK the difference as seen
from userland between 2.2 and 2.4 isn't large.

>  I shall try to persuade them that they need to move to
> 2.4 anyway so they might as well do it now, but it would still be useful for
> them to be able to get going using 2.2 in the meantime - is this practical?

A 2.2 kernel works, but it isn't the most stable kernel you can get.
The stability improved quite a lot in 2.4 IMHO.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 18 15:22:56 2001
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:17:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: 2.2 kernels on LART?
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: LART list 
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On Wed 18 Apr, Erik Mouw wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:33:43AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> > Is there reasonably functional LART support in 2.2 kernels or not?
> 
> The last time I tried it was with a 2.2.14 kernel (with appropriate rmk
> and np patches), and it worked. Never tried any later 2.2 kernel.

2.2.14 is the last 2.2 np patch available so that fits.
Nice to know it does work so at least they can start with this if they really
want to.

> I'm trying to imagine what that could be. AFAIK the difference as seen
> from userland between 2.2 and 2.4 isn't large.

> A 2.2 kernel works, but it isn't the most stable kernel you can get.
> The stability improved quite a lot in 2.4 IMHO.

my thoughts exactly.

Wookey
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 19:09:18 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:04:38 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Blob2.01 and relocation runes
To: LART list 
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This mail is mostly for Erik but I thought it would be of interest to the
list and maybe somebody else here can help me out.

Background: When blob 1.xx is running from the LART flash it can't write
kernels back to the flash it is running from. It needs to copy itself to ram
first and re-run itself.

Progress so far: Erik did the work to make a new blob (blob 2) that could do
this copy-to-ram and rerun trick. To do this blob is compiled in two parts -
blob-start and blob-rest, then they are stuck together with blob-rest being
offset 0x400. The start part contains just enough code to initialise, and
copy the whole thing into RAM at 0xc0000000 then call the new location of
blob-rest which is 0xc000400.

Erik sent me this code as written and compiling but not tested. I found a
couple of things that prevented it from working and then replaced the stub
blob-rest with the old blob 1.08pre2 code so that it actually did something.
However this seemed to sort-of work, but printed all the wrong strings and
garbage all over the place and generally didn't work right. I left it like
that for a few weeks (hoping erik would see my foolish errors and fix it :-).

I've just got back to this and worked out the problem:

offsetting blob-rest by 0x400 is OK for the branches as they are all
releative, but breaks the static string references as they now all point to
places 0x400 bytes before the start of the strings (hence the garbage being
printed). 

I've made it work by only copying blob-rest into RAM, leaving blob-start in
flash and then jumping to 0xc000000 instead of 0xc000400. This removes the
0x400 offset so everything works. An alternative approach would be to use
something (objcopy?) to translate all the static string references (can it do
that - it's beyond my ken?).

I'm not sure whether it's important to have blob-start copied too, given that
resets will always be back to the start of the flash? But equally blob-rest
will not work on it's own as it needs a C-environment (stack) and some other
set-up.

If I get it to write the kernel and ramdisk to flash will blob-start remain
or be erased?

So now it works except that runningfromInternal() still says we are as it
checks something that I presume indicates the presence of the external flash
card. We need some flag to say that we are runing from ram, having
sucessfully copied and jumped. What form should this take - a magic number at
the start/end of blob-rest initialised by main?

So essentially - I need some clues about what happens on reset and we need to
think about the design of this bootloader a bit. I'm not sure if there is
good reason Erik did it the way he did and my method is insufficient? Or if
in fact what i've now got is what he meant.

Discuss. I'll upload my current code to
http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/lart/blob2.02.tgz

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 19:51:58 2001
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Hallo,

for a project here, I have approximate these task
- wait for an event
- gather data from around 100 chips sources ( spread on 6 boards,
  at least double Euro Format)
- build a block of data and send it away on some serial device, probably
  with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.
- wait for the next event

- another I/O module for test purposed

Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time critical,
and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the processor board.

So I would prefer a rather "slow" 32 bit wide data bus to a faster smaller
bus . However I haven't seen the LART ( or another design with the SA-1100)
attached to a wide and loaded bus. Does using the Arm make sense here? Would
the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus? Has
anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice (schematics)?

Thanks

-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 21:49:50 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:47:56 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Wookey 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: Blob2.01 and relocation runes
Message-ID: <20010424214756.F2615@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 06:04:38PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> Progress so far: Erik did the work to make a new blob (blob 2) that could do
> this copy-to-ram and rerun trick. To do this blob is compiled in two parts -
> blob-start and blob-rest, then they are stuck together with blob-rest being
> offset 0x400. The start part contains just enough code to initialise, and
> copy the whole thing into RAM at 0xc0000000 then call the new location of
> blob-rest which is 0xc000400.
> 
> Erik sent me this code as written and compiling but not tested. I found a
> couple of things that prevented it from working and then replaced the stub
> blob-rest with the old blob 1.08pre2 code so that it actually did something.
> However this seemed to sort-of work, but printed all the wrong strings and
> garbage all over the place and generally didn't work right. I left it like
> that for a few weeks (hoping erik would see my foolish errors and fix it :-).

Well sorry, I was busy hacking other things :)

> I've just got back to this and worked out the problem:
> 
> offsetting blob-rest by 0x400 is OK for the branches as they are all
> releative, but breaks the static string references as they now all point to
> places 0x400 bytes before the start of the strings (hence the garbage being
> printed). 
> 
> I've made it work by only copying blob-rest into RAM, leaving blob-start in
> flash and then jumping to 0xc000000 instead of 0xc000400. This removes the
> 0x400 offset so everything works. An alternative approach would be to use
> something (objcopy?) to translate all the static string references (can it do
> that - it's beyond my ken?).

Hmm yeah, I see what's wrong. In start.S we say that the CPU should
jump to 0xc0000400 (i.e. MEM_START + TRAMPOLINE), but in rest-ld-script
we tell the linker that it starts at 0xc0000000. So blob happily jumps
to 0xc0000400, which might contain anything but the entry point
_trampoline from trampoline.S. Your fix works perfectly well, another
way to fix it is to change the start address in rest-ld-script.

> I'm not sure whether it's important to have blob-start copied too, given that
> resets will always be back to the start of the flash? But equally blob-rest
> will not work on it's own as it needs a C-environment (stack) and some other
> set-up.

It's not really necessary. I can't really remember why I copied
blob-start as well. Must have something to do with the fact that I
hacked on it in the middle of the night or so... :-)

> If I get it to write the kernel and ramdisk to flash will blob-start remain
> or be erased?

It will remain, the kernel and ramdisk are located on Flash block
offsets.

> So now it works except that runningfromInternal() still says we are as it
> checks something that I presume indicates the presence of the external flash
> card. We need some flag to say that we are runing from ram, having
> sucessfully copied and jumped. What form should this take - a magic number at
> the start/end of blob-rest initialised by main?

runningfromInternal() just checks of the flash at 0x00000000 is 32 or
16 bit wide. If it is 32 bit wide, it's the internal flash board,
otherwise it's an external flash board. The external flash board
connects nBOOT_EXT to ground, which forces the internal flash to be
moved further up in the memory map.

To check if you're running from ROM or RAM, just look at the current
value of pc. This little piece of assembly should give you the value of
pc:

.text
.globl get_pc
get_pc:
	mov	r0, pc
	mov	pc, lr

The C prototype for this "function" is:

	u32 get_pc(void);

(Yeah, I know this could have been done with inline assembly, but I
never really understood that).

> So essentially - I need some clues about what happens on reset and we need to
> think about the design of this bootloader a bit. I'm not sure if there is
> good reason Erik did it the way he did and my method is insufficient? Or if
> in fact what i've now got is what he meant.

Well, as you might have see I have been trying to clean up the code. I
started with start.S and moved only the most essential things in there.
My main ideas about blob are:

- start.S should do only the most essential things: setup memory, setup
  a stack pointer, copy itself to RAM and jump to RAM. oh, and support
  for wake-up from sleep mode.
- the C code should initialise the necessary hardware (serial port,
  timer) and do the dirty work.

For the C code, I have the following goals:

- general cleanup
- probe the amount of memory and pass it to the kernel
- proper memory tester
- kernel command line
- store variables in Flash
- write kernel/ramdisk/blob to flash

> Discuss. I'll upload my current code to
> http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/lart/blob2.02.tgz
                                   ^^^^
Make that capitals, Linux *is* case sensitive :)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 22:17:29 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:17:02 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Uwe Bonnes 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:51:54PM +0200, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> Hallo,

Hi Uwe, long time no see! 
(for the rest of you: Uwe and I both hacked on DOSemu :)

> for a project here, I have approximate these task
> - wait for an event
> - gather data from around 100 chips sources ( spread on 6 boards,
>   at least double Euro Format)
> - build a block of data and send it away on some serial device, probably
>   with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.
> - wait for the next event
> 
> - another I/O module for test purposed
> 
> Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time critical,
> and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the processor board.

So if I understand it correctly the task is to gather data, process it,
and move it to the next device.

> So I would prefer a rather "slow" 32 bit wide data bus to a faster smaller
> bus . However I haven't seen the LART ( or another design with the SA-1100)
> attached to a wide and loaded bus.

What do you mean with a wide bus? Wider than 32 bits?

> Does using the Arm make sense here?

Depends.

If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so you
can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
with Linux AFAIK. If you need PCI, you'd better use the SA110 with its
21285 companion chip (like the Corel Netwinder), or the new Intel 80200
XScale with the 80310 companion chip.

If you need processing power, the SA1100/SA1110 also makes sense. On
average it is as fast as a Pentium 200, but for some applications it
really outperforms a Pentium (Jan-Derk Bakker has been working on FFT
code that ran as fast as on a DSP, and I think his current code is even
faster). However, if you need floating point, the ARM family is
definitively not the way to go. For more processing power, use the
XScale; for less processing power, use another CPU from the ARM family.

> Would the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus?

To avoid confusion, let me explain: 32-bit PCMCIA doesn't exist, PCMCIA
is always 16 bit and it more or less works like the good old ISA bus.
The newer 32 bit PC cards are Cardbus, which is actually a PCI variant.

The SA1100 doesn't support PCI, so Cardbus is not an option. However,
it can do 32 bit read and writes in its PCMCIA memory space, and simple
32 bit devices mapped over there will work. Simple 32 bit means: 32 bit
address bus, 32 bit data bus, and some selection signals.

> Has anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice
> (schematics)?

We do have a couple of boards with 32 bit IO in development (IIRC), but
I don't have the schematics right now. I'm sure Jan-Derk can elaborate
on this, but unfortunately he's currently visiting a conference until
end of this week. In the mean time you have to deal with me :)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 22:53:47 2001
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:

> If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so you
> can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
> it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
> with Linux AFAIK.

In fact, there are at least two designs out there with SA1110 + PCI
interface in a CPLD or such.  One of them is actually running Linux and
driving PCI devices.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Apr 24 23:39:53 2001
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:39:39 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Nicolas Pitre 
Cc: Uwe Bonnes , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 04:48:49PM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so you
> > can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
> > it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
> > with Linux AFAIK.
> 
> In fact, there are at least two designs out there with SA1110 + PCI
> interface in a CPLD or such.  One of them is actually running Linux and
> driving PCI devices.

Which designs are that?

IMHO an SA1110 with PCI doesn't make sense, simply because of the
problems you'll encounter. First of all, for busmastering the PCI
(north) bridge also has to do the memory refresh when it gets the bus
from the SA1110. Quite tricky with SDRAM. Sure, you can do very short
bursts between two memory refresh cycles, but that severely limits the
latency and bandwidth. If you want the full bandwidth, you'll have to
use quite some space on your FPGA (a CPLD is too small for this) to get
the memory refresh right. This is a risky business as we have seen with
the clock scaling code for the SA1110: if you don't get it right, the
system just locks up.

If you want to do PCI with ARM, use the KISS[1] principle and go for a
solution that was designed and tested with PCI busmastering in mind:
SA110+21285 or XScale 80200+80310.


Erik

[1] Keep It Simple, Stupid!

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 04:48:49PM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > > If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so you
> > > can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
> > > it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
> > > with Linux AFAIK.
> >
> > In fact, there are at least two designs out there with SA1110 + PCI
> > interface in a CPLD or such.  One of them is actually running Linux and
> > driving PCI devices.
>
> Which designs are that?

1- something called "Coolidge SBC"
   - Linux support working from the last status I had (I didn't see the code
     yet though, but you can find many references of that board on the
     ARM Linux mailing lists)
   - equipped with an Intel 82559 ethernet on-board (working under Linux)
   - contact: Paul Wang 

2: The Accelent folks (www.accelent.com) have (or had?) a contract to
produce a board with the SA1110, PCI interface and multiple ethernet ports.
Don't know if it finally happened.

A grep in my mail folders points me to this quote:

> > I saw an ad for an Avnet Design Services PCI
> > bridge for the SA-1110 in a Xilinx Spartan-II and included
> > firmware.  I'm looking at Xilinx, Altera and Cypress also.

Since the Coolidge is distributed by Avnet I guess those are related.

> IMHO an SA1110 with PCI doesn't make sense, simply because of the
> problems you'll encounter. First of all, for busmastering the PCI
> (north) bridge also has to do the memory refresh when it gets the bus
> from the SA1110. Quite tricky with SDRAM. Sure, you can do very short

It's been done apparently.  Of course there is always the LCD flicker
issue during heavy DMA transfers.

> bursts between two memory refresh cycles, but that severely limits the
> latency and bandwidth. If you want the full bandwidth, you'll have to
> use quite some space on your FPGA (a CPLD is too small for this) to get

Sorry, I actually meant FPGA not CPLD.

> If you want to do PCI with ARM, use the KISS[1] principle and go for a
> solution that was designed and tested with PCI busmastering in mind:
> SA110+21285 or XScale 80200+80310.

The Coy80310 combo is quite heavy duty, and both solutions still lack many
peripherals already folded in the SA1110.  If the Coolidge board is
available for sale I would give it a whirle first.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 25 08:38:12 2001
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Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:37:04 +0200
To: Uwe Bonnes 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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[Just arrived from Atlanta; let's see if this jetlag prevents me to 
think straight]

>for a project here, I have approximate these task
>- wait for an event

How frequent does this event occur ? How much delay/jitter do you 
allow in your reaction times ?

>- gather data from around 100 chips sources ( spread on 6 boards,
>   at least double Euro Format)

What kind of data ? How much ? What protocol ? Is it important that 
all the chips are sampled at the same time ?

>- build a block of data and send it away on some serial device, probably
>   with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.

Datarates ? Any control/handshake required, or just plain streaming ? 
Is TAXI still alive ? Would HotLink (http://www.cypress.com/hotlink/) 
do ?

>- wait for the next event
>
>- another I/O module for test purposed

What kind of I/O ?

>Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time critical,
>and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the processor board.

Please elaborate.

>
>So I would prefer a rather "slow" 32 bit wide data bus to a faster smaller
>bus . However I haven't seen the LART ( or another design with the SA-1100)
>attached to a wide and loaded bus. Does using the Arm make sense here?

The nice thing about the ARM is that you can get away with a 
relatively simple controller design: just make your subsystem look 
like SRAM.

>  Would
>the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus? Has
>anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice (schematics)?

Be more specific; I see a number of scenarios where an ARM/LART would 
make sense (and work), and another class where a Pentium SBC is 
called for.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From: "David Burg" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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Hello,

About SA110 and PCI, I have see this article :

http://www.linuxdevices.com/products/PD7722394571.html

The board have 4 PCI connectors. It is produced by Embedone Co., Ltd. and I
have contact them. They have inform me that they got S/W troubles with the
PCMCIA device driver, so it is not a proof that CardBus is possible.

Best regards,

David Burg.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Mouw" 
To: "Nicolas Pitre" 
Cc: "Uwe Bonnes" ;

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition


> On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 04:48:49PM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > > If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so
you
> > > can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
> > > it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
> > > with Linux AFAIK.
> >
> > In fact, there are at least two designs out there with SA1110 + PCI
> > interface in a CPLD or such.  One of them is actually running Linux and
> > driving PCI devices.
>
> Which designs are that?
>
> IMHO an SA1110 with PCI doesn't make sense, simply because of the
> problems you'll encounter. First of all, for busmastering the PCI
> (north) bridge also has to do the memory refresh when it gets the bus
> from the SA1110. Quite tricky with SDRAM. Sure, you can do very short
> bursts between two memory refresh cycles, but that severely limits the
> latency and bandwidth. If you want the full bandwidth, you'll have to
> use quite some space on your FPGA (a CPLD is too small for this) to get
> the memory refresh right. This is a risky business as we have seen with
> the clock scaling code for the SA1110: if you don't get it right, the
> system just locks up.
>
> If you want to do PCI with ARM, use the KISS[1] principle and go for a
> solution that was designed and tested with PCI busmastering in mind:
> SA110+21285 or XScale 80200+80310.
>
>
> Erik
>
> [1] Keep It Simple, Stupid!
>
> --
> J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
> of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
> Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The
Netherlands
> Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email:
J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
> WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
> --
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 25 11:07:02 2001
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Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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>>>>> "J.D." == J D Bakker  writes:

...

    J.D.> How frequent does this event occur ? How much delay/jitter do you
    J.D.> allow in your reaction times ?

    >> - gather data from around 100 chips sources ( spread on 6 boards, at
    >> least double Euro Format)

    J.D.> What kind of data ? How much ? What protocol ? Is it important
    J.D.> that all the chips are sampled at the same time ?

The data we aquired is triggered external and is a 16 bit time difference
with a maximum range of about 10 us. There are about 960 chanals, but as
only local groups trigger, there are "only" 84 TDC (Time To Digital TDC-GP1
(http://www.acam.de)) chips to be read out and the (encoded) values of what
channels triggered plus some householding. So readout can be sequential and
the device will probably be memory mapped to the CPU address space.
Trigger events will come with a max rate of about 20 kHz, events coming
earlier will be rejected.

    >> - build a block of data and send it away on some serial device,
    >> probably with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.

    J.D.> Datarates ? Any control/handshake required, or just plain
    J.D.> streaming ?  Is TAXI still alive ? Would HotLink
    J.D.> (http://www.cypress.com/hotlink/) do ?

Hotlink was the word I didn't remember in my mail yesterday. Let's go for
the 200 MBaud Rate. Gigastar might also be an option...

Data block size:
84 16 bit TDC data plus position plus overhead = around 500 byte

Transfer time:
500 byte/200 MBaud would take about 20 us
Probably no handshaking.
Protocols aren't fixed yet, but probably a fixed block format is choosen

Let's target at an event rate of 20 kHz = 50 us. The first 10 usec are
unavailabe, as the aquisistion goes on, we need 20 usec for data
transmission, so if I don't interleave read out/block building/data
transmission, there is about 20 usec for data readout. Interleaving read
out/block building/data transmission doesn't make the time available for
read out longer, as the Hotlink needs to be keep streaming, as otherwise it
will intersparse idle cycles, but would allow higher event rates.

With a 32 bit read out bus, glue logic will simultaniously read out four
bytes from four TDCs, so for the 500 bytes we need around 125 IO cycles and
with 20 us available for IO a IO cycle time of 160ns would be available. The
TDCs have a cycle time of around 100ns (in a slow mode), so 60 ns would
remain for glue logic/drivers in the IO data path.

    >> - wait for the next event
    >> 
    >> - another I/O module for test purposed

    J.D.> What kind of I/O ?

Scalers, test pattern generation. Some other values have to be read out with
every event. 

    >> Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time
    >> critical, and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the
    >> processor board.

    J.D.> Please elaborate.

As the number of chanels impies, with each chanel coming in as a
differential signal, I can't put everything on one board. The only sensible
partitioning is 6 TDC boards, probably in some VME 9u crate. With the scaler
I think this is a quite loaded bus.
 
I hope now, I gave enough explanations above.

...

    J.D.> The nice thing about the ARM is that you can get away with a
    J.D.> relatively simple controller design: just make your subsystem look
    J.D.> like SRAM.


    >> Would the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus? Has
    >> anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice
    >> (schematics)?

    J.D.> Be more specific; I see a number of scenarios where an ARM/LART
    J.D.> would make sense (and work), and another class where a Pentium SBC
    J.D.> is called for.

What I want:
- have an IO Interface that is quite easy to implement
- Have a Toolchain availale on Linux

What I don't want:
- reinvent the wheel
- Step up the learning curve for a PCI interface for _this_ project

So also I need to reimplement a controller PCB layout with the ARM/LART, I can
get away from PCI with the ARM. In my understanding a X86 SBC only has ISA
or PCI, and ISA is to slow and PCI to complicated. Correct me if I am wrong.

So I will check availability of key parts and hope to be able to stay with
the ARM after that.

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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>>>>> "Erik" == Erik Mouw  writes:

    Erik> On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:51:54PM +0200, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
    >> Hallo,

    Erik> Hi Uwe, long time no see!  (for the rest of you: Uwe and I both
    Erik> hacked on DOSemu :)

Actually Eric hacked and I tried to...

    Erik> ...

    Erik> So if I understand it correctly the task is to gather data,
    Erik> process it, and move it to the next device.

Correct.

    Erik> What do you mean with a wide bus? Wider than 32 bits?

I meant 32 versus 16 versus 8 bit.

I sent more details of the project in a separate mail...

    >> Has anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice
    >> (schematics)?

    Erik> We do have a couple of boards with 32 bit IO in development
    Erik> (IIRC), but I don't have the schematics right now. I'm sure
    Erik> Jan-Derk can elaborate on this, but unfortunately he's currently
    Erik> visiting a conference until end of this week. In the mean time you
    Erik> have to deal with me :)

As expained in the other mail, I want to avoid the PCI learning curve with
this project. So yes, I would be glad to see the schematics ( or the bus
part of the schematics), but there is no hurry.

I also have to check availabilty of the ARM parts in small numbers with our
distributors. Or is the ARM available with any catalogue distributor?

    Erik> ...

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Apr 25 15:40:36 2001
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Subject: Speech recognition on LART+KSB
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Hi LART gurus,

We intend to port our speech recognition to LART+KSB. Is there anybody
working on similar things?

Also if somebody knows answer please kindly let me know:

- what would be LART (KSB) production price in 1000+ quantities?
  (I even failed to find any estimates of SA1100 price.)

- are there any designs with stereo (quad) mic input?
  (we need it for noise canceling)

- any estimates/tests of (fixed point) signal processing speed?
  I found FFT tests on similar hardware with no OS and with WinCE:

  http://www.inhandelectronics.com/pdf/fft.pdf

  1024 point real FFT was 3.1 ms with WinCE and VisualC++, 1.38 ms with
  no OS and ARM SDT, and 0.83 ms with no OS and ARM SDT and
  multiplication in assembler (all on 206MHz SA1100).

  - Any numbers for LART? (Maybe Mr. Bakker has them for his FFT?)

  - Any numbers for Intel IPP implementation of FFT on LART?

  (We would do 256 point FFT, multiply vector by 26x12 constant
   matrix, many times rough estimate of ln(e^x+e^y) computed as
   max(x,y)+ln(1+exp(-abs(x)) and some memory-intensive moving
   tokens around, any related benchmarks are appreciated)


For the real production, we might design modification of LART, we need
just mic (1-2-4), one pushbutton and serial line - something similar
to inhand electronics Fingertip
(http://www.inhandelectronics.com/html/finger.html), or we might just
use Fingertip.

I am a newbie on this list, please let me know and sorry if some of my
questions do not fit here - benchmark related ones maybe.

Our first LARTs should come from Aleph One in a few days, so I am
rather new to all this.

Thanks for any answers

Best Regards

Vaclav Hanzl

Speech Recognition Group

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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:36:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Blob2.01 and relocation runes
To: LART list 
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Yesterday I accidentaly replied just to erik rather than the list. So quick
executive summary:

Blob 2.02 now works and lets you program the flash with a kernel and ramdisk.
However it does this by simply bypassing the internal/external flash checks
and needs a bit of tidying.

Also, more seriously, the LART only runs at about 25% speed with the new blob
- something is not right (cache setup, perhaps?). An interim solution is to
use the new version to flash the kernel and ramdisk images then put blob 1.07
back in, which works OK.

I've just this morning added some code for checking which flash we are
running frm so it should copy to ram in either case, and put in some error
routines to flash the LED in distinctive ways when something goes wrong.

At the moment all disiters give the same triple-flash-pause. Is there any
point trying to distinguish between the various error states with different
numbers of flashes (eg the software interrupt 'you forgot to turn angelboot
off in the kernel' is perhaps relatively common so making it distinguishable
would be a good idea.

Why did you guys only put one LED on the LART? - its a bit limiting for
diagnostics :-)

I agree with Erik's streamlining ideas so I'll try to follow that plan. 

I'll send Erik a big patch next time I get a stable version.

In the meantime the current tarball 'no promises' version is at:

http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/blob2.02.tgz

Also whilst I'm mailing for those of you using the old blob, but bored of the
command, change serial speed, upload, change serial speed etc rigmarole.
here's a handy script to do it all for you. Just leave blob at the blob
prompt then run this to upload the two specified files to the given port. Use
alt-W in minicom to turn linewrap on so that you can watch all the dots, not
just the first 40 :-)

#!/bin/sh
# this script does the tedious job of setting serial port speeds and 
# uploading files. The sleeps allow blob to keep up without screen corruption
# on serial speed changes.

PORT=/dev/ttyS1
KERNEL=zImage240.uu
RAMDISK=mp3disk.uu

echo Starting Kernel upload
stty 1:0:cbd:0:3:1c:7f:15:4:5:1:0:11:13:1a:0:12:f:17:16:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 < $PORT
echo "download kernel" > $PORT
sleep 1
stty 1:0:1cb2:0:3:1c:7f:15:4:5:1:0:11:13:1a:0:12:f:17:16:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 < $PORT
dd if=$KERNEL > $PORT
sleep 1
echo Starting ramdisk upload
stty 1:0:cbd:0:3:1c:7f:15:4:5:1:0:11:13:1a:0:12:f:17:16:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 < $PORT
sleep 1
echo "download ramdisk" > $PORT
sleep 1
stty 1:0:1cb2:0:3:1c:7f:15:4:5:1:0:11:13:1a:0:12:f:17:16:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 < $PORT
dd if=$RAMDISK > $PORT
sleep 1
stty 1:0:cbd:0:3:1c:7f:15:4:5:1:0:11:13:1a:0:12:f:17:16:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 < $PORT
echo -e "\r" > $PORT


Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Apr 26 17:31:54 2001
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: about NFS-root file system
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:20:26 KST
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Hello.
I'm working on my own SA1110 BD.
I tried to use RedHat 6.2 Server as root file system of my BD.
For mounting NFS-root fs, I made NFS-root filesystem on the server 
as below,
   mkdir /tftproot/192.168.0.3
   cd  /tftproot/192.168.0.3
   cp -dpR /bin bin
   cp -dpR /dev dev
   cp -dpR /etc etc
   cp -dpR /lib lib
   cp -dpR /sbin sbin

As I saw, SA1110 did mount well, 
but when it called the below codes,
    execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
    execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
    execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
    execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);   
panic message appeared like this.
    "Kernel panic: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel."

Because of this, I found other documents about NFS-root fs,
but I couldn't any solution, especially about my situation.

As I know, the normal case has the messages like this,
    INIT: version X.xx booting
    INIT: Entering runlevel: X
    (prompt)#

My questions are,
1. Even though I copied the server's bin, lib, ..., according to documents,
   I think that two systems are different *definitely*.
   Is it(NFS-root fs) possible just by copying them?
   
2. If it is right to copy file server's bin, etc, ... (and so on), 
   Shall I have to do other setting except "cp -dpR ..." ?
   In fact, I tried to change the file 
            .
            .
        id:1:initdefault:
            .
            .
        1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 9600 ttyS0
            .
            .
   But the result was also same.  T_T

I don't know well about linux boot & NFS-root fs,
I'm very confused because of a lot of documents contents.
Please give me some hints & advices.  

Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting kernel ...

Linux version 2.4.0-test4-rmk1-np1 (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 2.9
5.2 20000212 (release) [Rebel.com]) #64 ¸ñ 4¿ù 26 22:44:57 KST 2001
Processor: Intel StrongARM-1110 revision 6
Architecture: Intel-Assabet
On node 0 totalpages: 2048
zone(0): 2048 pages.
zone(1): 0 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
Kernel command line: root=/dev/nfs rw nfsroot=192.168.0.5

......... nfsConsole: colour dummy device 80x30
Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS
Memory: 8MB = 8MB total
Memory: 6324KB available (1350K code, 265K data, 76K init)
Dentry-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.3
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 512 bind 512)
Starting kswapd v1.6
Console: switching to colour frame buffer device 40x30
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
loop: registered device at major 7
loop: enabling 8 loop devices
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.31
ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
FLASH driver initialized
eth0: cs8900 rev J Base 0xD8000300<6>, IRQ 47, MAC 00:00:00:00:00:00
EFS: 1.0a - http://aeschi.ch.eu.org/efs/
SA1100 serial driver version 1.3
devfs: devfs_register(): device already registered: "ttyS"
devfs: devfs_register(): device already registered: "ttyS"
devfs: devfs_register(): device already registered: "cua"
devfs: devfs_register(): device already registered: "cua"
ttyS0 on SA1100 UART1 (irq 15)
ttyS1 on SA1100 UART3 (irq 17)
ttyS2 on SA1100 UART2 (irq 16), using IRDA
PPP generic driver version 2.4.1
PPP Deflate Compression module registered
PPP BSD Compression module registered
Linux PCMCIA Card Services 3.1.11
  options:  none
SA-1100 PCMCIA (CS release 3.1.11)
Sending BOOTP and RARP requests.... OK
IP-Config: Got BOOTP answer from 192.168.0.1, my address is 192.168.0.3
NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.95 (c) 1998-1999 Rebel.com
devfs: v0.102 (20000622) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au)
devfs: devfs_debug: 0x0
devfs: boot_options: 0x0
Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 192.168.0.5
Looking up port of RPC 100005/2 on 192.168.0.5
VFS: Mounted root (nfs filesystem).
Mounted devfs on /dev
Freeing unused kernel memory: 76k init
Kernel panic: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel.
cs: socket 1 timed out during reset


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Apr 26 18:10:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:04:50 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Gagamel 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: about NFS-root file system
Message-ID: <20010426180450.A23130@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:20:26AM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> I'm working on my own SA1110 BD.
> I tried to use RedHat 6.2 Server as root file system of my BD.
> For mounting NFS-root fs, I made NFS-root filesystem on the server 
> as below,
>    mkdir /tftproot/192.168.0.3
>    cd  /tftproot/192.168.0.3
>    cp -dpR /bin bin
>    cp -dpR /dev dev
>    cp -dpR /etc etc
>    cp -dpR /lib lib
>    cp -dpR /sbin sbin

uhoh... i386 binaries ahead...

> As I saw, SA1110 did mount well, 
> but when it called the below codes,
>     execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>     execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>     execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>     execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);   
> panic message appeared like this.
>     "Kernel panic: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel."

... more evidence...

> Because of this, I found other documents about NFS-root fs,
> but I couldn't any solution, especially about my situation.
> 
> As I know, the normal case has the messages like this,
>     INIT: version X.xx booting
>     INIT: Entering runlevel: X
>     (prompt)#
> 
> My questions are,
> 1. Even though I copied the server's bin, lib, ..., according to documents,
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The server is probably an i386-linux system. You copied i386 init
binary to the NFS root for an ARM system. ARM system tried to exec
init, but failed because it is not an arm-linux binary.

>    I think that two systems are different *definitely*.
>    Is it(NFS-root fs) possible just by copying them?

Sure, but not with i386 binaries. Use one of the available ramdisks
(like the LART ramdisk or the one from Nicolas Pitre) as the NFS root
image, or the Debian/ARM root image, available from:

ftp://ftp..debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/disks-arm/current/root.bin

Look for a Debian mirror close to you on www.debian.org.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Apr 27 03:34:05 2001
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From: "Gagamel" 
Reply-To: "Gagamel" 
To: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Re: about NFS-root file system
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:30:51 KST
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Yes, you're right.
According to your advice, I mounted ramdisk image to my x86 PC(server).
And I did NFS-root fs. Of course, there were some problems on environment
setting, but kernel panic didn't appear.
In fact, my flash memory is too small to store ramdisk image, so I tried 
NFS-root file system.  Even though above solution did succeed, I have 
another question.

For example, I develop on x86 and try to make a ramdisk for ARM BD.
Can I make it on my PC(x86)? Is there any method or tools?
If there is and if you know, please tell me the method any documents.

Thank you.

>---------> Received Mail <----------
> Title : Re: about NFS-root file system
> Date : Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:04:50 +0200
> From : Erik Mouw 
> To : Gagamel 
> Cc : lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> 
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:20:26AM +0900, Gagamel wrote:
> > I'm working on my own SA1110 BD.
> > I tried to use RedHat 6.2 Server as root file system of my BD.
> > For mounting NFS-root fs, I made NFS-root filesystem on the server 
> > as below,
> >    mkdir /tftproot/192.168.0.3
> >    cd  /tftproot/192.168.0.3
> >    cp -dpR /bin bin
> >    cp -dpR /dev dev
> >    cp -dpR /etc etc
> >    cp -dpR /lib lib
> >    cp -dpR /sbin sbin
> 
> uhoh... i386 binaries ahead...
> 
> > As I saw, SA1110 did mount well, 
> > but when it called the below codes,
> >     execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >     execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >     execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >     execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);   
> > panic message appeared like this.
> >     "Kernel panic: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel."
> 
> ... more evidence...
> 
> > Because of this, I found other documents about NFS-root fs,
> > but I couldn't any solution, especially about my situation.
> > 
> > As I know, the normal case has the messages like this,
> >     INIT: version X.xx booting
> >     INIT: Entering runlevel: X
> >     (prompt)#
> > 
> > My questions are,
> > 1. Even though I copied the server's bin, lib, ..., according to documents,
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The server is probably an i386-linux system. You copied i386 init
> binary to the NFS root for an ARM system. ARM system tried to exec
> init, but failed because it is not an arm-linux binary.
> 
> >    I think that two systems are different *definitely*.
> >    Is it(NFS-root fs) possible just by copying them?
> 
> Sure, but not with i386 binaries. Use one of the available ramdisks
> (like the LART ramdisk or the one from Nicolas Pitre) as the NFS root
> image, or the Debian/ARM root image, available from:
> 
> ftp://ftp..debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/disks-arm/current/root.bin
> 
> Look for a Debian mirror close to you on www.debian.org.
> 
> 
> Erik
> 
> -- 
> J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
> of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
> Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
> Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
> WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
> 


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Apr 27 15:27:08 2001
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	id 14t83n-0006iv-00; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:13:23 +0100
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:13:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Re: about NFS-root file system
To: Gagamel 
cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <20010427103051.HM.T0000000002cjYn@www30.hanmail.net>
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On Fri 27 Apr, Gagamel wrote:

> For example, I develop on x86 and try to make a ramdisk for ARM BD.
> Can I make it on my PC(x86)? Is there any method or tools?
> If there is and if you know, please tell me the method any documents.

There are various ways you can do this. You can set up your cross compiler to
compile everything you need, you can take the executables you need from the
Debian archive, you can use other people's ramdisks, or you can use a
kernel+ramdisk generator like emdebian's CML2+OS to automate the process.

Jeff Sutherland and I are working on updating the ARM cross-compilation
toolchain to include cross-compilation setup for userland apps. That won't be
ready for a while. In the mentime I'd take what you need from the Debian
archive - it's easy and effective. I'll be documenting the details soon but
in the meantime either use midnight commander to open the deb as a virtual
filing system, or:
 
ar -xv debname
gives 3 files 
 data.tar.gz
 control.tar.gz
 debian-binary
data.tar.gz  contains the files that get installed. extract them in the usual
way.


Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Apr 27 19:20:15 2001
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:58:46 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: KSBs available
To: LART list 
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Aleph One are pleased to announce that KSBs (rev1) are now available to
complement LARTs. We have an initial batch of 30.

They are supplied with the CPLDs pre-programmed but we are also keeping stock
of isp-download cables so you can change or update the CPLD contents in
future if you need to. So far I've actually checked the sound output (It
plays the spam song very nicely :-), and the IDE so you can have an
autonomous LART. 

Boards, including postage cost GBP 250, (EU ~396, $~375) (in the UK) 
 GBP 214, EU ~340 $~153  (in the EU)
 GBP 215  EU ~342 $~155  (elsewhere)

details, as ever at http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/

Ethernet boards had slight hiccup with board production but they too should
be avilable in a few weeks.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May  4 22:06:23 2001
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From: "Leon Heller" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: LART enclosure
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:05:25 
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Having just received the KSB from Aleph One for the LART main board I got 
from them a couple of months ago, I started looking around for a suitable 
enclosure.

Since I am interested in building a wearable computer based on the LART, I 
really needed as small a case as possible. I couldn't find anything suitable 
in the Farnell or RS catalogues, but I struck lucky with Maplin Electronics. 
Their MB3 ABS box (stock number LH22) is about 115mm x 100 mm X 45 mm, and 
is just the right size in the horizontal plane, but twice as high as it 
needs to be.

All that was involved in fitting the LART was a couple of holes in the base 
for the LART/KSB assembly (mounted on nylon pillars with a couple of M3 x 30 
mm screws, and another two holes for the power supply lead and the RS-232 
connector and lead. At present, I'm using a Palm IIIx as the user interface, 
with a Yuasa NP2.6 sealed lead-acid battery as the power source. The LART 
and Palm will go in one jacket pocket, and the battery in the other pocket, 
to balance things.

I'll be making my own chord keyboard, and attaching a head-mounted display, 
when I find something suitable.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: (work): +44 1327 357824 (home): +44 1327 359058 
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page: 
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller IRISYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk






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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May  4 23:56:24 2001
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Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 23:48:29 +0000
To: Leon Heller 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: LART enclosure
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Leon,

It sounds like an great project! If you get some
pictures made of the setup I would be interested in
seeing what it looks like.

		-Bill

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:05:25PM +0000, Leon Heller wrote:
> Having just received the KSB from Aleph One for the LART main board I got 
> from them a couple of months ago, I started looking around for a suitable 
> enclosure.
> 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May  5 00:23:06 2001
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>
>Leon,
>
>It sounds like an great project! If you get some
>pictures made of the setup I would be interested in
>seeing what it looks like.

I'll put some pics on my web page in a few days.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: (work): +44 1327 357824 (home): +44 1327 359058 
Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page: 
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller IRISYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk






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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun May  6 01:24:38 2001
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From: Jeff Davies 
Organization: Hipparchus Systems Ltd
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Simputer
Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 00:11:33 +0100
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What do folks on the list make of the Simputer  (www.simputer.org) which is
a StrongArm based PDA 32m ram, 16 m flash. Intended for distribution to
poor countries like many people in india, africa etc.

The design is GPL (materials to appear in say 2 days).
Of course, compared with LART, it doesn't have:

VGA, IDE, 10baseT. Still, interesting tho.

Jeff Davies.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 07:54:14 2001
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Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 15:50:59 +1000
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From: John Windle 
Subject: Blob config problem: Newbie
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I'm trying to get blob-1.0.8-pre2 to configure for a cross compiling 
enviroment; destination is an SA1110. I'm using the bash shell, on a Redhat 
6.2 system.

I follow the instructions in the readme under the heading "Configuring and 
compiling the package" but when I run the configure program and it reports 
that it has selected gcc as the compiler to use.

I set and export the CC enviroment variable as instructed. Strangely enough 
it collects the OBJCOPY program correctly.

I've tried this as a user and as root, same results.

What have I missed?

Any help appreciated. Apologies if this is the wrong list

jon

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 13:39:09 2001
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:38:58 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: John Windle 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Blob config problem: Newbie
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On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:50:59PM +1000, John Windle wrote:
> I'm trying to get blob-1.0.8-pre2 to configure for a cross compiling 
> enviroment; destination is an SA1110. I'm using the bash shell, on a Redhat 
> 6.2 system.

Should work.

> I follow the instructions in the readme under the heading "Configuring and 
> compiling the package" but when I run the configure program and it reports 
> that it has selected gcc as the compiler to use.
> 
> I set and export the CC enviroment variable as instructed. Strangely enough 
> it collects the OBJCOPY program correctly.

That's because the autoconf macro to check for objcopy is not as smart
as the one that selects the correct compiler.

> I've tried this as a user and as root, same results.

No need to try this as root, compiling doesn't need any special
privileges.

> What have I missed?

You are probably bitten by the configure cache. Remove the file
config.cache and try again.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 15:32:44 2001
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:32:21 +0200
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Using PS2/SIMM/(SO-)DIMM as RAM
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Hallo,

is it possible to use either PS2/SIMM/(SO-)DIMM Ram as Ram for a Lart-like
ARM design? At least DIMM Ram is much easier to get than single DRAM chips
and even if only one half is used (DIMM is 64 bit wide versus 32 bit for the
ARM) I think it is also much cheaper. Farnell has PS2/SIMM sockets, and I
have seen DIMM sockets with other catalogue distributors. However I didn't
see SO-DIMM sockets ...

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 18:24:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:23:55 +0200
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Subject: Trizeps3
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Hallo,

I hope my question regarding other SA11X0 hardware is adequate on this
forum: 

Did anybody have a look at the Trizeps3
http://www.keith-koep.com/trizeps.html
and can share experiences?

PS: Regarding my last question about using standard DIMM RAM, I realized
that the SA1100 doesn't work with SDRAM, but the SA1110 does. However the
SA1110 package (MBGA with 1.0 mm pitch) defeats building that thing even in
a well equipped laboratory.

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 19:23:53 2001
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 <15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:22:49 +0200
To: Uwe Bonnes 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, QCLAM@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de,
        war: Re:Camac@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
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At 10:59 +0200 25-04-2001, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
>     J.D.> What kind of data ? How much ? What protocol ? Is it important
>     J.D.> that all the chips are sampled at the same time ?
>
>The data we aquired is triggered external and is a 16 bit time difference
>with a maximum range of about 10 us. There are about 960 chanals, but as
>only local groups trigger, there are "only" 84 TDC (Time To Digital TDC-GP1
>(http://www.acam.de)) chips to be read out and the (encoded) values of what
>channels triggered plus some householding. So readout can be sequential and
>the device will probably be memory mapped to the CPU address space.
>Trigger events will come with a max rate of about 20 kHz, events coming
>earlier will be rejected.

That amounts to slightly less than 4 MByte/sec, correct ? This is 
quite doable, especially if you could group the GP1s in clusters of 
four, so they fill up the entire (32-bit) databus.

>
>     >> - build a block of data and send it away on some serial device,
>     >> probably with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.
>
>     J.D.> Datarates ? Any control/handshake required, or just plain
>     J.D.> streaming ?  Is TAXI still alive ? Would HotLink
>     J.D.> (http://www.cypress.com/hotlink/) do ?
>
>Hotlink was the word I didn't remember in my mail yesterday. Let's go for
>the 200 MBaud Rate. Gigastar might also be an option...

HotLink seems to be on its own little proprietary island. Look at the 
LVDS offerings from National (http://www.national.com/appinfo/lvds/) 
and others; they offer speed, noise immunity and a standardised 
electrical layer. Most modern FPGAs talk LVDS too. And it's quite 
easy to interface to a LART.

>
>Data block size:
>84 16 bit TDC data plus position plus overhead = around 500 byte

That much overhead ? 84*16 bit == 168 bytes, right ?

>     >> Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time
>     >> critical, and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the
>     >> processor board.
>
>     J.D.> Please elaborate.
>
>As the number of chanels impies, with each chanel coming in as a
>differential signal, I can't put everything on one board. The only sensible
>partitioning is 6 TDC boards, probably in some VME 9u crate. With the scaler
>I think this is a quite loaded bus.

Should work yes. Don't forget to put a bus buffer between the SA bus 
and the rest or the capacitive load will kill your system performance.

>     >> Would the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus? Has
>     >> anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice
>     >> (schematics)?
>
>     J.D.> Be more specific; I see a number of scenarios where an ARM/LART
>     J.D.> would make sense (and work), and another class where a Pentium SBC
>     J.D.> is called for.
>
>What I want:
>- have an IO Interface that is quite easy to implement
>- Have a Toolchain availale on Linux
>
>What I don't want:
>- reinvent the wheel
>- Step up the learning curve for a PCI interface for _this_ project
>
>So also I need to reimplement a controller PCB layout with the ARM/LART, I can
>get away from PCI with the ARM. In my understanding a X86 SBC only has ISA
>or PCI, and ISA is to slow and PCI to complicated. Correct me if I am wrong.

Looking good so far. Using the regular SRAM interface on the SA you 
can easily get  >100MB/sec bursts on a 32-bit bus. And if you do use 
LVDS, the migration to an FPGA with a PCI interface is an easy step.

JDB.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                      -- Arthur Kasspe
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:13:07 +0200
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: Uwe Bonnes , lart@lart.tudelft.nl,
        QCLAM@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de,
        war: Re:Camac@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
	<15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
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>>>>> "J.D." == J D Bakker  writes:

...

    J.D.> That amounts to slightly less than 4 MByte/sec, correct ? This is
    J.D.> quite doable, especially if you could group the GP1s in clusters
    J.D.> of four, so they fill up the entire (32-bit) databus.

Yes, probbably a FPGA between the data bus and the GP1s will do that

...
    J.D.> HotLink seems to be on its own little proprietary island. Look at
    J.D.> the LVDS offerings from National
    J.D.> (http://www.national.com/appinfo/lvds/) and others; they offer
    J.D.> speed, noise immunity and a standardised electrical layer. Most
    J.D.> modern FPGAs talk LVDS too. And it's quite easy to interface to a
    J.D.> LART.

LVDS isn't an option for a transmission over 50 meter. Isolation by a
fiber wire will be a plus.

    >>  Data block size: 84 16 bit TDC data plus position plus overhead =
    >> around 500 byte

    J.D.> That much overhead ? 84*16 bit == 168 bytes, right ?

The rough estimation for the mail had some margins...

...
    J.D.> Should work yes. Don't forget to put a bus buffer between the SA
    J.D.> bus and the rest or the capacitive load will kill your system
    J.D.> performance.

Good design practice...

...

    J.D.> you can easily get >100MB/sec bursts on a 32-bit bus. And if you
    J.D.> do use LVDS, the migration to an FPGA with a PCI interface is an
    J.D.> easy step.

Thanks for your help!

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 22:05:00 2001
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From: Raphael "DephiNit" Pereira 
To: LART Mailing list 
Subject: Ethernet status
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:31:06 -0300
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Hello,

I'm working in a data acquisition project that has just began. In the first 
phase of this project I have to find what I call the "Base System", which 
consists of a embedded computer capable of processing high volumes of data.
This Base System must have the following characteristics:
    1 - small size;
    2 - expandability;
    3 - communicative (LAN);

This Base System will be put on a car and I need it to communicate to other 
computer, so i can get the data.

These requirements suggested LART, but I have a few concerns: the ethernet 
and the KSB.
What I want to know is the status of these two boards and how long it's going 
to take to a hardware release?

I've just downloaded the last mailing list archive and read all the messages 
that contained the word "ethernet", so I know that there are some solutions 
for the ethernet problem (i.e. the PCMCIA and the USB). I'd be pleased if I 
could get a report from someone who did it.

The real problem is that i don't have too much time for deciding the hardware 
I'm going to use as my Base System (appr. 2 weeks) and I would like it A LOT 
to be LART.

-- 
  Raphael "DephiNit" Pereira
            -=-*-=-*-=-
      dephinit@softhome.net
            -=-*-=-*-=-

Debian GNU/Linux Addicted User
    Use it, Abuse it. It's Free!!!

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 23:00:03 2001
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 <15094.62403.506228.381206@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
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 <15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 
 <15094.62403.506228.381206@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:59:28 +0200
To: Uwe Bonnes 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 21:13 +0200 07-05-2001, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
>  >>>>> "J.D." == J D Bakker  writes:
>     J.D.> HotLink seems to be on its own little proprietary island. Look at
>     J.D.> the LVDS offerings from National
>     J.D.> (http://www.national.com/appinfo/lvds/) and others; they offer
>     J.D.> speed, noise immunity and a standardised electrical layer. Most
>     J.D.> modern FPGAs talk LVDS too. And it's quite easy to interface to a
>     J.D.> LART.
>
>LVDS isn't an option for a transmission over 50 meter.

True enough (although I think that LVDS @ ~10MBps works just fine at 
those distances)

>  Isolation by a
>fiber wire will be a plus.

Agilent (formerly HP) has lots of solutions in that area, from 10 to 
1000MBit/sec. Their interface chips look much like HotLink/LVDS: 
clock and data in at one end, clock and data out on the other end. 
Farnell (http://www.farnell.com/) has most of them in qty 1, albeit 
at elevated prices.

It's a shame that 50m is a bit longish for 1mm plastic fiber at those 
speeds; if your environment is what I think it is plastic might be 
better than glass.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer. Press
any key to reboot."
                                          -- Arne Damvin in asr
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 23:12:50 2001
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:12:10 +0200
To: Raphael "DephiNit" Pereira 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Ethernet status
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>Hello,
>
>I'm working in a data acquisition project that has just began. In the first
>phase of this project I have to find what I call the "Base System", which
>consists of a embedded computer capable of processing high volumes of data.
>This Base System must have the following characteristics:
>     1 - small size;
>     2 - expandability;
>     3 - communicative (LAN);
>
>This Base System will be put on a car and I need it to communicate to other
>computer, so i can get the data.
>
>These requirements suggested LART, but I have a few concerns: the ethernet
>and the KSB.
>What I want to know is the status of these two boards and how long it's going
>to take to a hardware release?

The KSB is available through Aleph1; I haven't gotten around to doing 
a formal hardware release yet. As far as I know they are doing a 
ether run now.

The current issue with Enet is (still) that it's transmit only ATM. 
To me it looks like a software problem (but then I did the hardware 
so I may be biased ;-). Other folks have the StrongARM running with 
the same Ether chip though, and last time I saw Erik he was making 
noises like 'hey why is the kernel driver not reaching the point 
where receive is enabled'. Oh and getting Ether working is a high 
priority for an important demo of ours.

JDB.
-- 
"There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering."  It starts
  with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops
  utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal
  pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of
  the non-gaseous byproducts."

  (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e)
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May  7 23:45:42 2001
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	Mon, 7 May 2001 23:45:37 +0200
From: Uwe Bonnes 
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Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:45:37 +0200
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
	<15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
	<15094.62403.506228.381206@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
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>>>>> "J.D." == J D Bakker  writes:

...
    J.D.> Agilent (formerly HP) has lots of solutions in that area, from 10
    J.D.> to 1000MBit/sec. Their interface chips look much like
    J.D.> HotLink/LVDS: clock and data in at one end, clock and data out on
    J.D.> the other end.  Farnell (http://www.farnell.com/) has most of them
    J.D.> in qty 1, albeit at elevated prices.

Do you have some chip designators at hand? The agilent web page isn't easy
to search... 

    J.D.> ...

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 00:05:52 2001
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References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 
 <15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 
 <15094.62403.506228.381206@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 
 <15095.6017.789953.132786@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:05:46 +0200
To: Uwe Bonnes 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 23:45 +0200 07-05-2001, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
>  >>>>> "J.D." == J D Bakker  writes:
>     J.D.> Agilent (formerly HP) has lots of solutions in that area, from 10
>     J.D.> to 1000MBit/sec. Their interface chips look much like
>     J.D.> HotLink/LVDS: clock and data in at one end, clock and data out on
>     J.D.> the other end.  Farnell (http://www.farnell.com/) has most of them
>     J.D.> in qty 1, albeit at elevated prices.
>
>Do you have some chip designators at hand? The agilent web page isn't easy
>to search...

Try

http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com/cgi-bin/morpheus/networkProducts/productList.jsp

or look for products starting with HFBR, HFCT or HDMP.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From: Bari Ari 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Orcad schematics and gerbers for Lart
References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
		
		<15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
		
		<15094.62403.506228.381206@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
		 <15095.6017.789953.132786@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
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Would anyone like to have Lart schematics in Orcad format as well as 
gerber files?


Bari Ari                         email: bari@onelabs.com 

O.N.E. Technologies
1505 Old Deerfield Road        tel: 773-252-9607
Highland Park, IL 60035        fax: 773-252-9604

http://www.onelabs.com



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 13:04:36 2001
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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:45:04 +1000
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: John Windle 
Subject: Flashing the kernel & ramdisk; Newbie
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I have blob compiled and down in flash. But it isn't clear to me how I go 
about getting the kernel and ramdisk down there.

I downloaded the kernel with blob and tried to use the flash command, and 
it told me that it wouldn't do it using internal flash; just as the readme 
file said it wouldn't. I tried it as that section might have been specific 
to the LART; I could hope.

The jFlash utility documentation doesn't help.

So if anyone could send me a pointer to how I can get the kernel and 
ramdisk into flash, on the SA1110 Assabet I have the daughter board 
attached if that makes a difference,  so that blob will boot them I'd 
appreciate it.

Thanks in Advance

jon

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 13:04:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:26:25 +1000
To: Erik Mouw 
From: John Windle 
Subject: Re: Blob config problem: Newbie
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
In-Reply-To: <20010507133857.H18405@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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Erik

> > What have I missed?
>
>You are probably bitten by the configure cache. Remove the file
>config.cache and try again.

Right on the money. Many thanks.

Working through the readme file and it all seems to be happening.

One thing you might like to add under the Assabet section is for the SA 
1110 with the daughter board attached the serial port that the output will 
appear on is the one on the SA-1110 not the one on the daughter board, 
regardless of the switch settings of Switch Bank 2 (SW2) on the daughter board.

jon

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 14:25:12 2001
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From: "Wisse, M" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: Flashing the kernel & ramdisk; Newbie
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:27:33 +0200 
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Jon,

As I just encountered the same problem, Erik told me to read Wookey's
message:

http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/list/list.php3?arc=lart&sd=1&sm=4&sy=2001&ed=31&e
m=5&ey=2001&sort=t&inl=&mid=Marcel-1.50-0426103600-965h%2BTy%40chewy.aleph1.
co.uk#body

and use the blob version 2.02. It works for me, my lart is now up and
running completely.


Martijn Wisse
http://www.wbmt.tudelft.nl/mms/dbl
m.wisse@wbmt.tudelft.nl



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	John Windle [SMTP:jon@phitz.au.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 08, 2001 12:45 PM
> To:	lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> Subject:	Flashing the kernel & ramdisk; Newbie
> 
> I have blob compiled and down in flash. But it isn't clear to me how I go 
> about getting the kernel and ramdisk down there.
> 
> I downloaded the kernel with blob and tried to use the flash command, and 
> it told me that it wouldn't do it using internal flash; just as the readme
> 
> file said it wouldn't. I tried it as that section might have been specific
> 
> to the LART; I could hope.
> 
> The jFlash utility documentation doesn't help.
> 
> So if anyone could send me a pointer to how I can get the kernel and 
> ramdisk into flash, on the SA1110 Assabet I have the daughter board 
> attached if that makes a difference,  so that blob will boot them I'd 
> appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> 
> jon
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 15:12:18 2001
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From: "TREVOR WHITE" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: PC104/PCI
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:11:28 
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Hello all.

After finding out a little about lart I am very interested to get a system 
up and running. Currently at work there is the need for a real time frame 
grabbing unit.

The current system interfaces a BrookTree chip for the frame grabbing via a 
PCI bus. How difficult is it to implement PCI with lartor are there better 
methods of frame grabbing?

Are there any 'hard-time' kernels for the lart boards yet?

I hope my questions are not too silly - I have little experience in such 
systems.

Any help/pointers would be most appreciated.

Many thanks

Trevor White


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 15:26:33 2001
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:22:44 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Flashing the kernel & ramdisk; Newbie
To: John Windle 
cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010508203742.00ab2f00@mail.optusnet.com.au>
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On Tue 08 May, John Windle wrote:
> I have blob compiled and down in flash. But it isn't clear to me how I go 
> about getting the kernel and ramdisk down there.
> 
> I downloaded the kernel with blob and tried to use the flash command, and 
> it told me that it wouldn't do it using internal flash; just as the readme 
> file said it wouldn't. I tried it as that section might have been specific 
> to the LART; I could hope.
> 
> So if anyone could send me a pointer to how I can get the kernel and 
> ramdisk into flash, on the SA1110 Assabet I have the daughter board 
> attached if that makes a difference,  so that blob will boot them I'd 
> appreciate it.

Hmm, I haven't tried this yet on assabet, so I'm not actually sure what the
correct answer is, but it's probably worth trying the basically-working blob
2.02 version at http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/blob2.02.tgz which is
capable of flashing into internal flash.

I started checkling the assabet support but didn't get very far so I'm not
sure if it will still work. It shouldn't be hard to fix it if it has become
broken. More significantly I've no idea if the internal-flash writing is
enough the same for assabet that it can be expected to work....given an
affirmative on this then it'd be work seeing if it works.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 15:34:51 2001
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:30:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Ethernet status
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
cc: LART list ,
        Raphael DephiNit Pereira 
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
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On Mon 07 May, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Raphael DephiNit Pereira wrote:
> > These requirements suggested LART, but I have a few concerns: the
> > ethernet and the KSB. What I want to know is the status of these two
> > boards and how long it's going to take to a hardware release?
> 
> The KSB is available through Aleph1; I haven't gotten around to doing 
> a formal hardware release yet. As far as I know they are doing a 
> ether run now.

Just to confirm the current state of play - Yes KSBs are now in stock, and
the ethernet cards are working their way through the system. Boards are done,
parts are getting done and we're awaiting a build slot. Current estimate
is that ether1 boards will be here in 2-3 weeks. ether4 boards shortly after.

Is anyone else mad keen to sort the drivers for these? Hopefully Erik will
have it going by then, but if not we'll have to do some fettling....

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 15:38:05 2001
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References: 
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:37:54 +0200
To: "TREVOR WHITE" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: PC104/PCI
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 13:11 +0200 08-05-2001, TREVOR WHITE wrote:
>Hello all.
>
>After finding out a little about lart I am very interested to get a 
>system up and running. Currently at work there is the need for a 
>real time frame grabbing unit.
>
>The current system interfaces a BrookTree chip for the frame 
>grabbing via a PCI bus. How difficult is it to implement PCI with 
>lartor are there better methods of frame grabbing?

PCI is overkill. Look at the SA-1100 Multimedia Reference Board 
(http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/schems/mult_hw.htm); they 
have video in on a SA-1100 platform.

>Are there any 'hard-time' kernels for the lart boards yet?

You mean hard realtime ? I know people on the RTLinux-list 
(rtl@rtlinux.org) were talking about it; I have no idea about the 
status. OTOH with FIFOs (as the abovementioned board does it) you 
have some leeway latency-wise.

JDB.
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 17:10:14 2001
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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:06:20 -0500
From: Bari Ari 
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Subject: Re: PC104/PCI
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J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 13:11 +0200 08-05-2001, TREVOR WHITE wrote:
> 
>> Hello all.
>> 
>> After finding out a little about lart I am very interested to get a 
>> system up and running. Currently at work there is the need for a real 
>> time frame grabbing unit.
>> 
>> The current system interfaces a BrookTree chip for the frame grabbing 
>> via a PCI bus. How difficult is it to implement PCI with lartor are 
>> there better methods of frame grabbing?
> 
> 
> PCI is overkill. Look at the SA-1100 Multimedia Reference Board 
> (http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/schems/mult_hw.htm); they 
> have video in on a SA-1100 platform.
> 
If you end up really needing PCI for your frame grabbing and image 
processing, take a look at using the Intel SA-1110 along with the ITE 
8152 PCI bridge. The bridge is a low cost ASIC that bridges the SDRAM 
(so you're not stuck with EDO) interface of the SA-1110 to PCI bus along 
with 2 USB, serial and LPC for less than half the cost of the SA-1111. 
If you need reference schematics let me know, they are openly available 
like the Lart.

Bari Ari wrote:

Bari Ari                         email: bari@onelabs.com 

O.N.E. Technologies
1505 Old Deerfield Road        tel: 773-252-9607
Highland Park, IL 60035        fax: 773-252-9604

http://www.onelabs.com


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From: "Leon Heller" 
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Subject: Re: LART enclosure
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:35:13 
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>
>I've been on the search for a HMD for a while and have recently found a
>supplier for the panels used in professional HMDs,
>they can be found at http://www.kopin.com and they offer different
>resolutions and color or greyscale options, the price of the panels
>is really low :-)

Thanks, they look interesting. The tricky thing is the optics to go with 
them.

Leon

--
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Email:leon_heller@hotmail.com My web page: 
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller IRISYS Ltd: http://www.irisys.co.uk






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From: Roland Kaercher 
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On Tuesday, May 8, 2001, at 06:35 PM, Leon Heller wrote:

>>
>> I've been on the search for a HMD for a while and have recently found a
>> supplier for the panels used in professional HMDs,
>> they can be found at http://www.kopin.com and they offer different
>> resolutions and color or greyscale options, the price of the panels
>> is really low :-)
>
> Thanks, they look interesting. The tricky thing is the optics to go 
> with them.
>

The monocular of an old camcorder should fit, for the mounting to be 
flexible I'd
suggest some sort of flexible pipe like the ones used to transfer the 
cooling fluid
in stationary metal drilling machines to the hole.

--
Roland Kaercher -  Heinrich Bauer Produktions KG  - 20077 Hamburg
Publishing Support Center  - Server & Concepts -  Burchardstr. 11
Tel: +49-40-3019-5518 Fax: +49-40-3019-5668 Mail: rkaercher@hbv.de
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May  8 20:54:37 2001
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:54:31 +0200
To: "Leon Heller" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LART enclosure
Cc: ich@rolandkaercher.de, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 18:35 +0200 08-05-2001, Leon Heller wrote:
>>I've been on the search for a HMD for a while and have recently found a
>>supplier for the panels used in professional HMDs,
>>they can be found at http://www.kopin.com and they offer different
>>resolutions and color or greyscale options, the price of the panels
>>is really low :-)
>
>Thanks, they look interesting.

'Interesting' is the correct word.

I actually have two of the color 320x240 devices sitting on my desk 
(courtesy of Thad Starner and his band of researchers, thanks guys). 
I had a PDF describing the display unit, downloaded a year or so ago, 
and used this to design a PCB to interface it to the LART. After 
finishing this, I decided to have a look at the Kopin site to see if 
a new rev of the docs was available, as some of the specs were a bit 
fuzzy.

I found the new datasheet all right.

The old and the new datasheet have two things in common: they both 
claim to cover the CyberDisplay 320c, and both were written in 
English. That was about it. The new docs contain timing diagrams that 
were absent in the old rev, and the other way around. The new docs 
mention an integrated DLL. To top it off, the docs disagree on the 
device pinout. Including power and ground lines.

Of course there is no way to find out which rev of the docs map to 
the displays I have. Later I heard nightmareish stories of other 
people who wanted to apply the displays but failed miserably.

I'm now looking at http://www.microdisplay.com/ ; their products look 
a bit saner.

>The tricky thing is the optics to go with them.

Their devel kits include the optics IIRC.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May  9 08:41:51 2001
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Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 01:32:01 -0500
From: Bari Ari 
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Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	 
	 <15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> 
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On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:51:54PM +0200, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> Hallo,

>Hi Uwe, long time no see! 
>(for the rest of you: Uwe and I both hacked on DOSemu :)

> for a project here, I have approximate these task
> - wait for an event
> - gather data from around 100 chips sources ( spread on 6 boards,
>   at least double Euro Format)
> - build a block of data and send it away on some serial device, probably
>   with a fiberinterface like the revised TAXI chips.
> - wait for the next event
> 
> - another I/O module for test purposed
> 
> Gathering the data, building the block and sending it away is time critical,
> and the IO bus quite loaded with 7 I/O devices and the processor board.

>So if I understand it correctly the task is to gather data, process it,
>and move it to the next device.

> So I would prefer a rather "slow" 32 bit wide data bus to a faster smaller
> bus . However I haven't seen the LART ( or another design with the SA-1100)
> attached to a wide and loaded bus.

>What do you mean with a wide bus? Wider than 32 bits?

> Does using the Arm make sense here?

>Depends.

>If you want a simple bus, the SA1100/SA1110 makes sense: no PCI, so you
>can easily connect simple devices. In theory PCI is also possible, but
>it needs extra glue logic, and you would be the first one to use it
>with Linux AFAIK. If you need PCI, you'd better use the SA110 with its
>21285 companion chip (like the Corel Netwinder), or the new Intel 80200
>XScale with the 80310 companion chip.

>If you need processing power, the SA1100/SA1110 also makes sense. On
>average it is as fast as a Pentium 200, but for some applications it
>really outperforms a Pentium (Jan-Derk Bakker has been working on FFT
>code that ran as fast as on a DSP, and I think his current code is even
>faster). However, if you need floating point, the ARM family is
>definitively not the way to go. For more processing power, use the
>XScale; for less processing power, use another CPU from the ARM family.

> Would the 32-Bit (PCMCIA) Data Bus Operation be used for the bus?

>To avoid confusion, let me explain: 32-bit PCMCIA doesn't exist, PCMCIA
>is always 16 bit and it more or less works like the good old ISA bus.
>The newer 32 bit PC cards are Cardbus, which is actually a PCI variant.

>The SA1100 doesn't support PCI, so Cardbus is not an option. However,
>it can do 32 bit read and writes in its PCMCIA memory space, and simple
>32 bit devices mapped over there will work. Simple 32 bit means: 32 bit
>address bus, 32 bit data bus, and some selection signals.

> Has anybody done something similar and wants to offer advice
> (schematics)?

>We do have a couple of boards with 32 bit IO in development (IIRC), but
>I don't have the schematics right now. I'm sure Jan-Derk can elaborate
>on this, but unfortunately he's currently visiting a conference until
>end of this week. In the mean time you have to deal with me :)


>Erik
If you want PCI with the SA-1110 use the StrongARM PCI 8152 bridge by 
ITE. It also has 2 USB ports and a LPC interface. It cost far less ($12) 
than the SA-1111 ($25) so it makes sense for SA-1110 USB applications as 
well. The 8152 will also support the SA-2 due out in a few weeks. 
SA-1110 and 8152 outperforms the SA110 and 21285 bridge as well as you 
can use SDRAM with the SA-1110 so you're not stuck with having to use 
EDO like with the SA-110 and SA-1100. If you need schematics for a 
SA-1110 with 8152 design let me know.

For XScale (80200) you can get VHDL files from Intel and then use a 
Xilinx Spartan-II with a PCI logic core to get away from the 80312 
memory controller and 64 bit PCI  bridge. Schematics for this design is 
also available.

Bari



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May  9 09:54:29 2001
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
In-Reply-To: <3AF8E461.9070205@onelabs.com>
References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
	<15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
	
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>>>>> "Bari" == Bari Ari  writes:

    Bari> ...
    Bari> If you want PCI with the SA-1110 use the StrongARM PCI 8152 bridge
    Bari> by ITE. It also has 2 USB ports and a LPC interface. It cost far
    Bari> less ($12) than the SA-1111 ($25) so it makes sense for SA-1110
    Bari> USB applications as well. The 8152 will also support the SA-2 due
    Bari> out in a few weeks.  SA-1110 and 8152 outperforms the SA110 and
    Bari> 21285 bridge as well as you can use SDRAM with the SA-1110 so
    Bari> you're not stuck with having to use EDO like with the SA-110 and
    Bari> SA-1100. If you need schematics for a SA-1110 with 8152 design let
    Bari> me know.

    Bari> For XScale (80200) you can get VHDL files from Intel and then use
    Bari> a Xilinx Spartan-II with a PCI logic core to get away from the
    Bari> 80312 memory controller and 64 bit PCI bridge. Schematics for this
    Bari> design is also available.

Could you drop me the schematics ( preferred postscript or eagle)

Thanks
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May  9 10:10:39 2001
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From: "TREVOR WHITE" 
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Subject: 8152 schematics
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:06:04 
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I would appreciate a copy of the schematics for PCI using 8152.

Many thanks

Trevor White
_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May  9 16:26:07 2001
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References: <15077.48442.972361.999532@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 
 <15078.37377.767256.188407@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
 	<3AF8E461.9070205@onelabs.com>
 <15096.63217.995877.840165@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:17:46 +0200
To: Bari Ari 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
Cc: Uwe Bonnes , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>  >>>>> "Bari" == Bari Ari  writes:
>
>     Bari> ...
>     Bari> If you want PCI with the SA-1110 use the StrongARM PCI 8152 bridge
>     Bari> by ITE. It also has 2 USB ports and a LPC interface. It cost far
>     Bari> less ($12) than the SA-1111 ($25) so it makes sense for SA-1110
>     Bari> USB applications as well. The 8152 will also support the SA-2 due
>     Bari> out in a few weeks.  SA-1110 and 8152 outperforms the SA110 and
>     Bari> 21285 bridge as well as you can use SDRAM with the SA-1110 so
>     Bari> you're not stuck with having to use EDO like with the SA-110 and
>     Bari> SA-1100. If you need schematics for a SA-1110 with 8152 design let
>     Bari> me know.
>
>     Bari> For XScale (80200) you can get VHDL files from Intel and then use
>     Bari> a Xilinx Spartan-II with a PCI logic core to get away from the
>     Bari> 80312 memory controller and 64 bit PCI bridge. Schematics for this
>     Bari> design is also available.
>
>Could you drop me the schematics ( preferred postscript or eagle)

Two (possibly conflicting) observations:

1) Bari: would you mind putting these schematics up somewhere before 
this list is flooded for requests ? I am interested as well; if you 
like we could host the on the LART site (with appropriate credits, of 
course).

2) Everyone else: PCI is not always what you want in a situation 
where a StrongARM makes sense. The SA is at its best in lean, low 
power situations; PCI doesn't always match with that. More 
importantly: the SA (and I believe the XScale) are not cache coherent 
wrt what happens on the PCI bus; this means that PCI DMA can only 
work to non-cacheable memory, or your app/driver must implement cache 
flushing before each and every DMA access.

JDB.
-- 
"There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering."  It starts
  with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops
  utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal
  pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of
  the non-gaseous byproducts."

  (Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e)
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J.D. Bakker wrote:

> 
> Two (possibly conflicting) observations:
> 
> 1) Bari: would you mind putting these schematics up somewhere before 
> this list is flooded for requests ? I am interested as well; if you 
> like we could host the on the LART site (with appropriate credits, of 
> course).
> 
> 2) Everyone else: PCI is not always what you want in a situation where 
> a StrongARM makes sense. The SA is at its best in lean, low power 
> situations; PCI doesn't always match with that. More importantly: the 
> SA (and I believe the XScale) are not cache coherent wrt what happens 
> on the PCI bus; this means that PCI DMA can only work to non-cacheable 
> memory, or your app/driver must implement cache flushing before each 
> and every DMA access.
> 
> JDB.

The 8152 supports PCI bus mastering for up to 4 masters directly. Each 
master can access up to 64MB of the SA-1110 SDRAM memory. If a PCI bus 
master DMAs into the shared 64MB memory space then the SA-1110 cache 
will not be coherent over whatever memory space was written over, this 
is true in any situation with multiple bus masters. But this is easily 
dealt with in software. The 8152 also has a LPC interface so you can 
also take advantage of low cost PC super I/O devices. It also has 2 USB 
host ports so there is now another option to the SA-1111.

The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take 
advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI 
devices. We're using it now in applications with multiple ethernet 
controllers for bridge/router/firewalls and also PDA type devices.

A  SA-1110 / 8152 solution is also less expensive in lower speed 
applications compared to using Duron and Celeron along with a chipset 
and it does well against SOCs like the NSC Geodes, STPC, VR-Mips and SH-4.

Bari Ari                         email: bari@onelabs.com 

O.N.E. Technologies
1505 Old Deerfield Road        tel: 773-252-9607
Highland Park, IL 60035        fax: 773-252-9604

http://www.onelabs.com


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Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:30:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
To: Bari Ari 
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On Wed 09 May, Bari Ari wrote:
> The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take 
> advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI 
> devices. 

This seems to me to be the most significant thing that pushes people towards
PCI. (The choice of 100Mbit ethernet chips that don't have PCI interfaces was
precisely one last time I looked, and that took some looking).

Bari, do you have comparative power-consumptions for the SA1110+8152,
SA1110+SA1111 and SA1100+2064VE (LART+KSB) approaches. This is usually the
other really important thing along with cost/availability. I realise this is
a rather vague question, as it depends what you hang off them, but just some
sort of subjective idea would be interesting...

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Wookey wrote:

> On Wed 09 May, Bari Ari wrote:
> 
>> The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take 
>> advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI 
>> devices. 
> 
> This seems to me to be the most significant thing that pushes people towards
> PCI. (The choice of 100Mbit ethernet chips that don't have PCI interfaces was
> precisely one last time I looked, and that took some looking).

There are a few non PCI 10/100 Ethernet controllers out there. SMSC and 
Macronix both offer a few but drivers are still scarce for Linux.

> Bari, do you have comparative power-consumptions for the SA1110+8152,
> SA1110+SA1111 and SA1100+2064VE (LART+KSB) approaches. This is usually the
> other really important thing along with cost/availability. I realise this is
> a rather vague question, as it depends what you hang off them, but just some
> sort of subjective idea would be interesting...
> 
> Wookey

There is also a 8153 that doesn't have the USB and AC97 codec if you 
don't need them, this may knock off a few wasted mA. The 8152 on it's 
own is very low power and has many power management features. It's like 
comparing apples to oranges though since it does all depend on how much 
activity is on the PCI bus. We're using them for handheld and webpad 
designss and the low power consumption is great. I wish there was lower 
power backlight for LCDs today.

Bari Ari                         email: bari@onelabs.com 

O.N.E. Technologies
1505 Old Deerfield Road        tel: 773-252-9607
Highland Park, IL 60035        fax: 773-252-9604

http://www.onelabs.com


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Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Wookey" 
To: "Bari Ari" 
Cc: "LART list" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition


> On Wed 09 May, Bari Ari wrote:
> > The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take
> > advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI
> > devices.
>
> This seems to me to be the most significant thing that pushes people
towards
> PCI. (The choice of 100Mbit ethernet chips that don't have PCI interfaces
was
> precisely one last time I looked, and that took some looking).

It would seem to me that there are plenty of pcmcia devices, wich should
be easily adaptable to suit a lart.

regards
Ralf van de Ven


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Wookey" 
To: "Bari Ari" 
Cc: "LART list" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition


> On Wed 09 May, Bari Ari wrote:
> > The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take
> > advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI
> > devices.
>
> This seems to me to be the most significant thing that pushes people
towards
> PCI. (The choice of 100Mbit ethernet chips that don't have PCI interfaces
was
> precisely one last time I looked, and that took some looking).

It would seem to me that there are plenty of pcmcia devices, wich should
be easily adaptable to suit a lart.

regards
Ralf van de Ven


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 10 23:45:42 2001
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Hi all,

Ethernet works.

As usual, it was a very simple bug. Due to less-than-clear default 
component labeling of our CAD package (and me not cleaning up after 
it), R1 and R2 were swapped, which the CS8900 doesn't like too much. 
In the end (right about when I was planning to scrap the current 
design and do a new one) Erik found the bug when he was probing every 
single pad of the Ether chip with an Ohmmeter. Kudos to him for 
persistence in the face of failure.

Oh well. As Alf used to say: "Well, don't we feel foolish !"

JDB.
-- 
If you see a long line of rats streaming off of a ship, the correct 
assumption is *not* "gosh, I bet that's a real nice boat now that 
those rats are gone".
                               -- Mike Sphar in the Monastery
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 01:48:07 2001
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From: "Brown, Aaron F" 
To: "'Ralf van de Ven'" , LART list 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: RE: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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True, there are plenty of PCMCIA devices, including 100Mb Ethernet.
However, I do not believe that PCMCIA (16 bit) is capable of really punching
out 100Mb.  I have a Xircom 10/100 PCMCIA adapter that I used to use with a
laptop and never did get much more then about 11 Mb throughput.  How much of
that was the laptop and how much of that is due to PCMCIA I do not know,
however, when I replaced the adapter with a Xircom (same brand) 10/100Mb
Cardbus adapter (32 bit) the laptop's network throughput increased
dramatically.  In my case the fact that the PCMCIA adapter was 10/100 was
important simply from the perspective that I was using a 100 Mb only hub.

Does anybody know off hand if Cardbus is a difficult or simple task to
implement on a LART?  If I remember correctly Cardbus is electrically the
same as a compact flash slot...

Regards,

Aaron Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralf van de Ven [mailto:ralf@sentec.nl]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 1:15 AM
To: LART list
Cc: LART list
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition



----- Original Message -----
From: "Wookey" 
To: "Bari Ari" 
Cc: "LART list" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition


> On Wed 09 May, Bari Ari wrote:
> > The nice thing about PCI with the SA-1110 is that designers can take
> > advantage of  the wide variety of low cost and readily available PCI
> > devices.
>
> This seems to me to be the most significant thing that pushes people
towards
> PCI. (The choice of 100Mbit ethernet chips that don't have PCI interfaces
was
> precisely one last time I looked, and that took some looking).

It would seem to me that there are plenty of pcmcia devices, wich should
be easily adaptable to suit a lart.

regards
Ralf van de Ven


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 01:55:38 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:48:42 +1000
To: Wookey 
From: John Windle 
Subject: Re: Flashing the kernel & ramdisk; Newbie
Cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: 
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Downloaded the blob2.02 file you recommended, built it and flashed it but 
it doesn't appear to work. Not sure what I've done wrong this time.

I do notice that in the src directory there are a number of extra binaries, 
compared to  blob-1.0.8-pre2, produced by make; blob-rest and blob-start. I 
tried using blob-rest but it didn't work either.

Any clues? Or perhaps this version just isn't ready for release yet.

Thanks for your help.

john


At 14:22 8/05/01 +0100, Wookey wrote:
>On Tue 08 May, John Windle wrote:
> > I have blob compiled and down in flash. But it isn't clear to me how I go
> > about getting the kernel and ramdisk down there.
> >
> > I downloaded the kernel with blob and tried to use the flash command, and
> > it told me that it wouldn't do it using internal flash; just as the readme
> > file said it wouldn't. I tried it as that section might have been specific
> > to the LART; I could hope.
> >
> > So if anyone could send me a pointer to how I can get the kernel and
> > ramdisk into flash, on the SA1110 Assabet I have the daughter board
> > attached if that makes a difference,  so that blob will boot them I'd
> > appreciate it.
>
>Hmm, I haven't tried this yet on assabet, so I'm not actually sure what the
>correct answer is, but it's probably worth trying the basically-working blob
>2.02 version at http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/blob2.02.tgz which is
>capable of flashing into internal flash.
>
>I started checkling the assabet support but didn't get very far so I'm not
>sure if it will still work. It shouldn't be hard to fix it if it has become
>broken. More significantly I've no idea if the internal-flash writing is
>enough the same for assabet that it can be expected to work....given an
>affirmative on this then it'd be work seeing if it works.
>
>Wookey
>--
>Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
>work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
>
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:52:48 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
Subject: RE: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
In-reply-to: <11652883D8DDD311AC42009027C67FF604023CE2@orsmsx58.jf.intel.com>
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On 10 May 2001 16:41:47 -0700, Brown, Aaron F wrote:
> True, there are plenty of PCMCIA devices, including 100Mb Ethernet.
> However, I do not believe that PCMCIA (16 bit) is capable of really punching
> out 100Mb.  I have a Xircom 10/100 PCMCIA adapter that I used to use with a
> laptop and never did get much more then about 11 Mb throughput.  How much of
> that was the laptop and how much of that is due to PCMCIA I do not know,
> however, when I replaced the adapter with a Xircom (same brand) 10/100Mb
> Cardbus adapter (32 bit) the laptop's network throughput increased
> dramatically.  In my case the fact that the PCMCIA adapter was 10/100 was
> important simply from the perspective that I was using a 100 Mb only hub.
> 
> Does anybody know off hand if Cardbus is a difficult or simple task to
> implement on a LART?  If I remember correctly Cardbus is electrically the
> same as a compact flash slot...
>


no, cardbus is pci, and all 100Mbit pcmcia cards are probably cardbus.
The buses the sa-1100 has are faily fast, and the timing can be changed
very easily. Cirrus is supposevily coming out with a dual 10/100Mbit
chip which would interface to a strongarm's sram interface, which would
be ideal.

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Russ Dill wrote:

> On 10 May 2001 16:41:47 -0700, Brown, Aaron F wrote:
> 
>> True, there are plenty of PCMCIA devices, including 100Mb Ethernet.
>> However, I do not believe that PCMCIA (16 bit) is capable of really punching
>> out 100Mb.  I have a Xircom 10/100 PCMCIA adapter that I used to use with a
>> laptop and never did get much more then about 11 Mb throughput.  How much of
>> that was the laptop and how much of that is due to PCMCIA I do not know,
>> however, when I replaced the adapter with a Xircom (same brand) 10/100Mb
>> Cardbus adapter (32 bit) the laptop's network throughput increased
>> dramatically.  In my case the fact that the PCMCIA adapter was 10/100 was
>> important simply from the perspective that I was using a 100 Mb only hub.
>> 
>> Does anybody know off hand if Cardbus is a difficult or simple task to
>> implement on a LART?  If I remember correctly Cardbus is electrically the
>> same as a compact flash slot...
>> 
> 
> 
> no, cardbus is pci, and all 100Mbit pcmcia cards are probably cardbus.
> The buses the sa-1100 has are faily fast, and the timing can be changed
> very easily. Cirrus is supposevily coming out with a dual 10/100Mbit
> chip which would interface to a strongarm's sram interface, which would
> be ideal.
> 
Macronix and SMSC both have non PCI 10/100 ethernet controllers with 
integrated MACs now that will work with the StrongARMs.

Bari


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 08:56:38 2001
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Hi,

I am no hardware guy, but would like to know how difficult
it would be to use the M-Systems' DOC rather than Intel's
Strata?

Awaiting your replies.

~Mayuresh

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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:42:05 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi!

I've been looking at the Cirrus Logic CS8952 chip (the big brother of the
LART 8900 ethernet chip) and was wondering if there is any support for it in
Linux?

If not, any ideas how difficult it would be to add support for it? How much
does the 8952 differ from the 8900 ??

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

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______________________________________________________
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 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 09:49:37 2001
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To: LART list 
Subject: RE: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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>>>>> "Brown," == Brown, Aaron F  writes:


    Brown,> Does anybody know off hand if Cardbus is a difficult or simple
    Brown,> task to implement on a LART?  If I remember correctly Cardbus is
    Brown,> electrically the same as a compact flash slot...

Hallo Aron,

on the Protocoll side, Cardbus is the same as PCI (32 bit/33 MHz)

    Brown,> -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
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Please edit away footer when quoting.

Thanks
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:17:57 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: "Brown, Aaron F" , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Using the lart for fast data aquisition
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On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:52:48PM -0700, Russ Dill wrote:
> no, cardbus is pci, and all 100Mbit pcmcia cards are probably cardbus.

No, there are also pcmcia fast ethernet adapters, I currently have one
in my laptop:

  root@arthur:~ #cardctl ident
  Socket 0:
    product info: "3Com", "Megahertz 574B", "B", "001"
    manfid: 0x0101, 0x0574
    function: 6 (network)
  root@arthur:~ #mii-tool -v
  eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-HD, link ok
    product info: TDK 78Q2120 rev 10
    basic mode:   autonegotiation enabled
    basic status: autonegotiation complete, link ok
    capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
    advertising:  100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
    link partner: 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-HD

Because PCMCIA is almost the same as the old ISA bus, the maximum
throughput I can get is about 1.4Mbyte/s.

If a PCMCIA network card is said to do 100Mbit, it only means that it
will not explode when you connect it to such a network.


Erik

-- 
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Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:24:01 +0200
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From: "J.D. Bakker" 
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At 12:18 +0530 11-05-2001, mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am no hardware guy, but would like to know how difficult
>it would be to use the M-Systems' DOC rather than Intel's
>Strata?

The DOC is just that, a Disk-On-Chip, with emphasis on the 'disk' 
part. It's basically a (multimodule) semiconductor pretending to be 
an IDE disk. It's not possible to boot a StrongARM (or any other 
processor I know of) directly from disk without loading boot code 
from Flash, ROM, RAM or any other kind of 'chip' memory.

JDB.
-- 
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  see if that fixes the problem."
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:36:54 +0200
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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At 09:42 +0200 11-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I've been looking at the Cirrus Logic CS8952 chip (the big brother of the
>LART 8900 ethernet chip) and was wondering if there is any support for it in
>Linux?

It's a standard MII PHY, which is supported by several drivers (like 
the Tulip). That won't do you much good, because...

>If not, any ideas how difficult it would be to add support for it? How much
>does the 8952 differ from the 8900 ??

The 8900 is an integrated MAC/PHY, whereas the 8952 is just a PHY.

An Ethernet adapter consists of two parts, the MAC and the PHY. The 
MAC handles the protocols, the PHY connects to the wire. The two are 
either on the same chip (as with the '8900) or they are on two chips 
connected by a MII (media-independent interface). You need both to 
communicate.

Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure, 
it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I 
know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I 
know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual 
application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?

JDB.
[who would like to have Fast Ethernet as much as the next guy]
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 12:05:58 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:01:42 +0100 (BST)
From: kira brown 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: , 
Subject: Re: LART with M-Sys DOC?
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On Fri, 11 May 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> The DOC is just that, a Disk-On-Chip, with emphasis on the 'disk'
> part. It's basically a (multimodule) semiconductor pretending to be
> an IDE disk.

No, it is not.

It is a flash module that can pretend to be a ROM.

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 13:08:15 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:03:51 +0200
To: kira brown 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LART with M-Sys DOC?
Cc: , 
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At 11:01 +0100 11-05-2001, kira brown wrote:
>On Fri, 11 May 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>
>>  The DOC is just that, a Disk-On-Chip, with emphasis on the 'disk'
>>  part. It's basically a (multimodule) semiconductor pretending to be
>>  an IDE disk.
>
>No, it is not.
>
>It is a flash module that can pretend to be a ROM.

[/me checks http://www.m-sys.com/]

Right you are; I was thinking of regular CompactFlash cards.

So yes, it could be used to boot a LART, if someone were to

(a) design an interface board, or do a LART rework (the DOC doesn't 
fit the StrataFlash footprint)
(b) write a bootloader for it, as the DOC only exposes an 8KB window 
to the device.

JDB.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                      -- Arthur Kasspe
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 13:25:26 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:22:21 +0100 (BST)
From: kira brown 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: , 
Subject: Re: LART with M-Sys DOC?
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On Fri, 11 May 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> >It is a flash module that can pretend to be a ROM.
>
> Right you are;

Course I am :-)

> So yes, it could be used to boot a LART, if someone were to
>
> (a) design an interface board, or do a LART rework (the DOC doesn't
> fit the StrataFlash footprint)

An interface board wouldn't be too hard.

> (b) write a bootloader for it, as the DOC only exposes an 8KB window
> to the device.

dwmw2 has already got grub working on it;  shouldn't be too hard to make
blob do it, I suspect...

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 14:57:49 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:53:59 +0200
To: Jeff Sutherland 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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[Reposted on behalf of Jeff Sutherland .  Reply 
to him not me. Please, folks, remember this list is open for 
subscribers only. I still get enough non-subscriber spam to warrant 
keeping the list closed]

"J.D. Bakker" wrote:

>  At 09:42 +0200 11-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>  >Hi!
>  >
>  >I've been looking at the Cirrus Logic CS8952 chip

---snip---

>  Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure,
>  it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I
>  know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I
>  know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual
>  application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
>
>  JDB.
>  [who would like to have Fast Ethernet as much as the next guy]

Well, we went round and round over this with a customer and the bottom line
is: They really didn't need the throughput of 100Mb/s, but there ARE some hubs
and switches out there that apparently can't talk 10base-T when set up for
100base-T, so they wanted to make sure they could talk on either network speed.
BTW you might want to check out the SMSC LAN91C110 if you really want to do
10/100.  Admittedly it's a multiple chip solution (separate MAC + PHY + 4 fast
sram chips) but interfaces nicely to the SA11x0 in the PCMCIA address space.
Cirrus Logic has a vapourware part that has TWO 10/100 macs/phys on a single
chip with a PCMCIA interface; don't know if or when it will ever be released.
Depending on the cpu and PCMCIA bus timings we're seeing over 20Mb/s 
per channel
on our SA1110-based design when running 100base-T, so there's still a
significant speed boost over 10base-T even without DMA (note the 128K cache
helps a LOT on the 91C110...)

--
        Jeff Sutherland - Senior Engineer - http://www.accelent.com
-  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -
Whenever I return from a trip abroad, I'm always amazed by two things: All
the wide open space we have in this country, and how bad the roads are.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 15:19:21 2001
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From: "Ralf van de Ven" 
To: "LART list" 
Subject: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:14:14 +0200
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I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does linux support that
?

Does anyone know any designs including rts/cts wich are supported by linux.

regards
Ralf van de Ven


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 16:32:57 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:24:44 -0500
From: Bari Ari 
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Subject: Re: LART with M-Sys DOC?
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J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 12:18 +0530 11-05-2001, mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am no hardware guy, but would like to know how difficult
>> it would be to use the M-Systems' DOC rather than Intel's
>> Strata?
> 
> 
> The DOC is just that, a Disk-On-Chip, with emphasis on the 'disk'  
> part. It's basically a (multimodule) semiconductor pretending to be  
> an IDE disk. It's not possible to boot a StrongARM (or any other  
> processor I know of) directly from disk without loading boot code  
> from Flash, ROM, RAM or any other kind of 'chip' memory.

The DOC Millennium has a programmable IPL area so you can use these DOCs 
for booting. We've been using them for a while with LinuxBIOS for x86 
and we're working on versions for Arm and Mips. You could work with Blob 
or Angel in the DOCs as well. The DOC 2000s don't have the programmable 
IPL area so you're limited to the 512 Byte blocks. Take a look at

http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/
and also

http://www.linuxbios.org

Bari


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 19:50:54 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:41:53 -0500
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: "Eric N. Johnson (ACD)" 
Subject: Revised JTAG files
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--=====================_-1626910265==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I've made some minor revisions to Holly Gates JTAG adapter for the 
LART.  I've attached the schematic and Gerber files to this message.  The 
CAD drawings were done in Protel 98, and I can send copies of the files to 
anyone who'd like them.

I've built two of these, and they seem to work.  I can program and verify 
the BLOB with the jflash utility.

Unfortunately, my LARTs aren't working though, so you may want to take this 
revision with a grain of salt.  I had to stuff the 8 M-bit version of the 
flash (DT28F800F3B) since I couldn't get the 16 M-bit ones.  Are there any 
known problems with using this flash chip?  BLOB programs and verifies, 
which tells me my flash+power supplies are probably OK.  But when I try to 
boot it, I don't get anything out of the UART.  The chip-select line 
toggles, but nothing happens.

Thanks to Holly for her assistance and doing the first version of the JTAG 
adapter.

Eric
--=====================_-1626910265==_
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--=====================_-1626910265==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

------------------------------------
Eric Johnson, Electrical Engineer
Advanced Communication Design
   7901 12th Avenue South
   Bloomington, MN 55425
Ph: 952-854-4000  Fax: 952-854-5774
--=====================_-1626910265==_--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 21:06:42 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:02:15 -0400
From: Holly Gates 
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Nice job. That should be 'his' assistance though; I may have a girl's 
name but I am in fact male :)

-Holly

> 
> Thanks to Holly for her assistance and doing the first version of the 
> JTAG  adapter.
> 
> Eric
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Eric Johnson, Electrical Engineer
> Advanced Communication Design
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 21:44:26 2001
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Kira,

>> (b) write a bootloader for it, as the DOC only exposes an 8KB 
>> window to the device.
> dwmw2 has already got grub working on it;  shouldn't be too hard
> to make blob do it, I suspect...

Even the M-Systems guys provide a modified version of Lilo, its called dLilo (or DOC Lilo ;-)

~Mayuresh

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 11 23:55:38 2001
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From: kira brown 
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On Sat, 12 May 2001 mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:

> Kira,
>
> >> (b) write a bootloader for it, as the DOC only exposes an 8KB
> >> window to the device.
> > dwmw2 has already got grub working on it;  shouldn't be too hard
> > to make blob do it, I suspect...
>
> Even the M-Systems guys provide a modified version of Lilo, its called
> dLilo (or DOC Lilo ;-)

LILO doesn't work on StrongARM.  It's an x86 program.

Furthermore, the M-Systems patched lilo is a complete piece of shit-  it
doesn't work properly at all.

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 00:35:44 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:33:04 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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> 
> LILO doesn't work on StrongARM.  It's an x86 program.
> 
> Furthermore, the M-Systems patched lilo is a complete piece of shit-  it
> doesn't work properly at all.
> 

I think he's just trying to point out that it is possible...although,
now that I think of it...

Isn't the DOC an 8-bit device? you need at least a 16 bit databus to
boot, I suppose you could put two together, but it starts getting more
and more contrived
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 00:48:00 2001
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On Fri, 11 May 2001, Russ Dill wrote:

> Isn't the DOC an 8-bit device?

Yes.

> you need at least a 16 bit databus to
> boot,

Really?  I remember using 8-bit-wide ROMs on ARM2 way back when, is this
an artifact of LARTness?

Anyway, booting isn't really the point of DiscOnCHip, it's being able to
get a single module that holds 72Mbytes...

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 01:45:42 2001
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:41:11 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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> Anyway, booting isn't really the point of DiscOnCHip, it's being able to
> get a single module that holds 72Mbytes...
> 

it would be trivial to make an add on card to the low speed interface
that would support a disk-on-chip, and then use it for storage after
booting from standard flash. I think such a board could be made using a
100-mil prototyping board, maybe with some kindof passthrough to the ksb
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 11:53:12 2001
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 <3AFC7897.BADF3E90@asu.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:46:29 +0200
To: Russ Dill 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: LART with M-Sys DOC?
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>  > Anyway, booting isn't really the point of DiscOnCHip, it's being able to
>>  get a single module that holds 72Mbytes...
>>
>
>it would be trivial to make an add on card to the low speed interface
>that would support a disk-on-chip, and then use it for storage after
>booting from standard flash. I think such a board could be made using a
>100-mil prototyping board, maybe with some kindof passthrough to the ksb

Sure, but if you're using an extra board anyway it makes more sense 
to do a CompactFlash interface, as those are larger and more cost 
effective than the DOCs. By the way, you could connect a CF part to 
the IDE channel of the KSB; I believe http://www.tapr.org/ has a 
simple IDE->CF converter.

HTH,

JDB.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 17:37:49 2001
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From: roberto vescovi 
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Hi people,
 
I'm a  new entusiastic future StrongArm SA1100 developer from ITALY
 
I'm very enteresting to realize LART Hw with Ksb and Ethernet in my new
project but after some  week  of studing on  schematic and software of  LART
platform there are some questions to ask.
 
1) In the schematic of CPLD U9 (ksb_rev2_u9.pdf ) there are no pin  of Ps/2
mouse , Keyboard and IRDA controls that are present on the LART schematic.
it is last release ???? and if no where can download the new complete
schematic of CPLD  ?
 
3) Where can find the Gerber of KSB and Ethernet card ?
 
2) For my project i think to connect a LCD 320x200 8bpp on LART  with
resistive touchScreen with X  capability.
Whitch is the last Kernel release of Linux and relative patch for this
implementation and where can find it ?
 
3) Where i can found a ramdisk image with simple X window  ?
 
4) Haw can debug my simple Hello.c application with GDB5-0 and DDD on 
Host x86 Pc Hardware and LART target via Serial com ?
 
5) Haw can apply diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2-em1.gz  and diff-2.3.99-pre3-  
rmk3-np2-em2.gz  to my Kernel linux-2.3.99-pre3.gz

 
Thank you at all for interesting   and   excuse me for my English   :))
 
    bye
 
 Roberto

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat May 12 18:25:46 2001
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Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:21:16 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Ralf van de Ven 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
Message-ID: <20010512182116.D8826@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:14:14PM +0200, Ralf van de Ven wrote:
> I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
> Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does linux support that
> ?

No. You can set up the serial ports to either a single serial port that
supports RTS and CTS, or two simple serial ports without RTS and CTS.
The latter is being used in arm-linux, and AFAIK the driver doesn't
even support the former (I'm sure Nicolas will correct me if I'm
wrong :).

> Does anyone know any designs including rts/cts wich are supported by linux.

It's not a problem with the hardware: every SA11x0 design supports it.
The problem is the software.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:40:26 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
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On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 05:30:48PM +0200, roberto vescovi wrote:
> I'm very enteresting to realize LART Hw with Ksb and Ethernet in my new
> project but after some  week  of studing on  schematic and software of  LART
> platform there are some questions to ask.
>  
> 1) In the schematic of CPLD U9 (ksb_rev2_u9.pdf ) there are no pin  of Ps/2
> mouse , Keyboard and IRDA controls that are present on the LART schematic.
> it is last release ???? and if no where can download the new complete
> schematic of CPLD  ?

Yes, it is the latest release. The reason why it's not connected is
because we simply didn't test it yet. It should be straightforward,
though, and I plan to use the framework from Vojtech Pavlik's input
drivers (http:////www.suse.cz/development/input/ ).

> 3) Where can find the Gerber of KSB and Ethernet card ?

They're not there yet. Now the ethernet works, we will release a
revised Gerber file real soon. I also don't see any major objections in
holding back the KSB Gerbers as soon as we have build up and tested a
rev3 KSB.

> 2) For my project i think to connect a LCD 320x200 8bpp on LART  with
> resistive touchScreen with X  capability.
> Whitch is the last Kernel release of Linux and relative patch for this
> implementation and where can find it ?

I send all my changes to Nicolas Pitre, so you can find it in his
patch.

> 3) Where i can found a ramdisk image with simple X window  ?

AFAIK there is no ramdisk with X windows. The closest you can get is to
use Nicolas Pitre's ramdisk and put the X server from www.handhelds.org
on it.
  
> 4) Haw can debug my simple Hello.c application with GDB5-0 and DDD on 
> Host x86 Pc Hardware and LART target via Serial com ?

No idea, I never use debuggers in interactive mode. I only use a
debugger to get a stack trace from a core file, which is usually enough
to know where the real bug is.

> 5) Haw can apply diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2-em1.gz  and diff-2.3.99-pre3-  
> rmk3-np2-em2.gz  to my Kernel linux-2.3.99-pre3.gz

Don't do that, those are patches against ancient kernels which are
known to contain bugs! All the necessary stuff is in Nico's patch, so
you should use his latest patch. I'm currently using
linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np2 which is proven to be stable on LART, and I plan
to upgrade to linux-2.4.4-rmk2-np1 this week.

See http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/ for links to the relevant
FTP sites. Nico's ramdisk can be get from the same FTP site as where he
uploads his kernel patches.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun May 13 02:00:44 2001
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On Sat, 12 May 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:14:14PM +0200, Ralf van de Ven wrote:
> > I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
> > Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does linux support that
> > ?
>
> No. You can set up the serial ports to either a single serial port that
> supports RTS and CTS, or two simple serial ports without RTS and CTS.
> The latter is being used in arm-linux, and AFAIK the driver doesn't
> even support the former (I'm sure Nicolas will correct me if I'm
> wrong :).

Actually none of the SA11x0 UARTs implement hardware flow control directly.
It can easily be implemented with spare GPIOs and some code in the serial
driver though.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 14 09:30:21 2001
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From: "Andreas Hofer" 
To: "'Ralf van de Ven'" 
Cc: 
Subject: AW: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:19:51 +0200
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> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]Im
> Auftrag von Ralf van de Ven
> Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Mai 2001 15:14
> An: LART list
> Betreff: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
>
>
> I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
> Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does
> linux support that
> ?
>
> Does anyone know any designs including rts/cts wich are
> supported by linux.
>
> regards
> Ralf van de Ven
>
>

Ralf,

to my knowledge at least two implementations of HW- handshking exist for
the UARTs built into the SA11*0. One approach is to use a mix of GPIOs
and CPLD lines (look for the HUW_WEBPANEL defiones in serial-sa1100.c),
whereas we only do GPIO handshaking (just RTS/CTS, so maybe that's what
you are looking for). There were several bugs in the handshaking code
that we fixed. We are going to send the patches to Nicolas Pitre who
maintains the SA11x0 specific patches. So maybe you want to wait for the
patches to be integrated into the next np? patch.

Andreas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 14 10:42:47 2001
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Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:39:49 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi J.D.!

> Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure,=20
> it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I=20
> know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I=20
> know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual=20
> application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?

Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer, or router or just about
anything out there (;

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

"He flung himself on his horse and rode madly off in all directions."

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 14 11:25:06 2001
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 <20010514103948.A9215@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:21:44 +0200
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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At 10:39 +0200 14-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>  > Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure,
>>  it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I
>>  know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I
>  > know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual
>  > application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
>
>Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer,

Those can be served better by an XScale, an embedded PowerPC (most of 
which have on-chip Fast Ethernet or even any old PC chassis (think 
economy of scale).

>  or router

'Router' is pretty overloaded these days. The SA-1100 with 10Base-T 
does just fine as a masquerading/accounting/firewalling host to POTS, 
ISDN or *DSL; for higher bandwidth apps you may want to look at 
something like the IXP1200.

Let me rephrase my original question then:

Does anyone have an actual application *where it makes sense to use 
an SA-1100* which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?

JD '!(one_size_fits_all)' B.
-- 
Riddoch's Myth of computing:
         Any computer problem is invariably the fault of the closest
         sysadmin.
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi J.D.!

> >Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer,
>=20
> Those can be served better by an XScale, an embedded PowerPC (most of=20
> which have on-chip Fast Ethernet or even any old PC chassis (think=20
> economy of scale).

For a video streamer, XScale might be better, but for a low-end
big-black-box type fileserver, PowerPC is overkill imho. SA-1100 and SA-1110
is perfect for that imho

> Let me rephrase my original question then:
>=20
> Does anyone have an actual application *where it makes sense to use=20
> an SA-1100* which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?

Maybe not the SA-1100, but the SA-1110 is definitely fast enough for
applications where you can process more data that 1MB/s. What about mail
servers, pop3 servers, dns, etc. The possibilities are limitless.

The question is not whether there is any applications at the moment which
can make use of the extra bandwidth but rather whether it's possible to add
that functionality - if it is, I'm sure somebody will come along with some
application.

Not only that, all the other alternatives you mentioned here is _not_ free.
LART is - makes a big difference! As long as LART is the only useful free h=
/w
platform, people will try to use it for everything.

Where's the hacking spirit here dammit? If it can be done, it should - who
care's if it's needed (;

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Virtue is a relative term.
		-- Spock, "Friday's Child", stardate 3499.1

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za       Kenilworth, 7700
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From: kira brown 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: "J.D. Bakker" ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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On Mon, 14 May 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> For a video streamer, XScale might be better, but for a low-end
> big-black-box type fileserver, PowerPC is overkill imho.

A 50MHz PowerPC PowerQUICC 860 all-on-one-chip costing 15 dollars is
overkill?

Lordy.

kira.


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Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 12:43:58 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
Message-ID: <20010514124358.Q8826@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
References: <20010511094205.A16587@crystal.2d3d.co.za>  <20010514103948.A9215@crystal.2d3d.co.za>  <20010514121010.A10336@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:10:10PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > >Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer,
> > 
> > Those can be served better by an XScale, an embedded PowerPC (most of 
> > which have on-chip Fast Ethernet or even any old PC chassis (think 
> > economy of scale).
> 
> For a video streamer, XScale might be better, but for a low-end
> big-black-box type fileserver, PowerPC is overkill imho. SA-1100 and SA-1110
> is perfect for that imho

A low end file server can be done much better with an el cheapo PC.
PowerPC makes a lot of sense as well, there is a vast range of embedded
PowerPC CPUs from Motorola and IBM. PowerPC != extremely fast and
expensive CPU.

> > Let me rephrase my original question then:
> > 
> > Does anyone have an actual application *where it makes sense to use 
> > an SA-1100* which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
> 
> Maybe not the SA-1100, but the SA-1110 is definitely fast enough for
> applications where you can process more data that 1MB/s. What about mail
> servers, pop3 servers, dns, etc. The possibilities are limitless.

Sure. The possibilities are limitless, and the SA1100 is certainly fast
enough to do it (though the disk performance is certainly not). JDB's
question however was if it would *make sense*. "Because we can" is not
the right answer here.

BTW: the SA1110 is just an SA1100 with SDRAM interface, so apart from
higher memory throughput not faster.

> The question is not whether there is any applications at the moment which
> can make use of the extra bandwidth but rather whether it's possible to add
> that functionality - if it is, I'm sure somebody will come along with some
> application.

"You know you have reached perfection in design, not when there is
 nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

  -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

> Not only that, all the other alternatives you mentioned here is _not_ free.
> LART is - makes a big difference! As long as LART is the only useful free h/w
> platform, people will try to use it for everything.

IIRC there are some free PowerPC designs as well. IBM had one, don't
know what happened to it.

> Where's the hacking spirit here dammit? If it can be done, it should - who
> care's if it's needed (;

Hey, I don't keep you from designing your own fast ethernet board for
the LART :)


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi Erik!

> Sure. The possibilities are limitless, and the SA1100 is certainly fast
> enough to do it (though the disk performance is certainly not). JDB's
> question however was if it would *make sense*. "Because we can" is not
> the right answer here.

Just out of curiousity, why do you say the SA1100 is not capable of
delivering good disk performance?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Bubble Memory, n.:
	A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's intelligence.
	See also "vacuum tube".

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za       Kenilworth, 7700
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:08:50PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, why do you say the SA1100 is not capable of
> delivering good disk performance?

Because we're currently stuck at 3MB/s.

We're thinking about a trick to get it faster, though (map the IDE in
PCMCIA attribute space and select faster timings for it without
disturbing the timings of PCMCIA IO space).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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>>>>> "kira" == kira brown  writes:

    kira> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

    >> For a video streamer, XScale might be better, but for a low-end
    >> big-black-box type fileserver, PowerPC is overkill imho.

    kira> A 50MHz PowerPC PowerQUICC 860 all-on-one-chip costing 15 dollars
    kira> is overkill?

Any reference where to get that?

Thanks
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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From: kira brown 
To: Uwe Bonnes 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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On Mon, 14 May 2001, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

> Any reference where to get that?

Well, motorola is a good start...  we use one in Netpilot.

kira.


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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Uwe Bonnes 
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Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi Uwe!

>     kira> A 50MHz PowerPC PowerQUICC 860 all-on-one-chip costing 15 dolla=
rs
>     kira> is overkill?
>=20
> Any reference where to get that?

http://www.motorola.com/MPC860 i think

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

As long as the answer is right, who cares if the question is wrong?

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
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  Http: http://www.2d3d.co.za    South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 14 14:48:42 2001
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Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:42:45 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: LART list ,
        Dxr3 Development list 
Subject: Re: 100 M/Bits ethernet
Message-ID: <20010514144245.U8826@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:31:38PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > > Just out of curiousity, why do you say the SA1100 is not capable of
> > > delivering good disk performance?
> > 
> > Because we're currently stuck at 3MB/s.
> 
> ouch. why is there such a limitation? Is it because of the lack of a PCI bus
> or due to something else?

No, because there are some other slow devices in the same IO region
that definitively don't like to be handled any faster (ethernet, for
example). That's why we want to move the IDE into PCMCIA atribute
space.

Oh, and please drop the idea that PCI is fast. It isn't. Burst mode
throughput is only 125.9MB/s at maximum, and there is no way you can do
that sustained.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: Raphael "DephiNit" Pereira 
Subject: KSB and Ethernet Bill of Materials
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:20:04 -0300
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Hi,

Can someone provide me that?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Raphael "DephiNit" Pereira
            -=-*-=-*-=-
      dephinit@softhome.net
            -=-*-=-*-=-

Debian GNU/Linux Addicted User
    Use it, Abuse it. It's Free!!!
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 15 00:55:03 2001
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From: "Bill Clark" 
To: 
Subject: RE: 100 M/Bits ethernet
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:51:29 -0600
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JD,

I've been lurking here owing to one quite valid use of LART with at least one
10/100 port (preferrably five or more). Wireless backhaul routing for wireless
ISPs. Here, data rates are 12~16Mbit/s. The performance required of the router
is limited by the throughput of the provider port. Many ports are needed for
branch networks which share that port.

Importantly, solar powered backhauls are common as are local fiber drops. Thus,
we have a need for minimal power and 100Mbit/s Ethernet.

Why a low-power, many-ported router platform can't be had off the shelf is
beyond me. I detest replacing fans.

Bill Clark

J.D. Bakker asked (May 14, 2001 3:22 AM)
"At 10:39 +0200 14-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
">  > Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure,
">>  it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I
">>  know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I
">  > know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual
">  > application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
">
">Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer,
"
"Those can be served better by an XScale, an embedded PowerPC (most of
"which have on-chip Fast Ethernet or even any old PC chassis (think
"economy of scale).
"
">  or router
"
"'Router' is pretty overloaded these days. The SA-1100 with 10Base-T
"does just fine as a masquerading/accounting/firewalling host to POTS,
"ISDN or *DSL; for higher bandwidth apps you may want to look at
"something like the IXP1200.
"
"Let me rephrase my original question then:
"
"Does anyone have an actual application *where it makes sense to use
"an SA-1100* which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
"
"JD '!(one_size_fits_all)' B.
"--
"Riddoch's Myth of computing:
"         Any computer problem is invariably the fault of the closest
"         sysadmin.
"--
"To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
"the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
"Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
"

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 15 10:58:27 2001
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:55:48 +1000
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
From: Ashley Flynn 
Subject: RE: 100 M/Bits ethernet
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Hi all

I plan on making a wearable PC out of the LART, like a few others here. I'd
like to use it between my workplace and home, and while I'm travelling
around town to transfer files, do work, play MP3's or other sound formats,
maybe movies, etc.

It's going to have an IDE drive or two hanging off it and I'll need to be
able to get stuff on to and off of those fairly quickly whenever I need to.

At 10Mbps that's just no fun waiting half an hour for a measly 640MB of
data to copy accross the network. At 100Mbps I think that's cut to less
than five minutes, which would suit me just fine!

If there isn't an official LART release of 100Mbps ethernet, I and several
others will have to go about creating our own I suspect. Not an expense I'm
looking forward to. I can see there is definitely demand for it, even on
this little list! :)

So, just adding my vote to the 100Mbps petition.. I'm sure there are a
zillion other uses for 100Mbps that others would care to add?

Regards

Ashley Flynn


>JD,
>
>I've been lurking here owing to one quite valid use of LART with at least one
>10/100 port (preferrably five or more). Wireless backhaul routing for
wireless
>ISPs. Here, data rates are 12~16Mbit/s. The performance required of the
router
>is limited by the throughput of the provider port. Many ports are needed for
>branch networks which share that port.
>
>Importantly, solar powered backhauls are common as are local fiber drops.
Thus,
>we have a need for minimal power and 100Mbit/s Ethernet.
>
>Why a low-power, many-ported router platform can't be had off the shelf is
>beyond me. I detest replacing fans.
>
>Bill Clark
>
>J.D. Bakker asked (May 14, 2001 3:22 AM)
>"At 10:39 +0200 14-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>">  > Besides, what do people think they need 100MBit Ethernet for ? Sure,
>">>  it would be cool to have, but all current 100MBit hubs and switches I
>">>  know do 10/100 autodetect. Furthermore most Fast Ethernet chips I
>">  > know eat more current than the '8900. Does anyone have an actual
>">  > application which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
>">
>">Yes, what about a fileserver? Or video streamer,
>"
>"Those can be served better by an XScale, an embedded PowerPC (most of
>"which have on-chip Fast Ethernet or even any old PC chassis (think
>"economy of scale).
>"
>">  or router
>"
>"'Router' is pretty overloaded these days. The SA-1100 with 10Base-T
>"does just fine as a masquerading/accounting/firewalling host to POTS,
>"ISDN or *DSL; for higher bandwidth apps you may want to look at
>"something like the IXP1200.
>"
>"Let me rephrase my original question then:
>"
>"Does anyone have an actual application *where it makes sense to use
>"an SA-1100* which exceeds the 10MBit bandwidth ?
>"
>"JD '!(one_size_fits_all)' B.
>"--
>"Riddoch's Myth of computing:
>"         Any computer problem is invariably the fault of the closest
>"         sysadmin.
>"--
>"To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>"the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>"Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>"
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
>Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 10:37:43 2001
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Subject: Mic input?
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Is it possible to use UCB1200 mic input on KSB? (Is there linux
driver?)

Any ideas about stereo mic input?

Thanks for any answer

Vaclav Hanzl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 13:19:03 2001
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On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:56:05PM +0200, hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
> Is it possible to use UCB1200 mic input on KSB? (Is there linux
> driver?)

Yes, it's possible. I haven't tried the new UCB 1200 driver lately.

> Any ideas about stereo mic input?

Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
and iPaq.


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 15:15:52 2001
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From: "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
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Subject: Re: Mic input?
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:08:43 +0200
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> Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
> and iPaq.
>
Hi, I' studying about the couple UDA1341-SA11x0 too.
I understood that in Assabet the SSP clock is given by the SDRAM clock, but
this is incompatible with clock scaling. What's the simplest way to make an
external clock for the SSP (With simplest I mean "with few components").

Thanks,
Giuseppe Ottaviano
giuott@tin.it

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 15:38:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:35:30 +0200
To: "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Mic input?
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At 15:08 +0200 16-05-2001, Giuseppe Ottaviano wrote:
>  > Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
>>  and iPaq.
>>
>Hi, I' studying about the couple UDA1341-SA11x0 too.
>I understood that in Assabet the SSP clock is given by the SDRAM clock, but
>this is incompatible with clock scaling.

It's also IMNSHO an ugly hack. When I spoke with the Assabet designer 
he told me that he wanted to use the absolute minimum in components.

>  What's the simplest way to make an
>external clock for the SSP (With simplest I mean "with few components").

Either use a crystal oscillator (such as 
http://www.iqdcrystals.com/CFP2/pdffilesJan00/surface_spxo/iqxo-70.pdf); 
this is what I do on our SA1110-design, or use a PLL (like 
http://www.amis.com/tgp/feature_sheets/fs6370.cfm) locked to another 
CPU-generated clock signal.

HTH,

JDB.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 16:47:58 2001
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:40:04 -0500
To: "J.D. Bakker" ,
        "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
From: "Eric N. Johnson (ACD)" 
Subject: Re: Mic input?
Cc: 
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At 03:35 PM 5/16/01, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>Either use a crystal oscillator (such as 
>http://www.iqdcrystals.com/CFP2/pdffilesJan00/surface_spxo/iqxo-70.pdf); 
>this is what I do on our SA1110-design, or use a PLL (like 
>http://www.amis.com/tgp/feature_sheets/fs6370.cfm) locked to another 
>CPU-generated clock signal.

In generel, use the first option over the 2nd one if at all possible.  I 
generally don't like to use PLLs on ADC and DACs because any jitter on the 
clock gets coupled directly into the audio signal as noise.

The problem with using a crystal is that it makes it hard to support both 
44.1 and 48 KHz derived sampling rates, unless you do rate conversion is 
software.  You can use two crystals, and select between them with a MUX, 
but that adds a lot to your parts count.

Happy hacking,
Eric


------------------------------------
Eric Johnson, Electrical Engineer
Advanced Communication Design
   7901 12th Avenue South
   Bloomington, MN 55425
Ph: 952-854-4000  Fax: 952-854-5774

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 19:40:35 2001
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From: "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
To: 
References: <20010514125605L.hanzl@unknown-domain> <20010516130836.B902@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> <00cf01c0de09$5e8329a0$ab9b0a3e@ottavio> 
Subject: Re: Mic input?
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> It's also IMNSHO an ugly hack. When I spoke with the Assabet designer
> he told me that he wanted to use the absolute minimum in components.
I agree with you.

> >  What's the simplest way to make an
> >external clock for the SSP (With simplest I mean "with few components").
>
> Either use a crystal oscillator (such as
> http://www.iqdcrystals.com/CFP2/pdffilesJan00/surface_spxo/iqxo-70.pdf);
Thanks, it was exactly what I was looking for. (I was unsure if a crystal
oscillator as that was suitable for a DAC)
> this is what I do on our SA1110-design, or use a PLL (like
Are you designing a SA1110 Lart-like board? What features does it include?
Even a PCMCIA slot? In that case, I'd have a few questions... :-)))
I'll ask anyway (I know it, we're going OT): the levels of the I/O must be
set accordingly to the voltage of the card (5-3.3v)? I ask that because in
the Neponset it seems that the SA1111 is using 3.3v levels independently of
the voltage set by the MAX1600 (or the SA1111 has an internal switch?).

Thanks in advance.
P.S. Excuse me for my Net-English (the english spoken by the internet
non-english people)
Giuseppe Ottaviano
giuott@tin.it



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 16 21:30:57 2001
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From: "David Burg" 
To: 
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Subject: About PCMCIA, and also software
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:29:52 +0200
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Hello,

I have just on my right the board of embedone ( http://www.embedone.com ).
:-) Yes it has a Pcmcia connector, but No, it's not working. Block sound are
also not working, and USB need to be tested. :-( I have contact them of
course, and they confirm the problems, but it seems they are currently
mainly working on the root file system image. Because it is really not ready
for the moment. :-!

But maybe if you work or plain to work on Pcmcia you can contact them and
exchange information. Since several projects on StrongArm are seeking for
pcmcia support, I think they should work together.

I will probably be one of the first users to be happy to get pcmcia card
working on StrongArm boards !

Also, as I say the root file system image provide with this embedone board
is not ready, and I'm searching for one embedded linux distribution. They
are many links on the web to projects, but I'm never able to found something
I can use (I need only gcc, some devloppement tools like automake, a package
manager to install libraries link libc and stdlibc++). Problably most of you
got good links that I miss. Can someone help me ?

To finish, I'm trying to make cross-compilation of an allready existant
project on x86 host to target StromArm (of course) and I got trouble with
autoconf and the configure.in file I have to modify to support
cross-compiling. So if someone also experiment this, I will be glad to
recieve good advices !

Best regards,

David Burg.

PS.: most of the discussions here are 'HW', I hope this little 'SW'
intervention doesn't disturb you, guys ! ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Giuseppe Ottaviano" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Mic input?


>
> > It's also IMNSHO an ugly hack. When I spoke with the Assabet designer
> > he told me that he wanted to use the absolute minimum in components.
> I agree with you.
>
> > >  What's the simplest way to make an
> > >external clock for the SSP (With simplest I mean "with few
components").
> >
> > Either use a crystal oscillator (such as
> > http://www.iqdcrystals.com/CFP2/pdffilesJan00/surface_spxo/iqxo-70.pdf);
> Thanks, it was exactly what I was looking for. (I was unsure if a crystal
> oscillator as that was suitable for a DAC)
> > this is what I do on our SA1110-design, or use a PLL (like
> Are you designing a SA1110 Lart-like board? What features does it include?
> Even a PCMCIA slot? In that case, I'd have a few questions... :-)))
> I'll ask anyway (I know it, we're going OT): the levels of the I/O must be
> set accordingly to the voltage of the card (5-3.3v)? I ask that because in
> the Neponset it seems that the SA1111 is using 3.3v levels independently
of
> the voltage set by the MAX1600 (or the SA1111 has an internal switch?).
>
> Thanks in advance.
> P.S. Excuse me for my Net-English (the english spoken by the internet
> non-english people)
> Giuseppe Ottaviano
> giuott@tin.it
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
> Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 00:01:00 2001
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:54:03 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: David Burg 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: About PCMCIA, and also software
Message-ID: <20010516235403.A12745@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:29:52PM +0200, David Burg wrote:
> I have just on my right the board of embedone ( http://www.embedone.com ).

Sorry, but it looks like that site doesn't exist:

  erik@arthur:~ >nslookup www.embedone.com
  Server:  ns1.et.tudelft.nl
  Address:  130.161.33.17

  *** ns1.et.tudelft.nl can't find www.embedone.com: Non-existent host/domain

> :-) Yes it has a Pcmcia connector, but No, it's not working. Block sound are
> also not working, and USB need to be tested. :-( I have contact them of
> course, and they confirm the problems, but it seems they are currently
> mainly working on the root file system image. Because it is really not ready
> for the moment. :-!

They shouldn't be using ancient kernels. It looks like the machine even
isn't registered in the ARM Linux machine registry, so they can't be
using the latest kernel. See:

  http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/

> But maybe if you work or plain to work on Pcmcia you can contact them and
> exchange information. Since several projects on StrongArm are seeking for
> pcmcia support, I think they should work together.

PCMCIA already works on several StrongARM platforms, John Dorsey and
Nicolas Pitre have been working on it for quite some time.

Support for a new SA11x0 platform is pretty trivial: just add a
platform specific driver file that supplies functions for init,
shutdown, socket state, etc., add some defines, edit Makefile, and
you're set.

> I will probably be one of the first users to be happy to get pcmcia card
> working on StrongArm boards !

Ehm... I don't think so. On LinuxWorld Expo last januari in New York
several people were giving presentations with a Compaq Ipaq (running
Linux) exquiped with a wireless ethernet card :)

> Also, as I say the root file system image provide with this embedone board
> is not ready, and I'm searching for one embedded linux distribution. They
> are many links on the web to projects, but I'm never able to found something
> I can use (I need only gcc, some devloppement tools like automake, a package
> manager to install libraries link libc and stdlibc++). Problably most of you
> got good links that I miss. Can someone help me ?

You won't find any of that on an embedded distribution. Embedded stuff
needs to be small, a complete development tree of gcc and g++ alone is
more than 100MB. If you really have so much disk space on your embedded
board, you'd better go for a complete distribution like debian-arm.
Getting debian-arm running on an SA11x0 can be a bit tricky, maybe I
should properly document how I did it (or maybe Wookey already did
that).

> To finish, I'm trying to make cross-compilation of an allready existant
> project on x86 host to target StromArm (of course) and I got trouble with
> autoconf and the configure.in file I have to modify to support
> cross-compiling. So if someone also experiment this, I will be glad to
> recieve good advices !

The nice thing about *all* configure scripts is that they support cross
compiling out-of-the-box. This usually does the trick:

  setenv CC arm-linux-gcc
  ./configure --whatever-options arm-linux

This works for almost all packages, except the ones that use the
AC_TRY_RUN macro (like bash), but even then it's quite doable by
fiddling with config.cache.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Cc: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl, g.ottavio@tiscalinet.it
Subject: Re: Mic input?
In-Reply-To: <20010516130836.B902@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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	<20010516130836.B902@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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> > Any ideas about stereo mic input?
> Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
> and iPaq.

Thanks to Erik for this info. Looking at Philips site, I found even
quad input UDA1342TS [1] (hope I could stream out all four channels),
which is exactly what we need (for noise canceling in car & speech
recognition).

Manual claims "high pin compatibility with UDA1341TS", so I think we
would manage to interface this to LART and modify UDA1341 linux driver.

Is there anybody else with similar needs?

Best Regards

Vaclav


Refs:
[1] http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/UDA1342TS
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:16:15 +0200
To: hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Mic input?
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl, g.ottavio@tiscalinet.it
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At 09:23 +0200 17-05-2001, hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
>  > > Any ideas about stereo mic input?
>>  Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
>>  and iPaq.
>
>Thanks to Erik for this info. Looking at Philips site, I found even
>quad input UDA1342TS [1] (hope I could stream out all four channels),
>which is exactly what we need (for noise canceling in car & speech
>recognition).

Note that (according to Section 11.12.9.3 of the SA-1100 Tech Ref 
Man) the highest bitrate of the SSP is 1.8432Mbit/sec, which at 4 
channels with 16 bit/sample each amounts to a max sampling rate of 
28.8 kHz. This is probably enough for speech; otherwise it may be 
possible to overclock the SSP.

JDB
[and if worse came to worst, you could always build your own 
interface with a FIFO and a CPLD]
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, official C3 agency.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 11:30:35 2001
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        g.ottavio@tiscalinet.it
Subject: Re: Mic input?
In-Reply-To: 
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	<20010517092333M.hanzl@unknown-domain>
	
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>>quad input UDA1342TS [1] (hope I could stream out all four channels),
>
>Note that (according to Section 11.12.9.3 of the SA-1100 Tech Ref 
>Man) the highest bitrate of the SSP is 1.8432Mbit/sec, which at 4 
>channels with 16 bit/sample each amounts to a max sampling rate of 
>28.8 kHz. This is probably enough for speech; otherwise it may be 
>possible to overclock the SSP.

16kHz would be enough for our speech recognition. (UDA1342 should work
from 16 kHz up (cannot quickly figure this out for UDA1341))

It is probably bad idea to misuse another SA1100 serial port (use SDLC
or IrDA instead of SSP) for codec connection? (but SDLC seemes to be used
for something on KSB, it is routed to 2064VE).

In our initial experiments I would like to keep KSB because of IDE
(and maybe UCB1200 for touchscreen), so it would be nice to keep SSP
connected to UCB1200 and use another port.  However I suppose we will
sacrify UCB1200 and steal SSP (does mid-board between LART and KSB
make sense? Or modify KSB PCB?) for UDA1342.

Next step would be just LART + our board with UDA1342.

Last step - simplified LART bord with UDA1342 on it.

We will see how far we get in this wonderful word you all prepared for
us :)) (many thanks for it)

Best Regards

Vaclav

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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:01:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: Revised JTAG files
To: "Eric N. Johnson (ACD)" 
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On Fri 11 May, Eric N. Johnson (ACD) wrote:
> I've made some minor revisions to Holly Gates JTAG adapter for the 
> LART. 

I see you added the reset pullup resistor so it doesn't have to be bodged on
somewhere. Were there any other changes?

Wookey
-- 
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To: Wookey ,
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From: "Eric N. Johnson (ACD)" 
Subject: Re: Revised JTAG files
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At 05:01 PM 5/17/01, Wookey wrote:
>I see you added the reset pullup resistor so it doesn't have to be bodged on
>somewhere. Were there any other changes?

1: Added R1 (reset pullup res.)

2: Changed C4, (it was correct on the PCB, but incorrect on the schematic.
    Before there were 2 caps on U4-pin8, but none on U4-pin7)

3: Grounded unused inputs on U4

4: Replaced 0603 passive components with 0805 (no particular reason, I just
    happen to stock 0805s)

Also when I re-layed out the board:
1: Added a ground plane on the bottom (probably not needed, but it can't
    hurt, and doesn't cost anything.)

2: Changed VIAs to 50/28 mil. so I could run it on a panel I was doing.

I've got a handful (about 4) of extra boards if anyone needs one.  I 
finally got my LARTs working, so I guess that means they work OK...

Eric

------------------------------------
Eric Johnson, Electrical Engineer
Advanced Communication Design
   7901 12th Avenue South
   Bloomington, MN 55425
Ph: 952-854-4000  Fax: 952-854-5774

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 19:17:52 2001
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:10:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: About PCMCIA, and also software
To: David Burg 
cc: LART list 
In-Reply-To: <005e01c0de3e$94ccc400$2502a8c0@cwx053>
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On Wed 16 May, David Burg wrote:

> Also, as I say the root file system image provide with this embedone board
> is not ready, and I'm searching for one embedded linux distribution. They
> are many links on the web to projects, but I'm never able to found
> something I can use (I need only gcc, some devloppement tools like
> automake, a package manager to install libraries link libc and stdlibc++).
> Problably most of you got good links that I miss. Can someone help me ?

As erik said, that's not really what embedded distros have, and on the whole
you want those applications on your host (desktop) machine rather than on
your target board, but if you really do want this stuff on a small ARM system
then the only option Icurrently now of is the 'intimate' distribution which
is derived from the 'familiar' distro for ipaqs. This is 70Mb of stuff to go
onto a CF card or microdrive and gives you a native development environment
on the ipaq. Making it work on a LART or possibly the embedone baord
shouldn't be too hard.

I don't know how finished it is (not very at this stage) or the URL (sorry).

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 20:02:10 2001
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:53:52 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Wookey 
Cc: David Burg , LART list 
Subject: Re: About PCMCIA, and also software
Message-ID: <20010517195352.I12745@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 06:10:26PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> As erik said, that's not really what embedded distros have, and on the whole
> you want those applications on your host (desktop) machine rather than on
> your target board, but if you really do want this stuff on a small ARM system
> then the only option Icurrently now of is the 'intimate' distribution which
> is derived from the 'familiar' distro for ipaqs. This is 70Mb of stuff to go
> onto a CF card or microdrive and gives you a native development environment
> on the ipaq. Making it work on a LART or possibly the embedone baord
> shouldn't be too hard.
> 
> I don't know how finished it is (not very at this stage) or the URL (sorry).

Familiar 0.4 was released a couple of days ago. URL is
http://familiar.handhelds.org/ . I have it running on an Ipaq, it's
quite nice. The best I could find about Intimate is this:

  http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IntimateDistribution

I know the Familiar guys usually hang out on the #familiar, #ipaq, and
#intimate IRC channels on irc.openprojects.net, so they might know
more.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 05:30:48PM +0200, roberto vescovi wrote:
> I'm very enteresting to realize LART Hw with Ksb and Ethernet in my new
> project but after some  week  of studing on  schematic and software of  LART
> platform there are some questions to ask.
>  
> 1) In the schematic of CPLD U9 (ksb_rev2_u9.pdf ) there are no pin  of Ps/2
> mouse , Keyboard and IRDA controls that are present on the LART schematic.
> it is last release ???? and if no where can download the new complete
> schematic of CPLD  ?

Yes, it is the latest release. The reason why it's not connected is
because we simply didn't test it yet. It should be straightforward,
though, and I plan to use the framework from Vojtech Pavlik's input
drivers (http:////www.suse.cz/development/input/ ).

> 3) Where can find the Gerber of KSB and Ethernet card ?

They're not there yet. Now the ethernet works, we will release a
revised Gerber file real soon. I also don't see any major objections in
holding back the KSB Gerbers as soon as we have build up and tested a
rev3 KSB.

> 2) For my project i think to connect a LCD 320x200 8bpp on LART  with
> resistive touchScreen with X  capability.
> Whitch is the last Kernel release of Linux and relative patch for this
> implementation and where can find it ?

I send all my changes to Nicolas Pitre, so you can find it in his
patch.

> 3) Where i can found a ramdisk image with simple X window  ?

AFAIK there is no ramdisk with X windows. The closest you can get is to
use Nicolas Pitre's ramdisk and put the X server from www.handhelds.org
on it.
  
> 4) Haw can debug my simple Hello.c application with GDB5-0 and DDD on 
> Host x86 Pc Hardware and LART target via Serial com ?

No idea, I never use debuggers in interactive mode. I only use a
debugger to get a stack trace from a core file, which is usually enough
to know where the real bug is.

> 5) Haw can apply diff-2.3.99-pre3-rmk3-np2-em1.gz  and diff-2.3.99-pre3-  
> rmk3-np2-em2.gz  to my Kernel linux-2.3.99-pre3.gz

Don't do that, those are patches against ancient kernels which are
known to contain bugs! All the necessary stuff is in Nico's patch, so
you should use his latest patch. I'm currently using
linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np2 which is proven to be stable on LART, and I plan
to upgrade to linux-2.4.4-rmk2-np1 this week.

See http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/ for links to the relevant
FTP sites. Nico's ramdisk can be get from the same FTP site as where he
uploads his kernel patches.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 22:10:05 2001
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From: Nicolas Pitre 
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To: Erik Mouw 
cc: Ralf van de Ven , LART list 
Subject: Re: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
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On Sat, 12 May 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:

> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:14:14PM +0200, Ralf van de Ven wrote:
> > I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
> > Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does linux support that
> > ?
>
> No. You can set up the serial ports to either a single serial port that
> supports RTS and CTS, or two simple serial ports without RTS and CTS.
> The latter is being used in arm-linux, and AFAIK the driver doesn't
> even support the former (I'm sure Nicolas will correct me if I'm
> wrong :).

Actually none of the SA11x0 UARTs implement hardware flow control directly.
It can easily be implemented with spare GPIOs and some code in the serial
driver though.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 22:18:53 2001
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:15:22 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
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OK, looks like someone tries to be funny and is creating a mail loop.
I just installed a couple of Majordomo taboo headers to prevent this.
Hope it works.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Test to see if the taboo headers work...


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:21:16 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Ralf van de Ven 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: RS232 inc flowcontrol.
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On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:14:14PM +0200, Ralf van de Ven wrote:
> I was looking for RS232 on a Strongarm wich does have rts/cts.
> Intel seemd to simply map the rts/cts in the memory, does linux support that
> ?

No. You can set up the serial ports to either a single serial port that
supports RTS and CTS, or two simple serial ports without RTS and CTS.
The latter is being used in arm-linux, and AFAIK the driver doesn't
even support the former (I'm sure Nicolas will correct me if I'm
wrong :).

> Does anyone know any designs including rts/cts wich are supported by linux.

It's not a problem with the hardware: every SA11x0 design supports it.
The problem is the software.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 17 23:35:46 2001
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[Reposted on behalf of "Terrance Sullivan" 
; reply to him not me. Again, due to 
spam, postings to this list are only accepted from subscribers *using 
the address they are subscribed through*]

| At 15:08 +0200 16-05-2001, Giuseppe Ottaviano wrote:
| >  > Use a Philips UDA1341 on the SSP serial port, like for example Assabet
| >>  and iPaq.
| >>
| >Hi, I' studying about the couple UDA1341-SA11x0 too.
| >I understood that in Assabet the SSP clock is given by the SDRAM clock, but
| >this is incompatible with clock scaling.
|
| It's also IMNSHO an ugly hack. When I spoke with the Assabet designer
| he told me that he wanted to use the absolute minimum in components.

This is interesting JD and I'm not so sure about describing this as a "hack" so
much but the way I heard the story was that this was a "last minute" Intel
marketing "requirement" on the Assabet design team to demonstrate the UDA1341
with an absolute minimium number of components, as Intel was attempting to
influence a particularly large customer at the time who had specific "ideas"
about this... I gather the lesson here is that, as in life one does not always
control all aspects of a design... mind you I believe Intel was successful in
acquiring the custumer's business which is what it's all about in the end...
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun May 20 18:03:15 2001
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Subject: Which kernel+patches version?
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Sat, 12 May 2001 Erik Mouw wrote:
> I'm currently using
> linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np2 which is proven to be stable on LART, and I plan
> to upgrade to linux-2.4.4-rmk2-np1 this week.

I cannot see the -np2 patch, only -np1:
ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/diff-2.4.3-rmk2-np1.gz

Was it really -np2 ?

I made 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 instead (using LART toolchain from Aleph CD),
which went till "... done, booting the kernel.", than hung. (Did not
try 2.4.4-rmk2-np1.)

Now I would highly appreciate any reccomendation for working recent
combination of kernel+patches+toolchain (I want UCB audio).

Thanks

Vaclav
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 21 11:33:32 2001
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Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:25:29 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Which kernel+patches version?
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On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:58:01PM +0200, hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
> Sat, 12 May 2001 Erik Mouw wrote:
> > I'm currently using
> > linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np2 which is proven to be stable on LART, and I plan
> > to upgrade to linux-2.4.4-rmk2-np1 this week.
> 
> I cannot see the -np2 patch, only -np1:
> ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/n/nico/diff-2.4.3-rmk2-np1.gz
> 
> Was it really -np2 ?

Sorry, typo, it was -np1.

> I made 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 instead (using LART toolchain from Aleph CD),
> which went till "... done, booting the kernel.", than hung. (Did not
> try 2.4.4-rmk2-np1.)

Apparently something wrong in the configuration file, most probably
CONFIG_ANGELBOOT enabled. This is the recommended way to make a new
kernel:

    make lart_config
    make oldconfig
     (use your common sense when something is different)

  To make large changes (like running from a hard disk instead of
  ramdisk):

    make menuconfig

  Compile kernel and modules:

    make dep clean zImage
    make modules

Note that linux-2.4.4-* has a bug in its fork() code that particularly
shows when using initrd. That (and the fact that I have to give a demo)
is the reason I'm still with 2.4.3-rmk2-np1. Linux-2.4.5-pre1 contains
a fix for this, and Russell King's next patch (probably 2.4.4-rmk4)
will also contain that fix.

> Now I would highly appreciate any reccomendation for working recent
> combination of kernel+patches+toolchain (I want UCB audio).

Linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 works for me with both ramdisk and harddisk.
Linux-2.4.4-rmk3-np1 might work as well, but I didn't test it on LART.
If you want to try, go ahead, but be sure to apply the following patch
to fix (or actually revert) the fork() behaviour:

diff -u --recursive --new-file v2.4.4/linux/kernel/fork.c
linux/kernel/fork.c
--- v2.4.4/linux/kernel/fork.c	Thu Apr 26 06:11:17 2001
+++ linux/kernel/fork.c	Mon Apr 30 22:23:29 2001
@@ -666,17 +666,15 @@
 	p->pdeath_signal = 0;
 
 	/*
-	 * Give the parent's dynamic priority entirely to the child.  The
-	 * total amount of dynamic priorities in the system doesn't change
-	 * (more scheduling fairness), but the child will run first, which
-	 * is especially useful in avoiding a lot of copy-on-write faults
-	 * if the child for a fork() just wants to do a few simple things
-	 * and then exec(). This is only important in the first timeslice.
-	 * In the long run, the scheduling behavior is unchanged.
+	 * "share" dynamic priority between parent and child, thus the
+	 * total amount of dynamic priorities in the system doesnt change,
+	 * more scheduling fairness. This is only important in the first
+	 * timeslice, on the long run the scheduling behaviour is unchanged.
 	 */
-	p->counter = current->counter;
-	current->counter = 0;
-	current->need_resched = 1;
+	p->counter = (current->counter + 1) >> 1;
+	current->counter >>= 1;
+	if (!current->counter)
+		current->need_resched = 1;
 
 	/*
 	 * Ok, add it to the run-queues and make it

I didn't test UCB audio lately, so you have to find out for yourself if
it works.


Erik

PS: If you save this message, you can run it immediately through patch.
  The patch program is smart enough to find the real patch in the file
  and ignore the junk, no need to edit it.

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 21 14:45:13 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: kernel patches
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Hi!

I just downloaded the latest patches from ftp.netwinder.org (to compile
2.4.3 for LART) and then I discovered a patch called

   diff-2.4.3-rmk2-xs1.gz

What is this? xs1???

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

In my end is my beginning.
		-- Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za       Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.co.za    South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 21 20:35:34 2001
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Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:25:21 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: kernel patches
Message-ID: <20010521202521.B7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 02:41:50PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I just downloaded the latest patches from ftp.netwinder.org (to compile
> 2.4.3 for LART) and then I discovered a patch called
> 
>    diff-2.4.3-rmk2-xs1.gz
> 
> What is this? xs1???

xs = XScale (aka StrongARM-2), Intel's new ARM CPU.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 21 21:17:03 2001
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Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:10:54 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Doron Sandroy 
Cc: linux-arm@lists.arm.linux.org.uk, Lart List ,
        Linux-Arm-Kernel List 
Subject: Re: some beginner's questions
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On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:28:20PM +0200, Doron Sandroy wrote:
> 1. how can I import the .mbox raw archive to outlook 2000 ?

No idea. Microsoft support knows, I guess. Netscape has no problems
with it.

> 2. I need a whole package of bootloader+kernel+ramdisk that allows me to use
> more than 4Mb of ramdisk. Does it exist ?

Don't. If you want such a large ramdisk you actually want a JFFS2 root
filesystem on /dev/mtdblock*.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 21 21:31:46 2001
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Outlook Express can import the MBOX, I think. I think that's how I did it...
or maybe I went MBOX -> Eudora ->Outlook Express -> Outlook 2000. Something
like that.

At any rate, Outlook Express is a major factor in the translation process.

-Randy Glenn

New record for time between Windows reinstalls: 4 months.
=================================================
     PICxpert@home.com - PICxpert@yahoo.com
               Randy_Glenn@tvo.org
PICxpert.com going away - use picxpert.dyndns.org
    Not that the site works yet, of course...
=================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On
Behalf Of Erik Mouw
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:11 PM
To: Doron Sandroy
Cc: linux-arm@lists.arm.linux.org.uk; Lart List; Linux-Arm-Kernel List
Subject: Re: some beginner's questions


On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:28:20PM +0200, Doron Sandroy wrote:
> 1. how can I import the .mbox raw archive to outlook 2000 ?

No idea. Microsoft support knows, I guess. Netscape has no problems
with it.

> 2. I need a whole package of bootloader+kernel+ramdisk that allows me to
use
> more than 4Mb of ramdisk. Does it exist ?

Don't. If you want such a large ramdisk you actually want a JFFS2 root
filesystem on /dev/mtdblock*.


Erik

--
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/
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Hi!

Does somebody have a linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 configuration file (.config) for
me to browse through.

Thanks in advance

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

All the simple programs have been written.

______________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing,
 eEnterprise, Application, Embedded

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451       Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549          Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648          Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za       Kenilworth, 7700
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: configuration file
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On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:40:11AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Does somebody have a linux-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 configuration file (.config) for
> me to browse through.

Just run "make lart_config; make oldconfig" and you'll have an
up-to-date .config file.


Erik

-- 
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Hi!

Why is blob defaulting to 9600 baud? Is this just a paranoia setting cuz I'm
considering changing the source to always use 115200 baud --- If I have to
press Alt-O  x 3 e i   .............. etc one more time
that I upload a kernel/ramdisk I'm going to die (;

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Bushydo -- the way of the shrub.  Bonsai!

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 16:41:38 2001
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Hi!

What process does the kernel first execute when it boots up. I thought it
was /linuxrc but it doesn't seem to be the case.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Genius is ten percent inspiration and fifty percent capital gains.

__________________________________________________________
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 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 17:36:37 2001
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Thanks to Eric for his answer.

> > I made 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 ...
> > went till "... done, booting the kernel.", than hung.
>
> Apparently something wrong in the configuration file, most probably
> CONFIG_ANGELBOOT enabled.

Actually the config generated by "make lart_config; make oldconfig"
does not contain the string "ANGELBOOT" at all, not even in line like
"# CONFIG_ANGELBOOT is not set".

However, looking at SA1100 list archives, I found:

> diff-2.4.4-rmk3-np1
> - switched to a new, cleaner, prettier serial driver for SA1100

Ah! For sure I was not ready for this shiny new driver yet. So, in
make oldconfig:

Old (original) SA1100 serial port support (CONFIG_SERIAL_SA1100_OLD) [N/y/?] (NEW) y

and the kernel boots now.

I also applied Erik's fork() fix and used UCB1200 audio and ADC in
this kernel compile (as modules), but I guess the serial driver was my
problem.

Hell, it was really worth it to connect that handy microswitch to
RESET :)

The mp3disk.uu from Aleph One site seems to work with this kernel.

Going to try UCB1200 mic input...

Best Regards

Vaclav
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 17:53:59 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:50:40 +0200
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At 16:38 +0200 22-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Why is blob defaulting to 9600 baud? Is this just a paranoia setting

That is one reason. IMO a boot loader should be conservative in its 
default settings. Using 9600N1 works with a lot more peripherals 
(from VT100s to HP calculators), which is handy for on-site 
debugging. Besides, the Linux serial console defaults to 9600 baud as 
well AFAICR.

>  cuz I'm
>considering changing the source to always use 115200 baud --- If I have to
>press Alt-O  x 3 e i   .............. etc one more time
>that I upload a kernel/ramdisk I'm going to die (;

Go ahead, you have the source. Don't forget to change the kernel as well.

JDB
[or change to minicom, where it's just Ctrl-A P I ]
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 20:08:53 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:06:53 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 9600 baud default
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On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:38:14PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Why is blob defaulting to 9600 baud? Is this just a paranoia setting cuz I'm

Because that's the default in the Unix world. In this way you can use
any terminal (VT100, Palm Pilot, Nokia phone, etc) as boot terminal for
a LART.

I even filed a bug report to a vendor of RAID disk systems because
their system defaulted to 115k2 so I couldn't use the VT220 terminal we
keep in the machine room to be used as console on quite some big iron
SGI machines.

> considering changing the source to always use 115200 baud --- If I have to
> press Alt-O  x 3 e i   .............. etc one more time
> that I upload a kernel/ramdisk I'm going to die (;

Use the script that Wookey send to this list a couple of weeks ago.
(btw, Alt-p i  is enough to switch to 115k2 in minicom)


Erik

-- 
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Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 20:34:05 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:55:59 +0530
From: Mayuresh A Kathe 
Subject: What would be the best hardware combo?
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Hi,

I was just wondering what would be the best hardware combo to do the
following with StrongARM as the main processor?
1. Ethernet
2. 32bpp colour output
3. Keyboard input
4. Mouse input
5. USB interfaces
6. Solid State Disk

Awaiting your reply.

~Mayuresh

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 22 20:52:57 2001
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:48:48 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Mayuresh A Kathe 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
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On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 11:55:59PM +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote:
> I was just wondering what would be the best hardware combo to do the
> following with StrongARM as the main processor?
> 1. Ethernet

Crystal cs8900.

> 2. 32bpp colour output

Not possible. The SA1100 built in LCD controller dan do 16bpp at
maximum, see section 11.7 from the SA1100 manual. Even if it could do
32bpp, you won't be able to find a 32bpp LCD.

> 3. Keyboard input
> 4. Mouse input

Easy with the CPLD and the linux-input stuff, but low on my to do list.

> 5. USB interfaces

USB client sort of works, USB master needs SA11x1.

> 6. Solid State Disk

Any CF memory device will do.


Erik

-- 
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:50:15 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 1st process
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On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:42:09PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> What process does the kernel first execute when it boots up. I thought it
> was /linuxrc but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Process 1 is /sbin/init, unless you tell the kernel to support initrd
(see Documentation/initrd.txt).


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Subject: Re: 1st process
From: Russ Dill 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
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On 22 May 2001 20:50:15 +0200, Erik Mouw wrote:
> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:42:09PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > What process does the kernel first execute when it boots up. I thought it
> > was /linuxrc but it doesn't seem to be the case.
> 
> Process 1 is /sbin/init, unless you tell the kernel to support initrd
> (see Documentation/initrd.txt).

If you're more inquisitive than normal....init/main.c:

        if (execute_command)
                execve(execute_command,argv_init,envp_init);
        execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
        execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
        execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
        execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);
        panic("No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel.");

where execute_command is the init= paramater

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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:27:54 +0530
From: Mayuresh A Kathe 
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
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>> following with StrongARM as the main processor?
>> 1. Ethernet
> Crystal cs8900.
OK...
Are the drivers easily available?
How is the performance?

>> 2. 32bpp colour output
> Not possible. The SA1100 built in LCD controller dan do 16bpp at
> maximum, see section 11.7 from the SA1100 manual. Even if it could do
> 32bpp, you won't be able to find a 32bpp LCD.

Not for LCD, its for monitor output...

>> 3. Keyboard input
>> 4. Mouse input
> Easy with the CPLD and the linux-input stuff, but low on my to do 
list.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is CPLD?
How can I do that?

>> 5. USB interfaces
> USB client sort of works, USB master needs SA11x1.

>> 6. Solid State Disk
> Any CF memory device will do.
I was thinking of M-Sys DOC, they have got a new flash called 
Millenium Plus, its neat, with desirable features like write 
protection,
user configurable partitioning, etc...

Awaiting your reply.

~Mayuresh

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Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
From: Russ Dill 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Cc: Mayuresh A Kathe 
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On 23 May 2001 09:27:54 +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote:
> 
> >> following with StrongARM as the main processor?
> >> 1. Ethernet
> > Crystal cs8900.
> OK...
> Are the drivers easily available?
> How is the performance?

performance is among the best, and drivers exist and work well

> >> 2. 32bpp colour output
> > Not possible. The SA1100 built in LCD controller dan do 16bpp at
> > maximum, see section 11.7 from the SA1100 manual. Even if it could do
> > 32bpp, you won't be able to find a 32bpp LCD.
> 
> Not for LCD, its for monitor output...

umm...really don't know here, maybe some isa chip, what is your
application? ctt doesn't sounh all that embedded, maybe arm isn't what
you are looking for

> >> 3. Keyboard input
> >> 4. Mouse input
> > Easy with the CPLD and the linux-input stuff, but low on my to do 
> list.
> Sorry for my ignorance, but what is CPLD?
> How can I do that?

same as above, mouse, crt, keyboard...

> >> 6. Solid State Disk
> > Any CF memory device will do.
> I was thinking of M-Sys DOC, they have got a new flash called 
> Millenium Plus, its neat, with desirable features like write 
> protection,
> user configurable partitioning, etc...

what kind of things will this system be doing? partitioning is generally
a software interpetation thing and can be done on any medium. Usually on
strongarm systems you are looking at standard flash for your storage,
but I can see using an msystems for bulk if you need that much and the
price is right

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Subject: Re: 1st process
From: Russ Dill 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <20010523084854.A24635@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On 23 May 2001 08:48:54 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi Russ!
> 
> > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:42:09PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > > > What process does the kernel first execute when it boots up. I thought it
> > > > was /linuxrc but it doesn't seem to be the case.
> > > 
> > > Process 1 is /sbin/init, unless you tell the kernel to support initrd
> > > (see Documentation/initrd.txt).
> > 
> > If you're more inquisitive than normal....init/main.c:
> > 
> >         if (execute_command)
> >                 execve(execute_command,argv_init,envp_init);
> >         execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >         execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >         execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
> >         execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);
> >         panic("No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel.");
> > 
> > where execute_command is the init= paramater
> 
> Yes, that's exactly what I thought, but what bothers me
> is I have CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD defined in my .config (with which I compile
> my kernel) so /linuxrc should be compiled which doesn't happen.
> 
> Anyway, that doesn't address the real problem. I'm using busybox's init in
> my ramdisk (which is just a symlink to busybox), but it doesn't work. Is
> this because the kernel can't handle symlinks at that stage? Just looking at
> init.c I can see filesystem_setup() is called right in the beginning of
> init(), so it should be able to handle symlinks, no?

if you compile in initrd, and it finds a ramdisk (and root != /dev/rma0)
then it well exec /linuxrc. If you make a symlink from linuxrc to
busybox (or busybox named init), this won't work, because busybox will
think you are trying to run some app, linuxrc, which busybox doesn't
understand. Linuxrc should be a shell script that does the appropriate
things, mounts root, pivot_root, and then an exec chroot of init. (see
initrd.txt). Altough, I would recommend just using sysvinit and ash as a
shell

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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 9600 baud default
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Hi Erik!

> > considering changing the source to always use 115200 baud --- If I have=
 to
> > press Alt-O  x 3 e i   .............. etc one more =
time
> > that I upload a kernel/ramdisk I'm going to die (;
>=20
> Use the script that Wookey send to this list a couple of weeks ago.

Hmm, could somebody please send it to me - the archive on tudelft is a plain
text file. I'm not really brave enough to go search through a 4mb plain text
file for a script.

> (btw, Alt-p i  is enough to switch to 115k2 in minicom)

Damn, if I only knew that yesterday :P Would still prefer a script though...

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Entropy isn't what it used to be.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: 1st process
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Hi Russ!

> > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:42:09PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > > What process does the kernel first execute when it boots up. I though=
t it
> > > was /linuxrc but it doesn't seem to be the case.
> >=20
> > Process 1 is /sbin/init, unless you tell the kernel to support initrd
> > (see Documentation/initrd.txt).
>=20
> If you're more inquisitive than normal....init/main.c:
>=20
>         if (execute_command)
>                 execve(execute_command,argv_init,envp_init);
>         execve("/sbin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>         execve("/etc/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>         execve("/bin/init",argv_init,envp_init);
>         execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);
>         panic("No init found.  Try passing init=3D option to kernel.");
>=20
> where execute_command is the init=3D paramater

Yes, that's exactly what I thought, but what bothers me
is I have CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD defined in my .config (with which I compile
my kernel) so /linuxrc should be compiled which doesn't happen.

Anyway, that doesn't address the real problem. I'm using busybox's init in
my ramdisk (which is just a symlink to busybox), but it doesn't work. Is
this because the kernel can't handle symlinks at that stage? Just looking at
init.c I can see filesystem_setup() is called right in the beginning of
init(), so it should be able to handle symlinks, no?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Never argue with a fool -- people might not be able to tell the difference.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
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Hi!

Just realised I have a small Catch 22 on my system. Not every difficult to
solve, but it might be in everone's best interest to change the default.

I wanted to use the Alt-SysRq-.. hotkey on LART but since my kernel also
have that same hotkey defined, my kernel keeps catching the key. Maybe
somebody should change the kernel so that you can specify the key with make
menuconfig and friends.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Yow!

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:24:31 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Mayuresh A Kathe 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
Message-ID: <20010523112431.F7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:27:54AM +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote:
> >> following with StrongARM as the main processor?
> >> 1. Ethernet
> > Crystal cs8900.
> OK...
> Are the drivers easily available?

Of course. This is linux.

> How is the performance?

Good.

> >> 2. 32bpp colour output
> > Not possible. The SA1100 built in LCD controller dan do 16bpp at
> > maximum, see section 11.7 from the SA1100 manual. Even if it could do
> > 32bpp, you won't be able to find a 32bpp LCD.
> 
> Not for LCD, its for monitor output...

Read the SA1100 manual. You can't use the SA1100 LCD controller to do
32bpp.

If you really want to do 32bpp monitor output, you should use an old
Vesa Local Bus VGA chip and connect that to the SA1100 bus (IIRC there
are still some C&T chips available). Not that I see any kind of use for
a 32bpp display for an embedded device...

> >> 3. Keyboard input
> >> 4. Mouse input
> > Easy with the CPLD and the linux-input stuff, but low on my to do 
> list.
> Sorry for my ignorance, but what is CPLD?

Programmable logic device, as used on the KSB.

> How can I do that?

Lattice CPLD programming tools can be downloaded from the Lattice web
site. Then download the linux-input project code from sourceforge.net,
integrate it into the kernel source (easy) and write a driver for the
KSB keyboard and mouse interfaces.

> >> 6. Solid State Disk
> > Any CF memory device will do.
> I was thinking of M-Sys DOC, they have got a new flash called 
> Millenium Plus, its neat, with desirable features like write 
> protection,
> user configurable partitioning, etc...

Sounds like a lot of marketese that should be handled with a generous
amount of common sense. Lots of flash chips have some kind of write
protection, and partitioning is handled by the OS, so it doesn't sound
too special.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: Erik Mouw 
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Subject: Re: troubles
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:09:03AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I wanted to use the Alt-SysRq-.. hotkey on LART but since my kernel also
> have that same hotkey defined, my kernel keeps catching the key. Maybe
> somebody should change the kernel so that you can specify the key with make
> menuconfig and friends.

There is no Catch 22, magic sysrq on serial consoles is defined as
Break. Use Alt-F in minicom to send a break character.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 9600 baud default
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:51:35AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > Use the script that Wookey send to this list a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> Hmm, could somebody please send it to me - the archive on tudelft is a plain
> text file. I'm not really brave enough to go search through a 4mb plain text
> file for a script.

Oh, it's very easy. Download the archive, point your mail reader to it,
and just browse as if it is a normal mailbox. Elm, Pine, Mutt, Kmail,
Evolution, Netscape, etc. have no problems with it.

> > (btw, Alt-p i  is enough to switch to 115k2 in minicom)
> 
> Damn, if I only knew that yesterday :P Would still prefer a script though...

Well, minicom prints "Alt-Z for help" in its status bar. Pressing Alt-Z
gives you the help screen, which says in the second line "Commands can
be called by ALT-"...


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Hi!

> The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
> drivers instead.=20

How do you write the kernel/ramdisk to flash using the MTD drivers? IMHO
this should be in the LART faq.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Maryann's Law:
	You can always find what you're not looking for.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: "Thomas S. Iversen" 
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
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> Lattice CPLD programming tools can be downloaded from the Lattice web

Being new to CPLD programming (but an old dog at linux)i, I was wondering
if there is any good CPLD development tools for linux. I mean any good
VHDL and ABEL tools??

Btw. While the Lart is a great product (in more than one sense), it 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas S. Iversen                            | email: zensonic@diku.dk
Student at Department of Computer Science.   | phone: +45 35282360
University of Copenhagen, DIKU.              | shoesize: 45


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 <20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
 <20010523121140.A29238@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:29:12 +0200
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
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At 12:11 +0200 23-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>Hi!
>
>>  The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
>>  drivers instead.
>
>How do you write the kernel/ramdisk to flash using the MTD drivers? IMHO
>this should be in the LART faq.

Patches for this (and other possible omissions) are gladly accepted.

JDB.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                      -- Arthur Kasspe
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Hi Erik!

> > I wanted to use the Alt-SysRq-.. hotkey on LART but since my kernel also
> > have that same hotkey defined, my kernel keeps catching the key. Maybe
> > somebody should change the kernel so that you can specify the key with =
make
> > menuconfig and friends.
>=20
> There is no Catch 22, magic sysrq on serial consoles is defined as
> Break. Use Alt-F in minicom to send a break character.

This doesn't seem to work on this side. E.g Alt-F h shows nothing (except
for the minicom "Sending Break" window popping up of course. Can't do
Alt-f-h either since then minicom thinks I want to send a hangup

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Reserve your abuse for your true friends.
             -- Larry Wall in <199712041852.KAA19364@wall.org>

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 23 12:49:22 2001
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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:47:47 +0200
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At 12:24 +0200 23-05-2001, Thomas S. Iversen wrote:
>  > Lattice CPLD programming tools can be downloaded from the Lattice web
>
>Being new to CPLD programming (but an old dog at linux)i, I was wondering
>if there is any good CPLD development tools for linux. I mean any good
>VHDL and ABEL tools??

Never tried them myself, but there is http://www.freehdl.seul.org/ .

While the Lattice compiler only runs in Windows (never tried Wine, 
though), they have source code for downloading the JEDEC files on an 
embedded platform. I've wired the UCB1200 on the KSB such that it 
could program the CPLDs; haven't gotten around to actually writing 
the code for that yet though.

>Btw. While the Lart is a great product (in more than one sense), it

Ah, I see our new Opposing-Opinions-Censor is working well ;-)

JDB.
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/
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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:56:43 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: troubles
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References: <20010523110903.B28287@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <20010523112952.G7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> <20010523123152.A29628@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:31:52PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> This doesn't seem to work on this side. E.g Alt-F h shows nothing (except
> for the minicom "Sending Break" window popping up of course. Can't do
> Alt-f-h either since then minicom thinks I want to send a hangup

You're too fast, you're doing Alt-F Alt-H, and Alt-H is hangup.


Erik
[who didn't try if the new serial driver has proper Magig sysrq support]

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Hi Erik!

> > This doesn't seem to work on this side. E.g Alt-F h shows nothing (exce=
pt
> > for the minicom "Sending Break" window popping up of course. Can't do
> > Alt-f-h either since then minicom thinks I want to send a hangup
>=20
> You're too fast, you're doing Alt-F Alt-H, and Alt-H is hangup.

Ok, I see what you mean. This is useless though, since I can't do a magic
sysrq if I have messages scrolling all over the screen if I have to wait
this long before pressing H

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Counting in octal is just like counting in decimal--if you don't use your t=
humbs.
		-- Tom Lehrer

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Hi!

this is probably not the best list to post this to, but does anyone know if
there is an arm ldd equivalent? It sucks not being able to check what shared
libraries binaries is linked to. Is there any other ways to accomplish this?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

True happiness will be found only in true love.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From: "Thomas S. Iversen" 
To: "J.D. Bakker" 
cc: Erik Mouw , lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
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> Never tried them myself, but there is http://www.freehdl.seul.org/ .

Thanks.

> Ah, I see our new Opposing-Opinions-Censor is working well ;-)

*Grin* or an error on my behalf (damn pine mailer. Sometimes I end up
deleting lines before sending the actual mail).

What I intended to say was just that "While the Lart is a great
piece of hardware (in more than one sense), it unfortunatly is to
expensive to build for a student --- atleast in single piece
quantities. Not that it is your Lart peoples fault, not at all, but it is
a pity anyhow - could help a lot of people learning about embedded systems
from more powerfull hardware than the traditional 8051

Yours Thomas, Denmark

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas S. Iversen                            | email: zensonic@diku.dk
Student at Department of Computer Science.   | phone: +45 35282360
University of Copenhagen, DIKU.              | shoesize: 45

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On Tue 22 May, Erik Mouw wrote:
> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:38:14PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > --- If I have to
> > press Alt-O  x 3 e i   .............. etc one more time
> > that I upload a kernel/ramdisk I'm going to die (;

It is tedious isn't it :-(

> Use the script that Wookey send to this list a couple of weeks ago.
> (btw, Alt-p i  is enough to switch to 115k2 in minicom)

I've just added this to my lart resources page to save people looking back
through the archives. http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/resources.html

HTH

Wookey
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 23 16:04:34 2001
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From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: What would be the best hardware combo?
To: LART list 
cc: Mayuresh A Kathe 
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On Wed 23 May, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > >> 2. 32bpp colour output

> > Not for LCD, its for monitor output...
> 
> If you really want to do 32bpp monitor output, you should use an old
> Vesa Local Bus VGA chip and connect that to the SA1100 bus (IIRC there
> are still some C&T chips available). 

The VIDC chip used in RISCOS machines does 32bpp (well, 24bpp+alpha or
something). It is designed to interfact with ARM and there is already a linux
driver for it. Not sure if you can still buy them though, or if it works
properly without the other support chips (IOMD2 and MEMC) which have always
been used as a set up to now. Castle technology are still making machines
with them in...


Wookey
-- 
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work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:08:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: ldd
To: abraham@2d3d.co.za
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On Wed 23 May, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> this is probably not the best list to post this to, but does anyone know if
> there is an arm ldd equivalent? 

yes - it's called ldd :-)

Just add it to you ramdisk and use it as you obviously have done before. Or
is the problem that you want to be able to check the library linkages on an
ARM ramdisk on a host machine of some other architecture? In that case
objdump will tell you what you need to know - eg objdump -p 

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Subject: Re: ldd
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Hi Wookey!

> > this is probably not the best list to post this to, but does anyone kno=
w if
> > there is an arm ldd equivalent?=20
>=20
> yes - it's called ldd :-)

duh (:

> Just add it to you ramdisk and use it as you obviously have done before. =
Or
> is the problem that you want to be able to check the library linkages on =
an
> ARM ramdisk on a host machine of some other architecture? In that case
> objdump will tell you what you need to know - eg objdump -p 

Yes, I was referring to the latter. Thanks, objdump works just fine

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

In case of atomic attack, the federal ruling against prayer in schools
will be temporarily canceled.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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On Wed, 23 May 2001, Erik Mouw wrote:

> [who didn't try if the new serial driver has proper Magig sysrq support]

It doesn't.  Contribution welcome of course.  Since the core driver is
shared amongst few different serial hardware, then adding sysrq support in
the core driver will enable them all.


Nicolas

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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: UCB1200 audio works
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20010523112431.F7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
	
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Hi,

Microphone UCB1200 input on LART works for me. There were few minor
problems which are worth publishing to make it easier for others:

- quite recent kernel is needed, I used 2.4.4-rmk3-np1

- say "y" to "Old (original) SA1100 serial port support?", otherwise
  "booting the kernel." will be the last message you see

- compile UCB1200 support (in General section) directly to the kernel.

  If you compile it as module, you will have to insmod
  ucb1200_sa1100.o before ucb1200_generic.o and ALSO insmod
  ucb1200_generic.o before ucb1200_sa1100.o. :))) Look:

   bash-2.01# insmod ucb1200_sa1100.o
   ucb1200_sa1100.o: unresolved symbol ucb1200_set_io
   bash-2.01# insmod ucb1200_generic.o
   ucb1200_generic.o: unresolved symbol arch_ucb1200_ops

  Kernel source explains this:

   ucb1200_generic.c:EXPORT_SYMBOL(ucb1200_set_io);
   ucb1200_sa1100.c:EXPORT_SYMBOL(arch_ucb1200_ops);

  So, until this is fixed, do not compile as module.


- UCB1200 audio is in section "Character devices"

  Maybe here you could compile module, I did not.

- You may want to change AUDIO_GAIN_DEFAULT in
  drivers/char/ucb1200_audio.h (I use 0)

  Of cause this is nasty and makes sense only if you consider kernel
  recompile easier than copying mixer to your ramdisk :)

- You need device file - I made this 8kHz 16bit one:

     mknod /dev/ucb c 42 5

  (but I guess it should have other name)

- You can see parameters using cat /proc/audio

- All done - see mic input:  ./Ameter 
#include 

int chunk_size = 2000; /* how many input samples per one output line */

main(){
  short inp;
  int chunk_cnt = 0;
  int max_a = -32000;
  int min_a = 32000;
  while( fread( &inp, 2, 1, stdin) ){
    if( inp > max_a ) max_a = inp;
    if( inp < min_a ) min_a = inp;
    if( chunk_cnt-- <= 0 ){
      chunk_cnt = chunk_size;
      printf( "%d %d\n", min_a, max_a );
      fflush( stdout );
      max_a = -32000;
      min_a = 32000;
    }
  }
}
/////////////////////////////////////
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 23 18:15:58 2001
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Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
From: Russ Dill 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Cc: Abraham vd Merwe 
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
	<20010523121140.A29238@crystal.2d3d.co.za> 
	
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On 23 May 2001 12:29:12 +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> At 12:11 +0200 23-05-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> >Hi!
> >
> >>  The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
> >>  drivers instead.
> >
> >How do you write the kernel/ramdisk to flash using the MTD drivers? IMHO
> >this should be in the LART faq.
> 
> Patches for this (and other possible omissions) are gladly accepted.

As far as I know, the latest mtd CVS has all the options to support the
lart flash. the lart data bus mangling, support for intel cfi flash, and
the sa1100 mapping driver. Then its just eraseall /dev/mtd?, cat
kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd?

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Subject: Re: 1st process
From: Russ Dill 
To: Morten =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <0GDS00DAWPOY4Q@asu.edu>
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On 23 May 2001 18:01:00 +0200, Morten Bjørn wrote:
> Hi Russ
> 
> I just completed (or almost copied) a boot/root disk for i386 PC using 
> busybox.
> If you would like to see my changes just mail me
> 
> The one I copied was can be obtained from 
> ftp://opensource.lineo.com/busybox/busybox.floppy.img
> 
> As you can see below (the latest version of) busybox does handle linuxrc.
> 
> BusyBox v0.51 (2001.05.17-06:11+0000) multi-call binary
> Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]...
>    or: [function] [arguments]...
>  
>         BusyBox is a multi-call binary that combines many common Unix
>         utilities into a single executable.  Most people will create a
>         link to busybox for each function they wish to use, and BusyBox
>         will act like whatever it was invoked as.
>  
> Currently defined functions:
>         ar, basename, busybox, cat, chgrp, chmod, chown, chroot, chvt,
>         clear, cp, cut, date, dd, df, dirname, dmesg, du, echo, false,
>         find, free, grep, gunzip, gzip, halt, head, id, init, kill, killall,
>         klogd, linuxrc, ln, loadkmap, logger, ls, lsmod, md5sum, mkdir,
>         mknod, mkswap, more, mount, mv, ping, poweroff, ps, pwd, reboot,
>         reset, rm, rmdir, sed, sh, sleep, sort, swapoff, swapon, sync,
>         syslogd, tail, tar, telnet, touch, tr, true, tty, umount, uname,
>         uniq, uptime, wc, wget, which, whoami, xargs, yes, zcat
> 
> 

What errors do you utimately end up getting?

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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:09:54 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist ,
        Abraham vd Merwe 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
Message-ID: <20010523200954.P7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
References:  <20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> <20010523121140.A29238@crystal.2d3d.co.za>  <990634301.14414.1.camel@russ>
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:11:40AM -0700, Russ Dill wrote:
> On 23 May 2001 12:29:12 +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> > Patches for this (and other possible omissions) are gladly accepted.
> 
> As far as I know, the latest mtd CVS has all the options to support the
> lart flash. the lart data bus mangling, support for intel cfi flash, and
> the sa1100 mapping driver. Then its just eraseall /dev/mtd?, cat
> kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd?

Not really. The LART flash supports CFI, but the CFI command set for
that type of flash hasn't been written yet.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:13:12 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: UCB1200 audio works
Message-ID: <20010523201312.Q7958@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 06:07:02PM +0200, hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
> Microphone UCB1200 input on LART works for me. There were few minor
> problems which are worth publishing to make it easier for others:
> 
> - quite recent kernel is needed, I used 2.4.4-rmk3-np1

Cool!

> - You need device file - I made this 8kHz 16bit one:
> 
>      mknod /dev/ucb c 42 5
> 
>   (but I guess it should have other name)

Hmm, it should use the soundcore module, register as a sound driver and
automatically get /dev/dsp[0-3]. If you have time/knowledge, it's quite
easy to fix, just look at how the other sound drivers do it.


Thanks for testing,
Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 07:52:43 2001
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Sorry, I wanted to say: 47nF

Hope I'll stop spoiling this list with self-corrections.

Vaclav
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 07:52:47 2001
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I forgot yesterday:

- apply Erik's fork()-fixing patch (I used it after np1) sent to this
  list (Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:25:29,
  Subject: Re: Which kernel+patches version?)

- capacitor on UCB mic input is important (I used 47uF )

- works with mp3disk.uu

Regards

Vaclav
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
Message-ID: <20010524085117.B11704@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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Hi Russ!

> > >>  The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
> > >>  drivers instead.
> > >
> > >How do you write the kernel/ramdisk to flash using the MTD drivers? IM=
HO
> > >this should be in the LART faq.
> >=20
> > Patches for this (and other possible omissions) are gladly accepted.
>=20
> As far as I know, the latest mtd CVS has all the options to support the
> lart flash. the lart data bus mangling, support for intel cfi flash, and
> the sa1100 mapping driver. Then its just eraseall /dev/mtd?, cat
> kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd?

Well, apart the fact the driver isn't completely functional yet (see Erik's
email), what has so far eluded me is how you write the kernel/ramdisk to
flash without erasing blob - surely if your cat kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd
you'll erase blob, no?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

It is so soon that I am done for, I wonder what I was begun for.
		-- Epitaph, Cheltenham Churchyard

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
From: Russ Dill 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <20010524085117.B11704@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
References: 
	
	<20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On 24 May 2001 08:51:17 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi Russ!
> 
> > > >>  The ARM flash driver is no longer supported. You should use the MTD
> > > >>  drivers instead.
> > > >
> > > >How do you write the kernel/ramdisk to flash using the MTD drivers? IMHO
> > > >this should be in the LART faq.
> > > 
> > > Patches for this (and other possible omissions) are gladly accepted.
> > 
> > As far as I know, the latest mtd CVS has all the options to support the
> > lart flash. the lart data bus mangling, support for intel cfi flash, and
> > the sa1100 mapping driver. Then its just eraseall /dev/mtd?, cat
> > kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd?
> 
> Well, apart the fact the driver isn't completely functional yet (see Erik's
> email), what has so far eluded me is how you write the kernel/ramdisk to
> flash without erasing blob - surely if your cat kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd
> you'll erase blob, no?

Might want to use the patitioning part of mtd and make sure the version
of the sa1100 map has the definition of lart partitions in it

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Hi!

Does anybody have any idea what the 'RedBoot partition table parsing' option
in the kernel does?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery.
		-- Jack Paar

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:33:13 +0100 (BST)
From: kira brown 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
In-Reply-To: <990687893.20460.0.camel@russ>
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On 24 May 2001, Russ Dill wrote:

> On 24 May 2001 08:51:17 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > Well, apart the fact the driver isn't completely functional yet (see Erik's
> > email), what has so far eluded me is how you write the kernel/ramdisk to
> > flash without erasing blob - surely if your cat kernel/ramdisk > /dev/mtd
> > you'll erase blob, no?
>
> Might want to use the patitioning part of mtd and make sure the version
> of the sa1100 map has the definition of lart partitions in it

Or jsut use dd and use the seek= option to tell it where to start.

You *don't* want to use /dev/mtd anyway-  that's a control device.
mtdblock is what you're after.

kira.

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:37:52 +1000
To: Lart Mailinglist 
From: John Windle 
Subject: Burning kernel into flash where can I find documentation on
  this? Newbie
In-Reply-To: <990634301.14414.1.camel@russ>
References: 
 
 <20010308183647.I7685@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
 <20010523121140.A29238@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
 
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Hi

can anyone give this poor newbie a pointer on where I can find a document, 
or 3, on how I burn the kernel and boot ramdisk into flash; using the jffs 
I gather.

I have no idea what a MTD is, so a pointer to that would also be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

john

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: MTD
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Hi!

What is the state of the MTD driver (with respect to LART/SA11x0
architectures)? What _is_ working and what is _not_ working.

Erik mentioned earlier that the CFI command sets for the DT28F160 flash
chips isn't written yet. Anything else that's not functional? Also, I see
there is support for Intel/Sharp Extended Commands - doesn't this cover Fast
boot block flash devices?

I've just browsed through the mtd driver source and tried compiling a kernel
with it. It fails when it tries to compile mtdlink.o (undefined reference to
`do_cfi_probe') - A quick grep through the source shows the do_cfi_probe()
function isn't even written yet, so the memory mapped stuff obviously can't
be working yet.

More info about the current state of mtd support for LART would really be
appreciated as well as some info/pointers to docs explaining the flash
architecture on LART (I just got my LART board a few days ago, so I'm still
reading up on all the chips on the board).

In particular a few dumb questions:

1. Wtf is LART endian byte? (; How does it differ from big/little/no
endianness?

2. I assume the CFI Flash geometry on LART is 32-bit buswidth / 2-chip flash
interleave. Is this correct?

3. What is JEDEC device support?

4. Flash memory mapping:

	- Phy start address: 0x00000000
	- Phy length: 0x400000
	- Bus width in octects: 4

Is this correct?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's
incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."
		-- Muad'dib, "Dune"

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 11:49:09 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: kira brown 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
Message-ID: <20010524114915.A18260@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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Hi kira!

> > Might want to use the patitioning part of mtd and make sure the version
> > of the sa1100 map has the definition of lart partitions in it
>=20
> Or jsut use dd and use the seek=3D option to tell it where to start.
>=20
> You *don't* want to use /dev/mtd anyway-  that's a control device.
> mtdblock is what you're after.

There is no mtdblock defined in devices.txt - what is the major/minor device
numbers for this device?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

GREAT MOMENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY (#17):

On November 13, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place
of residence.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 11:50:14 2001
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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:57 +0100 (BST)
From: kira brown 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Burning kernel into flash
In-Reply-To: <20010524114915.A18260@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On Thu, 24 May 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi kira!
>
> > > Might want to use the patitioning part of mtd and make sure the version
> > > of the sa1100 map has the definition of lart partitions in it
> >
> > Or jsut use dd and use the seek= option to tell it where to start.
> >
> > You *don't* want to use /dev/mtd anyway-  that's a control device.
> > mtdblock is what you're after.
>
> There is no mtdblock defined in devices.txt - what is the major/minor device
> numbers for this device?

I don't know.  Look at the MTD documentation.  I strongly advise you to
read it thoroughly as MTD is large and complex and can bite if not
carefully handled :-)

kira.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 15:51:19 2001
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X-NiNLog: [james@kyzo.com] [] [200105241348.OAA10844]
Message-ID: <3B0D111F.17FC5DDF@kyzo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:48:15 +0100
From: James Stevens 
Organization: KYZO Ltd --- http://www.kyzo.com/
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Hi,

We're interested in using the LART in wireless applications,
particularly, as a wireless base station, bridge, router etc.etc.

We also plan some work on porting our existing x86 network appliances to
LART - see our web site - www.kyzo.com.

I would be interested to know what is the state of the 2.4Ghz radio
interface, but would also be interested in a combined PCMCIA & single
ethernet board, that could be used without the KSD, for use with
existing PCMCIA radio cards like the Lucent Wavelan.



James
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 18:28:40 2001
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Subject: Re: MTD
From: Russ Dill 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <20010524114551.A17922@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On 24 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> What is the state of the MTD driver (with respect to LART/SA11x0
> architectures)? What _is_ working and what is _not_ working.

data bus mangling working
address bus mangling not working
jedec for flash not working


> Erik mentioned earlier that the CFI command sets for the DT28F160 flash
> chips isn't written yet. Anything else that's not functional? Also, I see
> there is support for Intel/Sharp Extended Commands - doesn't this cover Fast
> boot block flash devices?

not these suckers
 
> I've just browsed through the mtd driver source and tried compiling a kernel
> with it. It fails when it tries to compile mtdlink.o (undefined reference to
> `do_cfi_probe') - A quick grep through the source shows the do_cfi_probe()
> function isn't even written yet, so the memory mapped stuff obviously can't
> be working yet.

no, its just linked in another file

> More info about the current state of mtd support for LART would really be
> appreciated as well as some info/pointers to docs explaining the flash
> architecture on LART (I just got my LART board a few days ago, so I'm still
> reading up on all the chips on the board).
> 
> In particular a few dumb questions:
> 
> 1. Wtf is LART endian byte? (; How does it differ from big/little/no
> endianness?

a total mangling of the data bus

> 2. I assume the CFI Flash geometry on LART is 32-bit buswidth / 2-chip flash
> interleave. Is this correct?

yah
 
> 3. What is JEDEC device support?

various flash commands and identification

> 4. Flash memory mapping:
> 
>       - Phy start address: 0x00000000
>       - Phy length: 0x400000
>       - Bus width in octects: 4
> 
> Is this correct?

sounds about right, that sdoud be in the sa1100-mapping  driver

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 24 18:59:13 2001
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 <990721357.22938.0.camel@russ>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:49:09 +0200
To: Russ Dill 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: MTD
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At 09:22 -0700 24-05-2001, Russ Dill wrote:
>On 24 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>>  Hi!
>>
>>  What is the state of the MTD driver (with respect to LART/SA11x0
>>  architectures)? What _is_ working and what is _not_ working.
>
>data bus mangling working
>address bus mangling not working

? I was particularly careful to mangle the address lines in such a 
way as to not disturb the block layout of the Flash device. What 
exactly are you referring to?

JDB
[otherwise blissfully unaware of the workings of the MTD]
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, bakker@mmc.et.tudelft.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'
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Subject: Re: MTD
From: Russ Dill 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Cc: Abraham vd Merwe 
In-Reply-To: 
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On 24 May 2001 18:49:09 +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> At 09:22 -0700 24-05-2001, Russ Dill wrote:
> >On 24 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> >>  Hi!
> >>
> >>  What is the state of the MTD driver (with respect to LART/SA11x0
> >>  architectures)? What _is_ working and what is _not_ working.
> >
> >data bus mangling working
> >address bus mangling not working
> 
> ? I was particularly careful to mangle the address lines in such a 
> way as to not disturb the block layout of the Flash device. What 
> exactly are you referring to?

JEDEC commands have to be written to specific addresses on the device.

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On Thu, 24 May 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 09:22 -0700 24-05-2001, Russ Dill wrote:
> >On 24 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> >>  Hi!
> >>
> >>  What is the state of the MTD driver (with respect to LART/SA11x0
> >>  architectures)? What _is_ working and what is _not_ working.
> >
> >data bus mangling working
> >address bus mangling not working
>
> ? I was particularly careful to mangle the address lines in such a
> way as to not disturb the block layout of the Flash device. What
> exactly are you referring to?

To be able to use the write buffer (do those parts have write buffer
capability?) and the generic probing routines, the MTD map driver must be
able to write at specific addresses at the chip level.  Therefore all
mangling has to be demangled in software for both the address and data
lines.  The address demangling could be avoided if you forget about write
buffer and use single writes (much slower) and hack up the probing code to
unconditionally assume the LART's flash type and geometry.

This routing swizzling might have been a good idea from an hardware point of
view, but the software side really becomes a bitch.


Nicolas

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:54:43 +0200
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[Re-read the Flash datasheets]
>On Thu, 24 May 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  > ? I was particularly careful to mangle the address lines in such a
>>  way as to not disturb the block layout of the Flash device. What
>>  exactly are you referring to?
>
>To be able to use the write buffer (do those parts have write buffer
>capability?)

They don't.

>  and the generic probing routines,

Only depends on bit 0, which I did wire up straight through. All 
other lines are zero, and mangling doesn't change that.

>  the MTD map driver must be
>able to write at specific addresses at the chip level.  Therefore all
>mangling has to be demangled in software for both the address and data
>lines.  The address demangling could be avoided if you forget about write
>buffer and use single writes (much slower) and hack up the probing code to
>unconditionally assume the LART's flash type and geometry.

What is the probing code trying to do ? All the chip provides is an 
(opaque) manufacturer code and an (equally opaque) device ID.

>This routing swizzling might have been a good idea from an hardware point of
>view, but the software side really becomes a bitch.

With Flash this stupid (and apparently non-JEDEC compliant) you don't 
lose too much, (except some confused software guys ;-) right ? Or am 
I still missing anything ?

JDB.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                      -- Arthur Kasspe
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: MTD
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Hi Russ!

> > Erik mentioned earlier that the CFI command sets for the DT28F160 flash
> > chips isn't written yet. Anything else that's not functional? Also, I s=
ee
> > there is support for Intel/Sharp Extended Commands - doesn't this cover=
 Fast
> > boot block flash devices?
>=20
> not these suckers

What vendor command set does these chips have then? Is it different, i.e.
not ID 0x0001 (Intel Extended Vendor Command Set) or is the current driver
just not complete?

Could somebody just point me to the documentation for the vendor command set
for these chips please.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Nothing endures but change.
		-- Heraclitus

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: MTD
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Hi Russ!

> > I've just browsed through the mtd driver source and tried compiling a k=
ernel
> > with it. It fails when it tries to compile mtdlink.o (undefined referen=
ce to
> > `do_cfi_probe') - A quick grep through the source shows the do_cfi_prob=
e()
> > function isn't even written yet, so the memory mapped stuff obviously c=
an't
> > be working yet.
>=20
> no, its just linked in another file

No, there is a cfi_probe() function for each driver (which is prob what
do_cfi_probe should be as well), but not a do_cfi_probe. grep -r
do_cfi_probe /usr/src/linux should prove me correct (;

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

You plan things that you do not even attempt because of your extreme cautio=
n.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 25 21:28:01 2001
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Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:17:26 +0200 (MEST)
From: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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Subject: Jflash update
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Hi

An updated version of the Jflash (for Linux) are now available for
download at http://www.control.auc.dk/~martin

Changes:
      Support for burning kernels and ramdisks into flash
      Verify is optional


The file may disapear later this summer why someone else (e.g. the LART
homepage) must host the file if they find that it is of general interest.

Best regards
Martin

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri May 25 22:25:25 2001
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Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:19:05 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Martin Jansen Schmidt 
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Subject: Re: Jflash update
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On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:17:26PM +0200, Martin Jansen Schmidt wrote:
> An updated version of the Jflash (for Linux) are now available for
> download at http://www.control.auc.dk/~martin
> 
> Changes:
>       Support for burning kernels and ramdisks into flash
>       Verify is optional

Cool.

> The file may disapear later this summer why someone else (e.g. the LART
> homepage) must host the file if they find that it is of general interest.

Will do soon, and I'll also add the new JTAG dongle.


Thanks,
Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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If anyone is working on tftp download for blob using the CS8900,
please let me know.

If I don't hear from anyone I plan to do it shortly.

I have a custom SA-1110/SA-1111 board with a CS8900 which is somewhere
between an Assabet and a LART.  Anything I do should work on the LART
also (a lart with a cs8900 ethernet chip, that it).

-brad
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun May 27 14:30:31 2001
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Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:28:59 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Brad Parker 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: blob tftp download?
Message-ID: <20010527142859.H22468@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 07:25:32AM -0400, Brad Parker wrote:
> If anyone is working on tftp download for blob using the CS8900,
> please let me know.

Somewhere I do have a start for that, I'll dig a bit and hope I can
find it. Nowhere near a real implementation though, but it had some
data structures for bootp/tftp.

> If I don't hear from anyone I plan to do it shortly.
> 
> I have a custom SA-1110/SA-1111 board with a CS8900 which is somewhere
> between an Assabet and a LART.  Anything I do should work on the LART
> also (a lart with a cs8900 ethernet chip, that it).

Go ahead. For a new design I'll have to hack on blob anyway; I'll leave
some room for bootp/tftp as well so I can drop in your stuff as well.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun May 27 16:56:53 2001
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On Sun, 27 May 2001, Brad Parker wrote:

>
> If anyone is working on tftp download for blob using the CS8900,
> please let me know.
>
> If I don't hear from anyone I plan to do it shortly.

Let me suggest to have a look at Redboot as well.  It already has support
for the SA11x0, networking and probably the CS8900 as well.  Redboot is
already fully suporting Assabet and the iPAQ with both ethernet and
networking over USB.  It is open source and actively maintained by Red Hat.
Support of JFFS2 is apparently in the way.  And of course everything is
modular so you compile in only what you need.

Just to say that it might be a good idea if we put all our efforts behind
the same bootloader at some point.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 28 13:43:32 2001
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Subject: Blob question
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Hi,
     I was going thr the source code of Blob and i get the idea it was
written for SA1100.
Can anyone tell me if Blob is available for SA1110 (Intel Assabet board)?
If so where can I get it?

Thanks,
vatsa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 28 14:52:32 2001
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Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:47:54 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: r1srivat@in.ibm.com
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Blob question
Message-ID: <20010528144754.E630@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:01:13PM +0530, r1srivat@in.ibm.com wrote:
>      I was going thr the source code of Blob and i get the idea it was
> written for SA1100.
> Can anyone tell me if Blob is available for SA1110 (Intel Assabet board)?

Yes, blob-1.0.8-pre2 has support for the Assabet.

> If so where can I get it?

From the LART site.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon May 28 16:52:28 2001
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From: Hari 
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Hi ,
the blob is ported to Assabet as well. Assabet's core is SA1100 .
Download the latest version 2.02 that supports running from RAM too .
.. Just configure  with the option 
Run "./configure --with-linux-prefix=/path/to/armlinux/source \
       --with-board=assabet arm-lart-linux-gnu"
and then make will do.

Hari


On Mon, 28 May 2001, you wrote:
> Hi,
>      I was going thr the source code of Blob and i get the idea it was
> written for SA1100.
> Can anyone tell me if Blob is available for SA1110 (Intel Assabet board)?
> If so where can I get it?
> 
> Thanks,
> vatsa
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 29 11:05:42 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Data mangling
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Hi!

I just looked at the data_to_flash and data_from_flash functions in start.S
of blob and what I don't understand is why you go through all the trouble
mangling/de-mangling the data when writing/reading to from flash?

Who cares if the data is written in the wrong order, you're going to read it
in the same "wrong" order back surely?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Marriage is a ghastly public confession of a strictly private intention.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 29 11:36:48 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Data mangling
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On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 11:02:14AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I just looked at the data_to_flash and data_from_flash functions in start.S
> of blob and what I don't understand is why you go through all the trouble
> mangling/de-mangling the data when writing/reading to from flash?

Look at the LART schematics.

> Who cares if the data is written in the wrong order, you're going to read it
> in the same "wrong" order back surely?

The data is not the problem. You want the flash commands in the right
order.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 29 20:28:32 2001
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Subject: Re: MTD
From: Russ Dill 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <20010525153044.A20276@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
References: <20010524114551.A17922@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On 25 May 2001 15:30:44 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi Russ!
> 
> > > I've just browsed through the mtd driver source and tried compiling a kernel
> > > with it. It fails when it tries to compile mtdlink.o (undefined reference to
> > > `do_cfi_probe') - A quick grep through the source shows the do_cfi_probe()
> > > function isn't even written yet, so the memory mapped stuff obviously can't
> > > be working yet.
> > 
> > no, its just linked in another file
> 
> No, there is a cfi_probe() function for each driver (which is prob what
> do_cfi_probe should be as well), but not a do_cfi_probe. grep -r
> do_cfi_probe /usr/src/linux should prove me correct (;

it doesn't have to be named 'cfi_probe()', in jedec.c, its called
jedec_probe. I don't have any reference to do_cfi_probe anywhere in my
mtd cvs copy, perhaps you shauld look at the mtd cvs

static struct mtd_chip_driver jedec_chipdrv = {
        probe: jedec_probe,
        name: "jedec",
        module: THIS_MODULE
};


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue May 29 20:28:32 2001
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Subject: Re: MTD
From: Russ Dill 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
In-Reply-To: <20010525150200.A19924@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
References: <20010524114551.A17922@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On 25 May 2001 15:02:00 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi Russ!
> 
> > > Erik mentioned earlier that the CFI command sets for the DT28F160 flash
> > > chips isn't written yet. Anything else that's not functional? Also, I see
> > > there is support for Intel/Sharp Extended Commands - doesn't this cover Fast
> > > boot block flash devices?
> > 
> > not these suckers
> 
> What vendor command set does these chips have then? Is it different, i.e.
> not ID 0x0001 (Intel Extended Vendor Command Set) or is the current driver
> just not complete?
> 
> Could somebody just point me to the documentation for the vendor command set
> for these chips please.

developer.intel.com

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 10:11:53 2001
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Hi!

This is actually a question for Erik I guess:

Why is MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE in flash.h of blob (version 1.0.8pre2) set to 32768*=
4?
Section 2.3.2 of the Intel datasheet for 28F160F3 states the block size is
32768.

Does this have anything to do with the address mangling or is it safe to use
32768 for the block size? IIRC J.D. Bakker said he was careful not to mangle
the addresses so much as to influence across the block boundaries so I see
no reason to use 4 times the block size for erases.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

"The Right Honorable Gentleman is indebted to his memory for his jests
and to his imagination for his facts."
		-- Sheridan

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: another flash question
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Hi!

If you interleave the flash chips (as in LART's case) does the block size
stay the same and the number of blocks double or does the block size double
and the number of blocks stay the same?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

If God is dead, who will save the Queen?

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 17:17:48 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: some more flash questions
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Hi!

There's something I don't understand. In flash.h of blob:

#define MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE (32768 * 4)
#define INT_FLASH_BASE (RunningFromInternal() ? CS0_BASE : CS1_BASE)

#define KERNEL_START        (INT_FLASH_BASE + MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)
#define NUM_KERNEL_BLOCKS   (7)
#define KERNEL_LEN      (NUM_KERNEL_BLOCKS * MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)
#define INITRD_START        (KERNEL_START + KERNEL_LEN)
#define NUM_INITRD_BLOCKS   (24)
#define INITRD_LEN      (NUM_INITRD_BLOCKS * MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)

Why do you use different offsets when executing from flash and when
executing from ram?

Also, #define CS1_BASE    (0x08000000) doesn't make any sense since it's
well beyond the address space. Does this have something to do with mangled
addresses?

How bad is the address space mangled?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Laugh, and the world ignores you.  Crying doesn't help either.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 17:20:17 2001
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On Wed, 30 May 2001, Doron Sandroy wrote:

>
> I'm adding the same question as steve, cause I encounter it as well but
> nobody answered it yet:
>
> I downloaded and used blob-kit-assabet-1.3.tar.gz that uses
> 2.4.0-test5-rmk1-np1 and telnet works great but only the first time.

That kernel version is way old now and known buggy regarding 16-bit I/O
(used by PCMCIA devices).

> Subsequent sessions hang at "connected", to local or remote clients. I've
> had this problem on earlier versions of kernel/ramdisk combinations as well.

Which one?



Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 17:30:23 2001
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:28:37 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: another flash question
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On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 10:37:41AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> If you interleave the flash chips (as in LART's case) does the block size
> stay the same and the number of blocks double or does the block size double
> and the number of blocks stay the same?

*blink*... -EPARSE... rereads.... ah :) The number of blocks stays the
same, and the block size doubles.


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 17:30:23 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Flash question
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On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 10:10:08AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> This is actually a question for Erik I guess:
> 
> Why is MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE in flash.h of blob (version 1.0.8pre2) set to 32768*4?
> Section 2.3.2 of the Intel datasheet for 28F160F3 states the block size is
> 32768.

Block size is 32768 bytes, and we have a 4 byte wide bus, so that will
get you a block size of 32768*4 bytes.

> Does this have anything to do with the address mangling or is it safe to use
> 32768 for the block size? IIRC J.D. Bakker said he was careful not to mangle
> the addresses so much as to influence across the block boundaries so I see
> no reason to use 4 times the block size for erases.

32768 bytes is too smal.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:31:26 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: some more flash questions
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On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:14:50PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> There's something I don't understand. In flash.h of blob:
> 
> #define MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE (32768 * 4)
> #define INT_FLASH_BASE (RunningFromInternal() ? CS0_BASE : CS1_BASE)
> 
> #define KERNEL_START        (INT_FLASH_BASE + MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)
> #define NUM_KERNEL_BLOCKS   (7)
> #define KERNEL_LEN      (NUM_KERNEL_BLOCKS * MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)
> #define INITRD_START        (KERNEL_START + KERNEL_LEN)
> #define NUM_INITRD_BLOCKS   (24)
> #define INITRD_LEN      (NUM_INITRD_BLOCKS * MAIN_BLOCK_SIZE)
> 
> Why do you use different offsets when executing from flash and when
> executing from ram?
> 
> Also, #define CS1_BASE    (0x08000000) doesn't make any sense since it's
> well beyond the address space. Does this have something to do with mangled
> addresses?

When you connect the correct line on the low speed connector to ground
(see the LART schematics), the main flash will move to 0x08000000, and
you can map an external flash memory at address 0x00000000. That's the
internal/external flash mentioned in the code.

> How bad is the address space mangled?

Not that bad, only the flash memory is slightly mangled.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 18:58:12 2001
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References: <20010530171450.A28558@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <20010530173126.O3316@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
Subject: 100Mbs embedded ethernet?
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:54:39 -0400
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Is there such thing as the 100mbs embedded ethernet? The one on the ethernet
board is 10mbs.


thanks
Andrew


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed May 30 19:08:05 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Andrew Xiang 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: 100Mbs embedded ethernet?
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On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:54:39PM -0400, Andrew Xiang wrote:
> Is there such thing as the 100mbs embedded ethernet? The one on the ethernet
> board is 10mbs.

See the 10 vs. 100 mbs ethernet thread earlier this month on this list.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 00:58:21 2001
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References: <20010530103741.A23055@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <20010530172837.N3316@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
Subject: ethernet dma?
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:50:12 -0400
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Is the LART ethernet cs8900a using DMA to transfer data or is it doing
polling?
If it is using DMA, how is the hardware hooked up? Does sa1110 allow dma
from any address?
Or do I need some logic in the middle to control the dma?

thanks
Andrew


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 01:15:12 2001
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At 18:50 -0400 30-05-2001, Andrew Xiang wrote:
>  Does sa1110 allow dma
>from any address?

Not generic PCMCIA-to-mem DMA, no. The SA only has DMA to some of its 
on-chip peripherals.

By the way Intel has a manual for the SA-1110 in which this is 
answered, along with many other basic questions. See 
http://developer.intel.com/

JDB.
[who knows about Intel's pseudo-DMA by using loopback on a serial 
port, but the cache implications alone are grave enough to keep me 
from taking that seriously]
-- 
They're all fools. Don't worry. Darwin may
be slow, but he'll eventually get them.
   -- Matthew Lammers in ASR
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Subject: Re: ethernet dma?
From: Russ Dill 
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On 30 May 2001 18:50:12 -0400, Andrew Xiang wrote:
> Is the LART ethernet cs8900a using DMA to transfer data or is it doing
> polling?
> If it is using DMA, how is the hardware hooked up? Does sa1110 allow dma
> from any address?
> Or do I need some logic in the middle to control the dma?

The sa1100 doesn't have a dma capability. The best thing you could do is
make some glue logic with some sram or such. The sa1100 would read/write
pages to the sram instead of the cs8900a, your glue logic would then dma
between the sram and the cs8900a, as well as pass the information
between the various registers.

This seems like too much work to be usefull, and would increase latency.
It might be helpfull if you had a large number of ethernet chips to
service.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 13:10:36 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: writing to flash from linux
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Hi!

I've mmap'd the flash memory with read/write access in userland:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
ptr =3D mmap (0,FLASH_LENGTH,PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE,MAP_FILE |
MAP_PRIVATE,mem_fd,FLASH_OFFSET);
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

and then I read/write to that memory (ptr) in order to access flash. Reading
works fine, but when I try writing (in this particular case sending a "Block
Erase" command, mangled of course) to that same memory I get:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
=2E.root@tinystor:~# ./flash zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 v1.gz
do_wp_page: bogus page at address 40125000 (page 0x880)
VM: killing process flash
Killed
root@tinystor:~#
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Any ideas why this is happening?

Just to clear things up, mem_fd is just an open file descriptor pointing to
/dev/mem, FLASH_OFFSET is 0x00000000, FLASH_LENGTH is 0x00400000 and the
exact place I'm trying to write to is ptr+32768*4 (i.e. where the kernel
image should start).

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Knowledge is power.
		-- Francis Bacon

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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Hi!

Something that's really weird. No matter what I do (whether I set the hard
drive to master, slave, etc.), the kernel keeps detecting the hard drive as
hdb:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=3D=
xx
hda: no response (status =3D 0xa1), resetting drive
hda: no response (status =3D 0xa1)
hdb: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0x00)
hdb: ST38410A, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0xf6000000-0xf6000007,0xf6001000 on irq 1
hdb: 16841664 sectors (8623 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=3D16708/16/63
Partition check:
 hdb: hdb1 hdb2 < hdb5 > hdb3 hdb4
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Any ideas why? How can I fix it and what is the idebus=3Dxx thing?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

pension:
	A federally insured chain letter.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
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Hi Thomas!

> > Any ideas why? How can I fix it and what is the idebus=3Dxx thing?
>=20
> From .../src/linux/Documentation/ide.txt:
>=20
>  "idebus=3Dxx"  : inform IDE driver of VESA/PCI bus speed in MHz,
>                                 where "xx" is between 20 and 66 inclusive,
>                                 used when tuning chipset PIO modes.
>                                 For PCI bus, 25 is correct for a P75
> system,
>                                 30 is correct for P90,P120,P180 systems,
>                                 and 33 is used for P100,P133,P166 systems.
>                                 If in doubt, use idebus=3D33 for PCI.
>                                 As for VLB, it is safest to not specify
> it.
>                                 Bigger values are safer than smaller ones.

So now the question is what is a good value to use with LART? How do I know
what the bus speed is?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

The profession of book writing makes horse racing seem like a solid,
stable business.
		-- John Steinbeck
	[Horse racing *is* a stable business ...]

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
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Hi David!

> Have you check with another hard drive ? Maybe simply the electronic of t=
he
> drive is defect. I have two devices connected to my board and the hard dr=
ive
> is well /dev/hda

No I haven't tried another hard drive, but this one works fine on some of
the x86 boxes I have here (as /dev/hda). Also, the drive seems to be working
fine as /dev/hdb on LART, it just won't be detected as /dev/hda

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Lend money to a bad debtor and he will hate you.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:57:45 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 01:51:33PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Something that's really weird. No matter what I do (whether I set the hard
> drive to master, slave, etc.), the kernel keeps detecting the hard drive as
> hdb:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
> hda: no response (status = 0xa1), resetting drive
> hda: no response (status = 0xa1)
> hdb: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0x00)
> hdb: ST38410A, ATA DISK drive
> ide0 at 0xf6000000-0xf6000007,0xf6001000 on irq 1
> hdb: 16841664 sectors (8623 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=16708/16/63
> Partition check:
>  hdb: hdb1 hdb2 < hdb5 > hdb3 hdb4
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> 
> Any ideas why? How can I fix it and what is the idebus=xx thing?

Hmm, the disk should be detected as hda, what kind of drive is this? We
only tried Toshiba and Hitachi 2.5" drives which always got detected
as hda.

The "no response" stuff is normal behaviour, ignore it. We tried to fix
it once with newer CPLD code, but the power consumption went way up
with that.

Oh, and you really want to have idebus=33 on your default command line,
or you'll get massive disk corruption (been there, done that).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:59:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Thomas S. Iversen" 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
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> Any ideas why? How can I fix it and what is the idebus=xx thing?

/usr/src/linux/Documentation/ide.txt will givet you answers to the
idebus=xx thing.

Yours Thomas
--
Thomas S. Iversen                            | email: zensonic@diku.dk
Student at Department of Computer Science.   | phone: +45 35282360
University of Copenhagen, DIKU.              | shoesize: 45


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Subject: Re: hdd detection
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Hi Erik!

> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> > ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebu=
s=3Dxx
> > hda: no response (status =3D 0xa1), resetting drive
> > hda: no response (status =3D 0xa1)
> > hdb: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0x00)
> > hdb: ST38410A, ATA DISK drive
> > ide0 at 0xf6000000-0xf6000007,0xf6001000 on irq 1
> > hdb: 16841664 sectors (8623 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=3D16708/16/63
> > Partition check:
> >  hdb: hdb1 hdb2 < hdb5 > hdb3 hdb4
> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> >=20
> > Any ideas why? How can I fix it and what is the idebus=3Dxx thing?
>=20
> Hmm, the disk should be detected as hda, what kind of drive is this? We
> only tried Toshiba and Hitachi 2.5" drives which always got detected
> as hda.

It's a Seagate 3.5" (ST38410A).

> The "no response" stuff is normal behaviour, ignore it. We tried to fix
> it once with newer CPLD code, but the power consumption went way up
> with that.

Why does the "no response" stuff occur?

> Oh, and you really want to have idebus=3D33 on your default command line,
> or you'll get massive disk corruption (been there, done that).

Why is 33Mhz essential? Surely if you access the drive directly it doesn't
matter how fast you access it or am I talking b/s here?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

You will engage in a profitable business activity.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 01:09:02PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I've mmap'd the flash memory with read/write access in userland:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> ptr = mmap (0,FLASH_LENGTH,PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE,MAP_FILE |
> MAP_PRIVATE,mem_fd,FLASH_OFFSET);
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> 
> and then I read/write to that memory (ptr) in order to access flash. Reading
> works fine, but when I try writing (in this particular case sending a "Block
> Erase" command, mangled of course) to that same memory I get:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> ..root@tinystor:~# ./flash zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 v1.gz
> do_wp_page: bogus page at address 40125000 (page 0x880)
> VM: killing process flash
> Killed
> root@tinystor:~#
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> 
> Any ideas why this is happening?
> 
> Just to clear things up, mem_fd is just an open file descriptor pointing to
> /dev/mem, FLASH_OFFSET is 0x00000000, FLASH_LENGTH is 0x00400000 and the
> exact place I'm trying to write to is ptr+32768*4 (i.e. where the kernel
> image should start).

Instead of trying to write your own flash driver, it might be a better
idea to team up with the MTD people.

We had an armflash driver for SA11x0 Linux a couple of months ago, but
it was dropped in favour of MTD because MTD was obviously the right way
to do it (it's a general driver for all kinds of memory devices). See
http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/ .


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Hi Erik!

> > I've mmap'd the flash memory with read/write access in userland:
> >=20
> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> > ptr =3D mmap (0,FLASH_LENGTH,PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE,MAP_FILE |
> > MAP_PRIVATE,mem_fd,FLASH_OFFSET);
> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> >=20
> > and then I read/write to that memory (ptr) in order to access flash. Re=
ading
> > works fine, but when I try writing (in this particular case sending a "=
Block
> > Erase" command, mangled of course) to that same memory I get:
> >=20
> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> > ..root@tinystor:~# ./flash zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 v1.gz
> > do_wp_page: bogus page at address 40125000 (page 0x880)
> > VM: killing process flash
> > Killed
> > root@tinystor:~#
> > ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> >=20
> > Any ideas why this is happening?
> >=20
> > Just to clear things up, mem_fd is just an open file descriptor pointin=
g to
> > /dev/mem, FLASH_OFFSET is 0x00000000, FLASH_LENGTH is 0x00400000 and the
> > exact place I'm trying to write to is ptr+32768*4 (i.e. where the kernel
> > image should start).
>=20
> Instead of trying to write your own flash driver, it might be a better
> idea to team up with the MTD people.

Yes, of course. However, I'm first playing with it myself to get up to speed
with the actual hardware without running into MTD complexities.

As soon as my code is working perfectly and I've figured out all the
LARTweirdness (; I'll merge my code with MTD.

I'd still appreciate an answer to my problem above tho.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Real Users find the one combination of bizarre input values that shuts
down the system for days.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:03:39PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > Hmm, the disk should be detected as hda, what kind of drive is this? We
> > only tried Toshiba and Hitachi 2.5" drives which always got detected
> > as hda.
> 
> It's a Seagate 3.5" (ST38410A).

Maybe your 2.5-->3.5 converter has a cable select option or so?
Otherwise I can't explain. JDB?

> > The "no response" stuff is normal behaviour, ignore it. We tried to fix
> > it once with newer CPLD code, but the power consumption went way up
> > with that.
> 
> Why does the "no response" stuff occur?

Probably timing issues. If we use the faster CPLD code the the timing
is slightly different, but at a certain point in the signal transitions
you'll get a 5V GND short which is not too good for the power
consumption (not to speak about the ICs).

> > Oh, and you really want to have idebus=33 on your default command line,
> > or you'll get massive disk corruption (been there, done that).
> 
> Why is 33Mhz essential? Surely if you access the drive directly it doesn't
> matter how fast you access it or am I talking b/s here?

Because that is the default IDE bus speed and we just have a very basic
IDE interface on the KSB.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Hi Erik!

> Oh, and you really want to have idebus=3D33 on your default command line,
> or you'll get massive disk corruption (been there, done that).

How do I specify stuff like idebuss=3D33 as a command-line option for the
kernel? There's nowhere I can do this.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Sometimes, too long is too long.
		-- Joe Crowe

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 15:28:09 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
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Subject: Re: writing to flash from linux
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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > Instead of trying to write your own flash driver, it might be a better
> > idea to team up with the MTD people.
> 
> Yes, of course. However, I'm first playing with it myself to get up to speed
> with the actual hardware without running into MTD complexities.
> 
> As soon as my code is working perfectly and I've figured out all the
> LARTweirdness (; I'll merge my code with MTD.

OK, I was already afraid that we would get yet another flash driver.

> I'd still appreciate an answer to my problem above tho.

A couple of things: 

- do you open /dev/mem with O_SYNC?
- is the offset parameter in mmap() a multiple of the page size (4k)?

We do have some example code for this on the LART site, get the devmem2
utility from http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/port/ .

If the problem still persists, I think it's a kernel bug and you should
take it to the linux-arm-kernel mailing list. See
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3#9 and
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/doc.php3 .


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Subject: Re: hdd detection
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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:21:07PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > Oh, and you really want to have idebus=33 on your default command line,
> > or you'll get massive disk corruption (been there, done that).
> 
> How do I specify stuff like idebuss=33 as a command-line option for the
> kernel? There's nowhere I can do this.

In the default command line in the kernel configuration. For example,
my .config file for a 2.4.3-rmk2-np1 kernel with hard disk contains:

CONFIG_CMDLINE="console=ttyS0,9600 idebus=33 root=/dev/hda1"


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:43:33 -0400
From: Jeff Sutherland 
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To: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: hdd detection
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Been there, done that.  The drive is still going through its
initialization phase when the IDE driver attempts to autodetect it.  I
hacked the ide driver to recognize another kernel parameter then passed
in "hda=present" on the kernel command line.  This told the driver that,
yes, there really is a drive on ide0, and it's set for master (you do
have the jumpers set correctly I hope...) and to wait for the drive to
complete its POST before continuing.  I sent a patch to the ide
maintainer but haven't checked lately to see if it's made it into the
mainstream kernel yet.
A crude hack would be to insert some delay (3 or 4 seconds maybe) in the
boot sequence before getting to the IDE driver initialization.

Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Something that's really weird. No matter what I do (whether I set the hard
> drive to master, slave, etc.), the kernel keeps detecting the hard drive as
> hdb:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
> hda: no response (status = 0xa1), resetting drive
> hda: no response (status = 0xa1)
> hdb: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0x00)
> hdb: ST38410A, ATA DISK drive
> ide0 at 0xf6000000-0xf6000007,0xf6001000 on irq 1
> hdb: 16841664 sectors (8623 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=16708/16/63
> Partition check:
>  hdb: hdb1 hdb2 < hdb5 > hdb3 hdb4
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

-- 
  Jeff Sutherland, Accelent Systems, Inc.   
  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  +  -  
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All the wide open space we have in this country,
and how bad the roads are.
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:45:56 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: "Thomas S. Iversen" 
Cc: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: hdd detection
Message-ID: <20010531154556.I13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:39:44PM +0200, Thomas S. Iversen wrote:
> > How do I specify stuff like idebuss=33 as a command-line option for the
> > kernel? There's nowhere I can do this.
> 
> Normally the bootloader is responsible for this. 

I know. It's somewhere on my to do list, but below the far more
important things.

> What bootloader do you use??

Blob, what else? We had to write our own bootloader when we started,
there was nothing else (except angelboot which was too broken to be
useful). Blob evolved from a hardware test binary to a full fledged
boot loader.


Erik

-- 
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: hdd detection
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Hi Thomas!

> > How do I specify stuff like idebuss=3D33 as a command-line option for t=
he
> > kernel? There's nowhere I can do this.
>=20
> Normally the bootloader is responsible for this. What bootloader do you
> use??

blob of course (:

Anyway, I sorted that out thanks - CONFIG_CMDLINE (:

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

This is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.  And now you know why.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 16:13:51 2001
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Hi Andrew!

> Where do you connect the hd to?
> is there a IDE connector on LART?

There is one on the KSB

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

No discipline is ever requisite to force attendance upon lectures which are
really worth the attending.
		-- Adam Smith, "The Wealth of Nations"

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 17:15:32 2001
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Subject: BOM/docs for kitech sink board and ethernet  board?
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:11:39 -0400
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Where is the BOM and the doc for the kitchen sink board and ethernet board.
I only saw the pdf file that has the schematics.


thanks
Andrew


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu May 31 18:24:57 2001
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>Where is the BOM

No time to package it yet

>  and the doc

What doc ?

>  for the kitchen sink board and ethernet board.
>I only saw the pdf file that has the schematics.

HTH,

JDB.
-- 
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From: "Raphael D. Pereira" 
To: LART Mailing list 
Subject: Ploblems Finding SA-1100
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:54:42 -0300
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Hello,

I'm having problems to find the SA-1100 processor. I've searched on all the 
vendors mentioned in the bom.txt file plus the ones mentioned at the Intel 
site.
Can someone tell me a place where I can find that processor?

Thanks,

-- 
Raphael Derosso Pereira
Sinaf Sinalização de Ferrovias Ltda.
Curitiba - PR - Brasil
+55-41-3297322
        -=-*-=-*-=-
raphaelpereira@softhome.net
        -=-*-=-*-=-

Debian GNU/Linux Addicted User
    Use it, Abuse it. It's Free!!!
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Raphael D. Pereira wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm having problems to find the SA-1100 processor. I've searched on all the 
> vendors mentioned in the bom.txt file plus the ones mentioned at the Intel 
> site.
> Can someone tell me a place where I can find that processor?
> 
> Thanks,

The distributor in Brazil for Intel is

SND Electronica Ltda
Rua Washington Luiz, 233
01033-010
Sao Paulo, SP
Brazil
Tel: (011) 230-8333
Fax: (011) 230-7199

http://developer.intel.com/design/disti/



Bari


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 11:04:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:55:08 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: bug?
Message-ID: <20010601105508.B26862@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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Hi!

It seems cfi32_to_cpu() and cpu_to_cfi32() in cfi_endian.h is the wrong way
around (unless my idea of cpu and yours differ considerably (: ).

I've included example source code showing this (it assumes you have your arm
kernel in /usr/arm-linux/linux).

PS:

If somebody could tell me who the genius is that wrote the conversion
routines in cfi_endian.h and what the logic behind it is, I'd appreciate it
- I can't figure out why that works)

PPS:

I've verified by hand that 0x00d00d0 becomes 0xa10000a1 after it's mangled,
so the result is correct.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

pediddel:
	A car with only one working headlight.
		-- "Sniglets", Rich Hall & Friends

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


--5G06lTa6Jq83wMTw
Content-Type: text/x-csrc; charset=us-ascii
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//#define MY_WAY

#include 

#define CONFIG_MTD_CFI_ADV_OPTIONS
#define CFI_LART_ENDIAN
#include "/usr/arm-linux/linux/include/linux/mtd/cfi_endian.h"

#ifndef MY_WAY

#define data_to_flash cfi32_to_cpu
#define flash_to_data cpu_to_cfi32

//#define data_to_flash cpu_to_cfi32
//#define flash_to_data cfi32_to_cpu

#else	/* MY_WAY */

#define BIT(n) (1 << (n))

static __u32 data_to_flash (__u32 x)
{
   __u32 result = 0;
   register int i;
   int bits[] = { 12, 14, 11, 9, 0, 2, 7, 5, 13, 15, 10, 8, 1, 3, 6, 4 };
   for (i = 0; i < 16; i++)
	 {
		if (x & BIT (i)) result |= BIT (bits[i]);
		if (x & BIT (16 + i)) result |= BIT (bits[15 - i]) << 16;
	 }
   return (result);
}

static __u32 flash_to_data (__u32 x)
{
   __u32 result = 0;
   register int i;
   int bits[] = { 4, 12, 5, 13, 15, 7, 14, 6, 11, 3, 10, 2, 0, 8, 1, 9 };
   for (i = 0; i < 16; i++)
	 {
		if (x & BIT (i)) result |= BIT (bits[i]);
		if (x & BIT (16 + i)) result |= BIT (15 - bits[i]) << 16;
	 }
   return (result);
}

#endif	/* MY_WAY */

#define ERASE_CONFIRM 0x00d000d0

int main ()
{
   printf ("0x%.8x -> 0x%.8x\n"
		   "0x%.8x -> 0x%.8x\n",
		   ERASE_CONFIRM,data_to_flash (ERASE_CONFIRM),
		   data_to_flash (ERASE_CONFIRM),flash_to_data (data_to_flash (ERASE_CONFIRM)));
   exit (0);
}


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 12:20:02 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:16:39 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: flash
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Hi!

I've written a small utility which might help some of you. It can write a
kernel and ramdisk to flash from linux.

Once the MTD drivers is working correctly you prob shouldn't touch this, but
I thought while it's broken I might as well release this.

The usual disclaimer goes of course: If it kills your dog or do anything
nasty neither me or the company I work for is responsible.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish.  Don't overdo it.
		-- Lao Tsu

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 13:50:04 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:41:51 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: bug?
Message-ID: <20010601134151.Q13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 10:55:08AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> It seems cfi32_to_cpu() and cpu_to_cfi32() in cfi_endian.h is the wrong way
> around (unless my idea of cpu and yours differ considerably (: ).
> 
> I've included example source code showing this (it assumes you have your arm
> kernel in /usr/arm-linux/linux).

I think it is correct, but sure,I can be proven wrong. I checked by
putting printk()s in the conversion functions and writing some known
patterns to it.

> If somebody could tell me who the genius is that wrote the conversion
> routines in cfi_endian.h and what the logic behind it is, I'd appreciate it
> - I can't figure out why that works)

That's Dave Woodhouse. I checked them and I think they are correct.
Here are my notes, it might make things more clear:


Mapping from flash to CPU:

Address line
Flash   CPU     mask            shift   amount
0       12      0x00000001      <<      12
1       14      0x00000002      <<      13
2       11      0x00000004      <<      9
3       9       0x00000008      <<      6
4       0       0x00000010      >>      4
5       2       0x00000020      >>      3
6       7       0x00000040      <<      1
7       5       0x00000080      >>      2
8       13      0x00000100      <<      5
9       15      0x00000200      <<      6
10      10      0x00000400      no      0
11      8       0x00000800      >>      3
12      1       0x00001000      >>      11
13      3       0x00002000      >>      10
14      6       0x00004000      >>      8
15      4       0x00008000      >>      11

16      20      0x00010000      <<      4
17      22      0x00020000      <<      5
18      19      0x00040000      <<      1
19      17      0x00080000      >>      2
20      24      0x00100000      <<      4
21      26      0x00200000      <<      5
22      31      0x00400000      <<      9
23      29      0x00800000      <<      6
24      21      0x01000000      >>      3
25      23      0x02000000      >>      2
26      18      0x04000000      >>      8
27      16      0x08000000      >>      11
28      25      0x10000000      >>      3
29      27      0x20000000      >>      2
30      30      0x40000000      no      0
31      28      0x80000000      >>      3


From CPU to flash:

Address line
CPU     Flash   mask            shift   amount
0       4       0x00000001      <<      4
1       12      0x00000002      <<      11
2       5       0x00000004      <<      3
3       13      0x00000008      <<      10
4       15      0x00000010      <<      11
5       7       0x00000020      <<      2
6       14      0x00000040      <<      8
7       6       0x00000080      >>      1
8       11      0x00000100      <<      3
9       3       0x00000200      >>      6
10      10      0x00000400      no      0
11      2       0x00000800      >>      9
12      0       0x00001000      >>      12
13      8       0x00002000      >>      5
14      1       0x00004000      >>      13
15      9       0x00008000      >>      6

16      27      0x00010000      <<      11
17      19      0x00020000      <<      2
18      26      0x00040000      <<      8
19      18      0x00080000      >>      1
20      16      0x00100000      >>      4
21      24      0x00200000      <<      3
22      17      0x00400000      >>      5
23      25      0x00800000      <<      2
24      20      0x01000000      >>      4
25      28      0x02000000      <<      3
26      21      0x04000000      >>      5
27      29      0x08000000      <<      2
28      31      0x10000000      <<      3
29      23      0x20000000      >>      6
30      30      0x40000000      no      0
31      22      0x80000000      >>      9


Now take together all lines which have the same shift (for example the
first line in cfi32_to_cpu()):

12      1       0x00001000      >>      11
15      4       0x00008000      >>      11
27      16      0x08000000      >>      11

If you combine those three lines, it means that you have to take the
incoming value (x), and it with the combined mask (0x08009000) and
shift them 11 positions to the right. IOW:

  ret = (x & 0x08009000) >> 11;

> PPS:
> 
> I've verified by hand that 0x00d00d0 becomes 0xa10000a1 after it's mangled,
> so the result is correct.

So did I :) I think you should take this to the linux-mtd mailing list,
Dave Woodhouse wrote the mangling code so he should be able to explain
what the functions should do (info about the list is on the linux-mtd
homepage).


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 14:09:25 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:00:55 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
Message-ID: <20010601140055.R13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 12:16:39PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I've written a small utility which might help some of you. It can write a
> kernel and ramdisk to flash from linux.
> 
> Once the MTD drivers is working correctly you prob shouldn't touch this, but
> I thought while it's broken I might as well release this.

Cool, as a temporary solution it's quite nice (haven't tested it yet).

Minor nit: don't use register variables. The optimiser in modern
compilers is smart enough to see that the variable should be put in a
register.

> The usual disclaimer goes of course: If it kills your dog or do anything
> nasty neither me or the company I work for is responsible.

If you can license the stuff with a license that more or less says this
(GPL, BSD, X11 license), I'll put it on the LART site.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
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Hi Erik!

> > The usual disclaimer goes of course: If it kills your dog or do anything
> > nasty neither me or the company I work for is responsible.
>=20
> If you can license the stuff with a license that more or less says this
> (GPL, BSD, X11 license), I'll put it on the LART site.

Ok, I've made it a bit more license friendly (: I've attached the revised
version.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Chinese saying: "He who speak with forked tongue, not need chopsticks."

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 14:39:03 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: address line mangling
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Hi!

I just realised how screwed up the address mangling really is. The address
lines for the 2 flash chips (U2, U3) differ completely:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
U3  CPU | U2    CPU
-------------------
0   -   |  0    -
1   -   |  1    -
2   9   |  2    9
3   13  |  3    8
4   8   |  4    7
5   12  |  5    6
6   11  |  6    5
7   10  |  7    4
8   4   |  8    10
9   5   |  9    11
10  6   | 10    12
11  7   | 11    13
12  15  | 12    15
13  14  | 13    14
14  16  | 14    16
15  17  | 15    18
16  18  | 16    17
17  20  | 17    20
18  19  | 18    19
19  21  | 19    21
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Apart from making life hell to implement CFI probing, are you sure the
addresses isn't screwed across block boundaries? For U2 this is obvious, but
I'm not so sure about U3.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

It is the business of the future to be dangerous.
		-- Hawkwind

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 15:28:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:49:27 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: BOM/docs for kitech sink board and ethernet  board?
To: LART list 
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On Thu 31 May, Andrew Xiang wrote:
> Where is the BOM and the doc for the kitchen sink board and ethernet board.
> I only saw the pdf file that has the schematics.

I've tried to collect the files we used for the LART, KSB and ethernet builds
and put them on our CDs. This is still ongoing (I've just spent half an hour
trying to make sure everything is the right version), and I need to get a few
things confirmed by email. There are a few lttle text files to explain what
is what. Once this is done I can send JDB a zip to stick up online (will that
help JDB?).


Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:32:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: bug?
To: Erik Mouw 
cc: Abraham vd Merwe ,
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On Fri 01 Jun, Erik Mouw wrote:
> Here are my notes, it might make things more clear:



Can someone (that probably means JDB or Erik :-) explain why things are wired
up this way? Given a little explanation of this I can include it and the
mappings in our LART docs so future readers have a handy explanation of wft
is going on.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Daniele Nicolodi 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
Message-ID: <20010601152902.A30344@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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Hi Daniele!

> > > > The usual disclaimer goes of course: If it kills your dog or do any=
thing
> > > > nasty neither me or the company I work for is responsible.
> > >=20
> > > If you can license the stuff with a license that more or less says th=
is
> > > (GPL, BSD, X11 license), I'll put it on the LART site.
> >=20
> > Ok, I've made it a bit more license friendly (: I've attached the revis=
ed
> > version.
>=20
> Why not GPL ??

I don't like GPL. I write code because I like writing it, not because I
believe it should stay free.

Anyhow, enforcing freedom contradicts the concept itself. If something is
free, nobody can prevent you from doing whatever you want with it. If you're
not allowed to do anything with it it's not free which basically implies GPL
code is not free - I like writing free code (:

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Alone, adj.:
	In bad company.
		-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: bug?
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Hi Wookey!

> > Here are my notes, it might make things more clear:
>=20
> 
>=20
> Can someone (that probably means JDB or Erik :-) explain why things are w=
ired
> up this way? Given a little explanation of this I can include it and the
> mappings in our LART docs so future readers have a handy explanation of w=
ft
> is going on.

=46rom cfi_endian.h

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
   For historical reference: the reason why the LART has this strange
   mapping is that the designer of the board wanted address lines to
   be as short as possible. Why? Because in that way you don't need
   drivers in the address lines so the memory access time can be held
   short. -- Erik Mouw 
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

I still agree with whoever wrote the comments there tho (; These guys were
on crack when they did this (no offence *g*)

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
		-- Shakespeare

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 15:54:32 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Gad Hayisraeli 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
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Hi Gad!

> > I've written a small utility which might help some of you. It can write=
 a
> > kernel and ramdisk to flash from linux.
>=20
> from what linux ? the host ? the target ? thru blob ? please explain exac=
tly

The target, i.e. your LART machine. Just upload a ramdisk and kernel, and
then from Linux (on the LART box), run that flash utility.

What I do is I have a ramdisk with lrsz utilities on it so I can
upload/download using zmodem. So the first time I upload a ramdisk/kernel
the conventional way, boot up, upload flash, a kernel and a ramdisk onto the
LART box and burn then using that flash utility.

I've got a ramdisk with all these utilities on it if you like. I just
haven't released it yet since getpass() in the C library seems to be broken
so you can't have passwords :P Apart from that it's a really cool, small
ramdisk.


--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Goodbye, cool world.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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Hi Wookey!

> > > Can someone explain why things are wired
> > > up this way?
> >    For historical reference: the reason why the LART has this strange
> >    mapping is that the designer of the board wanted address lines to
> >    be as short as possible.
>=20
> ah. thanx Abraham. BTW I've put your flash utility on our CDs too as a us=
eful
> interim measure (although the MTD stuff may well be sorted by the next ti=
me
> I get round to generating some new CDs :-). I assume that's OK with you?

Yes sure. I should have a working MTD flash driver before the end of next
week anyhow.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Disease can be cured; fate is incurable.
		-- Chinese proverb

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 17:10:06 2001
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Hi!

Has anybody had any luck doing CFI queries on the flash chips on LART?

I've tried everything the right way, no luck.

Below is the relevant code. Excuse the address line mapping code. They're
written for clarity, not performance or anything.

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
typedef enum { U2 =3D 0, U3 =3D 1 } chip_t;

static u32 addr_to_flash (u32 x,chip_t chip)
{
   u32 result =3D 0;
   static int bits[2][20] =3D
     {
        {  2,  3,  9, 13,  8, 12, 11, 10,  4,  5,  6,  7, 15, 14, 16, 17,
18, 20, 19, 21 },
        {  2,  3,  9,  8,  7,  6,  5,  4, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 14, 16, 18,
17, 20, 19, 21 }
     };
   int i;
   for (i =3D 0; i < 20; i++) if (x & BIT (i)) result |=3D BIT (bits[chip][=
i]);
   return (result);
}

static u32 flash_to_addr (u32 x,chip_t chip)
{
   u32 result =3D 0;
   static int bits[2][20] =3D
     {
        {  2,  3,  9, 13,  8, 12, 11, 10,  4,  5,  6,  7, 15, 14, 16, 17,
18, 20, 19, 21 },
        {  2,  3,  9,  8,  7,  6,  5,  4, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 14, 16, 18,
17, 20, 19, 21 }
     };
   int i;
   for (i =3D 0; i < 20; i++) if (x & BIT (bits[chip][i])) result |=3D BIT =
(i);
   return (result);
}

/* now, the important stuff: */

void cfi_probe (void *ptr)
{
   volatile u32 *tmp;

   log_printf (LOG_DEBUG,"U2:\n");
   tmp =3D (u32 *) ((u8 *) ptr + addr_to_flash (FLASH_OFFSET + 0x55,U2));
   *tmp =3D data_to_flash (0x98);
        usleep (100000);    /* just to be safe */
        tmp =3D (u32 *) ((u8 *) ptr + FLASH_OFFSET + addr_to_flash
(FLASH_OFFSET + 0x10,U2));
        log_printf (LOG_DEBUG,"0x%.8x    0x%.8x\n",flash_to_addr ((u32) tmp
- (u32) ptr,U2),flash_to_data (*tmp));

   log_printf (LOG_DEBUG,"U3:\n");
   tmp =3D (u32 *) ((u8 *) ptr + addr_to_flash (FLASH_OFFSET + 0x55,U3));
   *tmp =3D data_to_flash (0x98);
        usleep (100000);    /* just to be safe */
        tmp =3D (u32 *) ((u8 *) ptr + FLASH_OFFSET + addr_to_flash
(FLASH_OFFSET + 0x10,U3));
        log_printf (LOG_DEBUG,"0x%.8x    0x%.8x\n",flash_to_addr ((u32) tmp
- (u32) ptr,U3),flash_to_data (*tmp));
}

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

The data_to_flash() function just mangles the data lines (It's working since
the same function is used by my flash utility).

I've also tried writing a dword to 0x10 (i.e. 0x00980098) but then I just
get junk as well. Here is the results for above try:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
LOG_DEBUG: flash.c: cfi_probe: U2:
LOG_DEBUG: flash.c: cfi_probe: 0x00000010    0x53d025f0
LOG_DEBUG: flash.c: cfi_probe: U3:
LOG_DEBUG: flash.c: cfi_probe: 0x00000010    0x4af00100
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Of course, I'm expecting something in the line of 0x51525900 or some
variation thereof.

I'm pretty sure the address line mapping stuff is correct (I verified the
mappings by hand). The delays is just to be safe.

PS:

The 28F160's do support CFI right? *g*

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Mother is the invention of necessity.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 17:23:50 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Gad Hayisraeli 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
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Hi Gad!

> > The target, i.e. your LART machine. Just upload a ramdisk and kernel, a=
nd
> > then from Linux (on the LART box), run that flash utility.
>=20
> you mean to upload by blob and burn after i login ?

yes

> i dont understand how you can upload ramdisk while you're in the linux sh=
ell
> on the machine. where do you put these 3 megs ?

In ram (: Just make your ramdisk large enough to hold an extra ramdisk and
kernel. It's not that big:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
root@tinystor:~# df
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/ram0                 3.9M      3.2M    690.0k  83% /
root@tinystor:~# ls
flash*      kernel.img  v1.gz
root@tinystor:~# ls -l kernel.img v1.gz
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root       362208 Jun  1  2001 kernel.img
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root       879761 Jun  1  2001 v1.gz
root@tinystor:~#
root@tinystor:~# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:        31264         8804        22460            0         4096
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:        31264         8804        22460
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

See, my ramdisk is 4M, and the files I want to burn is ~800k and ~300k, so
there's plenty of space. In fact there's 22M more ram to waste (:

> > I've got a ramdisk with all these utilities on it if you like. I just
> > haven't released it yet since getpass() in the C library seems to
> > be broken
> > so you can't have passwords :P Apart from that it's a really cool, small
> > ramdisk.
>=20
> yes, i'd like it. by the way, i'm using assabet (sa1110) .does it suit for
> me ?

Yes, the ramdisk isn't dependant on LART. The flash utility is however. If
you're a programmer (you are right? *g*), it should be trivial to change the
code to work for other platforms tho.

So where should I put the ramdisk? It's a bit big to mail unless nobody
minds a 1mb+ mime encoded attachment (;

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawye=
r.
		-- Robert Frost

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Message-ID: 
From: "Deprun, Jean-Francois" 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: SD Card, Memory stick and Compact Flash
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:23:59 +0200 
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Hi,

I look for specifications of SD Card, Memory stick and Compact Flash.

Do you know where I can found them?

Regards.

JF Deprun
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 17:32:52 2001
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Cc: abraham@2d3d.co.za
Subject: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
In-Reply-To: <20010601155434.A30739@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
References: <20010601121639.A28098@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
	
	<20010601155434.A30739@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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> I've got a ramdisk ... you can't have passwords ...
> Apart from that ... cool, small ...

Hi Abraham and other happy owners of working ramdisk images,

could you please publish what you have? The only working image I found
so far is mp3disk from Aleph site (I tried images from LART site and
Nico's image, getting various failures with all of them), so this is
rather scarce resource for lazy beginners without their own ramdisk
image :)


Along this line, I decided to make my LART directory public, including
all my mess contained therein:

  http://noel.feld.cvut.cz/LART/

Use at your (and your dog's :) own risk if you want.

Things of potential interest might be:

zImage-2.4.4-rmk3-np1-emfix-oldserial-ucb-y-gain0.uu
   - recent compiled uuencoded kernel with mic driver

arm
   - lots of .pdf documents (filenames augmented to make them explanatory)

kernel
   - sources, patches, configs, browsable source tree, .o modules...


Regards

Vaclav
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 17:35:32 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:34:39 +0200
To: "Deprun, Jean-Francois" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: SD Card, Memory stick and Compact Flash
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At 17:23 +0200 01-06-2001, Deprun, Jean-Francois wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I look for specifications of SD Card, Memory stick and Compact Flash.
>
>Do you know where I can found them?

Try Google. For example:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Compact+Flash+specification

HTH, HAND.

JDB.
-- 
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 18:07:39 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:04:01 +0200
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: CFI
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At 17:09 +0200 01-06-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>PS:
>
>The 28F160's do support CFI right? *g*

Probably not. See 
ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/datashts/29064405.pdf ; I 
found no occurrence of the string 'cfi' in there.

JDB
-- 
"I think the US Government has been going about this all wrong.  It's not
  the DoJ that needs to investigate Microsoft; this is a job for the DEA."
                         -- Anthony DeBoer in the Scary Devil Monastery
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 18:34:22 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:27:06 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Wookey 
Cc: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: bug?
Message-ID: <20010601182706.T13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:32:57PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> On Fri 01 Jun, Erik Mouw wrote:
> > Here are my notes, it might make things more clear:
> 
> Can someone (that probably means JDB or Erik :-) explain why things are wired
> up this way? Given a little explanation of this I can include it and the
> mappings in our LART docs so future readers have a handy explanation of wft
> is going on.

I already documented it in the kernel source. From
include/linux/mtd/cfi_endian.h:

   For historical reference: the reason why the LART has this strange
   mapping is that the designer of the board wanted address lines to
   be as short as possible. Why? Because in that way you don't need
   drivers in the address lines so the memory access time can be held
   short. -- Erik Mouw 


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 18:38:43 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe , Gad Hayisraeli ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
Message-ID: <20010601183432.V13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 05:24:05PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > i dont understand how you can upload ramdisk while you're in the linux shell
> > on the machine. where do you put these 3 megs ?
> 
> In ram (: Just make your ramdisk large enough to hold an extra ramdisk and
> kernel. It's not that big:

Much simpler solution: compile ramfs orinto your kernel (or make it a
module and insmod it), and mount it:

  mount -t ramfs none /mnt

Voila, virtual disk space that lives in the page cache. Unmount it and
the memory will be freed again.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 18:45:18 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:42:09 +0200
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: address line mangling
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At 14:36 +0200 01-06-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I just realised how screwed up the address mangling really is. The address
>lines for the 2 flash chips (U2, U3) differ completely:

Should not be a problem; see below.

>        You:
>U3  CPU | U2    CPU
>-------------------
>0   -   |  0    -    
>1   -   |  1    -    
>2   9   |  2    9    
>3   13  |  3    8    
>4   8   |  4    7    
>5   12  |  5    6
>6   11  |  6    5
>7   10  |  7    4
>8   4   |  8    10
>9   5   |  9    11
>10  6   | 10    12
>11  7   | 11    13
>12  15  | 12    15
>13  14  | 13    14
>14  16  | 14    16
>15  17  | 15    18
>16  18  | 16    17
>17  20  | 17    20
>18  19  | 18    19
>19  21  | 19    21
>------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
>
>Apart from making life hell to implement CFI probing,

CFI probing on these devices is a non-issue anyway.

>  are you sure the
>addresses isn't screwed across block boundaries? For U2 this is obvious, but
>I'm not so sure about U3.

Let's see: (using 
ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/datashts/29064405.pdf as a 
reference)

- the bottom two address lines are 'special' for bursting (which we 
don't use). On both U2 and U3 these connect to A2 and A3.
- the smallest block size is 4kWords, or 12 address lines. On both U2 
and U3 the twelve least significant address lines connect to A2-A13.
- The largest block size is 32kWords, or 15 address lines. On both U2 
and U3 the fifteen least significant address lines connect to A2-A17.
- The top four address lines on each Flash chip connect to A18-A21.

HTH,

JD 'QED' B.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
                                                      -- Arthur Kasspe
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 19:25:40 2001
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On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, J.D. Bakker wrote:

> At 14:36 +0200 01-06-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> >Apart from making life hell to implement CFI probing,
>
> CFI probing on these devices is a non-issue anyway.

Suggestion:

The LART flash driver as long as Linux is concerned should probably be a MTD
driver of its own, independent from the generic CFI/StrataFlash/Whatever
flash support offered by MTD.  Just like the older flash driver, you'd only
need to provide the following MTD object:

struct mtd_info lart_flash_mtd = {
	name:		"LART funky flash device",
	type:		MTD_NORFLASH,
	flags:		MTD_CAP_NORFLASH,
	size:		4*1024*1024,	/* was it 4MB? */
	erasesize:	64*1024,	/* was it 64kB block size (combined)? */
	erase:		lart_flash_erase,
	read:		lart_flash_read,
	write:		lart_flash_write,
	module:		THIS_MODULE
};

And then you only need to implement the lart_flash_erase(),
lart_flash_read(), and lart_flash_write() functions and you're done.

No probing, no address line demangling, no bother.  Just let the CPU write
to flash the way it sees it (much easier for bootloader updates and all from
Linux).  Since the line mangling is contained within erase blocks, then you
don't have anymore problems.  Define the flash commands into constants with
the data demangling already applied.  At initialisation time, you'll only
need to do add_mtd_device(&lart_flash_mtd) and you're done.

JFFS2 will work, the mtdblock interface will work, etc.  Add partition
definitions if you need with a call to add_mtd_partitions() instead.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  1 19:58:11 2001
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:56:06 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, abraham@2d3d.co.za
Subject: Re: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
Message-ID: <20010601195606.W13054@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
References: <20010601121639.A28098@crystal.2d3d.co.za>  <20010601155434.A30739@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <20010601174128X.hanzl@unknown-domain>
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 05:41:28PM +0200, hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
> > I've got a ramdisk ... you can't have passwords ...
> > Apart from that ... cool, small ...
> 
> Hi Abraham and other happy owners of working ramdisk images,
> 
> could you please publish what you have? The only working image I found
> so far is mp3disk from Aleph site (I tried images from LART site and
> Nico's image, getting various failures with all of them), so this is
> rather scarce resource for lazy beginners without their own ramdisk
> image :)

Nico's ramdisk works perfectly with LART, I've been using it when
testing the ethernet driver. With the newer kernels (>= 2.4.4-rmk3-np1)
you'll need to change it a little bit because the SA11x0 serial driver
got a new major number. Check out the arm-linux-announce list on
www.arm.linux.org.uk for more information about this.

> Along this line, I decided to make my LART directory public, including
> all my mess contained therein:
> 
>   http://noel.feld.cvut.cz/LART/
> 
> Use at your (and your dog's :) own risk if you want.

Be sure to put that somewhere in the directory.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jun  3 18:59:41 2001
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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Xiang 
Reply-To: ahgu@yahoo.com
Subject: IDE, mouse and keyboard?
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl, abraham@2d3d.co.za
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With the IDE, mouse,keyboard, and LCD? Can I compile
code inside the linuxARM LART environment?
I am thinking of using the ethernet as the downloading
agent like vxworks. But if I can hook up a IDE and
work/debug in the same system, that could be easier to
develop and debug. What you guys think?


How do I hook up the keyboard ,mouse and IDE to the
SA1110? I know the mouse goes through the serial port.
Would anyone give me some information on that.

thanks

-Andrew








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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jun  3 22:40:29 2001
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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:30:28 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Andrew Xiang 
Cc: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: IDE, mouse and keyboard?
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On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:41:25AM -0700, Andrew Xiang wrote:
> With the IDE, mouse,keyboard, and LCD? Can I compile
> code inside the linuxARM LART environment?

The nice thing about linux (and also arm-linux) is that it doesn't
depend on LCDs, mouses or keyboards to work (unlike other would-be
OSs out there).

> I am thinking of using the ethernet as the downloading
> agent like vxworks. But if I can hook up a IDE and
> work/debug in the same system, that could be easier to
> develop and debug. What you guys think?

There is no difference between running linux from an IDE disk and
running it on an NFS root filesystem. I have no idea how vxworks is
supposed to work.

> How do I hook up the keyboard ,mouse and IDE to the
> SA1110? I know the mouse goes through the serial port.

Note that only old serial mouses use standard RS232 serial ports;
modern mouses use PS/2 port (also some kind of serial port) or USB.

Serial mouses are easy to connect to an SA11x0 board, serial keyboard
can also be done (the ipaq people on handhelds.org have code for the
stowaway keyboard on serial port). The LART will be doing both PS/2
mouse and keyboard through the KSB CPLDs.

IDE is quite easy: have an address decoder on the SA11x0 bus that
decodes the drive into PCMCIA IO regions, put a couple of buffers
between the IDE drive and the SA11x0 (3.3V <--> 5V) and you're set. See
the KSB design.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun  4 09:27:56 2001
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Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:24:25 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Gad Hayisraeli 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: flash
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Hi Gad!

> > Yes, the ramdisk isn't dependant on LART. The flash utility is however.=
 If
> > you're a programmer (you are right? *g*), it should be trivial to
> > change the
> > code to work for other platforms tho.
>=20
> can you please specify the code lines to be changed to suit other platfor=
ms
> ?

flash.h: You'll have to change FLASH_OFFSET, FLASH_LENGTH and possibly
FLASH_BLOCKSIZE (only if you bus width is different tho which I doubt).

flash.c: data_to_flash() and flash_to_data() currently unmangles the
datalines which I suspect is not mangled at all on your platform, so you can
change them to something like:

#define flash_to_data(x) (x)
#define data_to_flash(x) (x)

And of course, if you're not using blob, you'll have to change main.c as we=
ll.

> > So where should I put the ramdisk? It's a bit big to mail unless nobody
> > minds a 1mb+ mime encoded attachment (;
> >
> you can ask netwinder to give you username and you can put your ramdisk
> there.
> don't send it by mail.
> BTW: what you can put in <1M ramdisk ?

Lots of things (: Remember this is a gzip'd filesystem. I've currently got
busybox and tinylogin on there with almost all their features enabled,
ldconfig, rz, sz, hextype, my flash utility, bash, a couple of libraries,
etc. which makes up just under 2M's of space.

I'll put up a small web page at home tonight with the ramdisk and other
stuff I've done for LART.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

You will experience a strong urge to do good; but it will pass.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: IDE, mouse and keyboard?
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Hi Andrew!

> With the IDE, mouse,keyboard, and LCD? Can I compile

No keyboard support for LART. You can get a serial mouse, but ich...

> code inside the linuxARM LART environment?
> I am thinking of using the ethernet as the downloading
> agent like vxworks. But if I can hook up a IDE and
> work/debug in the same system, that could be easier to
> develop and debug. What you guys think?

Hiehie. This is not too far fetched tho. You can get a proper arm distro on
the hdd and work via serial console. That should be perfect.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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Hi Gad!

> do you have working ramdisk with JFFS ?

Not yet. I first have to write a MTD driver.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

One does not thank logic.
		-- Sarek, "Journey to Babel", stardate 3842.4

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:41:55 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: 28F160x3 flash size
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Hi!

Could somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

According to the "3 Volt Fast Boot Block Flash Memory" Intel Datasheet the
block size of 28Fxxxx memory is 32K. For 28F800F3 there's 15 blocks and for
28F160F3 there's 31 blocks (see section 2.3.2)

So, since there's two flash chips on LART and each chip is 16-bits, the
total flash size is:

size =3D 32K * 31 * 16bits * 2 =3D 31768*31*2*2 =3D 3939232 << 4MB

So the question is, is the chips 4MB or 3939232 bytes (~3.75M)

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Ben, why didn't you tell me?
		-- Luke Skywalker

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun  4 13:19:16 2001
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At 12:41 +0200 04-06-2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Could somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>According to the "3 Volt Fast Boot Block Flash Memory" Intel Datasheet the
>block size of 28Fxxxx memory is 32K. For 28F800F3 there's 15 blocks and for
>28F160F3 there's 31 blocks (see section 2.3.2)
>
>So, since there's two flash chips on LART and each chip is 16-bits, the
>total flash size is:
>
>size = 32K * 31 * 16bits * 2 = 31768*31*2*2 = 3939232 << 4MB
>
>So the question is, is the chips 4MB or 3939232 bytes (~3.75M)

4MB. See section 2.3.1: the chip *also* has eight 4kWord 'parameter 
blocks', or boot blocks, in addition to the 31 32kWord main blocks. 
In a default LART install, blob lives in the parameter blocks (with 
ample room to spare).  See figure six of 
ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/datashts/29064405.pdf for a 
memory map.

I am not sure if it is easy to teach the MTD about flash devices with 
two different block sizes (then again, lots of PC motherboards use 
similar devices for their BIOS).

JDB.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun  4 13:37:21 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: 28F160x3 flash size
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Hi J.D.!

> 4MB. See section 2.3.1: the chip *also* has eight 4kWord 'parameter
> blocks', or boot blocks, in addition to the 31 32kWord main blocks.

Oh yes, I forgfot about those (;

> In a default LART install, blob lives in the parameter blocks (with=20
> ample room to spare).  See figure six of
> ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/datashts/29064405.pdf for a=20
> memory map.

Ok, what I'm going to do then is to let the MTD driver think the flash
starts at the 32k blocks, i.e. it won't be able to access blob's space.

Is this allright with everyone or is there some maniac who wants to access
the first 8*4k as well?

> I am not sure if it is easy to teach the MTD about flash devices with=20
> two different block sizes (then again, lots of PC motherboards use=20
> similar devices for their BIOS).

No, it's just extra work :P

Actually on second thought, it's not that easy since MTD only allows for one
erasesize to be specified.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Agree with them now, it will save so much time.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun  4 13:47:33 2001
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Subject: Re: 28F160x3 flash size
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> So the question is, is the chips 4MB or 3939232 bytes (~3.75M)

I guess there are also so called "parameter blocks" which are smaller
and fill the rest (on some memories they have separate hw write protection)
and otherwise live in the same 4MB address space?

Vaclav
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On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi J.D.!
>
> > 4MB. See section 2.3.1: the chip *also* has eight 4kWord 'parameter
> > blocks', or boot blocks, in addition to the 31 32kWord main blocks.
>
> Oh yes, I forgfot about those (;
>
> > In a default LART install, blob lives in the parameter blocks (with
> > ample room to spare).  See figure six of
> > ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/datashts/29064405.pdf for a
> > memory map.
>
> Ok, what I'm going to do then is to let the MTD driver think the flash
> starts at the 32k blocks, i.e. it won't be able to access blob's space.

Instead, make two separate MTD registrations: one for the 32k erase block
size, and the other for the boot blocks.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun  4 18:34:17 2001
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Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:25:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Wookey 
Subject: Re: IDE, mouse and keyboard?
To: Andrew Xiang 
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On Sun 03 Jun, Andrew Xiang wrote:
> With the IDE, mouse,keyboard, and LCD? Can I compile
> code inside the linuxARM LART environment?

As has been pointed out there are certain practical problem with actually
hooking up your IO devices, but apart from that (and using a serial terminal
from another machine (which can be as small as a Psion5 or ipaq) solves them
for now) then installing a proper gcc environment and doing native compiling
on the LART is no problem. 

The easiest way is to install standard Debian onto an HD connected to the IDE
and run it with a suitable kernel. This is currently rather fiddly - I'm
working on some nice docs and even a new bootflopiies that does the hard work
for you.

Wookey
-- 
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK  Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/     play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun  5 05:42:25 2001
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From: "Son Nguyen" 
To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: want to buy:  a used LART
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:35:50 -0400
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hi all, does anyone here have a used LART that you want to
sell?  I would be very interested in purchasing a used unit
for learning purposes.  Please email me: throne7@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun  5 09:27:16 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Gad Hayisraeli 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
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Hi Gad!

> i dont understand : i read in the lists that the kernel is already support
> jffs 1+2
> why do you think you have to write your own drv ?

Because there is no chip driver for the LART / 28Fxxx fast boot bloc flash
chips yet.

See, the MTD drivers basically consists of 2 layers. A user layer which
implements things like jffs (read filesystems) and flash translation layers
and then there's a lowlevel chip driver which deals with each individual
flash chip or series of chips.

This chip driver is missing so you won't be able to use jffs on a platform
using these flash chips.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Are we on STRIKE yet?

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun  5 09:43:08 2001
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Hi!

I see in the sa1100 maps driver of MTD (sa1100-flash.c) there is a definiti=
on

#define WINDOW_ADDR 0xe8000000

which is used as a base address for all read/write's.

I've searched through the StronArm 1100 and 1110 data sheets and I can find=
 no
reference of such an address.

Could somebody please explain this to me?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

PARDON me, am I speaking ENGLISH?

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun  5 13:34:43 2001
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Subject: Re: flash
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Hi Abraham,

I just tried your flash program and got segfault (see below).
Any ideas what is wrong?

Thanks

Vaclav

=================
Hardware: LART+KSB
Kernel: 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 with fork() fix, old serial, ucb1200 support, ide support
Ramdisk: mp3disk
flash: first version mailed to LART list

Error got:

bash-2.01# ./flash zImage /dev/null
Uploading zImage.
Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0000116d
Erasing pgd = c9398000
blocks: *pgd = c95008010/4 (0%), *pmd = c9500801, *pte = 00000000, *ppte = 00000000
Internal error: Oops: 0
CPU: 0
pc : []    lr : []
sp : c0687ef4  ip : c0687f08  fp : c0687f34
r10: c0686000  r9 : c0687fb8  r8 : 00000001
r7 : ffffffff  r6 : 000400b3  r5 : 40143000  r4 : 00001165
r3 : c818fadc  r2 : 00000065  r1 : c010c07c  r0 : 00001165
Flags: nZCv  IRQs on  FIQs on  Mode SVC_32  Segment user
Control: C939917F  Table: C939917F  DAC: 00000015
Process flash (pid: 38, stackpage=c0687000)
Code: e92dd810 e1a04000 (e5943008) e24cb004 e3530000 
Stack:
c0687ee0:          c002f460 c0019a08 60000013  ffffffff c000e3a0 c0687f34 c0687f08 
c0687f00: c002f460 c0019a08 00000001 c000e720  c000e3a0 c0686000 ffffffff 40143000 
c0687f20: ffffffff c951e220 c0687f5c c0687f38  c0018b5c c002f310 c951e23c c0686000 
c0687f40: c0687fb8 c951e220 40143000 ffffffff  c0687f90 c0687f60 c0018ce4 c0018afc 
c0687f60: c000e4e0 00000000 c0100c78 40143000  c0687fb8 c00d9818 0000000f 020018fc 
c0687f80: 00070618 c0687fb4 c0687f94 c00199bc  c0018c7c c0100c78 00000064 40143000 
c0687fa0: c000517f 00000001 00000000 c0687fb8  c0013684 c00198fc 00d000d0 00000003 
c0687fc0: 00000006 04000004 40103000 00000064  40143000 00040000 00000001 020018fc 
c0687fe0: 00070618 bffffd48 bffffcf0 bffffd24  fffffffc 02000f94 20000010 ffffffff 
Backtrace: 
Function entered at [] from []
Function entered at [] from []
Function entered at [] from []
Function entered at [] from []
 r8 = 00000001  r7 = C000517F  r6 = 40143000  r5 = 00000064
 r4 = C0100C78 
Segmentation fault

===================================================
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Tue Jun  5 13:54:17 2001
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Hi hanzl!

> I just tried your flash program and got segfault (see below).
> Any ideas what is wrong?

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Hardware: LART+KSB
> Kernel: 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 with fork() fix, old serial, ucb1200 support, ide =
support
> Ramdisk: mp3disk
> flash: first version mailed to LART list
>=20
> Error got:
>=20
> bash-2.01# ./flash zImage /dev/null
> Uploading zImage.
> Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0000116d
> Erasing pgd =3D c9398000
> blocks: *pgd =3D c95008010/4 (0%), *pmd =3D c9500801, *pte =3D 00000000, =
*ppte =3D 00000000

Very interesting. It crashed when it tried to erase the first block (you can
see the "Erasing blocks: 0/4 (0%)" popping up there. That shouldn't happen
unless your kernel didn't map the flash memory in which case the mmap()
wouldv'e failed.

Have you tried another kernel?

What LART board is this? Did you build it yourself or is this one of the
Aleph1 boards?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

 damn, the autonomous mouse movement starts usually after I use a
      mouse button
 don't use a mouse button then :)
 yeah, right :)

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Cc: hanzl@noel.feld.cvut.cz, lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: flash
In-Reply-To: <20010605135329.A32228@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
References: <20010601121639.A28098@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
	<20010605134133B.hanzl@unknown-domain>
	<20010605135329.A32228@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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>> Kernel: 2.4.4-rmk3-np1 with fork() fix, old serial, ucb1200 support, ide support
>> Ramdisk: mp3disk
>> 
>> bash-2.01# ./flash zImage /dev/null
>> Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0000116d
>
>Have you tried another kernel?
>

I did now, and it works! Thanks a lot, my kernel is in flash.

Now I used pre-uucoded zImage-2.4.0-rmk5-np2 from Aleph site to run
'flash', and it works.

Vaclav

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 04:59:08 2001
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From: "Gad Hayisraeli" 
To: "Abraham vd Merwe" 
Cc: "Lart Mailinglist" 
Subject: RE: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:53:02 +0300
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> Because there is no chip driver for the LART / 28Fxxx fast boot bloc flash
> chips yet.
>
> See, the MTD drivers basically consists of 2 layers. A user layer which
> implements things like jffs (read filesystems) and flash
> translation layers
> and then there's a lowlevel chip driver which deals with each individual
> flash chip or series of chips.
>
> This chip driver is missing so you won't be able to use jffs on a platform
> using these flash chips.
>
	so, on the assabet i cannot use jffs ? (it uses the 28fxxxx chips as well)
	nico , please also answer this, cause you've recommended me before to use
	jffs on the assabet.
	can you tell me which arm platform / flash chips are supported by the mtd
	flash driver + 	jffs ?

	Gad



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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 07:29:27 2001
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From: "Stock Wu" 
To: , 
Subject: How to wake up assabet?
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:17:56 +0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EE8B.199BCE40
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	charset="Windows-1252"
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I use blob as my boot loader.
When I do " cat /proc/sys/pm/suspend" ,  assabet sleeping. 
I use GPIO_0/SW1 as wake-up events.
when I push down sw1, But never wake up .

This is the comment of  (in blob):
/* check if this is a wake-up from sleep */
/* no, continue booting */
 /* yes, a wake-up. get the value from the PSPR and jump to it */

I attached  (in blob), and  (in kernel).

Thanks!

Dorothy Wu

------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EE8B.199BCE40
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="start.S"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="start.S"

#########################################################################=
##=0A=
## Filename:      start.S=0A=
## Version:       $Id: start.S,v 1.18 2000/07/14 17:25:11 erikm Exp $=0A=
## Copyright:     Copyright (C) 1999, Erik Mouw=0A=
## Author:        Erik Mouw =0A=
## Description:   blob start code=0A=
## Created at:    Sun Jul 18 20:29:08 1999=0A=
## Modified by:   Erik Mouw =0A=
## Modified at:   Fri Jul  14 17:55:36 2000=0A=
#########################################################################=
##=0A=
/*=0A=
 * start.S: blob start code=0A=
 *=0A=
 * Copyright (C) 1999  Erik Mouw (J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl) and =0A=
 *                     Jan-Derk Bakker (J.D.Bakker@its.tudelft.nl)=0A=
 *=0A=
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify=0A=
 * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by=0A=
 * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or=0A=
 * (at your option) any later version.=0A=
 *=0A=
 * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,=0A=
 * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of=0A=
 * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the=0A=
 * GNU General Public License for more details.=0A=
 *=0A=
 * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License=0A=
 * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software=0A=
 * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  =
USA=0A=
 *=0A=
 */=0A=
/*=0A=
 * This is the blob start code. The SA-1100 jumps to address 0x00000000=0A=
 * after a reset. We put a single branch code at this position which =
jumps=0A=
 * to a safe region to do the actual setup. All other vectors just point=0A=
 * to an endless loop for the moment.=0A=
 *=0A=
 * Documentation: =0A=
 * [1] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1100 Microprocessor=0A=
 *     Developer's Manual", April 1999=0A=
 * [2] S. Furber, "ARM System Architecture", Addison Wesley Longman=0A=
 *     Ltd., Essex, England, 1996.=0A=
 * [3] Intel Corporation, "Intel StrongARM SA-1110 Microprocessor=0A=
 *     Advanced Developer's manual, December 1999=0A=
 */=0A=
=0A=
.ident "$Id: start.S,v 1.18 2000/07/14 17:25:11 erikm Exp $"=0A=
=0A=
#ifdef HAVE_CONFIG_H=0A=
# include "config.h"=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
.text=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
	=0A=
	=0A=
/* Jump vector table as in table 3.1 in [1] */=0A=
.globl _start=0A=
_start:	b	reset=0A=
	b	undefined_instruction=0A=
	b	software_interrupt=0A=
	b	abort_prefetch=0A=
	b	abort_data=0A=
	b	not_used=0A=
	b	irq=0A=
	b	fiq=0A=
=0A=
/* some defines to make life easier */=0A=
/* Register addresses can be found in [1] Appendix A */=0A=
IC_BASE:        .word   0x90050000=0A=
#define ICMR    0x04=0A=
PWR_BASE:	.word	0x90020000=0A=
#define PSPR	0x08=0A=
#define PPCR	0x14=0A=
RST_BASE:	.word	0x90030000=0A=
#define RCSR	0x04=0A=
=0A=
MEM_START:	.word	0xc0000000=0A=
FLASH_START:	.word	0x00000000	=0A=
	=0A=
	=0A=
reset:=0A=
	/* check if this is a wake-up from sleep */=0A=
	ldr	r0, RST_BASE=0A=
	ldr	r1, [r0, #RCSR]=0A=
	tst	r1, #0x08=0A=
	beq	normal_boot	/* no, continue booting */=0A=
=0A=
	/* yes, a wake-up. get the value from the PSPR and jump to it */=0A=
	ldr	r0, PWR_BASE=0A=
	ldr	r1, [r0, #PSPR]=0A=
	mov	pc, r1=0A=
=0A=
normal_boot:=0A=
	=0A=
	/* Register addresses can be found in [1] Appendix A */=0A=
=0A=
	/* First, mask **ALL** interrupts */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x90000000=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x50000=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x00=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x4]=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
	/* Switch the CPU to 221 MHz by writing the PPCR. */=0A=
	/* Don't worry, 221 MHz is also safe for 190 MHz CPUs. */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x90000000=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x20000=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x0b=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x14]=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	/* Setup memory */=0A=
	=0A=
#if defined USE_SA1100=0A=
	/* This part is actually for the LART. If your board needs other=0A=
	 * settings, you'll have to ifdef them here, although the LART=0A=
	 * settings work for most SA-1100 boards.=0A=
	 */=0A=
=0A=
	/* Set up the DRAM in banks 0 and 1 */=0A=
	/* MDCAS0 */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0xA0000000=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0xC7000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x001C0000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00007000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000003F=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x04]=0A=
=0A=
	/* MDCAS1 */=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0xFF000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00C70000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00001C00=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00000071=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x08]	=0A=
=0A=
	/* MDCAS2 */=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0xFF000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00FF0000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000FF00=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x000000FF=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x0C]	=0A=
=0A=
	/* MDCNFG */=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0x03000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00340000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000B200=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000002f=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x00]=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
#elif defined USE_SA1110=0A=
	/* This part is actually for the Assabet only. If your board=0A=
	 * uses other settings, you'll have to ifdef them here.=0A=
	 */=0A=
	/* Set up the SDRAM */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0xA0000000		/* MDCNFG base address */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0xAAAAAA7F=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x04]		/* MDCAS00 */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x20]		/* MDCAS20 */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0xAAAAAAAA=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x08]		/* MDCAS01 */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x24]		/* MDCAS21 */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0xAAAAAAAA=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x0C]		/* MDCAS02 */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x28]		/* MDCAS22 */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x4dbc0327		/* MDREFR */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x1C]=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x72547254		/* MDCNFG */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x00]=0A=
=0A=
	/* Issue read requests to disabled bank to start refresh */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r1, =3D0xC0000000=0A=
=0A=
.rept	8	=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r1]=0A=
.endr=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r1, #0xA0000000		/* MDCNFG base address */=0A=
	=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x72547255		/* Enable the banks */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x00]		/* MDCNFG */=0A=
	=0A=
/* Static memory chip selects on Assabet: */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x4b90			/* MCS0 */=0A=
	orr	r2,r2,r2,lsl #16=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x10]=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x22212419			/* MCS1 */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x14]=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x42196669			/* MCS2 */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x2C]=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0xafccafcc			/* SMCNFG */=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x30]=0A=
=0A=
/* Set up PCMCIA space */=0A=
=0A=
	ldr	r2, =3D0x994a994a=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x18]=0A=
=0A=
/* All SDRAM memory settings should be ready to go... */=0A=
/* For best performance, should fill out remaining memory config regs: */=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	/* Testing ,Chester */=0A=
	mov r3,#0x12000000=0A=
	mov r2,#0x5000                 /* D9_LED on and D8_LED off */=0A=
	str r2,[r3]=0A=
	mov r4, #0x20000=0A=
gogogo2:=0A=
	subs r4, r4, #1=0A=
	bne gogogo2=0A=
#else=0A=
#error "Configuration error: CPU not defined!"=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	/* Try to transmit over the serial port III. */=0A=
	/* Do port setup the paranoid way */=0A=
=0A=
	/* Now clear all 'sticky' bits in serial registers, cf. [1] 11.11 */=0A=
#if defined USE_SERIAL1=0A=
	/* Serial port 1 on Assabet */=0A=
	ldr r0,=3D0x80020060 	/* GPCLK/UART select,select UART */=0A=
	mov r2,#1=0A=
	str r2,[r0]=0A=
=0A=
	/* Now clear all 'sticky' bits in serial I registers, cf. [1] 11.11 */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x80000000=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x10000=0A=
	=0A=
#elif defined USE_SERIAL3=0A=
	/* Serial port 3 for LART, et al */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x80000000=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x50000=0A=
#else=0A=
#error "Configuration error: serial port not defined!"=0A=
#endif=0A=
	mov	r2, #0xFF=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x1C]=0A=
	=0A=
	/* Set the serial port to sensible defaults: no break, no interrupts, */=0A=
	/* no parity, 8 databits, 1 stopbit. */=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x00=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x0C]=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x08=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x00]=0A=
=0A=
	/* Set BRD to 5, for a baudrate of 38k4 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */=0A=
	/* Set BRD to 23, for a baudrate of 9k6 ([1] 11.11.4.1) */=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x00=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x04]=0A=
	mov	r2, #23=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x08]=0A=
=0A=
	/* Initialize the GPDR (GPIO Pin Direction Register) in such a=0A=
	way that the LED is on an output port */=0A=
=0A=
	/* load the GPIO base in r2 */	=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x90000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x40000=0A=
=0A=
#if defined ASSABET=0A=
	/* Bit 17 is the LED on Zilker */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x00020000=0A=
	str	r1, [r2, #0x04]=0A=
=0A=
	/* The LED controls FORCE_ON, so turn it on here */=0A=
	str     r1, [r2, #0x08]=0A=
#elif defined BRUTUS=0A=
#warning "FIXME: Include code to turn on one of the Brutus LEDs over =
here"=0A=
#elif defined LART=0A=
	/* Bit 23 is the LED, according to JDB */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x00800000=0A=
	str	r1, [r2, #0x04]=0A=
=0A=
	/* The LED controls FORCE_ON, so turn it on here */=0A=
	str     r1, [r2, #0x08]=0A=
#elif defined PLEB=0A=
#warning "FIXME: Include code to turn on one of the PLEB LEDs over here"=0A=
#else=0A=
#warning "FIXME: Include code to turn on one of the LEDs on your board"=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
	/* Prepare to send some characters out in a loop */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x80000000=0A=
#if defined USE_SERIAL1=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x10000=0A=
#elif defined USE_SERIAL3=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x50000	=0A=
#else=0A=
#error "Configuration error: serial port not defined!"=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
	/* Enable the transmitter */=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x02=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x0C]=0A=
=0A=
	/* Send out a welcome message */=0A=
	adr	r0, welcome=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
/* Send out a jerry add message */=0A=
	adr	r0, jerry=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
#if defined LART=0A=
	/* Determine whether this code runs from main flash or external flash */=0A=
	/* Clue: Main flash is 32 bit, external is 16 bit. */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0xA0000000=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r1, #0x10]=0A=
	ands	r0, r0, #0x04=0A=
	bne	cpy_ext2int=0A=
=0A=
	/* Put the main flash to the correct speed */=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0xAD000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x008C0000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00004800=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00000088=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x10]=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, int_flash_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
test_mem:=0A=
	/* Start the memory tester, hardcoded bank 0 & 1 for now */=0A=
	adr	r0, start_test=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
	/* Erase memory */=0A=
	adr	r0, zeroing_mem=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r4, #0xC0000000=0A=
	mov	r5, #0xD0000000=0A=
	mov	r6, #0x400000=0A=
	sub	r6, r6, #0x01=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, r4=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
=0A=
zero_loop:=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r2, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r7, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r8, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r9, #0x0=0A=
	mov	r10, #0x0=0A=
zero_loop1:=0A=
	stmia	r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10}=0A=
	stmia	r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10}=0A=
	stmia	r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10}=0A=
	stmia	r4!, {r0-r3, r7-r10}=0A=
	tst	r4, r6=0A=
	bne	zero_loop1=0A=
	adr	r0, del10=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r4=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	cmp	r4, r5=0A=
	blt	zero_loop=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, zeroing_done=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r4, #0xC0000000=0A=
	mov	r5, #0xD0000000=0A=
	mov	r6, r4 /* Base for current block */=0A=
	mov	r7, #0x0 /* Diff between r4 and [r4] */=0A=
=0A=
	/* Go hunting for aliases */=0A=
alias_loop:=0A=
	ldr	r8, [r4]=0A=
	cmp	r8, #0x0=0A=
	streq	r4, [r4] /* If the value was zero, load r4 to it */=0A=
	moveq	r8, r4=0A=
	sub	r9, r4, r8=0A=
	cmp	r9, r7 /* Is this a new block ? */=0A=
	bne	alias_detected=0A=
	add	r4, r4, #0x1000=0A=
	cmp	r4, r5=0A=
	blt	alias_loop	=0A=
	b	alias_done=0A=
=0A=
alias_detected:=0A=
=0A=
#	adr	r0, block_at_str=0A=
#	bl	print_str=0A=
#	mov	r0, r6=0A=
#	bl	print_hex=0A=
#	adr	r0, length_str=0A=
#	bl	print_str=0A=
#	sub	r0, r4, r6=0A=
#	bl	print_hex=0A=
	sub	r8, r6, r7=0A=
	cmp	r7, #0x0	/* Is this a 'new' block ? */=0A=
	moveq	r10, r6		/* If so, remember the start of this block...*/ =0A=
	moveq	r11, r4		/* ...and the start of the next block */=0A=
	mov	r6, r4=0A=
	mov	r7, r9=0A=
	beq	alias_loop=0A=
#	adr	r0, alias_for_str=0A=
#	bl	print_str=0A=
#	mov	r0, r8=0A=
#	bl	print_hex=0A=
	b	alias_loop=0A=
=0A=
alias_done:=0A=
=0A=
	/* Set up the stack pointer */=0A=
	sub	sp, r11, #0x04=0A=
=0A=
	/* Arg 0 of the C code is the start of the block it can use; */  							=
			=0A=
	/* arg 1 is the size of that block. */=0A=
	mov	r0, r10=0A=
	sub	r1, r11, r10=0A=
=0A=
	/* Jump to the C code */=0A=
jump_to_c:=0A=
	bl	c_main=0A=
=0A=
	/* The c code should never return ! */=0A=
	b	reset=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
blinky:=0A=
	/* The old blinker */=0A=
	mov     r2, #0x90000000=0A=
	add     r2, r2, #0x40000=0A=
	mov     r1, #0x00800000=0A=
=0A=
old_led_on:=0A=
	/* turn on the LED by writing the GPSR (GPIO Pin output Set=0A=
	Register) */=0A=
	str	r1, [r2, #0x08]=0A=
	mov	r4, #0x10000=0A=
loop1:=0A=
	subs	r4, r4, #1=0A=
	bne	loop1=0A=
=0A=
old_led_off:=0A=
	/* turn off the LED by writing the GPCR (GPIO Pin output Clear=0A=
	Register) */=0A=
	str	r1, [r2, #0x0c]=0A=
=0A=
	mov     r4, #0x10000=0A=
loop2:=0A=
	subs    r4, r4, #1=0A=
	bne	loop2=0A=
=0A=
	/* and loop forever */=0A=
	b	old_led_on=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
jerry:=0A=
	.string "\n\r\n\rJerry wu add!\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
welcome:=0A=
	.string "\n\r\n\rConsider yourself LARTed!\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
int_flash_str:=0A=
	.string "Running from internal Flash.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
start_test:=0A=
	.string "Starting the memory tester...\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
zeroing_mem:=0A=
	.string "Zeroing memory..."=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
zeroing_done:=0A=
	.string "\n\rZeroing done. Testing for aliases...\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
del10:=0A=
	.string "\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
block_at_str:=0A=
	.string "\n\rBlock at "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
length_str:=0A=
	.string " with length "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
alias_for_str:=0A=
	.string " is an alias of "=0A=
.align 4=0A=
=0A=
	/* Subroutine that sends a string over the serial port */=0A=
	/* The address of the string should be in r0 */=0A=
print_str:=0A=
	/* Save the return address */=0A=
	mov	r13, r14=0A=
	mov	r2, r0=0A=
prs1:=0A=
	ldrsb	r0, [r2]=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x01=0A=
	ands	r0, r0, #0xFF=0A=
	beq	prs2=0A=
	bl	print_byte=0A=
	b	prs1=0A=
=0A=
prs2:=0A=
	/* Return */=0A=
	mov	pc, r13=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	/* Subroutine to send a hex word (in r0) over the serial port */=0A=
print_hex:=0A=
	mov	r13, r14=0A=
	mov	r2, r0=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x08=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x30=0A=
	bl	print_byte=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x78=0A=
	bl	print_byte=0A=
prh1:=0A=
	and	r0, r2, #0xF0000000=0A=
	mov	r0, r0, lsr #28=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x30=0A=
	cmp	r0, #0x3A=0A=
	addge	r0, r0, #0x07=0A=
	bl	print_byte=0A=
	mov	r2, r2, lsl #4=0A=
	subs	r3, r3, #0x01	=0A=
	bne	prh1=0A=
=0A=
	mov	pc, r13=0A=
=0A=
	/* Subroutine that sends a byte over the serial port. */=0A=
	/* The byte is in r0 */=0A=
print_byte:=0A=
	/* Wait for room in the tx fifo */=0A=
	mov     r1, #0x80000000=0A=
#if defined USE_SERIAL1=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x10000=0A=
#elif defined USE_SERIAL3=0A=
	add     r1, r1, #0x50000=0A=
#else=0A=
#error "Configuration error: serial port not defined!"=0A=
#endif=0A=
	ldr     r1, [r1, #0x1C]=0A=
	ands    r1, r1, #0x01=0A=
	beq	print_byte=0A=
=0A=
	mov     r1, #0x80000000=0A=
#if defined USE_SERIAL1=0A=
	add     r1, r1, #0x10000=0A=
#elif defined USE_SERIAL3=0A=
	add	r1, r1, #0x50000=0A=
#else=0A=
#error "Configuration error: serial port not defined!"=0A=
#endif=0A=
	str	r0, [r1, #0x14]=0A=
	mov	pc, r14=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
#if defined LART=0A=
cpy_ext2int:=0A=
=0A=
	/* Put the Flash to the correct speed */=0A=
	mov	r1, #0xA0000000=0A=
	mov	r2,     #0x48000000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x00880000=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000AD00=0A=
	add	r2, r2, #0x0000008C=0A=
	str	r2, [r1, #0x10]=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, ext_flash_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
	/* Get the ID of the internal flash */=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x0090=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00900000=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	mov	r4, #0x08000000=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r4]=0A=
	bl	data_from_flash=0A=
	mov	r5, r0=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r4, #0x04]=0A=
	bl	data_from_flash=0A=
	mov	r6, r0=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x0089=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x00890000=0A=
	cmp	r3, r5=0A=
	beq	flash_man_ok=0A=
	adr	r0, int_unknown_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r5=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	b	cpy_exit=0A=
flash_man_ok:=0A=
	adr	r0, int_intel_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r3,     #0x88000000=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x00F40000=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x00008800=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x000000F4=0A=
	cmp	r3, r6=0A=
	beq	flash_dev_ok=0A=
	adr	r0, int_unknown2_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r6=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	b	cpy_exit=0A=
flash_dev_ok:=0A=
	adr	r0, int_16m_b_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
	/* Find the size of the data in the external flash */=0A=
	mov	r5, #0x020000  /* Sod it, we hardcode it to 128k */=0A=
=0A=
	/* Erase blocks in the internal flash, when needed */=0A=
	mov	r4, #0x08000000=0A=
	add	r6, r4, r5=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00500000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00000050=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
=0A=
erase_loop:=0A=
	/* switch to read array mode, if we're not there already */=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00FF0000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x000000FF=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r4]=0A=
	cmn	r0, #0x01=0A=
	beq	no_erase=0A=
	adr	r0, erase_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r4=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00200000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00000020=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00D00000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x000000D0=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
	bl	wait_status=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x00200000=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x00000020=0A=
	tst	r0, r3=0A=
	beq	erase_ok=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	adr	r0, erase_err_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	b	cpy_exit=0A=
erase_ok:=0A=
	adr	r0, erase_end_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
no_erase:=0A=
	add	r4, r4, #0x04=0A=
	cmp	r4, r6=0A=
	blt	erase_loop=0A=
=0A=
	/* Write blocks to the internal flash */=0A=
	mov	r4, #0x00=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00500000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00000050=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r4]=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, write_start_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
write_loop:=0A=
	ldr	r7, [r4]=0A=
	cmn	r7, #0x01=0A=
	beq	no_write=0A=
	add	r6, r4, #0x08000000=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00400000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00000040=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r6]=0A=
	str	r7, [r6]=0A=
	bl	wait_status=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x00100000=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x00000010=0A=
	tst	r0, r3=0A=
	beq	no_write=0A=
	mov	r7, r0=0A=
	adr	r0, write_err1_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r7=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	adr	r0, write_err2_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r6=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	b	cpy_exit=0A=
no_write:=0A=
	add	r4, r4, #0x04=0A=
	cmp	r4, r5=0A=
	blt	write_loop=0A=
=0A=
	/* Verify blocks written to the internal flash */=0A=
	mov	r4, #0x00=0A=
	add	r6, r4, #0x08000000=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00500000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x00000050=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r6]=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00FF0000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x000000FF=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	str	r0, [r6]=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, vrfy_start_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
vrfy_loop:=0A=
	ldr	r7, [r4]=0A=
	add	r6, r4, #0x08000000=0A=
	ldr	r8, [r6]=0A=
	cmp	r7, r8=0A=
	beq	next_vrfy=0A=
	adr	r0, vrfy_err1_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r6=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	adr	r0, vrfy_err2_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r7=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	adr	r0, vrfy_err3_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
	mov	r0, r8=0A=
	bl	print_hex=0A=
	b	cpy_exit=0A=
next_vrfy:=0A=
	add	r4, r4, #0x04=0A=
	cmp	r4, r5=0A=
	blt	vrfy_loop=0A=
=0A=
	adr	r0, cpy_done_str=0A=
	bl	print_str=0A=
=0A=
cpy_exit:=0A=
	b	test_mem=0A=
	=0A=
.align 4=0A=
ext_flash_str:=0A=
	.string "Running from external flash.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
int_intel_str:=0A=
	.string "Internal flash manufacturer: Intel.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
int_unknown_str:=0A=
	.string "Error: Unknown internal flash manufacturer ID "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
int_16m_b_str:=0A=
	.string "Internal flash devices: 2 x 28F160F3 16Mbit bottom flash.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
int_unknown2_str:=0A=
	.string "Error: Unknown internal flash devices ID "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
erase_str:=0A=
	.string "Erasing block at "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
erase_err_str:=0A=
	.string "  <- error !\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
erase_end_str:=0A=
	.string " done.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
write_start_str:=0A=
	.string "Writing data...\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
write_err1_str:=0A=
	.string "Error "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
write_err2_str:=0A=
	.string " at "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
vrfy_start_str:=0A=
	.string "Verifying data...\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
vrfy_err1_str: =0A=
	.string "Verify error at address "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
vrfy_err2_str:=0A=
	.string "; expected : "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
vrfy_err3_str:=0A=
	.string	"; found : "=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
cpy_done_str:=0A=
	.string "Copying done.\n\r"=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
.align 4=0A=
	/* Wait for the status of *both* internal flash devices to be ready. */=0A=
	/* Returns the status in r0. */=0A=
wait_status:=0A=
	mov	r13, r14=0A=
wait_status_loop:=0A=
	mov	r0, #0x00700000=0A=
	add	r0, r0, #0x0070=0A=
	bl	data_to_flash=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x08000000=0A=
	str	r0, [r1]=0A=
	ldr	r0, [r1]=0A=
	bl	data_from_flash=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000080=0A=
	tstne	r0, #0x00800000=0A=
	beq	wait_status_loop=0A=
	mov	pc, r13=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
.globl	data_to_flash=0A=
.globl	data_from_flash=0A=
	/* Subroutine that takes data in r0 and formats it so it will be in */=0A=
	/* the correct order for the internal flash */=0A=
data_to_flash:=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x0=0A=
	=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000001=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00001000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000002=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00004000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000004=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000800=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000008=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000200=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000010=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000001=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000020=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000004=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000040=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000080=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000080=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000020=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000100=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00002000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000200=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00008000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000400=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000400=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000800=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000100=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00001000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000002=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00002000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000008=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00004000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000040=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00008000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000010=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00010000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00100000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00020000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00400000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00040000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00080000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00080000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00020000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00100000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x01000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00200000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x04000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00400000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x80000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00800000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x20000000=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x01000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00200000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x02000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00800000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x04000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00040000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x08000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00010000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x10000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x02000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x20000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x08000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x40000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x40000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x80000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x10000000=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, r1=0A=
	mov	pc, r14=0A=
=0A=
	/* Takes data received from the flash, and unshuffles it. */=0A=
data_from_flash:=0A=
	mov	r1, #0x00=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000001=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000010=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000002=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00001000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000004=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000020=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000008=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00002000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000010=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00008000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000020=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000080=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000040=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00004000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000080=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000040=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000100=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000800=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000200=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000008=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000400=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000400=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00000800=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000004=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00001000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000001=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00002000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000100=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00004000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000002=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00008000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00000200=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00010000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x08000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00020000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00080000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00040000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x04000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00080000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00040000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00100000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00010000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00200000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x01000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00400000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00020000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x00800000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x02000000=0A=
=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x01000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00100000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x02000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x10000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x04000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00200000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x08000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x20000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x10000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x80000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x20000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00800000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x40000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x40000000=0A=
	tst	r0, #0x80000000=0A=
	orrne	r1, r1, #0x00400000=0A=
=0A=
	mov	r0, r1=0A=
	mov	pc, r14=0A=
	=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
#if defined USE_SA1110=0A=
tenthSecDelay:  /* Well, actually not that much :) */=0A=
	mov	r3, #0x90000000=0A=
	add	r3, r3, #0x10000=0A=
	ldr	r4, [r3, #0x4]=0A=
1:	ldr	r6, [r3, #0x4]=0A=
	sub	r6, r6, r4=0A=
	cmp	r6, #0xc0=0A=
	ble	1b=0A=
	mov	pc, lr=0A=
#endif=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
undefined_instruction:=0A=
	b	undefined_instruction=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
software_interrupt:=0A=
	b	software_interrupt=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
abort_prefetch:=0A=
	b	abort_prefetch=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
abort_data:=0A=
	b	abort_data=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
not_used:=0A=
	b	not_used=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
	=0A=
irq:=0A=
	b	irq=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
fiq:=0A=
	b	fiq=0A=

------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EE8B.199BCE40
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="suspend.S"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="suspend.S"

/*
 * SA1110 Assembler Power Management Routines
 *
 * Copyright (c) 2001 Cliff Brake 
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or=20
 * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License.
 *
 * History:
 *
 * 2001-12-06: Cliff Brake         Initial code
 *
 */

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

/*=20
 * cpu_sa1100_do_suspend()
 *=20
 * Causes sa11x0 to enter sleep state
 *=20
 */

	.text


	.global	sleep_param
	.global	sleep_param_p

sleep_param:	.word	0		@ virtual address of parameter array
sleep_param_p:	.word	0		@ physical address of parameter array


ENTRY(cpu_sa1100_do_suspend)
	@ save registers on stack
	stmfd	sp!, {r0, r1, r2, r3, r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9, r10, r11, r12, lr}

	@ load virtual address for sleep_param array
	ldr	r0, sleep_param

	@ save cpsr
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CPSR*4)]

	@ save register for all modes=20
	@ we are currently in SVC mode
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_R14*4)]
	mrs	r1, spsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_SPSR*4)]
=09
	@ usr mode
	mrs	r3, cpsr	@ save for later
	bic	r1, r3, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xDF
	msr	cpsr, r1
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_USER_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_USER_R14*4)]
=09
	@ abort mode
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	bic	r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD7
	msr	cpsr, r1
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_R14*4)]
	mrs	r1, spsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_SPSR*4)]

	@ undef mode
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	bic	r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xDB
	msr	cpsr, r1
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_R14*4)]
	mrs	r1, spsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_SPSR*4)]

	@ irq mode
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	bic	r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD2
	msr	cpsr, r1
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_R14*4)]
	mrs	r1, spsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_SPSR*4)]

	@ fiq mode
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	bic	r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD1
	msr	cpsr, r1
	str	r8, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R8*4)]
	str	r9, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R9*4)]
	str	r10, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R10*4)]
	str	r11, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R11*4)]
	str	r12, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R12*4)]
	str	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R13*4)]
	str	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_R14*4)]
	mrs	r1, spsr
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_SPSR*4)]

	@ go back to svc mode
	mrs	r1, cpsr
	bic	r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD3
	msr	cpsr, r1

	@ save coprocessor registers
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c1, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R1*4)]
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c2, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R2*4)]
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c3, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R3*4)]
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c5, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R5*4)]
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c6, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R6*4)]
	mrc 	p15, 0, r1, c13, c0, 0
	str	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R13*4)]

	@ clean data cache and invalidate WB
	bl	cpu_sa1100_cache_clean_invalidate_all

	@ disable clock switching
	mcr	p15, 0, r1, c15, c2, 2
=09
	@ save address of sleep_param in r4
	mov	r0, r4

        @ Adjust memory timing before lowering CPU clock
	@ Clock speed ajdustment without changing memory timing makes
	@ CPU hang in some cases
        ldr     r0, =3DMDREFR
        ldr     r1, [r0]
        orr     r1, r1, #MDREFR_K1DB2
        str     r1, [r0]
=09
	@ delay 90us and set CPU PLL to lowest speed
	@ fixes resume problem on high speed SA1110
	mov	r0, #90
	bl	SYMBOL_NAME(udelay)
	ldr	r0, =3DPPCR
	mov	r1, #0
	str	r1, [r0]
	mov	r0, #90
	bl	SYMBOL_NAME(udelay)


/* setup up register contents for jump to page containing SA1110 SDRAM =
controller bug fix suspend code
 *
 * r0 points to MSC0 register
 * r1 points to MSC1 register
 * r2 points to MSC2 register
 * r3 is MSC0 value
 * r4 is MSC1 value
 * r5 is MSC2 value
 * r6 points to MDREFR register
 * r7 is first MDREFR value
 * r8 is second MDREFR value
 * r9 is pointer to MDCNFG register
 * r10 is MDCNFG value
 * r11 is third MDREFR value
 * r12 is pointer to PMCR register
 * r13 is PMCR value (1)
 *
 */

	ldr	r0, =3DMSC0
	ldr	r1, =3DMSC1
	ldr	r2, =3DMSC2

        ldr     r3, [r0]
        bic     r3, r3, #FMsk(MSC_RT)
        bic     r3, r3, #FMsk(MSC_RT)<<16

        ldr     r4, [r1]
        bic     r4, r4, #FMsk(MSC_RT)
        bic     r4, r4, #FMsk(MSC_RT)<<16

        ldr     r5, [r2]
        bic     r5, r5, #FMsk(MSC_RT)
        bic     r5, r5, #FMsk(MSC_RT)<<16

        ldr     r6, =3DMDREFR

        ldr     r7, [r6]
        bic     r7, r7, #0x0000FF00
        bic     r7, r7, #0x000000F0
        orr     r8, r7, #MDREFR_SLFRSH

        ldr     r9, =3DMDCNFG
        ldr     r10, [r9]
        bic     r10, r10, #(MDCNFG_DE0+MDCNFG_DE1)
        bic     r10, r10, #(MDCNFG_DE2+MDCNFG_DE3) =20

        bic     r11, r8, #MDREFR_SLFRSH
        bic     r11, r11, #MDREFR_E1PIN

        ldr     r12, =3DPMCR

        mov     r13, #PMCR_SF

	b	sa1110_sdram_controller_fix

	.align 5
sa1110_sdram_controller_fix:

	@ Step 1 clear RT field of all MSCx registers
	str 	r3, [r0]
	str	r4, [r1]
	str	r5, [r2]

	@ Step 2 clear DRI field in MDREFR
	str	r7, [r6]

	@ Step 3 set SLFRSH bit in MDREFR
	str	r8, [r6]

	@ Step 4 clear DE bis in MDCNFG
	str	r10, [r9]

	@ Step 5 clear DRAM refresh control register
	str	r11, [r6]

	@ Wow, now the hardware suspend request pins can be used, that makes =
them functional for=20
	@ about 7 ns out of the	entire time that the CPU is running!

	@ Step 6 set force sleep bit in PMCR

	str	r13, [r12]
=09
20:
	b	20b			@ loop waiting for sleep

/*
 * cpu_sa1100_resume()
 *
 * entry point from bootloader into kernel during resume
 *=20
 */

	.align 5
ENTRY(cpu_sa1100_resume)

	@ load physical address of sleep_param into r0
	adr	r0, sleep_param_p
	ldr	r0, [r0]

	@ restore cp15_r3, domain id
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R3*4)]
	mcr 	p15, 0, r1, c3, c0 ,0

	@ restore cp15_r2, translation table base address
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R2*4)]
	mcr 	p15, 0, r1, c2, c0 ,0

	mov	r1, #0
	mcr	p15, 0, r1, c8, c7, 0   	@ flush I+D TLBs
	mcr	p15, 0, r1, c7, c7, 0		@ flush I&D cache=20
=09
	@ get saved cp15 r1 (control register)
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R1*4)]

	@ get address to jump to after turning on MMU
	ldr	r2, =3Dresume_after_mmu=20

	cmp	r2, #0			=09

	b	resume_turn_on_mmu

	.align 5
resume_turn_on_mmu:

	@ turn on mmu
	mcr 	p15, 0, r1, c1, c0 ,0

	@ jump to resume_after_mmu=09
	mov	pc, r2
	nop
	nop

	.align 5
resume_after_mmu:
=09
	@ load virtual address for sleep_param array
	ldr	r0, sleep_param

	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R13*4)]
	mcr	p15, 0, r1, c13, c0, 0

	@ Restore the rest of the CPU state
=09
	@ svc
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_R14*4)]
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_SVC_SPSR*4)]
	msr	spsr, r1=20

	@ usr
	mrs     r1, cpsr		=09
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F	=09
	orr	r1, r1, #0xDF
	msr     cpsr, r1=09
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_USER_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_USER_R14*4)]

	@ abort
	mrs     r1, cpsr
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD7
	msr     cpsr, r1=09
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_R14*4)]
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_ABORT_SPSR*4)]
	msr	spsr, r1

	@ undef
	mrs     r1, cpsr
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xDB
	msr     cpsr, r1
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_R14*4)]
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_UNDEF_SPSR*4)]
	msr	spsr, r0

	@ irq
	mrs     r1, cpsr
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD2
	msr     cpsr, r1
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_R14*4)]
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_IRQ_SPSR*4)]
	msr	spsr, r1

	@ fiq
	mrs     r1, cpsr
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD1
	msr     cpsr, r1
	ldr	r8, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R8*4)]
	ldr	r9, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R9*4)]
	ldr	r10, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R10*4)]
	ldr	r11, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R11*4)]
	ldr	r12, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R12*4)]
	ldr	r13, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R13*4)]
	ldr	r14, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_R14*4)]
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_FIQ_SPSR*4)]
	msr	spsr, r1

	@ switch to svc mode
	mrs     r1, cpsr
	bic     r1, r1, #0x1F
	orr	r1, r1, #0xD3
	msr     cpsr, r1

	@ Restore rest of Coprocessor state
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R5*4)]
	mcr 	p15, 0, r1, c5, c0 ,0
=09
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CP15_R6*4)]
	mcr 	p15, 0, r1, c6, c0 ,0

	@ restore cpsr
	ldr	r1, [r0, #(SLEEP_PARAM_CPSR*4)]
	msr	cpsr, r1

	@ return to caller
	ldmfd	sp!, {r0, r1, r2, r3, r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9, r10, r11, r12, pc}



------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EE8B.199BCE40--

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 07:55:28 2001
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:04:23 -0700
From: "Wallace E. Owen" 
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Subject: Purpose of J5?
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What's the purpose of J5?  I thought this must be an FAQ, but a search of the
archive turned up no references to J5.  I see it connecting across what I think
are the current sense resistors of the power supply, and there's an additional
3 pins dedicated to ground, but what's it for?


  // Wally
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 09:29:13 2001
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:24:03 +0200
To: 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: RE: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
Cc: "Abraham vd Merwe" ,
        "Lart Mailinglist" 
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At 05:53 +0300 06-06-2001, Gad Hayisraeli wrote:
>  > Because there is no chip driver for the LART / 28Fxxx fast boot bloc flash
>>  chips yet.
>>
>>  See, the MTD drivers basically consists of 2 layers. A user layer which
>>  implements things like jffs (read filesystems) and flash
>>  translation layers
>>  and then there's a lowlevel chip driver which deals with each individual
>>  flash chip or series of chips.
>>
>>  This chip driver is missing so you won't be able to use jffs on a platform
>>  using these flash chips.
>>
>	so, on the assabet i cannot use jffs ? (it uses the 28fxxxx 
>chips as well)

No it doesn't. The LART uses fast boot block, assabet uses StrataFlash.

JDB.
-- 
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be slow, but he'll eventually get them.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 09:42:25 2001
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At 23:04 -0700 05-06-2001, Wallace E. Owen wrote:
>What's the purpose of J5?

You are talking about the rev3 LART, right ? We use J5 as a 
measurement and control point for our power consumption and voltage 
scaling research.

JDB.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 10:16:21 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: ramdisks images wanted - please publish
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Hi Gad!

> 	so, on the assabet i cannot use jffs ? (it uses the 28fxxxx chips as wel=
l)
> 	nico , please also answer this, cause you've recommended me before to use
> 	jffs on the assabet.
> 	can you tell me which arm platform / flash chips are supported by the mtd
> 	flash driver + 	jffs ?

No you can't. I think Strataflash is supported, some AMD chips, etc. Just go
look at the MTD source (chips directory).

I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to add
support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much add that to
the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for Assabet as
well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assabet boar=
d.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

My own business always bores me to death; I prefer other people's.
		-- Oscar Wilde

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
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From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: MTD
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On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:42:59AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I see in the sa1100 maps driver of MTD (sa1100-flash.c) there is a definition
> 
> #define WINDOW_ADDR 0xe8000000
> 
> which is used as a base address for all read/write's.
> 
> I've searched through the StronArm 1100 and 1110 data sheets and I can find no
> reference of such an address.
> 
> Could somebody please explain this to me?

It's a virtual address.


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
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Hi Erik!

> > I see in the sa1100 maps driver of MTD (sa1100-flash.c) there is a defi=
nition
> >=20
> > #define WINDOW_ADDR 0xe8000000
> >=20
> > which is used as a base address for all read/write's.
> >=20
> > I've searched through the StronArm 1100 and 1110 data sheets and I can =
find no
> > reference of such an address.
> >=20
> > Could somebody please explain this to me?
>=20
> It's a virtual address.

Yes, but why is the flash memory mapped to that address?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.
		-- Lord Thomas Rober Dewar

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 14:31:06 2001
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On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:22:21PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > > Could somebody please explain this to me?
> > 
> > It's a virtual address.
> 
> Yes, but why is the flash memory mapped to that address?

Because that's how the memory map is defined. See lart.c in 
arch/arm/mach-sa1100/ (or any other architecture specific file
over there, like bitsy.c).


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 18:36:06 2001
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How much current can be safely drawn by a daughtercard from the LART's 3.3 
volt supply?

With R4 = 0.033 ohm, the LTC1266 should shutdown at about 3 amps.  Can this 
full ammount safely be drawn?  If the LART takes 1w, would this leave 
around 2w for peripherials?

Eric

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 19:44:33 2001
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Gad Hayisraeli wrote:

> > Because there is no chip driver for the LART / 28Fxxx fast boot bloc flash
> > chips yet.
> >
> > See, the MTD drivers basically consists of 2 layers. A user layer which
> > implements things like jffs (read filesystems) and flash
> > translation layers
> > and then there's a lowlevel chip driver which deals with each individual
> > flash chip or series of chips.
> >
> > This chip driver is missing so you won't be able to use jffs on a platform
> > using these flash chips.
> >
> 	so, on the assabet i cannot use jffs ? (it uses the 28fxxxx chips as well)
> 	nico , please also answer this, cause you've recommended me before to use
> 	jffs on the assabet.
> 	can you tell me which arm platform / flash chips are supported by the mtd
> 	flash driver + 	jffs ?

The Assabet flash is already supported.


Nicolas

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On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to add
> support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much add that to
> the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for Assabet as
> well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assabet board.

Why would you do that?


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun  6 20:01:39 2001
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At 11:22 -0500 06-06-2001, Eric N. Johnson (ACD) wrote:
>How much current can be safely drawn by a daughtercard from the 
>LART's 3.3 volt supply?
>
>With R4 = 0.033 ohm, the LTC1266 should shutdown at about 3 amps.

'Shutdown' is not quite the word, it is more like the regulator keeps 
the peak inductor current in continuous-mode operation at or below 3A 
[1].

>   Can this full ammount safely be drawn?

In the engineering spirit of derating I would stay a bit below 3A 
total; I see no reason why 2A wouldn't work.

>   If the LART takes 1w, would this leave around 2w for peripherials?

The 1W the LART takes goes mostly to the core (which has a seperate 
supply); expect 100mA typical 250mA max on the 3v3. If I were doing 
an add-on design I would see no reason why it couldn't draw up to 2A 
(or 6.6W) from the 3v3 rail. Just make sure you use proper decoupling 
!

JDB.

[1] If you are interested to see what *really* happens in switch mode 
supplies, try SwitcherCAD from Linear Technology 
(http://www.linear.com/software/). I don't believe it has a model for 
the '1266, but there are some other examples of synchronous step-down 
converters that give a good idea of what is going on]
-- 
Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers.
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As the wake-up from sleeping is considered as one kind of resets in
StrongARM,
I think you should adjust memory timing & revive SDRAM just as in the case
of the power-on reset.


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: ; 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:17 PM
Subject: How to wake up assabet?


> I use blob as my boot loader.
> When I do " cat /proc/sys/pm/suspend" ,  assabet sleeping.
> I use GPIO_0/SW1 as wake-up events.
> when I push down sw1, But never wake up .
>
> This is the comment of  (in blob):
> /* check if this is a wake-up from sleep */
> /* no, continue booting */
>  /* yes, a wake-up. get the value from the PSPR and jump to it */
>
> I attached  (in blob), and  (in kernel).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dorothy Wu
>

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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Hi Nicolas!

> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
>=20
> > I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to add
> > support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much add th=
at to
> > the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for Assabe=
t as
> > well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assabet =
board.
>=20
> Why would you do that?

Do what?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Next, upon a stool, we've a sight to make you drool.
Seven virgins and a mule, keep it cool, keep it cool.
		-- ELP, "Karn Evil 9" (1st Impression, Part 2)

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
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Sorry to off-topic.
Who is working on new version of blob??
Because i have a modified blob that support sleep/resume and flash
programming..etc! Just want to send my patch before going to service in
army :)


Chester

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi Erik!
> 
> > > I see in the sa1100 maps driver of MTD (sa1100-flash.c) there is a definition
> > > 
> > > #define WINDOW_ADDR 0xe8000000
> > > 
> > > which is used as a base address for all read/write's.
> > > 
> > > I've searched through the StronArm 1100 and 1110 data sheets and I can find no
> > > reference of such an address.
> > > 
> > > Could somebody please explain this to me?
> > 
> > It's a virtual address.
> 
> Yes, but why is the flash memory mapped to that address?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards
>  Abraham
> 
> There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.
> 		-- Lord Thomas Rober Dewar
> 
> __________________________________________________________
>  Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.
> 
>  Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems
> 
>   Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
>    Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
>    Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
>  Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
>   Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa
> 
> 

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun  7 09:57:12 2001
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From: Erik Mouw 
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On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:14:46PM +0800, chester@linux.org.tw wrote:
> Sorry to off-topic.
> Who is working on new version of blob??

Me if I get time for it (it's a bit low on my to do list). I've send my
preliminary blob-2.0 code to Wookey and he currently has a working
blob-2.0.2 that runs from RAM and is able to program the flash.

> Because i have a modified blob that support sleep/resume and flash
> programming..etc! Just want to send my patch before going to service in
> army :)

Cool. Could you send me a patch (and I guess that Wookey would also
like to have it)? I'm going to work on blob when our new SA11x0 design
is ready, so I'll integrate it at that time.


Erik

PS: Yes Nicolas, I know about RedBoot. But when I want to run Linux on
    a new device I'd rather start with a familiar boot loader.

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi Nicolas!
>
> > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> >
> > > I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to add
> > > support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much add that to
> > > the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for Assabet as
> > > well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assabet board.
> >
> > Why would you do that?
>
> Do what?

Adapt the driver for Assabet.  Assabet is already perfectly well supported
by the generic cfi-cmdset-001 driver.


Nicolas

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Hi Nicolas!

> > > > I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to =
add
> > > > support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much ad=
d that to
> > > > the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for As=
sabet as
> > > > well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assa=
bet board.
> > >
> > > Why would you do that?
> >
> > Do what?
>=20
> Adapt the driver for Assabet.  Assabet is already perfectly well supported
> by the generic cfi-cmdset-001 driver.

Yes, I didn't know it used Strataflash. Someone mentioned that Assabet also
used 28Fxxxx flash.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

"Every morning, I get up and look through the 'Forbes' list of the
richest people in America.  If I'm not there, I go to work"
		-- Robert Orben

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun  7 16:47:30 2001
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi Nicolas!
>
> > > > > I'm almost finished with a flash driver for LART tho (just need to add
> > > > > support for word/byte read/write/erase's) so you can pretty much add that to
> > > > > the list as well. If I get a chance I might adapt the driver for Assabet as
> > > > > well, but that's pretty low priority now since I don't have an Assabet board.
> > > >
> > > > Why would you do that?
> > >
> > > Do what?
> >
> > Adapt the driver for Assabet.  Assabet is already perfectly well supported
> > by the generic cfi-cmdset-001 driver.
>
> Yes, I didn't know it used Strataflash. Someone mentioned that Assabet also
> used 28Fxxxx flash.

Yes, and they actually work with the same driver.


Nicolas

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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: suggestion
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Hi!

I've just finished testing my LART flash module (: If all goes well, I'll
release it tomorrow sometime (I just have to sort out some problem with the
partitioning and write a small upload utility so that people can upload
blob/kernel/initrd to the corresponding partitions without worrying about
erasing etc).

There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash is divided
into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel: 0x00020000-0x00100000,
ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash in
Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with cool things
like jffs2, etc.

So here's a suggestion. Let's allocate 0x00100000-0x00300000 for the initial
ramdisk - that's 2MB which imho is more than enough. In fact, it's too much
(; ) and leave that last 1MB for playing around with file systems and other
cool things.

Of course, this means blob has to change which isn't a big deal if we only
knew which version to use *hint hint*

1.0.8pre2 doesn't work (at least not on our LART board), so if everyone
agrees about the size change, I'll patch blob 1.0.7b and then you guys
(Wookie, Eric) should just update the latest blob (whatever that is).

So what's the verdict?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Did an Italian CRANE OPERATOR just experience uninhibited sensations in
a MALIBU HOT TUB?

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash is divided
> into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel: 0x00020000-0x00100000,
> ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash in
> Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with cool things
> like jffs2, etc.
>
> So here's a suggestion. Let's allocate 0x00100000-0x00300000 for the initial
> ramdisk - that's 2MB which imho is more than enough. In fact, it's too much
> (; ) and leave that last 1MB for playing around with file systems and other
> cool things.

My suggestion would be: don't change anything.  Decide from the start if you
want a ramdisk or JFFS2, or even cramfs in that 3MB.  You don't need more
than one type of filesystem at a time otherwise the lack of space will make
it unpractical.  Ramdisks are waste of ressources when you can boot on a
filesystem directly on flash.

Once you have JFFS2 working you won't want to go back bothering with
ramdisks anyway.


Nicolas

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Subject: [PATCH] Booting from .... modules
From: Russ Dill 
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This adds the ability for blob to load the kernel from multiple sources
(ie cramfs, jffs, straight from flash etc). Currently included are
modules for cramfs and straight from flash. Currently, the interface is:

struct kernel_loader {
	
	/* Return true if there is a kernel contained at src */
	int (* check_magic)(u32 *src);
	
	/* load the kernel from src to dst, return the number of bytes
	 * copied if successful, zero if not */
	u32 (* load_kernel)(u32 *dst, u32 *src);

	/* A brief description of the module */
	char *name;
};

blob will cycle through the avaible loaders until it finds one that the
magic returns true, it will then call that modules load_kernel function.
If blob doesn't find any valid magic numbers, it will just load the
kernel raw.

Current issues (release early, release often)

should the src location be passed? or should each module contain that
information (ie, two kernels are stored in flash, load the one with the
correct crc)

what about initrd, and varying partitions. If we are booting from jffs2,
we probably don't want to load the initrd.

the cramfs module doesn't follow symlinks when looking for /linux

I don't completely understand the configure.in/Makefile.am, so the way
extra source is linked in is a bit messy, if someone could fix this,
it'd be great.

future ideas:

jffs2 support: A mini deflate implementation is already in here, so
adding jffs2 support shouldn't be too difficult

specialty modules: maybe decide the return of check_magic based on a
gpio, or possibly write a load_kernel that loads from the serial port,
harddrive, or even network. All of course being optionally linked into
blob.

the diff is against 1.0.8-pre2


--=-TUEsrVuGXSjf0acRxJZq
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=blob-load_kernel.diff
Content-ID: 991938420.27454.2.camel@timmy
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Index: blob/acconfig.h
diff -u blob/acconfig.h:1.1.1.1 blob/acconfig.h:1.1.1.1.4.1
--- blob/acconfig.h:1.1.1.1	Wed Jun  6 15:51:41 2001
+++ blob/acconfig.h	Wed Jun  6 16:33:28 2001
@@ -83,6 +83,12 @@
 /* Define if your system uses serial port 3 */
 #undef USE_SERIAL3
 
+/* Define if you want the cramfs kernel loader */
+#undef CRAMFS_LOAD
+
+/* Define if you want the zImage kernel loader */
+#undef ZIMAGE_LOAD
+
 @BOTTOM@
 
 #endif
Index: blob/configure.in
diff -u blob/configure.in:1.1.1.1 blob/configure.in:1.1.1.1.4.2
--- blob/configure.in:1.1.1.1	Wed Jun  6 15:51:41 2001
+++ blob/configure.in	Wed Jun  6 17:59:05 2001
@@ -129,6 +129,30 @@
 
 
 
+dnl Check for kernel loading options
+AC_ARG_ENABLE(cramfs,
+[  --enable-cramfs     Allow the kernel to be loaded from cramfs],
+[cramfs_flag=$enable_cramfs],
+[cramfs_flag=no])
+
+if test "x$cramfs_flag" = "xyes" ; then
+  AC_DEFINE(CRAMFS_LOAD)
+fi
+AM_CONDITIONAL(CRAMFS_LOAD, test x$cramfs_flag = xyes)
+
+AC_ARG_ENABLE(zImage,
+[  --enable-zImage     Allow a zImage to be load straight frem flash (defualt)],
+[zImage_flag=$enable_zImage],
+[zImage_flag=yes])
+
+if test "x$zImage_flag" = "xyes" ; then
+  AC_DEFINE(ZIMAGE_LOAD)
+fi
+AM_CONDITIONAL(ZIMAGE_LOAD, test x$zImage_flag = xyes)
+
+
+
+
 dnl Checks for typedefs, structures, and compiler characteristics.
 AC_C_INLINE
 
@@ -210,4 +234,6 @@
 echo "Objcopy tool                ${OBJCOPY}"
 echo "Objcopy flags               ${OCFLAGS}"
 echo "Run-time debug information  ${blob_debug_flag}"
+echo "Load from cramfs            ${cramfs_flag}"
+echo "Load zImage from flash      ${zImage_flag}"
 echo ""
Index: blob/include/load_kernel.h
diff -u /dev/null blob/include/load_kernel.h:1.1.2.2
--- /dev/null	Thu Jun  7 11:12:30 2001
+++ blob/include/load_kernel.h	Wed Jun  6 19:10:36 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,38 @@
+/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ * Filename:      load_kernel.h
+ * Version:       $Id$
+ * Copyright:     Copyright (C) 2001, Russ Dill
+ * Author:        Russ Dill 
+ * Description:   header for load kernel modules
+ *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
+/*
+ *
+ * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+ * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+ * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
+ * (at your option) any later version.
+ *
+ * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+ * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+ * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+ * GNU General Public License for more details.
+ *
+ * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+ * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
+ * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
+ *
+ */
+#include "types.h"
+
+struct kernel_loader {
+	
+	/* Return true if there is a kernel contained at src */
+	int (* check_magic)(u32 *src);
+	
+	/* load the kernel from src to dst, return the number of bytes
+	 * copied if successful, zero if not */
+	u32 (* load_kernel)(u32 *dst, u32 *src);
+
+	/* A brief description of the module */
+	char *name;
+};
Index: blob/include/mini_inflate.h
diff -u /dev/null blob/include/mini_inflate.h:1.1.2.4
--- /dev/null	Thu Jun  7 11:12:30 2001
+++ blob/include/mini_inflate.h	Thu Jun  7 11:03:10 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ * Filename:      mini_inflate.h
+ * Version:       $Id$
+ * Copyright:     Copyright (C) 2001, Russ Dill
+ * Author:        Russ Dill 
+ * Description:   Mini deflate implementation
+ *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
+/*
+ *
+ * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+ * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+ * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
+ * (at your option) any later version.
+ *
+ * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+ * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+ * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+ * GNU General Public License for more details.
+ *
+ * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+ * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
+ * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
+ *
+ */
+ 
+typedef __SIZE_TYPE__ size;
+
+#define NO_ERROR 0
+#define COMP_UNKNOWN 1	 /* The specififed bytype is invalid */
+#define CODE_NOT_FOUND 2 /* a huffman code in the stream could not be decoded */
+#define TOO_MANY_BITS 3	 /* pull_bits was passed an argument that is too 
+			  * large */ 
+
+/* This struct represents an entire huffman code set. It has various lookup
+ * tables to speed decoding */
+struct huffman_set {
+	int bits;	 /* maximum bit length */
+	int num_symbols; /* Number of symbols this code can represent */
+	int *lengths;	 /* The bit length of symbols */
+	int *symbols;	 /* All of the symbols, sorted by the huffman code */
+	int *count;	 /* the number of codes of this bit length */
+	int *first;	 /* the first code of this bit length */
+	int *pos;	 /* the symbol that first represents (in the symbols
+			  * array) */
+};
+
+struct bitstream {
+	unsigned char *data; /* increments as we move from byte to byte */
+	unsigned char bit;   /* 0 to 7 */
+	void *(*memcpy)(void *, void *, size);
+	unsigned long decoded; /* The number of bytes decoded */
+	int error;
+
+	int  distance_count[16];
+	int  distance_first[16];
+	int  distance_pos[16];
+	int  distance_lengths[32];
+	int  distance_symbols[32];
+
+	int  code_count[8];
+	int  code_first[8];
+	int  code_pos[8];
+	int  code_lengths[19];
+	int  code_symbols[19];
+	
+	int  length_count[16];
+	int  length_first[16];
+	int  length_pos[16];
+	int  length_lengths[288];
+	int  length_symbols[288];
+	
+	struct huffman_set codes;
+	struct huffman_set lengths;
+	struct huffman_set distance;
+};
+	
+#define NO_COMP 0
+#define FIXED_COMP 1
+#define DYNAMIC_COMP 2
+
+long decompress_block(unsigned char *dest, unsigned char *source,
+		      void *(*inflate_memcpy)(void *dest, void *src, size n));
Index: blob/src/Makefile.am
diff -u blob/src/Makefile.am:1.1.1.1 blob/src/Makefile.am:1.1.1.1.4.2
--- blob/src/Makefile.am:1.1.1.1	Wed Jun  6 15:51:41 2001
+++ blob/src/Makefile.am	Wed Jun  6 17:59:05 2001
@@ -16,6 +16,14 @@
 	blob
 
 
+if CRAMFS_LOAD 
+CRAMFSOBJS = cramfs.c mini_inflate.c
+endif
+
+if ZIMAGE_LOAD 
+ZIMAGEOBJS = zImage.c
+endif
+
 # WARNING: start.S *must* be the first file, otherwise the target will
 # be linked in the wrong order!
 blob_elf32_SOURCES	= \
@@ -27,7 +35,7 @@
 	serial.c \
 	time.c \
 	util.c \
-	uucodec.c
+	uucodec.c $(CRAMFSOBJS) $(ZIMAGEOBJS)
 
 
 blob_SOURCES		=
Index: blob/src/cramfs.c
diff -u /dev/null blob/src/cramfs.c:1.1.2.3
--- /dev/null	Thu Jun  7 11:12:30 2001
+++ blob/src/cramfs.c	Wed Jun  6 19:10:36 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,141 @@
+/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ * Filename:      cramfs.c
+ * Version:       $Id$
+ * Copyright:     Copyright (C) 2001, Russ Dill
+ * Author:        Russ Dill 
+ * Description:   Module to load kernel from a cramfs
+ *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
+/*
+ *
+ * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+ * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+ * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
+ * (at your option) any later version.
+ *
+ * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+ * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+ * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+ * GNU General Public License for more details.
+ *
+ * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+ * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
+ * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
+ *
+ */
+ 
+#include "load_kernel.h"
+#include "mini_inflate.h"
+#include "util.h"
+#include "serial.h"
+
+#define CRAMFS_MAGIC		0x28cd3d45	/* some random number */
+#define CRAMFS_SIGNATURE	"Compressed ROMFS"
+
+struct cramfs_inode { /* sizeof == 12*/
+	u32 mode:16, uid:16;
+	/* SIZE for device files is i_rdev */
+	u32 size:24, gid:8;
+	/* NAMELEN is the length of the file name, divided by 4 and
+           rounded up.  (cramfs doesn't support hard links.) */
+	/* OFFSET: For symlinks and non-empty regular files, this
+	   contains the offset (divided by 4) of the file data in
+	   compressed form (starting with an array of block pointers;
+	   see README).  For non-empty directories it is the offset
+	   (divided by 4) of the inode of the first file in that
+	   directory.  For anything else, offset is zero. */
+	u32 namelen:6, offset:26;
+};
+
+/*
+ * Superblock information at the beginning of the FS.
+ */
+struct cramfs_super {		/* sizeof == 62 == 0x40 + 12 */
+	u32 magic;		/* 0x28cd3d45 - random number */
+	u32 size;		/* Not used.  mkcramfs currently
+                                   writes a constant 1<<16 here. */
+	u32 flags;		/* 0 */
+	u32 future;		/* 0 */
+	u8 signature[16];	/* "Compressed ROMFS" */
+	u8 fsid[16];		/* random number */
+	u8 name[16];		/* user-defined name */
+	struct cramfs_inode root;	/* Root inode data */
+};
+
+static int cramfs_check_magic(unsigned long *location)
+{		
+	return *(location) == CRAMFS_MAGIC;
+}
+
+static long cramfs_uncompress_page(char *dest, char *src, u32 srclen)
+{
+	long size;
+	src++; /* *src == 0x78 method */
+	src++; /* *src == 0x9C flags (!PRESET_DICT) */
+
+	size = decompress_block(dest, src, MyMemCpyChar);	
+	return size;
+}
+
+
+static long cramfs_load_file(u32 *dest, u32 *src, struct cramfs_inode *inode)
+{
+
+	long int curr_block;
+	unsigned long *block_ptrs;
+	long size, total_size = 0;
+	int i;
+
+	SerialOutputByte('.');
+	block_ptrs = src + inode->offset;
+	curr_block = (inode->offset + ((inode->size + 4095) >> 12)) << 2;
+	for (i = 0; i < ((inode->size + 4095) >> 12); i++) {
+		size = cramfs_uncompress_page((char *) dest, 
+					      curr_block + ((char *) src), 
+					      block_ptrs[i] - curr_block);
+		if (size < 0) return size;
+		((char *) dest) += size;
+		/* Print a '.' every 0x40000 bytes */
+		if (((total_size + size) & ~0x3ffff) - (total_size & ~0x3ffff))
+			SerialOutputByte('.');
+		total_size += size;
+		curr_block = block_ptrs[i];
+	}
+	return total_size;
+}
+
+static u32 cramfs_load_kernel(u32 *dest, u32 *src)
+{
+	struct cramfs_super *super;
+	struct cramfs_inode *inode;
+	unsigned long next_inode;
+	char *name;
+	long size;
+	
+	super = (struct cramfs_super *) src;
+	next_inode = super->root.offset << 2;
+	
+	while (next_inode < (super->root.offset << 2) + super->root.size) {
+		inode = (struct cramfs_inode *) (next_inode + ((char *) src));
+		next_inode += (inode->namelen << 2) + 
+			       sizeof(struct cramfs_inode);
+		
+		if (!(inode->mode & 0x8000)) continue; /* Is it a file? */
+
+		/* does it have 5 to 8 characters? */
+		if (!inode->namelen == 2) continue;
+		name = (char *) (inode + 1);
+		if (!MyStrNCmp("linux\0\0", name, 8)) {
+			size = cramfs_load_file(dest, src, inode);
+			break;
+		}
+	}
+	return size <= 0 ? 0 : size;
+}
+
+struct kernel_loader cramfs_load = {
+	check_magic: cramfs_check_magic,
+	load_kernel: cramfs_load_kernel,
+	name:	     "cramfs"
+};
+	
+	
\ No newline at end of file
Index: blob/src/main.c
diff -u blob/src/main.c:1.1.1.1 blob/src/main.c:1.1.1.1.4.5
--- blob/src/main.c:1.1.1.1	Wed Jun  6 15:51:41 2001
+++ blob/src/main.c	Wed Jun  6 19:11:54 2001
@@ -45,10 +45,10 @@
 #include "main.h"
 #include "util.h"
 #include "uucodec.h"
+#include "load_kernel.h"
 
 
 
-
 typedef enum {
 	fromFlash = 0,
 	fromDownload = 1
@@ -458,9 +458,59 @@
 	SerialOutputString("c");
 }
 
+#ifdef CRAMFS_LOAD
+	extern struct kernel_loader cramfs_load;
+#endif
+#ifdef ZIMAGE_LOAD
+	extern struct kernel_loader zImage_load;
+#endif
+
+
+struct kernel_loader *loader[] = {
+#ifdef CRAMFS_LOAD
+	&cramfs_load,
+#endif
+#ifdef ZIMAGE_LOAD
+	&zImage_load,
+#endif
+	NULL
+};
+
+
 
 
+void load_kernel(blobStatus *status)
+{
+	int i;
+	unsigned long size;
+	
+	for (i = 0; loader[i] && 
+		   !loader[i]->check_magic((u32 *) KERNEL_START); i++);
 
+	if (!loader[i]) {
+		SerialOutputString("unable to find kernel, loading raw data "
+				   "and hoping for the best!\rloading");
+		size = KERNEL_LEN;
+		MyMemCpy((u32 *)KERNEL_RAM_BASE, (u32 *)KERNEL_START, size >> 2);
+		
+	} else {
+		SerialOutputString("loading kernel from ");
+		SerialOutputString(loader[i]->name);
+		if ((size = loader[i]->load_kernel((u32 *)KERNEL_RAM_BASE, 
+						   (u32 *)KERNEL_START)) == 0) {
+			SerialOutputString("error loading kernel\r");
+			return;
+		}
+	}
+	SerialOutputString("loaded 0x");
+	SerialOutputHex(size);
+	SerialOutputString(" bytes\r");
+	status->kernelSize = size;
+	status->kernelType = fromFlash;
+}
+
+
+
 void Reload(char *commandline, blobStatus *status)
 {
 	u32 *src = 0;
@@ -468,12 +518,7 @@
 	int numWords;
 
 	if(MyStrNCmp(commandline, "kernel", 6) == 0) {
-		src = (u32 *)KERNEL_RAM_BASE;
-		dst = (u32 *)KERNEL_START;
-		numWords = KERNEL_LEN / 4;
-		status->kernelSize = 0;
-		status->kernelType = fromFlash;
-		SerialOutputString("Loading kernel from flash ");
+		load_kernel(status);
 	} else if(MyStrNCmp(commandline, "ramdisk", 7) == 0) {
 		src = (u32 *)RAMDISK_RAM_BASE;
 		dst = (u32 *)INITRD_START;
@@ -481,15 +526,14 @@
 		status->ramdiskSize = 0;
 		status->ramdiskType = fromFlash;
 		SerialOutputString("Loading ramdisk from flash ");
+		MyMemCpy(src, dst, numWords);
+		SerialOutputString(" done\r");
 	} else {
 		SerialOutputString("*** Don't know how to reload \"");
 		SerialOutputString(commandline);
 		SerialOutputString("\"\r");
 		return;
 	}
-
-	MyMemCpy(src, dst, numWords);
-	SerialOutputString(" done\r");
 }
 
 
Index: blob/src/mini_inflate.c
diff -u /dev/null blob/src/mini_inflate.c:1.1.2.6
--- /dev/null	Thu Jun  7 11:12:30 2001
+++ blob/src/mini_inflate.c	Thu Jun  7 11:05:25 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,375 @@
+/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ * Filename:      mini_inflate.c
+ * Version:       $Id$
+ * Copyright:     Copyright (C) 2001, Russ Dill
+ * Author:        Russ Dill 
+ * Description:   Mini inflate implementation (RFC 1951)
+ *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
+/*
+ *
+ * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+ * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+ * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
+ * (at your option) any later version.
+ *
+ * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+ * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+ * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+ * GNU General Public License for more details.
+ *
+ * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+ * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
+ * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
+ *
+ */
+#include "mini_inflate.h"
+
+/* The order that the code lengths in section 3.2.7 are in */
+static unsigned char huffman_order[] = {16, 17, 18,  0,  8,  7,  9,  6, 10,  5,
+					11,  4, 12,  3, 13,  2, 14,  1, 15};
+	
+inline void cramfs_memset(int *s, const int c, size n)
+{
+	for (;n > 0; n--) s[n] = c;
+}
+
+/* associate a stream with a block of data and reset the stream */
+static void init_stream(struct bitstream *stream, unsigned char *data,
+			void *(*inflate_memcpy)(void *, void *, size))
+{
+	stream->error = NO_ERROR;
+	stream->memcpy = inflate_memcpy;
+	stream->decoded = 0;
+	stream->data = data;
+	stream->bit = 0;	/* The first bit of the stream is the lsb of the
+				 * first byte */
+
+	/* really sorry about all this initialization, think of a better way,
+	 * let me know and it will get cleaned up */
+	stream->codes.bits = 8;
+	stream->codes.num_symbols = 19;
+	stream->codes.lengths = stream->code_lengths;
+	stream->codes.symbols = stream->code_symbols;
+	stream->codes.count = stream->code_count;
+	stream->codes.first = stream->code_first;
+	stream->codes.pos = stream->code_pos;
+
+	stream->lengths.bits = 16;
+	stream->lengths.num_symbols = 288;
+	stream->lengths.lengths = stream->length_lengths;
+	stream->lengths.symbols = stream->length_symbols;
+	stream->lengths.count = stream->length_count;
+	stream->lengths.first = stream->length_first;
+	stream->lengths.pos = stream->length_pos;
+
+	stream->distance.bits = 16;
+	stream->distance.num_symbols = 32;
+	stream->distance.lengths = stream->distance_lengths;
+	stream->distance.symbols = stream->distance_symbols;
+	stream->distance.count = stream->distance_count;
+	stream->distance.first = stream->distance_first;
+	stream->distance.pos = stream->distance_pos;	
+
+}
+
+/* pull 'bits' bits out of the stream. The last bit pulled it returned as the
+ * msb. (section 3.1.1)
+ */
+inline unsigned long pull_bits(struct bitstream *stream, 
+			       const unsigned int bits)
+{
+	unsigned long ret;
+	int i;
+	
+	ret = 0;
+	for (i = 0; i < bits; i++) {
+		ret += ((*(stream->data) >> stream->bit) & 1) << i;
+		
+		/* if, before incrementing, we are on bit 7, 
+		 * go to the lsb of the next byte */
+		if (stream->bit++ == 7) {
+			stream->bit = 0;
+			stream->data++;
+		}
+	}
+	return ret;
+}
+
+inline int pull_bit(struct bitstream *stream)
+{
+	int ret = ((*(stream->data) >> stream->bit) & 1);
+	if (stream->bit++ == 7) {
+		stream->bit = 0;
+		stream->data++;
+	}
+	return ret;
+}
+
+/* discard bits up to the next whole byte */
+static void discard_bits(struct bitstream *stream)
+{
+	if (stream->bit != 0) {
+		stream->bit = 0;
+		stream->data++;
+	}
+}
+
+/* No decompression, the data is all literals (section 3.2.4) */
+static void decompress_none(struct bitstream *stream, unsigned char *dest)
+{
+	unsigned int length;
+
+	discard_bits(stream);
+	length = *(stream->data++);
+	length += *(stream->data++) << 8;
+	pull_bits(stream, 16);	/* throw away the inverse of the size */
+	
+	stream->decoded += length;
+	stream->memcpy(dest, stream->data, length);
+}
+
+/* Read in a symbol from the stream (section 3.2.2) */
+static int read_symbol(struct bitstream *stream, struct huffman_set *set)
+{
+	int bits = 0;
+	int code = 0;
+	while (!(set->count[bits] && code < set->first[bits] + 
+					     set->count[bits])) {
+		code = (code << 1) + pull_bit(stream);
+		if (++bits > set->bits) {
+			/* error decoding (corrupted data?) */
+			stream->error = CODE_NOT_FOUND;
+			return -1;
+		}
+	}
+	return set->symbols[set->pos[bits] + code - set->first[bits]];
+}	
+
+/* decompress a stream of data encoded with the passed length and distance
+ * huffman codes */
+static void decompress_huffman(struct bitstream *stream, unsigned char *dest)
+{
+	struct huffman_set *lengths = &(stream->lengths);
+	struct huffman_set *distance = &(stream->distance);
+	
+	int symbol, length, dist, i;
+	
+	do {
+		if ((symbol = read_symbol(stream, lengths)) < 0) return;
+		if (symbol < 256) {
+			*(dest++) = symbol; /* symbol is a literal */
+			stream->decoded++;
+		} else if (symbol > 256) {
+			/* Determine the length of the repitition 
+			 * (section 3.2.5) */
+			if (symbol < 265) length = symbol - 254;
+			else if (symbol == 285) length = 258;
+			else {
+				length = pull_bits(stream, (symbol - 261) >> 2);
+				length += (4 << ((symbol - 261) >> 2)) + 3;
+				length += ((symbol - 1) % 4) << 
+					  ((symbol - 261) >> 2);
+			}
+						
+			/* Determine how far back to go */
+			if ((symbol = read_symbol(stream, distance)) < 0) 
+				return;
+			if (symbol < 4) dist = symbol + 1;
+			else {
+				dist = pull_bits(stream, (symbol - 2) >> 1);
+				dist += (2 << ((symbol - 2) >> 1)) + 1;
+				dist += (symbol % 2) << ((symbol - 2) >> 1);
+			}
+			stream->decoded += length;
+			for (i = 0; i < length; i++) *(dest++) = dest[-dist];
+		}
+	} while (symbol != 256); /* 256 is the end of the data block */
+}
+	
+/* Fill the lookup tables (section 3.2.2) */
+static void fill_code_tables(struct huffman_set *set)
+{
+	int code = 0, i, length;
+	
+	/* fill in the first code of each bit length, and the pos pointer */
+	set->pos[0] = 0;
+	for (i = 1; i < set->bits; i++) {
+		code = (code + set->count[i - 1]) << 1;
+		set->first[i] = code;
+		set->pos[i] = set->pos[i - 1] + set->count[i - 1];
+	}
+	
+	/* Fill in the table of symbols in order of their huffman code */
+	for (i = 0; i < set->num_symbols; i++) {
+		if ((length = set->lengths[i]))
+			set->symbols[set->pos[length]++] = i;
+	}
+	
+	/* reset the pos pointer */
+	for (i = 1; i < set->bits; i++) set->pos[i] -= set->count[i];
+}
+
+static void init_code_tables(struct huffman_set *set)
+{
+	cramfs_memset(set->lengths, 0, set->num_symbols);		
+	cramfs_memset(set->count, 0, set->bits);
+	cramfs_memset(set->first, 0, set->bits);
+}
+
+/* read in the huffman codes for dynamic decoding (section 3.2.7) */
+static void decompress_dynamic(struct bitstream *stream, unsigned char *dest)
+{
+	/* I tried my best to minimize the memory footprint here, while still
+	 * keeping up performance. I really dislike the _lengths[] tables, but
+	 * I see no way of eliminating them without a sizable performance
+	 * impact. The first struct table keeps track of stats on each bit
+	 * length. The _length table keeps a record of the bit length of each
+	 * symbol. The _symbols table is for looking up symbols by the huffman
+	 * code (the pos element points to the first place in the symbol table
+	 * where that bit length occurs). I also hate the initization of these
+	 * structs, if someone knows how to compact these, lemme know. */
+	
+	struct huffman_set *codes = &(stream->codes);
+	struct huffman_set *lengths = &(stream->lengths);
+	struct huffman_set *distance = &(stream->distance);
+	
+	int hlit = pull_bits(stream, 5) + 257;
+	int hdist = pull_bits(stream, 5) + 1;
+	int hclen = pull_bits(stream, 4) + 4;
+	int length, curr_code, symbol, i, last_code;
+	
+	last_code = 0;
+	
+	init_code_tables(codes);
+	init_code_tables(lengths);
+	init_code_tables(distance);
+	
+	/* fill in the count of each bit length' as well as the lengths 
+	 * table */
+	for (i = 0; i < hclen; i++) {
+		length = pull_bits(stream, 3);
+		codes->lengths[huffman_order[i]] = length; 
+		if (length) codes->count[length]++;
+		
+	}
+	fill_code_tables(codes);
+	
+	/* Do the same for the length codes, being carefull of wrap through
+	 * to the distance table */
+	curr_code = 0;
+	while (curr_code < hlit) {
+		if ((symbol = read_symbol(stream, codes)) < 0) return;
+		if (symbol == 0) {
+			curr_code++;
+			last_code = 0;
+		} else if (symbol < 16) { /* Literal length */
+			lengths->lengths[curr_code] =  last_code = symbol;
+			lengths->count[symbol]++;
+			curr_code++;
+		} else if (symbol == 16) { /* repeat the last symbol 3 - 6
+					    * times */
+			length = 3 + pull_bits(stream, 2);
+			for (;length; length--, curr_code++)
+				if (curr_code < hlit) {
+					lengths->lengths[curr_code] = 
+						last_code;
+					lengths->count[last_code]++;
+				} else { /* wrap to the distance table */
+					distance->lengths[curr_code - hlit] =
+						last_code;
+					distance->count[last_code]++;
+				}
+		} else if (symbol == 17) { /* repeat a bit length 0 */
+			curr_code += 3 + pull_bits(stream, 3);
+			last_code = 0;
+		} else { /* same, but more times */
+			curr_code += 11 + pull_bits(stream, 7);
+			last_code = 0;
+		}
+	}
+	fill_code_tables(lengths);
+
+	/* Fill the distance table, don't need to worry about wrapthrough
+	 * here */
+	curr_code -= hlit;
+	while (curr_code < hdist) {
+		if ((symbol = read_symbol(stream, codes)) < 0) return;
+		if (symbol == 0) {
+			curr_code++;
+			last_code = 0;
+		} else if (symbol < 16) {
+			distance->lengths[curr_code] = last_code = symbol;
+			distance->count[symbol]++;
+			curr_code++;
+		} else if (symbol == 16) {
+			length = 3 + pull_bits(stream, 2);
+			for (;length; length--, curr_code++) {
+				distance->lengths[curr_code] =
+					last_code;
+				distance->count[last_code]++;
+			}
+		} else if (symbol == 17) {
+			curr_code += 3 + pull_bits(stream, 3);
+			last_code = 0;
+		} else {
+			curr_code += 11 + pull_bits(stream, 7);
+			last_code = 0;
+		}
+	}
+	fill_code_tables(distance);
+
+	decompress_huffman(stream, dest);
+}
+
+/* fill in the length and distance huffman codes for fixed encoding 
+ * (section 3.2.6) */
+static void decompress_fixed(struct bitstream *stream, unsigned char *dest)
+{
+	/* let gcc fill in the initial values */
+	struct huffman_set *lengths = &(stream->lengths);
+	struct huffman_set *distance = &(stream->lengths);
+	
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->count, 0, 16);
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->first, 0, 16);
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->lengths, 8, 144);
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->lengths + 144, 9, 112);
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->lengths + 256, 7, 24);
+	cramfs_memset(lengths->lengths + 280, 8, 8);
+	lengths->count[7] = 24;
+	lengths->count[8] = 152;
+	lengths->count[9] = 112;
+
+	cramfs_memset(distance->count, 0, 16);
+	cramfs_memset(distance->first, 0, 16);
+	cramfs_memset(distance->lengths, 5, 32);
+	distance->count[5] = 32;
+	
+	fill_code_tables(lengths);
+	fill_code_tables(distance);
+	
+	decompress_huffman(stream, dest);
+}
+
+/* returns the number of bytes decoded, < 0 if there was an error. Note that
+ * this function assumes that the block starts on a byte boundry
+ * (non-compliant, but I don't see where this would happen). section 3.2.3 */
+long decompress_block(unsigned char *dest, unsigned char *source,
+		      void *(*inflate_memcpy)(void *, void *, size))
+{
+	int bfinal, btype;
+	struct bitstream stream;
+	
+	init_stream(&stream, source, inflate_memcpy);
+	do {
+		bfinal = pull_bit(&stream);
+		btype = pull_bits(&stream, 2);
+		if (btype == NO_COMP) decompress_none(&stream, dest);
+		else if (btype == DYNAMIC_COMP) 
+			decompress_dynamic(&stream, dest);
+		else if (btype == FIXED_COMP) decompress_fixed(&stream, dest);
+		else stream.error = COMP_UNKNOWN;
+	} while (!bfinal && !stream.error);
+	
+	return stream.error ? -stream.error : stream.decoded;
+}
+
Index: blob/src/zImage.c
diff -u /dev/null blob/src/zImage.c:1.1.2.3
--- /dev/null	Thu Jun  7 11:12:30 2001
+++ blob/src/zImage.c	Wed Jun  6 19:16:26 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ * Filename:      zimage.c
+ * Version:       $Id$
+ * Copyright:     Copyright (C) 2001, Russ Dill
+ * Author:        Russ Dill 
+ * Description:   Module to load kernel straight from flash
+ *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
+/*
+ *
+ * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+ * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+ * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
+ * (at your option) any later version.
+ *
+ * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+ * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+ * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+ * GNU General Public License for more details.
+ *
+ * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+ * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
+ * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
+ *
+ */
+
+#include "load_kernel.h"
+#include "util.h"
+
+#define ZIMAGE_MAGIC 0x016f2818
+
+static int zImage_check_magic(u32 *location)
+{		
+	return location[9] == ZIMAGE_MAGIC;
+}
+
+static u32 zImage_load_kernel(u32 *dest, u32 *src)
+{
+	unsigned long size;
+	size = src[11] - src[10];
+	MyMemCpy(dest, src, size >> 2);
+	return size;
+}
+
+struct kernel_loader zImage_load = {
+	check_magic: zImage_check_magic,
+	load_kernel: zImage_load_kernel,
+	name:	     "zImage"
+};
+	

--=-TUEsrVuGXSjf0acRxJZq--

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Subject: Re: suggestion
From: Russ Dill 
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On 07 Jun 2001 18:54:15 +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I've just finished testing my LART flash module (: If all goes well, I'll
> release it tomorrow sometime (I just have to sort out some problem with the
> partitioning and write a small upload utility so that people can upload
> blob/kernel/initrd to the corresponding partitions without worrying about
> erasing etc).
> 
> There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash is divided
> into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel: 0x00020000-0x00100000,
> ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash in
> Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with cool things
> like jffs2, etc.
> 
> So here's a suggestion. Let's allocate 0x00100000-0x00300000 for the initial
> ramdisk - that's 2MB which imho is more than enough. In fact, it's too much
> (; ) and leave that last 1MB for playing around with file systems and other
> cool things.
> 
> Of course, this means blob has to change which isn't a big deal if we only
> knew which version to use *hint hint*
> 
> 1.0.8pre2 doesn't work (at least not on our LART board), so if everyone
> agrees about the size change, I'll patch blob 1.0.7b and then you guys
> (Wookie, Eric) should just update the latest blob (whatever that is).
> 
> So what's the verdict?

just put your jffs2 where the ramdisk should be and mount it as root,
who cares if blob wastes a little time loadinig it as an initrd

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun  7 21:09:29 2001
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:59:44 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe ,
        Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: suggestion
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On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 06:54:15PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> I've just finished testing my LART flash module (: If all goes well, I'll
> release it tomorrow sometime (I just have to sort out some problem with the
> partitioning and write a small upload utility so that people can upload
> blob/kernel/initrd to the corresponding partitions without worrying about
> erasing etc).
> 
> There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash is divided
> into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel: 0x00020000-0x00100000,
> ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash in
> Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with cool things
> like jffs2, etc.
> 
> So here's a suggestion. Let's allocate 0x00100000-0x00300000 for the initial
> ramdisk - that's 2MB which imho is more than enough. In fact, it's too much
> (; ) and leave that last 1MB for playing around with file systems and other
> cool things.

I think it's even better not to change it at all and use the third
region for jffs2, ramdisk, or cramfs. Just consider it as a place to
store your root fs.

> Of course, this means blob has to change which isn't a big deal if we only
> knew which version to use *hint hint*

1.0.8-pre2 is the stable version, 2.0.2 is the version Wookey created
from my 2.0 branch. When I start working on blob again I want to use
Wookey's 2.0.2 and merge it with my own stuff.

> 1.0.8pre2 doesn't work (at least not on our LART board), so if everyone
> agrees about the size change, I'll patch blob 1.0.7b and then you guys
> (Wookie, Eric) should just update the latest blob (whatever that is).

OK.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun  7 21:39:32 2001
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From: Nicolas Pitre 
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Gad Hayisraeli wrote:

> > > There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash
> > is divided
> > > into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel:
> > 0x00020000-0x00100000,
> > > ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash in
> > > Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with
> > cool things
> > > like jffs2, etc.
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>
> if i want to repartition the flash , do i have to make changes both in the
> kernel code and in the blob as well ? or just the in the kernel ?

Probably both.


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  8 09:33:10 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: suggestion
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Hi Gad!

> > > There is however one problem I discovered. Currently the flash
> > is divided
> > > into 3 parts (blob: 0x00000000-0x00020000, kernel:
> > 0x00020000-0x00100000,
> > > ramdisk: 0x00100000-0x00400000) which is how I partitioned the flash =
in
> > > Linux as well, but this leaves _no_ space to play around with
> > cool things
> > > like jffs2, etc.
> > Please read the LART FAQ at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/faq.php3
>=20
> if i want to repartition the flash , do i have to make changes both in the
> kernel code and in the blob as well ? or just the in the kernel ?

Only the kernel, but it's kind of pointless if blob don't know where to find
things (i.e. the ramdisk/kernel)

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

I used to be an agnostic, but now I'm not so sure.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun  8 18:29:00 2001
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Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:19:12 -0500
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Has anyone ported or written a small footprint database or even a decent 
file manager for the Lart that runs on Linux?

Bari Ari


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On 08 Jun 2001 11:19:12 -0500, Bari Ari wrote:
> Has anyone ported or written a small footprint database or even a decent 
> file manager for the Lart that runs on Linux?
> 

anything that runs under x86 on linux should have no problems running
with the lart

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sun Jun 10 02:25:55 2001
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You could always try the TDB - 'Trivial Data Base'.  It is a part of the
latest samba code (in CVS).

Jason.

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Bari Ari wrote:

> Has anyone ported or written a small footprint database or even a decent
> file manager for the Lart that runs on Linux?
>
> Bari Ari
>
>
> --
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-- 
---
Jason Ball
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Email: jason.ball@ce.com.au

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Hi Bari!

> Has anyone ported or written a small footprint database or even a decent=
=20

Try sleepycat's db2 or db3 (www.sleepycat.com)

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

If you flaunt it, expect to have it trashed.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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1.now I need to add two file to blob-1.0.8-pre2. for example I want to add a C source file gunzip.c to blob-1.0.8-pre2/src directory. and a include file gunzip.h blob-1.0.8-pre2/include.
who can tell me how can I do. best step by step.
2. I want to use ANSC library ,and the library must be linked in blob.How can I do it. How can I change the makefile. best step by step.
thanks a lot.
tony
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tonyl wrote:
> 
> 1.now I need to add two file to blob-1.0.8-pre2. for example I want to add a C source file gunzip.c to blob-1.0.8-pre2/src directory. and a include file gunzip.h blob-1.0.8-pre2/include.
> who can tell me how can I do. best step by step.
> 2. I want to use ANSC library ,and the library must be linked in blob.How can I do it. How can I change the makefile. best step by step.
> thanks a lot.

its a boot loader, so you can't link libraries into it, and
gunzip/inflate links to libraries.

what do you want to gunzip? I have a inflate implementation for a boot
loader if you want it
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Hi!

Good news for all you LARTians out there (: I've just finished testing the
flash driver for LART which you can find on my home page
http://oasis.blio.net together with some other bits and pieces to get you
going.

Please note that this is a beta driver. There is still some things I want to
tweak before I send it of to David.

In the mean time you can play around with jffs2 (:

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Anybody who doesn't cut his speed at the sight of a police car is
probably parked.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 14 07:33:25 2001
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Date: 13 Jun 2001 23:26:28 MDT
From: kumar jay 
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hello

can any body help me to understand the memorymap of SA1100.
The problem is ,if look at memory map of SA1100,
32bit address is mentioned in it, for eg. it says 
the static memory area(bank0 to bank3)lies in the range 
0h0000 0000 to oh2000 0000. This I think is a 32bit address.
But the processor has only 26 address pins and moreover Ao and A1
cannot be used for static memory interfacing.
I would like to know properly about the above description.

Also, in the data-sheet it is mentioned that chip select signals
for different banks and byte select signals are used.
are these signals connected to the addressing bits ??
if so, how???

Looking forward to your replies..................




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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:15:39 -0700
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kumar jay wrote:
> 
> hello
> 
> can any body help me to understand the memorymap of SA1100.
> The problem is ,if look at memory map of SA1100,
> 32bit address is mentioned in it, for eg. it says
> the static memory area(bank0 to bank3)lies in the range
> 0h0000 0000 to oh2000 0000. This I think is a 32bit address.
> But the processor has only 26 address pins and moreover Ao and A1
> cannot be used for static memory interfacing.
> I would like to know properly about the above description.
> 
> Also, in the data-sheet it is mentioned that chip select signals
> for different banks and byte select signals are used.
> are these signals connected to the addressing bits ??
> if so, how???

the addresses start out at zero for each device/region (ie, the sa1100
does the address decoding for you), and the largest memory region can be
covered by 26 bits, so thats all the address lines you need.
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 15 09:49:23 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Subject: Re: Good news
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Hi Gad!

> i saw this line on your web site:
> "fcp -v jffs2.img /dev/mtd2"
> can i use the "fcp" tool on the assabet  too ?

yes, it should work on any MTD device(s). If it doesn't it's a bug and you
should bug me about it (:

> (if i define mtd partitions first, offcourse)
> and by the way, can you help in defining such partitions  (what do i have=
 to
> change and in which files, in order to get my jffs partition space)

Partitions is usually defined in the maps driver. In your case:

drivers/mtd/maps/sa1100-flash.c

Search for CONFIG_SA1100_ASSABET. I see there is already 3 partitions
defined. Don't know if you want to change them...

> how can i use only blob to get my jffs to boot, instead of using ramdisk =
to
> mount the jffs ?

just copy the jffs2 image to your jffs2 partition using fcp. You'll have to
rdev your kernel of course, so that it tries to boot of the the correct
device (judging from the current partition definitions for ASSABET, I'd say
/dev/mtdblock2). Of course, the necessary MTD modules would have to be built
into the kernel, not be compiled as modules (otherwise you need a initrd)

Before you boot tho, first check if everything is working, i.e. that you can
mount the jffs2 partition, etc.

> who is responsible to unzip the jffs image in order to use it ?

you - gunzip btw

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

The first time, it's a KLUDGE!
The second, a trick.
Later, it's a well-established technique!
		-- Mike Broido, Intermetrics

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 15 09:49:23 2001
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From: "Gad Hayisraeli" 
To: "Abraham vd Merwe" ,
        "Lart Mailinglist" 
Subject: RE: Good news
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:44:08 +0300
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i saw this line on your web site:
"fcp -v jffs2.img /dev/mtd2"
can i use the "fcp" tool on the assabet  too ?
(if i define mtd partitions first, offcourse)
and by the way, can you help in defining such partitions  (what do i have to
change and in which files, in order to get my jffs partition space)
how can i use only blob to get my jffs to boot, instead of using ramdisk to
mount the jffs ?
who is responsible to unzip the jffs image in order to use it ?

Gad

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl
> [mailto:owner-lart@lart.tudelft.nl]On Behalf Of Abraham vd Merwe
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:04 PM
> To: Lart Mailinglist
> Subject: Good news
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Good news for all you LARTians out there (: I've just finished testing the
> flash driver for LART which you can find on my home page
> http://oasis.blio.net together with some other bits and pieces to get you
> going.
>
> Please note that this is a beta driver. There is still some
> things I want to
> tweak before I send it of to David.
>
> In the mean time you can play around with jffs2 (:
>
> --
>
> Regards
>  Abraham
>
> Anybody who doesn't cut his speed at the sight of a police car is
> probably parked.
>
> __________________________________________________________
>  Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.
>
>  Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems
>
>   Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
>    Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
>    Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
>  Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
>   Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa
>
>



_________________________________________________________
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 15 18:22:46 2001
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From: Nicolas Pitre 
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Subject: Re: Good news
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On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi Gad!
>
> > i saw this line on your web site:
> > "fcp -v jffs2.img /dev/mtd2"
> > can i use the "fcp" tool on the assabet  too ?
>
> yes, it should work on any MTD device(s). If it doesn't it's a bug and you
> should bug me about it (:

What's the difference with, say:

	cp jffs2.img /dev/mtdblock2

?


Nicolas

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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Sat Jun 16 12:12:52 2001
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Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:58:19 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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Subject: blob-1.0.8-pre2 load kernel
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------BF0C3F6FA6FD03A36DE2EEBF
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here is the patch promised on arm-linux (patch blob to load kernel from
jffs2/cramfs)
--------------BF0C3F6FA6FD03A36DE2EEBF
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 name="blob-load_kernel.diff.bz2"
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Mon Jun 18 09:54:21 2001
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Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:37:54 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Nicolas Pitre 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: Good news
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Hi Nicolas!

> > > i saw this line on your web site:
> > > "fcp -v jffs2.img /dev/mtd2"
> > > can i use the "fcp" tool on the assabet  too ?
> >
> > yes, it should work on any MTD device(s). If it doesn't it's a bug and =
you
> > should bug me about it (:
>=20
> What's the difference with, say:
>=20
> 	cp jffs2.img /dev/mtdblock2

fcp takes care of the erasing as well. You can only do a cp if the blocks
have been erased before

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Your happiness is intertwined with your outlook on life.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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In-Reply-To: <20010615212224.O12987@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>; from J.A.K.Mouw@ITS.TUDelft.NL on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 21:22:24 +0200
Organization: 2d3D, Inc.
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Hi Erik!

Btw, are you using the standard 2.4.5 kernel or with which patches applied?

I just tried 2.4.5 with both the rmk5 and rmk5-np1 patches applied, but the
Menu system appears to be broken:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
Preparing scripts: functions, parsing.....scripts/Menuconfig: ./MCmenu12:
line 18: unexpected EOF while looking for matching "'
scripts/Menuconfig: ./MCmenu12: line 37: syntax error: unexpected end of fi=
le
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Is it safe to just use the rmk patches on LART?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Your mode of life will be changed to EBCDIC.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:57:28 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: latest jffs2 troubles
Message-ID: <20010618135728.J12246@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
References: <20010615164525.A6569@crystal.2d3d.co.za>  <20010615212224.O12987@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> <20010618133728.A2854@crystal.2d3d.co.za>
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On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 01:37:28PM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Btw, are you using the standard 2.4.5 kernel or with which patches applied?

I'm currently running with rmk patches only because I was working on
clock scaling together with Russell.

> I just tried 2.4.5 with both the rmk5 and rmk5-np1 patches applied, but the
> Menu system appears to be broken:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> Preparing scripts: functions, parsing.....scripts/Menuconfig: ./MCmenu12:
> line 18: unexpected EOF while looking for matching "'
> scripts/Menuconfig: ./MCmenu12: line 37: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

Running 'make mrproper' after patching usually resolves such problems,
though it can be a real problem as well. I didn't have a problem with
2.4.5-rmk5, so I think it is introduced in 2.4.5-rmk5-np1. Check the
Config.in files in Nico's patch and see if you can find any quoting
errors. Fix should be easy.

> Is it safe to just use the rmk patches on LART?

2.4.5-rmk5 had some problems which are (should be) fixed in 2.4.5-rmk6.
I expect Nico will release 2.4.5-rmk6-np1 Real Soon Now [tm].


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:

> Hi Nicolas!
>
> > > > i saw this line on your web site:
> > > > "fcp -v jffs2.img /dev/mtd2"
> > > > can i use the "fcp" tool on the assabet  too ?
> > >
> > > yes, it should work on any MTD device(s). If it doesn't it's a bug and you
> > > should bug me about it (:
> >
> > What's the difference with, say:
> >
> > 	cp jffs2.img /dev/mtdblock2
>
> fcp takes care of the erasing as well. You can only do a cp if the blocks
> have been erased before

This is the case only for the /dev/mtd* devices.  The /dev/mtdblock* devices
are
implementing a real block interface to the flash chip allowing you to put
any kind of block based filesystem on it, ext2 for example.  The erasing as
well as read/modify/write of flash blocks is handled just as if it was a
hard drive.  Therefore you don't need any special tool to write a flash
image -- only a 'cp jffs2.img /dev/mtdblock2'.


Nicolas

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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:21:02 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: 2.4.5-rmk5-np1 kernel troubles
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Hi!

could somebody please help. I can't get the 2.4.5 kernel with rmk5 and np1
patches to boot on my LART. I just get:

------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
blob> boot

Starting kernel ...

Uncompressing Linux................................... done, booting the
kernel.
------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------

I am using ttySA0 as console and have the new SA1100 serial drivers enabled,
etc. etc.

I'm including my kernel config. Any ideas? If somebody have a working
2.4.5-rmk5-np1 I'll also appreciate it

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

You lived with a man who wore white belts?  Laura, I'm disappointed in you.
		-- Remington Steele

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:41:07 +0200
From: Erik Mouw 
To: Abraham vd Merwe 
Cc: LART list 
Subject: Re: 2.4.5-rmk5-np1 kernel troubles
Message-ID: <20010619134107.F26695@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl>
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On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:21:02AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> could somebody please help. I can't get the 2.4.5 kernel with rmk5 and np1
> patches to boot on my LART. I just get:
> 
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> blob> boot
> 
> Starting kernel ...
> 
> Uncompressing Linux................................... done, booting the
> kernel.
> ------------< snip <------< snip <------< snip <------------
> 
> I am using ttySA0 as console and have the new SA1100 serial drivers enabled,
> etc. etc.
> 
> I'm including my kernel config. Any ideas? If somebody have a working
> 2.4.5-rmk5-np1 I'll also appreciate it

I didn't try 2.4.5-rmk5-np1, but I know that 2.4.5-rmk5 had some bugs
in the serial driver which are fixed in 2.4.5-rmk6. I just succesfully
booted 2.4.5-rmk6-np1 on a LART with the attached config file.



Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/

--IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=config

CONFIG_ARM=y
CONFIG_UID16=y
CONFIG_RWSEM_GENERIC_SPINLOCK=y
CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL=y
CONFIG_MODULES=y
CONFIG_KMOD=y
CONFIG_ARCH_SA1100=y
CONFIG_SA1100_LART=y
CONFIG_SA1100_USB=m
CONFIG_SA1100_USB_NETLINK=m
CONFIG_SA1100_USB_CHAR=m
CONFIG_CPU_32=y
CONFIG_CPU_32v4=y
CONFIG_CPU_SA1100=y
CONFIG_DISCONTIGMEM=y
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=y
CONFIG_NET=y
CONFIG_SYSVIPC=y
CONFIG_SYSCTL=y
CONFIG_FPE_NWFPE=y
CONFIG_KCORE_ELF=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_AOUT=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF=y
CONFIG_PM=y
CONFIG_APM=m
CONFIG_CMDLINE="console=ttySA0,9600"
CONFIG_LEDS=y
CONFIG_LEDS_CPU=y
CONFIG_ALIGNMENT_TRAP=y
CONFIG_MTD=m
CONFIG_MTD_DEBUG=y
CONFIG_MTD_DEBUG_VERBOSE=1
CONFIG_MTD_CHAR=m
CONFIG_MTD_BLOCK=m
CONFIG_MTD_CFI=m
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_ADV_OPTIONS=y
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_LART_BIT_SWAP=y
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_GEOMETRY=y
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_B4=y
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_I2=y
CONFIG_MTD_CFI_INTELEXT=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM_SIZE=4096
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD=y
CONFIG_PACKET=m
CONFIG_UNIX=y
CONFIG_INET=y
CONFIG_INET_ECN=y
CONFIG_SYN_COOKIES=y
CONFIG_NETDEVICES=y
CONFIG_DUMMY=m
CONFIG_NET_ETHERNET=y
CONFIG_NET_PCI=y
CONFIG_PPP=m
CONFIG_PPP_ASYNC=m
CONFIG_PPP_DEFLATE=m
CONFIG_PPP_BSDCOMP=m
CONFIG_SLIP=m
CONFIG_SLIP_COMPRESSED=y
CONFIG_IRDA=m
CONFIG_IRLAN=m
CONFIG_IRNET=m
CONFIG_IRCOMM=m
CONFIG_IRDA_OPTIONS=y
CONFIG_IRDA_CACHE_LAST_LSAP=y
CONFIG_IRDA_DEBUG=y
CONFIG_SA1100_FIR=m
CONFIG_IDE=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDECD=m
CONFIG_SERIAL_SA1100=y
CONFIG_SERIAL_SA1100_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SA1100_DEFAULT_BAUDRATE=9600
CONFIG_SERIAL_CORE=y
CONFIG_SERIAL_CORE_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTYS=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTY_COUNT=256
CONFIG_UCB1200=m
CONFIG_TOUCHSCREEN_UCB1200=m
CONFIG_AUDIO_UCB1200=m
CONFIG_ADC_UCB1200=m
CONFIG_PROFILER=m
CONFIG_SA1100_RTC=m
CONFIG_SA1100_RTC=m
CONFIG_REISERFS_FS=m
CONFIG_JFFS_FS=m
CONFIG_JFFS_FS_VERBOSE=1
CONFIG_JFFS2_FS=m
CONFIG_JFFS2_FS_DEBUG=1
CONFIG_CRAMFS=m
CONFIG_TMPFS=y
CONFIG_RAMFS=m
CONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m
CONFIG_JOLIET=y
CONFIG_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_DEVPTS_FS=y
CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
CONFIG_UDF_FS=m
CONFIG_NFS_FS=m
CONFIG_NFS_V3=y
CONFIG_NFSD=m
CONFIG_NFSD_V3=y
CONFIG_SUNRPC=m
CONFIG_LOCKD=m
CONFIG_LOCKD_V4=y
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT="iso8859-1"
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_437=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_850=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_15=m
CONFIG_NLS_UTF8=m
CONFIG_SOUND=m
CONFIG_SOUND_SA1100_SSP=m
CONFIG_SOUND_OSS=m
CONFIG_SOUND_TRACEINIT=y
CONFIG_DEBUG_ERRORS=y
CONFIG_DEBUG_USER=y
CONFIG_MAGIC_SYSRQ=y
CONFIG_DEBUG_LL=y

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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:34:04 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: LCD & LART
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Hi!

Where can I get an LCD screen for LART? Is there off-the-shelf LCD screens
for it or would I have to hack it a bit to get it working?

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

Violence is molding.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:10:19 -0700
From: Russ Dill 
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To: lart@lart.tudelft.nl
Subject: completed jffs2/cramfs blob patch
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------ECC0755B74C17BA394A7EF85
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ok, its done. included is support for loading the kernel from jffs2,
cramfs, and smarter zImage loading, and if you download in the next 20
minutes, you'll get a patch to turn on the I-cache, free! 

Of course, for this to be usefull, the partitioning on LART or (insert
your board here) will have to be changed around a little bit.

I currently suck at the autoconf stuff, so if someone wants to fix that
part of the patch for me, that would be great. Any other problems,
fixes, suggestions, just reply to this. The patch is against
blob-1.0.8-pre2
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 20 09:41:43 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: completed jffs2/cramfs blob patch
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Hi Russ!

> ok, its done. included is support for loading the kernel from jffs2,
> cramfs, and smarter zImage loading, and if you download in the next 20
> minutes, you'll get a patch to turn on the I-cache, free!=20

Excellent. As soon as I've got all the problems with booting from jffs2
sorted out, I'll redefine the partitions for LART so that there's only two
(boot, file system)

> I currently suck at the autoconf stuff, so if someone wants to fix that
> part of the patch for me, that would be great. Any other problems,
> fixes, suggestions, just reply to this. The patch is against
> blob-1.0.8-pre2

Have you tested this? blob-1.0.8-pre2 (without your patches of course)
doesn't work on my LART board.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

#Debian makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)
	-- HippieGuy on #Debian

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 20 09:52:23 2001
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From: Abraham vd Merwe 
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Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: cramfs/jffs2 bootloader code
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Hi Russ!

> Current issues (release early, release often)
>=20
> the cramfs module doesn't follow symlinks when looking for /linux (jffs2
> *does* follow symlinks though)
>=20
> future ideas:
>=20
> if we can load the kernel from a fs image, why not other things, like a
> config, with bootloader parameters (whether or not to load a ramdisk,
> etc) as well as append=3D parameters for the kernel.

Yes, esp the append=3D parameters is really needed

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

=2E.. relaxed in the manner of a man who has no need to put up a front of
any kind.
		-- John Ball, "Mark One: the Dummy"

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 20 19:29:54 2001
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On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:49:41AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> Yes, esp the append= parameters is really needed

Don't worry, I'm going to work on that as soon as I get the SA1110
board...


Erik

-- 
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of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:43:29 -0700
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Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> 
> Hi Russ!
> 
> > ok, its done. included is support for loading the kernel from jffs2,
> > cramfs, and smarter zImage loading, and if you download in the next 20
> > minutes, you'll get a patch to turn on the I-cache, free!
> 
> Excellent. As soon as I've got all the problems with booting from jffs2
> sorted out, I'll redefine the partitions for LART so that there's only two
> (boot, file system)
> 
> > I currently suck at the autoconf stuff, so if someone wants to fix that
> > part of the patch for me, that would be great. Any other problems,
> > fixes, suggestions, just reply to this. The patch is against
> > blob-1.0.8-pre2
> 
> Have you tested this? blob-1.0.8-pre2 (without your patches of course)
> doesn't work on my LART board.

hmm...I don't exactly have a lart board, but I have something close, and
I don't see why blob-1.0.8-pre2 wouldn't work on the LART, what problems
are you having? I run jffs2 built into the kernel off of 2.4.2-rmk2-np2
with the mtd cvs built into it, you might consider getting the mtd cvs
and putting that in your kernel
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 20 22:44:17 2001
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:41:25 -0500
From: Bari Ari 
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To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: H.263 Video
References: <3B2FB1AB.35FF17DD@asu.edu> <20010620093739.D24381@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <3B30E0C1.3243562C@asu.edu>
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The LART gallery has a pic of a LART decompressing a H.263 encoded video 
stream to what appears to be a 320 x 240 LCD. Anyone know what data rate 
and frame rate was used for the demo and/or how fast a data and frame 
rate the SA-1100 was able to handle? Anyone have any success at using 
the LART for H.263 encoding?

Bari


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Wed Jun 20 23:45:41 2001
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:43:26 +0200
To: Bari Ari 
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At 15:41 -0500 20-06-2001, Bari Ari wrote:
>The LART gallery has a pic of a LART decompressing a H.263 encoded 
>video stream to what appears to be a 320 x 240 LCD. Anyone know what 
>data rate

All test sequences we used were VBR; they range between 14 and 
30kbits per frame (for CIF sizes).

>  and frame rate

With Y-component only decoding (grayscale) we managed to get near 24fps.

>  was used for the demo and/or how fast a data and frame rate the 
>SA-1100 was able to handle?

The top we ever got was the abovementioned 24fps; RGB decoding 
(especially with dithering) typically ends up with half that.

Note that optimizing this is quite possible giving some effort; the 
original Telenor decoder was written with a CPU with more cache and 
thus badly trashes the 8k SA dcache. Reducing the number of passes 
per frame should up the performance. I never got around to doing that 
but am quite willing to help anyone who wants to.

>  Anyone have any success at using the LART for H.263 encoding?

Never tried, but memory locality on the encoder is even worse than 
the decoder, especially with motion vector search on.

JDB.
-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
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Reply-To: "Andrew Xiang" 
From: "Andrew Xiang" 
To: "Lart Mailinglist" 
References: <3B2FB1AB.35FF17DD@asu.edu> <20010620093739.D24381@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <3B30E0C1.3243562C@asu.edu> <3B310A75.4090702@onelabs.com> 
Subject: clock speed for 640x480x16bits video
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:22:02 -0400
Organization: XPHOTONICS Inc.
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anyone know the minimum speed for vga resolution at 16bits color?
for my QVGA sa1110 intel eval board at 16bits color, the minimum speed is 1
or 2, if set at 0(59mhz), I can see the refresh.
Anyone calculated the % of the bus the video takes at 200Mhz for full
VGA@16bits.


-Andrew

----- Original Message -----
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
To: "Bari Ari" 
Cc: "Lart Mailinglist" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: H.263 Video


> At 15:41 -0500 20-06-2001, Bari Ari wrote:
> >The LART gallery has a pic of a LART decompressing a H.263 encoded
> >video stream to what appears to be a 320 x 240 LCD. Anyone know what
> >data rate
>
> All test sequences we used were VBR; they range between 14 and
> 30kbits per frame (for CIF sizes).
>
> >  and frame rate
>
> With Y-component only decoding (grayscale) we managed to get near 24fps.
>
> >  was used for the demo and/or how fast a data and frame rate the
> >SA-1100 was able to handle?
>
> The top we ever got was the abovementioned 24fps; RGB decoding
> (especially with dithering) typically ends up with half that.
>
> Note that optimizing this is quite possible giving some effort; the
> original Telenor decoder was written with a CPU with more cache and
> thus badly trashes the 8k SA dcache. Reducing the number of passes
> per frame should up the performance. I never got around to doing that
> but am quite willing to help anyone who wants to.
>
> >  Anyone have any success at using the LART for H.263 encoding?
>
> Never tried, but memory locality on the encoder is even worse than
> the decoder, especially with motion vector search on.
>
> JDB.
> --
> If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
>                                                       -- Arthur Kasspe
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe lart" in
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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 21 00:36:59 2001
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:35:41 +0200
To: "Andrew Xiang" 
From: "J.D. Bakker" 
Subject: Re: clock speed for 640x480x16bits video
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At 18:22 -0400 20-06-2001, Andrew Xiang wrote:
>anyone know the minimum speed for vga resolution at 16bits color?
>for my QVGA sa1110 intel eval board at 16bits color, the minimum speed is 1
>or 2, if set at 0(59mhz), I can see the refresh.
>Anyone calculated the % of the bus the video takes at 200Mhz for full
>VGA@16bits.

-ENOTENOUGHDATA

There are lots of variables, including the DRAM type/setting, the 
horizontal/vertical sync range of your LCD/monitor, required 
horizontal/vertical blanking...

You do know of 
http://developer.intel.com/design/strong/applnots/278287.htm , right ?

JDB.
-- 
Riddoch's Myth of computing:
         Any computer problem is invariably the fault of the closest
         sysadmin.
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:51:09 +0200
From: Abraham vd Merwe 
To: Russ Dill 
Cc: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: Re: completed jffs2/cramfs blob patch
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Hi Russ!

> > Have you tested this? blob-1.0.8-pre2 (without your patches of course)
> > doesn't work on my LART board.
>=20
> hmm...I don't exactly have a lart board, but I have something close, and
> I don't see why blob-1.0.8-pre2 wouldn't work on the LART, what problems
> are you having? I run jffs2 built into the kernel off of 2.4.2-rmk2-np2
> with the mtd cvs built into it, you might consider getting the mtd cvs
> and putting that in your kernel

I've tried 1.0.8 a couple of weeks ago after i trashed blob while writing
the LART flash driver. It didn't even get past the kernel loading. Tried it
with a few different kernels / ramdisks - no luck. So I switched back to
1.0.7-something and it works perfectly.

--=20

Regards
 Abraham

A penny saved is a penny taxed.

__________________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - 2d3D, Inc.

 Device Driver Development, Outsourcing, Embedded Systems

  Cell: +27 82 565 4451         Snailmail:
   Tel: +27 21 761 7549            Block C, Antree Park
   Fax: +27 21 761 7648            Doncaster Road
 Email: abraham@2d3d.co.za         Kenilworth, 7700
  Http: http://www.2d3d.com        South Africa


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From owner-lart@thorgal.et.tudelft.nl  Thu Jun 21 13:42:04 2001
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:38:53 -0500
From: Bari Ari 
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To: Lart Mailinglist 
Subject: IDE hard drive Transfer Rates
References: <3B2FB1AB.35FF17DD@asu.edu> <20010620093739.D24381@crystal.2d3d.co.za> <3B30E0C1.3243562C@asu.edu> <3B310A75.4090702@onelabs.com> <3B31B2A9.F047A5C3@its.tudelft.nl>
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Does anyone have benchmarks or good estimates on how fast the transfer 
rates have been with an IDE hard drive on the LART with KSB?

Bari


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